Vitamins & Supplements

[Draz]

What vitamins and supplements do you take?
Where do you shop for all of your needs?
What do you recommend taking?




1) Multivitamin
No rocket science here, but it's surprising just how many guys still don't take a multi. The key to making 'em work is to make them part of your routine. Instead of stashing the bottle on a shelf, keep it by your toothbrush or coffeepot—something you hit every day without fail. Make sure your multi also contains two key nutrients: selenium (for its cancer protective effects) and zinc (which helps you make sperm). Also, check the capsule size and dosage. It's easier to take one pill rather than two or three.

2) Fish Oil
Fish is one of the best sources of omega-3 fatty acids, which are crucial for brain and heart health and act as a natural anti-infl ammatory—especially benefi cial if you have sports injuries or aching joints. Even if you manage to eat the two to three recommended servings of fi sh each week, Carlson still suggests popping one to three grams of fi sh oil daily, veering toward the higher side if fi sh isn't really your meat of choice. Also look for a brand that contains both EPA and DPA, the two key healthy fats in fish.

3) Probiotics
These are good bacteria—the same kind found in your intestine—that aid with overall gut health and enhance your immune system. You can get probiotics in your diet by eating yogurt, fermented and unfermented milk, miso, tempeh, and some juices and soy beverages. However, if you're not eating those foods regularly, take a probiotic supplement with at least 10 billion live bacteria from one or more of the Lactobacillus family. It's generally best to take one capsule before bed.

IF YOU'RE IN YOUR 30S, ADD THESE TO THE BASE PLAN:

1) Vitamin D:
Along with boosting bone health, vitamin D may help prevent diabetes, metabolic syndrome, multiple sclerosis, certain cancers, and other health conditions. Yet if you're not drinking milk or getting small doses of unprotected sun exposure (your skin makes D from sunlight), you could be D-deficient. Surveys have actually found that about 40 to 70 percent of children are already deficient, which is why Anding calls this the new epidemic. Recommended allowances call for 400 IU daily, although Anding says this may be too low. Find D in foods like fortified skim milk (98 IU in one cup), cooked salmon (360 IU in 3.5 ounces) and eggs (20 IU in one egg). If your diet's not up to par and you're inside most of the time, pop 1,000 IU daily, choosing a supplement that has D3, or cholecalciferol, which is more potent than D2, another form of the vitamin.

2) Glucosamine and Chondroitin:
These substances, which are found naturally in the body, could be a natural way to help with pain from sports injuries or aching joints, Carlson says. Take 1,500 milligrams daily; you should see improvements in six weeks. If not, they're probably not working for you.

IF YOU'RE IN YOUR 40S, ADD THESE (ALONG WITH THE BASE PLAN AND SUPPLEMENTS FOR THE 30S):

1) Coenzyme Q10:
This little gem provides energy for the heart and helps produce ATP, the major energy source for cells. It's also crucial if you're on cholesterol-lowering medications called statins. "Statins can significantly slow or reduce coenzyme Q10, which your heart needs," Bowden says. Even if you're not on statins, you could give your heart a healthy boost by taking 30 to 60 grams a day. Otherwise, if you're taking statins, the dose may be higher, perhaps 100 milligrams or more; talk with your physician, although Bowden warns that many aren't well-versed in nutrition.

2) Saw Palmetto:
If you're waking up to go to the bathroom 100 times a night, don't be alarmed. "Your prostate gland grows as you age and puts pressure on your bladder," Bowden says. To remedy that, take 160 milligrams of saw palmetto twice daily.

3) Alpha Lipoic Acid:
As you age, your body's ability to utilize glucose becomes impaired. But alpha lipoic acid can help regulate blood sugar, especially if you're prediabetic. It also aids in brain health, acts as a super-antioxidant by recycling vitamin C and E, and can be beneficial for the liver. Bowden recommends taking about 100 milligrams a day.

IF YOU'RE IN YOUR 50S, ADD THESE (ALONG WITH THE BASE PLAN AND SUPPLEMENTS FOR THE 30S AND 40S):

1) Acetyl l Carnitine, Phosphitadyl Serine, and GlyceroPhosphoCholine (GPC):
Although they're tongue twisters, these nutrients are vital to brain health, Bowden says. Take about 750 to 1000 mg of acetyl l carnitine, 150 to 300 mg of phosphitadyl serine, and 450 to 600 mg of GPC daily.

2) Selenium:
Selenium should be in your multivitamin. But to reach 200 micrograms daily, which Bowden recommends, you probably need to supplement, as most multivitamins usually contain only 50 or 100 micrograms.

3) Ginkgo Biloba:
This powerful antioxidant helps protect brain cells from damage. Take 240 to 360 milligrams a day, Bowden says.

4) B12:
As you age, decreasing dietary intake and absorption make it tough to get all of your B vitamins, including B12, B6, and folate, all of which are crucial for the metabolism of carbohydrate, protein, and fat. Of those, though, B12 may deserve the most attention. "Although most adults over 50 eat the major B12 source, animal protein, the body has a challenge releasing it from food," Anding says, adding that some studies suggest that up to 30 percent of adults over 50 have blood levels of B12 that are too low. Ask your doctor to check your B12; if you're low, you may need to supplement.
Source (http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/supplements/supplements-every-guy-needs)

Whey Protein -

OPTIMUM NUTRITION Gold Standard 100% Whey (24g of Whey Protein with Amino Acids for Muscle Recovery and Growth)

While hitting the gym for 3 months, gained 20lbs, cut a lot of fat using this. I took it once, 30-45 minutes after the workout. My gains were incredible when I did use this, I can't recommend anything else. I'm going to be using this, but before I purchase another bottle you can suggest what works best for you. I drank vanilla and banana in the GNC plastic bottle for so long. At one point I'd want to throw up at the scent of the protein. I strongly recommend chocolate, double chocolate at that to mask the smell and taste.

Fish Oil - Omega 3

I normally take 1 (1000Mg) fishoil capsule a day. I found this help recover memory, etc. I'm not too sure on the cons. I've heard it also helps counter many of the effects of being a smoker.

D3 - Vitamin D helps support teeth, bone and immune health.

I normally take 1 capsule of this a day.

Biotin - Biotin supports healthy luxurious hair, beautiful skin, and strong nails, in addition to energy production. A water-soluble B-complex vitamin, biotin is necessary for cell growth and the production and metabolism of fat into amino acids. Natrol Biotin provides 10,000 mcg to help ensure the daily need for this essential nutrient is met.

I take 1 (10,000mcg) a day.

Multivitamin - N/A

(Recommended by many for increased blood flow. If you work out, lift weights, etc)

L-Arginine - Is a nonessential amino acid that may play an important role in the treatment of heart disease due to its block arterial plaque buildup, blood clots, platelet clumping, and to increase blood flow through the coronary artery. L-arginine is commonly sold as a health supplement claiming to improve vascular health and treat erectile dysfunction in men. L-arginine, which is promoted as a human growth stimulant, has also been used in bodybuilding. In the 1800s, it was first isolated from animal horn.

I actually need to do some vitamins & supplements shopping, looking into VitaminShoppe or GNC. I'm missing multivitamins & whey protein, running low on Omega-3. Might also pick up from Casein protein to use before bed when I hit the gym. If anyone has had experience with any retailers, feel free to suggest.

[fiddy]

http://i65.tinypic.com/rr172f.jpg
pick your poison bruh :lol

[ROCSteady]

All you need is weed, liquor and the Horny Goat Weed Tablets from 7-11

[Draz]

Is horny goat weed a real thing? :lol

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

5000 D for a few winters before.

Sometimes, megadoses of C during cold season.

Now, nothing.


Try to make dark leafy greens, bone broths, fish, organ meats; vegetables such as yams, turnips, fats such as olive oil, avocado, staples of the diet.

[alenleomessi]

fiddy let me guess you are a 140lbs soaking wet and go to the gym 3 times a month?

[fiddy]

Is horny goat weed a real thing? :lol
Yes, i've tried it. Its mechanism of action is the same as viagra. However, if you find a 10% extract you have to take 500mgs to have the same effect as 50mg vigra.


fiddy let me guess you are a 140lbs soaking wet and go to the gym 3 times a month?

Not even close on both assumptions

[Brujesino]

Goddamn thats a shit load of supplements:oldlol:

I use
Mega Men Sport for Vitamin
Cardio Cuts pre workout
Cellucor whey protein

[Draz]

Yes, i've tried it. Its mechanism of action is the same as viagra. However, if you find a 10% extract you have to take 500mgs to have the same effect as 50mg vigra.



Not even close on both assumptions
:lol I think it's also in Redbull


Jesus Christ bro resize your pic lol

[bdreason]

I rotate my supplements. I also take a Probiotic daily.

Mon - Multi-vitamin
Tues - Omega 3-6-9 (fish, flax, borage)
Wed - Calcium
Thurs - Nothing
Fri - Multi-vitamin
Sat - Omega 3-6-9
Sun - Nothing

[Draz]

Shit, is it bad to take Omega 3 (1000mg) every day? :lol

[fiddy]

I rotate my supplements. I also take a Probiotic daily.

Mon - Multi-vitamin
Tues - Omega 3-6-9 (fish, flax, borage)
Wed - Calcium
Thurs - Nothing
Fri - Multi-vitamin
Sat - Omega 3-6-9
Sun - Nothing
why omega 6 and 9? they abundant in food

[fiddy]

Shit, is it bad to take Omega 3 (1000mg) every day? :lol
No, especially when smoking on that good.

[Draz]

No, especially when smoking on that good.
What else do you suggest to take with omega 3 when you smoke weed a lot?

I remember someone else (can't remember if it was you) mentioned some other supplement to rebuild the receptors and build memory. It wasn't omega 3

[fiddy]

What else do you suggest to take with omega 3 when you smoke weed a lot?

I remember someone else (can't remember if it was you) mentioned some other supplement to rebuild the receptors and build memory. It wasn't omega 3
american ginseng
check this one for references http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66037

[Draz]

american ginseng
check this one for references http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66037
Good read. You use any/all of those?

God dam dude. You're probably a walking heart attack with all of those vitamins you take lol

[fiddy]

Good read. You use any/all of those?

God dam dude. You're probably a walking heart attack with all of those vitamins you take lol
of those on that list ive tried/got in stock:
Huperzine A -didnt notice much
American Ginseng - definitely more mental clarity after popping one of those
Omega 3s - works as intended
Alpha GPC - one of my fav supps
ALCAR - one of the cheapest and proven supps out there, another def must try

[Draz]

of those on that list ive tried/got in stock:
Huperzine A -didnt notice much
American Ginseng - definitely more mental clarity after popping one of those
Omega 3s - works as intended
Alpha GPC - one of my fav supps
ALCAR - one of the cheapest and proven supps out there, another def must try

Mhm. How do you know which one is working. Are you taking them individually and for a length of how long?

I'll give them all a try. I can't even remember what I ate for dinner.

[fiddy]

Mhm. How do you know which one is working. Are you taking them individually and for a length of how long?

I'll give them all a try. I can't even remember what I ate for dinner.
The last two will help with memory. And yeah, i try them individually for couple of days.

[Levity]

What else do you suggest to take with omega 3 when you smoke weed a lot?

I remember someone else (can't remember if it was you) mentioned some other supplement to rebuild the receptors and build memory. It wasn't omega 3

haha fiddy recommended me some supplements in another thread one time for stoners to help cognitive function. i actually bought them, but ironically enough, usually forget to take it

EDIT: saw him just post about it. alpha gpc

[hateraid]

I'm allowed $150 wholesale a month of free supplements. I usually go with our Super Multi, Iso-100 protein, Amino Pro BCAA, CLA, and ZMA (Z-Force).

From what I purchase and add to my daily regimen I add:

Himalaya Livercare
As much as we address what goes into our body we tend to forget to cleanse our bodies. Livercare is an actual clinically proven liver support formula that is used as an international drug. It supports all functions of the liver including regeneration. Fact is if you cut off 1/5 off your liver it can grow back. The only organ to do so

Epic Nutrition Green Kingdom
Another thing we need to address is phytonutrients. There are large gaps in our nutritional profile that vegetables alone can't cover. Green Kingdom is sprouted grains and vegetables compact with nutrients. It has spirulina, morenga, kale, and other green type products

Enzyme Blends
Improve digestion. 10 pounds of fecal matter can build up of undigested food waste

[iamgine]

Anybody take these? Is it good?

https://jointhealthcare.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/animal_flex.jpg

Just ordered one. Supposedly for bodybuilders but I think it can be used for basketball as well.

[BigNBAfan]

http://img.ctrlv.in/img/16/02/17/56c3f30aaa7ea.jpg

[Draz]

The fck does that do?

[BigNBAfan]

The fck does that do?


it's trenevar and methylstenbolone

[Draz]

it's trenevar and methylstenbolone
The fck does that do?

[BigNBAfan]

The fck does that do?

builds you 20lbs of muscle in 6 weeks
converts to tren, 5x more anabolic than testosterone.

[Draz]

builds you 20lbs of muscle in 6 weeks
converts to tren, 5x more anabolic than testosterone.
What's the catch? Heart attack on the 8th week?

[BigNBAfan]

What's the catch? Heart attack on the 8th week?

Depends on how you dose it. Most common are temporary acne, decreased natural testosterone. When you stop the cycle you need to stop the estrogen or else you can grow man boobs so you need a inhibitor like nolva or clen. Do it right and there are no side effects. Problem is that it's addicting like actual steroids. Your ego goes through the roof and you make so much progress so fast you dont want to stop or maintain/decrease dosing...

Kind of where i was when it came to prohormones, but i'm now taking anabolics so i have a lot of left over prohormones.

[Draz]

Stopped reading at decreased natural testosterone

Na fam I need to stay strong not fit

[BigNBAfan]

Stopped reading at decreased natural testosterone

Na fam I need to stay strong not fit

You're not understanding, it converts to tren which is 5x more anabolic than testosterone. You don't get fit on this stuff, you get MASSIVE fast.

Just google image trenbolone before and after

[Draz]

You're not understanding, it converts to tren which is 5x more anabolic than testosterone. You don't get fit on this stuff, you get MASSIVE fast.

Just google image trenbolone before and after
This is a steroid? Df

[BigNBAfan]

This is a steroid? Df

yes i think in the states it's classified as a steroid.

[Draz]

yes i think in the states it's classified as a steroid.
How long have you been using it and what's your results?

[BigNBAfan]

How long have you been using it and what's your results?

Well i've done a few cycles on it, last one was about a year ago. If i recall correctly i gained 10-12lbs of muscle. You lose a lot of muscle weight when you stop. Strength stays, at least for me but weight drops. I think i was 17lbs on week 6.

Bench generally goes up 30-40%... but again it depends on what you're focus is.

[Draz]

Man. That sounds a little like cheating than it sounds like a boost. Will your balls shrink? Lose boners? Etc?

[highwhey]

Habla espa

[BigNBAfan]

Man. That sounds a little like cheating than it sounds like a boost. Will your balls shrink? Lose boners? Etc?

Natural testosterone production decreases so yes, it's all temporary. It's only cheating if it's a competition...

[ThePhantomCreep]

You're not understanding, it converts to tren which is 5x more anabolic than testosterone. You don't get fit on this stuff, you get MASSIVE fast.

Just google image trenbolone before and after

What are you running now?

Did this product actually shut you down the way AAS do?

[Draz]

Temporary he says..

Temporary

[BigNBAfan]

Temporary he says..

Temporary
:confusedshrug: Do it right and don't be cheap. People use anabolics and dont want to spend money on bloodwork, proper management of other hormones and so these otherwise useful tools get a bad rep.

Look up SARMS like Ligandrol (?) and ostarine MK#### or GW####

Legal in the states, no side effects, gain a few lbs of muscle/month

[sunsfan1357]

Why are people saying whey protein as a supplement? If anything it's food.

[Draz]

Man, I haven't done blood work in years. My biggest fears is drawing blood, reptiles, heights & awaiting to see what my dck looks like after anul sex with girls

[fiddy]

http://img.ctrlv.in/img/16/02/17/56c3f30aaa7ea.jpg
Do you need PCT with this one?

[alenleomessi]

from fish oil to magnatren.. thread went from 0 to 100 real quick.. call me crazy but ill take my big ass balls and decent physique over god-like physique with peanut balls.. not a fan of lebron hairline, puffy nipples and freddy krueger's skin either

[KyrieTheFuture]

I take Omega-3 pills
Arnold's Iron Mass Gainer
Combat Protein Blend

I like the proteins so far, I'll probably order Dyamtize 7 online next time.

[Draz]

from fish oil to magnatren.. thread went from 0 to 100 real quick.. call me crazy but ill take my big ass balls and decent physique over god-like physique with peanut balls.. not a fan of lebron hairline, puffy nipples and freddy krueger's skin either
:lol

[CavaliersFTW]

I take Omega-3 pills
Arnold's Iron Mass Gainer
Combat Protein Blend

I like the proteins so far, I'll probably order Dyamtize 7 online next time.
Why not just eat healthy?

[CavaliersFTW]

Men are to muscles what women are to anorexia.

Prone to doing ridiculous shit to their body to get "big". Just work out, period, if you work out 4 days a week you're going to look good. What's the point of trying to take a bunch of ridiculous supplements to look like the hulk? Sounds overboard :lol

[KyrieTheFuture]

Why not just eat healthy?
Because I need like 4,000 cals a day, and I'm both a picky eater and never hungry.

Not liking eggs makes it very hard.

Neither of those are really "supplements" though

[Draz]

Men are to muscles what women are to anorexia.

Prone to doing ridiculous shit to their body to get "big". Just work out, period, if you work out 4 days a week you're going to look good. What's the point of trying to take a bunch of ridiculous supplements to look like the hulk? Sounds overboard :lol
To me it gives a boost, speeds the process probably 5x or more.

I used to workout without any whey protein, didn't gain shit, stopped.

Started again for 3 months straight 3-5 times a week.

Took whey protein 30-45 minutes post-workout, gained 20lbs of muscle.

[CavaliersFTW]

Because I need like 4,000 cals a day, and I'm both a picky eater and never hungry.

Not liking eggs makes it very hard.

Neither of those are really "supplements" though
Ahh, I'm on roughly 4k intake during mountain bike season I know the struggle of trying to eat that much. And yeah, I eat a lot of eggs that time of year.

So those are just protein shakes/bars then?

[BigNBAfan]

Do you need PCT with this one?

Of course you do, it's a true oral anabolic.

[highwhey]

Ahh, I'm on roughly 4k intake during mountain bike season I know the struggle of trying to eat that much. And yeah, I eat a lot of eggs that time of year.

So those are just protein shakes/bars then?
Struggle? That's 4 chipotle burritos. Or 2 chipotle burritos with double meat and cheese sticks and some nuts for in between snacks. How is that a struggle?

[Draz]

I need like a 4k calorie diet. Is this possible? Also, is it proven that eggs increase cholesterol? I've been eating it a lot, I haven't been working out yet.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Ahh, I'm on roughly 4k intake during mountain bike season I know the struggle of trying to eat that much. And yeah, I eat a lot of eggs that time of year.

So those are just protein shakes/bars then?
Yea combat is a blend of 5 (I think) proteins and since I don't eat eggs, and don't eat a lot of beef normally, I get those proteins through that rather than food.

The Arnold I've only done for this month because I'm desperately trying to put weight on, it's got a lot of shit in it that I don't know much about, but I figured I'd try it out and I've put on 5 lbs since then so I like it. I doubt it will be a permanent staple.

Edit: Also, I can't eat cheese so those cals really struggle to get up there healthily.

Edit: Draz if you're working out a lot the Cholesterol is not something to worry about.

[highwhey]

I need like a 4k calorie diet. Is this possible? Also, is it proven that eggs increase cholesterol? I've been eating it a lot, I haven't been working out yet.
If you don't particularly care about your health, 4k calories is easy. Remember "iifym" = if it fits your macros.

[BigNBAfan]

I need like a 4k calorie diet. Is this possible? Also, is it proven that eggs increase cholesterol? I've been eating it a lot, I haven't been working out yet.

mass gainers

[CavaliersFTW]

To me it gives a boost, speeds the process probably 5x or more.

I used to workout without any whey protein, didn't gain shit, stopped.

Started again for 3 months straight 3-5 times a week.

Took whey protein 30-45 minutes post-workout, gained 20lbs of muscle.
Ah I gotcha, but like ...sorta how starving yourself or vomiting gives a boost to losing weight right? Quick fixes to altering anything in your body just seems risky, I'd assume both are equally bad for you and taxing on your health. I could be wrong, but it has always steered me clear of taking anything supplemental beyond whey protein shakes when available (just food).

My primary goal for working out has always been to be better at the two things I like doing - mountain biking and basketball. Looking fit is only ever a secondary perk to me, and immense strength gains aren't my objective. So my paranoia about adverse health effects keeps me clear of taking a bunch of stuff. Then again, my diet is shitty enough that it's probably at least as bad for me as if I took a bunch of stuff that's bad for me. When I need 4k calories a day for mountain biking I don't exactly discriminate. I'll eat like 5 eggs, 4 pieces of toast, load it up with melted cheese and that's a meal. Horrible for you.

[highwhey]

Yea combat is a blend of 5 (I think) proteins and since I don't eat eggs, and don't eat a lot of beef normally, I get those proteins through that rather than food.

The Arnold I've only done for this month because I'm desperately trying to put weight on, it's got a lot of shit in it that I don't know much about, but I figured I'd try it out and I've put on 5 lbs since then so I like it. I doubt it will be a permanent staple.
Power protein supplements will always be inferior in quality to that of eggs(one of the highest quality protein) and meat/poultry.

[ThePhantomCreep]

from fish oil to magnatren.. thread went from 0 to 100 real quick.. call me crazy but ill take my big ass balls and decent physique over god-like physique with peanut balls.. not a fan of lebron hairline, puffy nipples and freddy krueger's skin either

The pros to taking steroids are considerable though. With proper training and nutrition, one modest 12 week cycle can give you gains that would take years to achieve natty--and I'm only talking about the shit you retain after your cycle is finished.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't intrigued.

[fiddy]

I need like a 4k calorie diet. Is this possible? Also, is it proven that eggs increase cholesterol? I've been eating it a lot, I haven't been working out yet.
the cholesterol comes from the egg yolk, you are good as long as you eat as much as 3 egg yolks per day. You can eat 10 eggs per day, but you need to throw the egg yolk after the third egg

[BigNBAfan]

Like i've said before, the side effects of anabolics are minimal unless you abuse them. If you're doing things properly and doing the blood work to keep things at balance you wont experience gyno or acne. Problem with cycles is the mood change and wanting to maintain the climax and never come off, poor planning due to finance or whatever, or lack of knowledge.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Power protein supplements will always be inferior in quality to that of eggs(one of the highest quality protein) and meat/poultry.
I'm aware of this, but I gotta work around my diet.

[fiddy]

Like i've said before, the side effects of anabolics are minimal unless you abuse them. If you're doing things properly and doing the blood work to keep things at balance you wont experience gyno or acne. Problem with cycles is the mood change and wanting to maintain the climax and never come off, poor planning due to finance or whatever, or lack of knowledge.
Whats your PCT regime?

[CavaliersFTW]

Struggle? That's 4 chipotle burritos. Or 2 chipotle burritos with double meat and cheese sticks and some nuts for in between snacks. How is that a struggle?
Well I don't like chipotle personally.

I'll eat usually 4 mcchickens w/cheese no mayo, + 2 cheeseburgers from mcdonalds - that's a typical "lazy" meal for me.

Or an entire large papa johns cheese pizza.

Or 2 pieces of fish, 2 eggs, 4 pieces of toast.

Or 4 or 5 eggs with 4 pieces of toast. Or 2 pieces of toast with hashbrown.

I load up the eggs/hashbrowns with fresh peppers, onion, etc.

I eat cereal from mixing bowls. Sometimes twice a day.

Takes an entire mound of pancakes covering every square inch of a dinner plate to feel like I've got enough.

That All-Star special from Wafflehouse seems to be just the right amount of food for a meal when I'm eating that much (waffle, plus 2 eggs, 2 toast, loaded hashbrowns, and either bacon or sausage)

I don't know, to me meal time isn't even enjoyable when I have to eat that much food because I'm so hungry I just inhale the food. When I need 4k calories I mean I NEED it. I'm not forcing myself to eat that much I'm legit burning it off. I always look ridiculous when I go out to eat and have to order two entrees just to feel slightly full and it costs a lot of money. Thus, my go-to McDonalds items are dollar menu. My diet is atrocious. Gonna have to change that but it's expensive and time consuming trying to eat 4k calories "healthily" (a healthy 4k calories generally takes up more space and thus requires more time set aside eating than an unhealthy 4k calories).

[BigNBAfan]

Whats your PCT regime?

My current cycle i'm taking Tamoxifen
Week mg
1 20
2 20
3 10
4 10

But i'm not currently taking any magnatren but actual tren suspension 1 ampule of 50mg/day

I actually just bought some SARMS that i will be taking in addition to maintain some of my weight during PCT, never tried them before but for how cheap they are why not.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Well I don't like chipotle personally.

I'll eat usually 4 mcchickens w/cheese no mayo, + 2 cheeseburgers from mcdonalds - that's a typical "lazy" meal for me.

Or an entire large papa johns cheese pizza.

Or 2 pieces of fish, 2 eggs, 4 pieces of toast.

Or 4 or 5 eggs with 4 pieces of toast. Or 2 pieces of toast with hashbrown.

I load up the eggs/hashbrowns with fresh peppers, onion, etc.

I eat cereal from mixing bowls. Sometimes twice a day.

I don't know, to me meal time isn't even enjoyable when I have to eat that much food because I'm so hungry I just inhale the food. When I need 4k calories I mean I NEED it. I'm not forcing myself to eat that much I'm legit burning it off. I always look ridiculous when I go out to eat and have to order two entrees just to feel slightly full and it costs a lot of money. Thus, my go-to McDonalds items are dollar menu. My diet is atrocious. Gonna have to change that but it's expensive and time consuming trying to eat 4k calories "healthily" (a healthy 4k calories generally takes up more space and thus requires more time set aside eating than an unhealthy 4k calories).
Yea expenses was big for me too, plus with a night job the schedule is ****ed. I have an 8-5 with better pay now so hopefully I can get a normal routine going.

What are the chances that I hate eggs because my Mom likes them super ****ing dry so I've only had dry eggs in my youth? I haven't eaten an egg by itself since I was like 15 so maybe I should try again.

[fiddy]

My current cycle i'm taking Tamoxifen
Week mg
1 20
2 20
3 10
4 10

But i'm not currently taking any magnatren but actual tren suspension 1 ampule of 50mg/day

I actually just bought some SARMS that i will be taking in addition to maintain some of my weight during PCT, never tried them before but for how cheap they are why not.

posts your results/thoughts on SARMS. Ever tried pregnyl?

[CavaliersFTW]

Yea expenses was big for me too, plus with a night job the schedule is ****ed. I have an 8-5 with better pay now so hopefully I can get a normal routine going.

What are the chances that I hate eggs because my Mom likes them super ****ing dry so I've only had dry eggs in my youth? I haven't eaten an egg by itself since I was like 15 so maybe I should try again.
You're missing out hardcore on sunny side up or over easy.

The runny inside might look gross at first, but have some toast with it. It's delicious.

Order sunny side up or over easy eggs from a place that serves eggs sometime. That way you know they're prepared right. Nothing dry about them.

[Draz]

the cholesterol comes from the egg yolk, you are good as long as you eat as much as 3 egg yolks per day. You can eat 10 eggs per day, but you need to throw the egg yolk after the third egg
I could eat million eggs a day. Fcking love them. What's the best way to eat it?
Boiled, fried, porched?

Not a fan of boiled lol

[highwhey]

Well I don't like chipotle personally.

I'll eat usually 4 mcchickens w/cheese no mayo, + 2 cheeseburgers from mcdonalds - that's a typical "lazy" meal for me.

Or an entire large papa johns cheese pizza.

Or 2 pieces of fish, 2 eggs, 4 pieces of toast.

Or 4 or 5 eggs with 4 pieces of toast. Or 2 pieces of toast with hashbrown.

I load up the eggs/hashbrowns with fresh peppers, onion, etc.

I eat cereal from mixing bowls. Sometimes twice a day.

I don't know, to me meal time isn't even enjoyable when I have to eat that much food because I'm so hungry I just inhale the food. When I need 4k calories I mean I NEED it. I'm not forcing myself to eat that much I'm legit burning it off. I always look ridiculous when I go out to eat and have to order two entrees just to feel slightly full and it costs a lot of money. Thus, my go-to McDonalds items are dollar menu. My diet is atrocious. Gonna have to change that but it's expensive and time consuming trying to eat 4k calories "healthily" (a healthy 4k calories generally takes up more space and thus requires more time set aside eating than an unhealthy 4k calories).
I can definitely see it becoming an expensive hobby. How often are you on that bike to require that large of a caloric intake? You're making me want to pick up a new hobby so I can eat more.

You don't like nuts? They're very calorie dense. What about pastas? Spaghetti will give you a good push towards your daily intake. I'd suggest a steak but they're expensive. I remember when I was on a 2k calorie diet, I would fast for half a day so I'd essentially eat two big meals or 1 big meal for dinner. Always had some walnuts at hand.

There are various ways to get ground beef(and get a good fat to lean ratio) to taste good. If i was lazy, I'd just grabb some ground beef, season it, shape it into a burger and melt some cheese on it (no bun). A couple hundred calories per patty.

I have a good ground beef recipe I'll look up and share. It involves adding canned vegetables but it tastes great.

[alenleomessi]

The pros to taking steroids are considerable though. With proper training and nutrition, one modest 12 week cycle can give you gains that would take years to achieve natty--and I'm only talking about the shit you retain after your cycle is finished.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't intrigued.
im not at all

but if those fake gains make you happier or richer then go for it..

[fiddy]

I could eat million eggs a day. Fcking love them. What's the best way to eat it?
Boiled, fried, porched?

Not a fan of boiled lol
Me too lol. Boiled/poached>>>fried

[CavaliersFTW]

I can definitely see it becoming an expensive hobby. How often are you on that bike to require that large of a caloric intake? You're making me want to pick up a new hobby so I can eat more.

You don't like nuts? They're very calorie dense. What about pastas? Spaghetti will give you a good push towards your daily intake. I'd suggest a steak but they're expensive. I remember when I was on a 2k calorie diet, I would fast for half a day so I'd essentially eat two big meals or 1 big meal for dinner. Always had some walnuts at hand.

There are various ways to get ground beef(and get a good fat to lean ratio) to taste good. If i was lazy, I'd just grabb some ground beef, season it, shape it into a burger and melt some cheese on it (no bun). A couple hundred calories per patty.
That reminds me, I do, a common late night "snack" for me that time of year (or a breakfast) is 4 pieces of toast with peanut butter and waltnuts sprinkled on top.

Mountain biking just requires a lot of energy. It's only 2 days a week but it just destroys your bodies energy reserves. I don't necessarily eat that much by choice it's just that that's how hungry I am when it's mountain bike season I've done that livestrong.com thing to count how much my caloric intake was. It varies from 3600 to 4300 every day that time of the year. In the winter I eat more like 2800 to 3200 calories a day. Which is still more than many. I have a high metabolism, and I'm active year round with basketball even when I'm not mountain biking.

[BigNBAfan]

posts your results/thoughts on SARMS. Ever tried pregnyl?

no idea what that is

http://img.ctrlv.in/img/16/02/17/56c50283c9b27.jpg
^ current PCT

I dont want to give away my source for SARMS as 1. i've never used them and 2. they were ridiculously cheap.

[highwhey]

That reminds me, I do, a common late night "snack" for me that time of year (or a breakfast) is 4 pieces of toast with peanut butter and waltnuts sprinkled on top.

Mountain biking just requires a lot of energy. It's only 2 days a week but it just destroys your bodies energy reserves. I don't necessarily eat that much by choice it's just that that's how hungry I am when it's mountain bike season I've done that livestrong.com thing to count how much my caloric intake was. It varies from 3600 to 4300 every day that time of the year. In the winter I eat more like 2800 to 3200 calories a day. Which is still more than many. I have a high metabolism, and I'm active year round with basketball even when I'm not mountain biking.
That's pretty cool though, I've only gone a handful of times but we have pretty good trails out here in AZ. Do you make it an all day thing for the 2 days that you go?

[ThePhantomCreep]

im not at all

but if those fake gains make you happier or richer then go for it..

The gains are only fake if they go beyond your genetic limit. A few cycles aren't going to take you to that point.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Well I don't like chipotle personally.

Chipotle has my current favorite pre-workout meal.

Bowl
Steak
Chicken (double order, not "extra")
Brown rice
black beans
pico de gallo
corn salsa

800 calories, 77 grams of protein

[KyrieTheFuture]

Chipotle has my current favorite pre-workout meal.

Bowl
Steak
Chicken (double order, not "extra")
Brown rice
black beans
pico de gallo
corn salsa

800 calories, 77 grams of protein
How long do you wait to lift if that's a preworkout?

[Draz]

How much do you guys spend on calorie intake + anything gym related INCLUDING gym memberships?

I'm thinking -
Gym Membership - $150 Planet fitness (yearly)
5 Lbs of Optimum Whey Protein: $57.99 (was $106, on sale)
Walgreens Omega -3 Fish Oil 1000mg 400 capsules - $20

A 4000 calorie intake diet CLEAN would be expensive, probably like $300-500 a month

Dirty bulking probably around $150-300

Bananas - Carbs / Energy (pre-workout)
Milk (1g x every week 1/2)
Eggs
CytoSport™ Muscle Milk

[Draz]

If you don't particularly care about your health, 4k calories is easy. Remember "iifym" = if it fits your macros.
Considering I'm skinny, it really doesn't apply to me and wouldn't matter.. I'll more cheat days than most since I'm bulking rather than cutting. But.. I still DO want to avoid eating dirty.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/SmfMFF.png (https://imageshack.com/i/pnSmfMFFp)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/y4nFUE.png (https://imageshack.com/i/pny4nFUEp)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/w1sv64.png (https://imageshack.com/i/pmw1sv64p)

[Draz]

Don't forget to add lots of oatmeal, peanut butter & jelly, ice-cream, greek yogurt, whole wheat bread, nuts, beans, cottage cheese, potatos

[KyrieTheFuture]

Greek Yogurt with frozen fruit smoothie is a must have for me on training days

[ThePhantomCreep]

How long do you wait to lift if that's a preworkout?

45 minutes or so. I usually dick around on the message boards while I wait.

I'm a big believer in being absolutely satiated with food before training. For me personally, zero hunger = heavier lifts.

[Draz]

I used to also drink my Whey protein (still will) with milk (in the giant GNC bottle)

Going back to the gym and eating like this is going to make me shit like a mad man, God dam. I remember I had the craziest shits with all that dairy

[alenleomessi]

Considering I'm skinny, it really doesn't apply to me and wouldn't matter.. I'll more cheat days than most since I'm bulking rather than cutting. But.. I still DO want to avoid eating dirty.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/SmfMFF.png (https://imageshack.com/i/pnSmfMFFp)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/923/y4nFUE.png (https://imageshack.com/i/pny4nFUEp)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/w1sv64.png (https://imageshack.com/i/pmw1sv64p)
400g protein a day? :lol

dude dont waste that protein powder.. cut that in half.. 400 is totally unnecessary..

[fiddy]

2.5 grams x every kg of body mass is more than enough

[Draz]

Leave me alone, I want to shit every hour

[KyrieTheFuture]

45 minutes or so. I usually dick around on the message boards while I wait.

I'm a big believer in being absolutely satiated with food before training. For me personally, zero hunger = heavier lifts.
Oh alright I thought you meant like slam it down and pick up a bar. I'd vomit if I ate Chipotle before lifting. Personally I almost always lift on an empty stomach or a small meal earlier in the day. For whatever reason my lifts are weaker in the afternoon after I've eaten.

[Draz]

FCK working out on an empty stomach. I'll never do that. Always, always, have a banana before workout. Meet my carbs.

[CarlosBoozer]

I don't even take vitamins everyday... might start taking fish oil and multivitamin :D

[iamgine]

Anyone eat Chia Seeds? It's one of those "miracle food". I never believe in any of it but has anyone tried it and find it beneficial? They're very small and don't taste bad so it's easy to just eat a spoonful a day.

[Draz]

Anyone eat Chia Seeds? It's one of those "miracle food". I never believe in any of it but has anyone tried it and find it beneficial? They're very small and don't taste bad so it's easy to just eat a spoonful a day.
What does it do?

[CarlosBoozer]

I'm currently in an internship, working 8-5 (break 12-1pm)

Is multivitamin and fish oil recommended when working 8 hours a day? I don't want to be too hungry/ sh*tty during work :D

[Draz]

I'm currently in an internship, working 8-5 (break 12-1pm)

Is multivitamin and fish oil recommended when working 8 hours a day? I don't want to be too hungry/ sh*tty during work :D
Why wouldn't it be? These are essential to your daily requirements for your body.

[BigNBAfan]

~Week 2

Up 8lbs, feeling the pump - mostly from the test. I wont feel the tren until week 4 or so. Dosing Tren and Test Enanthate @ 500mg/week.

My PCT will include the SARMs + Nolva and others.

[CavaliersFTW]

~Week 2

Up 8lbs, feeling the pump - mostly from the test. I wont feel the tren until week 4 or so. Dosing Tren and Test Enanthate @ 500mg/week.

My PCT will include the SARMs + Nolva and others.
...you gained 8 lbs in 2 weeks? Or am I reading that wrong :lol

[BigNBAfan]

...you gained 8 lbs in 2 weeks? Or am I reading that wrong :lol

You read correctly, this is a bulking cycle. I expect a good 20-30% of that to be water weight.

[dkmwise]

You read correctly, this is a bulking cycle. I expect a good 20-30% of that to be water weight.

How low was your bf% when you stared this bulk?

[CavaliersFTW]

You read correctly, this is a bulking cycle. I expect a good 20-30% of that to be water weight.
8lbs in 2 weeks has got to be mostly just food and water not just 20 or 30% no? Muscle can't build that quickly from what I understood right? At my most active with strength training I gained 15lbs in like 6 months once and even then I'm not sure it was entirely muscle. I was only eating a lot and taking whey protein though, no steroids or supplements.

[Im Still Ballin]

You read correctly, this is a bulking cycle. I expect a good 20-30% of that to be water weight.
This is not how you bulk you retard

This is called getting fat

[Im Still Ballin]

Oh wait he's on gear

Doesn't really matter then

It is really hard to get fat on the sauce

Would take a retard to do so

[Im Still Ballin]

Throw HCG in your PCT too

[ISHGoat]

This is not how you bulk you retard

This is called getting fat

It's mostly just water and food et all in the digestive tract. Humans biologically cannot build that much "muscle" in that time. You'd be lucky to build 2 lbs of real muscle tissue in 2 weeks.

[Im Still Ballin]

Well no shit

A good "bulk" is 2 pounds of scale weight a month

He's on the magic potions though so it really doesn't matter

[BigNBAfan]

This is not a natural bulk - i've given that up quite some time ago. I don't do this for competition or anything, just to achieve my personal goals. I generally put on quite a few pounds quick as your body is generating test + injected. It falls of week 3-4 then the long tren starts where most people get their huge gains.

As soon as a start PCT i tend to lose quite a bit. I expect to put on 25lbs on this 8-12 week cycle after all said and done. But we'll see....

As far as my body fat goes it's not the best i'm near 14% but i do this for myself - no competitions. Feel free to ask questions - i don't encourage this but i will give advice to those who want it.

[Im Still Ballin]

How long do you go off

And how do you feel elevated test in general fairs for skin/youthfullness and overall energy

[BigNBAfan]

How long do you go off

And how do you feel elevated test in general fairs for skin/youthfullness and overall energy

Well it varies, i want to be close to 220lbs @ 10%BF at one point but work tends to get in the way. A lot of people don't realize that even with anabolics i spend close to 20 hours a week in the gym. I have the energy to crank out 4hr sessions and just go on a tear (pun intended) but i have difficulty sleeping so i have to get in bed early to try and fall asleep or my patients notice.

Test is great as are all anabolics in moderation - problem many including myself have is wanting to take it to the next level. As far as youthfullness goes you feel like a kid filled with adrenaline when pumping iron, that's the main reason people get so addicted to it.

[Im Still Ballin]

My plan has always been to get on some form of Test/anabolics to extend that physical prime deep into the 30's and 40's

Not sure when I'd start... Maybe late 20's/early 30's... Whenever levels start to drop naturally

[plowking]

Men are to muscles what women are to anorexia.

Prone to doing ridiculous shit to their body to get "big". Just work out, period, if you work out 4 days a week you're going to look good. What's the point of trying to take a bunch of ridiculous supplements to look like the hulk? Sounds overboard :lol

That is a terrible analogy.

I want to look fit, and be the strongest I can be. I go up and down in weight throughout the year to achieve that.

You can look fine working out 4 or 5 times a week, and you will with a decent diet. Though you need to get your macros at a really good level, and take some sort of supplements to get even further.

Looking like the hulk? This is like dudes saying "I don't want to lift heavy because I'll look too bulky"... :oldlol:
You know what the truth is? Guys cannot get anywhere near as bulky as they imagine without steroids, or without being in an extremely high body fat percentage range.
If you work out hard, and eat right, you cannot really look too bulky if you stay under 12% bf.

I've been training for 7 years now, and I don't look bulky or anything near the hulk. I've taken supplements over 6 of those 7 years, and for the majority lifted heavy. Still not looking bulky.

Not to mention, this is a healthy lifestyle. Anorexia isn't.

[plowking]

BigNBAfan, I'd love to hear your results, training, and diet while you are on tren and whatever else it is.

I've heard diet isn't really that big a deal when you are on it if it is close to decent anyway. Let us know how you go.

[ThePhantomCreep]

BigNBAfan, I'd love to hear your results, training, and diet while you are on tren and whatever else it is.

I've heard diet isn't really that big a deal when you are on it if it is close to decent anyway. Let us know how you go.

From what I've read, it is highly recommended you eat a shit ton of protein on gear. Protein synthesis (which aids in muscle repair) is super elevated.

[CavaliersFTW]

That is a terrible analogy.

I want to look fit, and be the strongest I can be. I go up and down in weight throughout the year to achieve that.

You can look fine working out 4 or 5 times a week, and you will with a decent diet. Though you need to get your macros at a really good level, and take some sort of supplements to get even further.

Looking like the hulk? This is like dudes saying "I don't want to lift heavy because I'll look too bulky"... :oldlol:
You know what the truth is? Guys cannot get anywhere near as bulky as they imagine without steroids, or without being in an extremely high body fat percentage range.
If you work out hard, and eat right, you cannot really look too bulky if you stay under 12% bf.

I've been training for 7 years now, and I don't look bulky or anything near the hulk. I've taken supplements over 6 of those 7 years, and for the majority lifted heavy. Still not looking bulky.

Not to mention, this is a healthy lifestyle. Anorexia isn't.
I don't think you understand what I said because you just unwittingly reinforced what I was saying.

Your gut reaction to what I said was "guys can't even look that bulky without supplements/steroids"... this attitude that working out alone is not good enough to get big is exactly what I perceive to be an issue with many men. You personally say you just want to be strong and fit, great. But that sort of contradicts another angle of your attitude I'm picking up on that despite all that working out you still feel you haven't gotten "big". I bet people who don't work out think you're huge. But you don't, that's a foot in the door of bigorexia if you're unsatisfied with your physique STILL after 6 or 7 years of working out. On the flip side if you are totally proud of yourself and think you look great, then I would say you're fine but you didn't mention that you mentioned that it's impossible to look big without extra help. My point is many of the 20 something year old guys I've talked to at the gym don't think they look fine at all they want to look BIG and its carrot in front of them that never seems to get reached because no matter how big they get they've always got to do more and try different things to get there. If it's a passion, and you can take pride in it and think you look fine every step along the way, okay. If it's a never ending treadmill of sacrifices, work, and supplements because you can't ever seem to look quite good enough - bigorexia.

There are probably as many guys with bigorexia as their are women with anorexia. No size is big enough for some men the way that no size is small enough for some women - and no strategy to get there is to extreme.

[plowking]

All well and good, but I've actually focused on getting leaner and more flexible recently. I am quite big, but I'd be quite big without gym as well. I'm broad shouldered and 6'3. I've always been told that.

And it is completely normal for a 18 or young 20 something year old to want to get bigger and stronger, and bigger, and bigger, etc. A lot of guys go through that. 0.1% have the dedication to go ahead with it. The others train for a while and realize where things stand.

I was completely oblivious when I was 17 and started working out. I thought I could look like Simeon Panda or Calum Van Moger after just 1 or 2 years of hard work. Then you realize even guys the size of Jeff Seid are on gear and what not, and they've been training forever, and yet I met the guy and I was bigger than him.

The point is, people get a better gauge of their own expectations in the gym once they've been in the gym for a long enough time, and get exposed to the culture a bit more.

[BigNBAfan]

I don't think you understand what I said because you just unwittingly reinforced what I was saying.

Your gut reaction to what I said was "guys can't even look that bulky without supplements/steroids"... this attitude that working out alone is not good enough to get big is exactly what I perceive to be an issue with many men. You personally say you just want to be strong and fit, great. But that sort of contradicts another angle of your attitude I'm picking up on that despite all that working out you still feel you haven't gotten "big". I bet people who don't work out think you're huge. But you don't, that's a foot in the door of bigorexia if you're unsatisfied with your physique STILL after 6 or 7 years of working out. On the flip side if you are totally proud of yourself and think you look great, then I would say you're fine but you didn't mention that you mentioned that it's impossible to look big without extra help. My point is many of the 20 something year old guys I've talked to at the gym don't think they look fine at all they want to look BIG and its carrot in front of them that never seems to get reached because no matter how big they get they've always got to do more and try different things to get there. If it's a passion, and you can take pride in it and think you look fine every step along the way, okay. If it's a never ending treadmill of sacrifices, work, and supplements because you can't ever seem to look quite good enough - bigorexia.

There are probably as many guys with bigorexia as their are women with anorexia. No size is big enough for some men the way that no size is small enough for some women - and no strategy to get there is to extreme.

Nice post - i'd say i fit into this category but i don't necessarily think it's a bad thing.

[Draz]

Picked this up today

http://i65.tinypic.com/2wg98is.jpg

I normally used to use the gnc most popular whey protein but I'm going to give this a try for $20. 18 servings, 1 scoop is 50g. Will mix with banana, peanut butter and ice-cream to boost taste and calories

[LBJ 23]

Picked this up today


I normally used to use the gnc most popular whey protein but I'm going to give this a try for $20. 18 servings, 1 scoop is 50g. Will mix with banana, peanut butter and ice-cream to boost taste and calories


Draz. Don't take this the wrong way but as long as you don't know how many calories you're consuming, what's your maintenance, what are approximately your daily macros.........all these supplements (personally wouldn't call whey supplement, it's food) are just small drops in the ocean.

[LBJ 23]

To make it clearer this picture tells it all....and you're starting at the wrong end of the pyramid, judging by all your posts regarding fitness you're pretty much new at this.

http://vonblancofitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/The-Pyramid-Of-Nutritional-importance.png

[Draz]

Oh I see. Will do.

[Smoke117]

http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-689d/k2-_9d329b51-877c-4aa4-b1ff-a6f3be0c0ed6.v1.jpg

I take these.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I love bullshit like this "SUPER ADVANCED" whey protein. It's just whey protein.

[hateraid]

I love bullshit like this "SUPER ADVANCED" whey protein. It's just whey protein.

Did you all of a sudden just become salty overnight? Everything nowadays seems to irritate you.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Did you all of a sudden just become salty overnight? Everything nowadays seems to irritate you.
Been sippin on too much haterade

[BigNBAfan]

http://img.ctrlv.in/img/16/03/04/56d8d39e1802f.pngImage hosted for free at CtrlV.in (http://ctrlv.in/721632)

[hateraid]

Been sippin on too much haterade

:lol
But honestly. You were always good to talk with when we'd talk about our kids and stuff. Then all of sudden just grumpy. But I guess I shouldn't be one to talk considering I get pretty ticked off lately too.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Picked this up today

http://i65.tinypic.com/2wg98is.jpg

I normally used to use the gnc most popular whey protein but I'm going to give this a try for $20. 18 servings, 1 scoop is 50g. Will mix with banana, peanut butter and ice-cream to boost taste and calories
Saw whey at your local wal-mart and picked it up with your moms money. :oldlol:

Gnc most popular. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Could you be any more of a dope? You've gotta be a gimmick account. "Draz" ... that overly flamboyant skinny naive kid who makes duck faces at the camera with his snap-backs and 3 facial hairs. This is the funnies gimmick of all time. :roll:

[ISHGoat]

To make it clearer this picture tells it all....and you're starting at the wrong end of the pyramid, judging by all your posts regarding fitness you're pretty much new at this.

http://vonblancofitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/The-Pyramid-Of-Nutritional-importance.png

And below calories should be a massive rectangle titled "lift heavy as ****"

[KyrieTheFuture]

:lol
But honestly. You were always good to talk with when we'd talk about our kids and stuff. Then all of sudden just grumpy. But I guess I shouldn't be one to talk considering I get pretty ticked off lately too.
The political threads are honestly getting to me

[alenleomessi]

Yo Bignbafan update us on your cycle

Honestly im more interested in how are your balls doing than what type of vitamins these dudes take

[dkmwise]

The political threads are honestly getting to me

I feel you there Kyrie. With the over-saturation of media and social media this election BS feels more stressful than ever.

[dkmwise]

:lol
But honestly. You were always good to talk with when we'd talk about our kids and stuff. Then all of sudden just grumpy. But I guess I shouldn't be one to talk considering I get pretty ticked off lately too.

hateraid and Kyrie, just curious, how many kids you got?

[KyrieTheFuture]

hateraid and Kyrie, just curious, how many kids you got?
I don't have kids so he may be confusing me with someone else, but I've definitely had conversations with him about his kids before.

Idk the politics thing that gets me, is it feels like now more than ever, there's absolutely no consideration given to other side. No one thinks the other side could maybe possibly have a good point somewhere in their arguments. Nope. My side is 100% infallible and the obvious choice, and you're a ****ing loon to think otherwise.

No one seems to realize that after the election these people will still exist, and no one seems to care that half of America is basically gonna be given the finger regardless of who wins. No one wants to help America anymore, just their own side of America. It's exhausting.

[dkmwise]

I don't have kids so he may be confusing me with someone else, but I've definitely had conversations with him about his kids before.

Idk the politics thing that gets me, is it feels like now more than ever, there's absolutely no consideration given to other side. No one thinks the other side could maybe possibly have a good point somewhere in their arguments. Nope. My side is 100% infallible and the obvious choice, and you're a ****ing loon to think otherwise.

No one seems to realize that after the election these people will still exist, and no one seems to care that half of America is basically gonna be given the finger regardless of who wins. No one wants to help America anymore, just their own side of America. It's exhausting.

:applause: :applause: :applause:


I was actually just talking with my family about this yesterday. With me and my immediate family we are kind of split with our political views, but we still respect each others views and know that we are all coming from a good place, just have different ideas. So why should we think that if some random person has different ideas then us, it means they have to be a piece of crap.

Also, I think because people get so entrenched in who they like as a candidate and fight everyone else about and defend the person so much, that then when bad shit about that candidate comes out, they are reluctant to admit it because they don't want to admit they've been wrong in fighting for this person all along. So they just blindly stay with who they've been backing no matter what comes out about them.

[Draz]

Yo Bignbafan update us on your cycle

Honestly im more interested in how are your balls doing than what type of vitamins these dudes take
:lol His balls looks like nipples now :lol

[BigNBAfan]

Starting to feel sides, having strong back pumps and i'm not getting much sleep at all. This is the worst part of longterm anabolics as i'm pretty much stuck to this now.

On the bright side i've cut the cardio completely, gym sessions are hardcore. I feel my muscles tearing.

~25% increase in chest, triceps and bicep exercises
Weight up to 18lbs

Not yet completely shutting off natural test as the sexual drive is still there but it is noticeably diminished.

I'm planning bloodwork on week 5 which is my halfway mark. That will essentially decide how i plan the latter half.

[hateraid]

hateraid and Kyrie, just curious, how many kids you got?

1 11 year old boy.

[hateraid]

I don't have kids so he may be confusing me with someone else, but I've definitely had conversations with him about his kids before.


My mistake. I alway took from your participation about parent that you were a father.

[masonanddixon]

Don't take supplements unless you want cancer or a liver transplant by 45

[masonanddixon]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-01/supplements-linked-to-at-least-6-australian-organ-transplants/7207472

This isn't protein powder (which is just as bad) but it gives a general idea of whats going down.

[hateraid]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-01/supplements-linked-to-at-least-6-australian-organ-transplants/7207472

This isn't protein powder (which is just as bad) but it gives a general idea of whats going down.

What I learned in the supplement industry is that people will do "research" that lends to there own beliefs. If you think supplements are bad then you will only research articles that prove they are bad.

The article is a great example of poor reporting. All it states is that it was linked to taking a certain supplement. Does it account for the people's lifestyles? Does or state if those individuals were taking more than the recommended dosage? If they were alcoholics? Does it indicate this is only a sample size? Millions of people take green tea supplements. So 12 have a related liver condition? Yet millions of people know alcohol is not good for themselves but drink regularly.

If people look at supplements as just that then there is no problem. People just have drawn out opinions without proper education. I've been in the supplement industry for 15 years now on all aspects. I constantly around people who use supplements. I've yet to see or hear of 1 person die due to supplements. Yet I hear thousands of testimonials of how it improved their lives.

[alenleomessi]

6 people in the past 5 years? Bruh would you stop having sex/jacking off if there was an article saying 6 people died from that in the past 5 years? **** outta here with that weak troll attempt

[KyrieTheFuture]

Who the **** has 24 cups of green tea extract a day?

[Draz]

Don't take supplements unless you want cancer or a liver transplant by 45
:cry:

[masonanddixon]

What I learned in the supplement industry is that people will do "research" that lends to there own beliefs. If you think supplements are bad then you will only research articles that prove they are bad.

The article is a great example of poor reporting. All it states is that it was linked to taking a certain supplement. Does it account for the people's lifestyles? Does or state if those individuals were taking more than the recommended dosage? If they were alcoholics? Does it indicate this is only a sample size? Millions of people take green tea supplements. So 12 have a related liver condition? Yet millions of people know alcohol is not good for themselves but drink regularly.

If people look at supplements as just that then there is no problem. People just have drawn out opinions without proper education. I've been in the supplement industry for 15 years now on all aspects. I constantly around people who use supplements. I've yet to see or hear of 1 person die due to supplements. Yet I hear thousands of testimonials of how it improved their lives.


Well I'm telling you this as a doctor who has seen this before myself. A lot of pro-supplement people will say ' Oh but it's natural!!! It has to be good for you!!!!' Yeah well so is to tobacco, cocaine, and venom, and they all can kill you too.

Supplements are dirty. Pure and simple. It's an unnatural source producing an unnatural state in the body. Like I said before, a lot of people who use supplements will develop cancer or organ failure by 45.

[masonanddixon]

6 people in the past 5 years? Bruh would you stop having sex/jacking off if there was an article saying 6 people died from that in the past 5 years? **** outta here with that weak troll attempt

lol I don't give a shit if you want to kill your body with supplements or not.

I'm just warning you they will damage your body.

[red1]

Eating healthy is not that hard TBH. Supplementing with protein doesn't hurt and adding fish oils and a multivitamin is all that is needed. If anything.

[dkmwise]

lol I don't give a shit if you want to kill your body with supplements or not.

I'm just warning you they will damage your body.

Are you saying this for all supplements or just certain products and certain brands or people who abuse them and take too much???

[dkmwise]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-01/supplements-linked-to-at-least-6-australian-organ-transplants/7207472

This isn't protein powder (which is just as bad) but it gives a general idea of whats going down.

The article is interesting and I think should be a warning to everyone to know what you are taking and do a little research into the company manufacturing it and stay away from any 'proprietary blends.' But I don't think it's a reason to never take any supplements.

In many cases supplements are doctor recommended and necessary, sometimes even life saving if taken properly.

[masonanddixon]

Are you saying this for all supplements or just certain products and certain brands or people who abuse them and take too much???

By supplements I am broadly referring to products used for strength/muscle gain.

I have no issue with people taking mineral supplements (e.g. calcium, magnesium, or fish oil).

[dkmwise]

By supplements I am broadly referring to products used for strength/muscle gain.

I have no issue with people taking mineral supplements (e.g. calcium, magnesium, or fish oil).

Ok, I gotcha. That makes more sense. Other than certain brands of protein powder and creatine I am pretty skeptical about strength/muscle gain products as well.

[masonanddixon]

Ok, I gotcha. That makes more sense. Other than certain brands of protein powder and creatine I am pretty skeptical about strength/muscle gain products as well.

I wouldn't touch ANY protein powder or creatine. Creatine has been linked to focal segmental glomerulosclerosis; and once you get that you're dead within a decade.

It's much better to just actual run, swim, and play sports and develop strength the correct way.

[dkmwise]

I wouldn't touch ANY protein powder or creatine. Creatine has been linked to focal segmental glomerulosclerosis; and once you get that you're dead within a decade.

It's much better to just actual run, swim, and play sports and develop strength the correct way.

Been consistently lifting and otherwise active, not looking for any quick fix or even major gains, just don't know how else I would fit enough protein into my day without a couple scoops of powder. And from what I've read on creatine it seems to be the most studied supplement ever, and i've never seen any studies show anything detrimental. But I appreciate the info about the issue you mentioned and will check that out, thanks

[masonanddixon]

Been consistently lifting and otherwise active, not looking for any quick fix or even major gains, just don't know how else I would fit enough protein into my day without a couple scoops of powder. And from what I've read on creatine it seems to be the most studied supplement ever, and i've never seen any studies show anything detrimental. But I appreciate the info about the issue you mentioned and will check that out, thanks

Fish and other animal meat is a good source of protein. People have been surviving on it for millions of years.

If you understand what creatinine is (muscle breakdown product) you'd understand why taking unacceptably large quantities of it will damage your body.

[dkmwise]

Fish and other animal meat is a good source of protein. People have been surviving on it for millions of years.

If you understand what creatinine is (muscle breakdown product) you'd understand why taking unacceptably large quantities of it will damage your body.

I get probably 75% of my daily protein from chicken, eggs, and greek yogurt, and then fish about once a week.

What would you consider unacceptably large quantities of creatine?

[hateraid]

I wouldn't touch ANY protein powder or creatine. Creatine has been linked to focal segmental glomerulosclerosis; and once you get that you're dead within a decade.

It's much better to just actual run, swim, and play sports and develop strength the correct way.

You are the perfect example of a person who has a preconceived notion and will only do research that supports your own beliefs. Making statements like this is like saying celery is linked to heart attacks.
And attacking protein powder? It's protein for goodness sakes. A food. Not some science experiment. Anything can be linked to anything if you're actually looking directly. Controlled substances like these are extensively tested and have to pass certain regulations. I know, because I actually WORKED in manufacturing facilities and not educating myself through inconclusive biased articles. Your claims are no more substantial than eating almonds is dangerous because it contains arsenic. If you're going to do "research" do your due diligence and research all aspects instead of research that only proves your POV

[masonanddixon]

You are the perfect example of a person who has a preconceived notion and will only do research that supports your own beliefs. Making statements like this is like saying celery is linked to heart attacks.
And attacking protein powder? It's protein for goodness sakes. A food. Not some science experiment. Anything can be linked to anything if you're actually looking directly. Controlled substances like these are extensively tested and have to pass certain regulations. I know, because I actually WORKED in manufacturing facilities and not educating myself through inconclusive biased articles. Your claims are no more substantial than eating almonds is dangerous because it contains arsenic. If you're going to do "research" do your due diligence and research all aspects instead of research that only proves your POV

lol I'm telling you this as an educated PHYSICIAN who sees patients with this shit.

Give me a good laugh though. Tell me about the glomerular filtration rate and molecular weights (in Daltons) of substances which get filtered through the podocytes. And while you're at it, tell me about the countercurrent multiplier of the renal papillae. Oh, and then tell me what gets released in rhabdomyolysis (hint: it's a shitload of creatine) which is not uncommon in strength building regimes, and its potential effects upon the kidney.

There's too much shit that people like you have literally no clue about with how these substances work at the molecular level.

There's no randomised controlled trials on the proven benefits of creatine use; therefore, anything you say is illogical. Obviously, you're entire livelihood banks on poor suckers taking these products, so you will go at all lengths to discredit anyone who actually understands how it all works.

[masonanddixon]

I get probably 75% of my daily protein from chicken, eggs, and greek yogurt, and then fish about once a week.

What would you consider unacceptably large quantities of creatine?

The amounts in a creatine supplement jar.

If you're eating chicken, eggs, fish, and yogurt you're in good stead. I wouldn't change anything that you're currently doing.

[hateraid]

lol I'm telling you this as an educated PHYSICIAN who sees patients with this shit.

Give me a good laugh though. Tell me about the glomerular filtration rate and molecular weights (in Daltons) of substances which get filtered through the podocytes. And while you're at it, tell me about the countercurrent multiplier of the renal papillae. Oh, and then tell me what gets released in rhabdomyolysis (hint: it's a shitload of creatine) which is not uncommon in strength building regimes, and its potential effects upon the kidney.

There's too much shit that people like you have literally no clue about with how these substances work at the molecular level.

There's no randomised controlled trials on the proven benefits of creatine use; therefore, anything you say is illogical. Obviously, you're entire livelihood banks on poor suckers taking these products, so you will go at all lengths to discredit anyone who actually understands how it all works.

Right, so you're telling me that you've personally seen and worked on these type of cases? That's why you reference an inconclusive article that relates a sample size case and sums up a whole industry.

Being a physician does not make you more qualified in this subject than I am to tell people people how to heal themselves. Further more your " research" on creatine is based on ancient science from dosages greater than the recommended intake. You're citing things from when creatine was vastly misunderstood. Since then creatine has gone through many clinical trials proving it's effect and safety. I'm not trying to sell it. But if somebody is wanting to use it they should ask the advice of someone who is qualified and paid to do so. People like you are no different and ignorant than the holistic doctors (which in fact do have MD status) telling their patients that western doctors (allegedly like you) are poisoning you.

If you don't believe in this industry than fine, I can respect that, but spreading propaganda and scare tactics to build fear is a different thing especially in my experience have NEVER come across anyone who's done permanent damage to themselves unless have had lifestyles that have self inflicting consequences. Saying shit like taking supplements will definitely give you liver conditions by the age of 45 is irresponsible. Especially coming from an industry that is responsible for thousands of deaths due to malpractice.

[Draz]

Right, so you're telling me that you've personally seen and worked on these type of cases? That's why you reference an inconclusive article that relates a sample size case and sums up a whole industry.

Being a physician does not make you more qualified in this subject than I am to tell people people how to heal themselves. Further more your " research" on creatine is based on ancient science from dosages greater than the recommended intake. You're citing things from when creatine was vastly misunderstood. Since then creatine has gone through many clinical trials proving it's effect and safety. I'm not trying to sell it. But if somebody is wanting to use it they should ask the advice of someone who is qualified and paid to do so. People like you are no different and ignorant than the holistic doctors (which in fact do have MD status) telling their patients that western doctors (allegedly like you) are poisoning you.

If you don't believe in this industry than fine, I can respect that, but spreading propaganda and scare tactics to build fear is a different thing especially in my experience have NEVER come across anyone who's done permanent damage to themselves unless have had lifestyles that have self inflicting consequences. Saying shit like taking supplements will definitely give you liver conditions by the age of 45 is irresponsible. Especially coming from an industry that is responsible for thousands of deaths due to malpractice.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ddd0HBTakik00/giphy.gif

[masonanddixon]

Right, so you're telling me that you've personally seen and worked on these type of cases? That's why you reference an inconclusive article that relates a sample size case and sums up a whole industry.

Being a physician does not make you more qualified in this subject than I am to tell people people how to heal themselves. Further more your " research" on creatine is based on ancient science from dosages greater than the recommended intake. You're citing things from when creatine was vastly misunderstood. Since then creatine has gone through many clinical trials proving it's effect and safety. I'm not trying to sell it. But if somebody is wanting to use it they should ask the advice of someone who is qualified and paid to do so. People like you are no different and ignorant than the holistic doctors (which in fact do have MD status) telling their patients that western doctors (allegedly like you) are poisoning you.

If you don't believe in this industry than fine, I can respect that, but spreading propaganda and scare tactics to build fear is a different thing especially in my experience have NEVER come across anyone who's done permanent damage to themselves unless have had lifestyles that have self inflicting consequences. Saying shit like taking supplements will definitely give you liver conditions by the age of 45 is irresponsible. Especially coming from an industry that is responsible for thousands of deaths due to malpractice.


This has nothing to do with malpractice. Stay on topic.

I already explained to you on a physiological level the consequences of supplement usage.

Like I said, I don't really give a shit whether you choose to use it or not but you aren't qualified to discuss the topic. I'm simply letting people know that it's seriously dangerous to take these protein powders.

You're a salesman, as far as I am aware.

Who do you think people are going to take the advice of--a qualified, longstanding doctor, or a guy with no science background talking about peddling creatine?

[hateraid]

This has nothing to do with malpractice. Stay on topic.


Actually it's very relevant. There has yet to be conclusive evidence that sports supplements have killed anyone that has taken it responsibly. Maybe momentarily sick. Nobody has died taking supplements
On the other hand thousands die from prescription drugs prescribed by doctors. I'd say it's very on topic since you made the topic about promoting products that could potentially cause harm



I already explained to you on a physiological level the consequences of supplement usage.

Right. Based on extreme dosages that are beyond what is recommended for human consumptions


Like I said, I don't really give a shit whether you choose to use it or not but you aren't qualified to discuss the topic. I'm simply letting people know that it's seriously dangerous to take these protein powders.

You mean protein that is no different from yogurt? Something that is isolated from milk? The same protein that 80% of is actually bought by major food corporations and put in everyday confectionary products? Like baby formula, pancake mixes, pastas, pasta sauces, breads.....That the sports supplement industry only uses less than 5% of the worlds supply? You mean that dangerous stuff?


You're a salesman, as far as I am aware.
Actually a brand manager. I don't make any commission. I've also studied Food and Nutrition through U of Florida. I've worked within the parameters of the FDA to formulate products and have been involved in manufacturing.

Sales people are the guys I hire to promote products


Who do you think people are going to take the advice of--a qualified, longstanding doctor, or a guy with no science background talking about peddling creatine?

I'm sure you're a good doctor. Congrats for working hard and doing what you are doing now. But I've come across thousands of people who share your views on creatine and would consider your occupation a quack. In fact, most of those tree hugging, non-supplement taking, whole food eating hippies who consider themselves the epitome of health would trust you and listen to your advice much less than listen to me. As far as they're concerned doctors are a bunch of hoaxes swindling you into getting more sick so they can exploit people into spending more on western pharmaceuticals.

[masonanddixon]

Actually it's very relevant. There has yet to be conclusive evidence that sports supplements have killed anyone that has taken it responsibly. Maybe momentarily sick. Nobody has died taking supplements
On the other hand thousands die from prescription drugs prescribed by doctors. I'd say it's very on topic since you made the topic about promoting products that could potentially cause harm



Right. Based on extreme dosages that are beyond what is recommended for human consumptions




You mean protein that is no different from yogurt? Something that is isolated from milk? The same protein that 80% of is actually bought by major food corporations and put in everyday confectionary products? Like baby formula, pancake mixes, pastas, pasta sauces, breads.....That the sports supplement industry only uses less than 5% of the worlds supply? You mean that dangerous stuff?



Actually a brand manager. I don't make any commission. I've also studied Food and Nutrition through U of Florida. I've worked within the parameters of the FDA to formulate products and have been involved in manufacturing.

Sales people are the guys I hire to promote products



I'm sure you're a good doctor. Congrats for working hard and doing what you are doing now. But I've come across thousands of people who share your views on creatine and would consider your occupation a quack. In fact, most of those tree hugging, non-supplement taking, whole food eating hippies who consider themselves the epitome of health would trust you and listen to your advice much less than listen to me. As far as they're concerned doctors are a bunch of hoaxes swindling you into getting more sick so they can exploit people into spending more on western pharmaceuticals.


You mean incorrect dosages of prescription drugs. Not the actual prescription drugs themselves. A very critical distinction.

No, even normal dosages of protein powders will cause long term damage.


Correct. The same formulations that are linked to glomerulonephropathies and cancers of skeletal muscle.

That's their opinion. The point is you haven't shown anything to suggest that you have any concept of how creatine works in the body. Again, stating that creatine is a natural product does not bolster your argument. Using it in its unnatural state is what is causing the pathology.

[dkmwise]

[B]

No, even normal dosages of protein powders will cause long term damage.



I'm curious about the protein powder. My understanding is that whey protein is simply the byproduct from when you use milk to make cheese. So would consuming large amounts of milk cause the same damage, or are you saying the damage from a whey supplement comes the from the sweeteners and flavorings added to it?

[hateraid]

I'm curious about the protein powder. My understanding is that whey protein is simply the byproduct from when you use milk to make cheese. So would consuming large amounts of milk cause the same damage, or are you saying the damage from a whey supplement comes the from the sweeteners and flavorings added to it?

Bingo! Nothing more, nothing less
To further he's even related it to the whey protein that's largely consumed through the confectionary industry. Pretty much anything you eat is from a grocery store.
Further more whey protein used and consumed regularly in this guy's own industry. These are the same quacks that tell muscle wasting patients to drink ensure. Put glutamine in hospital IV drips. But if it's taken as a supplement than it is poison!

[hateraid]

You mean incorrect dosages of prescription drugs. Not the actual prescription drugs themselves. A very critical distinction.

Which is the exact same as the dosages you're accusing the supplement industry and supplements are doing. INCORRECT DOSAGES. Yet how many people have died instantaneously from drinking too much protein shake? Compare that to how many people have died taking too much prescription pills. How many people have died mistakenly taking glutamine instead of creatine compared to mixing up prescriptions?


No, even normal dosages of protein powders will cause long term damage.

Protein powders are food. Your body will not determine it differently from a steak, soybeans, or any other form of protein. Maybe if you are talking about the fillers and additives you'd be more accurate, but protein powder is food. Nothing more, nothing less

I also find it funny how doctors always suggest Ensure (even worse than protein powders) to muscle wasting patients


Correct. The same formulations that are linked to glomerulonephropathies and cancers of skeletal muscle.

Again, what are the dosages? Celery is linked to heart attacks. Should I stop eating celery?


That's their opinion. The point is you haven't shown anything to suggest that you have any concept of how creatine works in the body. Again, stating that creatine is a natural product does not bolster your argument. Using it in its unnatural state is what is causing the pathology.

What it is created in the body is not what's in question. It doesn't matter how I describe it, because your agenda is to disprove me. I can go into lengths about how it replenishes ATP, but I'm not going into a completely different argument because your just going to try and discredit my knowledge whether I'm right or wrong. I'm not talking chemistry. I'm referring to the dosages you're suggesting are far beyond human consumption and used for a prolonged period of time. Creatine is for intermittent use in minute dosages to replenish muscle energy when referring to supplements. In dosages no more than a full serving of fish or steak. Sure, if you took 3 times the amount EVERYDAY for the rest of your life you MAY likely have health issues, but no creatine supplement has, nor will suggest close to that amount, nor will it suggest use it for a prolonged period of time. So essentially what you present is in line with your own practice, but you contradict it when referring to supplements.

Like I said, find me a case where supplements have been proven to kill anybody and I'll find thousands of cases where PRESCRIBED AMOUNTS of prescription drugs have killed someone

[hateraid]

I'm curious about the protein powder. My understanding is that whey protein is simply the byproduct from when you use milk to make cheese. So would consuming large amounts of milk cause the same damage, or are you saying the damage from a whey supplement comes the from the sweeteners and flavorings added to it?

This post right here had more common sense and actual insight than what Dr. Mason is proposing. Even down to the relation to the sweeteners.

:applause:

[HenryGarfunkle]

This post right here had more common sense and actual insight than what Dr. Mason is proposing. Even down to the relation to the sweeteners.

:applause:
He's not a doctor. :facepalm

[hateraid]

He's not a doctor. :facepalm

Which makes it that much more impressive :applause:

[Draz]

Here's a follow up with the whey I purchased a few days ago. Used it twice.


http://store.bbcomcdn.com/images/store/prodimage/prod_prod140044/image_prod140044_original_X_450_white.jpg

So far, the taste is incredible. I've tried this from GNC for 3 months


http://www.gnc.com/graphics/product_images/pGNC1-3145315dt.jpg

Along with milk, and it helped me put on 25lbs and lean muscle. It was Vanilla, and after month 2 I would throw up at the SCENT alone of it. I couldn't stomach it anymore.

As for the body fortress, I switched it up and bought chocolate. The chocolate was just, amazing. Never again will I go vanilla. That's the first thing that got my attention, tasted like chocolate milk. I've gained 3 lbs so far in one week. Don't know if it's because of this, but I'll keep regular tabs. As for muscle, it's way too early to tell (4 days in, 2 being arm days)

If I don't see significant increase in both muscle and weight by week 4 day 12, I'll look for alternatives.

http://mystrengthguide.com/gomad-gallon-of-milk-a-day-how-to-gain-15-to-30lbs-in-30-days/

GOMAD sounds intense. I did a gallon per week and that was crazy. The side effects CAN lead to kidney stones. Anyone ever did this?

[Draz]

Been needing a good source of carbs pre-work out.

Good Carbs:

Vegetables: all of them. It is best to eat a variety of vegetables every day.
Whole fruits: apples, bananas, strawberries, etc.
Legumes: lentils, kidney beans, peas, etc.
Nuts: almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, macadamia nuts, peanuts, etc.
Seeds: chia seeds, pumpkin seeds.
Whole grains: choose grains that are truly whole, as in pure oats, quinoa, brown rice, etc.
Tubers: potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc.
People who are trying to restrict carbohydrates need to be careful with the whole grains, legumes, tubers and high-sugar fruit.

Bad Carbs:

Sugary drinks: Coca cola, Pepsi, Vitaminwater, etc. Sugary drinks are some of the unhealthiest things you can put into your body.
Fruit juices: unfortunately, fruit juices may have similar metabolic effects as sugar-sweetened beverages.
White bread: these are refined carbohydrates that are low in essential nutrients and bad for metabolic health. This applies to most commercially available breads.
Pastries, cookies and cakes: these tend to be very high in sugar and refined wheat.
Ice cream: most types of ice cream are very high in sugar, although there are exceptions.
Candies and chocolates: If you’re going to eat chocolate, choose quality dark chocolate.
French fries and potato chips: Whole potatoes are healthy, but french fries and potato chips are not.

Flex Staff

FLEX has compiled this list of seven great high-carb bites that bodybuilders--especially hardgainers--can use to enhance muscle recovery and pack on muscle mass. Keep in mind, these foods are best for bulking and aren't considered to be foundational carbohydrates for precontest bodybuilders or those trying to rip up.

1. BREAKFAST CEREAL

Benefit: Convenient high-calorie food
Breakfast cereals with at least two grams (g) of fiber per serving can be converted into good offseason bodybuilding foods. Fiber slows digestion, making cereal a good source of energy that can be eaten at any time. For the best results, double the serving size, mix in one rounded scoop of whey protein and enough milk to bring the carb content to about 60 g and the protein content to 30 g.

2. BAGELS

Benefit: Versatile
Bagels are a concentrated source of carbohydrates (a medium-sized bagel has 40-50 g). They also make offseason mass nutrition easy—no cooking or serious food-prep time needed. For added benefits, choose varieties with more whole grains, such as pumpernickel and rye.

3. BRAN MUFFINS

Benefit: A mass builder with fiber
You can determine a quality bran muffin by reading the label, but your best bet may be to make your own. Purchase any high-fiber cereal that has a muffin recipe on the side of the box. Substitute honey for sugar, add two or three scoops of whey protein to the mix, and you have a high-carb, protein-rich snack. Fiber in the cereal makes the end product low glycemic or "slow burning," which is ideal for bodybuilders who struggle to stay relatively lean while bulking up.

4. CREAM OF RICE CEREAL

Benefit: Extremely easy to digest
Cream of Rice is easily digested and makes an excellent offseason food. Two-thirds of a cup mixed with water yields 65 g of easy-to-digest carbs. After cooking, add a banana, a cup of cottage cheese and some Equal or a few pinches of cinnamon, and you have a well-rounded meal with 30 g of protein and 90 g of carbohydrates.

5. MASHED POTATOES

Benefit: Strong insulinogenic carb
When you're trying to grow, you need fast-acting carbs in your postworkout meal because they generate a greater insulin surge and are great for rapidly restoring glycogen levels. At 42 g of carbs per cup, you can eat two or three cups of mashed potatoes without feeling overly stuffed or bloated.

6. WHITE RICE WITH RAISINS

Benefit: Nonfilling high-glycemic carbs
Two cups of white rice mixed with a handful of raisins provide 115 g of carbohydrates—an ideal postworkout combo to help resynthesize muscle glycogen. As with mashed potatoes, you can use white rice with raisins as a side dish with meals. The combo can also be added to a meat-vegetable-nut stir-fry for a tasty meal that's perfect for muscle building.

7. PASTA

Benefit: Condensed source of carbs
For bumping up carb intake, pasta has always been a great choice. Four ounces (dry measure) yield 90 g of carbs that are easy to eat and won't fill you up, so you'll be ready to eat again within three hours. Adding meat and vegetables to pasta makes a complete meal that is high in carbohydrates, protein and calories.

[sd3035]

dat dere celltech

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/006/735/Muscletech_Cell-Tech_Hardcore_6.7lb.jpg

[Draz]

Creatine? I try to stay away from it. Our bodies have natural creatine, they whey I take does supplement it, I'm wondering if I should stay away from whey that supports it.

[fiddy]

Creatine? I try to stay away from it. Our bodies have natural creatine, they whey I take does supplement it, I'm wondering if I should stay away from whey that supports it.
Creatine just pumps your muscles full of water (n)

[hateraid]

Creatine? I try to stay away from it. Our bodies have natural creatine, they whey I take does supplement it, I'm wondering if I should stay away from whey that supports it.

Most whey products with creatine don't have a significant amount to make any sort of impact. And the amount that they do have is definitely usable. Post workout your ATP is so low the creatine will easily be converted. You're fine.

Celltech is so old school. There are way more advanced postworkouts on the market. If anything you'll get more benefits from the glycogen replenishment than the actual creatine.

[hateraid]

Creatine just pumps your muscles full of water (n)

That's just an avoidable side effect. It's main purpose is to replenish ATP. Not load water. Drink more water and you'll retain less. Take a good buffered creatine at a lower dosage and you'll retain less. The water bloating is a thing of the past and has been a non-issue with newer supplements

[Draz]

Creatine just pumps your muscles full of water (n)

I noticed. Because that year I worked out, I lost everything when I stopped.


Most whey products with creatine don't have a significant amount to make any sort of impact. And the amount that they do have is definitely usable. Post workout your ATP is so low the creatine will easily be converted. You're fine.

Celltech is so old school. There are way more advanced postworkouts on the market. If anything you'll get more benefits from the glycogen replenishment than the actual creatine.

Alright cool, so I figured.

Is SOY bad for consumption? There's a lot of controversy surrounding eating anything SOY. (The whey I have has SOY)

[fiddy]

That's just an avoidable side effect. It's main purpose is to replenish ATP. Not load water. Drink more water and you'll retain less. Take a good buffered creatine at a lower dosage and you'll retain less. The water bloating is a thing of the past and has been a non-issue with newer supplements
What about salt intake? Havent bothered with creatine in years (had no results from it).

[Draz]

Fck. http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/38641-protein-spiking-alleged-body-fortress-false-ad-class-action-lawsuit/

The Whey Protein I purchased had spiked protein. Stay the fck away from this shit. After I finish it I'm done with that company forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1eC1YaJIoQ

[BigNBAfan]

Fck. http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/38641-protein-spiking-alleged-body-fortress-false-ad-class-action-lawsuit/

The Whey Protein I purchased had spiked protein. Stay the fck away from this shit. After I finish it I'm done with that company forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1eC1YaJIoQ

Dude... myprotein.com

cheaper, better flavour, better quality

Even now it's like 70 bucks for 11lbs

[fiddy]

Dude... myprotein.com

cheaper, better flavour, better quality

Even now it's like 70 bucks for 11lbs
Tried their AAKG recently, pretty happy with it.

[BigNBAfan]

Tried their AAKG recently, pretty happy with it.
http://i.picresize.com/images/2016/03/09/nXWH4.jpg

I love this stuff

[Draz]

I'll look into it after this piece of shit bottle finishes. Disappointed though.. well.. not really since it was cheap. Then again, I'm a quality over quantity guy.

What makes that product better than the rest?

[BigNBAfan]

I'll look into it after this piece of shit bottle finishes. Disappointed though.. well.. not really since it was cheap. Then again, I'm a quality over quantity guy.

What makes that product better than the rest?

You're a quality over quantity guy but buy bodyfortress? Makes no sense and if that were true you'd know the following:

https://labdoor.com/rankings/protein

myprotein is top tier. I have no skin in the game, just a customer.

[Draz]

You're a quality over quantity guy but buy bodyfortress? Makes no sense and if that were true you'd know the following:

https://labdoor.com/rankings/protein

myprotein is top tier. I have no skin in the game, just a customer.
I just happened to be strolling down the isle at walmart and saw it.. "$17.95" on sale, blah blah blah, said, hey "60g of protein" why not lol. Those fcking *****

[Draz]

You're a quality over quantity guy but buy bodyfortress? Makes no sense and if that were true you'd know the following:

https://labdoor.com/rankings/protein

myprotein is top tier. I have no skin in the game, just a customer.

Used to use this

http://www.gnc.com/graphics/product_images/pGNC1-3145315dt.jpg

Is it better than that? I put on 25lbs with that shit, loved it

[BigNBAfan]

Used to use this

http://www.gnc.com/graphics/product_images/pGNC1-3145315dt.jpg

Is it better than that? I put on 25lbs with that shit, loved it

Ill be up 25lbs on my 10 week bulk in a week or two on myprotein. Just look at that site, it breaks down value, protein% etc. pretty clear which is the best. They did third party lab testing

[Draz]

Ill be up 25lbs on my 10 week bulk in a week or two on myprotein. Just look at that site, it breaks down value, protein% etc. pretty clear which is the best. They did third party lab testing
Alright hoe, you sold me

[fiddy]

http://i.picresize.com/images/2016/03/09/nXWH4.jpg

I love this stuff
You dont play around, i like it :applause: Any experience with adaptogens?

[BigNBAfan]

You dont play around, i like it :applause: Any experience with adaptogens?

Nope, care to tell me what they are?

[BigNBAfan]

Looks legit, whats a good flavor to get? I usually mix my protein with milk.

Right now I use cellucor, which is good, but myprotein has great reviews and price is unbeatable.

If you like Hershey's strawberry milk, my favorite's Strawberry Cream

[Draz]

If you like Hershey's strawberry milk, my favorite's Strawberry Cream
Are you sure we shouldn't go with chocolate? I love hersheys strawberry milk.. what's the percentage that it taste like it?

[LBJ 23]

Are you sure we shouldn't go with chocolate? I love hersheys strawberry milk.. what's the percentage that it taste like it?


If I remember right you said you need to eat around 5000-6000 k calories to see any gains? If so stop worrying about irrelevant stuff such as quoted above and supplements and all other unimportant shit. Make sure you consume around 170-200grams of protein per day, make sure you have some clean meals during the day(to satisfy your micronutrient, minerals, vitamins,..) like carbs with some fiber, vegetables, fruit,.... and then include some junk food, sweets, fatty foods into your diet to boost those calories up. That's the most important thing for you right now and not what kind of whey you're using or what kind of milk you're drinking.

And when I recommended a breakfast consisting of big chocolate and 1 liter of milk I wasn't joking...that would be a great start into your ''struggling to eat enough calories'' day.

[Draz]

If I remember right you said you need to eat around 5000-6000 k calories to see any gains? If so stop worrying about irrelevant stuff such as quoted above and supplements and all other unimportant shit. Make sure you consume around 170-200grams of protein per day, make sure you have some clean meals during the day(to satisfy your micronutrient, minerals, vitamins,..) like carbs with some fiber, vegetables, fruit,.... and then include some junk food, sweets, fatty foods into your diet to boost those calories up. That's the most important thing for you right now and not what kind of whey you're using or what kind of milk you're drinking.

And when I recommended a breakfast consisting of big chocolate and 1 liter of milk I wasn't joking...that would be a great start into your ''hard to eat enough calories'' day.
Gotcha. What does the big chocolate do?

[Funktion]

http://www.3zoz-gym.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/russion_bear_10000.jpg

[LBJ 23]

Gotcha. What does the big chocolate do?


Brings in the calories which are in your instance the most important thing which I highlighted in many of my posts related to you. But it doesn't need to be chocolate it can be anything which is high in calories. 1 liter of high fat milk will also give you a nice amount of calories + around 30 grams of protein to start the day.

Of course, you should obviously include healthy meals into your diet, better said, ''clean foods'' should be most of your diet but when a person needs to eat as many calories as you have to eat it's almost impossible to see any gains on clean foods only. And the reason is because it's very hard to eat such a big amount of clean foods which make you full very quickly and you can't even dream about reaching 5-6 k calories per day goal. That's when some high calorie foods like junk food, sweets, ice cream and other ''unhealthy'' foods come in handy. And don't worry, it won't kill you in the short term or in the long term if you include some of those ''unhealthy'' high calorie foods into you diet. But it will certainly help you reach that 5k calories per day goal which is by far the most importat for you now.

[hateraid]

Is SOY bad for consumption? There's a lot of controversy surrounding eating anything SOY. (The whey I have has SOY)

What form of soy? Soy protein or soy lethicin?

[hateraid]

What about salt intake?

What is your concern about it? From creatine? Creatine is not sodium


Havent bothered with creatine in years (had no results from it).

What were your expectations? Because the misconception is creatine will make you bigger. That's not always the case and not what it is intended to do. Creatine is for replenishing ATP, essentially the fuel your body burns for short bursts of energy. Creatine is to make you stronger, not bigger. It's intended to be taken POST workout when ATP levels are at it's lowest and your body can maximize uptake. It is also supposed to be taken consistently.

I have personally used creatine and LOST weight

[hateraid]

Fck. http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/38641-protein-spiking-alleged-body-fortress-false-ad-class-action-lawsuit/

The Whey Protein I purchased had spiked protein. Stay the fck away from this shit. After I finish it I'm done with that company forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1eC1YaJIoQ

Funny, I got into it with plowking and ISB over this exact same subject and they accused me of talking "broscience" I warned of this 2 years ago

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345971&page=6

Then I get taken for a salesman because I am explaining the quality of protein and the scam of the industry in bringing down costs. For all the advice I was giving people took it for granted. Now this has become a reality. My company was the only one at the time that openly challenged amino spiking and did not add extra aminos in the product. I debunked the "protein is protein" theory and explained costs. But got quickly dismissed and called salesman when all I was doing was offering genuine advice. You guys should have listened...I do this for a living

[hateraid]

If I remember right you said you need to eat around 5000-6000 k calories to see any gains? If so stop worrying about irrelevant stuff such as quoted above and supplements and all other unimportant shit. Make sure you consume around 170-200grams of protein per day, make sure you have some clean meals during the day(to satisfy your micronutrient, minerals, vitamins,..) like carbs with some fiber, vegetables, fruit,.... and then include some junk food, sweets, fatty foods into your diet to boost those calories up. That's the most important thing for you right now and not what kind of whey you're using or what kind of milk you're drinking.

And when I recommended a breakfast consisting of big chocolate and 1 liter of milk I wasn't joking...that would be a great start into your ''struggling to eat enough calories'' day.

What exactly do you think protein powders are? These "supplements" are food. It is a more convenient and cost effective way to increase calories.

[Draz]

Brings in the calories which are in your instance the most important thing which I highlighted in many of my posts related to you. But it doesn't need to be chocolate it can be anything which is high in calories. 1 liter of high fat milk will also give you a nice amount of calories + around 30 grams of protein to start the day.

Of course, you should obviously include healthy meals into your diet, better said, ''clean foods'' should be most of your diet but when a person needs to eat as many calories as you have to eat it's almost impossible to see any gains on clean foods only. And the reason is because it's very hard to eat such a big amount of clean foods which make you full very quickly and you can't even dream about reaching 5-6 k calories per day goal. That's when some high calorie foods like junk food, sweets, ice cream and other ''unhealthy'' foods come in handy. And don't worry, it won't kill you in the short term or in the long term if you include some of those ''unhealthy'' high calorie foods into you diet. But it will certainly help you reach that 5k calories per day goal which is by far the most importat for you now.

Wonder how many shits a day I would average with this diet :rolleyes:


What form of soy? Soy protein or soy lethicin?

I'll update tomorrow with info on it

[hateraid]

You dont play around, i like it :applause: Any experience with adaptogens?

Which adaptogens are you thinking of taking? What are you using it for?
If you follow ayurvedic principles adaptogens are the basis of balancing the body. I would highly recommend. Products like Ashwaghanda or Chyavanprash.

[hateraid]

I'll update tomorrow with info on it

I went and searched the label.
It's soy lecithin. It is actually used in all protein powders as an anti-clumping agent. It's actually necessary for the product.
On it's own it is commonly used to make phosphatidylcholine which is used to nourish the brain. Although there isn't a significant amount in protein powders to be usedfor that.

For the record Dymatize uses certified non-GMO soy if that is a concern for you

[Draz]

I went and searched the label.
It's soy lecithin. It is actually used in all protein powders as an anti-clumping agent. It's actually necessary for the product.
On it's own it is commonly used to make phosphatidylcholine which is used to nourish the brain. Although there isn't a significant amount in protein powders to be usedfor that.

For the record Dymatize uses certified non-GMO soy if that is a concern for you
Oh alright cool. Thanks. Nah, it's not a major concern if it's not an issue then.

[hateraid]

Oh alright cool. Thanks. Nah, it's not a major concern if it's not an issue then.

No problem.
But if amino spiking is a concern then look for Informedchoice.org on the label which certifies label claims. There is a reason better protein costs a little more. Protein spiking is a common tactic to lower protein costs. Some companies blatantly put it on labels because it tricks consumers to believing there is this extra benefit. Things like added BCAA's, or glutamine peptides are just fillers that reduce costs and add to protein labels. Just watch out for it. I know quite a few companies that do it. But out of respect for those companies I won't out them.

[BigNBAfan]

Are you sure we shouldn't go with chocolate? I love hersheys strawberry milk.. what's the percentage that it taste like it?

95%

[LBJ 23]

What exactly do you think protein powders are? These "supplements" are food. It is a more convenient and cost effective way to increase calories.


This is my post from a few pages back


Don't take this the wrong way but as long as you don't know how many calories you're consuming, what's your maintenance, what are approximately your daily macros.........all these supplements (personally wouldn't call whey supplement, it's food) are just small drops in the ocean.


:confusedshrug:

[LBJ 23]

What's funny to me is how everyone is trying to be smart when it comes to Draz's questions and just making everything more confusing for him. Be it whey structure, creatine usage, soy being healthy or not, what kind of milk to drink,...?

Obviously from his posts he's a beginner, and it would be much more helpfull for him if you would just simply tell him to train properly, sleep enough, eat around 170-230 grams of protein per day, eat big and enough calories per day(set a goal of let's say 4 k calories per day and weigh yourself a few times per week and observe what's happening in the mirror for a week or 2 and you will see what your next step should be) and start tracking his macros and calories to atleast give a rough estimate how much he ate for a day (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/). And that's it.

But you all are so happy and quick to go into detailed explanations of whey structure, creatine, different sources of food for him etc,.... and a guy doesn't even know if he hits his daily protein goal, calorie goal and we haven't even got to training yet(even though begginers will grow on any resistance training in the begininng if the above points are on point). Like I said I'm yet to see a post which would tell him just this simple but at the moment the most important info.

[fiddy]

What is your concern about it? From creatine? Creatine is not sodium


Should you watch your salt intake, while on creatine (newer formulas)? Thats my main concern, because i've seen plenty of dudes on creatine, who just looked bloated with water.


Which adaptogens are you thinking of taking? What are you using it for?
If you follow ayurvedic principles adaptogens are the basis of balancing the body. I would highly recommend. Products like Ashwaghanda or Chyavanprash.
I've tried (have on hand) several:
-panax ginseng for energy and aggressiveness
-eleuthero (siberian ginseng) for physical endurance
-american ginseng (for cannabis detox)
-maca root (tried it several times, did not notice much)
-rhodiola (also did not notice much, although its highly praised), i think i felt the mild MAOi in it
-ashwagandha (too sedating for me, gives me a nice boner doe)

last i'd add forskolin (not sure if its classified as an adaptogen or just a herb), but i'd recommend, raises T levels, some even claims that it burns fat and builds muscle at the same time (i know lol)

[BigNBAfan]

What's funny to me is how everyone is trying to be smart when it comes to Draz's questions and just making everything more confusing for him. Be it whey structure, creatine usage, soy being healthy or not, what kind of milk to drink,...?

Obviously from his posts he's a beginner, and it would be much more helpfull for him if you would just simply tell him to train properly, sleep enough, eat around 170-230 grams of protein per day, eat big and enough calories per day(set a goal of let's say 4 k calories per day and weigh yourself a few times per week and observe what's happening in the mirror for a week or 2 and you will see what your next step should be) and start tracking his macros and calories to atleast give a rough estimate how much he ate for a day (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/). And that's it.

But you all are so happy and quick to go into detailed explanations of whey structure, creatine, different sources of food for him etc,.... and a guy doesn't even know if he hits his daily protein goal, calorie goal and we haven't even got to training yet(even though begginers will grow on any resistance training in the begininng if the above points are on point). Like I said I'm yet to see a post which would tell him just this simple but at the moment the most important info.


Maybe no ones helping him because no one cares or has the knowledge to? If you have the time for it for it. All I did was provide him with affordable quality protein that I myself use.

Myfitnesspal is a joke, want a fast way to lose motivation? Input all of your meals on your phone because we all have time to do that everyday.... Eat clean if you're not on anabolics lift heavy and take in body weight in grams of protein while staying above 1k in caloric intake.

[hateraid]

This is my post from a few pages back

:confusedshrug:

Sorry, I read passed that. My apologies. I didn't mean to sound snarky either.

[hateraid]

What's funny to me is how everyone is trying to be smart when it comes to Draz's questions and just making everything more confusing for him. Be it whey structure, creatine usage, soy being healthy or not, what kind of milk to drink,...?

Obviously from his posts he's a beginner, and it would be much more helpfull for him if you would just simply tell him to train properly, sleep enough, eat around 170-230 grams of protein per day, eat big and enough calories per day(set a goal of let's say 4 k calories per day and weigh yourself a few times per week and observe what's happening in the mirror for a week or 2 and you will see what your next step should be) and start tracking his macros and calories to atleast give a rough estimate how much he ate for a day (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/). And that's it.

But you all are so happy and quick to go into detailed explanations of whey structure, creatine, different sources of food for him etc,.... and a guy doesn't even know if he hits his daily protein goal, calorie goal and we haven't even got to training yet(even though begginers will grow on any resistance training in the begininng if the above points are on point). Like I said I'm yet to see a post which would tell him just this simple but at the moment the most important info.

I can't speak for everyone else, but in my case this is what I'm paid to do. My career is in the supplement industry.

And what is the harm in Draz asking and posters providing information? He is curious and most of us are catering to his questions. And as far as I've read nobody is refuting a proper diet or even making claims that he'll get his results from supplementing. He's also posted what he is eating and diet program. It's not like Draz is focusing solely on the supplements.

I don't get the resistance on supplements. Never in my career or anybody I've ever worked with has ever said rely on supplements and don't watch what you eat. And everyone I've ever consulted with whether as a professional, working at GNC, or promoting my brand, I have ALWAYS stated diet is 80% of your results, training is 15%, and 5% supplementing. People like Draz are curious and possibly want to try certain supplements. He's doing the right thing by at least educating himself on what to take and how it works. It's better than committing to what an advertisement says and buying into it. He doesn't need the foodies whispering in his ear "you don't need those, eat right, that's all you need"

In my experience people who eat right AND take supplements will almost always get better results that just relying on food alone. Supplements are to compliment and fill nutritional gaps that are difficult to acquire solely from food. So why not take both together? There are nutrients required for the body that are almost impossible to get directly from diet. A simple supplement is a cost effective means to get the optimal intake. Things like Omega 3, phytonutrients, adequate vitamins and minerals, can be all supplemented much more cost effectively and conveniently through supplementing. And as far as sports nutrition, they are to improve an already solid base. Do we really need an external harddrive for our laptops or videogame consoles? No, but it will improve your devices functions. That's what supplements are intended to do. Take something good and assist in making it better. Not take over the entire function

[hateraid]

Should you watch your salt intake, while on creatine (newer formulas)? Thats my main concern, because i've seen plenty of dudes on creatine, who just looked bloated with water.

Absolutely, but that goes without say. But in cases with people taking creatine it won't enhance the side effects or cause any long term damage. Creatine is also intended to be taken intermittently. So it's not like it's a consistant



I've tried (have on hand) several:
-panax ginseng for energy and aggressiveness
-eleuthero (siberian ginseng) for physical endurance
-american ginseng (for cannabis detox)
-maca root (tried it several times, did not notice much)
-rhodiola (also did not notice much, although its highly praised), i think i felt the mild MAOi in it
-ashwagandha (too sedating for me, gives me a nice boner doe)

Ginsengs I find have different properties depending on region. The Asian ones have stimulating effects, the American ones have immune boosting effects, and eastern European ones have a little of both. So exactly what you've described with your experience. But I don't find them to be a full spectrum adaptagen. Maca is good but it's more for male enhancement than an adaptagen. Rhodiola is more beneficial for women.

Ashwaghanda I find weird it gave you a sedative type of effect. I have recommended it to people to even enhance energy. It's the ideal herb for adrenal functions. Try it again but more consistently. If you can find it try a brand called Himalaya. Or all together a formula called Stresscare from Himalaya. It's an Indian based Pharma company that does prescription formulations but called be sold retail in North America

last i'd add forskolin (not sure if its classified as an adaptogen or just a herb), but i'd recommend, raises T levels, some even claims that it burns fat and builds muscle at the same time (i know lol)[/QUOTE]

[LBJ 23]

I can't speak for everyone else, but in my case this is what I'm paid to do. My career is in the supplement industry.

And what is the harm in Draz asking and posters providing information? He is curious and most of us are catering to his questions. And as far as I've read nobody is refuting a proper diet or even making claims that he'll get his results from supplementing. He's also posted what he is eating and diet program. It's not like Draz is focusing solely on the supplements.

I don't get the resistance on supplements. Never in my career or anybody I've ever worked with has ever said rely on supplements and don't watch what you eat. And everyone I've ever consulted with whether as a professional, working at GNC, or promoting my brand, I have ALWAYS stated diet is 80% of your results, training is 15%, and 5% supplementing. People like Draz are curious and possibly want to try certain supplements. He's doing the right thing by at least educating himself on what to take and how it works. It's better than committing to what an advertisement says and buying into it. He doesn't need the foodies whispering in his ear "you don't need those, eat right, that's all you need"

In my experience people who eat right AND take supplements will almost always get better results that just relying on food alone. Supplements are to compliment and fill nutritional gaps that are difficult to acquire solely from food. So why not take both together? There are nutrients required for the body that are almost impossible to get directly from diet. A simple supplement is a cost effective means to get the optimal intake. Things like Omega 3, phytonutrients, adequate vitamins and minerals, can be all supplemented much more cost effectively and conveniently through supplementing. And as far as sports nutrition, they are to improve an already solid base. Do we really need an external harddrive for our laptops or videogame consoles? No, but it will improve your devices functions. That's what supplements are intended to do. Take something good and assist in making it better. Not take over the entire function

Fair enough.

Really well put together post and I really can't refute anything you're saying. After all, this is a vitamins/supplements thread so obviously there will be detailed discussion about this topics.

But reading Draz's post gave me the impression he's putting supplements and certain food choices above everything else which in reality, like you said for a person trying to achieve a specific physique naturally is more like 5% or even less of the ''bigger picture''. So my bad for wrong understanding.

[hateraid]

Fair enough.

Really well put together post and I really can't refute anything you're saying. After all, this is a vitamins/supplements thread so obviously there will be detailed discussion about this topics.

But reading Draz's post gave me the impression he's putting supplements and certain food choices above everything else which in reality, like you said for a person trying to achieve a specific physique naturally is more like 5% or even less of the ''bigger picture''. So my bad for wrong understanding.

:cheers:
You have good intentions and that was clear. I 100% agree with you that he should tighten up his diet to get the best results. We're all learning, including me. It's great to have a community that just wants to help!

[LBJ 23]

Maybe no ones helping him because no one cares or has the knowledge to? If you have the time for it for it. All I did was provide him with affordable quality protein that I myself use.

Myfitnesspal is a joke, want a fast way to lose motivation? Input all of your meals on your phone because we all have time to do that everyday.... Eat clean if you're not on anabolics lift heavy and take in body weight in grams of protein while staying above 1k in caloric intake.


Well that's a shame I thought this is a forum where we help eachother but you're right...it's just ISH.

I don't know about myfitnesspal and losing motivation. Personally I takes me 3-5 minutes per day to input all my food intake which I think is a small sacrifice to know where I am approximately at with my proteins/carbs/fats/ fibers and ultimately with my calories. When I want to gain some weight or cut a little I know excatly what I have to do when it comes to nutrition, add some calories or cut some calories it's pretty simple.

Fast way to lose motivation? In my case that was when I was years ago listening to ''bros'' who were on gear and I was/am not, and who put clean eating and all kinds of whey(you know casein before sleeping!, isolate right after training!, and all other supplements like glutamin, creatin,..) above anything else. I lost tons of money for supplements, my physique stayed the same and I was going nowhere. Talk about losing motivation.

Then I joined bodybuilding..com, started counting my calories, tracked my macros and started to eat more flexible and suddenly boooom magic happened. My physique finally started changing.


You say ''take in body weight in grams of protein while staying above 1k in caloric intake'', what do you mean by that? Staying 1k above your maintenance or just eating atleast 1k of calories per day and that's it?

[Draz]

I just had these


http://wincofoods.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Special-K.jpg
http://www.kelloggs.com/content/dam/common/products/nutrition/KelloggsSpecialKCerealChocolateAlmond_4508694.gif


Going to work out at 4:15-4:30. So, if I add a banana at around 3:45, I should be good for having a productive workout right? What cereals are best to eat? Should I stick to this one? It DOES have 8g's of sugar.. but that shouldn't be an issue for me. And thanks guys, but just be more caring to my butthole. I shit 3 times yesterday, and I feel like I'm approaching my second shit today. I don't know if I'm lactose intolerant or I'm just not used to eating this much causing bowl movements.

[fiddy]

Ashwaghanda I find weird it gave you a sedative type of effect. I have recommended it to people to even enhance energy. It's the ideal herb for adrenal functions. Try it again but more consistently. If you can find it try a brand called Himalaya. Or all together a formula called Stresscare from Himalaya. It's an Indian based Pharma company that does prescription formulations but called be sold retail in North America

See the small bottle with greenish/blueish cap thats Himalaya labs ashwagandha :lol

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12156587&postcount=2


Since ashwagandha has sedative effects, it could help ease anxiety and stress -- in fact, human studies have indicated as much.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/lifestyle-guide-11/supplement-guide-ashwagandha

Dunno bruh, finished a bottle of it, never felt increased energy even remotely close to eleuthero or panax ginseng. Also gives me increase appetite.

[hateraid]

See the small bottle with greenish/blueish cap thats Himalaya labs ashwagandha :lol

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12156587&postcount=2



http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/lifestyle-guide-11/supplement-guide-ashwagandha

Dunno bruh, finished a bottle of it, never felt increased energy even remotely close to eleuthero or panax ginseng. Also gives me increase appetite.

It won't have stimulating effects. It's intended for balance. So if you are stimulated, it will bring you down, if you are stressed, it will relieve tension. If you are lethargic it will bring energy. That's essentially the function of an adaptagen. That's why I don't necessarily agree with the term when used for ginseng. Stimulation is only a single aspect of an adaptagen. The term adaptegen is to allow the body to naturally take over cettain conditions. Energy through well being, not stimulatuon. But it's all based on expectations. If you expect one thing and it is not as profound, it doesn't mean it's not working.

[fiddy]

It won't have stimulating effects. It's intended for balance. So if you are stimulated, it will bring you down, if you are stressed, it will relieve tension. If you are lethargic it will bring energy. That's essentially the function of an adaptagen. That's why I don't necessarily agree with the term when used for ginseng. Stimulation is only a single aspect of an adaptagen. The term adaptegen is to allow the body to naturally take over cettain conditions. Energy through well being, not stimulatuon. But it's all based on expectations. If you expect one thing and it is not as profound, it doesn't mean it's not working.

Still not convinced about it, as i have taken it in various situation (sleepy, aggressive, sleep deprived, normal state in the morning, etc). The effects has been a constant for me: increased hunger, sedition and good boner. Thats just one personal experience doe.

[hateraid]

Still not convinced about it, as i have taken it in various situation (sleepy, aggressive, sleep deprived, normal state in the morning, etc). The effects has been a constant for me: increased hunger, sedition and good boner. Thats just one personal experience doe.

Fair enough. But what I was actually eluding to was are you looking for an adaptagen or a stimulant? Because those are 2 different things that are triggered by two different pathways. It sounds like you want something for energy.

Just asking because I'm actually a certified Herbalist.

[fiddy]

Fair enough. But what I was actually eluding to was are you looking for an adaptagen or a stimulant? Because those are 2 different things that are triggered by two different pathways. It sounds like you want something for energy.

Just asking because I'm actually a certified Herbalist.
Actually my main interest in supplements comes from nootropic point of view, rather than a body building/physical training position. Ashwagandha doesnt fit my goals unfortunately. If you can find me non-toxic natural equivalent of amphetamines, im sending you 500$ over pp :D

[hateraid]

Actually my main interest in supplements comes from nootropic point of view, rather than a body building/physical training position. Ashwagandha doesnt fit my goals unfortunately. If you can find me non-toxic natural equivalent of amphetamines, im sending you 500$ over pp :D

Lol, now it's more clear.
Try Dendrobium. Very similar effects to Adderall.

[fiddy]

Lol, now it's more clear.
Try Dendrobium. Very similar effects to Adderall.
Seems to be an ingredient of DS Craze, definitely will look into it. Thanks for the recommendation.

[hateraid]

Seems to be an ingredient of DS Craze, definitely will look into it. Thanks for the recommendation.

I don't know if Craze still uses it. Try Dendrobium Nobile on its own. I remember trying it and the cognitive effects were outstanding

[Draz]

Man Oh man Oh man. My body looks much better in just 5 days of bulking and working out (2 weeks)

This is my third shit for the day
Had three yesterday

Didn't even drink my whey protein yet!

My body isn't used to eating this much shit. But I'm trying. I'm getting there!! You can tell a difference in my shape though. I'm excited. This time, it's twice as motivated than my last attempt with my ex.

[dkmwise]

Man Oh man Oh man. My body looks much better in just 5 days of bulking and working out (2 weeks)

This is my third shit for the day
Had three yesterday

Didn't even drink my whey protein yet!

My body isn't used to eating this much shit. But I'm trying. I'm getting there!! You can tell a difference in my shape though. I'm excited. This time, it's twice as motivated than my last attempt with my ex.

Is this obvious trolling???

[Draz]

Is this obvious trolling???
No.. I'm being serious dude. I'm extremely skinny. It's not hard for me to gain weight when I actually try too. I just don't eat like a beast my entire life. No reason to. I don't have an appetite.

[dkmwise]

Haha, ok. Had to wonder with all this talk about shitting

[Draz]

Yeah. My body isn't used to this calorie and protein intake. Worried about tomorrow I have class.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Is this obvious trolling???
He's a gimmick account. One of the best around.

[knickballer]

Man Oh man Oh man. My body looks much better in just 5 days of bulking and working out (2 weeks)

This is my third shit for the day
Had three yesterday

Didn't even drink my whey protein yet!

My body isn't used to eating this much shit. But I'm trying. I'm getting there!! You can tell a difference in my shape though. I'm excited. This time, it's twice as motivated than my last attempt with my ex.

How tall are you? If I was you I'd be cautious and try to avoid a dirty bulk. Bulking gets hyped up too much and I've seen alot of people who went on a bulk get too bulky(to the point of chunky) and never lose their weight.

I'd be focused on going on a lean bulk with consuming a good amount of protein. Be patient as it's your body and if you do things right you'll get a leaner but ripped look which is better than your average chubster at the gym.

[Draz]

How tall are you? If I was you I'd be cautious and try to avoid a dirty bulk. Bulking gets hyped up too much and I've seen alot of people who went on a bulk get too bulky(to the point of chunky) and never lose their weight.

I'd be focused on going on a lean bulk with consuming a good amount of protein. Be patient as it's your body and if you do things right you'll get a leaner but ripped look which is better than your average chubster at the gym.
I'm 5'10

[dkmwise]

How tall are you? If I was you I'd be cautious and try to avoid a dirty bulk. Bulking gets hyped up too much and I've seen alot of people who went on a bulk get too bulky(to the point of chunky) and never lose their weight.

I'd be focused on going on a lean bulk with consuming a good amount of protein. Be patient as it's your body and if you do things right you'll get a leaner but ripped look which is better than your average chubster at the gym.

I've found bulking to be my biggest problem. Over this last spring/summer I got really efficient with my cut, I would eat 1600-1800 calories on my gym day and 1200-1500 and my non gym days and lost weight at a good rate, got down to 147. I had really good disciple on the cut, but on the bulk, I kind of lose all discipline and end up eating too much or too many calories of bad food and put fat on too quickly.

[Draz]

Fiddy.

I just purchased 12lbs of ON Serious Mass. Shit came within 24 hours from Amazon for $48 free shipping wtf..

I also just ordered Optimum Nutrition Creatine Powder, Unflavored, 300g (5g per serving)

Now. I'm understanding it's best used post-workout (one teaspoon) for best results, on workout days and off days. HOWEVER. What I'm also understanding is, you need to intake a great amount of water. About a gallon or so to play it safe. At 16.9 x 7 1/2 I'll have 128oz (1GL). I'd more than likely max out at 4 bottles of water a day for now. Would this be enough? I don't want to strain my kidneys and get kidney stones. I'll check my filter if it's working properly, haven't tested it in a while. If it's working fine, I'll add the additional 3 1/2 bottles to my routine and call it a night.

Any experience with Creatine? It was $11. Am I making a mistake?

[knickballer]

Just be weary with creatine as you'll gain mostly water weight (Hence the large amounts of water you need to drink) and once you stop using it you'll lose that weight quickly.

It's been years since I took it but look up the cycles for creatine use. If I remember you only use it at like 2 months at a time and then you need to stop using it for a while. You also need to do a "Flush" when you start it

[Draz]

Just be weary with creatine as you'll gain mostly water weight (Hence the large amounts of water you need to drink) and once you stop using it you'll lose that weight quickly.

It's been years since I took it but look up the cycles for creatine use. If I remember you only use it at like 2 months at a time and then you need to stop using it for a while. You also need to do a "Flush" when you start it
I heard the "water weight" you'll lose from your body, but the muscle mass will still remain the same if you stop considering it's lean. It's used more for getting those extra reps in, more energy, allowing you to workout harder to gain more muscle.

I'll also cycle it. Either use it for one month, stop for 2 weeks, repeat. Once it's finished I'll see where I'm at and what difference it made to continue (considering it's cheap).

Chris Jones said not to load or cycle. I'll just take it every day until it runs out I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYTGhTURHL0

I mean.. our bodies MAKE creatine. We get it in steak and chicken, as well as other foods.

My only issue is, not wanting kidney stones or hair loss lol.

[Draz]

Bump

[fiddy]

gonna try artichoke extract in a couple of weeks

[Draz]

gonna try artichoke extract in a couple of weeks
Btch, creatine, you used it?

[fiddy]

Btch, creatine, you used it?
Yup, never really felt anything from it.

[Draz]

Yup, never really felt anything from it.
Were you drinking a gallon of water a day +/-? If not then I doubt it worked

[fiddy]

I really drink less then 2.5-3 liters of liquids per day

[Draz]

I really drink less then 2.5-3 liters of liquids per day
I think it's like 25% of people who take creatine are immune to it. You're more than likely one because that's a lot of water, given that you took 5g of creatine every day on/off workouts.

[fiddy]

Tried creatine monohydrate and a creatine matrix (several types of creatine in one product), did not notice anything. Not messing with creatine anymore :oldlol:

[Draz]

Took about 3-5g's of my first dosage of ON's Creatine. Instantly, about 5-10 minutes after I feel a little blurry vision and SLIGHT, very slight, light headed feeling.

[BigNBAfan]

Update: I lost my balls

[Draz]

Not really liking that I'm starting to experiment with my body taking all these supplements and shit.

Whey protein
Weight gainer
Creatine
L-Argenine
Fish Oils Omega-3
Multi vitamins
Bioten
D3

List goes onward

[coin24]

I love when people tell me they can't put on weight and go on to explain there huge 1200 calorie a day diet:lol :lol