Kobe and lack of MVP awards debate DESTROYED by me in this thread...

[stalkerforlife]

01-02 - Kobe was 5th in voting.

02-03 - Kobe was 3rd in voting.

03-04 - Kobe was 5th in voting.

05-06 - Kobe was 4th in voting.

06-07 - Kobe was 3rd in voting.

07-08 - Kobe won the MVP.

08-09 - Kobe was 2nd in MVP voting.

09-10 - Kobe was 3rd in voting.

10-11 - Kobe was 4th in voting.

11-12 - Kobe was 4th in voting.

12-13 - Kobe was 5th in voting.

Kobe has been top 5 in MVP voting for 11 seasons. Kobe has been top 3 another 5 seasons.

The longevity of greatness displayed by Kobe makes the MVP award HIS BITCH. Kobe didn't feel a need to pad stats in irrelevant regular season games to win MVP awards; he was simply himself and still almost won 11 MVP awards. Kobe could've won a LOT of scoring titles, but he ALWAYS dialed it down in the regular season to ensure he was ready for the playoffs. Kobe didn't protect his stats by continuously leaking out before a shot is made or missed; Kobe didn't hold onto the ball for the duration of the shot clock to ensure his pass would lead to the assist; Kobe didn't take only easy shots to protect his percentages; Kobe was HIMSELF and didn't give a PHUCK about your opinion.

That's REAL.

[TheMarkMadsen]

god dammit

[keep-itreal]

6/24

[Jameerthefear]

tl;dr
one starred
negged
reported

[stalkerforlife]

6/24

Weak sauce.

They won the game/series/title in that game; Kobe had 10 points in the 4th and never waned when the game was tight.

Stayed alpha.

No 2011 BS.

[guy]

He didn't "almost win 11 MVP awards" :oldlol: I don't care what MVP voting says. He wasn't seriously discussed and considered to win MVP at any time outside of 06-08.

[ShawkFactory]

Horrible passive voice.

I thought them teachers told you that PA was grammatically abominable.

[stalkerforlife]

He didn't "almost win 11 MVP awards" :oldlol: I don't care what MVP voting says. He wasn't seriously discussed and considered to win MVP at any time outside of 06-08.

The entire respected basketball universe considered Kobe the best in the world and he wasn't winning MVP awards.

[guy]

The entire respected basketball universe considered Kobe the best in the world and he wasn't winning MVP awards.

Yes, best in the world was probably a discussion from about 2003-2012. But that's different from MVP. He really had no argument over Duncan, KG, and Lebron in the years they won MVP and he didn't really come to close to winning MVP those years as a result.

[imnew09]

If PrimeBe played in the EAST with the teammates that Lebron has, Kobe wouldve gotten at least 6 mvps


Weak a$$ east

[Lebron23]

If PrimeBe played in the EAST with the teammates that Lebron has, Kobe wouldve gotten at least 6 mvps


Weak a$$ east


He had a chance to play for an eastern conference team (Charlotte Hornets), but he wanted to play for the Lakers in his rookie season.

[TripleA]

So 2 top 2 finishes in his career.
:bowdown:
Almostmvpbe

[Bosnian Sajo]

Honestly, it is criminal that he only has 1 MVP. 03, 06, 07, and 09 he had STRONG cases of being MVP, but there was always some moral reason not to give it to him. He had the media totally against him in 03, what with the whole rape charges...which is bs, you shouldn't let something like that come into the fact when discussing his level in basketball. 06 can't be explained, he balled and averaged 35ppg for crying out loud, and even almost beat the MVP that year in the first round (forever a big **** you to Tim Thomas).

07 they gave it to Nowitzki for being on the best regular season team, who ended up losing to 8th seed GSW. And then 09 they didn't give it to him because it was time for Lebron to win one....bullshit. Steve Nash should never have been an mvp, I'm sorry but he never will be regarded as an ALL TIME GREAT, yet he took mvp's away from both Shaq and Kobe. The fact that they gave it to him back to back irks me to this day, you'll never see another player average 15ppg and win MVP.

[raprap]

#almost :cry:

[GrapeApe]

Honestly, it is criminal that he only has 1 MVP. 03, 06, 07, and 09 he had STRONG cases of being MVP, but there was always some moral reason not to give it to him. He had the media totally against him in 03, what with the whole rape charges...which is bs, you shouldn't let something like that come into the fact when discussing his level in basketball. 06 can't be explained, he balled and averaged 35ppg for crying out loud, and even almost beat the MVP that year in the first round (forever a big **** you to Tim Thomas).

07 they gave it to Nowitzki for being on the best regular season team, who ended up losing to 8th seed GSW. And then 09 they didn't give it to him because it was time for Lebron to win one....bullshit. Steve Nash should never have been an mvp, I'm sorry but he never will be regarded as an ALL TIME GREAT, yet he took mvp's away from both Shaq and Kobe. The fact that they gave it to him back to back irks me to this day, you'll never see another player average 15ppg and win MVP.

Moral reasons? How about the fact that there were more deserving players? You're not winning MVP on a 40 something win team, so that eliminates 2006 and 2007. I don't understand your point about Nowitzki losing in the playoffs since the MVP is a regular season award. The voters are not psychics. In 2009 Lebron had better numbers than Kobe across the board. In 2003 Duncan led the Spurs to 10 more wins than the Lakers and he did it with a 20 year old Tony Parker as his second option. Duncan was without question the deserving MVP that season.

I do agree that Nash having 2 MVP's while Shaq and Kobe only have 1 apiece is pretty crazy, but it's an issue of circumstance and the ambiguity of the criteria for the award.

[AintNoSunshine]

Are you trying to say Kobe was never the undisputed best in the league? I agree. 2008 he only won it as a career achievement award anyway. Lebron was visibly better.

[Moonbeam]

Kobe does have great longevity as an elite player. But some of what you are saying is exaggerated. He didn't coast much during the regular season. His playoff PPG is 0.3 higher than the corresponding PPG of the regular seasons, in 3 more MPG. The guy has some of the highest usage seasons ever recorded.

As far as MVPs are concerned, I think he got the one award he had a real case to win. His elite longevity has led him to be 11th all time in MVP shares, but he does not have a hugely dominant peak compared to some others.

The story of Kobe as a player is that of a relentless workaholic who attacked the game with individual focus, for better and for worse.

[Kawhi]

01-02: 1 first place vote, 98 total points (MVP Tim Duncan had 954)
02-03: 8 first place votes, 496 total points (MVP Tim Duncan had 962)
03-04: 0 first place votes, 212 total points (MVP Kevin Garnett had 1219)
04-05: 0 first place votes, 0 total points (MVP Steve Nash had 1066)
05-06: 22 first place votes, 483 total points (MVP Steve Nash had 924)
06-07: 2 first place votes, 521 total points (MVP Dirk Nowitzki had 1138)
07-08: 82 first place votes, 1105 total points (No. 2 Chris Paul had 889)
08-09: 2 first place votes, 698 total points (MVP LeBron James had 1172)
09-10: 0 first place votes, 599 total points (MVP LeBron James had 1205)
10-11: 1 first place vote, 428 total points (MVP Derrick Rose had 1182)
11-12: 2 first place votes, 352 total points (MVP LeBron James had 1074)
12-13: 0 first place votes, 184 total points (MVP LeBron James had 1207)
13-14: 0 first place votes, 0 total points (MVP Kevin Durant had 1232)
14-15: 0 first place votes, 0 total points (MVP Steph Curry had 1198)

Almost MVPbe.

[Kawhi]

The longevity of greatness displayed by Kobe makes the MVP award HIS BITCH. Kobe didn't feel a need to pad stats in irrelevant regular season games to win MVP awards; he was simply himself and still almost won 11 MVP awards. Kobe could've won a LOT of scoring titles, but he ALWAYS dialed it down in the regular season to ensure he was ready for the playoffs.

If so, then please explain the following:

Kobe Bryant regular season ppg: 25.1
Kobe Bryant playoffs ppg: 25.6
+/-: + 0.5

Kobe Bryant regular season FG%: .448%
Kobe Bryant playoffs FG%: .448%
+/-: 0.0

Kobe Bryant regular season apg: 4.7
Kobe Bryant playoffs apg: 4.7
+/-: 0.0

Kobe Bryant regular season rpg: 5.3
Kobe Bryant playoffs rpg: 5.1
+/-: - 0.2

Kobe Bryant regular season spg: 1.5
Kobe Bryant playoffs spg: 1.4
+/-: - 0.1

[CurryOverLebron]

http://lakerholicz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/dwight-howard-lakers_00.jpg

[Smoke117]

How does you showing how Kobe was a 4th or 5th runner-up and showing how he garnered it in 2008 over a much more deserving Chris Paul mean anything? You legit have the worst reputation when it comes to basketball here...so pat yourself on the back I guess? If being a joke was your goal you have achieved it and made yourself a legend.

[red1]

god dammit
:oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Moral reasons? How about the fact that there were more deserving players? You're not winning MVP on a 40 something win team, so that eliminates 2006 and 2007. I don't understand your point about Nowitzki losing in the playoffs since the MVP is a regular season award. The voters are not psychics. In 2009 Lebron had better numbers than Kobe across the board. In 2003 Duncan led the Spurs to 10 more wins than the Lakers and he did it with a 20 year old Tony Parker as his second option. Duncan was without question the deserving MVP that season.

I do agree that Nash having 2 MVP's while Shaq and Kobe only have 1 apiece is pretty crazy, but it's an issue of circumstance and the ambiguity of the criteria for the award.

ok so why care about regular season awards so much...Kareem won one when he didnt even make the POs :oldlol:

[Nash]

Well, he's not a top 10 player so his MVP amount is accurate.

[Nick Young]

6/24
You mean the GOAT clutch rebounding game by a shooting guard in finals history AKA 15 BOARDS?

[OmniStrife]

1/20...

[Dragonyeuw]

Honestly, it is criminal that he only has 1 MVP. 03, 06, 07, and 09 he had STRONG cases of being MVP, but there was always some moral reason not to give it to him. He had the media totally against him in 03, what with the whole rape charges...

The rape charges had no bearing on the 2002-2003 season, because it occurred in the summer of 2003. There is an argument to be had for 2006 and 2007 if you subscribe to the theory that the Lakers completely crumble if you took Kobe off those teams, but that's not how the voters look at it( which for the record, I don't agree with how they vote).

2009 he had a case, as did Wade if you applied the same argument for him that you would for Kobe in 2006 and 07. Lebron ultimately had the best combination of stats and team record, so he won in 2009. I suppose one could make the argument that the Lakers winning 65 in the west was more impressive than the Cavs winning 66 in the east, but that's not how the voters see it. Yes the voting criteria is screwed, but I don't see where 'morality' comes into Kobe not winning more MVPs. Heck, Chris Paul was a credible MVP contender in 2008, but the voters rewarded Kobe's growth as a leader, re-dedication to the defensive end, and his team winning the West.

[KnittingRyu]

Don't forget his only win was a career achievement.

[Bandito]

He had a chance to play for an eastern conference team (Charlotte Hornets), but he wanted to play for the Lakers in his rookie season.
He has so much pull as 18 year old he CHOSE to play whenever he wanted. So Alpha. Meanwhile Lebron changed teams when Alpha Wade told him to comw to his team and be his Robin.

[feyki]

First time good thread by Stalker . Nice work .

10th GOAT .

[ImKobe]

How does you showing how Kobe was a 4th or 5th runner-up and showing how he garnered it in 2008 over a much more deserving Chris Paul mean anything? You legit have the worst reputation when it comes to basketball here...so pat yourself on the back I guess? If being a joke was your goal you have achieved it and made yourself a legend.

How did Chris Paul deserve it more? Kobe wasn't playing with Gasol/Bynum all year and his team had the better record...

And if you say that CP3 had better averages...Kobe should have won in 06 and 07 then because he was destroying the league but the criteria was that his team needed to be a contender

CP3's 3 best supporting players

David West 21/9 48% shooting 1.3 bpg
Tyson Chandler 12/12 62% shooting 1.2 bpg
Peja 16/4 44% 3PT

56-26 record

Kobe's help

Pau Gasol (27 games) 19/8 59% shooting 1.6 bpg
Lamar Odom 14/11 53% shooting
Andrew Bynum (35 games) 13/10 64% shooting 2.1 bpg

57-25 record

So Kobe really only had LO for all of the season out of the 3 best guys who produced for the team, Lakers were starting Kwame, Mihm and Cook like it was 2006 all over again and they still managed to have the better record while NO was healthy all year with CP3 putting up crazy fantasy numbers and having one of the best front courts in the league.

So how can you say Kobe wasn't deserving of the MVP when he had the best record in the conference despite the injuries and trades mid-season? He got a player as good as David West with 2 months to go in the season and they go 22-5 with Pau to close out the season while the Hornets go 19-8 and lose 3 of their last 4 games to lose the #1 seed, only to lose a game 7 at home vs San Antonio, the same team Kobe destroyed in 5 games. Playoffs showed Kobe's MVP was well deserved.

Kobe after Pau trade - 29/7/6/2 on 45/39(5 3PA)/83 shooting 6.2 +/-
CP3 same time period - 22/4/13/3 on 51/41(3PA)/80 shooting 5.3 +/-

Chris doesn't get the MVP the same reason Kobe didnt get his the previous years, media said he didn't win enough, and in this case they were right. The only reason you think he deserved it was his production but if we talk about Kobe's 06 season you say his team was irrelevant, the Hornets didn't close out the regular season while the Lakers did...

in one of the 3 losses to end the season, Hornets played the Lakers, they lost by 3 points

Kobe: 29/10/8/2 on 9/17 shooting, 69%TS
CP3: 15/6/17/4 on 4/13 shooting, 45%TS

Chris also went 4/13 the following game against Sacramento to lose by 3 points again.

Now tell me how Kobe didn't deserve the MVP.

[riseagainst]

OP is the most knowledgeable poster on ISH.

again, destroyed the haters.

:applause:

[stalkerforlife]

OP is the most knowledgeable poster on ISH.

again, destroyed the haters.

:applause:

:cheers:

[Optimus Prime]

He got robbed in 05-06. Steve Nash?

http://i.imgur.com/OUC0J.gif