Dirk, Bird, Lebron - Case of the 8 point games

[StrongLurk]

Dirk round 1 2007 playoffs against Warriors (elimination game)
-8/10/2 on 2-13 shooting, 0-6 from three

Lebron Game 4 in the 2011 Finals
-8/9/7 on 3-11 shooting, 0-3 from three

Bird Game 3 AND Game 4 in the 1981 NBA finals
-Back to Back 8 point games.

Just brutal stuff from these legends - can't even get started on Kobe.

[pastis]

difficult operation for dirks father during the series. his father stayed at the intensive care unit the whole series

[Dr Hawk]

difficult operation for dirks father during the series. his father stayed at the intensive care unit the whole series

Is this true=

[HOoopCityJones]

difficult operation for dirks father during the series. his father stayed at the intensive care unit the whole series

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5450f0c469beddc803b33573/kobe-bryant-calls-dwight-howard-soft-gif.gif

[pastis]

Is this true=


[QUOTE]... while the top-seeded Mavericks were getting shocked by Golden State in the first round of last spring's playoffs, the public never knew that Nowitzki's father, J

[DMAVS41]

Is this true=

It is true, but it was also an awful game.

However, winning in GS was a pipe dream for that Mavs team after going down 3-1 and the only reason it wasn't over in 5 was because Dirk went nuts late in game 5 to extend the series.

[feyki]

13 reb , 10 ast , 5 stl , 2 blk and won by 94-71 .

Dirk struggled against Don Nelson . Don Nelson was his master , who adapt Dirk to the NBA .

No reason for Lebron . Definitely choke .

[Champ]

Spare us the BS that Bird played poorly just because he scored 8 points in those games. In fact, he only took 11 shots in each of those games, but his presence was felt everywhere else on the court.

Game 3 stat line includes:
- 13 rebounds (against a prime M. Malone, also led team)
- 10 assists (led both teams, his total equaled the 'entire' Rockets squad)
- 5 steals (led both teams)
- 3 blocks (led team)
- 44 minutes (led both teams)

Game 4 stat line includes:
- 12 rebounds
- 7 assists (led team)
- 3 steals (led team)
- 43 minutes (led team)

One the biggest myths on this forum, propagated by jlauber and select others, is that Bird had bad series against Houston in '81. Many contend he should've been the series MVP for his all-around play and clutch moments.

[swagga]

Spare us the BS that Bird played poorly just because he scored 8 points in those games. In fact, he only took 11 shots in each of those games, but his presence was felt everywhere else on the court.

Game 3 stat line includes:
- 13 rebounds (against a prime M. Malone, also led team)
- 10 assists (led both teams, his total equaled the 'entire' Rockets squad)
- 5 steals (led both teams)
- 3 blocks (led team)
- 44 minutes (led both teams)

Game 4 stat line includes:
- 12 rebounds
- 7 assists (led team)
- 3 steals (led team)
- 43 minutes (led team)

One the biggest myths on this forum, propagated by jlauber and select others, is that Bird had bad series against Houston in '81. Many contend he should've been the series MVP for his all-around play and clutch moments.

this board only does PPG. defense and other contributions are lost on these people, they'd rather have a 24/3/2 40% game on bad defense than a 10/8/9 40% on great defense, even though both performance contribute the same offensively(from a numeric standpoint) while performance B also guarantees more ball movement (thus other teammates get better options) or a a coaching tactic of denying bird/lebron/dr J the ball.

good effort tho :applause:

[ralph_i_el]

difficult operation for dirks father during the series. his father stayed at the intensive care unit the whole series

LeBron never had a dad....that probably evens out

[sd3035]

Lebald was battling personal demons with his hairline

[StephHamann]

LeBron never had a dad....that probably evens out

https://media.giphy.com/media/QxjDI7kfgrwju/giphy.gif

[choppermagic]

Spare us the BS that Bird played poorly just because he scored 8 points in those games. In fact, he only took 11 shots in each of those games, but his presence was felt everywhere else on the court.

Game 3 stat line includes:
- 13 rebounds (against a prime M. Malone, also led team)
- 10 assists (led both teams, his total equaled the 'entire' Rockets squad)
- 5 steals (led both teams)
- 3 blocks (led team)
- 44 minutes (led both teams)

Game 4 stat line includes:
- 12 rebounds
- 7 assists (led team)
- 3 steals (led team)
- 43 minutes (led team)

One the biggest myths on this forum, propagated by jlauber and select others, is that Bird had bad series against Houston in '81. Many contend he should've been the series MVP for his all-around play and clutch moments.


Exactly. Posters now adays like to isolate a single stat and treat that like it's the be-all and end all to judge players by. Context is important. Players who do the things that their team NEEDS to win are more important than those that value their own personal stats (like Lebron and efficiency) over the good of the team.

[swagga]

LeBron never had a dad....that probably evens out

Lebron had at least 2 superstar dads, can you imagine the pressure?

[Pointguard]

Is this true=
Don't really know. Never verified by any responsible press who would look it up and verify it. Nor were there people leaking to the press that they saw Dirk at the ICU during the playoffs. Still is possible.

[Town's Town]

difficult operation for dirks father during the series. his father stayed at the intensive care unit the whole series

The real issue was that Dirk was against his former coach of many years, who knew Dirk's weaknesses more than anybody and Dirk didn't have much time to adapt. Phil Jackson suddenly switching to another team would have been able to exploit Kobe's weaknesses in a way others have not, and Pop would be able to exploit Duncan.

[Town's Town]

LeBron never had a dad....that probably evens out
:lol

[pastis]

Don't really know. Never verified by any responsible press who would look it up and verify it. Nor were there people leaking to the press that they saw Dirk at the ICU during the playoffs. Still is possible.


here:
[QUOTE]
while the top-seeded Mavericks were getting shocked by Golden State in the first round of last spring's playoffs, the public never knew that Nowitzki's father, J

[IllegalD]

here:


he dont like to talk about that but talked a little bit in a german interview some years ago after the 2011 win


A real tough-minded player would have used the situation as motivation/fuel to turn in one of those epic playoff performances.

And if he had done that you and the rest of the Dirk Stanleys would be all over his dirk diggler and we would never hear the end of it. So I don't want to hear that now as an excuse for his choking and getting intimidated and defended by a much smaller Stephen Jackson.

[Lebronxrings]

lebron was focusing more on passing but okay lets bash him to fit the kobetard agenda.

[feyki]

Pastis ;

Thanks for sharing bro . Don't mind those kobetards .

[jstern]

If I remember correctly, Bird had good rebounding, and perhaps assist numbers. But basketball reference I guess doesn't keep track of that time.

[feyki]

If I remember correctly, Bird had good rebounding, and perhaps assist numbers. But basketball reference I guess doesn't keep track of that time.

Apbr does . top of the sites nba finals etc .. site .

[DMAVS41]

Don't really know. Never verified by any responsible press who would look it up and verify it. Nor were there people leaking to the press that they saw Dirk at the ICU during the playoffs. Still is possible.

You really think Dirk, his sister, and other reporters are making this up?

It doesn't change the fact that Dirk had a poor series overall and one of his few terrible elimination games in game 6, but that series really is overblown for a variety of reasons...and nobody seems to be able to say much other than something about stephen jackson or matt barnes...which is odd because Dirk has a tougher time scoring on players like that than bigger players...

1. The Warriors rosters was loaded and was a nightmare matchup for the Mavs

2. Avery Johnson is a bad coach and was terrible in that series

3. Dirk's off the court circumstances

4. Dirk's rumored injury in which everyone in Dallas at the time was talking about and worried about going into the playoffs

5. The simple fact that the Mavs roster wasn't that good

6. Through the 5 games...Dirk was at 22/12/2 54.3% TS...which is not great, but hardly terrible...especially considering the entire Warriors team was pretty much exclusively focused on stopping him...did so by doubling, playing in front and behind, playing very physical and fast...etc.

That series is why it's so important to have two reliable all nba type players for winning in the playoffs. You can't play like that and survive if the team you are playing has a legit 2nd guy that can take over games and win games on his own.

Too many players have played worse series than that and won because they had more help.

Now, doesn't change the simple fact that Dirk played like shit, but when it's a total one off series in terms of level of play in key games/moments...combined with the off court issues...I'd say it's quite overblown

[Pointguard]

You really think Dirk, his sister, and other reporters are making this up?
I think his father went thru something. He could have been in the ICU for one day. Things get foggy years later. The way its presented above he was in the ICU the whole series which highly increases the chances of a leak. But press people knowing something and not revealing it, is well stupid. If the family reveals it years later what's the problem with revealing it then. And the press people had everything to gain and very little to lose.



It doesn't change the fact that Dirk had a poor series overall and one of his few terrible elimination games in game 6, but that series really is overblown for a variety of reasons...and nobody seems to be able to say much other than something about stephen jackson or matt barnes...which is odd because Dirk has a tougher time scoring on players like that than bigger players...

1. The Warriors rosters was loaded and was a nightmare matchup for the Mavs

2. Avery Johnson is a bad coach and was terrible in that series

3. Dirk's off the court circumstances

4. Dirk's rumored injury in which everyone in Dallas at the time was talking about and worried about going into the playoffs

5. The simple fact that the Mavs roster wasn't that good

6. Through the 5 games...Dirk was at 22/12/2 54.3% TS...which is not great, but hardly terrible...especially considering the entire Warriors team was pretty much exclusively focused on stopping him...did so by doubling, playing in front and behind, playing very physical and fast...etc.

That series is why it's so important to have two reliable all nba type players for winning in the playoffs. You can't play like that and survive if the team you are playing has a legit 2nd guy that can take over games and win games on his own.

Too many players have played worse series than that and won because they had more help.

Now, doesn't change the simple fact that Dirk played like shit, but when it's a total one off series in terms of level of play in key games/moments...combined with the off court issues...I'd say it's quite overblown

I never hype one blown series unless somebody is being very irrational opposite me when they are talking about a bad series by other players. I prefer to say off their game or people not measuring what they were up against. You like to use the word horrible when you are talking about other players playing bad in a series, despite that player being much younger playing against a great defensive team and his second best player was at 14 ppg and 10 rpg 40%FG while being benched in two 4th quarter games.

As far as the second player... Howard was very good that series??? No? 21/10 51FG%.

[Optimus Prime]

LeBron never had a dad....that probably evens out

???

http://www.blackcelebkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/west.jpg

[DMAVS41]

I think his father went thru something. He could have been in the ICU for one day. Things get foggy years later. The way its presented above he was in the ICU the whole series which highly increases the chances of a leak. But press people knowing something and not revealing it, is well stupid. If the family reveals it years later what's the problem with revealing it then. And the press people had everything to gain and very little to lose.


I never hype one blown series unless somebody is being very irrational opposite me when they are talking about a bad series by other players. I prefer to say off their game or people not measuring what they were up against. You like to use the word horrible when you are talking about other players playing bad in a series, despite that player being much younger playing against a great defensive team and his second best player was at 14 ppg and 10 rpg 40%FG while being benched in two 4th quarter games.

As far as the second player... Howard was very good that series??? No? 21/10 51FG%.

Age isn't a factor in our discussions...as I have repeatedly said to you. Just like I've always said if you want to grade on an age curve, I'm totally cool with it, but then you lose the right to say a lot of the things you say. So you have to either pick...it's either just how good someone is...or how good someone is factoring in age. You can't flip flop back and forth on this as that is not only inconsistent, but tiresome to keep track of.

I have no problem with someone saying that it was a horrible series for Dirk. I just think too much is made of that series given the circumstances. Granted Dirk had such a stellar playoff career in terms of individual performance...it gets picked apart a lot more because there isn't much else to really attack broadly speaking.

Howard was alright in that series...given he had almost no defensive attention paid to him and his impact wasn't really ever felt on either end...it wasn't enough to off set Dirk having a poor series. A legit number 2 guy that can win a game or two on his own...and make the other team game plan for him...would be that difference. Howard/Terry type guys simply aren't that caliber of player. They are 3rd and 4th best guys on title teams type guys...in rare cases when you have an 11 Dirk, 03 Duncan, 94 Hakeem...etc. they could be 2nd/3rd guys, but that is very rare indeed.

I don't know the details of his father, don't pretend to, but living in Dallas you hear rumors...especially from some of the people I know...they tend to have teeth. And his sister bringing it up in that interview and then Dirk vaguely commenting on it, and reporters talking about it...is more than enough to confirm it's accuracy for me.

Now, whether he was on the verge of death and all that stuff...I don't know.

[Pointguard]

Age isn't a factor in our discussions...as I have repeatedly said to you. Just like I've always said if you want to grade on an age curve, I'm totally cool with it, but then you lose the right to say a lot of the things you say. So you have to either pick...it's either just how good someone is...or how good someone is factoring in age. You can't flip flop back and forth on this as that is not only inconsistent, but tiresome to keep track of.

I have no problem with someone saying that it was a horrible series for Dirk. I just think too much is made of that series given the circumstances. Granted Dirk had such a stellar playoff career in terms of individual performance...it gets picked apart a lot more because there isn't much else to really attack broadly speaking.

Age is a circumstance, I hope you know that. In what circumstance are you saying I flip flop? I have never said lets not factor in his age, that's simply false. And I'm sure you know it is.

On the "isn't much to really attack", the year before this discussion, Dirk was spotted two games and then was outscored by 14ppg in the finals by Wade.


Howard was alright in that series...given he had almost no defensive attention paid to him and his impact wasn't really ever felt on either end...it wasn't enough to off set Dirk having a poor series. A legit number 2 guy that can win a game or two on his own...and make the other team game plan for him...would be that difference. Howard/Terry type guys simply aren't that caliber of player. They are 3rd and 4th best guys on title teams type guys...in rare cases when you have an 11 Dirk, 03 Duncan, 94 Hakeem...etc. they could be 2nd/3rd guys, but that is very rare indeed.
We are not talking about a whole playoff run. We are talking about the first round against an 8 seed that gave up more points than any other team. 21/10 is good for your second best player who acted like the leader. Terry's play is adequate in the finals of '11 for a second best player and he was like a third or fourt best player on that team. Wasn't Terry like their best scorer in the 4th quarter that whole year. In the finals and in their wins, Terry was by far the most efficient player on the team which should automatically make him adequate as a number two being that he getting over 20ppg.