Donald Trump Vs The Pope

[NumberSix]

Yes. This is a real thing.



But Francis left little doubt where he stood on the polarizing issue of immigration reform.

"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not in the gospel," the Pope told journalists who asked his opinion on Trump's proposals to halt illegal immigration.


Trump immediately fired back on Thursday, calling Francis' comments "disgraceful."


"If and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS, which as everyone knows is ISIS's ultimate trophy, I can promise you that the Pope would have only wished and prayed that Donald Trump would have been president," Trump added.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/18/politics/pope-francis-trump-christian-wall/index.html

[Dresta]

I miss Ratzinger and his predecessor; twas nice having an intelligent Pope, rather than an idiot who goes around saying inane things like: "a person who thinks only about building walls... and not of building bridges, is not Christian"

I mean, really? Where does this guy live again?

[Nick Young]

AKA Donald Trump vs the man covering up an international child molester ring.

[BasedTom]

I miss Ratzinger and his predecessor; twas nice having an intelligent Pope, rather than an idiot who goes around saying inane things like: "a person who thinks only about building walls... and not of building bridges, is not Christian"

I mean, really? Where does this guy live again?
Benedict was a respected scholar, but of course all that the kiddies on the internet cared to see in him was "lololol he looks like darth sidious"

[DonDadda59]

The Donald is growing on me. Making it really hard to hate him. :yaohappy:

[Nick Young]

The Donald is growing on me. Making it really hard to hate him. :yaohappy:
that's been his plan all along.


Dude is about to pull a major face turn and drag a bunch of Dem voters a long with him.

[BoutPractice]

I love how Trump's angle is that it's somehow unprecedented for a Pope to question someone's faith... ever heard of excommunication?

With that said, once again, the man has cojones... life must be a pretty exhilarating journey for those with no sense of shame. I'm sure he's having a great time with all of this.

[9erempiree]

From another site....

Building a wall is not very Christian but meanwhile....
https://i.imgur.com/HCri5qa.jpg

[9erempiree]

Trump response....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cbg0_3rWEAEEA_O.png

[BasedTom]

I love how Trump's angle is that it's somehow unprecedented for a Pope to question someone's faith... ever heard of excommunication?

With that said, once again, the man has cojones... life must be a pretty exhilarating journey for those with no sense of shame. I'm sure he's having a great time with all of this.
what denomination is Trump?

Trump for President/acting Antipope? :lol

[9erempiree]

I've said it many times....Mexicans are outraged about immigration policy but Mexico has a bigger wall than we do in their south border. Their wall is very effective against Guatemalans but they don't want a wall from us?:lol

Also....in regards to the Vatican....

Pope Francis is more than head of the Catholic Church — he’s also the head of state of the Vatican, which as a government has possibly the most restrictive immigration and citizenship policies of any nation in the world.

The pope, traveling to the U.S. for the first time, has made a special appeal to Americans to welcome immigrants, using his address to a joint meeting of Congress Thursday to invoke the Golden Rule in demanding generosity toward the millions of Central and South Americans seeking to come to the country.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/24/pope-call-immigration-unlikely-change-debate/?page=all

The world is full of hypocrites.

Has Trump been a hypocrite?

[9erempiree]

The Donald is growing on me. Making it really hard to hate him. :yaohappy:

Welcome my American brother.

We are as one.

[DonDadda59]

Trump response....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cbg0_3rWEAEEA_O.png

This man is taking on whole countries, whole religions. We haven't seen anything like this since Tupac around 94-96.

The Donald for Emperor of the World. :bowdown:

[9erempiree]

He doesn't want walls but he is parading up in this 'pope mobile', yes, that is what they call it.

No man should be chosen to be worshiped by the people.

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/LY8kBsUaqsDVEivuoylwEg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW 5lO3B4b2ZmPTUwO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTY3MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/cc25e23394035b026b0f6a706700fd0b.jpg

[zoom17]

You can tell the pope said this to appeal to appeal to the mexican goverment that he's about to visit.

[ThePhantomCreep]

I've said it many times....Mexicans are outraged about immigration policy but Mexico has a bigger wall than we do in their south border. Their wall is very effective against Guatemalans but they don't want a wall from us?:lol

Also....in regards to the Vatican....



The world is full of hypocrites.

Has Trump been a hypocrite?

Is this a serious question? Read his manifesto anti-Mexico "they're ripping us off" tirade, then look at this:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/YA6EP0W.jpg

If the mainstream media had any balls, they'd ask Trump if he planned to tax himself 35% for outsourcing. But they won't.

[9erempiree]

Is this a serious question? Read his manifesto anti-Mexico "they're ripping us off" tirade, then look at this:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/YA6EP0W.jpg

If the mainstream media had any balls, they'd ask Trump if he planned to tax himself 35% for outsourcing. But they won't.

Trivial.

We're talking about domestic/foreign policies that have to do with national borders and security.

You're going to bring up a suit. :lol

[BasedTom]

trump going after that KKK protestant/evangelical vote

really this works out well for both parties

[Patrick Chewing]

Trump is trolling all of us. No one can be this disrespectful and out of touch.

[Nick Young]

Trump is trolling all of us. No one can be this disrespectful and out of touch.
Out of touch AKA winning the New Hampshire primaries and drawing 10k+ people to his rallies.

[9erempiree]

Trump is trolling all of us. No one can be this disrespectful and out of touch.

I know it feels like I always backup Trump but in this instance how can you not.

The pope is a religious figure and shouldn't be criticizing another person's faith.

I have sympathy for the little orphans that are pawned off to the Vatican.

[Nick Young]

The Pope is and always has been primarily a political figure.

[BasedTom]

The Pope is and always has been primarily a political figure.
You're a vehemently jewish anti-christian so it's not surprising that this is your belief.

[Patrick Chewing]

I know it feels like I always backup Trump but in this instance how can you not.

The pope is a religious figure and shouldn't be criticizing another person's faith.

I have sympathy for the little orphans that are pawned off to the Vatican.

Trump's comments weren't even on par with the Pope's. Take the high road, Donald. Have a little modicum of respect for the Pope's position and for the position you are applying for. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't voice his opinion on what the Pope said, but to paint this picture of ISIS attacking the Vatican while Trump saying "I told you so" in the background is rather unsettling and vitriolic.

[Nick Young]

You're a vehemently jewish anti-christian so it's not surprising that this is your belief.
LOL do you know anything about the history of the popes?

It seems like you don't.

Did you know anything about Pope Sergius III?
Pope Julius III?
Pope Paul III?
Pope Urban II?
Pope Alexander VI?

How can you claim to be a Christian when you don't even know your own religion's history?

[Nick Young]

Trump's comments weren't even on par with the Pope's. Take the high road, Donald. Have a little modicum of respect for the Pope's position and for the position you are applying for. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't voice his opinion on what the Pope said, but to paint this picture of ISIS attacking the Vatican while Trump saying "I told you so" in the background is rather unsettling and vitriolic.
The Pope's position deserves no respect.

[BasedTom]

LOL do you know anything about the history of the popes?

It seems like you don't.
Judging from your very first comment in this thread, it seems like you're the one who needs to read up on the long history of the Papacy. And by that I am suggesting an actual book, not a 3 minute youtube video or opinion segment on MSNBC.

[Nick Young]

Judging from your very first comment in this thread, it seems like you're the one who needs to read up on the long history of the Papacy. And by that I am suggesting an actual book, not a 3 minute youtube video or opinion segment on MSNBC.
So you don't know the history of the popes.

Thanks for proving my point breh:cheers:

[Dresta]

Benedict was a respected scholar, but of course all that the kiddies on the internet cared to see in him was "lololol he looks like darth sidious"
ha, i know, twas ridiculous. Man wasn't just learned, he was wise. Take this lecture he gave in 2005:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/cardinal-ratzinger-on-europe-s-crisis-of-culture.html

Very perceptive and intelligent, a thorough evisceration of the contradictions of the Enlightenment culture, and the modern attempts to reconcile said contradictions.

These parts, for example:


‘This Enlightenment culture is essentially defined by the rights of freedom; it stems from freedom as a fundamental value that measures everything: the freedom of religious choice, which includes the religious neutrality of the state; freedom to express one's own opinion, as long as it does not cast doubt specifically on this canon; the democratic ordering of the state, that is, parliamentary control on state organisms; the free formation of parties; the independence of the judiciary; and, finally, the safeguarding of the rights of man and the prohibition of discriminations. Here the canon is still in the process of formation, given that there are also rights of man that are in opposition, as for example, in the case of the conflict between a woman's desire for freedom and the right of the unborn to live.

The concept of discrimination is ever more extended, and so the prohibition of discrimination can be increasingly transformed into a limitation of the freedom of opinion and religious liberty. Very soon it will not be possible to state that homosexuality, as the Catholic Church teaches, is an objective disorder in the structuring of human existence. And the fact that the Church is convinced of not having the right to confer priestly ordination on women is considered by some up to now as something irreconcilable with the spirit of the European Constitution.

It is evident that this canon of the Enlightenment culture, less than definitive, contains important values which we, precisely as Christians, do not want and cannot renounce; however, it is also obvious that the ill-defined or undefined concept of freedom, which is at the base of this culture, inevitably entails contradictions; and it is obvious that precisely because of its use (a use that seems radical) it has implied limitations of freedom that a generation ago we could not even imagine. A confused ideology of freedom leads to dogmatism, which is showing itself increasingly hostile to freedom.’

‘It is true that the positivist philosophies contain important elements of truth. However, these are based on imposed limitations of reason, characteristic of a specific cultural situation that of the modern West and therefore not the last word of reason. Nevertheless though they might seem totally rational, they are not the voice of reason itself, but are also identified culturally with the present situation in the West.

For this reason they are in no way that philosophy which one day could be valid throughout the world. But, above all, it must be said that this Enlightenment philosophy, and its respective culture, is incomplete. It consciously severs its own historical roots depriving itself of the regenerating forces from which it sprang, from that fundamental memory of humanity, so to speak, without which reason loses its orientation.’

‘In fact, the principle is now valid, according to which, man's capacity is measured by his action. What one knows how to do, may also be done. There no longer exists a knowing how to do separated from a being able to do, because it would be against freedom, which is the absolute supreme value. But man knows how to do many things, and knows increasingly how to do more things; and if this knowing how to do does not find its measure in a moral norm, it becomes, as we can already see, a power of destruction.

Man knows how to clone men, and so he does it. Man knows how to use men as a store of organs for other men, and so he does it; he does it because this seems to be an exigency of his freedom. Man knows how to construct atomic bombs and so he makes them, being, in line of principle, also disposed to use them. In the end, terrorism is also based on this modality of man's self-authorization, and not on the teachings of the Koran.

The radical detachment of the Enlightenment philosophy from its roots becomes, in the last analysis, contempt for man. Man, deep down, has no freedom, we are told by the spokesmen of the natural sciences, in total contradiction with the starting point of the whole question. Man must not think that he is something more than all other living beings and, therefore, should also be treated like them, we are told by even the most advanced spokesmen of a philosophy clearly separated from the roots of humanity's historical memory.’

----

By stating this, one does not deny all that is positive and important of this philosophy, but one affirms rather its need to complete itself, its profound deficiency. And so we must again address the two controversial points of the Preamble of the European Constitution. The banishment of Christian roots does not reveal itself as the expression of a higher tolerance, which respects all cultures in the same way, not wishing to privilege any, but rather as the absolutizing of a pattern of thought and of life that are radically opposed, among other things, to the other historical cultures of humanity.

The real opposition that characterizes today's world is not that between various religious cultures, but that between the radical emancipation of man from God, from the roots of life, on one hand, and from the great religious cultures on the other. If there were to be a clash of cultures, it would not be because of a clash of the great religions which have always struggled against one another, but which, in the end, have also always known how to live with one another but it will be because of the clash between this radical emancipation of man and the great historical cultures.

Thus, even the rejection of the reference to God, is not the expression of a tolerance that desires to protect the non-theistic religions and the dignity of atheists and agnostics, but rather the expression of a conscience that would like to see God cancelled definitively from the public life of humanity, and relegated to the subjective realm of residual cultures of the past.

Relativism, which is the starting point of all this, thus becomes a dogmatism which believes itself to be in possession of the definitive scope of reason, and with the right to regard all the rest only as a stage of humanity, in the end surmounted, and that can be appropriately relativized. In reality, this means that we have need of roots to survive, and that we must not lose sight of God, if we do not want human dignity to disappear.

The whole thing is very interesting and insightful, clearly the product of an intelligent mind deeply concerned with the problems of man. But he looks evil doe...

:hammerhead:

[Nick Young]

ha, i know, twas ridiculous. Man wasn't just learned, he was wise. Take this lecture he gave in 2005:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/cardinal-ratzinger-on-europe-s-crisis-of-culture.html

Very perceptive and intelligent, a thorough evisceration of the contradictions of the Enlightenment culture, and the modern attempts to reconcile said contradictions.

These parts, for example:



The whole thing is very interesting and insightful, clearly the product of an intelligent mind deeply concerned with the problems of man. But he looks evil doe...

:hammerhead:
Benedict was one of the most pro-pedophelia popes out of the last 10 popes.

He dedicated his papacy to defending and absolving pedo priests.

What a 'wise' man.

[Terahite]

The Donald is growing on me. Making it really hard to hate him. :yaohappy:

https://m.popkey.co/6cbf33/kvpaw.gif

[Dresta]

*yawn*

Not that old chestnut. That pro-pedo who was the first to arrange the institutional means to tackle pedophilia in the church, and who was far more keen on doing so than his predecessor; there's really no evidence whatsoever for your accusations: they are based purely on hearsay.

[9erempiree]

The Vatican is the holder of the most stolen art work and gold taken from the Jews.

Hitler loved them and they love him

[FillJackson]

The Vatican is the holder of the most stolen art work and gold taken from the Jews.

Hitler loved them and they love him
Trump voter.

[Dresta]

The Vatican is the holder of the most stolen art work and gold taken from the Jews.

Hitler loved them and they love him
You know the pontiff during ww2 was directly responsible for the saving of more Jews than any other person, or agency, combined? Hollywood should really make a film, though i doubt they will.

It's really quite sad that due to intense anti-Christian bigotry, some people feel the need to tell lies about the behaviour of the Pope and of the Catholic Church during ww2; considering how terribly the Catholics were persecuted by the nazis, it's really quite disgraceful to try and pretend that they were on Hitler's side.

[Blue&Orange]

i mean right wings retards tell the pope to shut up when he tells there is more to life than money " Shut up Pope, leave our corporations alone, let Apple rank massive profits, pay no taxes and the workers that make iphones have a incredible high suicide rate, so high they have to sign contracts where it says they can't kill themselfs"

Right wings retards tell pope to shut up when he talks about climate change " Shut up pope, there's a overwhelming scientific consensus about climate change, we aren't nowhere near scientists and we can talk about it and deny it, but you pope that studied chemistry please don't side with 99% of scientist think and agree"

Trump vs Pope that's a non contest for retards.

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/files/2016/01/Two-Corinthians-Trump.jpg


**** up world is this where this idiots think they are Christians. I think their definition of Christianity is to talk about family values and against Mexicans, but only when their Mexican lover isn't butt.****ing them.

[rufuspaul]

As a Catholic I really like the current Pope, but he should save his rhetoric until after the election. Joining in the mud slinging now is like Obama telling the Cardinals who to elect when Benedict stepped down.

[NumberSix]

As a Catholic I really like the current Pope, but he should save his rhetoric until after the election. Joining in the mud slinging now is like Obama telling the Cardinals who to elect when Benedict stepped down.
You'd think the Pope would have some criticism for Fidel Castro, but apparently not.

It's also interesting that the Mexican government is openly advocating for illegal immigration to continue. You'd think they'd be like "oh yeah, a wall is fine. If it stops illegal immigration, that's great." But no. They openly demand that illegal immigration must be able to continue. Trump is right. They want to get rid of the people they don't want and let them be America's problem.

[longtime lurker]

Prime example of why Donald Trump isn't electable. The man isn't close to being presidential. He's a thin skinned man baby. You can't cut a WWE promo everytime someone says something bad about you. As far as the popes comments go they were pretty well measured.

[9erempiree]

Trump made the statements against the Pope yesterday morning.

During the CNN Town Hall Meeting....Anderson Cooper was trying to get him to say bad things about the Pope and Trump didn't bite.

As a matter of fact, he said he likes the Pope and respects him.

It's all good....it would have been a bad decision for the Pope to feud with the future President of the United States of the World.

[FillJackson]

You'd think the Pope would have some criticism for Fidel Castro, but apparently not.
You mean like he did when in Cuba?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/19/world/pope-cuba-open/

[FillJackson]

Also for those who claim that Vatican City is completely surrounded by walls should actually look at Vatican City

http://zann.blog.bg/photos/82473/original/zmiqta/8.jpg

http://www.puterea.ro/media/article/img620f/125/125915_1.jpg

[FillJackson]

It was designed to represent open arms. And yes, you can walk into St. Peter's square.

[HitandRun Reggie]

It was designed to represent open arms.

Are you suggesting that there are no fortification walls built around the Vatican that were meant to keep out invaders and the unwanted?

[FillJackson]

Are you suggesting that there are no fortification walls built around the Vatican that were meant to keep out invaders and the unwanted?No, I'm suggesting what I said.

[LikeMike]

So Trump's proof of getting along with foreign leaders is starting a feud with the Pope? :hammerhead:

[Trollsmasher]

Pope takes the L and backs down:applause:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/vatican-popes-dont-build-walls-singling-trump-37054618

Crowned by God not by the Church
As my power is divine

[Dresta]

No, I'm suggesting what I said.
Right, disingenuous drivel like always. You've evidently not been to the Vatican, because you can't just "stroll in" like you seem to be suggesting; security was tight even when i went 9 or 10 years ago, and there will only be more of it today, in the current climate.

The city is surrounded by huge walls, deliberately built to keep people out; no one is denying there is a door, through which people can gain entry; seriously, what utter rubbish you talk.

[Nick Young]

Pope takes the L and backs down:applause:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/vatican-popes-dont-build-walls-singling-trump-37054618

Crowned by God not by the Church
As my power is divine
pope best learn is place.

[FillJackson]

Right, disingenuous drivel like always. You've evidently not been to the Vatican, because you can't just "stroll in" like you seem to be suggesting; security was tight even when i went 9 or 10 years ago, and there will only be more of it today, in the current climate.

The city is surrounded by huge walls, deliberately built to keep people out; no one is denying there is a door, through which people can gain entry; seriously, what utter rubbish you talk.You certainly can stroll into Vatican city without going through a door.

You seem to be confusing certain buildings with Vatican City. You say the City is surrounded by huge walls. There are hugh walls between Vatican City and Rome except for the giant area where there are no walls like I pictured above and below.

http://www.airpano.com/files/Vatican/image2.jpg

[Terahite]

You certainly can stroll into Vatican city without going through a door.

You seem to be confusing certain buildings with Vatican City. You say the City is surrounded by huge walls. There are hugh walls between Vatican City and Rome except for the giant area where there are no walls like I pictured above and below.

http://www.airpano.com/files/Vatican/image2.jpg

Virtually every major city in Christendom for over a 1,000 years had a wall to keep invaders out. Whether the Vatican (which Dresta has visted and you have not) does or doesn't meet your criteria of "walled" is totally moot. The point is Catholics for millennia have built walls to keep out invaders. You seem to be missing the bigger picture here as usual. (And unlike the Pope's comments, nothing has been distorted in translation as far as your complete idiocy goes.)

[Nick Young]

Dumbass Pope lives in a walled city built by Christians, and claims it's unchristian to build walls:facepalm

[Nick Young]

Trump takes the W, the Pope takes the L


Score another for America:rockon:

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: Trump is right

[Terahite]

Pope coulda said "catch more flies with honey than vinegar " and your dumbasses would be talking about most effective way to catch actual flies

This story is on the front page of the New York Times so it's not ISH who's blowing it up.

However I'll pass your comments on to the Sulzberger family and the other media bosses.

[Dresta]

You certainly can stroll into Vatican city without going through a door.

You seem to be confusing certain buildings with Vatican City. You say the City is surrounded by huge walls. There are hugh walls between Vatican City and Rome except for the giant area where there are no walls like I pictured above and below.

http://www.airpano.com/files/Vatican/image2.jpg
lol, that is just a big open courtyard. You can't do anything there; to go anywhere else you have to pass some serious security, and pay money.

[NumberSix]

OMFG. This guy thinks St. Peter's square = Vatican City.

[dunksby]

Coming from lunatics who exhume and put dead people on display 40 years after their death like a freak show:

http://www.thecatholictravelguide.com/Closeup_incorrupt_body_padre_pio.jpg

[Terahite]

Coming from lunatics who exhume and put dead people on display 40 years after their death like a freak show:

http://www.thecatholictravelguide.com/Closeup_incorrupt_body_padre_pio.jpg

By "lunatics" do you mean the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics? and by "dead people" do you mean incorruptible saints? I'm on Trump's side but don't be such a bigoted little shit.

[FillJackson]

OMFG. This guy thinks St. Peter's square = Vatican City.

No. I don't think Central Park = New York City either. :wtf:

Are you claiming St. Peter's Square is not within Vatican City?

http://learnlearn.net/Historie,religion,kunst/res/Default/ESS_PasteBitmap011421.png

You're 100% percent wrong here, do you understand that?

[NumberSix]

No. I don't think Central Park = New York City either. :wtf:

Are you claiming St. Peter's Square is not within Vatican City?
No.

You're 100% percent wrong here, do you understand that?
No, I'm not because I never claimed that.

[zoom17]

Who is FillJackson dude wasn't posting a few months ago now all of a sudden he's posting 50-60 times a day.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Is someone seriously arguing that the Vatican doesn't have walls? Go to Italy. God damn farming towns have walls. Everything in Italy has walls. It was all built over 500 years ago.

[FillJackson]

No.

No, I'm not because I never claimed that.
So what could this possibility mean


OMFG. This guy thinks St. Peter's square = Vatican City.

[NumberSix]

So what could this possibility mean
What did you mean by...

No. I don't think Central Park = New York City either. :wtf:

Are you saying Central Park isn't part of New York City? Why are you pretending to not understand this?

[FillJackson]

What did you mean by...

Are you saying Central Park isn't part of New York City? Why are you pretending to not understand this?
I am saying that when you are in Central Park you are in New York City.

Just as when you are in St. Peter's Square you are within the sovereign country of Vatican City.

[Terahite]

Is someone seriously arguing that the Vatican doesn't have walls? Go to Italy. God damn farming towns have walls. Everything in Italy has walls. It was all built over 500 years ago.

Thick post :applause:

[Smook B]

https://i.gyazo.com/1457cf08472282d95db04c361ec2096d.gif

[NumberSix]

I am saying that when you are in Central Park you are in New York City.
No you aren't.

You said that you DON'T think Central Park = New York City.

[FillJackson]

No you aren't.

You said that you DON'T think Central Park = New York City.
You're drunk tonight. Yes, you can be in New York City and not be in Central Park because they are not equal.

My point was You can merely walk from Italian territory right into Vatican City territory and you don't have to pass through a wall or a gate. When you cross the border, you just step over a white line painted on the ground. This is because Vatican City is not completely surrounded by walls and includes a big wide open space on the edge of St. Peter's Square that was deliberately designed to be left open to let people walk in.

[Dresta]

You're drunk tonight. Yes, you can be in New York City and not be in Central Park because they are not equal.

My point was You can merely walk from Italian territory right into Vatican City territory and you don't have to pass through a wall or a gate. When you cross the border, you just step over a white line painted on the ground. This is because Vatican City is not completely surrounded by walls and includes a big wide open space on the edge of St. Peter's Square that was deliberately designed to be left open to let people walk in.
It is completely surrounded by walls. You're being either really pedantic or really stubborn, or both.

[dunksby]

By "lunatics" do you mean the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics? and by "dead people" do you mean incorruptible saints? I'm on Trump's side but don't be such a bigoted little shit.
Gullible ****** :roll: