Let's talk about White Flight

[UK2K]

How do you prevent it? The truth is, when more and more whites leave the cities, so too do the taxpayers. You want to talk about ghettos? The ghettos came about because whites wanted to get out of the shit and into nice areas. The problem with that is, the more taxpayers that move out, the less money there is to go around.

As a result, you have degrading schools and failing infrastructure. Business will move away, and the lack of jobs leads to higher crime, which pushes more whites out of the cities.

So what is the answer? Obama has proposed his Affordable Housing plan which basically allows the HUD to hold federal grant money and use that money to build shit houses in wealthy, white neighborhoods. Does that solve anything?

The question is, how do you keep the taxpayers in the cities, short of holding a gun to their heads? I have this feeling that the inner-cities of Detroit, St. Louis, Memphis, Baltimore, Chicago, New Orleans, etc. will be more or less a health hazard to live in at some point in the next 50 years. Crumbling buildings, crime, unsanitary water... the cities need taxpayers to pay for those things. Now that the cash cows are gone, how do you keep the lights on? Detroit has already had their street lights re-possessed by the power company. That's only the beginning though, I think.

[TheSilentKiller]

How do you prevent it? The truth is, when more and more whites leave the cities, so too do the taxpayers. You want to talk about ghettos? The ghettos came about because whites wanted to get out of the shit and into nice areas. The problem with that is, the more taxpayers that move out, the less money there is to go around.

As a result, you have degrading schools and failing infrastructure. Business will move away, and the lack of jobs leads to higher crime, which pushes more whites out of the cities.

So what is the answer? Obama has proposed his Affordable Housing plan which basically allows the HUD to hold federal grant money and use that money to build shit houses in wealthy, white neighborhoods. Does that solve anything?

The question is, how do you keep the taxpayers in the cities, short of holding a gun to their heads? I have this feeling that the inner-cities of Detroit, St. Louis, Memphis, Baltimore, Chicago, New Orleans, etc. will be more or less a health hazard to live in at some point in the next 50 years.
some revisionist history ay? the ghettos came about because white landowners refused to lease / rent / sell property to blacks outside of innercity neighborhoods.

Best way to fix these cities is to go back in time and rewrite 50 years of institutional racism

[JohnnySic]

This isn't 1960. There are tons of white yuppies reclaiming cities, driving up home costs and pushing minorities out. Reverse white-flight. :oldlol:

The new white flight is whites leaving states that have become too diverse (like California) and moving to whiter states (like the rectangle states Colorado, Wyoming, etc.).

[~primetime~]

This isn't 1960. There are tons of white yuppies reclaiming cities, driving up home costs and pushing minorities out. Reverse white-flight. :oldlol:

The new white flight is whites leaving states that have become too diverse (like California) and moving to whiter states (like the rectangle states Colorado, Wyoming, etc.).
you're talking about gentrification

which I only hear is big in NYC...I'm not hearing about that in other cities

[DeuceWallaces]

some revisionist history ay? the ghettos came about because white landowners refused to lease / rent / sell property to blacks outside of innercity neighborhoods.

Best way to fix these cities is to go back in time and rewrite 50 years of institutional racism

Yeah, that is a terribly inaccurate and misinformed account of civil rights era white flight in major urban areas.

The easiest way is to implement urban growth boundaries and prevent suburban municipalities through central city annexation of suburbs to keep a centralized tax base for infrastructure, schools, etc.

[JohnnySic]

you're talking about gentrification

which I only hear is big in NYC...I'm not hearing about that in other cities
Well I live in Boston and gentrification has hijacked most of the city. I'm sure its happened in many places.

[ThePhantomCreep]

"The ghettos came about because whites wanted to get out of the shit and into nice areas."

Some would say inner-city neighborhoods turned to shit because Whites wanted to get away from Blacks. Those who were left behind had to live in dense urban environments with precious little resources, grinding poverty, and little chance of moving out. Hardly a recipe for success.

Incidentally, our major cities are experiencing a reverse White Flight these days--Millennials aren't nearly as hung up on race as previous generations (though you'd never know it reading this board):


Among the 50 largest cities in the U.S., nearly half gained a statistically significant number of whites from 2010-2014 (the change isn't significant in 21 of these 50 cities). Just 5 lost whites. That's compared to 35 cities where the white population shrank in the 2000s, and 31 in the 1990s. In Detroit, New Orleans, Washington and Denver, the white share of the population also rose over this same time.

You read that correctly folks--the White population in Detroit grew between 2010-2014.

[DeuceWallaces]

you're talking about gentrification

which I only hear is big in NYC...I'm not hearing about that in other cities

Are you being serious?

[~primetime~]

Are you being serious?
I just said I'm not hearing about that in other cities...didn't say it wasn't happening

k f@ggit?

[ALBballer]

This isn't 1960. There are tons of white yuppies reclaiming cities, driving up home costs and pushing minorities out. Reverse white-flight. :oldlol:

The new white flight is whites leaving states that have become too diverse (like California) and moving to whiter states (like the rectangle states Colorado, Wyoming, etc.).

Sure gentrification prices out many minorities but the minorities that are landowners actual benefit the most.




You read that correctly folks--the White population in Detroit grew between 2010-2014.

Yeah from what I have seen the yuppies live near the detroit river in these lavish high rises. But travel a mile north and you can find homes for $10k.

[TheSilentKiller]

Yeah from what I have seen the yuppies live near the detroit river in these lavish high rises. But travel a mile north and you can find homes for $10k.
yeah, same in st louis. You've got neighborhoods by forest park and washu with 750k+ homes, but walk a couple blocks and you're at rundown abandoned buildings and super inexpensive housing.

[~primetime~]

The upper class next door to the poor can probably be found in just about every major metro area I think.

[ALBballer]

The upper class next door to the poor can probably be found in just about every major metro area I think.

True but gentrification usually involves people (stereotypically students, artists, etc) priced out of the expensive part of the city and moving to areas close to the city where the poor tend to live.

But my point is Detroit doesn't seem that gentrified. It seems like the yuppies moved to one piece of Detroit near the river and I don't see that city ever being fully gentrified because it's still too much of a shithole.

[~primetime~]

True but gentrification usually involves people (stereotypically students, artists, etc) priced out of the expensive part of the city and moving to areas close to the city where the poor tend to live.

But my point is Detroit doesn't seem that gentrified. It seems like the yuppies moved to one piece of Detroit near the river and I don't see that city ever being fully gentrified because it's still too much of a shithole.
from quick googling around it looks like gentrification is somewhat rare and has only big a 'big deal' in a handful of cities...NYC, Boston, DC, Seattle, San Fran, and Chicago.

looks like it's harm to the poor that were once there is debatable too...

Seems like a great thing to happen to a city to me :confusedshrug: ...this is what has happened to NYC over the years:

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/epr/02v08n2/0211bram/images/haucht4.gif

[DeuceWallaces]

I just said I'm not hearing about that in other cities...didn't say it wasn't happening

k f@ggit?

Lol, so you were serious. I should have figured as much. I honestly thought you were joking. :lol

[ROCSteady]

you're talking about gentrification

which I only hear is big in NYC...I'm not hearing about that in other cities

:facepalm

[~primetime~]

yeah, okay it's happening in some other cities...lol


it still looks to be rare occurrence on a large scale though

you live in DC and that looks to be one of the few places highly effected

[ALBballer]

from quick googling around it looks like gentrification is somewhat rare and has only big a 'big deal' in a handful of cities...NYC, Boston, DC, Seattle, San Fran, and Chicago.

looks like it's harm to the poor that were once there is debatable too...

Seems like a great thing to happen to a city to me :confusedshrug: ...this is what has happened to NYC over the years:

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/epr/02v08n2/0211bram/images/haucht4.gif

It's more than a handful of cities...

Yeah there are definitely positives to "gentrifications" but anytime where some minorities or poor whites are being displaced by evil "white" people there will be a negative connotations attached to it.

[DeuceWallaces]

Just stop talking. I can't believe you're being serious.

[~primetime~]

Just stop talking. I can't believe you're being serious.
Oh STFU

many don't even know wtf gentrification is ffs

stop acting like it's common knowledge...

[~primetime~]

It's more than a handful of cities...

Yeah there are definitely positives to "gentrifications" but anytime where some minorities or poor whites are being displaced by evil "white" people there will be a negative connotations attached to it.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/01/the_gentrification_myth_it_s_rare_and_not_as_bad_f or_the_poor_as_people.html

[DeuceWallaces]

Anyway, no point arguing with PT about urban sociology.

If anyone is actually interested in white flight they should read:

American Apartheid (http://www.amazon.com/American-Apartheid-Segregation-Making-Underclass/dp/0674018214/ref=pd_sim_14_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1P0M7CEGDE0PM5D1ZKMY), The Origins of the Urban Crisis (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691162557/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1611860660&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1D91BYXTXC0STHZ9Z1N9), or Crabgrass Frontier (http://www.amazon.com/Crabgrass-Frontier-Suburbanization-United-States/dp/0195049837/ref=pd_sim_14_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1P0M7CEGDE0PM5D1ZKMY). They're all excellent books on the topic.

[senelcoolidge]

Where I live there are some neighborhoods that you can tell were once decent. But the white people moved out. The minorities moved in and just didn't take care of anything. There's a neighborhood not that far from where I live where there are so many houses, decent looking houses, but the people there don't care. It's such a waste. At least have some freaking pride. They rather hike crime than maintain what really would be a nice place to live in. I bet the homes in that area are cheap, big houses..but people there rather sell drugs and kill each other. Such a waste.
Like someone told me you know how to tell a black home from a white home..the grass on the front lawn.

[~primetime~]

you never presented an argument unless "u serious"? is an argument

[blablabla]

Sure gentrification prices out many minorities but the minorities that are landowners actual benefit the most.



Do they? Aren't they also being forced out because of the increasing property tax which they can't afford ?

[ALBballer]

Do they? Aren't they also being forced out because of the increasing property tax which they can't afford ?

That would depend on the city since property taxes are run on a local level. In California for example this shouldn't be the case since property taxes are 1% of the sale price with limited raises each year.

[9erempiree]

from quick googling around it looks like gentrification is somewhat rare and has only big a 'big deal' in a handful of cities...NYC, Boston, DC, Seattle, San Fran, and Chicago.

looks like it's harm to the poor that were once there is debatable too...

Seems like a great thing to happen to a city to me :confusedshrug: ...this is what has happened to NYC over the years:

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/epr/02v08n2/0211bram/images/haucht4.gif

Glad you brought this up.

Giuliani and Trump spearheaded the new movement at the time and cleaned up New York City.

[Jailblazers7]

There is some interesting analysis out there showing that gentrification is pushing poor people out to the suburbs which will turn into a big problem. Concentrated poverty without the benefits of the downtown transportation and social infrastructure.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Glad you brought this up.

Giuliani and Trump spearheaded the new movement at the time and cleaned up New York City.

Trump? :roll:

How long before 9erempiree gives the "you're fired" guy credit for the polio vaccine? You know it's coming. :facepalm

The drop in crime in the mid-90s was part of a nationwide trend. Giuliani's policies had little to do with it.

[nathanjizzle]

theres a thing happening in chicago called gentrification where young white people are pushing out the lower income ethnic people from their neighborhoods because geographically it is attractive due to its proximity to the metro area.

[theballerFKA Ace]

theres a thing happening in chicago called gentrification where young white people are pushing out the lower income ethnic people from their neighborhoods because geographically it is attractive due to its proximity to the metro area.

It's happening here in LA. Silverlake and Echo Park to an extent, used to be latino barrios rife with gang problems, now they are becoming hip areas with lots of young professionals moving in, and pushing the poor further out.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Just stop talking. I can't believe you're being serious.

You are such a fahgit :lol

[HeatFanSince88]

There isn't a single city in the world with a black majority that is a nice place to live.

Unless a black person hits the lottery via a pro sports career, or some other kind of entertainment (Both of these things are crapshoots), they dont have a function in modern society. Even with affirmative action trying to push them in every field requiring lower qualifications, none of them become engineers, computer scientists, tradesman, etc.

Unless black male hits the sports lottery, he turns to drugs, and crime.
Black females just have kids(With no father in the picture) and go on welfare continuing the cycle.

something needs to be done about these people. whether it be reeducating them, getting rid of them, or what, but with the current way of things it's a huge percentage of the population that is doing nothing but draining the potential of the country they inhabit. just think about how much better the overall status of the country would be. the only thing that might suffer would be the NBA entertainment product, but a small price to pay for greatness.

[KyrieTheFuture]

you're talking about gentrification

which I only hear is big in NYC...I'm not hearing about that in other cities
It's in literally every major city

[~primetime~]

It's in literally every major city

I promise I wasn't trying to insinuate that it is exclusive to NY, I was just saying that NY is the only city I have personally heard about gentrification happening in a large scale. But apparently there are a few others.

I've read up some... And it IS rare, here is data on gentrification in every city (some 0% btw, so no not literally every major city) .

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/census/gentrification-in-cities-governing-report.html

From that site:
Gentrification still remains rare nationally, with only 8 percent of all neighborhoods reviewed experiencing gentrification since the 2000 Census.

[Nanners]

portland has been gentrifying like crazy lately, but I think that trend is going to reverse within the next 10 years or so if the city doesnt do anything about the issues with mass homelessness in the city center.

[~primetime~]

Yeah Portland #1 on that list, 58% gentrified

So white lol



Let me say this too, after reading up on both White flight and gentrification, I just can't help but to feel that whites are in a no win situation here. In white flight whites are seen by many as being racist, and in gentrification it's those evil white people taking over. The only option for white people is to never move.

[Nanners]

Yeah Portland #1 on that list, 58% gentrified

So white lol



Let me say this too, after reading up on both White flight and gentrification, I just can't help but to feel that whites are in a no win situation here. In white flight whites are seen by many as being racist, and in gentrification it's those evil white people taking over. The only option for white people is to never move.

portland is so white in general that race is a non-issue here, its really just about economics - rich white californian transplants vs poor white oregonian natives lol

[thefatmiral]

It's all economics. Especially on relation to location of jobs. It makes not much sense for white families or any affluent groups to stay in the downtown or inner city areas. There are no jobs in these areas.

[Ass Dan]

How do you prevent it? The truth is, when more and more whites leave the cities, so too do the taxpayers. You want to talk about ghettos? The ghettos came about because whites wanted to get out of the shit and into nice areas. The problem with that is, the more taxpayers that move out, the less money there is to go around.

As a result, you have degrading schools and failing infrastructure. Business will move away, and the lack of jobs leads to higher crime, which pushes more whites out of the cities.

So what is the answer? Obama has proposed his Affordable Housing plan which basically allows the HUD to hold federal grant money and use that money to build shit houses in wealthy, white neighborhoods. Does that solve anything?

The question is, how do you keep the taxpayers in the cities, short of holding a gun to their heads? I have this feeling that the inner-cities of Detroit, St. Louis, Memphis, Baltimore, Chicago, New Orleans, etc. will be more or less a health hazard to live in at some point in the next 50 years. Crumbling buildings, crime, unsanitary water... the cities need taxpayers to pay for those things. Now that the cash cows are gone, how do you keep the lights on? Detroit has already had their street lights re-possessed by the power company. That's only the beginning though, I think.

What half assed hillbilly burrough do you live in.

In REAL cities gentrification happens and poor people get bought the f*ck out.

[embersyc]

Detroit's been on the comeback path for a while. It's slow, but the WSU area, and some downtown regions have seen an influx of higher income people. High end restaurants are popping up every where too, from Eastern Market to Corktown.

In Detroit a lot of those old neighborhoods though are completely abandoned. If you drive through Detroit you will find many neighborhoods with only 1 or 2 houses on the entire block. Sometimes the abandoned houses were demolished years ago and nothing was rebuilt in it's place. Sometimes the abandoned houses are burnt down and still standing, but a lot of those old neighborhoods don't have many people left, black or white.

It doesn't make much for a developer to see they can cheaply buy up an entire neighborhood and convert it into a place where people might actually want to live.

[NumberSix]

theres a thing happening in chicago called gentrification where young white people are pushing out the lower income ethnic people from their neighborhoods because geographically it is attractive due to its proximity to the metro area.
What do you mean "pushing out"?

[UK2K]

What half assed hillbilly burrough do you live in.

In REAL cities gentrification happens and poor people get bought the f*ck out.
Indianapolis. Before that, Houston. Your typical hillbilly burroughs.

I've seen that too. The area downtown Houston, that's north of the bayou, used to be poor blacks. Then they raised the property taxes (land is valuable downtown) and all the poor had to move out. Hippie people live there now.

[DeuceWallaces]

Detroit's been on the comeback path for a while. It's slow, but the WSU area, and some downtown regions have seen an influx of higher income people. High end restaurants are popping up every where too, from Eastern Market to Corktown.

In Detroit a lot of those old neighborhoods though are completely abandoned. If you drive through Detroit you will find many neighborhoods with only 1 or 2 houses on the entire block. Sometimes the abandoned houses were demolished years ago and nothing was rebuilt in it's place. Sometimes the abandoned houses are burnt down and still standing, but a lot of those old neighborhoods don't have many people left, black or white.

It doesn't make much for a developer to see they can cheaply buy up an entire neighborhood and convert it into a place where people might actually want to live.

Yeah, Detroit is still not a city for random walking around and tourism, but anyone who remembers it from the late 80's and see's it now; there's no comparison. A huge comeback. The problem is, pretty much everyone who posts about Detroit has never even been there. Even for a 2 day conference or ballgame, let alone long enough to see all the neighborhoods and some of the suburbs.

[Dresta]

An important development is also how we encourage wealthy foreigners (particularly the Chinese) to buy up property here to push prices up, and help boost the GDP stat, which makes housing even more unaffordable for Americans.

Same thing has been happening in London for years, where the government works tooth and nail to let foreign criminals use their expropriated wealth to buy most of Central London. Good for people with property, terrible for people without. My mother's house has increased about 400% in value since bought it in 2001 or so.

Just another problem caused by our obsession with that idiotic stat.