Miami is essentially better with Dragic and role players

[masonanddixon]

No Bosh, No Wade, No Whiteside, No problem. Goran puts up 17, 10, and 5 on Atlanta.

[Im Still Ballin]

At the age of nineteen
He became the Macedon King
And he swore to free all of Asia Minor
By the Aegian Sea
In 334 B.C.
He utterly beat the armies of Persia!!

[masonanddixon]

At the age of nineteen
He became the Macedon King
And he swore to free all of Asia Minor
By the Aegian Sea
In 334 B.C.
He utterly beat the armies of Persia!!

This is excellent.

[RRR3]

Shut the **** up you racist troll.

Can't wait till the Heat get rid of Tragic and we don't have to deal with this moron in game threads.

[Akhenaten]

Dont you mean Deng and roleplayers?

[Uncle Drew]

Deng put on an Akeem-like show. 30/11. :bowdown:

[Uncle Drew]

Meanwhile, Dragic was chucking his way to an abysmal 6-14 effort.

[Uncle Drew]

Dragic gets paid nearly $15 million for 12/5/3.

[Hey Yo]

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 2 hours ago
Heat are now 13-3 in games that both Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade are out

[Hey Yo]

Deng put on an Akeem-like show. 30/11. :bowdown:
ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 1 hour ago
Longest time between 30 pt/10 rbd games
Walter Davis: 12 yrs, 286 days
Grant Hill: 10 yrs, 261 days
Luol Deng: 8 yrs, 361 days

[BasedTom]

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 2 hours ago
Heat are now 13-3 in games that both Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade are out
That definitely has to include a bigger timespan than just this season. Bosh missed his first game last night and Wade his fourth.

[Hey Yo]

That definitely has to include a bigger timespan than just this season. Bosh missed his first game last night and Wade his fourth.
Was thinking the same thing but didn't feel like looking it up.

It's prob. combined with last season.

[Duderonomy]

The Heat are far enough in the standings that barring a meltdown they will make the playoffs with or without Bosh. Finally we might get A Cavs/Heat matchup.

[smoovegittar]

Jefferson Davis 0/1

[GrapeApe]

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 2 hours ago
Heat are now 13-3 in games that both Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade are out

Bosh has only missed 1 game this season and Wade only 4. Wade's brilliant play at the end of the Heat's brutal road trip basically saved the season, and Whiteside missed 5 of those games. He's been the most clutch SG in the league this season. Bosh has also been great down the stretch of games.

For the Heat to have any chance of making a deep playoff run they obviously need both of those guys. A lot of teams have suprpisingly good records without their stars in the regular season. Winning a playoff series is a completely different matter. Any chance the Heat have of making noise in the playoffs is dependent on Bosh being able to return.

McRoberts was the key last night. He is such a uniquely skilled player when he's actually healthy. He reminds me a bit of Lamar Odom in terms of being a 6'9-6'10 player with great playmaking ability.

[Papaya Petee]

Dragic was the 4th best player behind Deng, McBob, and Winslow :roll:

[Black and White]

They played the Hawks......

[Dresta]

OP is seriously retarded, or does he expect Deng to put up 30/11 with 4 steals and 11-17 shooting every game? How about McBob putting up 19/6/10 on 8-13 shooting is just 30 minutes.

Those are not the numbers of "role players"--if they had games like that consistently they'd both be all stars, and much better than Dragic.

[masonanddixon]

OP is seriously retarded, or does he expect Deng to put up 30/11 with 4 steals and 11-17 shooting every game? How about McBob putting up 19/6/10 on 8-13 shooting is just 30 minutes.

Those are not the numbers of "role players"--if they had games like that consistently they'd both be all stars, and much better than Dragic.

No you're the moron. Do you think it's some coincidence that they all played better with Dragic running the show? Or do you have no concept of spacing?

[Tking714]

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 1 hour ago
Longest time between 30 pt/10 rbd games
Walter Davis: 12 yrs, 286 days
Grant Hill: 10 yrs, 261 days
Luol Deng: 8 yrs, 361 days

what does this even mean??

[Dresta]

What has spacing got to do with it? Bosh is Miami's best 3 point shooter. Miami blew Atlanta out the last time they played them, with Bosh and Wade playing.

McBob has ben injured most of the season, and Deng looks better at PF than SF. You really aren't making any sense, like, at all.

Two guys have their best games of the season: "it's because of Dragic"

:facepalm

If we're going to draw conclusions from that single game than McBob and Deng>>>>>>>>Dragic.

[masonanddixon]

What has spacing got to do with it? Bosh is Miami's best 3 point shooter. Miami blew Atlanta out the last time they played them, with Bosh and Wade playing.

McBob has ben injured most of the season, and Deng looks better at PF than SF. You really aren't making any sense, like, at all.

Two guys have their best games of the season: "it's because of Dragic"

:facepalm

If we're going to draw conclusions from that single game than McBob and Deng>>>>>>>>Dragic.

Have you ever played basketball before? Wade and Bosh are both ball stoppers. When it's Dragic running the show everyone gets wide open looks and wide open lanes.

Just like right now. Oh and Dragic is also turning Wall into his bitch right now.

[BasedTom]

Have you ever played basketball before? Wade and Bosh are both ball stoppers. When it's Dragic running the show everyone gets wide open looks and wide open lanes.

Just like right now. Oh and Dragic is also turning Wall into his bitch right now.
There tends to be more of this out on the fastbreak (pretty much the main aspect of the game where Dragic has been effective) compared to the half-court offense.

It isn't a mythical 'Dragic Effect.'

[masonanddixon]

There tends to be more of this out on the fastbreak (pretty much the main aspect of the game where Dragic has been effective) compared to the half-court offense.

It isn't a mythical 'Dragic Effect.'

They were very good last season as well with Wade and Bosh out...

[DaSeba5]

That's because they stop playing "Let's watch Wade and Bosh do everything ball." They actually play fast and move the ball.

[Uncle Drew]

They were very good last season as well with Wade and Bosh out...
Without Wade: 9-11
Without Bosh: 18-20
Without Dragic: 3-1

[masonanddixon]

That's because they stop playing "Let's watch Wade and Bosh do everything ball." They actually play fast and move the ball.

THIS.

[Dresta]

Without Wade: 9-11
Without Bosh: 18-20
Without Dragic: 3-1
:lol

[Wade's Rings]

Wade and Bosh are both ball stoppers.

Time of Possession

Dragic: 6.3
Wade: 3.9

Average second per touch

Dragic: 4.75
Wade: 3.97

Average Dribble per touch

Dragic: 5.02
Wade: 3.4

Points per touch

Dragic: .154
Wade: .316

Dragic has the ball in his hands way more than Wade but Wade scores twice as much as him.

[Dresta]

Time of Possession

Dragic: 6.3
Wade: 3.9

Average second per touch

Dragic: 4.75
Wade: 3.97

Average Dribble per touch

Dragic: 5.02
Wade: 3.4

Points per touch

Dragic: .154
Wade: .316

Dragic has the ball in his hands way more than Wade but Wade scores twice as much as him.
:roll:


Racist moron gets buried.

[Akhenaten]

Time of Possession

Dragic: 6.3
Wade: 3.9

Average second per touch

Dragic: 4.75
Wade: 3.97

Average Dribble per touch

Dragic: 5.02
Wade: 3.4

Points per touch

Dragic: .154
Wade: .316

Dragic has the ball in his hands way more than Wade but Wade scores twice as much as him.

http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/images/ether.jpg

roasted that boy

[masonanddixon]

http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/images/ether.jpg

roasted that boy

Thats the biggest load of disingenuous shit

[r0drig0lac]

Dragic is a role player

[Wade's Rings]

Thats the biggest load of disingenuous shit

You claim Wade is a ball stopper but Dragic has the ball in his hands more, Dragic holds the ball more per touch, and Dragic dribbles more than Wade.

Dragic is the true ball stopper.

[Dresta]

Thats the biggest load of disingenuous shit
They're facts.

And guess what? You haven't got any.

[masonanddixon]

They're facts.

And guess what? You haven't got any.

Those aren't facts. Those are statistics. A very clear distinction.

Marx would be ashamed and disgusted that such an idiot is appropriating his image.

[Akhenaten]

Deng and Whiteside carried us tonight, Mcbob was sterling also.

[Dresta]

Statistics that factually show that Dragic has the ball in his hands far more often than Wade does (the 12th most in the entire league, in fact); he just doesn't do very much with the ball when he's got it.

Marx was a wannabe prophet, and not much of a thinker, so i don't care what he would think about my 'appropriating his image' (whatever that means; i don't think you know what the word appropriate means tbh: Marx is dead and doesn't own any images of himself to be appropriated).

[masonanddixon]

Statistics that factually show that Dragic has the ball in his hands far more often than Wade does (the 12th most in the entire league, in fact); he just doesn't do very much with the ball when he's got it.

Marx was a wannabe prophet, and not much of a thinker, so i don't care what he would think about my 'appropriating his image' (whatever that means; i don't think you know what the word appropriate means tbh: Marx is dead and doesn't own any images of himself to be appropriated).

Wait a second...you mean a point guard has the ball in his hands? Holy shit, what a revelation.

The problem is your statistics take into no account anything that happens on the floor.

[Dresta]

You mean like Dragic dribbling the ball for a bunch of seconds, doing nothing, and then passing it off to someone else? No one is stopping Dragic from being more aggressive except Dragic; and if anyone is making Miami play at a slow pace, it is Bosh (check Miami's pace last season before and after he went down).

It would also help if Dragic could shoot, something he hasn't managed to do even without Wade and Bosh in the line-up.

[masonanddixon]

You mean like Dragic dribbling the ball for a bunch of seconds, doing nothing, and then passing it off to someone else? No one is stopping Dragic from being more aggressive except Dragic; and if anyone is making Miami play at a slow pace, it is Bosh (check Miami's pace last season before and after he went down).

It would also help if Dragic could shoot, something he hasn't managed to do even without Wade and Bosh in the line-up.

Do you consider shit like spacing and the fact he plays alongside a guard (Wade) who has a serious deficiency in his ability to shoot anything past 10 feet now?

And by the way, hilarious that you're bashing Marx. You probably haven't read two pages of Das Kapital.

[Dresta]

Do you consider shit like spacing and the fact he plays alongside a guard (Wade) who has a serious deficiency in his ability to shoot anything past 10 feet now?

And by the way, hilarious that you're bashing Marx. You probably haven't read two pages of Das Kapital.
Yeah, I have actually. I've also read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Currents_of_Marxism

Which is the finest systematic destruction of Marx and his politico-religious pseudo-revelations yet written. Keith Tribe also seemed to think I understood it pretty well, as he awarded me a First in History of Economic Thought.


Oh, and Dragic doesn't provide any spacing, because he doesn't take any shots away from the basket (look at the number of mid-range shots he takes--non-existent), and is shooting woefully from 3 (which is the only shot he takes apart from layups). He hasn't done much with the ball despite having it in his hands more than anyone else, and can't do anything off the ball; Wade actually does provide spacing, at least according to the data:

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/11743150/nba-examining-why-defenders-play-close-dwyane-wade-3-point-line

Masonanddixon after Miami win one game, with Deng and McRoberts playing their best games of the season: "Wade sucks and Bosh sucks, let Dragic do everything cos he's the best"

Whiteside puts up 25/23 in 30 mins on the way to another win: "Trade Whiteside for Channing Frye so Dragic can do his thing--he's the effin best, don't you know; you're not a Heat fan if you disagree!!!"

Really, your cocksucking of Dragic is getting tiresome now, so go away and find another white basketball player to blow.

[masonanddixon]

Yeah, I have actually. I've also read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Currents_of_Marxism

Which is the finest systematic destruction of Marx and his politico-religious pseudo-revelations yet written. Keith Tribe also seemed to think I understood it pretty well, as he awarded me a First in History of Economic Thought.


Oh, and Dragic doesn't provide any spacing, because he doesn't take any shots away from the basket (look at the number of mid-range shots he takes--non-existent), and is shooting woefully from 3 (which is the only shot he takes apart from layups). He hasn't done much with the ball despite having it in his hands more than anyone else, and can't do anything off the ball; Wade actually does provide spacing, at least according to the data:

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/11743150/nba-examining-why-defenders-play-close-dwyane-wade-3-point-line

Masonanddixon after Miami win one game, with Deng and McRoberts playing their best games of the season: "Wade sucks and Bosh sucks, let Dragic do everything cos he's the best"

Whiteside puts up 25/23 in 30 mins on the way to another win: "Trade Whiteside for Channing Frye so Dragic can do his thing--he's the effin best, don't you know; you're not a Heat fan if you disagree!!!"

Really, your cocksucking of Dragic is getting tiresome now, so go away and find another white basketball player to blow.

Tribe is a renowned hack.

I never said Wade and Bosh suck---I simply stated that they need to take fewer shots and give Dragic more of a free reign over the offense.

Your lack of knowledge of the game astounds me.

Keep blowing Whiteside--he has what, 18 assists TOTAL in his past two seasons. Oh wait, give me a stat that shows how great he is without Dragic on the court.

[Smoke117]

http://media2.giphy.com/media/pgcVG1K7YZG9O/giphy.gif

[tpols]

Statistics that factually show that Dragic has the ball in his hands far more often than Wade does (the 12th most in the entire league, in fact); he just doesn't do very much with the ball when he's got it.
.

um.. all point guards are at the top of the possession stat list. There's 24 seconds on the shot clock and bringing the ball up the court is like 6 or so seconds of time.. 25% of the possession right off the bat that would massively inflate that percentage, and has nothing to do with ball stopping. that stat means fk all in a comparison on who is a bigger black hole.

[GrapeApe]

These past two games have made me think of the adage of necessity being the mother of all invention. Spo couldn't run his patented system of "everyone stand around and watch the HOFers". He was forced to run an actual offense. High activity level, moving without the ball, back door cuts, sharing the ball, and pushing the tempo. I don't understand why it takes being without your stars to figure out what most Heat fans have known for years. Spo's "system" is a complete joke.

There's no reason they can't play the exact same way with Wade and Bosh. With Wade as an off-ball scorer and Bosh stretching the floor this can be a very dangerous offense. Deng has had back to back monster games doing exactly what Wade excels at. A Dragic/Bosh PnR with Wade and Deng cutting from the wings should be the bread and butter of their half court offense.

I've also been extremely impressed with Winslow. He's unbelievably intelligent and for a 19 year old it's amazing how well he understands the game. He already plays like a veteran and he's always so under control. Once his scoring develops, look out. Oh, and McRoberts could be a real x-factor. He's basically a 6'10 PG.

[Dresta]

um.. all point guards are at the top of the possession stat list. There's 24 seconds on the shot clock and bringing the ball up the court is like 6 or so seconds of time.. 25% of the possession right off the bat that would massively inflate that percentage, and has nothing to do with ball stopping. that stat means fk all in a comparison on who is a bigger black hole.
I know you aren't very smart, but he has the ball in his hands for the same amount of time as Kyle Lowry (more than Steph Curry, and Jeff Teague--same as Harden too--an SG btw in case you didn't know), and those guys find plenty of opportunities for themselves.

CG McCollum, Lebron, Harden are all ahead of several starting pgs. It proves he isn't playing the Mario Chalmers role (who was below Lebron when he was in Miami), and isn't marginalised in the offense by playing with Bosh or Wade, or anyone else. His failures have been his own. He actually has the ball considerably more this season than last, and only very slightly less than in his best season (6.3 compared with 6.5). And no-one even said anything about "black holes' except for you. Nobody in their right mind would call either Dragic or Wade that (only Kobe). So yeah, go shove your nonsense up masonanddixon's bleached anus.

[DaSeba5]

It's not the players. It's just that Spo doesn't get as creative on offense when the stars are playing. There is too much standing around and watching the star players make moves. There is no reason why Wade and Bosh couldn't work in this kind of offense. Wade is a terrific off ball player and Bosh is terrific at spreading the floor. Plus Whiteside seems better off the bench working with the 2nd unit. That's something to think about.

[tpols]

I know you aren't very smart, but he has the ball in his hands for the same amount of time as Kyle Lowry (more than Steph Curry, and Jeff Teague--same as Harden too--an SG btw in case you didn't know), and those guys find plenty of opportunities for themselves.

CG McCollum, Lebron, Harden are all ahead of several starting pgs. It proves he isn't playing the Mario Chalmers role (who was below Lebron when he was in Miami), and isn't marginalised in the offense by playing with Bosh or Wade, or anyone else. His failures have been his own. He actually has the ball considerably more this season than last, and only very slightly less than in his best season (6.3 compared with 6.5). And no-one even said anything about "black holes' except for you. Nobody in their right mind would call either Dragic or Wade that (only Kobe). So yeah, go shove your nonsense up masonanddixon's bleached anus.

theyve been an issue of poor fit.. wade and dragic are redundant in the same way bron and wade were. Wade's inability to space the floor and only be good for isos is a major detriment to Dragic's game.. he, and the Heat would be better off with a 3 & D player at SG.


Which is why I agree with mason that Wade should come off the bench as an energy scoring guy, and saved for clutch time a bit, instead of ruining the offensive chemistry with his inability to space the floor or open the game up for his teammates. Would be best for your squad.

[Dresta]

theyve been an issue of poor fit.. wade and dragic are redundant in the same way bron and wade were. Wade's inability to space the floor and only be good for isos is a major detriment to Dragic's game.. he, and the Heat would be better off with a 3 & D player at SG.


Which is why I agree with mason that Wade should come off the bench as an energy scoring guy, and saved for clutch time a bit, instead of ruining the offensive chemistry with his inability to space the floor or open the game up for his teammates. Would be best for your squad.
Except Bosh is less capable of playing at a high tempo than Wade, which is what Dragic really needs to thrive. Miami didn't have good spacing at all tonight (2-13 from 3, with best 3 point shooter being Deng), they just had great ball-movement (and Whiteside was a monster on the boards, and with put-backs), particularly aided by McRoberts (the McBob/Whiteside pick and roll was deadly).

[GrapeApe]

theyve been an issue of poor fit.. wade and dragic are redundant in the same way bron and wade were. Wade's inability to space the floor and only be good for isos is a major detriment to Dragic's game.. he, and the Heat would be better off with a 3 & D player at SG.


Which is why I agree with mason that Wade should come off the bench as an energy scoring guy, and saved for clutch time a bit, instead of ruining the offensive chemistry with his inability to space the floor or open the game up for his teammates. Would be best for your squad.

The thing is, Wade is actually GREAT at spacing the floor due to his cutting ability. His gravity is still among the best in the game, meaning he's shadowed off the ball as if he were a deadly shooter. His spacing issue has always been a complete myth, and there's more ways to space the floor than being a spot up shooter. At this point in his career Wade is at his best as an off-ball scorer. He's still a dynamic player in the off-ball role. He'll have the ball in crunch time, but he doesn't need to be a primary ball handler to be effective.

That's what's so frustrating watching the Heat's offense. Spo simply doesn't know how to play to the strengths of his players. I've mentioned this before, but a trio as offensively talented as Wade, Dragic, and Bosh would be flourishing in the right system.