Wilt Chamberlain had 33 59/20 games

[CavaliersFTW]

Shaq and Anthony Davis joined him with their 1 a piece :rockon:

GOAT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94iJr8ZbzM

[Kawhi]

How many of those were in the playoffs?
How many of those led to wins?

[Marchesk]

https://media.giphy.com/media/SPqz9tfgMGLyo/giphy.gif

[ISHGoat]

How many of those were against centers over 200lbs and over 6'6?

[CavaliersFTW]

How many of those were in the playoffs?
How many of those led to wins?
Ever seen a stat line like 56 points, 35 rebounds, 12 blocked shots before?

Highest scoring triple-double of all-time. Greatest statistic in the playoffs ever :applause:

Pop Quiz: Who did it?

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GNC6uzGPMAI/VTwgVIhdVvI/AAAAAAAAGJc/5rmjr-Rrfc8/s800-Ic42/NBA%252520EDSF%252520Warrios%252520vs%252520Nation als%252520G5%2525201962%252528better%252520version %252529.jpg

[Kawhi]

Wilt scoring 59 or more points ('63 - '73):

Regular season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=1964&year_max=1973&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_id=&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_day=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=59&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Playoffs:
None

[CavaliersFTW]

How many of those were against centers over 200lbs and over 6'6?
No center was ever that small in Wilt Chamberlains era.

I'm pretty sure no center was ever that small in the entire history of the NBA.

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ABrHVx0Pnw4/VaryGtvhWmI/AAAAAAAAGrA/y9k3XI7byZY/s800-Ic42/NerdWilt.jpg
56 points
35 rebounds
12 blocked shots

---- damn :biggums:

[senelcoolidge]

How many records does Wilt still have 40+ years after he last played?

[Kawhi]

How come Wilt only won two championships, despite his team being better than advertised? Was it because he cared too much about personal statistics? Was it because he stopped playing defense as soon as he got in foul trouble, in order to protect his weird gimmick of not fouling out? Was it because he became obsessed with passing, even passing up open lay ups for assists? Was it because he shrank as soon as the playoffs were starting? Was it because he ''hurt'' his knee?

[sd3035]

He must have had quite a few in the finals then :applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

How many records does Wilt still have 40+ years after he last played?
The way ESPN manufactures records who knows. I'm being serious, they'll come up with "most number of games with 40 points 15 rebounds since (arbitrary cutoff date)"

Subtract the arbitrary cutoff date and you've got another "Wilt record" that the NBA doesn't tally in their official list of 90 some records. And ESPN comes up with "records" like these all the time where you combine a series of arbitrary stats. The sky is the limit with how many records you could try to come up with since he did things statistically that haven't been matched.

[Sarcastic]

Wilt scoring 59 or more points ('63 - '73):

Regular season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=1964&year_max=1973&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_id=&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_day=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts&c1comp=gt&c1val=59&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Playoffs:
None


Oh I didn't realize Anthony Davis just did it in the playoffs. Thanks for the update.

[Cocaine80s]

One of the biggest under achievers of all time

[warriorfan]

Yeah Wilt playing with 30 to 40 more possessions per game has nothing to do with it at all.

OP does not even understand fundamental concepts of basketball :oldlol:

[Kawhi]

Oh I didn't realize Anthony Davis just did it in the playoffs. Thanks for the update.
Oh I didn't realize Anthony Davis was being viewed as a possible GOAT because of his 59/20 games. Thanks for the update.

[Marchesk]

One of the biggest under achievers of all time

I know it hasn't been a great year for the Pelicans, but don't you think it's a bit early to call Davis an underachiever?

[aj1987]

Oh I didn't realize Anthony Davis just did it in the playoffs. Thanks for the update.
Oh, I didn't realize that people are calling Anthony Davis the GOAT or an ATG. Thanks for the update.


http://i64.tinypic.com/2qb6o88.png


Oh I didn't realize Anthony Davis was being viewed as a possible GOAT because of his 59/20 games. Thanks for the update.
Holy shit! We literally posted the same thing. Didn't even see your post.

[Sarcastic]

Oh I didn't realize Anthony Davis was being viewed as a possible GOAT because of his 59/20 games. Thanks for the update.

Wasn't he anointed as the next superstar? In the GM survey, he got 25% of the vote, only behind Lebron James. If he gets even half the records that Wilt has, he will be an all-time great.

[AirFederer]

Yeah Wilt playing with 30 to 40 more possessions per game has nothing to do with it at all.

OP does not even understand fundamental concepts of basketball :oldlol:
And most impressive; Wilt didn't even want to dominate like this.

But he was asked by his coach to do it, who by the way was responsible, together with Wilts teammates, for Wilts failures. :confusedshrug:

[sd3035]

Oh I didn't realize Anthony Davis just did it in the playoffs. Thanks for the update.

Let me know when Davis has 32 more games like that in the regular season but zero in the playoffs

[GrapeApe]

A 59/20 game would be an average performance for Anthony Davis in Wilt's era.

Amirite?

[sd3035]

A 59/20 game would be an average performance for Anthony Davis in Wilt's era.

Amirite?


probably a shit game for him in those days

[CavaliersFTW]

Anyone in this thread trying to belittle the most dominant player in the history of the sport is pathetic :oldlol:

[red1]

Anyone in this thread trying to belittle the most dominant player in the history of the sport is pathetic :oldlol:
Not really. Stats from that era are useless when comparing to modern players.

[CavaliersFTW]

Not really. Stats from that era are useless when comparing to modern players.
An all-time record is an all-time record.

All-time.

Everyone should try and learn to appreciate them, instead throwing tantrums. There are fans that go "wow" and wonder, and try to learn and appreciate NBA history and try to learn the differences in the game objectively - not with intent to simply chop down stats that seem unbelievable but rather to actually learn the game of then. Then there are fans that come up with excuses as to why they shouldn't. The latter lives in a world of fog and ignorance. Do you really want to be on that bandwagon?

[Kawhi]

Anyone in this thread trying to belittle the most dominant player in the history of the sport is pathetic :oldlol:
- Most dominant player in the history of sports.
- Two championships

[warriorfan]

An all-time record is an all-time record.

All-time.

Everyone should try and learn to appreciate them, instead throwing tantrums. There are fans that go "wow" and wonder, and try to learn and appreciate NBA history and try to learn the differences in the game objectively - not with intent to simply chop down stats that seem unbelievable but rather to actually learn the game of then. Then there are fans that come up with excuses as to why they shouldn't. The latter lives in a world of fog and ignorance. Do you really want to be on that bandwagon?

Pace in basketball is the speed at which the game is played and impacts just about every other statistic.

A quicker tempo means more possessions. More possessions means more shots. More shots means more points, more misses, more rebounds... you get the picture. Without an understanding of that tempo, many of the other statistics become meaningless.

[Kawhi]

Wilt Chamberlain vs Bill Russell

Wilt H2H vs Russell: 28.7 points, 28.7 rebounds
Russell H2H vs Wilt: 14.5 points, 23.7 rebounds

Wilt's record vs Russell:58-84
Russell's record vs Wilt: 84-58

Wilt's playoff numbers: 160 games, 22.5 points, 4.2 assists, 47% FT, 52% FG
Russell's playoff numbers: 165 games, 16.2 points, 24.9 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 60% FT, 43% FG

Wilt's record in Game 7's: 4-5
Russell's record in Game 7's: 10-0

Wilt's record in elimination games: 10-11
Russell's record in elimination games: 16-2

Wilt's amount of championships: 2
Russell's amount of championships: 11

[Kawhi]

Not to mention that Russell had to coach himself for the last two titles. But hey.

[red1]

An all-time record is an all-time record.

All-time.

Everyone should try and learn to appreciate them, instead throwing tantrums. There are fans that go "wow" and wonder, and try to learn and appreciate NBA history and try to learn the differences in the game objectively - not with intent to simply chop down stats that seem unbelievable but rather to actually learn the game of then. Then there are fans that come up with excuses as to why they shouldn't. The latter lives in a world of fog and ignorance. Do you really want to be on that bandwagon?
Dude let's just be real for a second. Wilt's 59/20 games and AD's 59/20 game are not alike. Stats from that era just aren't relevant anymore.

[Kawhi]

1960: Wilt wins the MVP award as a rookie, then loses to Boston in six games, playing with Paul Arizin (10 straight All-Star games, Hall of Famer), Tom Gola (5 straight All-Star games, Hall of Famer), Guy Rodgers (4 All-Star games) and Sauldsberry (All-Star).
1961: Wilt gets swept by the 38-41 Syracuse Nationals in the first round. Gets Neil Johnston fired.
1962: Loses to Boston in 7 games.
1963: Wilt finishes 31-49 and misses the playoffs.
1964: Loses to Boston in 5.
1965: Wilt loses 17 in a row, gets traded to Philadelphia, where he plays with Hal Greer (ten straight All-Star games, Hall of Famer), Lucious Jackson (All-Star), Chet Walker (7 time All-Star, Hall of Famer) and Larry Costello (6 time All-Star). Loses to Boston in 7.
1966: Loses to Boston in 5.
1967: Wilt finally wins.
1968: Wilt leads to league in assists, grabs a 3-1 lead over Boston, but manages to lose in 7.

[warriorfan]

This is a Wilt 60/20 game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202170STL.html


This is a AD 60/20 game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602210DET.html


First off, Wilt lost to the second worst team in the entire league that year.

AD won his game.

Secondly there is no FGA which would be the nail in the coffin to this debate but you can still see the score of the game which ended in 249 total points compared to 217 points for Anthony Davis.

There were enough possessions for the teams to score 32 more points in Wilt's game.

That is 15% more total points scored when compared to Anthony Davis'.

So Anthony Davis scored more total percentage of the points scored in the game and did it in a winning effort.

That is why Anthony Davis' 59/20 is more impressive than Wilt's 60/20 games.

[LARRY BROWN]

he was great but..............
bill had 11 titles
and Jordan had six!!!!!!!!!

rest in peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!wilt

but he was conan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lebroncry:

[CavaliersFTW]

Dude let's just be real for a second. Wilt's 59/20 games and AD's 59/20 game are not alike. Stats from that era just aren't relevant anymore.
Point for point with certainty Wilt's 59's are every bit as impressive as any players 59+

Rebound for rebound, more were available yes. But he'd still have at least a dozen even with today's available rebounds.

[CavaliersFTW]

This is a Wilt 60/20 game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202170STL.html


This is a AD 60/20 game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602210DET.html


First off, Wilt lost to the second worst team in the entire league that year.

AD won his game.

Secondly there is no FGA which would be the nail in the coffin to this debate but you can still see the score of the game which ended in 249 total points compared to 217 points for Anthony Davis.

There were enough possessions for the teams to score 32 more points in Wilt's game.

That is 15% more total points scored when compared to Anthony Davis'.

So Anthony Davis scored more total percentage of the points scored in the game and did it in a winning effort.

That is why Anthony Davis' 59/20 is more impressive than Wilt's 60/20 games.
Wilt gets the number of touches he wants. He's the superstar, who cares what his roleplayers score.

Nice try though. Oh yeah, you chose ONE of the games Wilt lost, out of his 33 examples. Stop trying to act like Anthony Davis' one 59 20 game is as impressive as a player doing it 33 times.

[warriorfan]

Wilt gets the number of touches he wants. He's the superstar, who cares what his roleplayers score.

Nice try though. Oh yeah, you chose ONE of the games Wilt lost, out of his 33 examples. Stop trying to act like Anthony Davis' one 59 20 game is as impressive as a player doing it 33 times.

Which game out of those two were more impressive?

Wilt's or AD's?

Answer truthfully.

[CavaliersFTW]

Pace in basketball is the speed at which the game is played and impacts just about every other statistic.

A quicker tempo means more possessions. More possessions means more shots. More shots means more points, more misses, more rebounds... you get the picture. Without an understanding of that tempo, many of the other statistics become meaningless.
It only inflates rebounds available actually. And to an extant, it also appears to reduce accuracy from the field.

Points, and assists are the same in every era. There seem to be human limitations with those no matter what the conditions and you can reduce a games pace til hardly any shots are taken (see George Mikans era) and those superstars will STILL get their touches.

Save for Wilt. He did what no other player from any era has ever been able to duplicate on the offensive end.

[90sgoat]

Adjust for lower FG% and higher pace and Wilts stats are not ungodly, though still of course elite.

Rebounds in particular are highly subjected to the much lower FG% and many more field goal attempts.

[CavaliersFTW]

Which game out of those two were more impressive?

Wilt's or AD's?

Answer truthfully.
I didn't look at it. You picked 1 of 33 games where Wilt scored at least 59 points and 20 rebounds. Think about that. And knowing you you picked the "least" impressive one you could find because great things don't seem real to you. How could they, your life hasn't exactly taken off so here you are hating on the most dominant player in the sport of basketball. I'd be skeptical of great achievement too if I had your experiences.

[warriorfan]

It only inflates rebounds available actually. And to an extant, it also appears to reduce accuracy from the field.

Points, and assists are the same in every era. There seem to be human limitations with those no matter what the conditions and you can reduce a games pace til hardly any shots are taken (see George Mikans era) and those superstars will STILL get their touches.

Save for Wilt. He did what no other player from any era has ever been able to duplicate on the offensive end.

points and assists are the same even with the increased possessions because players were just not as good back then

if you have more possessions, more rebounds, more assist opportunities, more shot opportunities, you should have more stats

the fact that there are more possessions and more rebounds and the same amount of points and assists show that the quality of the game wasn't as good

it was a sloppy and careless basketball pumped up at an extreme pace so players had much more opportunities to rack up stats when compared to the modern day game

talk to any knowledge basketball mind that doesn't have an unhealthy obsession with Wilt and they will tell you the exact same thing

[Nash]

I can respect that Wilt was way, way ahead of his time but the man did not play against proper opponents. Anything he did back then shouldn't be measured against todays game.

Wilt to me did what I'd imagine a superstar in the modern era would do if he was sent back to those times.

[CavaliersFTW]

Adjust for lower FG% and higher pace and Wilts stats are not ungodly, though still of course elite.

Rebounds in particular are highly subjected to the much lower FG% and many more field goal attempts.
There's no scoring adjustment for pace.

Only for rebounds. And with this 2nd-3rd highest TRB% all-time and ability to play entire games without needing rest, still ungodly.

[warriorfan]

I didn't look at it. You picked 1 of 33 games where Wilt scored at least 59 points and 20 rebounds. Think about that. And knowing you you picked the "least" impressive one you could find because great things don't seem real to you. How could they, your life hasn't exactly taken off yet I'd be skeptical of great achievement too if I was you.

http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2c/2c394d4d_kobe_bryan_wtf.gif

you are so shook you have crawled into in full blown denial right now

seek help immediately

[Akhenaten]

sorry I cant take gaudy numbers from that era seriously

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/20140123/4960807/can-t-do-it-o.gif

[AintNoSunshine]

Thanks for proving his competition was laughable.

[La Frescobaldi]

[QUOTE=Akhenaten]sorry I cant take gaudy numbers from that era seriously



what gaudy numbers you're talking about? who else was getting all these 50 20 kinds of games?

[LongLiveTheKing]

Who cares it was a weak era with more possesions. Anthony Davis back then would've done the same if not had more games of 59 points and 20 rebs than Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

Who cares it was a weak era with more possesions. Anthony Davis back then would've done the same if not had more games of 59 points and 20 rebs than Wilt.

This 39 year old played his peak four seasons in the Wilt era...

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2013/09/13/20130803-kareem-vs-rockets.nba/

Now, you tell me how many 59-20 games he had in his career.

[LAZERUSS]

Thanks for proving his competition was laughable.

Chamberlain had back-to-back games (two games in two consecutive nights), of 73-36, and 62-28...against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy (whom Marty Blake claimed was 7-0 BTW)...and 6-10 HOFer Bill Russell.

[LAZERUSS]

Who cares it was a weak era with more possesions. Anthony Davis back then would've done the same if not had more games of 59 points and 20 rebs than Wilt.

Yes...it was so weak that, in the Wilt-era, there were a TOTAL of 37 60+ point games.




BTW, ... Wilt had 32 of them.

[plowking]

[QUOTE=Akhenaten]sorry I cant take gaudy numbers from that era seriously



what gaudy numbers you're talking about? who else was getting all these 50 20 kinds of games?

How many 59/20 games does Wilt have playing from 95-2010?
You think he puts up 33 of them?
Same era where a 6'5 guy was averaging 38/19 for a season. Who else was putting up gaudy numbers at the time? Any athlete out there was.
6'9 guys were putting up 30/20 seasons.
Rookies were coming in and averaging 32/19...

Nah. Big numbers back in the day were a rarity, right?

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif

[LAZERUSS]

Which game out of those two were more impressive?

Wilt's or AD's?

Answer truthfully.

Just one example...

This one...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196902080PHO.html

Just so you know...

in that game, the two teams combined for 195 FGAs, and 86 rebounds.

Chamberlain put up a 66 point game, on 29-35 FG/FGAs, with 27 rebounds.

Oh, and Wilt's team won.


In AD's game, the two teams combined for 175 FGAs, and 92 rebounds.

Even adjusting for FGAs, Chamberlain would still have taken 31 FGAs, and made 27. Or 62 points. And obviously he rebounded better, as well.



But, let's move forward, shall we...to Wilt's last fully healthy game...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196911070LAL.html

At first glance...nothing unusual, right? Wilt with 33 points (and 15 rebounds.)

Except that Chamberlain shredded his knee in the third period, and after having only played 28 minutes.

Here was his full stat-line in that game...

33 points, on 13-14 from the floor, and 7-13 from the line, with 15 rebounds.

Ok, the two teams combined for 194 FGAs, and 106 rebounds.

So, let's give Wilt 43 minutes (AD played a little over 43 in his 59 point game.)

51 points, on 20-22 FGAs, with 23 rebounds.

Reduce Chamberlain's FGAs and rebounds down to the level in AD's game...

46 points, on 18-20 FGAs, with 20 rebounds.

Oh, and this was a 33 year old Wilt, and no longer in his prime.


Incidently, in that 69-70 season, Wilt's new coach asked Chamberlain to become the focal point of the Laker offense (after the Van Breda Kolff disaster the year before), and guess what? In the first nine games of the season, Chamberlain was leading the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg ( on a .579 FG%, and with 20.6 rpg.) And again, in that ninth game, he only played 28 minutes, and in fact, was on pace for a 50+ point game. Let's give him 50 shall we? Guess what, he would have averaged 34.0 ppg to that point.

Of course, he blew out his knee in that ninth game, and was never the same again. But think about this...

Kareem was a rookie that season, and would averaged 28.8 ppg, 14.5 rpg, and shoot .518 from the floor. Two years later a PEAK Kareem would average 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, and shoot .574 from the floor.

And here was a 33 year old Chamberlain, past his peak, and putting up a 34-21 .579 season.

Just some food for thought...

[TommyGriffin]

Just one example...

This one...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196902080PHO.html

Just so you know...

in that game, the two teams combined for 195 FGAs, and 86 rebounds.

Chamberlain put up a 66 point game, on 29-35 FG/FGAs, with 27 rebounds.

Oh, and Wilt's team won.


In AD's game, the two teams combined for 175 FGAs, and 92 rebounds.

Even adjusting for FGAs, Chamberlain would still have taken 31 FGAs, and made 27. Or 62 points. And obviously he rebounded better, as well.



But, let's move forward, shall we...to Wilt's last fully healthy game...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196911070LAL.html

At first glance...nothing unusual, right? Wilt with 33 points (and 15 rebounds.)

Except that Chamberlain shredded his knee in the third period, and after having only played 28 minutes.

Here was his full stat-line in that game...

33 points, on 13-14 from the floor, and 7-13 from the line, with 15 rebounds.

Ok, the two teams combined for 194 FGAs, and 106 rebounds.

So, let's give Wilt 43 minutes (AD played a little over 43 in his 59 point game.)

51 points, on 20-22 FGAs, with 23 rebounds.

Reduce Chamberlain's FGAs and rebounds down to the level in AD's game...

46 points, on 18-20 FGAs, with 20 rebounds.

Oh, and this was a 33 year old Wilt, and no longer in his prime.


Incidently, in that 69-70 season, Wilt's new coach asked Chamberlain to become the focal point of the Laker offense (after the Van Breda Kolff disaster the year before), and guess what? In the first nine games of the season, Chamberlain was leading the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg ( on a .579 FG%, and with 20.6 rpg.) And again, in that ninth game, he only played 28 minutes, and in fact, was on pace for a 50+ point game. Let's give him 50 shall we? Guess what, he would have averaged 34.0 ppg to that point.

Of course, he blew out his knee in that ninth game, and was never the same again. But think about this...

Kareem was a rookie that season, and would averaged 28.8 ppg, 14.5 rpg, and shoot .518 from the floor. Two years later a PEAK Kareem would average 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, and shoot .574 from the floor.

And here was a 33 year old Chamberlain, past his peak, and putting up a 34-21 .579 season.

Just some food for thought...

:milton

[LAZERUSS]

How come Wilt only won two championships, despite his team being better than advertised? Was it because he cared too much about personal statistics? Was it because he stopped playing defense as soon as he got in foul trouble, in order to protect his weird gimmick of not fouling out? Was it because he became obsessed with passing, even passing up open lay ups for assists? Was it because he shrank as soon as the playoffs were starting? Was it because he ''hurt'' his knee?

PROVE IT!

And please, no quotes from Celtic players who were obviously attempting to protect the legacy of Russell.

Here are the FACTS my friend...

In Wilt's regular season career, he averaged 45.8 mpg, and get this... 2.0 PFs per game. How about his 160 post-season games? He averaged 47.2 mpg (yes, 47.2 mpg), and get this... 2.5 PF's per game.

The REALITY was, Chamberlain was seldom even close to foul trouble. And, even in the rare occasions that he was, he was still playing 45-48 mpg.

Again, I want you to give us all here an actual example of Wilt backing down with 4+ personal fouls.

Oh, and BTW, give us an example of a great player going all out with 5 personal fouls, as well. I can give you an example of the great Bill Russell...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnu5vMfPtbw

Watch Russell's "defense" at the 3:40 mark...

Oh, and BTW, how about this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain


In the 1972 NBA Finals, the Lakers again met the New York Knicks; the Knicks were shorthanded after losing 6'9" Willis Reed to injury, and so, undersized 6'8" Jerry Lucas had the task to defend against the 7'1" Chamberlain.[93] However, prolific outside shooter Lucas helped New York to win Game 1, hitting nine of his 11 shots in the first half alone; in Game 2, which the Lakers won 106–92, Chamberlain put Lucas into foul trouble, and the Knicks lost defensive power forward Dave DeBusschere to injury.[93] In Game 3, Chamberlain scored 26 points and grabbed 20 rebounds for another Lakers win, and in a fiercely battled Game 4, the Lakers center was playing with five fouls late in the game. Having never fouled out in his career – a feat that he was very proud of – he played aggressive defense despite the risk of fouling out, and blocked two of Lucas' shots in overtime, proving those wrong who said he only played for his own stats; he ended scoring a game-high 27 points.[93] But in that game, he fell on his right hand, and was said to have "sprained" it; it was actually broken. For Game 5, Chamberlain's hands were packed into thick pads normally destined for defensive linesmen in American Football; he was offered a painkilling shot, but refused because he feared he would lose his shooting touch if his hands became numb.[93] In Game 5, Chamberlain recorded 24 points, 29 rebounds, eight assists and eight blocked shots. (While blocked shots were not an official NBA stat at that time, announcer Keith Jackson counted the blocks during the broadcast.[citation needed]) Chamberlain's outstanding all-around performance helped the Lakers win their first championship in Los Angeles with a decisive 114–100 win.[93] Chamberlain was named Finals MVP,[41] and was admired for dominating the Knicks in Game 5 while playing injured.[93]

As for Wilt's "obsession with passing"...yes, he was so obsessed with it, that he not only led the league in assists that season, but, he also led his Sixers to a runaway best record in the league, as well. What a selfish bastard, right?

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]

How many 59/20 games does Wilt have playing from 95-2010?
You think he puts up 33 of them?
Same era where a 6'5 guy was averaging 38/19 for a season. Who else was putting up gaudy numbers at the time? Any athlete out there was.
6'9 guys were putting up 30/20 seasons.
Rookies were coming in and averaging 32/19...

Nah. Big numbers back in the day were a rarity, right?

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif

Yes...

Like the fact that in Wilt's 14 seasons, and aside from Chamberlain himself, there a TOTAL of FIVE 60+ point games.

Remove Chamberlain from that period, and it was just as in any other 14 year period since (or less in fact.)

[Akhenaten]

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]

How many 59/20 games does Wilt have playing from 95-2010?
You think he puts up 33 of them?
Same era where a 6'5 guy was averaging 38/19 for a season. Who else was putting up gaudy numbers at the time? Any athlete out there was.
6'9 guys were putting up 30/20 seasons.
Rookies were coming in and averaging 32/19...

Nah. Big numbers back in the day were a rarity, right?

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif


Don't who this guy thought he was fooling trying to play dumb smh, thanks for saving me some typing, like you said 6'5 cat avg 36/17 for three year stretch....cmon man, dudes avg 30 point triple doubles for 6 years straight.

Then in 60 years no other are even coming close to posting these ridiculous numbers and these decrepit goofy cats are trying to argue what exactly? That individual talent and skill got progressively worse over the course of 50 to 60 years.

FVCK OUTTA HERE!

Post all the dissertations y'all old dudes want to post sensible non-biased people are not reading that sh*t, I respect those legends for laying to foundation but don't tell me about numbers these guys were posting as if it means ANYTHING in relation to the sort of numbers players put up in the modern.

Y'all can yell at the moon till y'all pass out, people with common-sense is not listening to your maniacal ramblings.

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain had many 59+ point games in which he hardly dropped at all (and some in which he IMPROVED) in his next game. I found one two game stretch of 60 down to 24.

But nothing close to a 59 to 9 drop.

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=plowking]


Don't who this guy thought he was fooling trying to play dumb smh, thanks for saving me some typing, like you said 6'5 cat avg 36/17 for three year stretch....cmon man, dudes avg 30 point triple doubles for 6 years straight.

Then in 60 years no other are even coming close to posting these ridiculous numbers and these decrepit goofy cats are trying to argue what exactly? That individual talent and skill got progressively worse over the course of 50 to 60 years.

FVCK OUTTA HERE!

Post all the dissertations y'all old dudes want to post sensible non-biased people are not reading that sh*t, I respect those legends for laying to foundation but don't tell me about numbers these guys were posting as if it means ANYTHING in relation to the sort of numbers players put up in the modern.

Y'all can yell at the moon till y'all pass out, people with common-sense is not listening to your maniacal ramblings.

Interesting...

no one came close to Wilt's rebounding numbers in his era, and yet, in the MJ era, we had a 6-5 guy lead the league in rebounding.

In the Shaq-era (in which Shaq never sniffed a rebounding title BTW), we had a 6-7 guy do it twice.

Hell, just a few years ago we had this 6-8 buffoon running away with a rpg title...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7TnbhJr8iY

BTW, Love averaged 15.2 rpg, and in only 35.8 mpg. Give him Baylor's 44 mpg, and Love would have averaged 18.6 rpg. And yet is anyone here claiming that Love is some kind of physical specimen?

Oh, and in the Bird-Magic-era we had a 6-5 POST player routinely putting up 30+ ppg seasons, and on ...get this... .631 to .661 TS%'s.

[Psileas]

Wilt Chamberlain vs Bill Russell

Wilt H2H vs Russell: 28.7 points, 28.7 rebounds
Russell H2H vs Wilt: 14.5 points, 23.7 rebounds

Wilt's record vs Russell:58-84
Russell's record vs Wilt: 84-58

Wilt's playoff numbers: 160 games, 22.5 points, 4.2 assists, 47% FT, 52% FG
Russell's playoff numbers: 165 games, 16.2 points, 24.9 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 60% FT, 43% FG

Wilt's record in Game 7's: 4-5
Russell's record in Game 7's: 10-0

Wilt's record in elimination games: 10-11
Russell's record in elimination games: 16-2

Wilt's amount of championships: 2
Russell's amount of championships: 11

The bold is what matters. Nobody ever said that Wilt's teams were better than Russell's and the rest of the numbers show this. But individually? Wilt=GOAT.

[LAZERUSS]

The bold is what matters. Nobody ever said that Wilt's teams were better than Russell's and the rest of the numbers show this. But individually? Wilt=GOAT.

Not only that, but Wilt's playoff numbers against Russell EXCEEDED his career averages, while Russell's playoff numbers DROPPED against Wilt.

For some reason Bill Simmons never mentioned that fact.

[Psileas]

1960: Wilt wins the MVP award as a rookie, then loses to Boston in six games, playing with Paul Arizin (10 straight All-Star games, Hall of Famer), Tom Gola (5 straight All-Star games, Hall of Famer), Guy Rodgers (4 All-Star games) and Sauldsberry (All-Star).

He vastly outplayed all of them, so, irrelevant who the others were.


1961: Wilt gets swept by the 38-41 Syracuse Nationals in the first round. Gets Neil Johnston fired.

No, Warriors get swept, despite Wilt averaging 37/23 and vastly outplaying anyone else. Neil Johnston wasn't an NBA level coach anyway, so it should be only expected to be fired.


1962: Loses to Boston in 7 games.

And that's supposed to make his case worse? If anything, he wasn't even supposed to have pushed the Celtics to 7 games.


1963: Wilt finishes 31-49 and misses the playoffs.

With trash of a roster.


1964: Loses to Boston in 5.

Boston=much better team. Expected.


1965: Wilt loses 17 in a row, gets traded to Philadelphia, where he plays with Hal Greer (ten straight All-Star games, Hall of Famer), Lucious Jackson (All-Star), Chet Walker (7 time All-Star, Hall of Famer) and Larry Costello (6 time All-Star). Loses to Boston in 7.

You're so desperate to distort facts. :facepalm Wilt did not lose 17 in a row, he was traded midway, with his team posting an even worse record without him. And not a single of those players was in his prime. This was a 50% level team going against a 62 win team and pushed them to 7 games.


1966: Loses to Boston in 5.

Easily outplays anyone.


1967: Wilt finally wins.

While destroying anyone on his path. Wouldn't have mattered even if he had lost.


1968: Wilt leads to league in assists, grabs a 3-1 lead over Boston, but manages to lose in 7.

When practically the whole starting 5 is injured, it's not "manages to lose", it's "manages to grab a 3-1 lead over the Celtics, but eventually loses".

[ClipperRevival]

The bold is what matters. Nobody ever said that Wilt's teams were better than Russell's and the rest of the numbers show this. But individually? Wilt=GOAT.

Lol. Wilt fans in love with individual numbers while ignoring WINNING.

And nobody said Wilt's teams were better than Russell's? Is this some joke?

[Psileas]

Lol. Wilt fans in love with individual numbers while ignoring WINNING.

And nobody said Wilt's teams were better than Russell's? Is this some joke?

Nobody=Nobody in his right mind. Doesn't include Jordan groupies.
Results have shown it. Celtics>Wilt's teams in the vast majority of cases. How anyone can deny it is beyond me. The final result of a team game reflects how teams compare. Get over it.

[SpaceJam]

Wilt: - To become limp or flaccid;

[ClipperRevival]

Nobody=Nobody in his right mind. Doesn't include Jordan groupies.
Results have shown it. Celtics>Wilt's teams in the vast majority of cases. How anyone can deny it is beyond me. The final result of a team game reflects how teams compare. Get over it.

Wilt's team had the superior record over Russell's team for 4 straight years (1966 - 1969). I don't even need to get into what happened in some of those playoffs. Lol.

And let's roll the pages and pages of his individual numbers without proper context.

[ClipperRevival]

Oh, and as an MJ fan, I can say that he never lost a series when he had HCA (24-0) and even won 6 times without HCA, including twice in the finals (1993 and 1998)..

And as I showed above, Wilt is already 1-3 with HCA in the 4 year sample and probably lost a few more times. So given the Wilt fan's predicament, I can see why you have no other choice but to give every excuse imaginable for his playoff failures and cling to his individual stats as if that's the be all, end all.

[Psileas]

Wilt's team had the superior record over Russell's team for 4 straight years (1966 - 1969). I don't even need to get into what happened in some of those playoffs. Lol.

And let's roll the pages and pages of his individual numbers without proper context.

Context, you said? Like the "30-22-18" context? Like the 11-2 context? Like the "Russell>Wilt, because of winning, but Jordan>Russell because of individual numbers" context?
There hasn't been much that hasn't been mentioned in the walls of text of other topics. Definitely nothing that would lead me to change my views of Wilt as at least a strong GOAT candidate and a GOAT level playoff performer. Did he underperform at times? Yes. Did he do it more frequently than other GOAT candidates? No, it hasn't ever been shown.

[Psileas]

Oh, and as an MJ fan, I can say that he never lost a series when he had HCA (24-0) and even won 6 times without HCA, including twice in the finals (1993 and 1998)..

He did, however, lose a series when his team led (twice). Unlike Russell.


And as I showed above, Wilt is already 1-3 with HCA in the 4 year sample and probably lost a few more times. So given the Wilt fan's predicament, I can see why you have no other choice but to give every excuse imaginable for his playoff failures and cling to his individual stats as if that's the be all, end all.

He's also won multiple series without HCA. Including sweeping a 4 (not 3) game such series. Plus, he's won multiple series coming from behind, including coming back from a a 3-1 deficit. Again, nothing substantial to negatively separate him from other greats of the game.

[Kawhi]

PROVE IT!

And please, no quotes from Celtic players who were obviously attempting to protect the legacy of Russell.
Prove it? Damn, as soon as Wilt gets brought up, you people seem to lose reality. The man played in 1,045 games with a minute average of 46(!) without fouling out once. That is impossible, and you know it. Unless, you know, stop playing defense to protect your weird gimmick.

[Kawhi]

As for Wilt's "obsession with passing"...yes, he was so obsessed with it, that he not only led the league in assists that season, but, he also led his Sixers to a runaway best record in the league, as well. What a selfish bastard, right?
Not only did he lead the league in assists, or his team to the best record in the league in '67, he also led his team to a 3-1 series lead over the Celtics. But, as always, he lost. In his first years, he didn't care about passing. Then, after he ''embraced'' passing, he became too unselfish. Obviously because he had found a new gimmick, and cared way too much about statistics, while the only statistic that matters is the amount of rings one has.

Game 7 of the 1969 Finals says everything you need to know about Wilt, when he ''hurt'' his knee.

[Kawhi]

"Wilt is a very goal-oriented person, and and under Alex (Hannum) he wanted to win a title and become the first center to lead the league in assists. He liked to pass to Hal Greer or myself, because we just caught it and shot it. Chet Walker usually caught the ball, took a dribble or two and then shot it - no assist for Wilt (under the assist rules of that time). So Wilt preferred to give the ball to us.


"He said in training camp that he wanted to lead the league in assists. He thought that would be cool. Of course, we all thought that would be cool too. But he didn't want us to run. He wouldn't throw outlet passes off rebounds. Only Billy or Chet were allowed to run out and score on the fastbreak if they got long rebounds.
"Wilt wanted to be involved in every half-court play, so he stood there in the middle and all of us would run around him and he tried to pile up his assists. You've got to remember that assists were kept much more strictly back then. There was none of this stuff like today where you can take three dribbles and a head-fake and it counts. You got assists if you caught the pass and made the shot. So that meant Wilt would only pass it to guys who could catch and shoot -- Luke, Billy sometimes, Wali, Hal and me. In my case, he'd try to get me to just go backdoor for a layup, because he didn't trust me to do much else. And he'd never pass it to Chet Walker, because Chet always had to be pump-faking or use a dribble and take away the assist.

Statistics over wins.

[Kawhi]

In the 1960 playoff series between Russell and Chamberlain, the normally non-offensive Russell had games of 19, 26, 17, and 25 points. Russell never averaged 19 ppg in a regular season of his career. Wilt's lack of defensive impact as he goes for individual accomplishments is evident.
Game 1 - Wilt drops 44, but goes 8/14 from the FT line. Celtics win by 6 as Wilt misses 6 FTs
Game 4 - must win game with Celtics already up 2-1. The regular season scoring champ (38 ppg) only puts up 24 in the must-win game, with 6/11 (55%) FT as Celtics win by 8 and take a 3-1 lead
Game 6 - once again, the 1959/60 scoring champ (38 ppg) only drops 26 points, 10/16 (63%) from FT line, and the Celtics win by 2 with Wilt's huge scoring dropoff and 6 missed FTs

In 1961 Wilt got swept in the first round 3-0 by the Syracuse Nationals. The Nationals had a 38-41 record, and still swept Wilt's 46-33 Warriors.
Game 2 - Wilt does good scoring with 32 points, but goes 6/10 (60%) FT and the Nats win by ONE point while Wilt misses four free throws
Game 3 - Wilt drops 33, but another bad day at the FT line 7/14 (50%). Nats only win by 3 while Chamberlain costs his team 7 free points.

In 1962 Wilt won the scoring title (50 ppg), yet he lost the Game 7 of the 1962 EDF against the Celtics and got outscored by Sam Jones 28 to 22. Where was the 100 points and 50 ppg when it actually mattered?
In the 1962 playoff series alone Bill Russell had games of 31, 31, and 29 pts in the series. Bill Russell never in his career averaged 19 ppg in a season, but he averaged over 20 ppg vs Wilt in both the 1960 and 1962 playoff series - in spite of the fact that Russell was a team-first player who usually did not need to score to dominate a game.
In 9 playoff meetings against Russell, Wilt's ppg decreased from his regular season every time, while Russell's increased on multiple occasions.

Game 1 - Wilt held in check; Celts Cop
"With Russell doing a defensive masterpiece on Wilt Chamberlain...Boston settled the contest early as it launched the defense of its world title. Russell, a picture of coordinated movement rising to the Chamberlain challenge held Wilt to 12 points in the first half. Chamberlain wound up high scorer with 33 points only after the issue was no longer in doubt."

Game 3 - Boston Clinches Contest Early (Russell Outplays Wilt, Celtics Take 2-1 Edge)
"Bill Russell stole Wilt Chamberlain's thunder... Russell outscored and out rebounded scoring king Chamberlain in the crucial first half after being outplayed Wilt in Philadelphia Tuesday night. Though the 7-2 Chamberlain wound up leading all scorers with 35, most of them came too late for the visitors. Russell tallied 21 points to Wilt's 13 in the opening half and grabbed 14 rebounds to Chamberlain's 11. The big Celt finished up with 31 points. A typically brilliant play by Bob Cousy and Russell enabled the Celtics to open up their big spread before the first half ended...That gave Boston a 13 point bulge, 62-49, and the Celts proceeded to run the Warriors ragged the remaining four minutes. Boston led by 21 at intermission, 76-55."

Game 5 - (Celtics put clamp on Chamberlain; Gain 3-2 Lead in East NBA Playoffs)
"Bill Russell put the clamps on Wilt Chamberlain... Russell scored 29 points to Chamberlain's 30. Bill blanketed Wilt so well that the NBA scoring king had only four of 13 field goal tries, 11 points and outrebounded 11-9 by his tormentor in the first half. Russell also contributed numerous blocked shots and assists to the decision...When Philadelphia closed the gap to eight points at the start of the second period, the Celtics turned on a burst in which they outscored the Warriors 17-4"

Game 7 - Jones Sinks Winning Two For Celtics
"Jones fired the winning basket over giant Wilt Chamberlain with two seconds left for the 109-107 victory Thursday night...Russell, 6-10 center whose spectacular blocks of shots and passes in the fourth quarter helped Boston's comeback, agreed (with Auerbach). "Toughest series I've ever had to play in," said Russell...Though Russell held Chamberlain to 22 points and had the rebounding edge 22-21, Wilt was outstanding defensively...while rookie Tom Meschery took scoring honors with 32 points

In 1963, Wilt averaged 45-24 in the season and won the scoring + rebounding titles, but his team didn't get a ticket to the playoffs with the worst defense in the league (most opponents' ppg allowed) for the 2nd consecutive season.


In the 1964 Finals vs the Celtics, the Sixers are trailing the series 2-1. Wilt goes 3/8 (38%) from FT line, and the Warriors only lose by 3 points as Wilt missed five free throws. Wilt's free throw struggles dug the Sixers into a 1-3 hole and they never recovered.

In the 1965 EDF vs Celtics, during Game 7, everyone remembers when Havlicek stole the ball. What they do not remember, is that scoring champion Wilt Chamberlain was once again outscored in a Game 7 by Sam Jones (37 to 30) just like in Game 7 of 1962 (28 to 22). Russell also dropped 15-29-8 on Chamberlain with an unofficial 6 blocks.

In 1966, the number 1 seed Sixers host the Celtics, and are trailing 2-1 in the series. Wilt only has 15 points, 1-4 from the FT line and the Celtics win that game by a slim 6 points as the Sixers now trail 3-1.
Willt, the scoring champ, was outscored by Havliceck (27), Jones (22), Russell (18), and Siegfried (18), and his own teammates Greer (25), Bianchi (20), and Walker (16) in the must-win Game 4.
In Game 5, Wilt has 46 points, but... Wilt missed 17 free throws (8/25) in an 8 points loss

[dunksby]

Elgin Baylor standing at 6'5" put up 63/31 against Wilt and won the game too, but you won't hear OP talking about that :lol
"Nobody was doing what Wilt did" my ass.

[julizaver]

Wilt Chamberlain vs Bill Russell

Wilt H2H vs Russell: 28.7 points, 28.7 rebounds
Russell H2H vs Wilt: 14.5 points, 23.7 rebounds

Wilt's record vs Russell:58-84
Russell's record vs Wilt: 84-58

Wilt's playoff numbers: 160 games, 22.5 points, 4.2 assists, 47% FT, 52% FG
Russell's playoff numbers: 165 games, 16.2 points, 24.9 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 60% FT, 43% FG

Wilt's record in Game 7's: 4-5
Russell's record in Game 7's: 10-0

Wilt's record in elimination games: 10-11
Russell's record in elimination games: 16-2

Wilt's amount of championships: 2
Russell's amount of championships: 11

You have missed Wilt's rebounds per game. Russell was the GOAT post-season rebounder, yet Wilt outrebound him in every post-season series they met.

Some questions about Wilt's opposing centers:

- Who was Wilt's opponent when he put NBA record 55 rebounds ?
- Who was Wilt's opponent when he put NBA post season record of 41 rebounds ?

[julizaver]

This is a Wilt 60/20 game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202170STL.html


This is a AD 60/20 game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602210DET.html


First off, Wilt lost to the second worst team in the entire league that year.

AD won his game.

Secondly there is no FGA which would be the nail in the coffin to this debate but you can still see the score of the game which ended in 249 total points compared to 217 points for Anthony Davis.

There were enough possessions for the teams to score 32 more points in Wilt's game.

That is 15% more total points scored when compared to Anthony Davis'.

So Anthony Davis scored more total percentage of the points scored in the game and did it in a winning effort.

That is why Anthony Davis' 59/20 is more impressive than Wilt's 60/20 games.

Wilt in that game - 26/44 and 15 from 20 from the line (67 points) to go with 28 rebounds 2 asists and who knows how many blocks. I don't know why you pick that particular game flirted with possessions stats and together with the winning act as if Wilt had just one game of 60/20 and he lost it.

[julizaver]

I can respect that Wilt was way, way ahead of his time but the man did not play against proper opponents. Anything he did back then shouldn't be measured against todays game.

Wilt to me did what I'd imagine a superstar in the modern era would do if he was sent back to those times.

If a superstar of modern era could match Wilt's expoits back then doesn't it mean that Wilt = modern era superstar ?

[julizaver]

Which game out of those two were more impressive?

Wilt's or AD's?

Answer truthfully.

AD 59/20 career game is as impresive as Wilt's 67 points 28 rebounds game in a losing effort. Adjust it as you like. But in reallity AD's game looks more impresive, because Wilt's 67/28 was something as a standard for him.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

I'm a lifelong Pacers fan and my family has been lifelong basketball fans as well. My Grandpa actually had season tickets back then and was at the 100 point game. He said it was a complete joke and the other team was not trying. People in the stands believed there was some sort of pay off going on. He told me that Wilt was great but he played against six feet six guys that were not that athletic. That is his word not mine.

[julizaver]

I'm a lifelong Pacers fan and my family has been lifelong basketball fans as well. My Grandpa actually had season tickets back then and was at the 100 point game. He said it was a complete joke and the other team was not trying. People in the stands believed there was some sort of pay off going on. He told me that Wilt was great but he played against six feet six guys that were not that athletic. That is his word not mine.

The game was a joke, esspecially at the end - not only by your grandpa's accounts. Wilt himself mentioned it.

[j3lademaster]

If a superstar of modern era could match Wilt's expoits back then doesn't it mean that Wilt = modern era superstar ?i don't think anyone's trying to deny that Wilt would be a superstar had he played today, but that he'd be comparable to modern superstars and not some god amongst men putting up 33 59/20 games.

[ImKobe]

Yet Wilt did none of those things in the Playoffs against the Celtics when it was time to do so. All he did was brick FTs that cost his teams the game in the end

just shows how weak the era was. Yes, you had some great teams in there but the teams Wilt feasted on were mostly garbage in comparison to his skillset. All the coach had to do was tell the guys to give Wilt the ball and let him go at it because no one could stop him, if we had the usage rate numbers he probably had the ball over 50% of the time. Those things would not happen in this era.

[Asukal]

When you are

30->22->18=2

I'm very impressed! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[ShawkFactory]

I'm a lifelong Pacers fan and my family has been lifelong basketball fans as well. My Grandpa actually had season tickets back then and was at the 100 point game. He said it was a complete joke and the other team was not trying. People in the stands believed there was some sort of pay off going on. He told me that Wilt was great but he played against six feet six guys that were not that athletic. That is his word not mine.
This account is pointless.