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Nick Young
02-23-2016, 06:15 PM
Does anyone have any sources and links of Donald Trump saying racist things?:confusedshrug:

9erempiree
02-23-2016, 06:42 PM
I like how the libtards think it's dangerous to call illegal immigrants rapists but the danger is letting them stay no?

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 12:30 PM
The media on both sides keeps telling me that Donald Trump is a racist white supremacist who is comparable to Hitler, and hates freedom of speech.

But when I go looking for racist Donald Trump quotes, I can't find a single one!


Does anyone have any examples and sources of Donald Trump saying racist things?


I could be wrong, but I'm worried that the media might be fabricating a false narrative around him. But surely something like that would never happen in America, amirite?

LikeABosh
05-03-2016, 12:32 PM
http://i.imgur.com/GGbTsER.jpg

kurple
05-03-2016, 12:32 PM
Who cares?

Being an racist will be Trumps last problem if he is elected Prez..

I do think he is a racist tho. Regardless of proof or not

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 12:36 PM
Who cares?

Being an racist will be Trumps last problem if he is elected Prez..

I do think he is a racist tho. Regardless of proof or not
Why? Because the Norwegian state media told you to think this?:confusedshrug:

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 12:36 PM
http://i.imgur.com/GGbTsER.jpg

imgur doesnt work on ISH bro

dude77
05-03-2016, 12:45 PM
the american people must know the truth ..


BOMBSHELL:ex black employee who secretly recorded her conversations with trump to release tapes, claims trump calls blacks ******s and jigaboos on the recordings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaKUo5naoY)

BarberSchool
05-03-2016, 12:55 PM
Until further proof to the contrary, I'd say its safe to assume OP is Milo Yiannopoulos, the half jewish, half greek, Self-hating gay conservative republican gamer, who calls Donald trump... Daddy.

https://www.youtube.com/user/yiannopoulosm

UK2K
05-03-2016, 12:56 PM
the american people must know the truth ..


BOMBSHELL:ex black employee who secretly recorded her conversations with trump to release tapes, claims trump calls blacks ******s and jigaboos on the recordings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaKUo5naoY)
Meanwhile, Bill believes Obama should be fetching him coffee.

That didn't come from a story or an opinion, that came straight from his mouth lol.

Not like it matters, the majority of blacks don't care. They'll vote Democrat no matter what.

LBJ called it:

"These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference... I'll have them ******s voting Democratic for the next two hundred years".

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 12:58 PM
Until further proof to the contrary, I'd say its safe to assume OP is Milo Yiannopoulos, the half jewish, half greek, Self-hating gay conservative republican gamer, who calls Donald trump... Daddy.

https://www.youtube.com/user/yiannopoulosm
No need to resort to logical fallacy and personal attacks brah. You sound absolutely furious right now. Also, Serbs, and every Balkan brother is A-OK in my book :cheers:

Please stay on topic in the thread. Do you have any sources and quotes of Donald Trump doing or saying something racist?

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 01:01 PM
LBJ called it:

"These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference... I'll have them ******s voting Democratic for the next two hundred years".
Right on cue, the Dems have made a propaganda movie about LBJ starring Bryan Cranston (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPQM5UssU2g), where they will attempt to white-wash away the true racist roots of the Democratic party, the party not only responsible for fighting in the favor of slavery during the civil war, but also for creating the Ku Klux Klan. The Dems are also responsible for racist and bigoted pro-segregationist identity politics infesting modern Acadamia.

Steven Kerry
05-03-2016, 03:13 PM
Oh, this thread again.

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 03:35 PM
Oh, this thread again.
Yes. People keep making threads like this, and I'm still yet to see an actual quote from Donald Trump that supports the fact he's a racist.

it is almost like those accusations are fabricated and based on nothing!:eek:

DeuceWallaces
05-03-2016, 03:36 PM
:sleeping

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 03:37 PM
:sleeping
Sources? Quotes? Facts?

Anyone?
:confusedshrug:

Steven Kerry
05-03-2016, 03:56 PM
Yes. People keep making threads like this, and I'm still yet to see an actual quote from Donald Trump that supports the fact he's a racist.

it is almost like those accusations are fabricated and based on nothing!:eek:
It is almost like you get your jollies from trolling! :eek:

Steven Kerry
05-03-2016, 03:59 PM
Look at the OP's sad desperation:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399053

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400531

Nobody cared about your thread 2 months ago, and nobody will care now.

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 04:36 PM
Look at the OP's sad desperation:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399053

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400531

Nobody cared about your thread 2 months ago, and nobody will care now.
The man who made three comments in this thread and took the time to search for past threads seems to care quite a bit ;)

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 04:37 PM
facts? quotes? Real life?:confusedshrug:

FillJackson
05-03-2016, 04:58 PM
If you can't see that Trump has been taking Republican subtext and making it overt, that's on you.

Let me turn the tables on and ask you this.

Why are organized racists so excited on by Trump's candidacy. Far more than any politician of recent vintage.

Why is he supported by
The Imperial Wizard for the Rebel Brigade of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Virginia?

Matthew Heimbach, chairman of the white-nationalist Traditionalist Worker Party

David Duke

Why did the Nazi website Daily Stormer endorse him last June?

Why did White Nationalist record robocalls in support of Trump?


PBS did a story on a family that was doing volunteer work for Trump, they had never been politically active before. Viewers started pointing out that the woman had white supremacist tattoos on both hands.

Why when GQ did a story on Melania Trump did the author's email and twitter start filling up with Anti-Semitic attacks?


Why did Trump in 2011 put his political stake in the ground of the racist birther movement? Why did he choose to revive this dead issue and secure the support of the racists and crazies still attached to it?

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:00 PM
If you can't see that Trump has been taking Republican subtext and making it overt, that's on you.

Let me turn the tables on and ask you this.

Why are organized racists so excited on by Trump's candidacy. Far more than any politician of recent vintage.

Why is he supported by
The Imperial Wizard for the Rebel Brigade of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Virginia?

Matthew Heimbach, chairman of the white-nationalist Traditionalist Worker Party

David Duke

Why did the Nazi website Daily Stormer endorse him last June?

Why did White Nationalist record robocalls in support of Trump?


PBS did a story on a family that was doing volunteer work for Trump, they had never been politically active before. Viewers started pointing out that the woman had white supremacist tattoos on both hands.

Why when GQ did a story on Melania Trump did the author's email and twitter start filling up with Anti-Semitic attacks?


Why did Trump in 2011 put his political stake in the ground of the racist birther movement? Why did he choose to revive this dead issue and secure the support of the racists and crazies still attached to it?
Please refrain from logical fallacy and what-aboutism. Do you have any quotes and sources to support any of your speculative claims?:confusedshrug:

The Grand Dragon of the KKK of California supported Hillary Clinton. Going by your own logic, Hillary is a racist member of the KKK.

FillJackson
05-03-2016, 05:04 PM
Please refrain from logical fallacy and what-aboutism. Do you have any quotes and sources to support any of your speculative claims?:confusedshrug:
No logical fallacy.

White nationalists are excited about Trump. Every one of the claims can be easily googled.

Heimlich roughed up a black protester at a Trump rally. The GQ writer was inundated with pictures of Jews in Ovens and worse.

DonDadda59
05-03-2016, 05:11 PM
http://s32.postimg.org/59pjlz49x/Trumpdiscrimination_tear02_2.jpg

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:12 PM
No logical fallacy.

White nationalists are excited about Trump. Every one of the claims can be easily googled.

Heimlich roughed up a black protester at a Trump rally. The GQ writer was inundated with pictures of Jews in Ovens and worse.
White nationalists are also excited for Hillary. The Grand Dragon of California has pledged his support to Hillary.

It seems like white nationalists are excited for the candidates who are white and not Jewish or Cuban.

DonDadda59
05-03-2016, 05:21 PM
'Me Chinese. Me make deal' (https://youtu.be/k6zk31iNtHs)

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:23 PM
'Me Chinese. Me make deal' (https://youtu.be/k6zk31iNtHs)
What's wrong with that, he's directly quoting an actual Chinese business man he's worked with in the past. If anything, he is showing great respect to the Chinese man by attempting to accurately imitate his accent and pronunciation.

LexiKhan
05-03-2016, 05:24 PM
There's the whole mexicans are rapists and criminals, likely refering to the amerendian ones.

I remember watching some surreal speech of his where he was reading some sus story about snakes and taking them in only to get bitten or whathever, that was hillarious. Again referring to specific segments (muslims and central americans), calling them "snakes", that's kinda racist.

There is of course the "Build the Wall" slogan, which seems to be the only thing most of his supporters spout off, and it was certainly what made his platform gain all this support.

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:26 PM
Here is a video of Donald Trump confronting a 'KKK Endorses Trump' shirt in his rally, kicking him out, and then publically mocking him for being a racist piece of crap, saying that people like him are responsible for our country going to hell. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v11nceoFJRg) It's almost as if Trump hates racist white supremacists.

Hawker
05-03-2016, 05:28 PM
'Me Chinese. Me make deal' (https://youtu.be/k6zk31iNtHs)
If that's racist then this Hillary Clinton quote is racist:
Hillary: Ghandi worked at a gas station in St. Louis (https://youtu.be/4mfsYagjRW0)

DonDadda59
05-03-2016, 05:29 PM
Drumpf: 'I'm being brought to trial on federal racketeering and fraud charges because the judge is Hispanic' (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/28/donald-trump-says-hispanic-judge-showing-hostility-in-court-case.html)

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:29 PM
There's the whole mexicans are rapists and criminals, likely refering to the amerendian ones.

I remember watching some surreal speech of his where he was reading some sus story about snakes and taking them in only to get bitten or whathever, that was hillarious. Again referring to specific segments (muslims and central americans), calling them "snakes", that's kinda racist.

There is of course the "Build the Wall" slogan, which seems to be the only thing most of his supporters spout off, and it was certainly what made his platform gain all this support.
Please quote where he said that. He said that many Mexicans who help Mexicans illegally sneak over the border are rapists and criminals. This is absolute truth. Many illegal immigrants living in America had to deal with these rapist criminals in order to cross the border in to America.

Trump is trying to protect these innocent Mexican families from getting raped by these Mexican criminals. He is encouraging them to instead apply for a work visa properly so they are able to safely and legally cross the border in the United States, and obtain legal work so they aren't underpaid once they arrive here.

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:30 PM
Drumpf: 'I'm being brought to trial on federal racketeering and fraud charges because the judge is Hispanic' (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/28/donald-trump-says-hispanic-judge-showing-hostility-in-court-case.html)
How is that racist? What if it's true? You have no idea whether it's true or not.


no proof has been provided in this thread so far.

DonDadda59
05-03-2016, 05:30 PM
If that's racist then this Hillary Clinton quote is racist:
Hillary: Ghandi worked at a gas station in St. Louis (https://youtu.be/4mfsYagjRW0)

Not racist enough to have a federal civil rights discrimination lawsuit brought against her though.

The Donald... Eh, not so much. :ohwell:

DonDadda59
05-03-2016, 05:31 PM
How is that racist? What if it's true? You have no idea whether it's true or not.


no proof has been provided in this thread so far.

Asks for proof. Gets proof.

Melts down.

Typical.

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:32 PM
I remember watching some surreal speech of his where he was reading some sus story about snakes and taking them in only to get bitten or whathever, that was hillarious. Again referring to specific segments (muslims and central americans), calling them "snakes", that's kinda racist.

I hope you know that he was referring to ISIS when he told this story. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8JjDgHVxSM)Trump hates Muslims and Central Americans because he told this story comparing the terrorist organization ISIS to a snake?

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:34 PM
Asks for proof. Gets proof.

Melts down.

Typical.
I just want facts and proof bro, not obscure, indirect quotes that speculatively allude to racism.

DonDadda59
05-03-2016, 05:42 PM
I just want facts and proof bro, not obscure, indirect quotes that speculatively allude to racism.

'Major Landlord Accused of Anti-Black Bias in City'

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2015/07/30/blogs/insider-trump3/insider-trump3-blog480.jpg

The United States of America vs Fred C. Trump, Donald J. Trump, and Trump Management Inc.

Study your History, boi.

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 05:43 PM
'Major Landlord Accused of Anti-Black Bias in City'

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2015/07/30/blogs/insider-trump3/insider-trump3-blog480.jpg

The United States of America vs Fred C. Trump, Donald J. Trump, and Trump Management Inc.

Study your History, boi.
Thanks for this source I'll check it out. :cheers:

LexiKhan
05-03-2016, 05:46 PM
I hope you know that he was referring to ISIS when he told this story. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8JjDgHVxSM)Trump hates Muslims and Central Americans because he told this story comparing the terrorist organization ISIS to a snake?

He seems to be refering to immigrants, more specifically muslim ones in general, saying that if even 2% are ISIS it's trouble. Of course he's right in fearing terrorists in america, but he considers muslim immigrants snakes or potencial snakes, the eventual ISIS ones being the snakes that will bite.

And he's clearly talking about mexicans immigrants as a group, not just the ones that aid the illegal crossing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi33KkhKRWs

FillJackson
05-03-2016, 05:48 PM
It seems like white nationalists are excited for the candidates who are white and not Jewish or Cuban.

They didn't come out like this for McCain or for Romney


In June of last year, when they went apeshit for Trump, he was one of at least a dozen white candidates. So no, it doesn't seem.

DonDadda59
05-03-2016, 05:50 PM
Thanks for this source I'll check it out. :cheers:

Don't thank me, thank Uncle Sam. :applause:

http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-09-2015/x580wh.gif

But the Donald doesn't settle suits doe. The Donald has been conning the shit out you rubes for decades (but only being charged in the courts because the judge in one case just happens to be Hispanic). :yaohappy:

Nick Young
05-03-2016, 06:03 PM
Don't thank me, thank Uncle Sam. :applause:

http://i.makeagif.com/media/12-09-2015/x580wh.gif

But the Donald doesn't settle suits doe. The Donald has been conning the shit out you rubes for decades (but only being charged in the courts because the judge in one case just happens to be Hispanic). :yaohappy:
what do you mean by "you rubes"?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3AYPbxEvBU8/T167Pzj2YJI/AAAAAAAAEDI/qjf-O_Drm94/s1600/tropic_thunder_daterants-blogspot-com.jpg

UK2K
05-04-2016, 06:54 AM
Drumpf: 'I'm being brought to trial on federal racketeering and fraud charges because the judge is Hispanic' (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/28/donald-trump-says-hispanic-judge-showing-hostility-in-court-case.html)

Are you saying Accusing someone of being racist makes you racist?

You say that and the left leaning ISH posters will bounce. The can't stay around if they can't retreat to their go to argument for anything and everything.

I'll remember that next time.

kurple
05-04-2016, 10:20 AM
Why? Because the Norwegian state media told you to think this?:confusedshrug:
I'm good at reading people.. And Trump screams racist

+ that whole awkward interview where he refused to condem the former leader of the KKK (forgot his name).. Cause then he's either a racist or pretending to be, and i dont know whats worse

NumberSix
05-04-2016, 10:50 AM
I'm good at reading people.. And Trump screams racist

+ that whole awkward interview where he refused to condem the former leader of the KKK (forgot his name).. Cause then he's either a racist or pretending to be, and i dont know whats worse
You mean the KKK leader who he had already denounced douzens of times and in that one interview was simply annoyed they they kept asking him to denounce him for the millionth time? How many times does he have to denounce this one guy who actually never even endorsed him before enough is enough?

NumberSix
05-04-2016, 10:54 AM
They didn't come out like this for McCain or for Romney


In June of last year, when they went apeshit for Trump, he was one of at least a dozen white candidates. So no, it doesn't seem.
Yeah, because the racists are just as dumb as the "anti-racists". The media tells them 24/7 that Trump is a racist. Both groups simply believe the stupidity the media tells them.

9erempiree
05-04-2016, 11:44 AM
I'm good at reading people.. And Trump screams racist

+ that whole awkward interview where he refused to condem the former leader of the KKK (forgot his name).. Cause then he's either a racist or pretending to be, and i dont know whats worse

:lol at bolded.

Why do you keep saying Trump is affiliated with racists?

Go look up Hillary...you will be quite shocked.

9erempiree
05-04-2016, 11:48 AM
If you can't see that Trump has been taking Republican subtext and making it overt, that's on you.

Let me turn the tables on and ask you this.

Why are organized racists so excited on by Trump's candidacy. Far more than any politician of recent vintage.

Why is he supported by
The Imperial Wizard for the Rebel Brigade of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in Virginia?

Matthew Heimbach, chairman of the white-nationalist Traditionalist Worker Party

David Duke

Why did the Nazi website Daily Stormer endorse him last June?

Why did White Nationalist record robocalls in support of Trump?


PBS did a story on a family that was doing volunteer work for Trump, they had never been politically active before. Viewers started pointing out that the woman had white supremacist tattoos on both hands.

Why when GQ did a story on Melania Trump did the author's email and twitter start filling up with Anti-Semitic attacks?


Why did Trump in 2011 put his political stake in the ground of the racist birther movement? Why did he choose to revive this dead issue and secure the support of the racists and crazies still attached to it?

You should be the last person to talk about Trump and racism.

Please explain this bro.....

http://2ps46p2qeea548gs4x33cbdz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/jpeg-640x349.jpg
http://madworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/gal-robert-byrd05-jpg-620x500.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/8134/891/400/byrd.jpg

When he passed...she made these comments...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iUlFfcY2_4


Trump doesn't go around hanging out with racists, idolizes them or give them a eulogy.

Doomsday Dallas
05-04-2016, 12:21 PM
the american people must know the truth ..


BOMBSHELL:ex black employee who secretly recorded her conversations with trump to release tapes, claims trump calls blacks ******s and jigaboos on the recordings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaKUo5naoY)



:oldlol:



Okay.... so it was posted.

very funny.

Nanners
05-04-2016, 12:33 PM
If Donald was truly a racist I think he would have a long history of questionable comments. The guy has been in the public eye forever, and there was never a perception that he was racist prior to his comment about mexicans.

A person doesnt just suddenly become racist at age 69 (unless they are going senile or something).

Nick Young
05-04-2016, 12:44 PM
I'm good at reading people.. And Trump screams racist

+ that whole awkward interview where he refused to condem the former leader of the KKK (forgot his name).. Cause then he's either a racist or pretending to be, and i dont know whats worse
Ah yes. Personal bias and anecdotal evidence-that is the best proof anyone has given so far!

Did you learn how to get good at reading people in your Norwegian social studies class?:confusedshrug:

Nick Young
05-04-2016, 12:45 PM
You should be the last person to talk about Trump and racism.

Please explain this bro.....

http://2ps46p2qeea548gs4x33cbdz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/jpeg-640x349.jpg
http://madworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/gal-robert-byrd05-jpg-620x500.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/8134/891/400/byrd.jpg

When he passed...she made these comments...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iUlFfcY2_4


Trump doesn't go around hanging out with racists, idolizes them or give them a eulogy.
HOLY SHIT is this real? How can shillary supporters still support her?

dude77
05-04-2016, 01:03 PM
You should be the last person to talk about Trump and racism.

Please explain this bro.....

http://2ps46p2qeea548gs4x33cbdz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/jpeg-640x349.jpg
http://madworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/gal-robert-byrd05-jpg-620x500.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/8134/891/400/byrd.jpg

When he passed...she made these comments...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iUlFfcY2_4


Trump doesn't go around hanging out with racists, idolizes them or give them a eulogy.

wtf :oldlol: .. need any further proof the msm is in bed with the clintons ? .. if trump was caught in those pics, comments he'd be destroyed in the media or at least they'd attempt it .. boss trump would mindfk them in the end though

longtime lurker
05-04-2016, 01:11 PM
Trump employees the FOX News dog whistle racism. That way he has plausible deniability when he gets called out on it. What no one can answer is why Trump is number 1 with racists if he doesn't appeal to racists :confusedshrug:

dude77
05-04-2016, 01:23 PM
Trump employees the FOX News dog whistle racism. That way he has plausible deniability when he gets called out on it. What no one can answer is why Trump is number 1 with racists if he doesn't appeal to racists :confusedshrug:

who cares .. obama actually ATTENDED A RACIST CHURCH FOR 20 YRS .. and a big percentage of black voters voted for obama simply because he was black .. and you were ok with that .. so we'll be ok with racists supporting trump

Nick Young
05-04-2016, 01:26 PM
Trump employees the FOX News dog whistle racism. That way he has plausible deniability when he gets called out on it. What no one can answer is why Trump is number 1 with racists if he doesn't appeal to racists :confusedshrug:
Can you tell me why Hillary is hanging out with prominent members of the KKK and kissing them on the cheek and writing heartful felt euologies about them?


Can you tell me why the Grand Dragon of the KKK branch of California supports Hillary Clinton?:confusedshrug:


Going by your own idiotic logic, Hillary is also a racist and closet KKK supporter.:hammerhead:


Your argument is entirely built on emotion and ignores logic and facts.

Here is Trump confronting a KKK supporter in his rally, having them kicked out and then saying "people like him are the reason this country is going to hell"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v11nceoFJRg

Yes, it seems like he actively is speaking out against the KKK, bro.

This is not an argument based on emotion. It is based off of reality and video evidence.

longtime lurker
05-04-2016, 01:29 PM
who cares .. obama actually ATTENDED A RACIST CHURCH FOR 20 YRS .. and a big percentage of black voters voted for obama simply because he was black .. and you were ok with that .. so we'll be ok with racists supporting trump

:oldlol: sure he did. None of what you said is actually true but keep living in your fantasy world. So you admit that Trump is number one with racists because he says racist shit.

Nick Young
05-04-2016, 01:32 PM
:oldlol: sure he did. None of what you said is actually true but keep living in your fantasy world. So you admit that Trump is number one with racists because he says racist shit.
Please post examples of Donald Trump quotes where he says racist things.

Why is Hillary friends with prominent members of the KKK?:confusedshrug:

dude77
05-04-2016, 01:33 PM
:oldlol: sure he did. None of what you said is actually true

typical coward dem .. deny deny deny when confronted with truth bombs ..

and yes, do explain why hillary is hanging out with and gushing over a klansman

NumberSix
05-04-2016, 01:35 PM
Please post examples of Donald Trump quotes where he says racist things.

Why is Hillary friends with prominent members of the KKK?:confusedshrug:
They don't need examples. They're using their lefty mind reading abilities.

Nick Young
05-04-2016, 01:51 PM
They don't need examples. They're using their lefty mind reading abilities.

"I can just tell he's a racist. He looks like one. I just know it. I feel like it's true so it must be true"