View Full Version : Hang time, anyone compare to MJ?
senelcoolidge
02-29-2016, 02:48 PM
I can't think of any other player that has displayed the hang time that MJ had. I mean MJ's hang time was on display night in and night out. You see some guys make some nice moves, but MJ did it every single night. Whether taking it to the basket or on the post. Looking at games from back then when you took it to the basket you were sure to be challenged. The paint was so clogged unlike today's wide open game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UC-BBSLgS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1FsD9Y7NfY
the guy with the highest vertical leap is the guy with the highest hangtime. it's high school physics. gravity is constant for everyone.
mj does not have the highest vert so he cannot have the longest hangtime. but what you see from mj is an illusion because he might hold the ball longer and not release it until he's on his downward path. but if you measure hangtime properly from the time his foot leaves the ground to the moment his foot lands, he doesn't have the longest hangtime. it's high school physics.
AirBonner
02-29-2016, 02:54 PM
a 40 year old VC has more hang time
FKAri
02-29-2016, 02:59 PM
the guy with the highest vertical leap is the guy with the highest hangtime. it's high school physics. gravity is constant for everyone.
mj does not have the highest vert so he cannot have the longest hangtime. but what you see from mj is an illusion because he might hold the ball longer and not release it until he's on his downward path. but if you measure hangtime properly from the time his foot leaves the ground to the moment his foot lands, he doesn't have the longest hangtime. it's high school physics.
You're misunderstanding OP. He thinks MJ can literally levitate. I, for one, believe him because Nike told me the same thing.
SugarHill
02-29-2016, 02:59 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m90qtjujHz1rnt56ho1_400.gif
Still the dumbest layup ever
the guy with the highest vertical leap is the guy with the highest hangtime. it's high school physics. gravity is constant for everyone.
mj does not have the highest vert so he cannot have the longest hangtime. but what you see from mj is an illusion because he might hold the ball longer and not release it until he's on his downward path. but if you measure hangtime properly from the time his foot leaves the ground to the moment his foot lands, he doesn't have the longest hangtime. it's high school physics.
If you were so great at high school physics, you would know that height is not the only thing that determines how long something is in the air. For example, if somebody jumped straight up for 6 inches, their foot would land pretty quickly. But if somebody did a long jump of 10 feet but never went above 6 inches, they would have been in the air longer. The distance between the peak of your jump and your take off spot would be more accurate (but not perfect) in predicting your hangtime, but it is only a correlation.
PHILA
02-29-2016, 03:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjNS_oYE92E
If you were so great at high school physics, you would know that height is not the only thing that determines how long something is in the air. For example, if somebody jumped straight up for 6 inches, their foot would land pretty quickly. But if somebody did a long jump of 10 feet but never went above 6 inches, they would have been in the air longer. The distance between the peak of your jump and your take off spot would be more accurate (but not perfect) in predicting your hangtime, but it is only a correlation.
well, technically, you can extend the hangtime if you stretch your legs and land on your butt. but gravitational pull is still constant. a guy who jumps 46 inches would have more upward acceleration to combat downward force of gravity than a guy who jumps 45 inches. but we're speaking with all things being equal and not expecting one of them to land on their butt first.
and no, someone who long jumps and gets up as high as 6 inches would have the same time in the air as someone who just stands and jumps 6 inches. (again, unless they did something to their body and landed on their butt to delay hitting the ground sooner...)
WayOfWade
02-29-2016, 03:16 PM
Shane Larkin
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=95Aslkxv6hs
ISHGoat
02-29-2016, 03:18 PM
If you were so great at high school physics, you would know that height is not the only thing that determines how long something is in the air. For example, if somebody jumped straight up for 6 inches, their foot would land pretty quickly. But if somebody did a long jump of 10 feet but never went above 6 inches, they would have been in the air longer. The distance between the peak of your jump and your take off spot would be more accurate (but not perfect) in predicting your hangtime, but it is only a correlation.
Youre an idiot. You couldn't have passed grade 11 physics.
If someone jumped 6 inches straight up vs someone jumped 6 inches vertically up and 10 feet horizontally forward, they'd be in the air for literally the exact same time.
90sgoat
02-29-2016, 03:23 PM
The single worst anti-MJ haterade is probably trying to claim Jordan did not have all time elite vertical.
If so, why haven't a lot of other guys dunked from a true Free Throw line while having a live dribble? Even Zack Lavine did not dunk full FT and he didn't dribble.
MJ has one of the highest verticals of all time it is obvious from his jumping and dunking numbers.
feyki
02-29-2016, 03:37 PM
The single worst anti-MJ haterade is probably trying to claim Jordan did not have all time elite vertical.
If so, why haven't a lot of other guys dunked from a true Free Throw line while having a live dribble? Even Zack Lavine did not dunk full FT and he didn't dribble.
MJ has one of the highest verticals of all time it is obvious from his jumping and dunking numbers.
Definitely , he had all time great vertical . But not greatest nor 48 inches .
Spurd Webb had better vertical for an example .
The single worst anti-MJ haterade is probably trying to claim Jordan did not have all time elite vertical.
If so, why haven't a lot of other guys dunked from a true Free Throw line while having a live dribble? Even Zack Lavine did not dunk full FT and he didn't dribble.
MJ has one of the highest verticals of all time it is obvious from his jumping and dunking numbers.
james white
and NOBODY said mj's vert wasn't ELITE. it just wasn't the best ever. calm down.
90sgoat
02-29-2016, 03:40 PM
It's not that MJ had the highest vertical, it's what he did with it. MJ could use his vertical from one foot jumps and two foot jumps but also because he had amazing body control and superior strength.
well, technically, you can extend the hangtime if you stretch your legs and land on your butt. but gravitational pull is still constant. a guy who jumps 46 inches would have more upward acceleration to combat downward force of gravity than a guy who jumps 45 inches. but we're speaking with all things being equal and not expecting one of them to land on their butt first.
and no, someone who long jumps and gets up as high as 6 inches would have the same time in the air as someone who just stands and jumps 6 inches. (again, unless they did something to their body and landed on their butt to delay hitting the ground sooner...)
I'm not talking about landing on your butt. It takes longer for the person to reach the peak of their jump if they jump a total of 10 feet but only reach 6 inches vertical than if they only jump straight up. Yes gravitational pull is still constant, but one requires more force and the force pushes again the gravitational pull on the upward portion of the jump.
sd3035
02-29-2016, 03:43 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m90qtjujHz1rnt56ho1_400.gif
Still the dumbest layup ever
Probably my favorite Jordan move, but one can't help but notice the soft defense of that era. They just stood around waving their arms like wacky wavy inflatable arm flailing tube men
FKAri
02-29-2016, 03:44 PM
If you were so great at high school physics, you would know that height is not the only thing that determines how long something is in the air. For example, if somebody jumped straight up for 6 inches, their foot would land pretty quickly. But if somebody did a long jump of 10 feet but never went above 6 inches, they would have been in the air longer. The distance between the peak of your jump and your take off spot would be more accurate (but not perfect) in predicting your hangtime, but it is only a correlation.
You're completely wrong.
I'm not talking about landing on your butt. It takes longer for the person to reach the peak of their jump if they jump a total of 10 feet but only reach 6 inches vertical than if they only jump straight up. Yes gravitational pull is still constant, but one requires more force and the force pushes again the gravitational pull on the upward portion of the jump.
no, dude.
the horizontal distance makes no difference. 6 inches is 6 inches. the upward acceleration is negated the same way by gravity regardless of which direction the object is moving (unless there's some crazy ass spin like a baseball pitch or soccer free kick, but that's just nitpicking shit.)
remember the gun example that they used to do to death? if you fire a gun, the time for that bullet to fall to the ground from the pull of gravity would be the same as if you just dropped the bullet from the same height. the horizontal distance doesn't create extra "hangtime" with all things equal.
more force is exerted in a long jump, but the "hangtime" is the same if the apex of the jump is the same. that's just how it works.
no, dude.
the horizontal distance makes no difference. 6 inches is 6 inches. the upward acceleration is negated the same way by gravity regardless of which direction the object is moving (unless there's some crazy ass spin like a baseball pitch or soccer free kick, but that's just nitpicking shit.)
remember the gun example that they used to do to death? if you fire a gun, the time for that bullet to fall to the ground from the pull of gravity would be the same as if you just dropped the bullet from the same height. the horizontal distance doesn't create extra "hangtime" with all things equal.
more force is exerted in a long jump, but the "hangtime" is the same if the apex of the jump is the same. that's just how it works.
Huh, I guess that makes sense. I can admit when I'm wrong. Thanks for the lesson. :cheers:
Follow up question. I was looking at the bullet stuff described and came across this:
http://lightandmatter.com/html_books/lm/ch06/figs/bullets.png
http://lightandmatter.com/html_books/lm/ch06/ch06.html
As you said, the same time dropped as when shot. I haven't found any examples of it tossed up in the air and shot at an angle where the peak height is the same. I assume that based on what people are saying that it would be in the air the same amount of time, so does that mean the time to reach the peak is also the same despite the change in velocity?
Blue&Orange
02-29-2016, 04:15 PM
http://cdn.cavemancircus.com//wp-content/uploads/images/2016/february/funny_pictures_of_the_day/2_22/funny_pictures_of_the_day_14.jpg
:bowdown:
JohnMax
02-29-2016, 04:20 PM
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-14-2015/3KY1o1.gif
KungFuJoe
02-29-2016, 04:32 PM
Follow up question. I was looking at the bullet stuff described and came across this:
http://lightandmatter.com/html_books/lm/ch06/figs/bullets.png
http://lightandmatter.com/html_books/lm/ch06/ch06.html
As you said, the same time dropped as when shot. I haven't found any examples of it tossed up in the air and shot at an angle where the peak height is the same. I assume that based on what people are saying that it would be in the air the same amount of time, so does that mean the time to reach the peak is also the same despite the change in velocity?
Basically, the force of gravity is constant and not affected by any lateral movement.
In your example of tossing something in the air straight up vs something being shot at an upwards angle (but with such force as to make the peak of the arc the same height as the object being tossed straight up) then yes...they would both land at exactly the same time.
AirFederer
02-29-2016, 04:35 PM
Probably my favorite Jordan move, but one can't help but notice the soft defense of that era. They just stood around waving their arms like wacky wavy inflatable arm flailing tube men
Probably trolling but still :hammerhead:
I think his "hangtime"/time until releasing the ball is also due to his gigantic hands, which gave him the possibilty to control the ball with one hand, thus giving him a later controlled release. Ads ATG vertical and goat creativity and speed. Bad explanation but there you go.
f0und
02-29-2016, 04:39 PM
its not just that mj has an elite jump, its that he puts almost every bit of his time in the air to good use. he also had the reflexes to adjust in midair, and the touch to lay it up softly while making all those quick little adjustments. most people release their shot at the peak and sometimes just after, but you would rarely see players use their entire hangtime to get off their shot. for jordan, its just part of his regular repertoire.
the only current player that has somewhat comparable hangtime tendencies is gerald green. the leaning jumpshot, hanging, double pump, its very jordan-esque. too bad all he likes to do is sit behind the 3pt line and chuck 3s.
aj1987
02-29-2016, 04:40 PM
Shane Larkin
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=95Aslkxv6hs
You're slippin, bro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5EeVLK8XWQ
andgar923
02-29-2016, 04:49 PM
Probably my favorite Jordan move, but one can't help but notice the soft defense of that era. They just stood around waving their arms like wacky wavy inflatable arm flailing tube men
Uh... he was challenged by a defender.
The play happened fast so most defenders didn't have time to react.
The play starts as the teams are getting back, unlike most players today, MJ reads the defense and doesn't hesitate to attack. He fakes the defenders switching on him, another player is late rotating but causes MJ to adjust, while in the air a defender rotates and attempts to block him. This is when the play becomes special because the first defender had already caused MJ to adjust now the 2nd defender catches MJ in the air and has to maneuver in the air in order to avoid getting blocked. Coleman was on MJ's right and even tho he had his back turned to MJ, his presence still caused MJ to adjust his body.
Most players would've hoisted up a weak attempt after the first defender rotated, a handful would've been either blocked by the 2nd defender, drawn a foul, or thrown up a wild shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqdfjGmFEgA
KrizMiz
02-29-2016, 04:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZqVq5LrdQQ
Basically, the force of gravity is constant and not affected by any lateral movement.
In your example of tossing something in the air straight up vs something being shot at an upwards angle (but with such force as to make the peak of the arc the same height as the object being tossed straight up) then yes...they would both land at exactly the same time.
So by that assumption their peaks would occur at the same time too, right?
Follow up question. I was looking at the bullet stuff described and came across this:
http://lightandmatter.com/html_books/lm/ch06/figs/bullets.png
http://lightandmatter.com/html_books/lm/ch06/ch06.html
As you said, the same time dropped as when shot. I haven't found any examples of it tossed up in the air and shot at an angle where the peak height is the same. I assume that based on what people are saying that it would be in the air the same amount of time, so does that mean the time to reach the peak is also the same despite the change in velocity?
yup, time to reach the peak would be the same. and from the apex, time to fall back the ground would be the same as well unless it's from really really high place where difference in terminal velocity might come in. there are all sorts of other nitpicking instances like when using a feather where air friction is involved, but for pretty much all other regular objects in normal instances (that aren't doing extraordinarily weird things), their time in the air would be the same. that's why in that chart with newton, the bullet immediately gets pulled down as soon as it's fired. if you dropped a bullet from the same height, both would hit the ground at the same time.
yup, time to reach the peak would be the same. and from the apex, time to fall back the ground would be the same as well unless it's from really really high place where difference in terminal velocity might come in. there are all sorts of other nitpicking instances like when using a feather where air friction is involved, but for pretty much all other regular objects in normal instances (that aren't doing extraordinarily weird things), their time in the air would be the same. that's why in that chart with newton, the bullet immediately gets pulled down as soon as it's fired. if you dropped a bullet from the same height, both would hit the ground at the same time.
Ok, cool :cheers:
http://cdn.cavemancircus.com//wp-content/uploads/images/2016/february/funny_pictures_of_the_day/2_22/funny_pictures_of_the_day_14.jpg
:bowdown:
why is #24 trying to block his teammate?
nice jumper.
HORRIBLE player. :oldlol:
He just wanted a better view of the action.
sportjames23
02-29-2016, 05:08 PM
The single worst anti-MJ haterade is probably trying to claim Jordan did not have all time elite vertical.
If so, why haven't a lot of other guys dunked from a true Free Throw line while having a live dribble? Even Zack Lavine did not dunk full FT and he didn't dribble.
MJ has one of the highest verticals of all time it is obvious from his jumping and dunking numbers.
This. The only other guy I ever saw dribble for the FT line dunk was Pippen. EVERYONE else, including the likes of Dr. J, Brent Barry and Lavine ran with the ball.
fragokota
02-29-2016, 05:12 PM
So by that assumption their peaks would occur at the same time too, right?
Yes. But the bullet with the diagonal trajectory would need to have a higher velocity to begin with in order to reach the same height as the one shot straight up. You need to apply more force to the bullet in order to reach the same peak as the one that travels vertically as it has more distance to reach.
FKAri
02-29-2016, 05:12 PM
This. The only other guy I ever saw dribble for the FT line dunk was Pippen. EVERYONE else, including the likes of Dr. J, Brent Barry and Lavine ran with the ball.
Lavine also did a windmill while MJ had to fully extend his arm to complete his dunk. It's a wash.
aj1987
02-29-2016, 05:16 PM
If so, why haven't a lot of other guys dunked from a true Free Throw line while having a live dribble? Even Zack Lavine did not dunk full FT and he didn't dribble.
Doesn't LeBron have an in game FT line dunk? IIRC, he had 2 dunks last season in the PO's in which he took off with a step inside the FT line. Not sure though.
CuterThanRubio
02-29-2016, 05:45 PM
Doesn't LeBron have an in game FT line dunk? IIRC, he had 2 dunks last season in the PO's in which he took off with a step inside the FT line. Not sure though.
He was a step inside, but to my knowledge it is the longest dunk ever recorded in a real game.
Tracy McGrady also did one from about a step beyond as well.. (2nd longest in game dunk)
CAstill
02-29-2016, 09:59 PM
He was a step inside, but to my knowledge it is the longest dunk ever recorded in a real game.
Tracy McGrady also did one from about a step beyond as well.. (2nd longest in game dunk)
Nope, Shawn Kemp has dunked just as far. Kemp has the best ft line dunk of all time.
ClipperRevival
02-29-2016, 11:54 PM
It's many factors. First off, his proven vertical of about 45 inches helps but that's not the biggest factor as most usually shoot the ball at the peak of their jump. What separated MJ was his ability to hold the ball, adjust in the air, sometimes 2-3 times, and release the ball as he was about to land. That requires great coordination, body control, reflexes and fluidity of movement. Check out some of his shots where he releases it right when he is about to land. Most players simply lack the physical attributes to accurately make shots in those instances on the way down. Plus, his huge hands allowed him to hold it in one hand.
ClipperRevival
02-29-2016, 11:57 PM
http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/ItemImages/000033/79c1d42e-a6c6-4207-adc6-d8b35af9ed25_lg.jpeg
Does that look high enough for you? And this was off one foot, jumping sideways. His entire shoulder is at the backboard.
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
03-01-2016, 12:07 AM
Nobody had the "hangtime" Jordan did.
Much of it had to do w/ natural instincts and improv mid-air, too.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2dska3d.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/4370455_o.gif
Mike had some of the greatest off-hand finishes in history.
....And then there's the "REAL" move
http://i.imgur.com/FwFnCu1.gif
:bowdown:
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 12:32 AM
no, dude.
the horizontal distance makes no difference. 6 inches is 6 inches. the upward acceleration is negated the same way by gravity regardless of which direction the object is moving (unless there's some crazy ass spin like a baseball pitch or soccer free kick, but that's just nitpicking shit.)
remember the gun example that they used to do to death? if you fire a gun, the time for that bullet to fall to the ground from the pull of gravity would be the same as if you just dropped the bullet from the same height. the horizontal distance doesn't create extra "hangtime" with all things equal.
more force is exerted in a long jump, but the "hangtime" is the same if the apex of the jump is the same. that's just how it works.
True enough; but this is not the point of hang time though. Your last sentence is correct as far as it goes, but the premise isn't the one to use here.
Of course the times would be identical if they are only leaping and there's no distance travelled horizontally. Shaq would expend more force to make the same leap as Mike since he weighs more, but hang time would be the same.
But horizontal movement is the key part of hangtime. When a guy takes a jumper and seems to float at the top of his leap while his defender drops back to the court...... he stays up longer because he is moving horizontally (usually backwards).
It is the amount of work involved here, not just the laws of gravity on a body.
The defender... since we're being nostalgic let's say it's Gary Payton... he isn't just dropping out of the air as in your example of dropping a bullet. Glove isn't suspended above the court and then dropped precisely when Mike jumps.
No. Just like Jordan does, GP also has to exert force enough to fling himself into the air and then drop back to the court.
It's a different equation, because it's a different problem. This has to do with Newton 2 and the laws of work - joules, newtons, horsepower... whichever term you prefer.... doesn't matter really.
If one player exerts enough force to leap vertically 20 inches and horizontally 2 feet (he is not just dropping 20 inches to the ground, he has to get UP first) , he has not exerted the same force required to leap 20 inches vertically and 10 feet horizontally. The vertical is the same, but the horizontal is something else entirely.
He doesn't stay in the air as long.... he doesn't have as much hangtime.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 12:34 AM
why is #24 trying to block his teammate?
i thought they were going after a rebound
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 12:38 AM
http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/ItemImages/000033/79c1d42e-a6c6-4207-adc6-d8b35af9ed25_lg.jpeg
Does that look high enough for you? And this was off one foot, jumping sideways. His entire shoulder is at the backboard.
dude he's looking up at the rim. are you saying mike has a 6 inch head?
Straight_Ballin
03-01-2016, 12:38 AM
no, dude.
the horizontal distance makes no difference. 6 inches is 6 inches. the upward acceleration is negated the same way by gravity regardless of which direction the object is moving (unless there's some crazy ass spin like a baseball pitch or soccer free kick, but that's just nitpicking shit.)
remember the gun example that they used to do to death? if you fire a gun, the time for that bullet to fall to the ground from the pull of gravity would be the same as if you just dropped the bullet from the same height. the horizontal distance doesn't create extra "hangtime" with all things equal.
more force is exerted in a long jump, but the "hangtime" is the same if the apex of the jump is the same. that's just how it works.
Actually, neither of you accounted for an important factor, which is wind resistance. Take 2 peices of paper that weigh the same. Crumple one up and leave one as is and drop from same height. Which one hits the ground faster? The crumpled one. Drop a bowling ball and basketball from the same height. They hit the ground the same time.
Heavier things have a greater gravitational force AND heavier things have a lower acceleration. It turns out that these two effects exactly cancel to make falling objects have the same acceleration regardless of mass.
MJ was so elite he knew how to contort his body in the air so that it had the least amount of wind reistance as possible on his way down while still being able to make the shot. :lol
ClipperRevival
03-01-2016, 12:43 AM
dude he's looking up at the rim. are you saying mike has a 6 inch head?
Seriously? You need glasses. There are about 7-8 different pics of this dunk. They all show the same thing, his head is right at rim level. The pic I posted is the best as it caught him at the apex of his jump. Google, "Michael Jordan head rim."
LAZERUSS
03-01-2016, 12:46 AM
Seriously? You need glasses. There are about 7-8 different pics of this dunk. They all show the same thing, his head is right at rim level. The pic I posted is the best as it caught him at the apex of his jump. Google, "Michael Jordan head rim."
Slightly below, and looking up at the rim.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 12:50 AM
Seriously? You need glasses. There are about 7-8 different pics of this dunk. They all show the same thing, his head is right at rim level. The pic I posted is the best as it caught him at the apex of his jump. Google, "Michael Jordan head rim."
camera angle is horrific bro. seriously c'mon now
FKAri
03-01-2016, 12:52 AM
True enough; but this is not the point of hang time though. Your last sentence is correct as far as it goes, but the premise isn't the one to use here.
Of course the times would be identical if they are only leaping and there's no distance travelled horizontally. Shaq would expend more force to make the same leap as Mike since he weighs more, but hang time would be the same.
But horizontal movement is the key part of hangtime. When a guy takes a jumper and seems to float at the top of his leap while his defender drops back to the court...... he stays up longer because he is moving horizontally (usually backwards).
It is the amount of work involved here, not just the laws of gravity on a body.
The defender... since we're being nostalgic let's say it's Gary Payton... he isn't just dropping out of the air as in your example of dropping a bullet. Glove isn't suspended above the court and then dropped precisely when Mike jumps.
No. Just like Jordan does, GP also has to exert force enough to fling himself into the air and then drop back to the court.
It's a different equation, because it's a different problem. This has to do with Newton 2 and the laws of work - joules, newtons, horsepower... whichever term you prefer.... doesn't matter really.
If one player exerts enough force to leap vertically 20 inches and horizontally 2 feet (he is not just dropping 20 inches to the ground, he has to get UP first) , he has not exerted the same force required to leap 20 inches vertically and 10 feet horizontally. The vertical is the same, but the horizontal is something else entirely.
He doesn't stay in the air as long.... he doesn't have as much hangtime.
You're still not getting it. If I take a running start and do a long jump with a 30 inch peak height, I'm staying in the air just as long as a guy who jumps straight up 30 inches.
ClipperRevival
03-01-2016, 12:54 AM
Slightly below, and looking up at the rim.
By any measure, the top of his head is right near rim level. Could it be perhaps an inch lower? Yes but that's it. Look at where his shoulder and head are in relation to the backboard and see where the rim is. This isn't like one of those Wilt pics with a lot of drawings and stuff. :roll:
LAZERUSS
03-01-2016, 12:55 AM
There is not much of the 6-6 Gus Johnson available, but given that a 6-3 Joey Johnson, who supposedly could get his chin above the rim...could barely outjump him, I suspect that he was hanging up there pretty well.
http://www.cornerclubmoscow.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2
Any rumors of amazing feats have been told and retold over the years. Several involve someone riding a horse into the bar and ordering a beer for themselves and one for the horse. One says someone rode a buffalo through the bar. But the most told involves Gus Johnson and his nail. Gun played for the Vandals in the 1962-63 season. He averaged 19 points and 20.3 rebounds. He was drafted in the second round of the NBA draft by the Baltimore Bullets and was runner up for rookie of the year.
When Johnson played at Idaho in 1963, he already had a reputation as a leaper of the highest order. One evening at the Corner Club, a local tavern on Main Street in Moscow, Johnson was requested by owner Herm Goetz to display his rare ability to the patrons. The Corner Club was a very modest establishment, converted from a white-stuccoed small chapel in the 1940s with hardwood floors and a beamed ceiling. From a standing start near the bar, Johnson touched a spot on a beam 11'6" (3.505 m) above the floor. This spot was ceremoniously marked with a nail by Goetz, who then proudly proclaimed that anyone who could duplicate the feat could drink for free. A 40-inch (1.016 m) diameter circle was painted on the floor, and both feet had to start inside the circle to ensure a standing start. A full 23 years went by with many attempts at Gus Johnson's Nail, including Bill Walton in the summer of 1984, but there were no successes.
That was until 1986, when the College of Southern Idaho basketball team from Twin Falls stopped in town in January on their way to a game against NIC in Coeur d'Alene. Joey Johnson, a younger brother of then NBA star Dennis Johnson, was brought into the Corner Club for a try. The 6'3" (1.905 m) guard had a 48" (1.219 m) vertical leap and could put his chin on a basketball rim (10 feet (3.048 m)) with a running start.
Johnson laced up his shoes and touched the nail on his first try but was disqualified because he did not start with both feet inside the 40-inch circle. The next attempt came from a legal static start but was just a bit short. On his third try, Johnson grabbed and bent the legendary nail, a landmark event in Vandal sports history. Goetz pulled the nail out of the beam and pounded it back in, a half inch (13 mm) higher.
http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-basketball/story/_/id/7943238/father-son
Armed with a reported 52-inch vertical jump, Johnson, younger brother of NBA Hall of Famer Dennis Johnson, once held the world record for dunking on the highest basket at 11-foot-7. His most famous leap was at a saloon in Moscow, Idaho. He jumped from a standstill position and bent a nail mounted on the wall at 11-foot-4 in honor of former university of Idaho star Gus Johnson.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 12:55 AM
You're still not getting it. If I take a running start and do a long jump with a 30 inch peak height, I'm staying in the air just as long as a guy who jumps straight up 30 inches.
no. If you drop the guy 30 inches, he'll land at the same time as you; but if he travels no horizontal distance while you do travel the same amount of vertical but also move horizontally, you'll be in the air longer.
to make it real exaggerated - if he does a vertical 30 inch and you travel a mile while in the air, you'll spend more time up there
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 12:56 AM
By any measure, the top of his head is right near rim level. Could it be perhaps an inch lower? Yes but that's it. Look at where his shoulder and head are in relation to the backboard and see where the rim is. This isn't like one of those Wilt pics with a lot of drawings and stuff. :roll:
it's 6 inches from bottom of backboard to the rim bro. he's looking up at the rim. so either he has a 6 inch head and no neck at all, or his shoulders are below the backboard
CuterThanRubio
03-01-2016, 12:56 AM
Nope, Shawn Kemp has dunked just as far. Kemp has the best ft line dunk of all time.
In game? I can't find the clip but I'll buy it if I can see it
And no, you must have bad eyes if you think his dunk contest jam was further out than LeBron's, because it wasn't and I will gladly post images but it seems that you are a troll account so I shouldn't even bother, but I will regardless since I think others will appreciate it.
LBJ holds the in game crown, and McGrady's was just as far as Kemp's dunk contest slam,not to mention with live a defender in the paint.
Drexler's jam has the worst angle ever, but you can see a lot more paint behind his heel than James.
http://i64.tinypic.com/sfgs4z.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/r2qqso.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2hhgc5g.jpg
And last, but not least, the furthest dunk ever done in game.
http://i63.tinypic.com/2py41me.jpg
FKAri
03-01-2016, 12:57 AM
no. If you drop the guy 30 inches, he'll land at the same time as you; but if he travels no horizontal distance while you do travel the same amount of vertical but also move horizontally, you'll be in the air longer.
to make it real exaggerated - if he does a vertical 30 inch and you travel a mile while in the air, you'll spend more time up there
No you won't. This is the whole point that other poster was trying to explain with his bullet description.
ClipperRevival
03-01-2016, 12:58 AM
camera angle is horrific bro. seriously c'mon now
It would be if he didn't have his freaken shoulders right at the backboard to give your proper context. I don't care, see whatever you want to see.
Straight_Ballin
03-01-2016, 01:00 AM
Nope, Shawn Kemp has dunked just as far. Kemp has the best ft line dunk of all time.
His dunk on Lister was better. Any dunker can dunk and land on their feet with them being a foot apart from each other or together but Kemp extended his legs out as far as they would go from each other AND landed with them fully extended without giving a single **** about the impact on his knees. Must have been a 7 foot gap between his feet when he landed.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 01:01 AM
No you won't. This is the whole point that other poster was trying to explain with his bullet description.
I know he was. But it's incorrect for this scenario. He isn't allowing for the amount of time required for both bodies to travel horizontally.
If they both leap 30 inches, but one only moves horizontally 2 feet while the other travels 10 feet, or a 1000 feet...... the second guy will be in the air longer.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 01:02 AM
It would be if he didn't have his freaken shoulders right at the backboard to give your proper context. I don't care, see whatever you want to see.
again man, either his head is 6 inches long and he has no neck at all, or his shoulders are below the backboard. you decide which and let us know, okay?
FKAri
03-01-2016, 01:04 AM
I know he was. But it's incorrect for this scenario. He isn't allowing for the amount of time required for both bodies to travel horizontally.
If they both leap 30 inches, but one only moves horizontally 2 feet while the other travels 10 feet, or a 1000 feet...... the second guy will be in the air longer.
No he won't.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 01:05 AM
No he won't.
lol
so it takes the same time to travel 2 feet as it does 10 feet?
Straight_Ballin
03-01-2016, 01:06 AM
I know he was. But it's incorrect for this scenario. He isn't allowing for the amount of time required for both bodies to travel horizontally.
If they both leap 30 inches, but one only moves horizontally 2 feet while the other travels 10 feet, or a 1000 feet...... the second guy will be in the air longer.
No, if they both have the same standing vert, the only way one stays up longer regardless of jumping horizontally is if they do something while in air to impact wind resistance.
FKAri
03-01-2016, 01:10 AM
lol
so it takes the same time to travel 2 feet as it does 10 feet?
If you both reach the same max height? yes.
The same way a bullet dropped straight down from your hand is in the air the same amount of time as one fired from a gun horizontally. There will be small differences due to aerodynamics but in a human those can be almost completely ignored unless you're moving well above 50 miles/hour or something. You ignored his explanation even tho it is the exact same thing that's happening here.
It's many factors. First off, his proven vertical of about 45 inches helps but that's not the biggest factor as most usually shoot the ball at the peak of their jump. What separated MJ was his ability to hold the ball, adjust in the air, sometimes 2-3 times, and release the ball as he was about to land. That requires great coordination, body control, reflexes and fluidity of movement. Check out some of his shots where he releases it right when he is about to land. Most players simply lack the physical attributes to accurately make shots in those instances on the way down. Plus, his huge hands allowed him to hold it in one hand.
Ya this is it. Very few guys have this. Like I used to see it in Rose even Vince a bit. But many big time leapers just don't have the agility and/or awareness to be able to do these maneuvers.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 01:14 AM
No, if they both have the same standing vert, the only way one stays up longer regardless of jumping horizontally is if they do something while in air to impact wind resistance.
you are talking about 2 different things.
if they both leap 30 inches, just vertically, the time will be the same. If one is dropped while the other flies while apex is identical, the time will be the same.
but if one guy travels only vertically up and down while the other goes up 30 inches AND travels........................ 200 yards, say...... he will be in the air longer.
one guy has to travel up 30 inches and then 30 inches back to the ground, under the force of gravity, while the other has to go up the 30 inches, but ALSO overcome gravity to stay elevated... for 200 yards in this imaginary case.
The guy would have to travel at some incredibly fast speed to travel 30 inches in the same time he goes 200 yards.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 01:19 AM
If you both reach the same max height? yes.
The same way a bullet dropped straight down from your hand is in the air the same amount of time as one fired from a gun horizontally. There will be small differences due to aerodynamics but in a human those can be almost completely ignored unless you're moving well above 50 miles/hour or something. You ignored his explanation even tho it is the exact same thing that's happening here.
Ya this is it. Very few guys have this. Like I used to see it in Rose even Vince a bit. But many big time leapers just don't have the agility and/or awareness to be able to do these maneuvers.
You are, again, looking at two different things here my friend.
Look at an artillery shell and a rock.
If we build a tower a mile high, and drop a rock, it will be in the air the same time as a shell that flies up a mile and then drops.
That is NOT the same equation, as throwing the rock from the ground, up a mile and then it falls back down while the shell flies.
Dresta
03-01-2016, 01:23 AM
lol @ the physics talk. Y'all be talking as if basketball players have unbendable stilt legs. It's not just a matter of up and down, but what they do with their legs in the air. You generally take off on a straight leg, but land on a bent leg. That will impact hang time. So guys with longer calves have an advantage, eh?
FKAri
03-01-2016, 01:35 AM
You are, again, looking at two different things here my friend.
Look at an artillery shell and a rock.
If we build a tower a mile high, and drop a rock, it will be in the air the same time as a shell that flies up a mile and then drops.
That is NOT the same equation, as throwing the rock from the ground, up a mile and then it falls back down while the shell flies.
That's not true man.
lol @ the physics talk. Y'all be talking as if basketball players have unbendable stilt legs. It's not just a matter of up and down, but what they do with their legs in the air. You generally take off on a straight leg, but land on a bent leg. That will impact hang time. So guys with longer calves have an advantage, eh?
This and how one actually uses his hang time is what this thread was actually talking about before the derailment.
DonDadda59
03-01-2016, 01:37 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m90qtjujHz1rnt56ho1_400.gif
Still the dumbest layup ever
Dude on the Nets' bench forgot who/where he was for a second. MJ made one more fan that day. :oldlol:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-14-2015/3KY1o1.gif
Pretty sure I made that gif. :coleman:
And that's a great example of why Jordan was the perfect basketball player. That combination of quickness, strength, leaping/hang-time, body control, and those billion dollar oven mitts he called hands. The 1% :bowdown:
Michael Jordan Top 50 Hang Time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UC-BBSLgS8)
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 01:41 AM
That's not true man.
This and how one actually uses his hang time is what this thread was actually talking about before the derailment.
sure it's true bro study it awhile.
Mr. Jabbar
03-01-2016, 01:43 AM
Air Jordan vs LeAirball 2 different kind of heroes
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 01:43 AM
Dude on the Nets' bench forgot who/where he was for a second. MJ made one more fan that day. :oldlol:
one of the greatest plays ever for a fact!! MJ was pure poetry
Straight_Ballin
03-01-2016, 01:43 AM
MJ had too much hang time.
FKAri
03-01-2016, 02:00 AM
sure it's true bro study it awhile.
Show me the two different equations for your tower scenario. I've got a presentation to finish for work but fukc it :lol
warriorfan
03-01-2016, 02:04 AM
No he won't.
Im with this, the only way the person would get more hang time is if since they were traveling horizontally so fast they got aerodynamic powered lift that slowed their decent, since that is not going to be a factor in the sample size of even a free throw line dunk I don't believe horizontal motion effects the hang time of your dunk
you are talking about 2 different things.
if they both leap 30 inches, just vertically, the time will be the same. If one is dropped while the other flies while apex is identical, the time will be the same.
but if one guy travels only vertically up and down while the other goes up 30 inches AND travels........................ 200 yards, say...... he will be in the air longer.
one guy has to travel up 30 inches and then 30 inches back to the ground, under the force of gravity, while the other has to go up the 30 inches, but ALSO overcome gravity to stay elevated... for 200 yards in this imaginary case.
The guy would have to travel at some incredibly fast speed to travel 30 inches in the same time he goes 200 yards.
that does not make any mathematical sense in physics.
an imaginary man running at 1000m/s who leaps 30 inches will be in the air as long as the guy who just stands as jumps 30 inches. the man running obviously exerts a lot more energy, but if the apex of his leap is same as the apex of the standing jumper, then they have the same hang time. the energy he exerts is going forward, not upward. unless he leaps higher than 30 inches, he will have the same hangtime as a standing man jumping 30 inches.
this is the case because gravity is constant, and i'll prove it you. the guy who runs and jumps would decelerate in the air by 9.8m/s/s before his upward velocity stops mid-air before accelerating back to earth at 9.8m/s/s.
the guy who simply stands and jumps is also decelerating his upward path by 9.8m/s/s before pausing in midair momentarily and falling back down at 9.8m/s/s. it does not change regardless of lateral movement.
because the gravitational pull is totally constant here. and in order for for the running guy to have more hangtime (with the same vert), he'd have to slow gravity down and make it weaker than 9.8m/s/s, and that's just not reality.
you might get that on another planet, but not on earth.
Actually, neither of you accounted for an important factor, which is wind resistance. Take 2 peices of paper that weigh the same. Crumple one up and leave one as is and drop from same height. Which one hits the ground faster? The crumpled one. Drop a bowling ball and basketball from the same height. They hit the ground the same time.
Heavier things have a greater gravitational force AND heavier things have a lower acceleration. It turns out that these two effects exactly cancel to make falling objects have the same acceleration regardless of mass.
MJ was so elite he knew how to contort his body in the air so that it had the least amount of wind reistance as possible on his way down while still being able to make the shot. :lol
actually, i did mention air friction and gave an example of a feather. other things similar -- dust particles, tiny floating masses.
but mj was skilled in holding the ball longer than anyone. he didn't always release the ball at the apex of his jump. if there were defenders, he'd maximize his leap and carry the ball through or around them and toss it up half-way down. that gives a bigger impression of hangtime. a guy who jumps 48inches and releases the ball at his apex might not seem to have as much hangtime as a guy who jumps 42inches and releases the ball 6 inches before he lands the ground. that's pretty much what this is about. but if one measures hangtime properly (without focusing on when the ball is released from the hand), the guy who jumps 48 inches obviously has a longer hangtime than the guy with 42 inches.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m90qtjujHz1rnt56ho1_400.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-14-2015/3KY1o1.gif
all sick ass moves, but what's the common denominator here??
ball is released after apex, so he looks like he's floating in the air longer.
but his hangtime would be exactly the same as a random guy who jumped as high as he did.
Svendiggity
03-01-2016, 02:49 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m90qtjujHz1rnt56ho1_400.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-14-2015/3KY1o1.gif
all sick ass moves, but what's the common denominator here??
ball is released after apex, so he looks like he's floating in the air longer.
but his hangtime would be exactly the same as a random guy who jumped as high as he did.
I agree that releasing the ball after the apex is the key. Although, it's not as easy as it looks. Mj was great at faking an initial layup to get defenders to swipe at the ball. He could then contort his body into a position to shoot an accurate layup right before he landed. His control of his body and awareness of his surroundings in the air is probably what we should be discussing instead of physics.
A player today with these traits at the rim is kyrie irving. Kobe was good back in the day too.
Im with this, the only way the person would get more hang time is if since they were traveling horizontally so fast they got aerodynamic powered lift that slowed their decent, since that is not going to be a factor in the sample size of even a free throw line dunk I don't believe horizontal motion effects the hang time of your dunk
correct.
a perfect example is a frisbee. the spin of the frisbee creates aerrodynamics that allows the object to stay in the air for much longer time. gravity is hugely negated by the forces of the spin. but for simple objects like a human or a ball at low heights, we can rely on newtonian laws. i mean, newtonian laws still apply to the frisbee since it's still working against 9.8m/s/s, but other forces in motion are obviously factored in.
I agree that releasing the ball after the apex is the key. Although, it's not as easy as it looks. Mj was great at faking an initial layup to get defenders to swipe at the ball. He could then contort his body into a position to shoot an accurate layup right before he landed. His control of his body and awareness of his surroundings in the air is probably what we should be discussing instead of physics.
A player today with these traits at the rim is kyrie irving. Kobe was good back in the day too.
he also had huge hands and could hold the ball in ways that normal humans can only dream of. the ability to wing that basketball around like a grapefruit in the air.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-14-2015/3KY1o1.gif
DonDadda59
03-01-2016, 03:05 AM
he also had huge hands and could hold the ball in ways that normal humans can only dream of. the ability to wing that basketball around like a grapefruit in the air.
Yup.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/3-01-2016/a93_wq.gif
:bowdown:
Yup.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/3-01-2016/a93_wq.gif
:bowdown:
that is just reeediculous
Svendiggity
03-01-2016, 03:15 AM
he also had huge hands and could hold the ball in ways that normal humans can only dream of. the ability to wing that basketball around like a grapefruit in the air.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-14-2015/3KY1o1.gif
the crazy thing about mj is that he perfected small guard skills and big guard skills. The way he did those sweeping up and under layups with the ball always in motion moving towards its target; that's a move you usually see perfected by guys around 6'3'' and under who had the speed to jump past flat-footed bigs (D rose and iverson come to mind). his hand size doesn't really help him that much on those type of layups.
Overdrive
03-01-2016, 04:21 AM
Heavier things have a greater gravitational force AND heavier things have a lower acceleration. It turns out that these two effects exactly cancel to make falling objects have the same acceleration regardless of mass.
Sure heavier things have greater force, but no they don't have lower acceleration. The acceleration for all objects on earth is g = 9,81m/s^2.
Force in the opposite direction lowers the acceleration, but mass is no force in the opposite direction. When you lift something up you have to apply force opposite to the gravitational pull: F=m(-g+a). Let's say you put something on a table and it rests there. The table structural integrity applies as much force as the gravital pull of the earth. The force applied to the object would be F=m(-g+a) => a = -g => F=m*0. The object would be free of force and thus not moving.
Now there are two kinds of force which apply to an object. Active and inert:
F act = F inert
Active and inert mass are the same, so mass gets canceled for resting and moving objects and hence is not important for further equations.
All things have the same acceleration by gravity on earth at the same altitude. Higher altitude less force.
Free falling objects:
z = gt^2/2 => t = sqrt(2z/g)
Objects will take the same time to fall on the ground in vacuum.
In a medium the form is important as you pointed out with the bowling and basketball.
you are talking about 2 different things.
if they both leap 30 inches, just vertically, the time will be the same. If one is dropped while the other flies while apex is identical, the time will be the same.
but if one guy travels only vertically up and down while the other goes up 30 inches AND travels........................ 200 yards, say...... he will be in the air longer.
one guy has to travel up 30 inches and then 30 inches back to the ground, under the force of gravity, while the other has to go up the 30 inches, but ALSO overcome gravity to stay elevated... for 200 yards in this imaginary case.
The guy would have to travel at some incredibly fast speed to travel 30 inches in the same time he goes 200 yards.
The length of the jump is a result of peak height. The peak height is furthermore a result of starting speed and angle. But if they reach the same peak height, in your case 30 inches, they will reach it at the same time irrelevant of angle.
The time of flight is the same no matter the length of the jump, if the peak is the same.
In an z-t diagram both jumps would actually have the same curve.
I think a big problem for a lot of people is that they don't think in vertical and time, but in vertical and horizontal and mix up horizontal and time.
You say overcome gravity, and yes that's what would be needed to levitate, but to overcome gravity you have to jump higher than 30 inches and the speed is high.
mv^2/r = gMm/r^2
v = sqrt(gM/r)
M being the mass of the earth.
There's a reason satelites don't orbit at 30 inches.
excellent post, overdrive.
anyway, if math or physics bore you to death, just skip this post.
i guess since overdrive already laid down some math, i'll add a little more.
anyway, this is how to calculate hang time, which might be interesting to readers or not:
d=1/2*g*t^2.
so from that, we can calculate that t =(2*d/g)^0.5
d is distance from the ground or apex of the jump; g is obviously gravity, which is about 9.8m/s^2; and t is time in seconds.
so if someone is jumping 6 inches, d = 6 inches, or 0.1524m
t = (2*(0.1524m)/(9.8m/s2))^0.5 = 0.176 sec (time to reach the apex)
but since he also has to come back down to the ground from the apex, we simply double that to get total hang time because gravity is working at the same rate for going up and coming down.
the hang time of a 6 inch vert is, therefore, 0.352s. it might be a little bit more since he's probably landing with bent legs, but that's nitpicking shit.
but still, with all other parameters equal, it doesn't matter if the jumper is moving at an extreme velocity or standing still because g (9.8m/s^2) is constant, and the d is exactly the same.
so you can't fudge the formula to add or decrease time given the same exact inputs. only extreme circumstances like when air resistance becomes prominent might change time in the air. but we mostly don't deal with those extremely abnormal measurements down here. so those things virtually have no effect on a jumper's hang time.
but anyway, for anyone curious, it requires a 48 inch vertical leap to reach a 1-second hang time. you can easily plug in the numbers into the formula above to figure this out.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 06:59 AM
that does not make any mathematical sense in physics.
an imaginary man running at 1000m/s who leaps 30 inches will be in the air as long as the guy who just stands as jumps 30 inches. the man running obviously exerts a lot more energy, but if the apex of his leap is same as the apex of the standing jumper, then they have the same hang time. the energy he exerts is going forward, not upward. unless he leaps higher than 30 inches, he will have the same hangtime as a standing man jumping 30 inches.
this is the case because gravity is constant, and i'll prove it you. the guy who runs and jumps would decelerate in the air by 9.8m/s/s before his upward velocity stops mid-air before accelerating back to earth at 9.8m/s/s.
the guy who simply stands and jumps is also decelerating his upward path by 9.8m/s/s before pausing in midair momentarily and falling back down at 9.8m/s/s. it does not change regardless of lateral movement.
because the gravitational pull is totally constant here. and in order for for the running guy to have more hangtime (with the same vert), he'd have to slow gravity down and make it weaker than 9.8m/s/s, and that's just not reality.
you might get that on another planet, but not on earth.
ah yes my friend please forgive an old man his sleep.
All this is very interesting, this conversation about the constant of gravity and its effect on all bodies in motion or stationary. But as i have mentioned several times you have to consider the work done before they reach apex; the change in kinetic energy and also the escape velocity are different.
It appears you are ignoring velocity and energy going up.... and are assuming all along here that both basketball players have identical leaps. Yes, yes they are both bound by laws of gravity; but it's the initial leap which you are not accounting for here. If one accelerates faster, you see, he has more time in the air.
It's been many many years since I've looked into all these things. But an excellent view of this, without leaving classical mechanics, is found in Lorentz, as I recall. let's see here........ wikipedia will probably do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
The fellow who moves more slowly and exerts less force.... has less time in the air before gravity begins to overcome his flight: but more simply, one travels in the air longer than the other because his initial kinetic energy is higher. It's like loading more grains in our artillery shell; it will stay in the air longer than a lesser loaded shell, and travel farther because it has more force behind it.
Possibly we're talking about two different things, but it seems you are considering Jordan & Payton to be moving with precisely the same velocity and force, as if those were constants like gravity.
every good wish.
Overdrive
03-01-2016, 07:17 AM
ah yes my friend please forgive an old man his sleep.
All this is very interesting, this conversation about the constant of gravity and its effect on all bodies in motion or stationary. But as i have mentioned several times you have to consider the work done before they reach apex; the change in kinetic energy and also the escape velocity are different.
It appears you are ignoring velocity and energy going up.... and are assuming all along here that both basketball players have identical leaps. Yes, yes they are both bound by laws of gravity; but it's the initial leap which you are not accounting for here. If one accelerates faster, you see, he has more time in the air.
It's been many many years since I've looked into all these things. But an excellent view of this, without leaving classical mechanics, is found in Lorentz, as I recall. let's see here........ wikipedia will probably do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
The fellow who moves more slowly and exerts less force.... has less time in the air before gravity begins to overcome his flight: but more simply, one travels in the air longer than the other because his initial kinetic energy is higher. It's like loading more grains in our artillery shell; it will stay in the air longer than a lesser loaded shell, and travel farther because it has more force behind it.
Possibly we're talking about two different things, but it seems you are considering Jordan & Payton to be moving with precisely the same velocity and force, as if those were constants like gravity.
every good wish.
If x accelerates more and is faster the moment he jumps than y at the same angle he will jump higher than y and thus staying longer in the air. Some peak same time in the air, there's no arguing about it.
To have the same apex at a different angle you need a different speed.
Payton and Jordan are moving at different speeds and force that's why one jumps higher or further than the other.
There's no arguing about it.
Escape velocity would not result in a 30 inch apex. Escape velocity by definition is the velocity needed to escape gravity either by orbiting v1 or leaving the gravity field as a whole v2.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 07:34 AM
If x accelerates more and is faster the moment he jumps than y at the same angle he will jump higher than y and thus staying longer in the air. Some peak same time in the air, there's no arguing about it.
To have the same apex at a different angle you need a different speed.
Payton and Jordan are moving at different speeds and force that's why one jumps higher or further than the other.
There's no arguing about it.
Escape velocity would not result in a 30 inch apex. Escape velocity by definition is the velocity needed to escape gravity either by orbiting v1 or leaving the gravity field as a whole v2.
who's arguing? 'lthey are moving at different speeds and force that's why one jumps higher or further' is exactly my point.
Time = Distance/Speed.
that's it really. If Mike travels 20 feet with a max apex of 20 inches, he spends more time in the air than Glove does if he has the same apex but only goes 10 feet.
it appears you are thinking only in parabolas. What if Mike travels 3 or 6 or 10 feet at his apex while Glove only touches 20 inches for a brief instant and starts back down?
JohnFreeman
03-01-2016, 07:57 AM
Wade use to float through the air
aj1987
03-01-2016, 08:00 AM
Wade use to float through the air
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5EeVLK8XWQ
Seems like dude just paused in mid-air.
ah yes my friend please forgive an old man his sleep.
All this is very interesting, this conversation about the constant of gravity and its effect on all bodies in motion or stationary. But as i have mentioned several times you have to consider the work done before they reach apex; the change in kinetic energy and also the escape velocity are different.
It appears you are ignoring velocity and energy going up.... and are assuming all along here that both basketball players have identical leaps. Yes, yes they are both bound by laws of gravity; but it's the initial leap which you are not accounting for here. If one accelerates faster, you see, he has more time in the air.
It's been many many years since I've looked into all these things. But an excellent view of this, without leaving classical mechanics, is found in Lorentz, as I recall. let's see here........ wikipedia will probably do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
The fellow who moves more slowly and exerts less force.... has less time in the air before gravity begins to overcome his flight: but more simply, one travels in the air longer than the other because his initial kinetic energy is higher. It's like loading more grains in our artillery shell; it will stay in the air longer than a lesser loaded shell, and travel farther because it has more force behind it.
Possibly we're talking about two different things, but it seems you are considering Jordan & Payton to be moving with precisely the same velocity and force, as if those were constants like gravity.
every good wish.
okay, you said: " If one accelerates faster, you see, he has more time in the air."
well, if he accelerates faster (assuming you're talking about upward acceleration), then he should have a higher vertical leap than the guy with lower initial upward acceleration. if both guys have the same vertical leap though, then both went up with the same exact upward acceleration at take-off.
okay, i'll try to break it down... but can we first both agree that the time from take off to apex = time from apex to ground?
take a 48 inch leaper, for example, who has a 1-second hangtime -- it would take him 0.5sec for him to go from take off to midpoint (apex), and also 0.5sec for him to fall from very same apex to ground. the acceleration at each height for either going up or going down are practically mirrors of each other. you with me here?
so knowing this, by the time a jumper reaches the absolute apex, his upward acceleration would had been perfectly cancelled by gravity, so he would be at zero right before the descent. it wouldn't matter if he was running or just jumping straight up from that point because from that very apex point, both guys would get pulled down by gravity at the same constant rate fall to the ground at the same time if they fell from the same exact height.
are you still with me? isaac newton did these experiments a few hundred years ago. if you don't trust me, trust him. ;)
so if both guys (one guy running and another being stationary) both fall at the same exact time from the same height of the jump, then both should also have the same exact total hang time in the air because, as stated before, the time to go up = the time to go down. they're mirrors of each other.
this is the formula i'm applying:
total hang time =[(2*d/g)^0.5 ] * 2
so as long as d (apex of vertical leap) is the same, then t (time) will also be identical.
ascent time = descent time for a human jumper. no extreme examples. just keeping it simple.
if you're still not in agreement, feel free to post some math proofs.
swagga
03-01-2016, 08:20 AM
who's arguing? 'lthey are moving at different speeds and force that's why one jumps higher or further' is exactly my point.
Time = Distance/Speed.
that's it really. If Mike travels 20 feet with a max apex of 20 inches, he spends more time in the air than Glove does if he has the same apex but only goes 10 feet.
it appears you are thinking only in parabolas. What if Mike travels 3 or 6 or 10 feet at his apex while Glove only touches 20 inches for a brief instant and starts back down?
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :lebronamazed: :crazysam:
fck physics tbh. :roll:
raprap
03-01-2016, 08:32 AM
I'm not a big fan of Wiggins, but he reminds me of MJ as a two footed jumper. Seems to adjust his body in the air a tad longer just like MJ.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 08:39 AM
okay, you said: " If one accelerates faster, you see, he has more time in the air."
well, if he accelerates faster (assuming you're talking about upward acceleration), then he should have a higher vertical leap than the guy with lower initial upward acceleration. if both guys have the same vertical leap though, then both went up with the same exact upward acceleration at take-off.
okay, i'll try to break it down... but can we first both agree that the time from take off to apex = time from apex to ground?
take a 48 inch leaper, for example, who has a 1-second hangtime -- it would take him 0.5sec for him to go from take off to midpoint (apex), and also 0.5sec for him to fall from very same apex to ground. the acceleration at each height for either going up or going down are practically mirrors of each other. you with me here?
so knowing this, by the time a jumper reaches the absolute apex, his upward acceleration would had been perfectly cancelled by gravity, so he would be at zero right before the descent. it wouldn't matter if he was running or just jumping straight up from that point because from that very apex point, both guys would get pulled down by gravity at the same constant rate fall to the ground at the same time if they fell from the same exact height.
are you still with me? isaac newton did these experiments a few hundred years ago. if you don't trust me, trust him. ;)
so if both guys (one guy running and another being stationary) both fall at the same exact time from the same height of the jump, then both should also have the same exact total hang time in the air because, as stated before, the time to go up = the time to go down. they're mirrors of each other.
this is the formula i'm applying:
total hang time =[(2*d/g)^0.5 ] * 2
so as long as d (apex of vertical leap) is the same, then t (time) will also be identical.
ascent time = descent time for a human jumper. no extreme examples. just keeping it simple.
if you're still not in agreement, feel free to post some math proofs.
I'm good bro me and overdrive already corrected/refuted you on the last page.
who's arguing? 'lthey are moving at different speeds and force that's why one jumps higher or further' is exactly my point.
Time = Distance/Speed.
that's it really. If Mike travels 20 feet with a max apex of 20 inches, he spends more time in the air than Glove does if he has the same apex but only goes 10 feet.
it appears you are thinking only in parabolas. What if Mike travels 3 or 6 or 10 feet at his apex while Glove only touches 20 inches for a brief instant and starts back down?
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 08:42 AM
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :lebronamazed: :crazysam:
fck physics tbh. :roll:
I know right? :lol
I'm good bro me and overdrive already corrected/refuted you on the last page.
overdrive was refuting and correcting *you.* not me. :oldlol:
If Mike travels 20 feet with a max apex of 20 inches, he spends more time in the air than Glove does if he has the same apex but only goes 10 feet.
so according to your way, exactly how long will mike spend in the air?
how exactly long will payton spend in the air?
prove it with math.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 09:17 AM
overdrive was refuting and correcting *you.* not me. :oldlol:
.
so according to your way, exactly how long will mike spend in the air?
how exactly long will payton spend in the air?
prove it with math.
No sir. Read my posts again. You fail to account for changes in velocity and kinetic energy.
And, no thanks, I already did. Read my posts again. Better still, review Lorentz.
No sir. Read my posts again. You fail to account for changes in velocity and kinetic energy.
And, no thanks, I already did. Read my posts again. Better still, review Lorentz.
yup, i didn't expect you to be able to come up with any proof.
you cannot provide any math proof because you are wrong.
:oldlol:
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 09:28 AM
overdrive was refuting and correcting *you.* not me. :oldlol:
so according to your way, exactly how long will mike spend in the air?
how exactly long will payton spend in the air?
prove it with math.
Time = Distance / Speed bro.
ISHGoat
03-01-2016, 09:29 AM
Holy ****ing shit. I cannot believe there are this many ignorant folks on ISH arguing about gravity.
ONLY THE VERTICAL PORTION IS AFFECTED BY GRAVITY.
In other words, horizontal distance in a jump is completely irrelevant to how long that jumper stays in the air.
This is literally a basic fundamental fact they teach in grade 11 physics in North America, grade 4 in China and India.
swagga
03-01-2016, 09:30 AM
I know right? :lol
bro you are either trolling at some 4th grader level that even dubeta/3ball at their worst don't go or you are CRINGE-level WRONG
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 09:31 AM
Time = Distance / Speed bro.
Get it yet?
ISHGoat
03-01-2016, 09:33 AM
Get it yet?
Do you get it yet? The person that jumps 10cm upwards and 10m forwards probably has massive power output in his legs but for that one specific jump, he's in the air for the same time as a guy that jumps 10cm up and 10 cm forward.
Time = Distance / Speed bro.
this equation of time is so ultra simple and totally irrelevant to height and gravity.
it's not used to calculate hang time.
this is absolutely the wrong ass formula to use. lol
you are either trolling or you really just don't know what you're talking about.
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 09:34 AM
Holy ****ing shit. I cannot believe there are this many ignorant folks on ISH arguing about gravity.
ONLY THE VERTICAL PORTION IS AFFECTED BY GRAVITY.
In other words, horizontal distance in a jump is completely irrelevant to how long that jumper stays in the air.
This is literally a basic fundamental fact they teach in grade 11 physics in North America, grade 4 in China and India.
Holy cow.
So if a guy jumps 6 inch vertical and travels 2 feet, he spends the same time in the air as someone who jumps 6 inches vertical but travels 20 feet?
Show me some of that crack lol
ISHGoat
03-01-2016, 09:39 AM
Holy cow.
So if a guy jumps 6 inch vertical and travels 2 feet, he spends the same time in the air as someone who jumps 6 inches vertical but travels 20 feet?
Show me some of that crack lol
Ok now I know you're just trolling. You arguing this is like someone arguing that the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth. It's nonsense. Stop it.
fragokota
03-01-2016, 10:09 AM
You're still not getting it. If I take a running start and do a long jump with a 30 inch peak height, I'm staying in the air just as long as a guy who jumps straight up 30 inches.
It's impossible to do a long jump and reach the same peak as a straight jump cause we assume that the peak reached when jumping straight is when maximum force is applied. If the same force (maximum) is applied in a long jump that the object travels both horizontaly and vertically it is impossible to reach the same peak (30 inches in your example). That was the wrong assumption in the OP.
http://www.tinket.com.au/img/products/product_large_image-a8868df15a5c30e1ce094c5f84831c98.jpg
Take this protractor as an example. If we assume the same force is applied in both jumps (vertical & long jump), the radius of the in air jump will be the same, but the peak height of the diagonal jump (let's say 45 degrees) will be lower than the peak of the vertical jump compared to ground level.
swagga
03-01-2016, 10:19 AM
this thread ... you can't make this up tbh :roll: :roll:
sons I know the education system is not what it was and all that, especially under obama, but lord have mercy on our country if this is today's level of education.
swagga
03-01-2016, 10:24 AM
It's impossible to do a long jump and reach the same peak as a straight jump cause we assume that the peak reached when jumping straight is when maximum force is applied. If the same force (maximum) is applied in a long jump that the object travels both horizontaly and vertically it is impossible to reach the same peak (30 inches in your example). That was the wrong assumption in the OP.
http://www.tinket.com.au/img/products/product_large_image-a8868df15a5c30e1ce094c5f84831c98.jpg
Take this protractor as an example. If we assume the same force is applied in both jumps (vertical & long jump), the radius of the in air jump will be the same, but the peak height of the diagonal jump (let's say 45 degrees) will be lower than the peak of the vertical jump compared to ground level.
actually that is correct only if you do a long jump from standing still, otherwise if you run into the jump you already have a horizontal velocity independent of your pre-jump exerted force.
fragokota
03-01-2016, 10:27 AM
actually that is correct only if you do a long jump from standing still, otherwise if you run into the jump you already have a horizontal velocity independent of your pre-jump exerted force.
We are assuming all other factors are the same bro.This goes without saying...
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 10:34 AM
this thread ... you can't make this up tbh :roll: :roll:
sons I know the education system is not what it was and all that, especially under obama, but lord have mercy on our country if this is today's level of education.
It really is just amazing, swag.
These guys on here thinking if they fire a bullet... and throw a rock at the same time..... same vertical height.... That rock is going to spend the same time in the air as the bullet flying out that freaking Glock.
And then when I even give them the formula they still don't believe it.
Kinetic energy is beyond their comprehension obviously.
f0und
03-01-2016, 10:36 AM
Holy cow.
So if a guy jumps 6 inch vertical and travels 2 feet, he spends the same time in the air as someone who jumps 6 inches vertical but travels 20 feet?
Show me some of that crack lol
The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land?
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 10:44 AM
The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land?
:roll:
Well you have to know these things when you're a king :rockon:
Overdrive
03-01-2016, 11:05 AM
who's arguing? 'lthey are moving at different speeds and force that's why one jumps higher or further' is exactly my point.
Time = Distance/Speed.
that's it really. If Mike travels 20 feet with a max apex of 20 inches, he spends more time in the air than Glove does if he has the same apex but only goes 10 feet.
it appears you are thinking only in parabolas. What if Mike travels 3 or 6 or 10 feet at his apex while Glove only touches 20 inches for a brief instant and starts back down?
v = s/t applies to average speed. That's for statistics but physics work with instantaneous speeds.
vx= v0 cos(a); vz = v0 sin(a) - gt
and herein lies the answer. There's no force involved in horizontal movement.
Those look like simple numeric equations, but they're simplified and are the first deduction of the trajectory for throwing objects.
About the prolonging the apex:
That's nice, but that's not how it works unless you have wings and fly, then you apply the force that is needed to not fall down. Basically upthrust(static - floating on water) or lift(dynamic - airplane) helps here a bit.
Neither Jordan or Payton can fly. The temporal point of apex is infinitesimal small and of course it's a parabola. For a realistic object, as a human being is, the trajectory is done by the system's center of mass/gravity - and that still is a parabol throw. What makes Jordan and others appear to float is pulling the legs in direction of the center of mass, but that doesn't change physics.
I didn't debunk DCL. I'm actually on the same page.
As a side note, although I didn't finish it, I studied physics and you can trust me on that.
It really is just amazing, swag.
These guys on here thinking if they fire a bullet... and throw a rock at the same time..... same vertical height.... That rock is going to spend the same time in the air as the bullet flying out that freaking Glock.
And then when I even give them the formula they still don't believe it.
Kinetic energy is beyond their comprehension obviously.
Kinetic energy is not beyond my comprehension, but shooting a bullet straight forward is different than throwing something upwards. If you shoot a bullet with 300m/s at an angle of 20
3ball
03-01-2016, 11:10 AM
LBJ holds the in game crown
And last, but not least, the furthest dunk ever done in game.
http://i63.tinypic.com/2py41me.jpg
MJ's dunk vs. Phoenix matches it - it's from a diagonal angle, so MJ's heel is 15 feet away just like Lebron's heel:
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9DPD6M5xAN1btbsA/giphy.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgFv5k6r5t4&t=4m34s
https://media.giphy.com/media/TVQpSDvPgyJz2/giphy.gif
MJ was an equal leaper off one-foot (although I still haven't seen Lebron double-pump or co ck it back from the FT line like MJ), and a far superior leaper off two feet:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11635477&postcount=47
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11635478&postcount=48
.
ISHGoat
03-01-2016, 11:34 AM
[QUOTE=Overdrive]v = s/t applies to average speed. That's for statistics but physics work with instantaneous speeds.
vx= v0 cos(a); vz = v0 sin(a) - gt
and herein lies the answer. There's no force involved in horizontal movement.
Those look like simple numeric equations, but they're simplified and are the first deduction of the trajectory for throwing objects.
About the prolonging the apex:
That's nice, but that's not how it works unless you have wings and fly, then you apply the force that is needed to not fall down. Basically upthrust(static - floating on water) or lift(dynamic - airplane) helps here a bit.
Neither Jordan or Payton can fly. The temporal point of apex is infinitesimal small and of course it's a parabola. For a realistic object, as a human being is, the trajectory is done by the system's center of mass/gravity - and that still is a parabol throw. What makes Jordan and others appear to float is pulling the legs in direction of the center of mass, but that doesn't change physics.
I didn't debunk DCL. I'm actually on the same page.
As a side note, although I didn't finish it, I studied physics and you can trust me on that.
Kinetic energy is not beyond my comprehension, but shooting a bullet straight forward is different than throwing something upwards. If you shoot a bullet with 300m/s at an angle of 20
La Frescobaldi
03-01-2016, 11:35 AM
[QUOTE=Overdrive]v = s/t applies to average speed. That's for statistics but physics work with instantaneous speeds.
vx= v0 cos(a); vz = v0 sin(a) - gt
and herein lies the answer. There's no force involved in horizontal movement.
Those look like simple numeric equations, but they're simplified and are the first deduction of the trajectory for throwing objects.
About the prolonging the apex:
That's nice, but that's not how it works unless you have wings and fly, then you apply the force that is needed to not fall down. Basically upthrust(static - floating on water) or lift(dynamic - airplane) helps here a bit.
Neither Jordan or Payton can fly. The temporal point of apex is infinitesimal small and of course it's a parabola. For a realistic object, as a human being is, the trajectory is done by the system's center of mass/gravity - and that still is a parabol throw. What makes Jordan and others appear to float is pulling the legs in direction of the center of mass, but that doesn't change physics.
I didn't debunk DCL. I'm actually on the same page.
As a side note, although I didn't finish it, I studied physics and you can trust me on that.
Kinetic energy is not beyond my comprehension, but shooting a bullet straight forward is different than throwing something upwards. If you shoot a bullet with 300m/s at an angle of 20
Overdrive
03-01-2016, 12:13 PM
It is bro.
What happens if you have no angle? point blank horizontal shot. does the line drive rock stay in the air as long as the line drive bullet? does it fly as far?
Of course once they reach point of descent they fall at the same rate; the point is the power behind the leap, or throw, or shot.
Yes, in vacuum the bullet "falls" down and descends the moment it leaves the barrel and the falling time would be actually the same. What keeps the bullet in the air is dynamic lift. The thing that makes an aeroplane fly.
As said, Jordan doesn't have wings and he's not fast enough for his shape to start levitating. Just stare at the rim of his trousers in 3ball's gif. It's obvious his "flight" is parabole.
It is bro.
What happens if you have no angle? point blank horizontal shot. does the line drive rock stay in the air as long as the line drive bullet? does it fly as far?
Of course once they reach point of descent they fall at the same rate; the point is the power behind the leap, or throw, or shot.
you are using cartoon road runner physics, dude.
when the wild coyote runs off a cliff, the kinetic energy from his velocity does not make him run straight out 30 ft on an invisible horizontal line first before gravity finally takes on its effect and pulls him down to "splat."
that's cartoon physics. :oldlol:
there's no delay in gravity and the horizontal velocity is irrelevant here.
andgar923
03-01-2016, 12:41 PM
MJ's dunk vs. Phoenix matches it - it's from a diagonal angle, so MJ's heel is 15 feet away just like Lebron's heel:
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9DPD6M5xAN1btbsA/giphy.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgFv5k6r5t4&t=4m34s
https://media.giphy.com/media/TVQpSDvPgyJz2/giphy.gif
MJ was an equal leaper off one-foot (although I still haven't seen Lebron double-pump or co ck it back from the FT line like MJ), and a far superior leaper off two feet:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11635477&postcount=47
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11635478&postcount=48
.
Or the dunk on laimbeer, there was also a dunk vs the Celtics that I've been unable to find.
sportjames23
03-01-2016, 01:00 PM
MJ easily the GOAT dunker between dunking with either one or two feet. Most players are primarily one (Lebron, Larry Nance, Wade, etc.) or two feet (Dominique, etc.). Maybe Vince and Kobe could dunk easily between one and two feet like MJ.
Height Freak
03-01-2016, 01:03 PM
MJ's dunk vs. Phoenix matches it - it's from a diagonal angle, so MJ's heel is 15 feet away just like Lebron's heel:
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9DPD6M5xAN1btbsA/giphy.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgFv5k6r5t4&t=4m34s
https://media.giphy.com/media/TVQpSDvPgyJz2/giphy.gif
MJ was an equal leaper off one-foot (although I still haven't seen Lebron double-pump or co ck it back from the FT line like MJ), and a far superior leaper off two feet:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11635477&postcount=47
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11635478&postcount=48
.
Also. MJ had more air to cover with less height and wingspan than Lebron.
Height Freak
03-01-2016, 01:13 PM
https://45.media.tumblr.com/10ae495a9be2482d308330539a0554a6/tumblr_nnc4k9lIMW1sdydefo1_400.gif
https://i1.wp.com/media3.giphy.com/media/lJSklmWxu9zmE/giphy.gif
http://49.media.tumblr.com/aaf10e42662d8546a83e089183a46f16/tumblr_n9lomzH5I71sdydefo1_400.gif
http://45.media.tumblr.com/cf737e980f39d07da67ba6d819bce5b9/tumblr_ntecp15FfL1sdydefo1_500.gif
https://45.media.tumblr.com/779bb5cc6f28d2c8bfa4545e990197d4/tumblr_notirlCoBm1sdydefo1_400.gif
f0und
03-01-2016, 01:31 PM
:roll:
Well you have to know these things when you're a king :rockon:
I didn't vote for you.
3ball
03-01-2016, 02:37 PM
Or the dunk on laimbeer, there was also a dunk vs the Celtics that I've been unable to find.
Here's the dunk vs. Laimbeer - he takes off from under a foot inside the FT line, from a DIAGONAL angle:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2015/orR3N3.gif
What year was the Celtics' dunk and was it home or away?
Spurs m8
03-01-2016, 02:56 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m90qtjujHz1rnt56ho1_400.gif
Still the dumbest layup ever
You are actually a stupid ****
You are actually a stupid ****
Dang, censored. I guess I'll never know which 4 letter word you used.
CuterThanRubio
03-01-2016, 05:27 PM
MJ's dunk vs. Phoenix matches it - it's from a diagonal angle, so MJ's heel is 15 feet away just like Lebron's heel:
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9DPD6M5xAN1btbsA/giphy.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgFv5k6r5t4&t=4m34s
https://media.giphy.com/media/TVQpSDvPgyJz2/giphy.gif
MJ was an equal leaper off one-foot (although I still haven't seen Lebron double-pump or co ck it back from the FT line like MJ), and a far superior leaper off two feet:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11635477&postcount=47
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11635478&postcount=48
.
I figured you were searching frantically for a gif response, but no, LeBron's dunk is still further from the basket, he literally has inches of paint behind his heel, and even if you decide to compensate for the different angle MJ is still too deep beyond the line to match up.
If you take the image of MJ and rotate his foot towards the line it is still a foot and a half inside lol, nice try, I love it when people try to dispute VISUAL evidence.
LeBron is the best 1 footed dunker in basketball history.
CuterThanRubio
03-01-2016, 05:36 PM
http://i66.tinypic.com/2054nix.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/4ic1et.jpg
Clearly not the same distance, but in your mind they both jumped from 15 feet out?
You could fit TWO of MJ's shoes in the space behind his foot. Come on now, you aren't winning this one.
:roll:
3ball
03-01-2016, 06:47 PM
http://i66.tinypic.com/2054nix.jpg
I figured you were searching frantically for a gif response, but no, LeBron's dunk is still further from the basket, he literally has inches of paint behind his heel, and even if you decide to compensate for the different angle MJ is still too deep beyond the line to match up.
It isn't about DECIDING to compensate for the diagonal angle, it's MANDATORY to any feasible analysis - it's geometry..MJ's back heel is 15 feet away, which is all that matters.
CuterThanRubio
03-01-2016, 07:12 PM
It isn't about DECIDING to compensate for the diagonal angle, it's MANDATORY to any feasible analysis - it's geometry..MJ's back heel is 15 feet away, which is all that matters.
Cliffhanger! You are losing grip, desperately clawing at something to grasp onto, but it isn't going to stop you from falling this time!
Examine the pictures as long as you need to and think of a better excuse next time.
There isn't a single logical, non MJ-stan that agrees with you, because they CAN'T, the evidence is in your face.
Overdrive
03-01-2016, 08:09 PM
It isn't about DECIDING to compensate for the diagonal angle, it's MANDATORY to any feasible analysis - it's geometry..MJ's back heel is 15 feet away, which is all that matters.
Cliffhanger! You are losing grip, desperately clawing at something to grasp onto, but it isn't going to stop you from falling this time!
Examine the pictures as long as you need to and think of a better excuse next time.
There isn't a single logical, non MJ-stan that agrees with you, because they CAN'T, the evidence is in your face.
I don't like 3ball, actually I had a few disputes with him so far, I don't like Jordan, but he is right on this one.
If Lebron is about 1/3 foot (~10cm) inside the ft line, at the angle Jordan leaps he could jump from 1 1/2 foot (~47cm) inside the ft line if you draw a parallel line from the center of the paint.
GrapeApe
03-01-2016, 08:34 PM
Hang time is really about body control. As has been discussed, simple physics tells us that the higher you jump, the more time you spend in the air. However, in basketball terms hang time is the combination of leaping ability and the ability to make moves in the air. There are players who jump high but lack agility and body control throughout their leap. Those players do not have good "basketball" hang time (or practical hang time). Some players may not be exceptional leapers but they maintain complete body control from the time they jump until the time they hit the floor. That's what gives the illusion that they are in the air longer than they really are.
Jordan had arguably the best combination of both skills. He was a great leaper, though maybe not the best, but his body control was absolutely elite. He could finish plays on the way down better than anyone I've ever seen.
FillJackson
03-01-2016, 08:37 PM
http://cdn.cavemancircus.com//wp-content/uploads/images/2016/february/funny_pictures_of_the_day/2_22/funny_pictures_of_the_day_14.jpg
:bowdown:
What is happening in this photo?
CuterThanRubio
03-01-2016, 09:11 PM
I don't like 3ball, actually I had a few disputes with him so far, I don't like Jordan, but he is right on this one.
If Lebron is about 1/3 foot (~10cm) inside the ft line, at the angle Jordan leaps he could jump from 1 1/2 foot (~47cm) inside the ft line if you draw a parallel line from the center of the paint.
LOL
You can use all of the mathematical bullsh!t you want to, doesn't change the fact that LeBron has the LONGEST dunk ever recorded in game.
Look at the pictures, this is not arguable, it is what it is.
BTW: Love how you just came up with those measurements off the top, you aren't on the court with a ruler, STFU with that BS, It's over!
andgar923
03-01-2016, 10:35 PM
Here's the dunk vs. Laimbeer - he takes off from under a foot inside the FT line, from a DIAGONAL angle:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2015/orR3N3.gif
What year was the Celtics' dunk and was it home or away?
I honestly don't remember what year, but it was on the road.
The clip is online somewhere, the camera didn't fully capture it so you need to look close. There was also another vs the Suns in which he took off from around 15 or so.
andgar923
03-01-2016, 10:38 PM
LOL
You can use all of the mathematical bullsh!t you want to, doesn't change the fact that LeBron has the LONGEST dunk ever recorded in game.
Look at the pictures, this is not arguable, it is what it is.
BTW: Love how you just came up with those measurements off the top, you aren't on the court with a ruler, STFU with that BS, It's over!
Dunking from an angle IS farther than a straight approach.
wow, people have trouble with "a-squared + b-squared = c-squared" too?
CuterThanRubio
03-01-2016, 10:58 PM
Dunking from an angle IS farther than a straight approach.
Did you type this without comparing the pictures?
It would be if he was closer to the line, but he is a few steps inside.
LeBron is still further away no matter how you slice it.
dreamwarrior
03-01-2016, 11:19 PM
He was just better at making a shot on the way down than anyone. Most guys nowadays can adjust themselves in the air but still let the ball go near the peak of their jump.
Height Freak
03-02-2016, 10:40 PM
It would be if he was closer to the line, but he is a few steps inside.
LeBron is still further away no matter how you slice it.
Even is Lebron is further away, technically he has less distance to cover in the air since he is taller and has a larger wingspan than MJ.
CuterThanRubio
03-02-2016, 10:57 PM
Even is Lebron is further away, technically he has less distance to cover in the air since he is taller and has a larger wingspan than MJ.
Seriously, I'm smiling every time I see another artificially manufactured excuse.
"even if"
No, HE IS further away, look at the pictures and you will see irrefutable evidence so support such a claim.
LeBron has the longest dunk in game and these MJ fanboys can't stand it, just deal!
Straight_Ballin
03-02-2016, 11:05 PM
LOL
You can use all of the mathematical bullsh!t you want to, doesn't change the fact that LeBron has the LONGEST dunk ever recorded in game.
Look at the pictures, this is not arguable, it is what it is.
BTW: Love how you just came up with those measurements off the top, you aren't on the court with a ruler, STFU with that BS, It's over!
He also has the shortest dick of any NBA player ever recorded on live TV.
You can stare at the pictures as long as you want hoping that it's not true, but this is not arguable, it is what it is. :lol
OldSchoolBBall
03-02-2016, 11:14 PM
He has so many great hangtime plays, but I've always LOVED this one. Just so slick and amazing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qvEmm-sZbU#t=18m02s
Elosha
03-03-2016, 01:05 PM
He has so many great hangtime plays, but I've always LOVED this one. Just so slick and amazing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qvEmm-sZbU#t=18m02s
Agreed! One of my all time favorite hang time moves as well. He was absolutely soaring on that play.
Straight_Ballin
03-03-2016, 01:53 PM
You look at MJ and then you look in the last 18 years at what anyone has been able to accomplish.
We're not asking anyone to go 6/6 with 6 FMVP.... just show us someone that can demonstrate the hang time like MJ did with as many highlight moves showcasing it as MJ has.
It doesn't exist, and that is just one of the many reason why the current NBA is an inferior product. Still watchable, but inferior none the less. If this offends someone who has never seen MJ and can't relate to how the NBA back then compares to now, tough shit. Just be thankful that those who did watch MJ live are taking the time out of their day to even tell you about it. A negative response to any of this just means your an ungrateful bastard.
senelcoolidge
03-03-2016, 02:03 PM
^ In the video when they started showing the 1992 playoffs against the Knicks. Damn, they gave you no room to operate, it was stifling. So aggressive. No friends, they hated each other. Nothing like today's buddy softy game.
Xavier McDaniel: "This is a man's game".
What's impressive is MJ's body control going up against that physical play. Few easy open lay ups.
Straight_Ballin
03-03-2016, 02:09 PM
^ In the video when they started showing the 1992 playoffs against the Knicks. Damn, they gave you no room to operate, it was stifling. So aggressive. No friends, they hated each other. Nothing like today's buddy softy game.
Xavier McDaniel: "This is a man's game".
What's impressive is MJ's body control going up against that physical play. Few easy open lay ups.
I love listening to these ****ing clueless current era stans marvel about how great the rivalries are in today's game. :lol They have no clue what a rivalry is. Their upbringing in sports since 5 years of age consisted of them getting a trophy even though they lost.
To them, opposing team players laughing and hanging out after the game with each other equates to a rivalry. :lol
Height Freak
03-03-2016, 02:47 PM
Seriously, I'm smiling every time I see another artificially manufactured excuse.
"even if"
No, HE IS further away, look at the pictures and you will see irrefutable evidence so support such a claim.
LeBron has the longest dunk in game and these MJ fanboys can't stand it, just deal!
It's not artificial. It doesn't matter who is a little further away, the fact remains in the distance the player has to travel to get to the rim. This is why I said "technically".
If 2 players jump from the same point (a) to another (b), it's a fact that the player with less height and less arm length (smaller player) will have to cover more distance in the air from point a to b.
A 6'4.88" guy with a 6'11" wingspan is going to have to cover more air than a 6'6.75" guy with a 7'0.25" wingspan.
ReturnofJPR
03-03-2016, 02:50 PM
Maybe Vinsanity, that's Vince Carter for the youngins', before the knee injuries in T-Dot.
It's not artificial. It doesn't matter who is a little further away, the fact remains in the distance the player has to travel to get to the rim. This is why I said "technically".
If 2 players jump from the same point (a) to another (b), it's a fact that the player with less height and less arm length (smaller player) will have to cover more distance in the air from point a to b.
A 6'4.88" guy with a 6'11" wingspan is going to have to cover more air than a 6'6.75" guy with a 7'0.25" wingspan.
I completely get what you are saying, but your wording is terrible.
CuterThanRubio
03-03-2016, 03:38 PM
It's not artificial. It doesn't matter who is a little further away, the fact remains in the distance the player has to travel to get to the rim. This is why I said "technically".
If 2 players jump from the same point (a) to another (b), it's a fact that the player with less height and less arm length (smaller player) will have to cover more distance in the air from point a to b.
A 6'4.88" guy with a 6'11" wingspan is going to have to cover more air than a 6'6.75" guy with a 7'0.25" wingspan.
Nerds like you can base your entire existence arguing "technicalities", it doesn't change reality.
LeBron jumped from further, and it's not by just a little, two entire shoe lengths for MJ vs INCHES, you can't truly be trying to convince yourself they leaped from the same distance after looking at the pictures unless you are some tinfoil hat wearing weirdo because that is the vibe I'm getting.
Don't forget to bring your ruler to the court next time you shoot some hoops!
3ball
03-03-2016, 04:16 PM
.
MJ is the only player in history that routinely took hangtime jumpshots ON PURPOSE, as a regular part of his game:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2015/McLuKl.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/BPuQS38pmBicU/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/xYooZyhilqRvG/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/t5qbCYwmWVWRG/giphy.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-28-2015/ew2ZUl.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-25-2015/sKMzUP.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/2IzM3uh4nOgFO/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/ZkiVauQdlJy92/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/lU20Jne3of5WU/giphy.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-23-2015/dMLr8y.gif
Today's player rarely attempts these shots and would be benched if they did - why attempt super-contested midrange shots when you can take advantage of floor-spreading teammates to get easy layups or 3-pointers??
Otoh, the 3-pointer/layups strategy wasn't possible in MJ's era, since MJ didn't have teammates spacing the floor for him (no 3-pointers), which made the middle clogged up (no layups)... MJ didn't have today's spacing (floor-spreading teammates) to open up the middle for today's layups.
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