Kenny Smith just said Kawhi is a top-5 player in the world

[ace23]

lol

[InsanityKills]

lol
lol

[warriorfan]

and chuck said kawhi is THE best in the world :lol

saying leonard is top 5 isn't that outlandish, saying he is the best is pretty out there though

[aj1987]

Curry
LeBron/KD
KD/LeBron
Kawhi/WB
WB/Kawhi

[Spurs5Rings2014]

So did Shaq and Chuck. Why did Kenny saying it warrant a thread?

:confusedshrug:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

and chuck said kawhi is THE best in the world :lol

saying leonard is top 5 isn't that outlandish, saying he is the best is pretty out there though

Chuck's rationale is that Leonard is elite on both ends. What's the issue?

:confusedshrug:

[ace23]

and chuck said kawhi is THE best in the world :lol
Lol fr? Must have missed that trying to process Kenny's statement.

He's the #3 SF imo. 10-15th in the league overall

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Curry
LeBron/KD
KD/LeBron
Kawhi/WB
WB/Kawhi


Westbrook and Kawhi are too low. LeBron and Durant are too high. Top 3 is Leonard, Curry and Westbrook with Durant and Bran rounding out the top 5. George, CP3, etc also have a case.

[Lebronxrings]

lebron
green
durant
curry
duncan

Duncan>kawhi is defense is much more important to the team.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Lol fr? Must have missed that trying to process Kenny's statement.

He's the #3 SF imo. 10-15th in the league overall

:biggums:

Name 9-14 players better than him.

[aj1987]

Westbrook and Kawhi are too low. LeBron and Durant are too high. Top 3 is Leonard, Curry and Westbrook with Durant and Bran rounding out the top 5. George, CP3, etc also have a case.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

GTFOH.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

lebron
green
durant
curry
duncan

Duncan>kawhi is defense is much more important to the team.

Fair enough. Duncan is very impactful.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

GTFOH.

:wtf:

Dude, it's the top 5. You're acting like it isn't highly subjective. These are the top 5 best players in the world, you can make a case for at least 4 of them being 2-5 at the very least.

[BuffaloBill]

Fair enough. Duncan is very impactful.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcqUQmeUcAAyVei.jpg

[aj1987]

:wtf:

Dude, it's the top 5. You're acting like it isn't highly subjective. These are the top 5 best players in the world, you can make a case for at least 4 of them being 2-5 at the very least.
Yeah, and Kawhi and WB are not better than LeBron and KD.

[Mike smith]

Fair to say he is the best 2 way player in the Nba

[BuffaloBill]

Fair to say he is the best 2 way player in the Nba


By far

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Yeah, and Kawhi and WB are not better than LeBron and KD.

In your opinion. One can argue that Kawhi's DPOY level defense gives him the edge over Bran and Durant. Westbrook's PER is only second to Curry, so there's that.

:confusedshrug:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcqUQmeUcAAyVei.jpg

What about when Duncan was gone?

:confusedshrug:

[InsanityKills]

Kawhi=system player

Any other team he's a scrub.

[ace23]

lebron
green
durant
curry
duncan

Duncan>kawhi is defense is much more important to the team.
Green who? Lord help this child you're not talking about draymond are you?

top 10:
curry
lbj
kd
westbrook
harden
ad
cousins
lillard

Guess you can start to talk about Kawhi here honestly. Not as outlandish as I initially thought now that I think about it

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Kawhi=system player

Any other team he's a scrub.

:facepalm

[Mike smith]

In your opinion. One can argue that Kawhi's DPOY level defense gives him the edge over Bran and Durant. Westbrook's PER is only second to Curry, so there's that.

:confusedshrug:
Curry, Durant,Leonard, Lebron, Westbrook in that order

[InsanityKills]

:facepalm
:facepalm

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Green who? Lord help this child you're not talking about draymond are you?

top 10:
curry
lbj
kd
westbrook
harden
ad
cousins
lillard

Guess you can start to talk about Kawhi here honestly. Not as outlandish as I initially thought now that I think about.

:wtf:

[aj1987]

In your opinion. One can argue that Kawhi's DPOY level defense gives him the edge over Bran and Durant. Westbrook's PER is only second to Curry, so there's that.

:confusedshrug:
Same could be said for LeBron's and KD's offense. Give them 3 a team a role-players and LeBron/KD are gonna carry that team further than Kawhi.

[Black and White]

In your opinion. One can argue that Kawhi's DPOY level defense gives him the edge over Bran and Durant. Westbrook's PER is only second to Curry, so there's that.

:confusedshrug:

Westbrook is not a better player than Durant, have you been following the Thunder at all?

Kawhi is top 5, but he's not on Durant and Bron's level in terms of impact.

[Bankaii]

In your opinion. One can argue that Kawhi's DPOY level defense gives him the edge over Bran and Durant. Westbrook's PER is only second to Curry, so there's that.

:confusedshrug:
Lol no, you can't argue that at all.

Westbrook is a proven idiot. Durant without Westbrook led a team to the playoffs while being one of the most dominant scorers ever. Westbrook without Durant missed the playoffs.

And Kawhi is a very good player in a GOAT system. Not to mention his playoff chokes that are overlooked. His impact is no where near Lebron's

[Mike smith]

Kawhi=system player

Any other team he's a scrub.
You don't know anything about basketball do you?

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Curry, Durant,Leonard, Lebron, Westbrook in that order

Looks like you have Leonard over LeBron. Be careful now, lest aj1987 has an issue with that and requests that you exit the premises post haste.

:no:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Same could be said for LeBron's and KD's offense. Give them 3 a team a role-players and LeBron/KD are gonna carry that team further than Kawhi.

They do have teams of roleplayers, though. Very good ones, in fact, at bare minimum at least for LeBron. Durant just has another top 5 player, nothing special.

:coleman:

[BuffaloBill]

Green who? Lord help this child you're not talking about draymond are you?

top 10:
curry
lbj
kd
westbrook
harden
ad
cousins
lillard

Guess you can start to talk about Kawhi here honestly. Not as outlandish as I initially thought now that I think about it


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/909/724/562.jpg

[aj1987]

They do have teams of roleplayers, though. Very good ones, in fact, at bare minimum at least for LeBron. Durant just has another top 5 player, nothing special.

:coleman:
:wtf:

Do you understand what I'm saying? Kawhi cannot carry a team the way LeBron/KD can. It's a fact and has been proven time and time again.

[r0drig0lac]

he is

[ace23]

Harden was Player's MVP. Top 5 easy.

[Mike smith]

Looks like you have Leonard over LeBron. Be careful now, lest aj1987 has an issue with that and requests that you exit the premises post haste.

:no:
That's my opinion I don't care who won't like it. Lebron is still great player tho, writing this I'm considering switching him and Leonard but Leonard has really improved his 3 pt shift is second in nba I believe plus you add best perimeter defense he barely beats out Lebron

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Westbrook is not a better player than Durant, have you been following the Thunder at all?

Kawhi is top 5, but he's not on Durant and Bron's level in terms of impact.

Durant bricks just as many shots as Westbrook does at the end of close games and Westbrook has been much more efficient and willing to pass this season. He does just as much if not more for his team than Durant does, being one of the best rebounding guards in the league as well as being one of the top assist mans, too. It's closer than people would have you believe and a case can be made for him being more valuable to his team in the context of winning games.

I don't see how Kawhi isn't on their level impact wise either considering the stat BuffaloBill posted up. If that is true, he impacts his team defensively as much or more than either LeBron or Durant do offensively as well as being really good offensively as well.

:confusedshrug:

[Black and White]

:wtf:

Do you understand what I'm saying? Kawhi cannot carry a team the way LeBron/KD can. It's a fact and has been proven time and time again.

Kawhi in the same situations as Bron and Durant would be worse, and you can make direct comparisons because they play the same position. Kawhi is successful because of the SYSTEM he plays in, Durant and Bron aren't playing in systems like that.

Defensively he would slot in fine though, but the difference is on offense

[Black and White]

Harden was Player's MVP. Top 5 easy.

How's his chances to repeat this season?

[aj1987]

Kawhi in the same situations as Bron and Durant would be worse, and you can make direct comparisons because they play the same position. Kawhi is successful because of the SYSTEM he plays in, Durant and Bron aren't playing in systems like that.

Defensively he would slot in fine though, but the difference is on offense
Exactly! Thank you.

[Black and White]

Durant bricks just as many shots as Westbrook does at the end of close games and Westbrook has been much more efficient and willing to pass this season. He does just as much if not more for his team than Durant does, being one of the best rebounding guards in the league as well as being one of the top assist mans, too. It's closer than people would have you believe and a case can be made for him being more valuable to his team in the context of winning games.

I don't see how Kawhi isn't on their level impact wise either considering the stat BuffaloBill posted up. If that is true, he impacts his team defensively as much or more than either LeBron or Durant do offensively as well as being really good offensively as well.

:confusedshrug:

We saw what happened when you took Durant off the squad, point is, Westbrook has a much lower basketball IQ than Durant, and we have seen Durant literally carry this team into the post-season, Westbrook hasn't shown that kind of impact to date, he's top 5, don't get me wrong.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Lol no, you can't argue that at all.

Westbrook is a proven idiot. Durant without Westbrook led a team to the playoffs while being one of the most dominant scorers ever. Westbrook without Durant missed the playoffs.

And Kawhi is a very good player in a GOAT system. Not to mention his playoff chokes that are overlooked. His impact is no where near Lebron's

Zero context. That team Durant lead to the play offs without Westbrook wasn't nearly as depleted due to injuries as the team Westbrook lead. Hell, Westbrook himself as well as Ibaka missed considerable games that season. You would have to at least subtract the games he himself missed and they easily make the play offs.

Kawhi would be a very good player in ANY system. LeBron, Mr. 2/6, has never choked in the play offs? Like I said, Kawhi's defensive impact is at least on par or greater than LeBron's offensive impact and his offensive impact is one of the best as well this season.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

:wtf:

Do you understand what I'm saying? Kawhi cannot carry a team the way LeBron/KD can. It's a fact and has been proven time and time again.

When has this been proven? Kawhi has never been put in this situation, we win 50+ a year. At least wait for Duncan and co to retire or something before making claims that aren't accurate.

[aj1987]

When has this been proven? Kawhi has never been put in this situation, we win 50+ a year. At least wait for Duncan and co to retire or something before making claims that aren't accurate.
Dude, LeBron and KD carried scrubs and have PROVEN that they can actually carry a team. As good as Kawhi is on the defensive end, he's not even close to being on KD's and LeBron's level offensively. Last years Spurs team wins 65 with LeBron/KD.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Kawhi in the same situations as Bron and Durant would be worse, and you can make direct comparisons because they play the same position. Kawhi is successful because of the SYSTEM he plays in, Durant and Bron aren't playing in systems like that.

Defensively he would slot in fine though, but the difference is on offense

We don't actually know that as he hasn't been put in such situations. We really have no idea how good Kawhi would be without playing under Pop. Who knows? He could be even better. Do you even watch Spurs games? He iso's quite a bit and has the green light. I think the disconnect is that you guys aren't actually seeing him play so you think he's just standing in the corner when he's the #1 option right now and is getting to have the ball in his hands a lot, going 1 on 1 pretty often.

[Mike smith]

Dude, LeBron and KD carried scrubs and have PROVEN that they can actually carry a team. As good as Kawhi is on the defensive end, he's not even close to being on KD's and LeBron's level offensively. Last years Spurs team wins 65 with LeBron/KD.
Kawhi is a better shooter then bron and better in the post then Durant so he does have his advantages on the offensive end

[Spurs5Rings2014]

We saw what happened when you took Durant off the squad, point is, Westbrook has a much lower basketball IQ than Durant, and we have seen Durant literally carry this team into the post-season, Westbrook hasn't shown that kind of impact to date, he's top 5, don't get me wrong.

We saw what happened when Durant and Westbrook and Ibaka and half their roster was off the squad. Westbrook almost made the play offs. Durant carried a much less injury riddled team into the play offs, no question about it. Doesn't prove anything, though, considering how different the situations were. His impact by all advanced metrics is at bare minimum equal to if not greater than Durant's. He's literally having an ATG season, but Curry is having the GOAT offensive season so he isn't getting as much shine.

[Black and White]

We don't actually know that as he hasn't been put in such situations. We really have no idea how good Kawhi would be without playing under Pop. Who knows? He could be even better. Do you even watch Spurs games? He iso's quite a bit and has the green light. I think the disconnect is that you guys aren't actually seeing him play so you think he's just standing in the corner when he's the #1 option right now and is getting to have the ball in his hands a lot, going 1 on 1 pretty often.

No, don't get me wrong, I've seen the improvements in his game, without question it's his team now, however you can't take away the fact that the system he plays in is one of the best in the league. I'm not trying to knock him, I'm actually a fan, I'm just saying he's not Bron or Durant level on offense, and until he shows us that he is, you can't make that comparison.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Dude, LeBron and KD carried scrubs and have PROVEN that they can actually carry a team. As good as Kawhi is on the defensive end, he's not even close to being on KD's and LeBron's level offensively. Last years Spurs team wins 65 with LeBron/KD.

We don't know that he can't carry a bad team as he's never had a bad team. Since when is it guilty until proven innocent? He's not even in his prime yet, he's still getting better. Give him some time. Already the second most efficient 3P shooter in the league.

[aj1987]

Kawhi is a better shooter then bron and better in the post then Durant so he does have his advantages on the offensive end
Yeah, doesn't work that way. You do know that LeBron is averaging 25/7/7 and KD is averaging 27/8/5, and that this is considered to be a down year for both of them. That's how good those dudes are. What them go to another level in the PO's.


We don't know that he can't carry a bad team as he's never had a bad team. Since when is it guilty until proven innocent? He's not even in his prime yet, he's still getting better. Give him some time. Already the second most efficient 3P shooter in the league.
Who gives a shit about Kawhi's prime? We're talking about them as players TODAY. He's not better than KD or LeBron TODAY.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Kawhi is a better shooter then bron and better in the post then Durant so he does have his advantages on the offensive end

And he's still developing so he has plenty of time to get better. Still young, too, and not at the age yet where most ATG players put everything together. When he's 27-30 and still looks like Pippen (which is still very very good), you can sh!t on him. I suspect he will be closer to Jordan than Pippen when it's said and done, though.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

No, don't get me wrong, I've seen the improvements in his game, without question it's his team now, however you can't take away the fact that the system he plays in is one of the best in the league. I'm not trying to knock him, I'm actually a fan, I'm just saying he's not Bron or Durant level on offense, and until he shows us that he is, you can't make that comparison.

He's better than LeBron and Durant in some aspects offensively already like shooting/3P shooting for LeBron and posting up for Durant. He's still young and will only get better. He's being developed in a way that will pay off big in the play offs. His defense is also otherworldly and closes the gap, IMO, between him and Durant/LeBron that they have on him offensively.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Who gives a shit about Kawhi's prime? We're talking about them as players TODAY. He's not better than KD or LeBron TODAY.

I posit that he is comparable to them because he bring more on the defensive side of the ball while not missing too much on the offensive side, being very efficient on that end.

[tmacattack33]

Kawhi doesn't/can't create his own offense as much as a true star on offense. There are stats to back this up for folks who want to Charles Barkley it up and talk about the NBA when they don't even watch the games (like Charles admits to).

Offensively, he might not even be top 20 yet.

Overall, he's probably 7th best in the league. Behind the usual:

Curry
Durant/James (very close to each other, so i'll say they are tied to not derail the point)
Westbrook
Anthony Davis
C. Paul
Kawhi

[Black and White]

He's better than LeBron and Durant in some aspects offensively already like shooting/3P shooting for LeBron and posting up for Durant. He's still young and will only get better. He's being developed in a way that will pay off big in the play offs. His defense is also otherworldly and closes the gap, IMO, between him and Durant/LeBron that they have on him offensively.

It doesn't work that way, you can't just look at certain aspects of his game to compare them offensively, it's about Durant and LeBrons offensive ability as a whole vs Kawhi's as a whole.

[JZ600]

People really think leonard has more impact that bron?

:lol :lol lord have mercy

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Kawhi doesn't/can't create his own offense as much as a true star on offense. There are stats to back this up for folks who want to Charles Barkley it up and talk about the NBA when they don't even watch the games (like Charles admits to).

Offensively, he might not even be top 20 yet.

Overall, he's probably 7th best in the league. Behind the usual:

Curry
Durant/James (very close to each other, so i'll say they are tied to not derail the point)
Westbrook
Anthony Davis
C. Paul
Kawhi

It's not that he can't do it. He does it, very efficiently. It's that he has a good team where everybody touches the ball. Doesn't make sense for him to play like Westbrook or something. People complain about Westbrook playing the way he does, but when a player like Leonard plays the right way they sh!t on him and say he sucks. People really don't think Leonard can chuck and be able to score a lot more at the expense of efficiency? He has the athleticism, shooting ability, post play, etc to get it done. It just wouldn't be conducive of winning basketball.

[tmacattack33]

Defense as any non-paint defending big can only be worth so much.

For a big, I'd rate the player 60% by offense and 40% by defense (ignoring rebounding for this discussion).

For anyone else, it's closer to 70/30.

The offense gets to choose what it wants to do. If you have Curry on offense, he can win a game alone offensively. No wing will win a game alone defensively .

[aj1987]

I posit that he is comparable to them because he bring more on the defensive side of the ball while not missing too much on the offensive side, being very efficient on that end.
Dude, he scores like 5 fewer points and averages 5 fewer assists than LeBron. You really can't cherrypick these criteria and say that Kawhi has the same impact as them.

Again, Kawhi is an incredible player, but he doesn't impact the game as much as LeBron and KD.

[Lebronxrings]

Kawhi leonard is quickly becoming the most nba player of all time. Never seen anyone close.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Dudes actually watching this game? Leonard, turn-around fade-away right there.

:eek:

27/9 for the game so far. Dudes gonna make me bump this thread.

[Nick Young]

Kenny is right


Kawhi also clutch as hell on both ends of the floor

Dude is the Tim Duncan of small forwards. People won't realize how truly great Kawhi is until 5+ more years of this, but they will realize eventually.

[navy]

If Kawhi isnt top 5, he's top 6. lol
No order

Curry
Lebron
Durant
Westbrook
Kawhi

What's the problem?

[Doranku]

Dudes actually watching this game? Leonard, turn-around fade-away right there.

:eek:

27/9 for the game so far. Dudes gonna make me bump this thread.
Kawhi's post-game is a thing of beauty.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Leonard penetration kick-out to Patty for the trey. Clutch af.

:bowdown:

[Doranku]

My goodness, Kawhi has just DOMINATED the game in the last 3 minutes.

Beautiful fadeaway, subtle up-fake to blow by his defender followed by a great kickout to a wide open Mills for 3, great ball awareness to secure the offensive rebound and then a dagger 3 to boot.

Kawhi :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[InsanityKills]

Not impressed. :no:

Coach Pop deserves all the credit!:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Nick Young]

Kawhi's decision making on both ends of the floor is his greatest quality. The dude plays so smart and never gets rattled.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Kawhi with the offensive rebound on the defensive end and then the trey on the other end to ice the game. Best 2-way player in the league.

:applause:

Finished with 30/10/3/2/2 on 12/22 FG, 6/10 3P with ZERO FT's :eek: and +15 +/-.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[JimmyMcAdocious]

**** off if you're actually ranking Harden over Kawhi.

[TemporaMutantur]

**** off if you're actually ranking Harden over Kawhi.

Who the **** said that?

That's a joke. Just give them a troll stamp and move on.

[Prime_Shaq]

1. Curry
2. LeBron
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Westbrook

[plowking]

**** off if you're actually ranking Harden over Kawhi.

Why exactly is that a joke?

Last season Harden led his team to the WCF, and was 2nd in MVP voting, while being the players MVP, and put up 27/6/7... So he averaged better stats last season, while going further with a worse team than Leonard.

This season the team has slumped, but Harden is putting up 29/7/6...

As much as everyone hates Harden on this board, myself included, some of you are delusional and blinded by your bias.

[BuffaloBill]

Kawhi with the offensive rebound on the defensive end and then the trey on the other end to ice the game. Best 2-way player in the league.

:applause:

Finished with 30/10/3/2/2 on 12/22 FG, 6/10 3P with ZERO FT's :eek: and +15 +/-.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

11 rebounds

[Spurs5Rings2014]

11 rebounds

Yeah, I sold him short. Noticed that, but didn't wanna edit my post.

:cheers:

[BuffaloBill]

Kawhi doesn't/can't create his own offense as much as a true star on offense.

You haven't watched him this season. Watch him play then come back and try again.

[Spurs m8]

lebron
green
durant
curry
duncan

Duncan>kawhi is defense is much more important to the team.

LOL you fcking stupid motherfcker

[Spurs5Rings2014]

You haven't watched him this season. Watch him play then come back and try again.

Don't do 'em like that, Bill.

:oldlol:

[Riks]

There is a strong case for him as top 5.

[Svendiggity]

I like his game on offense. He's one of the few players that I really feel would play well alongside any other superstar. There's something about his demeanor where you just want him to succeed. And he's not a ball-stopper. He can play off the ball, slash, spot up for three. When he gets the ball he's very decisive and can always post and fade-away when his man stays in front of him.

[Kawhi]

Green who? Lord help this child you're not talking about draymond are you?

top 10:
curry
lbj
kd
westbrook
harden
ad
cousins
lillard

Guess you can start to talk about Kawhi here honestly. Not as outlandish as I initially thought now that I think about itThis list is a joke.

[stalkerforlife]

lol

What's so funny?

[red1]

Kawhi is legit. Top 10 for sure.

[riseagainst]

Westbrook and Kawhi are too low. LeBron and Durant are too high. Top 3 is Leonard, Curry and Westbrook with Durant and Bran rounding out the top 5. George, CP3, etc also have a case.


:biggums:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

:biggums:

A strong case could be made that Kawhi's defense puts him ahead of the rest, but that list wasn't in order anyways.

:confusedshrug:

[ace23]

Why exactly is that a joke?

Last season Harden led his team to the WCF, and was 2nd in MVP voting, while being the players MVP, and put up 27/6/7... So he averaged better stats last season, while going further with a worse team than Leonard.

This season the team has slumped, but Harden is putting up 29/7/6...

As much as everyone hates Harden on this board, myself included, some of you are delusional and blinded by your bias.
Thank you.

Kawhi's numbers would suffer immensely if he were a true go-to. His usage rate is way below everyone else mentioned in this thread. He's good, but a system player.

[ace23]

Top 3 is Leonard, Curry and Westbrook with Durant and Bran rounding out the top 5. George, CP3, etc also have a case.
:confusedshrug:
:roll:

[feyki]

Arguably second best , with Durant and Lebron .

[Spurs m8]

Imagine not knowing he's top 5 coz you don't know basketball very well...
or you're a biased loser.

Either way....you'd have to be a punish that doesn't know nba too well tbh

[Spurs m8]

Thank you.

Kawhi's numbers would suffer immensely if he were a true go-to. His usage rate is way below everyone else mentioned in this thread. He's good, but a system player.

You are actually a stupid cnt.

[BuffaloBill]

Thank you.

Kawhi's numbers would suffer immensely if he were a true go-to. His usage rate is way below everyone else mentioned in this thread. He's good, but a system player.


:facepalm

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Thank you.

Kawhi's numbers would suffer immensely if he were a true go-to. His usage rate is way below everyone else mentioned in this thread. He's good, but a system player.

You should probably watch a few Spurs games this season before saying stupid shit.

:oldlol:

[ace23]

You should probably watch a few Spurs games this season before saying stupid shit.

:oldlol:

I've watched a few.

And lol I posted straight facts. Which of the facts I stated offended you?

So many blind homers in here jesus

[PsychoBe]

i'd say he's top 3.

curry, kawhi, durant.

[Spurs m8]

I've watched a few.

And lol I posted straight facts. Which of the facts I stated offended you?

So many blind homers in here jesus

Just saw you're from Houston....makes sense.

Your so called stars whole game is free throw drawing, no d and no heart


Suck shit

[plowking]

Just saw you're from Houston....makes sense.

Your so called stars whole game is free throw drawing, no d and no heart


Suck shit

So his best player last year got further with no D, no heart, free throw drawing, and a worse team than what Kawhi has, and yet he isn't possibly a better player?

Cool.

[BuffaloBill]

I feel like OP is just mad because his boy Harden gets Destroyed by Kawhi one on one every time they play now.

Talking about blind homers, have you even watched that matchup this season? I know you haven't because if you did there's no way in hell you can seriously rank harden above Kawhi.

[BuffaloBill]

So his best player last year got further with no D, no heart, free throw drawing, and a worse team than what Kawhi has, and yet he isn't possibly a better player?

Cool.

Harden had a better season than Kawhi last year but now that Kawhi has the keys to the Spurs offense, it's a lot different.

And what does last year have to do with this year?

[ZMonkey11]

For those of you that keep harking Kawhi is a system player, I am assuming you aren't watching half the plays where Kawhi is the 2nd or 3rd person to touch the ball.

In those situations, he is usually iso'd with the players spread out. (Like almost ALL teams in the NBA now)

The difference is Kawhi can drive and if he does not beat you with his drive, he switches up and starts backing you in. That is not a system. That is a player that is adept at beating his coverage 1-on-1.

The dude is shooting over 50% from the field, a large amount of those being fade away 2s. You don't create a system for that. You let the kid play and tell other players to be ready to get the ball if/when he dishes out. The kid just makes good plays and knows when to pass out if he is overmatched/in a bad situation. Hence, his low turnover rate.

His usage rate is over 25.0. For someone that is NOT a primary ball handler, that is ridiculous.


If you say Kawhi is a system player, then I'd say Curry is equally a system player. Dribble up the court, use screen to get open, if screen does not work, drive or have your big re-pick, then get open again. That is GSW's system for Curry.

Kawhi is probably the most unstoppable player inside the 3 point line right now because of his strength, size, ability to drive, speed, shot, and ability to finish at the rim.

And on his system defense, yea, here is that system. Kawhi...go take the best player on the court and defend him.

[Kingwillball]

Lebron is best all around that hasn't changed without him cavs suck. Kwai is in top 5 with curry just cause his offense he gets in and Durant and AD.

[Chadwin]

Kawhi is better than Harden at Harden's own game.

Kawhi: .99 PPP in isos
Harden: .95 PPP in isos

[ArbitraryWater]

Green who? Lord help this child you're not talking about draymond are you?

top 10:
curry
lbj
kd
westbrook
harden
ad
cousins
lillard

Guess you can start to talk about Kawhi here honestly. Not as outlandish as I initially thought now that I think about it

:biggums: :biggums:

what is this..

Kawhi is easily top 5 :wtf:

Westbrook? Maybe.. Harden? My head is hurting. Davis and Cousins? Underdog chance. Lillard? No.

[lilteapot]

Curry
Bron
Durant
Kawhi



Anthony Davis

[qrich]

Man, the hate/underrating of Paul is nauseating. Dude is balling it with JJ Redick, DeAndre Jordan and the corpse of Pierce, along with journeymen.

[kshutts1]

Fair to say he is the best 2 way player in the Nba
What is the difference between "best player" and "best two way player"? Do people really not normally consider... both ways.... when discussing how good players are?

[BuffaloBill]

What is the difference between "best player" and "best two way player"? Do people really not normally consider... both ways.... when discussing how good players are?

Put simply, Steph Curry isn't making the all defensive team any time soon.

[BuffaloBill]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Rq9tmIpRiDeKs/giphy.gif

[kshutts1]

Put simply, Steph Curry isn't making the all defensive team any time soon.
And I now go to the second part of my question...

Don't people use offense and defense to rank players anyway?

What you said is why I don't consider Curry the best player in the league. He's having the best season, sure, but he's not the best player.

[BuffaloBill]

And I now go to the second part of my question...

Don't people use offense and defense to rank players anyway?

What you said is why I don't consider Curry the best player in the league. He's having the best season, sure, but he's not the best player.



At the end of the day, if you score more points than your opponent you win the game. A guy who scores 31ppg shooting +50% will still be more effective than almost anyone else who doesn't, without the need to play great defense. It'd only become problematic when he starts allowing his opponents to score 30ppg on 50%, which is avoidable with the right defensive schemes. Curry isn't forced to guard the opposing teams best scorer and he rarely does. That's why being the best two way player doesn't automatically make you the best player.

I'm not a stat guy but one of my favorite stats is RPM (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM) . It's not the end of all discussion but it's a good measure of overall impact factoring in offense and defense.

So Steph Curry is ranked 1st in offensive RPM and 70th in defensive RPM. Offensive and defensive RPM are weighed equally in determining overall RPM. Curry's offensive RPM is so high that his overall RPM is still #1 even while being ranked 70th in defensive RPM.

"Best two player" is term used to describe balance on both sides of the ball more so than overall impact.

Kawhi Leonard is 2nd in the league to Curry in RPM. Kawhi being 10th in offensive RPM and 6th in defensive RPM puts him at #2 in overall RPM, and him being the only player in the league who is top 10 in both offensive RPM and defensive RPM would technically make him the "best two player in the league" while still being 2nd to Curry in overall impact(according to this stat).

The opposite of Steph Curry would be a player like Deandre Jordan or Draymond Green, who both have very RPM ratings but due to defense instead of offense. But their great defense isn't as impactful as Steph Curry's offense so they still fall behind Steph in overall RPM. Again, this isn't an end all be all stat but it is a stat that shows how impactful Steph Curry is without being a great two way player and having an average/below average defensive impact rating.

[kshutts1]

At the end of the day, if you score more points than your opponent you win the game. A guy who scores 31ppg shooting +50% will still be more effective than almost anyone else who doesn't, without the need to play great defense. It'd only become problematic when he starts allowing his opponents to score 30ppg on 50%, which is avoidable with the right defensive schemes. Curry isn't forced to guard the opposing teams best scorer and he rarely does. That's why being the best two way player doesn't automatically make you the best player.
That's fair. I appreciate you backing up your opinion with facts. Can't refute the facts. I can disagree with them on basis, but you've already done that.

Only nit I'd pick with your argument is the bolded part. There are varying degrees of effectiveness. If Curry scores 31 on +50%, and gives up 22 on 50%, that's less effective than someone scoring 23 on +50% and giving up 13 on 50%. (I'm assuming you used made up numbers for all but Curry's 31/+50, so I'm just providing a hypothetical argument)

[BuffaloBill]

That's fair. I appreciate you backing up your opinion with facts. Can't refute the facts. I can disagree with them on basis, but you've already done that.

Only nit I'd pick with your argument is the bolded part. There are varying degrees of effectiveness. If Curry scores 31 on +50%, and gives up 22 on 50%, that's less effective than someone scoring 23 on +50% and giving up 13 on 50%. (I'm assuming you used made up numbers for all but Curry's 31/+50, so I'm just providing a hypothetical argument)

That's a great point as well. But the thing with Curry goes beyond those stats. If Curry were to meet this great two way player who who scores 23 on 50% and gives up 13 on 50%, what are the chances that he holds Curry to 13? Wouldn't you agree that there is a much better chance that Curry outscores that guy without being a better two way player? There's no stat for that but there is plenty of evidence of Curry ignoring defenders and putting up 40 points more naturally than anyone we've seen. There are varying degrees of effectiveness but there's only one degree of winning, and that's scoring more points. Curry doesn't that better than anyone, and on as few shots as possible

[Fudge]

LOL

Durant
LeBron
Curry
Westbrook
CP3
---------
Kawhi

Those first five are a lock. Then it gets complicated with Davis, Harden, Wall, Griffin, etc. He's in the 6-9 range. I have him right at 6.

[Overdrive]

At the end of the day, if you score more points than your opponent you win the game. A guy who scores 31ppg shooting +50% will still be more effective than almost anyone else who doesn't, without the need to play great defense. It'd only become problematic when he starts allowing his opponents to score 30ppg on 50%, which is avoidable with the right defensive schemes. Curry isn't forced to guard the opposing teams best scorer and he rarely does. That's why being the best two way player doesn't automatically make you the best player.

I'm not a stat guy but one of my favorite stats is RPM (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM) . It's not the end of all discussion but it's a good measure of overall impact factoring in offense and defense.

So Steph Curry is ranked 1st in offensive RPM and 70th in defensive RPM. Offensive and defensive RPM are weighed equally in determining overall RPM. Curry's offensive RPM is so high that his overall RPM is still #1 even while being ranked 70th in defensive RPM.

"Best two player" is term used to describe balance on both sides of the ball more so than overall impact.

Kawhi Leonard is 2nd in the league to Curry in RPM. Kawhi being 10th in offensive RPM and 6th in defensive RPM puts him at #2 in overall RPM, and him being the only player in the league who is top 10 in both offensive RPM and defensive RPM would technically make him the "best two player in the league" while still being 2nd to Curry in overall impact(according to this stat).

The opposite of Steph Curry would be a player like Deandre Jordan or Draymond Green, who both have very RPM ratings but due to defense instead of offense. But their great defense isn't as impactful as Steph Curry's offense so they still fall behind Steph in overall RPM. Again, this isn't an end all be all stat but it is a stat that shows how impactful Steph Curry is without being a great two way player and having an average/below average defensive impact rating.

When I read the initial quote I thought about something like that minus the RPM part. Quite one of the best most unbiased posts in quite a while.

This pretty much also shows how valuable offense is compared is to defense and I think between there's a bigger gap in impact between 25-30ppg than 20-25ppg.

Defense is trickier, because you can hold your opponent down to an season low in points, but he might impact the game differently, because to much attention is asigned to that personally. The Spurs and Kawhi fare so good, because their way of playing allows them to have Kawhi hold down his opponent to a lower output without worrying too much about team defense. That's also why Timmy still gets credit for 8 point 7 rebound games, because he's the captain behind that group effort.

The opposite are last year finals Cavs. They extorted all their energy on stopping Steph, but when the Warriors figured out the started steamrolling the rest of the Cavs and then it freed up space for Steph again.

Both team's problem is that the Warriors also apply smart team defense and side from Steph their team has good defenders.

[90sgoat]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Rq9tmIpRiDeKs/giphy.gif

Kawhi paying homage to The Last Shot:bowdown:

[Ranked 12th]

lol shit thread, but I'll entertain anyway


Let's use LeBron as an example



Is Kahwi a better offensive player? No.

Is Kahwi a better defensive player? No.


That ends it right there.

[WolfGang]

Lebron (still the best)
Curry
Goatbrook
Durant
Lillard?

My top 5 right now. Leonard might actually be top 5 in most people's eyes. I don't disagree with it.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

lol shit thread, but I'll entertain anyway


Let's use LeBron as an example



Is Kahwi a better offensive player? No.

Is Kahwi a better defensive player? No.


That ends it right there.

:facepalm