Frazier says he

[jongib369]

[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/03/03/walt-frazier-is-the-latest-nba-legend-to-say-hed-defend-steph-curry-better/"]When Oscar Robertson opined recently that a big part of Steph Curry

[hold this L]

We should have a thread for retired players shitting on Curry, it seems at least one pops up every single week. :lol Was listening to podcast at work yesterday, and one of the GS reporters talked about all these retired famous players taking a weekly dump on Curry, and he said he grinds his teeth when he hears.. so it does at least annoy him. He is responding well to them so far though. :pimp:

[HoopologyPhD]

Great pic, Clyde has to be one of the smoothest most stylish NBA players in history, not just the way he dressed but his demeanor.

Also I love him as a commentator, probably one of my favorites along with Bill Walton.

[juju151111]

[QUOTE=jongib369][URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/03/03/walt-frazier-is-the-latest-nba-legend-to-say-hed-defend-steph-curry-better/"]When Oscar Robertson opined recently that a big part of Steph Curry

[riseagainst]

lol..... Curry would literally run circles around these dudes from the 50s,60s, and 70s. He would completely shat on them and drop 80 a game.

:oldlol:

[Velocirap31]

These old players are delusional. NBA players have been improving over the decades in all facets of the game.

[guy]

I don't have as much of a problem with the way he put it cause he mentioned how there was no 3 pointer. If there was no 3 pointer, long distance shots would be the least efficient shots. That's a fact. So he's not wrong about that. And curry would still be great just not as great. But these guys that say Curry is only good because defense today sucks and he would've been hurt if he played in previous eras is another story. They sound just like stupid haters.

[TomBrady]

Does he not understand that someone having 25 2s against him is worse than giving up 13 3s?

[Showtime80']

Everyone on this site knows that I'm partial to the 1980's but even I agree this criticism of Curry is a little silly.

The thing that I think makes a lot of the older players bitter is the fact that the NBA has altered it's rules so much specially after the early 90's that the game right know is basically a soft, outside shooting, buddy buddy exhibition where rules have absolutely HANDCUFFED defenses specially on the perimeter. Basketball has ALWAYS HAD the worst defense out of ANY MAJOR SPORT, where teams put the ball through the hoop 40+ times a game, but before the early 90's you could actually put your hands on and be physical with players and that gave the defense a little bit of leeway and even then the best scorers still put up between 45 to 50% FG. Curry would still score and get his shots off in ANY DECADE but believe you me it would be A LOT MORE difficult with more physical and violent play, could his body withstand that punishment for 82 games/10 years?

If the Warriors stay together for the next 5 years and no major injuries occur, the NBA IS SCREWED!!! Nobody else is winning the title. The problem for the rest of the league is twofold because there are no more dominant big offensive players on contending teams to punish them on the inside and at the other end you can't be physical with them on the perimeter nor on the inside.

In the NBA of the 80's early 90's the weakness of being a small team could be exploited first because of the vast array of dominant post players that were in the top teams at that time (Lakers, Pistons, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Mavs) and the fact that you could body up on shooters on the perimeter and hammer them to the ground if they drove to the paint.

Unless some of these new bigs like Okafor, Towns or Cousins end up on OKC, Cleveland, Toronto, LA or San Antonio, the Warriors are winning the next 3 to 4 titles!

[DoctorP]

The old guys are having fantasies.

[jstern]

His opinion sounded sensible. He's even praising Curry, talking about how we've never seen a shooter like him. That we can't really compare because Curry's greatness, the thing he does the best is shoot 3 point shots, and they didn't have a 3 point line back then. Then he went on a common sense opinion of what he would try to do. Should he just not answer the question and say, I can't do anything, he's going to score 60 on me? (People here really are betas. The only thing they understand is put your ass up and head down and be submissive.)

He also said another sensible thing, that he doesn't know how Curry is going to keep up this never before seen run in the following seasons, since teams are going to keep trying to find ways to slow him down. That's very sensible.

Like Jordan said to Anfernee. You can't expect to, just because you want to lead the league in scoring every year, because you always have to adjust to the new strategies that teams are coming up to stop you.

[sd3035]

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Michael-Scott-Closes-The-Door-Awkwardly-On-The-Office.gif

[Showtime80']

The only AREAS where the modern game is "better" is athleticism and 3 pointers, THAT'S IT!!! The rest of the aspects of the game have become so inferior is laughable to say the last. That's what you get when every grade school kid wants to be MJ instead of Olajuwon or Kareem, a league full of perimeter oriented softies playing with their face to the basket. It's boring and repetitive!

Time travel 1988 or 1997 Stockton/Malone to present dumbed down and soft game and they dominate even MORE than they did before doing the same simple play!

[jongib369]

These guys realize Curry runs atound a million screens right and has the quickest release ever. Not to mention he has handles. Why are they acting like teams just leave him open or great defenders are not on him now. Also this isn't the onlyyear Walt the Curry has been shooting 3s at a high rate. He beoke the record 3 times beflre this. This isn't some fluke :facepalm

He never said it was a fluke, just that this is his peak and it won't get better than this. Nor will he likely be able to maintain if for years to come...I'm hoping that statement is wrong.

And as an annalist, I'm sure he's quite aware :lol

No one stops a offensive threat like Curry. Like Russell said about Wilt, you can only hope to put up some speed bumps....So in that sense there is some merit to the thought that certain players from the past, or different rules would offer different/possibly better speed bumps than some of what's thrown at him today.

[jongib369]

We should have a thread for retired players shitting on Curry, it seems at least one pops up every single week. :lol Was listening to podcast at work yesterday, and one of the GS reporters talked about all these retired famous players taking a weekly dump on Curry, and he said he grinds his teeth when he hears.. so it does at least annoy him. He is responding well to them so far though. :pimp:

I think there's truth to both sides TBH. What Oscar said was a tad ignorant, but people can't defend like they could in his day so I can understand the oversight.

One thing that's obvious is that older players don't want to be forgotten...Who would, putting your life into something for so long? Everyone wants some type of validation...So when loads of people forget about, discredit, or hell mock what you did it rubs them the wrong way. Even when a worthy new comer comes along some get salty.

Would Curry have a harder time with hand checking? Yes. Would Curry be as great as he is without a 3-ball? No. Would he be one of the best scorers in any era? Yes. Best point guard in the 60s/70s? IMO no. Could Curry be stopped by any particular player/era? Hell no.

[red1]

These old players are delusional. NBA players have been improving over the decades in all facets of the game.
#realtalk

[senelcoolidge]

Frazier is one of the greatest defensive point guards ever. Fast with quick hands. I think he was would bother Curry a lot. Curry probably couldn't defend him..they would put Thompson to defend Frazier, so to hide Curry's defensive deficiencies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HihQ1v0W3M4

[Showtime80']

The NBA right now is in a never ending cycle of churning out raw, fundamentally flawed one and dones into their game that take 3 to 5 years to reach their full potential if ever! Check out the pathetic draft this summer to see what I'm talking about.

In the 80's players came into the league as 2 to 4 years well seasoned students of the game from what was the second best league in the world at that time, NCAA basketball.

What system do you think produced and PROMOTED the higher quality of basketball?!? The 80's system or pathetic one that it in place right where AAU is the system having more influence in the development of players game than high school or college?!?

The skill level, FUNDAMENTALS and IQ are at an all time low!

[jstern]

The NBA right now is in a never ending cycle of churning out raw, fundamentally flawed one and dones into their game that take 3 to 5 years to reach their full potential if ever! Check out the pathetic draft this summer to see what I'm talking about.

In the 80's players came into the league as 2 to 4 years well seasoned students of the game from what was the second best league in the world at that time, NCAA basketball.

What system do you think produced and PROMOTED the higher quality of basketball?!? The 80's system or pathetic one that it in place right where AAU is the system having more influence in the development of players game than high school or college?!?

The skill level, FUNDAMENTALS and IQ are at an all time low!

YES. Back then players came from great, developed, limited, top college systems, and then league started getting players from random high schools, with random HS coaches that just happened to have a gifted player attending the school. That makes a big difference.

[red1]

The NBA right now is in a never ending cycle of churning out raw, fundamentally flawed one and dones into their game that take 3 to 5 years to reach their full potential if ever! Check out the pathetic draft this summer to see what I'm talking about.

In the 80's players came into the league as 2 to 4 years well seasoned students of the game from what was the second best league in the world at that time, NCAA basketball.

What system do you think produced and PROMOTED the higher quality of basketball?!? The 80's system or pathetic one that it in place right where AAU is the system having more influence in the development of players game than high school or college?!?

The skill level, FUNDAMENTALS and IQ are at an all time low!
This is true for the most part but the fact that the overall talent level is MUCH higher more than cancels it out.

[AlphaWolf24]

I think there's truth to both sides TBH. What Oscar said was a tad ignorant, but people can't defend like they could in his day so I can understand the oversight.

One thing that's obvious is that older players don't want to be forgotten...Who would, putting your life into something for so long? Everyone wants some type of validation...So when loads of people forget about, discredit, or hell mock what you did it rubs them the wrong way. Even when a worthy new comer comes along some get salty.

Would Curry have a harder time with hand checking? Yes. Would Curry be as great as he is without a 3-ball? No. Would he be one of the best scorers in any era? Yes. Best point guard in the 60s/70s? IMO no. Could Curry be stopped by any particular player/era? Hell no.


I disagree....

the thing about hand checking is...it brings your defender closer.

If you are quick off of the dribble ( which curry obviously is ) it's much easier to get your hips past your defender.

many times your will hear " Fight pressure with pressure" ...If your defender is playing you close ...change levels and speed to get past them.

so many wings who had quick first steps dominated the 80's " hand checking" ( averaging 20+ PPG over 50%FG)

I started playing basketball with handchecking allowed....it does not work with Curry's skillset...IMO it actually works against it...

[Showtime80']

But what do you define as talent actually?!? Is it physical talent because in that case yes, but in terms of fundamental mastery of the GAME OF BASKETBALL then the game is worse of by miles. That's why teams need to jack up 20 3's a game to break 100 points now a days, the only ways their fundamentally limited guys allows them to score is layups or 3's, that's it.

To me Dwight Howard is the poster child for the current generation of all physical talent/no fundamentals or IQ NBA players. Probably one of the most imposing physical specimens in the HISTORY OF BASKETBALL, 10+ years in the NBA and STILL does not have TWO GO TO POST MOVES TO SAVE HIS LIFE!!! You want to know why?!? Because you don't MASTER those basic elements in the NBA hell not even in the NCAA, you master them from grade school onwards!!! But you're a millionaire at 19 years old what incentive do you have to become a dominant offensive force!!?

The NBA right now is like an athletic exhibition with rules designed for entertainment more than an actual sport. There are NO RIVALRIES, the league has too many teams and the development of the game is being pioneered by AAU!

Darker days are ahead for the league! Wait a few years when teams are jacking up 50 3's a game and tell me the league has "more talent"

[Nuff Said]

Didn't curry only drop like 3 threes last night and still dominated thunder with an efficient 32 points? He's good at this basketball game. His 3 ball helps him but it's not his only strength.

[choppermagic]

My first inclination is to say this guy is giving a very skewed assessment.

However, seeing his BOSS photo of his pimp suit standing in front of his Rolls Royce, I'm now inclined to give him more cred LOL

[AlphaWolf24]

But what do you define as talent actually?!? Is it physical talent because in that case yes, but in terms of fundamental mastery of the GAME OF BASKETBALL then the game is worse of by miles. That's why teams need to jack up 20 3's a game to break 100 points now a days, the only ways their fundamentally limited guys allows them to score is layups or 3's, that's it.

To me Dwight Howard is the poster child for the current generation of all physical talent/no fundamentals or IQ NBA players. Probably one of the most imposing physical specimens in the HISTORY OF BASKETBALL, 10+ years in the NBA and STILL does not have TWO GO TO POST MOVES TO SAVE HIS LIFE!!! You want to know why?!? Because you don't MASTER those basic elements in the NBA hell not even in the NCAA, you master them from grade school onwards!!! But you're a millionaire at 19 years old what incentive do you have to become a dominant offensive force!!?

The NBA right now is like an athletic exhibition with rules designed for entertainment more than an actual sport. There are NO RIVALRIES, the league has too many teams and the development of the game is being pioneered by AAU!

Darker days are ahead for the league! Wait a few years when teams are jacking up 50 3's a game and tell me the league has "more talent"

On the flip side..

The game has changed alot over the past 30 years..faster/much more stretched out game

Kevin Durant is taller then Howard and plays like a guard....no one from the 80's at that size had Durants skillset...

Fundamentals of Shooting/ballhandling and defense is much better today........the only " fundamental" that has widely dissipated is Post play...

but look at the trend...most 6'7" - 7'0" have guard skills now and can score from anywhere.

[red1]

But what do you define as talent actually?!? Is it physical talent because in that case yes, but in terms of fundamental mastery of the GAME OF BASKETBALL then the game is worse of by miles. That's why teams need to jack up 20 3's a game to break 100 points now a days, the only ways their fundamentally limited guys allows them to score is layups or 3's, that's it.

To me Dwight Howard is the poster child for the current generation of all physical talent/no fundamentals or IQ NBA players. Probably one of the most imposing physical specimens in the HISTORY OF BASKETBALL, 10+ years in the NBA and STILL does not have TWO GO TO POST MOVES TO SAVE HIS LIFE!!! You want to know why?!? Because you don't MASTER those basic elements in the NBA hell not even in the NCAA, you master them from grade school onwards!!! But you're a millionaire at 19 years old what incentive do you have to become a dominant offensive force!!?

The NBA right now is like an athletic exhibition with rules designed for entertainment more than an actual sport. There are NO RIVALRIES, the league has too many teams and the development of the game is being pioneered by AAU!

Darker days are ahead for the league! Wait a few years when teams are jacking up 50 3's a game and tell me the league has "more talent"
Dude there is no arguing against it. If you drop a harden or a durant or another top 10 player today into the league of the 80s they would absolutely dominate the sport. The last few years have shown us that shooting 3s is actually a legit strategy. All of the championship teams from this decade were great 3-point shooting teams and that trend will only continue.

[Showtime80']

Quick Alpha here's a little exercise:

Michael Jordan gave the 89' Pistons their only 2 defeats in the entire post season averaging 30ppg on 46% FG, 6 rebs, 7 assts, 2 stls and 1 block against a prime Rodman and Dumars on the perimeter and getting his as! hammered in the paint by Laimbeer, Mahorn, Edwards and Salley with the old school rules!

Put Curry on the 89' Bulls in place of MJ, what numbers and how many wins do you think he gets against the Pistons?

Then do the same exercise with Michael on the 2015 Warriors against the Cavs instead of Curry

[AlphaWolf24]

Didn't curry only drop like 3 threes last night and still dominated thunder with an efficient 32 points? He's good at this basketball game. His 3 ball helps him but it's not his only strength.


True he only made a few 3 's.....but he was attacking the paint and either getting layups or finding open teamates..

he actually blew past Westbrook a few times ( on a hesitation moves) to get easy layups

[Cali Syndicate]

These guys realize Curry runs atound a million screens right and has the quickest release ever. Not to mention he has handles. Why are they acting like teams just leave him open or great defenders are not on him now. Also this isn't the onlyyear Walt the Curry has been shooting 3s at a high rate. He beoke the record 3 times beflre this. This isn't some fluke :facepalm

This is the third time now that curry has broken the 3pt season record....in a row... Twice his own record.... This season is on pace to demolish it.

Frazier would do a good job at containing curry as most elite defenders would. No one is going to stop him though. Curry is amazing off the ball. People like to talk about how today's era benefits him because of the softer rules, well reverse that and imagine curry in the 90s being able to run through screens where the setter can low key hold the defenders. Imagine curry playing on the 90s pacers with the Davis brothers or the knicks with Oakley and mason, he's see more open threes than he does now all as a off the ball player. Complain about bogut and green with their moving screens, lol...lets upgrade those to be even dirtier.

[AlphaWolf24]

Quick Alpha here's a little exercise:

Michael Jordan gave the 89' Pistons their only 2 defeats in the entire post season averaging 30ppg on 46% FG, 6 rebs, 7 assts, 2 stls and 1 block against a prime Rodman and Dumars on the perimeter and getting his as! hammered in the paint by Laimbeer, Mahorn, Edwards and Salley with the old school rules!

Put Curry on the 89' Bulls in place of MJ, what numbers and how many wins do you think he gets against the Pistons?

Then do the same exercise with Michael on the 2015 Warriors against the Cavs instead of Curry


IDK....IMO it has alot to do with the system and players you have.

and for real...lol...we can't always just use MJ as the example...he's more of a anomaly.

Jordan simply had more tools/or weapons to dominate the game.....

I'm sure if you just swapped out Curry and MJ...MJ could still Dominate and maybe Curry slips a little...but still dangerous.


But...

I think if you swapped Curry with ...umm...say Terry Porter on the 80's / 90's Trailblazers!..


whoo weee.......Uncle Cliff....Drexler and Curry......that team right there would be perfect to beat anyone in the 80's and 90's.....carbon copy of the modern day Warriors.

[Showtime80']

Jacking up 3's is a legit strategy when you don't have true dominant big low post players (which the current league doesn't have) or pass first PG's that can get their teammates layups and dunks instead of open 20 footers after 3 defenders have collapsed on them (Westbrick and Derek Rose school of PG play!)

You think the 87' Lakers or 86's Celtics are coming down the floor and jacking up a 3 without exploring their options on the inside with Kareem, McHale, Magic, Parish or Worthy?!?! HELL NO!!! Those guys would score 30 to 40 plus against these Warriors and have Bogut and Green tired and in fould trouble by half time!

That's why those 80's powerhouses would murder the present day Warriors, all-star talent at every spot, strong inside play, fast break game, physical defense, mid range game, pick and roll and yes even 3 pointers when the offense dictated it, NOT FORCED!!!

The modern day Warriors are PERFECTLY assembled for the modern soft, fundamentally deficient, buddy buddy NBA! Not so much for the pre 80's league

[tpols]

The NBA right now is in a never ending cycle of churning out raw, fundamentally flawed one and dones into their game that take 3 to 5 years to reach their full potential if ever! Check out the pathetic draft this summer to see what I'm talking about.

In the 80's players came into the league as 2 to 4 years well seasoned students of the game from what was the second best league in the world at that time, NCAA basketball.

What system do you think produced and PROMOTED the higher quality of basketball?!? The 80's system or pathetic one that it in place right where AAU is the system having more influence in the development of players game than high school or college?!?

The skill level, FUNDAMENTALS and IQ are at an all time low!

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg

[r0drig0lac]

Imagine curry playing on the 90s pacers with the Davis brothers or the knicks with Oakley and mason, he's see more open threes than he does now all as a off the ball player. Complain about bogut and green with their moving screens, lol...lets upgrade those to be even dirtier.

I'm sure that Green (one of the new fake tough guys) and Bogut would not seem so tough against Oakley or Laimbeer, just another example of the current softness

[Nick Young]

Curry would light prime Clyde up for 50 on 60% shooting. Clyde would not know what hit him.

[Cali Syndicate]

I'm sure that Green (one of the new fake tough guys) and Bogut would not seem so tough against Oakley or Laimbeer, just another example of the current softness

What makes you think theyd just roll over? And also I don't think you understood my point.

[Showtime80']

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU ALPHA!!!! For saying basically what I've been saying all along!

Guys like MJ, Bird, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Wilt and a bunch of other greats were systems ONTO THEMSELVES!!! And would succeed in many different schemes with variable rosters and produce a winner.

Where Curry on the other hand DEPENDS MORE ON A SYSTEM!!! Eliminate any other 3 point shooter from the lineup, allow defenses to be physical with you on the inside as well as the outside and let's see how dangerous and how many wins he gets.

For example, put Curry,prime Bird, prime Shaq, prime Magic or prime MJ on the 2016 Sixers with today's rules even then do you still feel Curry produces better numbers and win totals than those guys?!?

[red1]

Jacking up 3's is a legit strategy when you don't have true dominant big low post players (which the current league doesn't have) or pass first PG's that can get their teammates layups and dunks instead of open 20 footers after 3 defenders have collapsed on them (Westbrick and Derek Rose school of PG play!)

You think the 87' Lakers or 86's Celtics are coming down the floor and jacking up a 3 without exploring their options on the inside with Kareem, McHale, Magic, Parish or Worthy?!?! HELL NO!!! Those guys would score 30 to 40 plus against these Warriors and have Bogut and Green tired and in fould trouble by half time!

That's why those 80's powerhouses would murder the present day Warriors, all-star talent at every spot, strong inside play, fast break game, physical defense, mid range game, pick and roll and yes even 3 pointers when the offense dictated it, NOT FORCED!!!

The modern day Warriors are PERFECTLY assembled for the modern soft, fundamentally deficient, buddy buddy NBA! Not so much for the pre 80's league
Lol. Strongly disagree. When you have a team that shoots like the warriors you will get wrecked regardless. I don't care if you have a frontcourt of shaq and kareem playing at the same time. If the other team has shooters hitting 3's at 40% you will be in trouble regardless.

[Showtime80']

Wrecked my as! The Warriors shot 36% from 3 in last year's Finals against one of the WORST FINALS TEAM in the history of the game with only one player in LeBron posing a threat and they still lost 2 games!

Play like that against the 1987 Lakers or 86 Celtics with 3 HOFamers and multiple all stars and they're dead meat!

See those teams and THAT ERA had the PLAYERS AND RULES to exploit the modern day Warriors weaknesses. A small soft team would need to shoot 50% on 50 3 threes a game to even have a chance.

Kareem, McHale, Parish, Thompson, Walton and Worthy are going to have Draymond Green in foul trouble and gasping for air at halftime while Coop and DJ take turns hounding the other two weapons in Klay and Curry man on man and taking their heads off if they tried waltzing down the lane.

The 80's teams were perfectly build for ANY era, the present day are Warriors are perfectly built for THIS ERA!

[AceManIII]

Dang, did older players hate on Bron like this?

I remember Bron being embraced way more by players like Oscar and Pippen.

[stalkerforlife]

It'd be funny to put some of these old ass hacks on the court with Curry and let them get a feel for what would happen to them in any era.

[Marchesk]

Kevin Durant is taller then Howard and plays like a guard....no one from the 80's at that size had Durants skillset...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8f/94/d0/8f94d0144f63ec4a77db0371e0a43714.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2011/news/features/shaun_powell/07/27/george-gervin-feature/0727-george-gervin-300.jpg

And in the 70s, you had a center:

http://estaticos01.marca.com/albumes/2015/05/04/nba_2015_mvp/1430724556_extras_albumes_0_980.jpg

[tpols]

It'd be funny to put some of these old ass hacks on the court with Curry and let them get a feel for what would happen to them in any era.

they'd be in for a rude awakening my friend.

[Marchesk]

It'd be funny to put some of these old ass hacks on the court with Curry and let them get a feel for what would happen to them in any era.

I'm taking Oscar in the 60s over Curry in the 60s, any day. Curry's impact is because he's taking advantage of the three point line more than anyone in history, in an era with offenses built for taking threes and spacing. 60s was a different game.

[Marchesk]

All of this is silly because we haven't invented time travel, which I'm sure we'd use to settle sports debates.

What we should really ask is how would West, Oscar, Frazier, etc do if they were raised in this era, assuming they pursued basketball like they did back then. And vice versa.

Th time travel argument is total (but occasionally fun) BS. You learn the game in the era you play in, not some future era, where you would have learned things a bit different, and had access to other resources and what not.

[riseagainst]

players before the 80's are just simply inferior to players of today. No contest. No arguments.

[Marchesk]

players before the 80's are just simply inferior to players of today. No contest. No arguments.

Kareem? Moses? Dr. J?

[CuterThanRubio]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8f/94/d0/8f94d0144f63ec4a77db0371e0a43714.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2011/news/features/shaun_powell/07/27/george-gervin-feature/0727-george-gervin-300.jpg

And in the 70s, you had a center:

http://estaticos01.marca.com/albumes/2015/05/04/nba_2015_mvp/1430724556_extras_albumes_0_980.jpg


Stop, stop, stop!

Look at that last picture, you are really trying to convey the idea that a player from a particular era would make it in today's league, but your example is a picture of a goofy white man standing there with cement feet playing zero defense against a sloppy uncontrolled dribble, give it a rest.

I've watched Frazier highlights, his game was not refined to modern standards, his handle was elite for the time period, but there are bigs nowadays that would be able to cross him up.

Do they not watch the games, Curry is a master from any range, if he played without the 3 point line he would simply bulk up a bit and adapt, hes that good, on the other hand guys like Frazier and Oscar would not understand how to play these days, at least it seems that way based on their misguided criticisms.

[PP34Deuce]

If I were any team, I'm throwing the farm to get michael conley.

He's the one defender I've seen give Curry fits one on one and off ball. Pretty sure last game they had he forced curry into bad shots and frustrated him.

[warriorfan]

Curry > Oscar > Clyde Frazier

They arn't dealing with it very well doe :(

[wordsRweapons]

OKC did a good job guarding Curry yesterday... the warriors are becoming too predictable

[tpols]

players before the 80's are just simply inferior to players of today. No contest. No arguments.

the 80s had more 20 ppg scorers than this era, was higher paced, and more free flowing .. yet these old timers stay watching their Bill Lambier and Kurt Rambis VHS highlights like the league was just one big brawl smh


Watching all those laker celtic re runs, the game in the half court was just more post oriented, swing it around til a nice little mid range jumper or layup opens up, and then fast breaking free flowing up and down the court..

defenders all sagging and anticipating the post moves, crowded around the paint. Nobody could shoot like Curry back then .. it would just be awkward seeing him shoot the shots he shoots back then, and defenses would have to completely change the way they play.


Its easy to handcheck and be physical when everyone is huddled in a smaller area of space and crammed together.. but when everyone on the other team can shoot 25 feet out, and the defense is spread thinner than ever before, that would be a total shock to them.

currys team would just have to treat him like Gretzky. Anyone starts some shit Bogut's breaking someones arm, send in the goons. Isaih survived in that era and he couldnt shoot for shit by comparison and was always slashing, yet curry whose game is pretty much the opposite of that is just going to break ? Nah..

[warriorfan]

Stop, stop, stop!

Look at that last picture, you are really trying to convey the idea that a player from a particular era would make it in today's league, but your example is a picture of a goofy white man standing there with cement feet playing zero defense against a sloppy uncontrolled dribble, give it a rest.

I've watched Frazier highlights, his game was not refined to modern standards, his handle was elite for the time period, but there are bigs nowadays that would be able to cross him up.

Do they not watch the games, Curry is a master from any range, if he played without the 3 point line he would simply bulk up a bit and adapt, hes that good, on the other hand guys like Frazier and Oscar would not understand how to play these days, at least it seems that way based on their misguided criticisms.

that goofy white dude is John Havlicek :lol

[Marchesk]

but your example is a picture of a goofy white man standing there with cement feet playing zero defense against a sloppy uncontrolled dribble, give it a rest.

That "goofy" dude is named Hondo. He didn't have cement feet. It's a still picture. What if posted something like this?

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Tony+Allen+Kevin+Durant+Oklahoma+City+Thunder+-kL94hRe08Bl.jpg

[PP34Deuce]

OKC did a good job guarding Curry yesterday... the warriors are becoming too predictable


The warriors move the ball very quick. If you have lengthy players like OKC, they can slightly slow it down.

[Showtime80']

Yeah that "goofy white guy" is John Havlicheck, a guy that would wreak havoc in today's soft perimeter friendly league!

Specially with today's game being riddled with raw, dumb, fundamentally flawed "black kids"!

[Marchesk]

The warriors move the ball very quick. If you have lengthy players like OKC, they can slightly slow it down.

Which the Bucks managed to do twice, almost.

[Phenith]

He basically said, once all the teams in the league figure out he likes to shoot threes, they will make adjustments to slow him down... wtf!?!?!
There is top teir defenders on him constantly and everyone and their mothers know he's looking for his next spot to shoot from behind the arc as he runs around countless screens.
That's the part that makes what he is doing so special... everyone knows what he's going to do, but they can't stop him and he just does it anyway.

GSW are not my team, but as an NBA fan, I am enjoying every minute of it, a Legend in the making, records broken, a dynasty brewing??? It's very possible this is Curry's peak season so I'm going to laugh at stuff like this and enjoy watching it rather than trying to diminish it.

[CuterThanRubio]

Exactly, that goofy moptop with the second most missed shots of all time wouldn't even make division one in college today.

If he didn't have cement feet explain how a center is flying by him off the dribble?

[warriorfan]

Exactly, that goofy moptop with the second most missed shots of all time wouldn't even make division one in college today.

If he didn't have cement feet explain how a center is flying by him off the dribble?

Well it looks like it's a loose ball more than a dribble drive... but even if it was by the time that photo was taken Hondo was in his mid 30's and Mcadoo was in his early 20's. McAdoo was also an MVP level player and actually won an MVP over Pime KAJ

[CuterThanRubio]

Well it looks like it's a loose ball more than a dribble drive... but even if it was by the time that photo was taken Hondo was in his mid 30's and Mcadoo was in his early 20's. McAdoo was also an MVP level player and actually won an MVP over KAJ in Kareem's prime.

Nah, that is clearly a slop-cross lol

Yeah I know who McAdoo is, but Havlicek is just garbage and wouldn't be able to play in 2016 in his mid 30s.

[Hopper15]

I love how uneasy Curry is making so many all time greats feel. :bowdown:

[PP34Deuce]

Which the Bucks managed to do twice, almost.


A defense that covers ground is vital. Bucks are a good example.

Perfect player to put on Curry is Michael Conley. You need someone that's smart defensively while being a very good athlete.

[jongib369]

Exactly, that goofy moptop with the second most missed shots of all time wouldn't even make division one in college today.

If he didn't have cement feet explain how a center is flying by him off the dribble?
You do realize Julius Erving said Hondo was one of the best defenders he has ever faced? He might of gone as far as saying the toughest.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/sgip8x.jpg

http://oi68.tinypic.com/339hqif.jpg

http://oi65.tinypic.com/vrerg1.jpg

http://www.tarheeltimes.com/photos/unc_basketball_photos/photos/James_Worthy_Michael_Jordan_Walter_Davis.jpg

Davis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/daviswa03.html) played into 92, and competed against the likes of Bird, Jordan etc etc. He also faced a guy who got drafted in 1963, that at the age of 36 could drop 32 on him(2 freethrows). Averaging 23.8 on 10.5 Attempts, with only 2.8 FTA. Whether they were guarding each other I'm not sure. But nevertheless I must concede, this proves Hondo couldn't play today

[imdaman99]

Teams choose to switch on the 500 picks Curry needs every game. They choose to do that because Warriors have a system where they will pass to the right guy almost every time. A lot of the time it's a cutting big man rather a pick and pop guy.

[CuterThanRubio]

You do realize Julius Erving said Hondo was one of the best defenders he has ever faced? He might of gone as far as saying the toughest.

http://oi68.tinypic.com/sgip8x.jpg

http://oi68.tinypic.com/339hqif.jpg

http://oi65.tinypic.com/vrerg1.jpg

http://www.tarheeltimes.com/photos/unc_basketball_photos/photos/James_Worthy_Michael_Jordan_Walter_Davis.jpg

Davis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/daviswa03.html) played into 92, and competed against the likes of Bird, Jordan etc etc. He also faced a guy who got drafted in 1963, that at the age of 36 could drop 32 on him(2 freethrows). Averaging 23.8 on 10.5 Attempts, with only 2.8 FTA. Whether they were guarding each other I'm not sure. But nevertheless I must concede, this proves Hondo couldn't play today

Post as many pictures as you want to, it isn't changing my opinion.

Why are the majority of these photos featuring him getting owned? lol

Struggling to keep up with Dr J and dribbling the ball at shoulder height, what a great player!

[jongib369]

Post as many pictures as you want to, it isn't changing my opinion.

Why are the majority of these photos featuring him getting owned? lol

Struggling to keep up with Dr J and dribbling the ball at shoulder height, what a great player!
I'm all for debates and dissenting opinions...But holy crap if I was a mod posters like you wouldn't last long on this board :lol

You contribute nothing

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/86/90/2a/86902a5fd49879658d1a95f56557fb06.jpg

I'm sure you're the type to see highlight of a guy scoring with the defender not stopping it and thinking "PFF __ player today would stop that errtime he put that shit up." Without even giving thought to what might of been going on in the clip. Was he out of position/beat, was he in foul trouble etc etc.

[Blue&Orange]

We should have a thread for retired players shitting on Curry, it seems at least one pops up every single week.
Clyde is not shitting on Curry.

[Blue&Orange]

His opinion sounded sensible. He's even praising Curry, talking about how we've never seen a shooter like him. That we can't really compare because Curry's greatness, the thing he does the best is shoot 3 point shots, and they didn't have a 3 point line back then. Then he went on a common sense opinion of what he would try to do. Should he just not answer the question and say, I can't do anything, he's going to score 60 on me? (People here really are betas. The only thing they understand is put your ass up and head down and be submissive.)

He also said another sensible thing, that he doesn't know how Curry is going to keep up this never before seen run in the following seasons, since teams are going to keep trying to find ways to slow him down. That's very sensible.

Like Jordan said to Anfernee. You can't expect to, just because you want to lead the league in scoring every year, because you always have to adjust to the new strategies that teams are coming up to stop you.
This. There were no 3 point line and perimeter defense is non existent today. Two undeniable facts. Outside that he only praised Curry.

[CuterThanRubio]

I'm all for debates and dissenting opinions...But holy crap if I was a mod posters like you wouldn't last long on this board :lol

You contribute nothing

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/86/90/2a/86902a5fd49879658d1a95f56557fb06.jpg

I'm sure you're the type to see highlight of a guy scoring with the defender not stopping it and thinking "PFF __ player today would stop that errtime he put that shit up." Without even giving thought to what might of been going on in the clip. Was he out of position/beat, was he in foul trouble etc etc.

That's why you aren't a mod, I've contributed plenty legitimate responses and will continue to do so, am I not allowed to hold the opinion that players from the 60s wouldn't be very good in today's league?

I think that is perfectly fine, and exaggerating for effect is necessary to get a point across in many cases, especially on forums.

How can you adamantly defend something you didn't even watch in real time? What pleasure do you get out of standing up for a white-washed high paced league that led to inflated stats.

An aging Havlicek would not be a worthy addition to any team, and his prime was during an era that deserves an asterisk.

[Max]I[muS-X]

Check out the super physical, rough defenses of the 70's that Curry would be too soft to handle...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYVjltXc5F8

Do they not realize we have game footage?

[jongib369]

I[muS-X']Check out the super physical, rough defenses of the 70's that Curry would be too soft to handle...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYVjltXc5F8

Do they not realize we have game footage?
Yes, and I can tell you don't understand what you're looking at

[CuterThanRubio]

LOL This is too easy.

You are right, I'm convinced now.

Curry would NEVER be able to score when the defensive STALWART Wilt Chamberlain is on the floor!

Please save the war stories.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2wrgjuh.jpg


2 players COMPLETELY unguarded in this sequence, it is clear that defensive schemes were not very complex back then and would not be capable of stopping calculated ball movement oriented offensives.

Keep in mind these were the BEST teams in the world that year.

[CuterThanRubio]

Hey, look! Another WIDE open shot.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2zrkg3n.jpg

The defender didn't even bother contesting it, either.

And will someone PLEASE explain what is happening here?

http://i67.tinypic.com/nf441h.jpg

2 lakers in the paint, guarding absolutely no one, 2 more Lakers BEHIND the play standing and watching, and this is GAME 7 of the finals, talk about intensity!

You can't make excuses for this stuff, sorry Jongib

[Max]I[muS-X]

Yeah I was pretty surprised he tried to whitewash that video by saying I "don't understand" what I was seeing, lol. I was about to go through every possession one by one. Aside from the slower play and poorer ball handling, not to mention wide open looks from around the free throw line for star players for no apparent reason, there is no "rough defense" here. It's soft as butter, and there are touch fouls, too. And it's the FINALS game 7...

[AlphaWolf24]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8f/94/d0/8f94d0144f63ec4a77db0371e0a43714.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2011/news/features/shaun_powell/07/27/george-gervin-feature/0727-george-gervin-300.jpg

And in the 70s, you had a center:

http://estaticos01.marca.com/albumes/2015/05/04/nba_2015_mvp/1430724556_extras_albumes_0_980.jpg


I didn't watch much of Macadoo except when he came to L.A.....he was more of a energy guy....not a major focal point on offense.

Gervin has a little Durant in him...but no where the perimeter game Durant has.

Bird I watched alot of...again..the era was much different.
Bird could Dominate from the Pinch Post and do everything there....I know Bird could shoot from anywhere....but I believe Durant shoots more 3's and 30' footers in the past 2 seasons then Bird shot his whole career.

Durant is much different...in the context his game starts from much further out....He could literally start the offense from beyond the 3 point line and create off of the dribble....and make that option the primary focus of the offense night in and night out


None of those guys you pictured could do that.....not on Durants level.
Durant in the 80's would not handle the ball as often...would not create off of the dribble...would not shoots as many perimeter jumpers/3's. ( no one did)

he would do all of his work from the post/pinch...and considering his size....I'm not sure he would be that effective on offense with that skillset

[Blue&Orange]

I[muS-X']Check out the super physical, rough defenses of the 70's that Curry would be too soft to handle...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYVjltXc5F8

Do they not realize we have game footage?
Please give me your contact information, i want to be able to contact you asap as i see a highlight scoring video where defenses look competent.

[plowking]

Can we all stop pretending like skills and fundamentals are at an all time low?

Facts point out the opposite. Players have never been better in terms of skills. Typical complaint you hear from the older posters and older players, but it simply doesn't ring true. Usually boils down to not being able to do one particular shot or particular move well anymore, and acting as if this is a constant throughout the rest of a players skill range.


Players today are more fine tuned, and bigger investments than ever before. They are protected, looked after, trained, and expected to do so much more than ever before.

As for Clyde... yes, we know Curry wants to shoot 3's. We see defenders do everything to try and stop it. Sometimes it is hard when the guy has the best handle in the league, is one of the best passers in the league, and the fact he can shoot with only 2 feet of separation at a near 50% clip kinda hinders a players ability to stop him in any way.

I mean the dude had 33 points last night in one of his worst games of the season.

[jongib369]

That's why you aren't a mod, I've contributed plenty legitimate responses and will continue to do so, am I not allowed to hold the opinion that players from the 60s wouldn't be very good in today's league?

I think that is perfectly fine, and exaggerating for effect is necessary to get a point across in many cases, especially on forums.

How can you adamantly defend something you didn't even watch in real time? What pleasure do you get out of standing up for a white-washed high paced league that led to inflated stats.

An aging Havlicek would not be a worthy addition to any team, and his prime was during an era that deserves an asterisk.

You've got 89 posts, I'd like to see those responses...I'm not familiar with you enough to say you haven't...But with how long you've been on the site you're either on here casually, or are an alt, and it seems as if nothing you've said so far has warranted any positive rep. System isn't perfect, but it usually shows when someone is likely a shit poster.

You're allowed to hold that opinion, but you've shown no capability of demonstrating why a star player from that era, who played DAMN well against other stars who transcended it couldn't play at all today. Regardless of the fact that you come off as not knowing too much about the era, like rules, middle of the road players etc etc...I'd be more sympathetic towards not thinking Joey "hot dog" Schmoemeiker who averaged 4PPG on the bench couldn't make the league....But John Havlicek? You'll have to try really hard. I would be a very reasonable mod, and I wouldn't out right ban you. I'd just force you to stop the BS, and actually put your full opinion out there. Your purposeful exaggerating isn't necessary at all to get any point across, another reason why you'd be in hot water with me. I've exaggerated in the past, making titles like "Bill Russell thinks Bob Pettit is top 10, is he crazy?" to grab attention to a tpic that never gets as much love as it should...Your opinions, from the little I've seen are nothing but shit posting until you go at it in depth. Showcasing not just your basic grasp of the game today, but that you're familiar with back then too.

What does not being able to watch it in real time have to do with anything? The amount of footage leaves a lot to be desired yes, but there's enough of it to get a basic assessment about what was going on back then. When you look at the culture/style that was taught, the differences in dribbling, assisting, charging rules etc things start to make sense on why things looked the way they did. Am I saying players back then are just as skilled? No, but there's also skills that these guys have that todays players lack. There would be adjustments that players today would have to make in order to even step on the court back then.

This in particular is a weak argument... But an aging Havlicek that could put up 30 something points, I think guarded by a guy that played into the 90s IMO shows he would at the very least be a worthy addition to any team. And in his prime? Not even a question. To me, it's laughable to suggest otherwise.



If you moved Steph to the 60s and we had 10 minutes of shitty slow motion footage of a skinny guy who looks 15 100% of the people hating on Oscar would be saying he couldnt be a star today. The arguments are never about the ability of the players...skill by skill. Mostly because the people talking dont know shit about the players in question.

Oscars detractors cant speak with any knowledge about his entry passing, pullup jumper, strength, or basketball IQ. They dont judge him or most of his peers by ability...because they dont know anything specific. They tell you....the era was this or that. As if that means everyone was this or that.

Fact is....if I put Michael Jordan into say....the CBA....no matter how dominant...people wouldnt say he was the best basketball player ever. Because they would judge his opponents and consider his dominance irrelevant. But here is the problem....

Hes the same player.

If Jordan never came to the NBA....went to europe instead....he may be just as good...but you wouldnt accept it.

If Bird played in europe....worse? No. But he would be seen as a slow unathletic good passing shooter who couldnt hack it in the NBA. Is he worse? No. You are just ignorant of his ability because you dont judge him by skill...you glance at circumstances and write him off. You need to see him play people you respect...to judge him. But that doesnt make him worse at basketball. At worst it makes him unproven....but the talent is what it is.

And really....people dont know much about the talent of these people. Wilt was roy Hibberts height but moving like this:








http://giant.gfycat.com/UnrealisticTallGeese.gif





*not in the nba for the record for those about to point out the small players*






And a great many people have convinced themselves he couldnt be anything noteworthy today because they consider his competition poor(not knowing shit about them either).

Really...if you base your opinion on how good someone is...on how good you think their opponents are...I dont think I even value your opinion. If you cant tall me about his game....why talk about how good he is or isnt?

Even if the league is somehow worse...if you dont know his game...you dont know shit. A worse league can justify giving his accomplishments less weight relative to modern players....but if you cant tell me specifics about why hes bad or good at basketball I dont know that I need your opinion in the first place.


If this is Curry...or Lin....or Etwaun moore on him...these shots dont go in?





https://giant.gfycat.com/LiveSlimyKitten.gif





Of course not.

The problem is...he played such a different game. And different doesnt mean worse....it just means different. Clearly Steph minus a 3 point line....cant play his game. It would be illogical. Doesnt mean hes worse....it means he would have to play differently. You adjust to the situation you are placed in. Oscar wouldnt take a 10 footer when he could get 8. He wouldnt use more energy than he had to. He was a 6'5'' high jumper who has like 2 dunks on camera in his career and im not sure he ever dunked in a game. He didnt see the reason to use the energy. He was all about staying consistent...every game...every minute. He was skilled of course. He shot better from the FT line than Kobe(not by much but he did). He lived off contested midrange jumpers and post play.

But the league isnt built on that anymore. It wouldnt make him worse....it would make him less suited for today. But how suited you are to a certain set of rules and style doesnt determine your ability.

His skill...his work ethic...his basketball IQ...tenacity. That determines his good he is at basketball. How good he would be today is a matter of circumstances. Not talent. He put his life into developing a style of game that we dont ask for as often. Of course hes less suited to this league. He wasnt trying to play our game.

Not being as suited to a style you were not asked to play doesnt make you worse. It makes you different. We cant judge his talent relative to modern players when he isnt asked to do what they do. How many modern points could make a living scoring 30 a game often guarded by small and power forwards in the post?

Doesnt make them worse.

It makes them different.


You know that you thinking that isnt evidence of it being true right?

You have no idea what their offense would even look like in the 70s. Really. Why would they play the way they do now without a 3 point line?

Is Steve Kerr an idiot? He gonna have Klay and Steph taking 28 foot 2 pointers at 40% while Kareem is making 60% of his sky hooks?

They would literally have to rebuild their offense from the ground up and you act like you know how effective it would be.

Teams are built for the times they play in.

[LAZERUSS]

Exactly, that goofy moptop with the second most missed shots of all time wouldn't even make division one in college today.

If he didn't have cement feet explain how a center is flying by him off the dribble?



MISSED SHOTS????!!!!

:roll: :roll: :roll:


If this complete clown can START on an NBA team, then Hondo in his LAST game was a FAR better player...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=993UTozPECc

A CAREER .401 eFG% in an era in which entire leagues are shooting .500.


And here was a 37 year old Hondo in his LAST game...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vekb4RhplI

29 pts, 8 asts, 4 rebs.

[jongib369]

Can we all stop pretending like skills and fundamentals are at an all time low?

Facts point out the opposite. Players have never been better in terms of skills. Typical complaint you hear from the older posters and older players, but it simply doesn't ring true. Usually boils down to not being able to do one particular shot or particular move well anymore, and acting as if this is a constant throughout the rest of a players skill range.


Players today are more fine tuned, and bigger investments than ever before. They are protected, looked after, trained, and expected to do so much more than ever before.

As for Clyde... yes, we know Curry wants to shoot 3's. We see defenders do everything to try and stop it. Sometimes it is hard when the guy has the best handle in the league, is one of the best passers in the league, and the fact he can shoot with only 2 feet of separation at a near 50% clip kinda hinders a players ability to stop him in any way.

I mean the dude had 33 points last night in one of his worst games of the season.
I like you better in threads about lifting

You're of the opinion that Havlicek would be a scrub today right? Think I made a thread about your opinions regarding it actually

[CuterThanRubio]

I'm not an alt, I've been lurking for a few years and when I finally decided to join I was forced to to wait another handful of months for activation, it's ridiculous that I even continued reading the board after waiting so long, but I'm here now so deal.

Anyways, back to the subject

+I've already PROVEN my point, 70's/60's era basketball is WEAK and the defense is POROUS. Did you completely ignore the images because you don't like me as a poster? lol Sure seems that way from my side.

Walt Frazier must not have seen film of himself if he really thinks he would be able to guard Curry.

You must have numerous mental deficiencies if you truly believe that the level of play from that time period holds up to today's standards, this is not debatable and I'm just going to be the 3ball of screenshots exposing sh!tty oldschool tactics when I see threads like this from now on.

I mean, I posted a screenshot of WILT and ELGIN BAYLOR of all people refusing to defend, these aren't random scrubs, they were the best of the best, yet you are still in denial. I don't understand.

It's hilarious to me that you posted a picture of Magic after I discredited Havlicek, um, hello lol, Magic is one of the greatest ever and Havlicek is just a product of a watered down league. They aren't comparable.

[jongib369]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GuSEDd2hObA/UQyP9qI4QSI/AAAAAAAAEEk/r0YvjdsPSmg/s800/Sam%2520Jones%2520Celtics%2520Fast%2520Break2.gif

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-E2QaFKrp2J8/UQyTgkZ-_6I/AAAAAAAAEFY/KPvgplP_TYQ/s800/JoeCaldwellDunk.gif

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TpG_zNnqCzo/UQypBiN5ZYI/AAAAAAAAEJY/FW8G52ODYQs/s800/Oscar%2520and%2520Russell%2520torching%2520the%252 0West%2520squad%25201965%2520ASG.gif

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vy1F0VB7IwE/UQytNdg07JI/AAAAAAAAEJ0/tmfA9ARfGKI/s800/WiltFootwork1.gif

http://49.media.tumblr.com/42e5310ab2b633be899c2ce1b744c96e/tumblr_nca7xod0fj1s3gys4o2_400.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20Crazy%20Shot/Finger%20Roll/Wilt%20Chamberlain/01.gif

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WrtmSCDHwnM/USl2IPCmW2I/AAAAAAAAEVI/YTpQiR9mxJo/s800/Hawkins%2520Dunk.gif

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--3oPwC10q_M/UQyi5dbDtCI/AAAAAAAAEIU/4k4JlbkQNto/s800/Willis%2520Torching%2520Bill%2520Russell.gif

[jongib369]

I'm not an alt, I've been lurking for a few years and when I finally decided to join I was forced to to wait another handful of months for activation, it's ridiculous that I even continued reading the board after waiting so long, but I'm here now so deal.

Anyways, back to the subject

+I've already PROVEN my point, 70's/60's era basketball is WEAK and the defense is POROUS. Did you completely ignore the images because you don't like me as a poster? lol Sure seems that way from my side.

Walt Frazier must not have seen film of himself if he really thinks he would be able to guard Curry.

You must have numerous mental deficiencies if you truly believe that the level of play from that time period holds up to today's standards, this is not debatable and I'm just going to be the 3ball of screenshots exposing sh!tty oldschool tactics when I see threads like this from now on.

I mean, I posted a screenshot of WILT and ELGIN BAYLOR of all people refusing to defend, these aren't random scrubs, they were the best of the best, yet you are still in denial. I don't understand.

It's hilarious to me that you posted a picture of Magic after I discredited Havlicek, um, hello lol, Magic is one of the greatest ever and Havlicek is just a product of a watered down league. They aren't comparable.

:lol

A year or two separated them you dolt... Are you saying like 80% of magics competition was garbage until 1987?


If you moved Steph to the 60s and we had 10 minutes of shitty slow motion footage of a skinny guy who looks 15 100% of the people hating on Oscar would be saying he couldnt be a star today. The arguments are never about the ability of the players...skill by skill. Mostly because the people talking dont know shit about the players in question.

Oscars detractors cant speak with any knowledge about his entry passing, pullup jumper, strength, or basketball IQ. They dont judge him or most of his peers by ability...because they dont know anything specific. They tell you....the era was this or that. As if that means everyone was this or that.

Fact is....if I put Michael Jordan into say....the CBA....no matter how dominant...people wouldnt say he was the best basketball player ever. Because they would judge his opponents and consider his dominance irrelevant. But here is the problem....

Hes the same player.

If Jordan never came to the NBA....went to europe instead....he may be just as good...but you wouldnt accept it.

If Bird played in europe....worse? No. But he would be seen as a slow unathletic good passing shooter who couldnt hack it in the NBA. Is he worse? No. You are just ignorant of his ability because you dont judge him by skill...you glance at circumstances and write him off. You need to see him play people you respect...to judge him. But that doesnt make him worse at basketball. At worst it makes him unproven....but the talent is what it is.

And really....people dont know much about the talent of these people. Wilt was roy Hibberts height but moving like this:








http://giant.gfycat.com/UnrealisticTallGeese.gif





*not in the nba for the record for those about to point out the small players*






And a great many people have convinced themselves he couldnt be anything noteworthy today because they consider his competition poor(not knowing shit about them either).

Really...if you base your opinion on how good someone is...on how good you think their opponents are...I dont think I even value your opinion. If you cant tall me about his game....why talk about how good he is or isnt?

Even if the league is somehow worse...if you dont know his game...you dont know shit. A worse league can justify giving his accomplishments less weight relative to modern players....but if you cant tell me specifics about why hes bad or good at basketball I dont know that I need your opinion in the first place.


If this is Curry...or Lin....or Etwaun moore on him...these shots dont go in?





https://giant.gfycat.com/LiveSlimyKitten.gif





Of course not.

The problem is...he played such a different game. And different doesnt mean worse....it just means different. Clearly Steph minus a 3 point line....cant play his game. It would be illogical. Doesnt mean hes worse....it means he would have to play differently. You adjust to the situation you are placed in. Oscar wouldnt take a 10 footer when he could get 8. He wouldnt use more energy than he had to. He was a 6'5'' high jumper who has like 2 dunks on camera in his career and im not sure he ever dunked in a game. He didnt see the reason to use the energy. He was all about staying consistent...every game...every minute. He was skilled of course. He shot better from the FT line than Kobe(not by much but he did). He lived off contested midrange jumpers and post play.

But the league isnt built on that anymore. It wouldnt make him worse....it would make him less suited for today. But how suited you are to a certain set of rules and style doesnt determine your ability.

His skill...his work ethic...his basketball IQ...tenacity. That determines his good he is at basketball. How good he would be today is a matter of circumstances. Not talent. He put his life into developing a style of game that we dont ask for as often. Of course hes less suited to this league. He wasnt trying to play our game.

Not being as suited to a style you were not asked to play doesnt make you worse. It makes you different. We cant judge his talent relative to modern players when he isnt asked to do what they do. How many modern points could make a living scoring 30 a game often guarded by small and power forwards in the post?

Doesnt make them worse.

It makes them different.


You know that you thinking that isnt evidence of it being true right?

You have no idea what their offense would even look like in the 70s. Really. Why would they play the way they do now without a 3 point line?

Is Steve Kerr an idiot? He gonna have Klay and Steph taking 28 foot 2 pointers at 40% while Kareem is making 60% of his sky hooks?

They would literally have to rebuild their offense from the ground up and you act like you know how effective it would be.

Teams are built for the times they play in.

I'll be back on later, go right ahead and post w/e you like. Sure I'll enjoy reading.

[CuterThanRubio]

I see slow footed white guys failing to rotate properly

KAJ dunking on a guy who ISN'T even facing towards him lol.

Chamberlain taking advantage of total scrubs.

Not impressive at all.

[jongib369]

I see slow footed white guys failing to rotate properly

KAJ dunking on a guy who ISN'T even facing towards him lol.

Chamberlain taking advantage of total scrubs.

Not impressive at all.
best defender Kareem ever faced. Held him to below 45% shooting. Hakeem, Ewing, Sampson, Parrish etc etc etc couldn't do that.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/teamsites/images/legacy/cavaliers/nate_120828.jpg

http://oi67.tinypic.com/snyqno.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Golden%20State%20Warriors/Nate%20Thurmond/db7b99f4.gif

https://33.media.tumblr.com/27d39c5a38e761e62a5bf01c3ad9dacf/tumblr_np5hjtmluP1s3gys4o1_400.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Golden%20State%20Warriors/Nate%20Thurmond/2.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20Crazy%20Shot/Finger%20Roll/Wilt%20Chamberlain/01.gif

[LAZERUSS]

I see slow footed white guys failing to rotate properly

KAJ dunking on a guy who ISN'T even facing towards him lol.

Chamberlain taking advantage of total scrubs.

Not impressive at all.

This KAJ was 39 years old. Yes, you read that right... 39 years old.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2013/09/13/20130803-kareem-vs-rockets.nba/

46 points, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes. Can you name me the two players who TRIED to defend him?

BTW, that was his THIRD 40+ point game at that age against that laughable clown who was trying to guard him. And in his 23 career H2H's with that scrub, he shot.... get this... .607 from the field. Who would ever have imagined that that incompetent fool would battle Shaq to a near draw in a Finals some 8 years later.

Of course, we all know that Shaq would just be a role player in TODAY's NBA, right. Incidently, a peak Shaq's career high game against that boob... 37 points. And yet a 39 year old was routinely carpet-bombing that same pathetic clown with 40+ point games.


Oh, and a PEAK Kareem faced a fading full-time Nate Thurmond in 35 career H2H's, and his HIGH game was 34 points. Not only that, but in those 35 games, he shot...get this... .447 from the floor.


All of which leads us to this conclusion... Nate Thurmond > Shaq.

[jongib369]

This KAJ was 39 years old. Yes, you read that right... 39 years old.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2013/09/13/20130803-kareem-vs-rockets.nba/

46 points, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes. Can you name me the two players who TRIED to defend him?

BTW, that was his THIRD 40+ point game at that age against that laughable clown who was trying to guard him. And in his 23 career H2H's with that scrub, he shot.... get this... .607 from the field. Who would ever have imagined that that incompetent fool would battle Shaq to a near draw in a Finals some 8 years later.

Of course, we all know that Shaq would just be a role player in TODAY's NBA, right. Incidently, a peak Shaq's career high game against that boob... 37 points. And yet a 39 year old was routinely carpet-bombing that same pathetic clown with 40+ point games.


Oh, and a PEAK Kareem faced a fading full-time Nate Thurmond in 35 career H2H's, and his HIGH game was 34 points. Not only that, but in those 35 games, he shot...get this... .447 from the floor.


All of which leads us to this conclusion... Nate Thurmond > Shaq.
Don't worry laz he's not a serious poster... He says he saw slow footed white guys, when like 80-90% of the people in the gifs are black :lol

Do you happen to remember the title of the thread that showed by year how many African American players were int he league at the time?

[TomBrady]

That hairline! Where have I seen something like it before?





:lebronamazed:

[Max]I[muS-X]

Don't worry laz he's not a serious poster... He says he saw slow footed white guys, when like 80-90% of the people in the gifs are black :lol

Do you happen to remember the title of the thread that showed by year how many African American players were int he league at the time?

Can you show me a game, not a gif, but one game out of hundreds that were played, from the 60s or 70s, that showcases this consistent, tough defense we keep hearing about? Especially on the perimeter. I'm actually interested in taking a look at it. I know for a fact these old guys have exaggerated just from watching the available footage and seeing it with my own eyes, but it would be nice to see one example that could hold water with some of these claims about tough defense for perimeter players.

[CuterThanRubio]

You said the best defender he "faced"

Doesn't look like he was "facing" him very often lol

I didn't say that all of Magic's competition was garbage, but Magic was leaps and bounds above the rest of the pack.

4 of those gifs featured sloppy white guys getting owned, come on now, you aren't even allowing opposing opinions to enter your mind, you are just JADED.

Just relax, you can live vicariously through grainy clips and I'll continue enjoying the sport as it progresses.

There is nothing left for me to say, I proved Walt Frazier wrong, that's what this thread is about, stop derailing the original discussion.

[CuterThanRubio]

I[muS-X']Can you show me a game, not a gif, but one game out of hundreds that were played, from the 60s or 70s, that showcases this consistent, tough defense we keep hearing about? Especially on the perimeter. I'm actually interested in taking a look at it. I know for a fact these old guys have exaggerated just from watching the available footage and seeing it with my own eyes, but it would be nice to see one example that could hold water with some of these claims about tough defense for perimeter players.

Bingo!

A single play from a game that featured a very fast pace and a large amount of possessions does not illustrate how the entire contest was played.

Of course there were some individual moments that led to exciting highlights, but the majority of the games back then were SLOPPY and frenzied skirmishes.

Watch game 7 of the 70 finals if you think I'm just talking trash, my opinions are based on VISUAL EVIDENCE.

You just can't stand my opinion and label it trolling, yeah, okay pal lol

[jongib369]

You said the best defender he "faced"

Doesn't look like he was "facing" him very often lol

I didn't say that all of Magic's competition was garbage, but Magic was leaps and bounds above the rest of the pack.

4 of those gifs featured sloppy white guys getting owned, come on now, you aren't even allowing opposing opinions to enter your mind, you are just JADED.

Just relax, you can live vicariously through grainy clips and I'll continue enjoying the sport as it progresses.

There is nothing left for me to say, I proved Walt Frazier wrong, that's what this thread is about, stop derailing the original discussion.
Thurmond VS Kareem 37 Games regular season, 16 games postseason. I think Kareem shot 43%, but I don't remember the exact number.

Kareem VS Hakeem - 23 games regular season, 5 games post. Kareem shooting .607%




The amount of games Wilt and Shaq faced there top 7 piers (big WHOOPS if I missed someone...all thenumbers are off the top of my head...the are deff right except for reed...I might be like 4 to 5 games off TOPS...possibly the with same with Thurmond)


WILT


Russell- 142

Bellamy- 108

reed 74

Nate- 64

Kareem- 28

unseld- 20

Lanier 16


Totat= 452




SHAQ

Duncan 62

Robinson- 40

Mutombo-29

Hakeem- 28

Ewing- 26

Ming 18

Mourning 16


Total Games= 219


Wilt played more than twice the amount of games against his top 7 piers than shaq

:biggums:

Plenty of games to show that Thurmond really bothered Kareem. Wilt, and Thurmond are the only two to ever hold Kareem below 50%.

I have allowed opposing points of view enter my mind...Unless I accidentally browsed over it I just haven't seen any of your opinions worthy of being in my magnificent head. :cheers:

[jongib369]

Bingo!

A single play from a game that featured a very fast pace and a large amount of possessions does not illustrate how the entire contest was played.

Of course there were some individual moments that led to exciting highlights, but the majority of the games back then were SLOPPY and frenzied skirmishes.

Watch game 7 of the 70 finals if you think I'm just talking trash, my opinions are based on VISUAL EVIDENCE.

You just can't stand my opinion and label it trolling, yeah, okay pal lol

I label it trash because it's exactly that. You look at those clips thinking Curry and the Warriors could step on their court and play exactly the same, and the defenses would defend them just like in the video. The Warriors offensive strategy wouldn't work then, they'd have to rebuild a bit though they would be great.

You don't admit the adjustments todays players would have to make to be able to step on the court. You show no understanding of rules from back then, and you fail to realize at the adjustments those players would make today also.

What Oscar said is wrong. I believe Frazier would defend Curry as good, if not better than most do today...But he wouldn't stop him. If Curry played back then, he would have to change his game quite a bit...So he wouldn't be AS good...But he'd still be one of the best IMO. But with that said, that era with it's charging rules, dribbling rules, and hand checking would give curry speed bumps he doesn't have to deal with today. But again, wouldn't stop him. Apologies I rushed this since I REALLY have to go now, but go ahead and post your thoughts out in depth. I'll consider making a thread about it, so not just I can address you specifically. People who actually saw the era, have just seen more of it, and understand the game better than I can put their two cents in. I'm curious what Kblaze would have to say, he seems to be one of the more reasonable posters on here

[tmacattack33]

I am dissapointed in what I read in the OP.

I was hoping for something a little more intelligent than that.

Frazier basically just said that he wouldn't allow Curry to take threes if he was defending him.


And...umm...this would allow Curry to blow past him very easily. Curry has a great mid-range game and finishes nicely around the rim. He's also a great passer.

That is pretty stupid and embarrassing for an ex-NBA player to say that.

[jongib369]

I am dissapointed in what I read in the OP.

I was hoping for something a little more intelligent than that.

Frazier basically just said that he wouldn't allow Curry to take threes if he was defending him.


And...umm...this would allow Curry to blow past him very easily. Curry has a great mid-range game and finishes nicely around the rim. He's also a great passer.

That is pretty stupid and embarrassing for an ex-NBA player to say that.
"This is the other thing guys -- my forte was defense ... any phenomenal player, I had to guard that guy. So when I'm guarding these guys, I'm trying to take away what they do best. So today, if I'm guarding Curry, he might have 25 2s on me, but he's not gonna have 13 3s because I'm gonna be forcing him inside of the arc."

[LakersForlife]

This 70's players that was my on performance enhancing drugs back then should stfu

[plowking]

Most people will tell you that bigs from back in the day would still be very good even without the advantages, training methods, nutrition, etc of today. The big man game developed a lot quicker, and the unique aspect of being the biggest guy on the court and putting in easy shots hasn't really changed.

The guard play has improved exponentially though. A ridiculous amount. If you can't see that, you're blind, and don't know what you're talking about.

[Da_Realist]

I am dissapointed in what I read in the OP.

I was hoping for something a little more intelligent than that.

Frazier basically just said that he wouldn't allow Curry to take threes if he was defending him.


And...umm...this would allow Curry to blow past him very easily. Curry has a great mid-range game and finishes nicely around the rim. He's also a great passer.

That is pretty stupid and embarrassing for an ex-NBA player to say that.

Curry would get past him but he wouldn't be shooting layups like he does today with the wide open lanes. When Curry fakes a three and gets his man off-balance, he's basically rolling downhill because there is no inside presence in the lane. A three or a layup. A defender would have more confidence guarding Curry on the perimeter if he knew he had Reed or Ewing or Robinson or Olajuwon guarding the paint in case he gets beat off the dribble.

[LakersForlife]

this steroid infested era (60's and 70's) should stfu

[OldSchoolBBall]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Golden%20State%20Warriors/Nate%20Thurmond/2.gif


Thurmond's wingspan - or at least his arm length, since he wasn't very broad - looks ridiculous here. Stretchy arms lol.

[tpols]

Curry would get past him but he wouldn't be shooting layups like he does today with the wide open lanes. When Curry fakes a three and gets his man off-balance, he's basically rolling downhill because there is no inside presence in the lane. A three or a layup. A defender would have more confidence guarding Curry on the perimeter if he knew he had Reed or Ewing or Robinson or Olajuwon guarding the paint in case he gets beat off the dribble.

Curry's got a pretty sick floater.. that was lefty on a right drive too, unreal

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/funnymunny77/What_does_Curry_have_against_Durant_Cold_zpsbtvjuv qz.gif

[Derka]

No one cares what a bearded man who dressed like a 70s Vegas hooker had to say about Steph Curry.

[Da_Realist]

Curry's got a pretty sick floater.. that was lefty on a right drive too, unreal

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/funnymunny77/What_does_Curry_have_against_Durant_Cold_zpsbtvjuv qz.gif

He does. Yet it's always better to force your opponent to make shots like that instead of easy layups like he gets most of the time.

[Akhenaten]

The thing that I think makes a lot of the older players bitter is the fact that the NBA has altered it's rules so much specially after the early 90's

You mean '80's right? Hand checking was outlawed in 1979.

[jongib369]

Curry's got a pretty sick floater.. that was lefty on a right drive too, unreal

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/funnymunny77/What_does_Curry_have_against_Durant_Cold_zpsbtvjuv qz.gif
He's amazing to watch. Couple of times he might of got whistled in the old days, but if he refined his dribbling to their standards just a bit, he'd be able to do that move and hit it on most. Thurmond, Russell, and Wilt aren't invincible but they'd certainly cause problems for him. Somebody needs to make an image of Curry making a shot over Russell, Wilt etc. Would be a neat image

[jongib369]

You mean '80's right? Hand checking was outlawed in 1979.
1978-79

[jstern]

I'm still amazed by the comprehension, reaction to what Frazier said. The OP writes on the title,"Frazier says he'd defend Curry better." And that's also on the link that he gave. But in nowhere in the article does he say that.


He says, "What has made him great is his ability, uncanny ability, to shoot from 30 feet, 35 feet, the accuracy that he has shown in making that particular shot." Curry is the GOAT 3 point shooter that ever lived. Is that not his number one advantage? So would that not be an aspect of his game that would suffer if he played back then? Is Frazier right that we really can't compare?


But defensive stan boys take it to mean that he's saying that Curry would average 0PPG because 60s players were so superior.


Then if you read the article, not the OP, Frazier talks about what he calls a once-in-a-career campaign that all the All Time Greats have. He says, “To me, I look at the most phenomenal seasons in the NBA — Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points per game, Nate Archibald led the league in scoring and assists, the ‘Big O’ averaged a triple-double — but they didn’t do that every year,” he told ESPN. “They never reached that pinnacle once they did that."


Only using player from his eras as examples. That it's hard to maintain that once in a career where a player dominates the league like no one ever (again, that can be interpreted as more praise for Curry), because from his experience and observation watching basketball back then and now, the league as a whole will find a way to better contain such a play, even if just slightly enough so that they won't equal that feat.


It just all reminds me of political party, how every group interprets things they way that makes them feel the most outraged about the other group.

[jongib369]

I'm still amazed by the comprehension, reaction to what Frazier said. The OP writes on the title,"Frazier says he'd defend Curry better." And that's also on the link that he gave. But in nowhere in the article does he say that.


He says, "What has made him great is his ability, uncanny ability, to shoot from 30 feet, 35 feet, the accuracy that he has shown in making that particular shot." Curry is the GOAT 3 point shooter that ever lived. Is that not his number one advantage? So would that not be an aspect of his game that would suffer if he played back then? Is Frazier right that we really can't compare?


But defensive stan boys take it to mean that he's saying that Curry would average 0PPG because 60s players were so superior.


Then if you read the article, not the OP, Frazier talks about what he calls a once-in-a-career campaign that all the All Time Greats have. He says, “To me, I look at the most phenomenal seasons in the NBA — Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points per game, Nate Archibald led the league in scoring and assists, the ‘Big O’ averaged a triple-double — but they didn’t do that every year,” he told ESPN. “They never reached that pinnacle once they did that."


Only using player from his eras as examples. That it's hard to maintain that once in a career where a player dominates the league like no one ever (again, that can be interpreted as more praise for Curry), because from his experience and observation watching basketball back then and now, the league as a whole will find a way to better contain such a play, even if just slightly enough so that they won't equal that feat.


It just all reminds me of political party, how every group interprets things they way that makes them feel the most outraged about the other group.
Good point! I'm surprised no one else brought that up... I left the title as is mostly to grab attention. Did it make a difference in the amount of views? Maybe not

[jstern]

Oops, Wrong thread. Same OP, wrong thread.

[jongib369]

Oops, Wrong thread. Same OP, wrong thread.
Which thread did you intend it for?

[Human Error]

Modern day NBA ballers are bigger, more athletic, have better handles and shoot better. What makes you think old generation players would defend modern day ballers better? :oldlol: And nowdays every facet of the game is analyzed and quantified, it is also MYTH that old players had better defensive tactics. Game has evolved, it is like saying 70s Camaro would outrun a 2016 Ferrari.

[Blue&Orange]

Anyone that thinks if the 3 point line didn't exist and the paint was packed to defend the efficient 2 point shot, Curry would still be scoring loads of points on historic efficiency is basically braindead. Even on a pathetic big man era as this.

Apply the rules on traveling, palming and perimeter defense of previous eras and things get uglier.

Those are fact that can be only debatable by people that are ignorant to the game and it's history. I mean it's not like even his coach, said Curry benefits from today's game rules, and he wasn't even going back as far as the 70's.

Yes Frazier in the 70's would defend Curry better than anyone else today, not so much because he was a great defender, but mostly because of the game rules back then.



And idiots need to understand time machines don't exist, really TIME MACHINES DON'T EXIST, you can't put 2016 Curry in the 70's because TIME MACHINES DON'T EXIST, if you want to put Curry in the 70's, he needs to have been born in the 50's, and i don't need to explain what that entails or do i?

[jstern]

Which thread did you intend it for?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380332

[ace23]

Curry is a 6 or 7-time all-star at best without the three-point line. This should be obvious as he has no truly outstanding strength outside of his long-distance shooting ability. Frazier has a point there.

First-ballot hall-of-famer as is though.

[warriorfan]

Curry is a 6 or 7-time all-star at best without the three-point line. This should be obvious as he has no truly outstanding strength outside of his long-distance shooting ability. Frazier has a point there.

First-ballot hall-of-famer as is though.

bruh, curry is one of the best finishers at the rim in the league

curry is leading the league in scoring while having the highest field goal percentage by any guard in the league at .514

does that sound like someone whos only strength is long distance shooting?

[zbott]

[QUOTE=jongib369][URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/03/03/walt-frazier-is-the-latest-nba-legend-to-say-hed-defend-steph-curry-better/"]When Oscar Robertson opined recently that a big part of Steph Curry

[jongib369]

bruh, curry is one of the best finishers at the rim in the league

curry is leading the league in scoring while having the highest field goal percentage by any guard in the league at .514

does that sound like someone whos only strength is long distance shooting?
I agree with you

Even with hand checking, camping in the lane etc he'd still be able to drive and finish. Would it be harder? Yes, but not to the extent the other poster said.

Of all the centers from back then, Russell would be the biggest pain in the ass for him IMO. He was long, quick, had great timing and loved coming out of the paint to swat guards. He'd be a problem for any guard, from any era. Don't care if your name is Jordan, Curry, LeBron etc.

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-27-2015/v_N9hm.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/Comparision%20n%20Similarity/The%20Dream/n%20Bill/-.gif

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/138/7/f/russdunkolympics_by_dantheman9758-d506gc1.gif

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D8An5-Kzhs4/USlMjAQh2AI/AAAAAAAAEOM/br39i-CNsm4/s800/Bill%2520Russell%2520Flight.gif

[zbott]

Nah, that is clearly a slop-cross lol

Yeah I know who McAdoo is, but Havlicek is just garbage and wouldn't be able to play in 2016 in his mid 30s.

Havlicek - garbage :biggums: learn some basketball knowledge and have some respect ... and these comparisons of players in different eras are getting old ... yes yes of course the older era players did not have the athleticism of todays players, but the basketball IQ they had was elite and would put many of todays so called supertars to shame ... ...

[Round Mound]

1983-1993: The GOAT Era of Basketball

[IGOTGAME]

Frazier might have been on to something

[inclinerator]

https://media.giphy.com/media/bmujtlix2RKZG/giphy.gif

[jongib369]

:lol

[Hoopz2332]

interesting

[BigBoss]

Curry will because he works hard