The Prestige: Did the Machine work?

[Im Still Ballin]

Let's hear your thoughts

[Nick Young]

yes it made duplicates of people, it worked

[Patrick Chewing]

My feeling is that the machine didn't work, seeing as how the original idea was to have the person transported instead of cloned.

[Doomsday Dallas]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97255
07-25-2008, 11:44 PM




The Machine didn't work... that was the trick about the movie.

That machine never worked.

SO no, you are wrong, Science Fiction was not introduced... that's just what we want to believe.

And Angier/ Hugh Jackman was obssesed with convincing Bordon that he was a 'real' magician.

"You won't see it, because you want to be fooled."

[Im Still Ballin]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97255
07-25-2008, 11:44 PM
I tend to agree with this assessment. Magic just seems out of place, and its plausibility seems sketchy given that Borden led Angier to Tesla, but he himself used his twin brother as a stunt double, and actually believed in the Angier's magic illusion which led to the stunt double frame job under the stage.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Shutter Island... Very similar movie.


He was not crazy... They convinced him he was. Very sick $hit.

[ArbitraryWater]

That, and the just mentioned Shutter Island, are just :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Im Still Ballin]

Shutter Island... Very similar movie.


He was not crazy... They convinced him he was. Very sick $hit.
What evidence supports that?

I thought it was pretty conclusive he was a patient

[Doomsday Dallas]

What evidence supports that?

I thought it was pretty conclusive he was a patient


F*ck no... he stubbled upon a Nazi research center. Operation Paper Clip.

The USA was in a rush to scoop up all of the German intelligence after WWII...
all of their top secret scientists.



He was investigating the wrong MFers.... The whole movie is about him trying
not get completely Mind-Raped by them... and he almost does until he says the last
line at the end of the movie.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmmJsgfNSIM

See.... they didn't like him because he was an American Soldier.



All they had to do was flip Mark Ruffalo... Threaten him to play along.

They poisoned him through his cigarettes.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t6JfuaSW_4

This scene should be viewed as a Nazi soldier speaking to an American soldier.

Not as a Prison Guard speaking to an inmate.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBrChiLtEyc

In this scene... (starting at 2:00) Leo speaks to a woman that is not crazy. She was just convicted of a very violent crime. She murdered her husband with an axe... yes guilty. But her husband was beating her and f*cking other women constantly so she snapped one day. She had a bad moment in life. But still not criminally insane. So when Leo started asking questions about the doctor, she was trying to help him. She knew those doctors were evil.

[ArbitraryWater]

I think they let it open, although the evidence did lean in the way of Leo being one of the patients, and crazy.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WY5gDBR0gM
Shutter Island (3/8) Movie CLIP - What If They Wanted You Here? (2010) HD


This is the key scene.

the first 45 seconds.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sza0JPQms_w
MK-ULTRA in Shutter Island



he imagined the rats... not the woman.



I wont believe for a second that dicaprio was crazy. They drugged and brainwashed him


They clearly were. Nothing the doctors did was remotely therapeutic or helpful for Teddy. They were wiping his memory and reprogramming him with false ones

[Nick Young]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sza0JPQms_w
MK-ULTRA in Shutter Island



he imagined the rats... not the woman.
Sorry bro, Leo was just a crazy who killed his family.

Scorsese is not a conspiracy nut like you.

[Myth]

I didn't think there was any question: The machine worked.

[Myth]

Shutter Island... Very similar movie.


He was not crazy... They convinced him he was. Very sick $hit.
I don't think that was the point at all. The big theme at the end was him deciding he would rather get a lobotomy than remember the terrible things he did to his family. What you are proposing takes away from the power of the end.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I don't think that was the point at all. The big theme at the end was him deciding he would rather get a lobotomy than remember the terrible things he did to his family. What you are proposing takes away from the power of the end.


No... the hidden meaning is that Leo was like:

"F*ck you, your mind-control bull$hit didn't work, I know I'm not
leaving this island so go ahead and kill me."

"I'd rather die knowing I was good person... and not the monster you're
making me out to be. I could play along and save my own life, let you
guys win and survive another day... but I'm dying with honor"

The doctors failed... They couldn't implant false memories.
But Leo failed too because he didn't escape the island.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eveUzWmTxl4
Shutter Island (6/8) Movie CLIP - My Name is Edward Daniels (2010) HD

"if we fail with you... "

"we're on the front lines of a war...."

Ben Kingsley trying his hardest to show him images he's been hypnotized with.
Kids that weren't even his.




It's also been suggested that he was more susceptible to this form of mind control
or brainwashing because he went to war and suffered from PTSD. That's why the
woman in the cave asked if he suffered from any trauma.

[Patrick Chewing]

Dooms going crazy.

[Doomsday Dallas]

more here....

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/62/bbv4life/shutter-island-teddy-sane-proof-726990/



When Teddy talks about the monster and the hero, he's not talking about himself. He's telling Chuck that Chuck and the others on the island are monsters. This is why he has a brief look of disdain on his face as he stands up. Then, in a moment of unscripted emotion, Chuck calls Teddy "Teddy." He has no reason to call him Teddy if he truly isn't Teddy. If there even ever had been a role play, it was already over. There never was a role play. The explanation of role play is their attempt to induce insanity in Teddy. This is also why the try to tell him that his gun is a toy when the gun is actually Chuck's? They're tyring to make him question the most basic things about reality, knowing that, by doing so, they might get him so destabalized that their mind control experiment will work. When it fails, they're forced to get rid of him a la a prisoner at Auschwitz or Dachau. This isn't suprising, of course, since Shutter Island is staffed by expatriated Nazis. Teddy, from his war experience, new this. And that's why they ultimately lured him to the island to conduct a psychological experiment on him, and then had him murdered when it failed.

Like I said, Scorsese is an auter. The Holocaust flashbacks aren't incidental. They are crucial to the meaning of the film. The Nazi archetypes embodied by many of the staff are not incidental. The fact that the gateway is meant to look like Auschwitz is not incidental. The "obvious" film noir plot arc, a lone crazy man who eventually realizes his insanity, is just Scorese's skeletal structure to tell the real story he wants to. He's not making another Memento. He's not making another Psycho where the audience has to sit through an uncessary twenty minute explanation of what should have been obvious within the first fifteen minutes of the film. Sorry, he's not doing that. He's better than that. But it's in the subtext and most viewers lack the historical knowledge of WWII and Hollywood film history to see how Scorsese appropriating classical film noir motifs and then weaving them in an entirely new, creative way.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Did you @ssholes not learn anything form Quentin Tarantino?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSV35A1cQDM
Tarantino talks about 'Top Gun'.

Movies always have a deeper meaning... Top Gun was really about homosexuality.

You guys think this is a joke... but their is a huge amount of truth in this vid.
Movies do this all the time.




Subversion.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

It was the myth of technology cyberwarping the minds of viewers.

http://i.lv3.hbo.com/assets/images/series/the-wire/character/the-street/marlo-stanfield-300.jpg

We want it to be one way but it's the other way.

[nathanjizzle]

The movie shutter island is so good that it brainwashed doomsday into believing something that was not true through his own investigation.

[Doomsday Dallas]

The movie shutter island is so good that it brainwashed doomsday into believing something that was not true through his own investigation.


You guys can interpret the movie however you like... that's fine by me.

You guys see Leo playing a crazy man.

I see a bunch crazy Nazi scientists experimenting on Leo.
They attempted to perform an 'Inception' on him... and failed.

[nathanjizzle]

You guys can interpret the movie however you like... that's fine by me.

You guys see Leo playing a crazy man.

I see a bunch crazy Nazi scientists experimenting on Leo.
They attempted to perform an 'Inception' on him... and failed.

I dont disagree with you, i was just pointing out how the movie makes the viewer question their own interpretation of whats going on. It gives the audience the same mind**** that leo was getting.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Doomsday is literally insane

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmmJsgfNSIM
Shutter Island best scene


http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2010_Shutter_Island/tn300/010SHI_Max_von_Sydow_001.jpg



Again... I go back to the first video I posted in this thread.


Leo talking to the Head Villain in charge.


They got revenge on an American war hero.

[gigantes]

Near the end at the final confrontation, i thought you saw the many other chambers with the dead clones...

Havent seen it in a while, but this is what i remember
yeah, exactly. how do you explain all the dead clones floating in tanks if the machine is a fake?

how do you explain tesla being built up to be such a techno genius and then deliver something which was nothing but a fraud? that doesn't make sense in the context of the movie or the real life tesla.

i preferred the illusionist, tho. the story is more elegant, and it never implied that anything more than trickery was involved. the ghost-like illusions were definitely a stretch, but it was still implied that they were somehow faked.

[Zach LaVine]

yeah, exactly. how do you explain all the dead clones floating in tanks if the machine is a fake?

how do you explain tesla being built up to be such a techno genius and then deliver something which was nothing but a fraud? that doesn't make sense in the context of the movie or the real life tesla.

i preferred the illusionist, tho. the story is more elegant, and it never implied that anything more than trickery was involved. the ghost-like illusions were definitely a stretch, but it was still implied that they were somehow faked.
Not only the dead clones, but it shows him straight up shoot a clone as it created (or vise versa, can't remember which one had the gun). We also saw 100 hats or so from the machine. The machine 100% worked.

[Im Still Ballin]

Not only the dead clones, but it shows him straight up shoot a clone as it created (or vise versa, can't remember which one had the gun). We also saw 100 hats or so from the machine. The machine 100% worked.
That was Angier retelling it to Borden. It's just as plausible that he was misleading him just as Borden had with the Tesla angle.

[Zach LaVine]

That was Angier retelling it to Borden. It's just as plausible that he was misleading him just as Borden had with the Tesla angle.
They gave us no real reason to believe he was lying though.

[JohnnySic]

The thing I remember about this movie is that this numbnuts had a a machine that could clone people and the best use he could come up with was a stupid magic trick. You could conquer the world with a device like that.

[Im Still Ballin]

They gave us no real reason to believe he was lying though.
?

The whole movie was about a game of illusion and deception between two magicians

[Im Still Ballin]

As far as we know, Borden and Fallon are identical real twins. They were not clones. Had they been identical clones, they both would have fallen for the same woman.

Why on Earth would Borden give Angier Tesla, despite he not using the device for himself. It's illogical that the machine worked, given that later on when Angier was supposedly performing the disappearing man act with the Tesla machine, that Borden would actually believe for even a second, that the trick were to infarct be real. Why would he be so curious as to sneak backstage, if he himself knew that Tesla was a fraud? The answer is, he didn't know.

He led Angier on a worldwide goose chase, to a man that played a trick on Angier, to get his money from him. Angier realized he had been conned, but proceeded to run with the act that the machine in fact did work. He reunited with his stunt double the drunk, and he began to perform the act once more. During the last disappearing man performance, his stunt double was the pledge, and HE was the prestige. His stunt double drowned, which was part of his plan to get one up over his adversary.

[Im Still Ballin]

Plus, there is only 1 body in the tanks at the end

[Zach LaVine]

?

The whole movie was about a game of illusion and deception between two magicians
Yeah, but they showed the audience the reveals throughout the movie. :confusedshrug:

[gigantes]

?

The whole movie was about a game of illusion and deception between two magicians
if that's the case, then almost every movie is to be believed, somehow.

for every plot loophole, there's a counter-explanation for it.

right.

[Im Still Ballin]

Yeah, but they showed the audience the reveals throughout the movie. :confusedshrug:
What reveals exactly?

Borden was said to use actual magic via a Tesla machine... It turned out he had a twin brother whom performed as a body double

The Tesla machine was never shown to have worked

Angier was conned by Tesla for his large sum of money. You never see the machine work, you simply see a pile of black top hats and a few black cats

A black hat by the way, which Tesla's right hand man had the same style of

[Im Still Ballin]

if that's the case, then almost every movie is to be believed, somehow.

for every plot loophole, there's a counter-explanation for it.

right.
How do you come to this broad stroke conclusion? These key themes in this movie. Magic tricks, illusions, the act... The three parts. Deception. I am not basing this on anything other than what this movie clearly was about. We are talking about two magicians for goodness sake. What else would it have been about?

[Im Still Ballin]

It doesn't make sense that the machine works. Too many illogical inconsistencies. It is much more logical given it doesn't work

[Zach LaVine]

^ You are on some Doomsday level interpretations of that movie. You can't be helped :lol

[Im Still Ballin]

^ You are on some Doomsday level interpretations of that movie. You can't be helped :lol
It's clear you haven't watched the movie in awhile

I've watched it very recently

You can't be definitive either way. It makes as much sense that a movie about magic tricks turning into a sci fi, than it does staying true to the devious and scheming nature of magicians.

[gigantes]

It doesn't make sense that the machine works. Too many illogical inconsistencies. It is much more logical given it doesn't work
uh... it's a movie.

we know the machine doesn't work in our world, but it's clear that it works in the movie.

anyway, good luck with all that.

[Im Still Ballin]

You're a new poster on the block. I get it kid. We've all been there.

So young, so naive. Only fresh from the depths of the uterus. The bright shining lights exiting the darkness. Thrust thee upon thy world. Severed at the umbilical. Here your story begins,

Hit the ropes. Do some laps. Hit the showers. You've got a long way to come kid.

[Im Still Ballin]

uh... it's a movie.

we know the machine doesn't work in our world, but it's clear that it works in the movie.

anyway, good luck with all that.
You cannot prove it. You want the magic to be real. Like a fickle member of the crowd. But deep down... You don't want to really know how it works. The secret. You want to be fooled. The greatest trick of them all.