Revisiting 2011 NBA Draft - Kyrie v. Klay

[1manfastbreak]

KYRIE IRVING - 1st overall selection

http://i64.tinypic.com/wc1yfq.jpg

vs.

KLAY THOMPSON - 11th overall selection

http://i66.tinypic.com/15x1xn7.png

Irving's game is flashy and he has the ability to take over a game at a moments notice. But he needs the ball in his hands the majority of the time and is injury prone.

Thompson is steadily improving each season. He is the 2nd best 3pt shooter in the league and one of the better wing defenders as well.

Kyrie had two 55+ point games last season. Klay Thompson put up 37 in a quarter (and has a championship ring).

What if Kyrie was on the Bulls or Knicks? Would he be averaging over 28 ppg? What if the Dubs dealt Thompson to the TWolves?

Who would you rather have on your team?

[kshutts1]

Irving would make this Bulls teams a legit title threat.

I'd take Klay as a second fiddle, though, before I took Irving as a first option, but I'd never want Klay as my first option. It doesn't seem to be his game.

[Fallen Angel]

2011 Draft: Kyrie
Currently: Klay
Their career as a fit as a number one option: Kyrie
Currently if your team doesn't have an alpha dog: Kyrie

[1manfastbreak]

I agree Klay isn't really first option material. That is all Irving. I don't feel like LBJ and Irving make each other better unlike Thompson and Curry.

But is there a better second option player in the league than Klay Thompson??

Doesn't need the spot light. Deadly catch/shoot and off the dribble shooter. Very good defender. And he's pretty damn clutch.

[kshutts1]

I agree Klay isn't really first option material. That is all Irving. I don't feel like LBJ and Irving make each other better unlike Thompson and Curry.

But is there a better second option player in the league than Klay Thompson??

Doesn't need the spot light. Deadly catch/shoot and off the dribble shooter. Very good defender. And he's pretty damn clutch.
Without trolling, I say Lebron James. He just won't admit that he's best as a second option on cracksteriodsprehistoricooze.

Edit to kinda defend myself:
I think Lebron is the most talented player in the game today, and maybe (big if) ever. He can do literally EVERYTHING on the court at a great level. Not even good. Great. I guess you could harp on his deep midrange shooting? But anyway, I digress slightly....

So he does everything at a great level. Scoring is easy for him, but he wants to be the guy that passes and defends. But GMs, and other players, and fans, just see this uber-freak and think that since he is one of the best scorers ever, that he must be the go-to guy. And whether that collective thinking got to James' head, and he now believes that too, or if he's just continually miscast, I'm not sure.

But where, I believe, GMs and players are wrong is that... yes, James is one of the best scorers of all time. But his real strength lies in his ability to do ANYTHING you need him to. IMO, you don't "tie" a person down like that by making him be a go-to scorer that also does other things. You pair him with another legit scorer (Durant? Kobe a few years ago?) and tell Kobe/Durant/Dirk/etc to "get theirs" and tell Lebron to do "everything else".

That's my belief of what his career should have been. And, you know what? It's freakin' ridiculous that I can think of Lebron as a top 12 (not trolling using that number) player of all time... which I do... but I think he was destined for/could have been more, if he was accepted/was cast as the "do everything else" guy. Because now.. we talk about how Lebron's one of the better defenders and passers FOR AN ELITE SCORER. But we could have been talking about how he was the best passer and best defender EVER (or at least in the conversation with Magic, Cousy, Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, Bill) while also being an elite scorer.

[r15mohd]

Without trolling, I say Lebron James. He just won't admit that he's best as a second option on cracksteriodsprehistoricooze.

Edit to kinda defend myself:
I think Lebron is the most talented player in the game today, and maybe (big if) ever. He can do literally EVERYTHING on the court at a great level. Not even good. Great. I guess you could harp on his deep midrange shooting? But anyway, I digress slightly....

So he does everything at a great level. Scoring is easy for him, but he wants to be the guy that passes and defends. But GMs, and other players, and fans, just see this uber-freak and think that since he is one of the best scorers ever, that he must be the go-to guy. And whether that collective thinking got to James' head, and he now believes that too, or if he's just continually miscast, I'm not sure.

But where, I believe, GMs and players are wrong is that... yes, James is one of the best scorers of all time. But his real strength lies in his ability to do ANYTHING you need him to. IMO, you don't "tie" a person down like that by making him be a go-to scorer that also does other things. You pair him with another legit scorer (Durant? Kobe a few years ago?) and tell Kobe/Durant/Dirk/etc to "get theirs" and tell Lebron to do "everything else".

That's my belief of what his career should have been. And, you know what? It's freakin' ridiculous that I can think of Lebron as a top 12 (not trolling using that number) player of all time... which I do... but I think he was destined for/could have been more, if he was accepted/was cast as the "do everything else" guy. Because now.. we talk about how Lebron's one of the better defenders and passers FOR AN ELITE SCORER. But we could have been talking about how he was the best passer and best defender EVER (or at least in the conversation with Magic, Cousy, Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, Bill) while also being an elite scorer.


good points.

i personally don't think he had the right training/trainers around him to finish off his game as an elite scorer early on - it wasn't until late did he work with guys like Hakeem to polish his post some (still ugly but gets it done for the most part).

if he had this from the time he came into the league, he'd no doubt be more refined and not "witnessing" some horrible outside figures. albeit, I really don't know who advises him to shoot 3pt shots either - he's had so many 3pt specialists around him with the Cavs that it was more an afterthought in his pre-Miami day - however from Miami onwards he's been jacking it up and at the most inopportune times, it feels. sure he gets some in, but it's not the best shot - ever - fade away 3s?!? even 3pt arson's like Curry and Jesus barely throw those type of shots up, the only one I could say did that to a great degree is Reggie.

the all-around aspect was not what the Cavs had in store for him, and likely why it played out the way it did. :confusedshrug:

[ShawkFactory]

Without trolling, I say Lebron James. He just won't admit that he's best as a second option on cracksteriodsprehistoricooze.

Edit to kinda defend myself:
I think Lebron is the most talented player in the game today, and maybe (big if) ever. He can do literally EVERYTHING on the court at a great level. Not even good. Great. I guess you could harp on his deep midrange shooting? But anyway, I digress slightly....

So he does everything at a great level. Scoring is easy for him, but he wants to be the guy that passes and defends. But GMs, and other players, and fans, just see this uber-freak and think that since he is one of the best scorers ever, that he must be the go-to guy. And whether that collective thinking got to James' head, and he now believes that too, or if he's just continually miscast, I'm not sure.

But where, I believe, GMs and players are wrong is that... yes, James is one of the best scorers of all time. But his real strength lies in his ability to do ANYTHING you need him to. IMO, you don't "tie" a person down like that by making him be a go-to scorer that also does other things. You pair him with another legit scorer (Durant? Kobe a few years ago?) and tell Kobe/Durant/Dirk/etc to "get theirs" and tell Lebron to do "everything else".

That's my belief of what his career should have been. And, you know what? It's freakin' ridiculous that I can think of Lebron as a top 12 (not trolling using that number) player of all time... which I do... but I think he was destined for/could have been more, if he was accepted/was cast as the "do everything else" guy. Because now.. we talk about how Lebron's one of the better defenders and passers FOR AN ELITE SCORER. But we could have been talking about how he was the best passer and best defender EVER (or at least in the conversation with Magic, Cousy, Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, Bill) while also being an elite scorer.
I agree completely.

See: 2012 Olympics. KD and Melo did the heavy lifting throughout the tournament as scorers, but Lebron was did literally everything else and took over and scored when he needed to.

[1manfastbreak]

Will LeBron ever be able to accept the second fiddle role though?

I completely agree that he has the ability to be the best 2nd option player in the league, because he is an MVP candidate year in and year out.

But what makes finding a first option for LeBron difficult is that LBJ is a player who needs the ball in his hands to create. Which second option players dominate the ball over the best player on the team? The only instance that comes to mind is possibly Leonard on the Spurs because they work with such great ball movement, but even then he operates out of the low post a lot.

I think the only players in the NBA who could overtake LBJ as first option on their team are Kevin Durant and Steph Curry.

Steph Curry and LeBron on the same team would be unfair. The way Curry moves without the ball would give LBJ the ability to run the offense. Also, could you imagine a Curry-LeBron PnR? Talk about unstoppable.

The problem with a lot of these players is their ability to accept what is deemed as a "lesser" role. LeBron is the self proclaimed "greatest player on the planet" and I really can't see him accepting any role less than superstar on any team, unless it's the olympics of course. But Team USA is a whole other discussion because of the coaching staff.

[Ranked 12th]

Klay >>>>>>>> Kyrie


It's not close! :facepalm

[sd3035]

Although Irving was a much better player, I feel his game has taken a hit by playing with Lebald, it's definitely stunted his growth. Meanwhile Klay was your average good shooting role player, but Curry has allowed him to flourish :applause: :applause:

[Gone_Fishin]

I think this is one of those where neither team would trade for the other. For the situation Cleveland was in, Irving was the best pick. Same for GS. At that time and currently.

Although if Irving does want out of Cleveland and if the Warriors for some reason would trade Klay for him, I'm sure Cleveland would gladly take that on.

I do wonder if Irving could do what Lillard is doing right now. Or what Wall has been doing the best few seasons. He did have his chance at a team and say what you want about the talent that was around him (undoubtedly terrible), his team was still getting number one picks in a historically bad conference. There's a little more value in a top tier SG than a top tier PG right now.

[enayes]

I love how Curry has two great seasons and everyone starts talking about LeBron as a 2nd option type player :roll:

Just let the man play.

[zbott]

Kyrie still not at his ceiling ... what could be holding him back ??

[DOUBLE DRIBBLE]

Kyrie still not at his ceiling ... what could be holding him back ??
Injuries?

He's averaging about 16 missed games a season... It seems like there is always some nagging injury every year with him.

[1manfastbreak]

I think this is one of those where neither team would trade for the other. For the situation Cleveland was in, Irving was the best pick. Same for GS. At that time and currently.

Although if Irving does want out of Cleveland and if the Warriors for some reason would trade Klay for him, I'm sure Cleveland would gladly take that on.

I do wonder if Irving could do what Lillard is doing right now. Or what Wall has been doing the best few seasons. He did have his chance at a team and say what you want about the talent that was around him (undoubtedly terrible), his team was still getting number one picks in a historically bad conference. There's a little more value in a top tier SG than a top tier PG right now.

Not to mention how Cleveland completely burned a pick with Anthony Bennet.

[kshutts1]

Will LeBron ever be able to accept the second fiddle role though?

I completely agree that he has the ability to be the best 2nd option player in the league, because he is an MVP candidate year in and year out.

But what makes finding a first option for LeBron difficult is that LBJ is a player who needs the ball in his hands to create. Which second option players dominate the ball over the best player on the team? The only instance that comes to mind is possibly Leonard on the Spurs because they work with such great ball movement, but even then he operates out of the low post a lot.

I think the only players in the NBA who could overtake LBJ as first option on their team are Kevin Durant and Steph Curry.

Steph Curry and LeBron on the same team would be unfair. The way Curry moves without the ball would give LBJ the ability to run the offense. Also, could you imagine a Curry-LeBron PnR? Talk about unstoppable.

The problem with a lot of these players is their ability to accept what is deemed as a "lesser" role. LeBron is the self proclaimed "greatest player on the planet" and I really can't see him accepting any role less than superstar on any team, unless it's the olympics of course. But Team USA is a whole other discussion because of the coaching staff.
No, he'd never accept being the second fiddle.

And he IS the greatest player on the planet. That's what makes it so tough. I just think he's best served being the best "glue guy" of all time. He would not even be the MJ or glue guys, but rather the Rice of them, or the Gretzky of them, or someone else that's so much more dominant than MJ.

[1manfastbreak]

No, he'd never accept being the second fiddle.

And he IS the greatest player on the planet. That's what makes it so tough. I just think he's best served being the best "glue guy" of all time. He would not even be the MJ or glue guys, but rather the Rice of them, or the Gretzky of them, or someone else that's so much more dominant than MJ.

Calling LeBron a "glue guy" is just comical. You basically contradicted yourself. A glue guy makes the ultimate sacrifices that will ensure his team in in the best position to win, regardless of their ego.

Look at Andre Iguodala coming of the bench for the Warriors, that is a glue guy.

[kshutts1]

Calling LeBron a "glue guy" is just comical. You basically contradicted yourself. A glue guy makes the ultimate sacrifices that will ensure his team in in the best position to win, regardless of their ego.

Look at Andre Iguodala coming of the bench for the Warriors, that is a glue guy.
Fair point. Meant do-it-all guy.

[1manfastbreak]

He can definitely do it all.

I just think the problem with him and Kyrie is that they don't really make each other better. They are kind of just two really good players out there doing their thing.