What did Kobe have to do to be a top 5 player?

[Im Still Ballin]

Why did he fall short?

[Inferno]

Better efficiency and maybe 1 more ring

[navy]

Let's be real after Jordan and maybe Kareem you could rank most of the top 12ish players wherever you want to.

[JohnMax]

My top 5

Jordan
Kobe
Curry
Magic
Duncan

[IllegalD]

Top 5:

1) MJ
2) Kobe
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) Shaq

[SexSymbol]

He has as good of a case as any to be top5

[raprap]

Shoot better than 45% for his career

[aj1987]

He has as good of a case as any to be top5
:oldlol:

Nope.

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. BR
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Kobe
8. LeBron
9. Bird
10. Wilt

Before you butthurt nostalgic retards start, let me put this out there: IMO, LeBron has the accolades and the stats to be ranked over Bird.

EDIT: Oh, and my top 10 always keeps changing, depending on my mood. As I always say, there lists are highly subjective.

[SexSymbol]

:oldlol:

Nope.

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. BR
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Kobe
8. LeBron
9. Bird
10. Wilt

Before you butthurt nostalgic retards start, let me put this out there: IMO, LeBron has the accolades and the stats to be ranked over Bird.

EDIT: Oh, and my top 10 always keeps changing, depending on my mood. As I always say, there lists are highly subjective.

Kobe has a case over shaq, magic, duncan

[aj1987]

Kobe has a case over shaq, magic, duncan
Nope.

5/3/3 >> 5/2/1
5/3/2 >> 5/2/1

[Kawhi]

He has as good of a case as any to be top5
He really doesn't.

[JebronLames]

I got him at 12. No shame in that.

[SexSymbol]

Nope.

5/3/3 >> 5/2/1
5/3/2 >> 5/2/1
He has longevity over Magic
Titles over shaq
and head to head in the playoffs over duncan.
There's definitely arguments for anybody over anybody in that range.

[aj1987]

He has longevity over Magic
Titles over shaq
and head to head in the playoffs over duncan.
There's definitely arguments for anybody over anybody in that range.
That longevity doesn't really matter when Magic has a ton of accolades over Kobe. You mean Kobe AND Shaq beat Duncan's Spurs? :oldlol: Also, Kobe has never EVER done ANYTHING like what Duncan did in the '03 Finals. Duncan also has and FMVP and MVP over Kobe.

There's a reason why Shaq is called the MDE. Dude dominated the game like no other. 35/15/4 over 3 straight Finals and 30/15/3 over 3 straight PO runs. How many in the history of basketball have done shit like that?

Why are you taking it as a slight against Kobe though? Dude is arguably the 7th greatest player to ever touch a basketball. That's an amazing accomplishment.

[Gileraracer]

Loose 4 of his 6 finals appearances

[Kawhi]

:oldlol:

Nope.

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. BR
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Kobe
8. LeBron
9. Bird
10. Wilt

Before you butthurt nostalgic retards start, let me put this out there: IMO, LeBron has the accolades and the stats to be ranked over Bird.

EDIT: Oh, and my top 10 always keeps changing, depending on my mood. As I always say, there lists are highly subjective.
Agrees and disagrees on this list. Peak for peak, Bird is as good as anyone. In the '88 season he had averages of 30 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals AND a 50/40/90 efficiency. That is bizarre.

Not to mention, the things he did for the game of basketball. His rivalry with Magic was probably the biggest in all of sports. Before him the NBA was an afterthought and playoffs games were taped and broadcasted somewhere at 2 A.M. Hell, a lot of playoff games weren't even broadcasted at all. That changed as soon as Bird and Magic hit the floor. They saved the NBA. That is their legacy.

[SexSymbol]

That longevity doesn't really matter when Magic has a ton of accolades over Kobe. You mean Kobe AND Shaq beat Duncan's Spurs? :oldlol: Also, Kobe has never EVER done ANYTHING like what Duncan did in the '03 Finals. Duncan also has and FMVP and MVP over Kobe.

There's a reason why Shaq is called the MDE. Dude dominated the game like no other. 35/15/4 over 3 straight Finals and 30/15/3 over 3 straight PO runs. How many in the history of basketball have done shit like that?

Why are you taking it as a slight against Kobe though? Dude is arguably the 7th greatest player to ever touch a basketball. That's an amazing accomplishment.
c'mon now, are we really gonna pretend like regular season MVP holds any weight in these kinds of discussions?

And it's not like Kobe straight up dominated in those series wins against duncan's spurs, right?
He's arguably top 5.

and how can longevity don't mean anything lol? Kobe hold all the laker records, has been the second biggest star this game has ever seen for a good reason. Magic himself admitted Kobe was the greatest laker. Shaq too.

Kobe really can't touch russell, mj, kareem, after that it's a pretty equal game with anybody.

[aj1987]

Agrees and disagrees on this list. Peak for peak, Bird is as good as anyone. In the '88 season he had averages of 30 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals AND a 50/40/90 efficiency. That is bizarre.

Not to mention, the things he did for the game of basketball. His rivalry with Magic was probably the biggest in all of sports. Before him the NBA was an afterthought and playoffs games were taped and broadcasted somewhere at 2 A.M. Hell, a lot of playoff games weren't even broadcasted at all. That changed as soon as Bird and Magic hit the floor. They saved the NBA. That is their legacy.
The list isn't comparing peaks though. It's entire careers.


c'mon now, are we really gonna pretend like regular season MVP holds any weight in these kinds of discussions?
It doesn't? Well, probably because you're a Kobe stan.


And it's not like Kobe straight up dominated in those series wins against duncan's spurs, right?
He's arguably top 5.
According to your logic, LeBron straight up DOMINATED Kobe in their H2H's. Do you have LeBron over Kobe?



and how can longevity don't mean anything lol? Kobe hold all the laker records, has been the second biggest star this game has ever seen for a good reason. Magic himself admitted Kobe was the greatest laker. Shaq too.
I never said it doesn't mean anything. I was saying that it doesn't hold too much weight when the player with greater longevity has fewer accolades than the player with shorter longevity. In this case, Magic accomplished more than Kobe in a significantly shorter period of time. That's a testament to Magic's greatness.

You want to know how good Magic was? Dude came back after 6 years at 36 and averaged 15/6/7 in under 30 minutes a game.


Kobe really can't touch russell, mj, kareem, after that it's a pretty equal game with anybody.
Not really.

[Kobe_6/8]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/126/653/73753747_display_image.jpg

This was Kobe's "Big 3" during his prime. That's why he's not a top 5 player.

[Ranked 12th]

Be able to shoot outside 5 feet

[SpaceJam]

Be able to shoot outside 5 feet

Title says Kobe bro, OP isn't asking about LeBron

[pauk]

many more mvps... or fmvps...

What holds Kobe from being top 5 is the context, namely the context of his 3 first championship runs, even with 1 mvp later he wouldnt be a top 10 player, its just not prominent enough.... its those 2 championships / 2 fmvps / 2 the man/best player championship runs that boosted him up to the top 10...

If Kobe was THE MAN in his first 3 championship runs aswell he would have 3 more fmvps (5 total) and considering how good he would have to be to outdo prime Shaq that means many more MVPs aswell, probably 4 mvps..... and thats enough for top 5, actually top 2.... but that was not the case...

[Ranked 12th]

Title says Kobe bro, OP isn't asking about LeBron

I know

[dynasty1978]

1) Better shot selection. He's my favorite player besides Magic, but wish we would've just cut out the 1-2 head-scratching shots per game. It's the difference between a 45% shooter and 48%+ shooter.

2) Winning the 08 Finals. A 3 peat as option 1 would've sealed top 5 status.

[feyki]

If he had his 08-10 mental toughness in his prime , he would be as good as Bird,Magic,Duncan,Hakeem level .

[SexSymbol]

The list isn't comparing peaks though. It's entire careers.


It doesn't? Well, probably because you're a Kobe stan.


According to your logic, LeBron straight up DOMINATED Kobe in their H2H's. Do you have LeBron over Kobe?



I never said it doesn't mean anything. I was saying that it doesn't hold too much weight when the player with greater longevity has fewer accolades than the player with shorter longevity. In this case, Magic accomplished more than Kobe in a significantly shorter period of time. That's a testament to Magic's greatness.

You want to know how good Magic was? Dude came back after 6 years at 36 and averaged 15/6/7 in under 30 minutes a game.


Not really.
I said playoffs h2h, not regular season like you're saying with bron and kobe, but I wouldn't expect you to understand considering you're trying so hard to force a narrative here.

That's also a testament to Kareem's greatness, isn't it?

Am i Supposed to be impressed by the last sentence? If you even seen any of Magic's games from 96, you'd know how bad he was that year

[Nikola_]

should have done more in the past shaq and pre pau era

[aj1987]

I said playoffs h2h, not regular season like you're saying with bron and kobe, but I wouldn't expect you to understand considering you're trying so hard to force a narrative here.
:facepalm

Just because Kobe AND Shaq beat Duncan in one more series, Duncan's +1 FMVP and +1 MVP do not count? GTFOH.

When it comes to Magic, you bring up longevity and throw out all accolades. When it comes to Duncan, you want to ignore accolades and longevity and talk about H2H. Stop cherrypicking.


That's also a testament to Kareem's greatness, isn't it?
Sure. The same way Kobe owes his career to Shaq.

KAJ in the 1987 PO's - 19/7
KAJ in the 1988 PO's - 14/6



Am i Supposed to be impressed by the last sentence? If you even seen any of Magic's games from 96, you'd know how bad he was that year
Oh course, he's gonna be bad, idiot. Dude hadn't played basketball in almost 6 years and was 36 years old. The FACT that he was still able to average 15/6/7 is just amazing. What do you think he would've been doing, if he didn't test + for HIV?

Duncan, Shaq, and Magic > Kobe. Just learn to deal with it.

[InsanityKills]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/126/653/73753747_display_image.jpg

This was Kobe's "Big 3" during his prime. That's why he's not a top 5 player.
And that was also the reason he wanted out of LA on multiple occasions. Dude was a little bitch when he didn't get his way.

[sdot_thadon]

Well a few things, varying in importance:

Mvps, would have went a long way to making his dominance more clear cut.

Maybe managed to steal at least one fmvp from shaq during their run, it would legitimize his load during that time.

Not miss the playoffs in his prime.

Not have an even better generational player show up before he established his dominance over the league.

Had more signature moments of his own in the playoffs, not really many legendary games from bean.

Could have maybe not missed so many shots.

Probably the biggest detracting factor was that 3 of his rings came with one of the top 10 at his absolute best.

Even with all of that kobe's had a hell of a career fellas. The lower part of the top 10 isn't a bad place to be at all. And what other arguable top 10 player began his career on the bench and still made it to such status. That's bean's most unique claim in the big picture.

[SpaceJam]

And that was also the reason he wanted out of LA on multiple occasions. Dude was a little bitch when he didn't get his way.

Plenty of players would have wanted out if they had been handed a starting lineup composed of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Devean George

Surprised that team even made the playoffs to be honest

[Young X]

Play smarter and have more of a team player mentality.

I don't think he was always focused on getting the best shot possible for his team. Too many times he put himself over the rest of the team with his shot selection. Because of this he only had good but not great efficiency.

And I don't think he was as consistent on defense as he could have always been. He's too up and down, sometimes he played tough defense and other times especially later on he played lazy defense.

He never put everything together for a single season or a 3-4 year stretch. His best offensive years weren't his best defensive years. That's why it's so hard to say what was truly his best season. I think he was at his best in 2003 but I'm not sure.

The above along with not having a good team around him in his best offensive years are why I think why he didn't get more MVP's.

[Mass Debator]

Win those 5 rings without Shaq somehow...
Or just win another one post Shaq so 6 total.

[riseagainst]

he already is:


https://j.gifs.com/2k1ARz.gif
https://j.gifs.com/2k1ARz.gif
https://j.gifs.com/2k1ARz.gif
https://j.gifs.com/2k1ARz.gif
https://j.gifs.com/2k1ARz.gif

[Fudge]

Let's be honest here, is he even top 10? No trolling.

[ImKobe]

:oldlol:

Nope.

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. BR
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Kobe
8. LeBron
9. Bird
10. Wilt

Before you butthurt nostalgic retards start, let me put this out there: IMO, LeBron has the accolades and the stats to be ranked over Bird.

EDIT: Oh, and my top 10 always keeps changing, depending on my mood. As I always say, there lists are highly subjective.

so how is there no possible scenario for Kobe to be considered top 5 if the lists are highly subjective and changing? Kobe's career as a Laker trumps Magics when you look at the length of Kobe's career..


better peak numbers... you put up Kobe's best regular season vs Magic's and he comes out on top, Magic only has 4 seasons of 20+ ppg and his assist numbers aren't that impressive when you compare him to all-time PGs and how much talent he had on the rosters and the pace they played at, people undermine Kobe for having Shaq win the Finals MVPs during their 3-Peat but prime Magic had a 37 yr old Kareem win Finals MVP

[ImKobe]

Let's be honest here, is he even top 10? No trolling.

3rd all-time scoring
same amount of chips as Duncan, Magic
more than Shaq, Bird, Lebron, Wilt, Hakeem
all-star 18 out of 20 seasons in the league
best season by any player in their 17th year (some guys in the top 10 didn't even make it to 15)
same amount of MVPs as Shaq and Hakeem
first player to 30k pts 6k ast and 6k reb
highest scoring season since MJ in 87..
has the highest point total in a game available on footage
all the first-team NBA rewards

I don't see why not?

[IllegalD]

Well a few things, varying in importance:

Mvps, would have went a long way to making his dominance more clear cut.

Maybe managed to steal at least one fmvp from shaq during their run, it would legitimize his load during that time.

Not miss the playoffs in his prime.

Not have an even better generational player show up before he established his dominance over the league.

Had more signature moments of his own in the playoffs, not really many legendary games from bean.

Could have maybe not missed so many shots.

Probably the biggest detracting factor was that 3 of his rings came with one of the top 10 at his absolute best.

Even with all of that kobe's had a hell of a career fellas. The lower part of the top 10 isn't a bad place to be at all. And what other arguable top 10 player began his career on the bench and still made it to such status. That's bean's most unique claim in the big picture.

What a hypocrite you are.

So do you discredit Magic's career because he won ALL 5 of his rings with Kareem?

[stalkerforlife]

Be worse.

Because he's top 2 all time.

[Lebron23]

Needs to be rank higher than Number 12.

[Lebronxrings]

acording to PER hes 13th. According to expert rankings hes 12th.


He can start by winning a championship as the real leader.

[Lebronxrings]

Kobe has a case over shaq, magic, duncan


Top 5:

1) MJ
2) Kobe
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) Shaq

My top 5

Jordan
Kobe
Curry
Magic
Duncan


Be worse.

Because he's top 2 all time.

mods...

[Cold soul]

1) Better shot selection. He's my favorite player besides Magic, but wish we would've just cut out the 1-2 head-scratching shots per game. It's the difference between a 45% shooter and 48%+ shooter.

2) Winning the 08 Finals. A 3 peat as option 1 would've sealed top 5 status.


I agree with this. Kobe ego and shot selection at times hurt him.

[sammichoffate]

acording to PER hes 13th. According to expert rankings hes 12th.


He can start by winning a championship as the real leader.http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2009/images/06/18/kobemvp608.jpg