If Cavs don't choke vs Boston in 2010, Lakers/Cavs Finals. Who wins?

[IncarceratedBob]

Cavs were better than Boston that year, and should've won. Let's say we got the Kobe/LeBron finals matchup everyone wanted. Who wins?

[Ranked 12th]

LOL one guy dominated the other to the tune of 16-6 and OP is still wondering the outcome?? :lol

[nightprowler10]

How were Cavs a better team than Boston?

[Im Still Ballin]

:IT'S SIMPLE

WE KILL THE BATMAN

[IncarceratedBob]

LOL one guy dominated the other to the tune of 16-6 and OP is still wondering the outcome?? :lol
Can't compare regular season to playoffs, completely different game

[zeerghit]

lakers is still better, they cant guard peak kobe with parker, or peak gasol with big z or washed shaq.

[warriorfan]

http://sportsofboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/042910_James.jpg

[feyki]

They would choke , again .

[Genaro]

Who guards Kobe? He proved last night he can score at will on Lebron even with 90 years, now think about what he would do in his prime surrounded by better teammates.

Besides, Lebron record in the finals speak for it self.

[Eye Test]

we alrady know kobes and bran finals record so :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Besides, Lebron record in the finals speak for it self.

we alrady know kobes and bran finals record so :lol

Yep, keep crediting Kobe with those first 3 Finals wins when Shaq was putting up 35/15 every Finals and was the consensus FMVP every single time

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe would've embarrassed Bran on the biggest stage and that's why Bran quit.

[Nilocon165]

:IT'S SIMPLE

WE KILL THE BATMAN
If it's so easy, why haven't you done it yet?

[HOoopCityJones]

Yep, keep crediting Kobe with those first 3 Finals wins when Shaq was putting up 35/15 every Finals and was the consensus FMVP every single time

They both should get credit. Kobe was the greatest sidekick of all time if that's not the case and Shaq has never reached higher peaks playing next to any other player. Especially in 2000.

But either way, if statistical dominance is the true measure of one's greatness let's not forget what Kobe was doing in the West Conference playoffs against much tougher competition.

2000 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 22.8 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 4.4 APG, .464 FG%
Shaq - 28.2 PPG, 15.0 RPG, 3.4 APG, .546 FG%

2001 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

[stalkerforlife]

They both should get credit. Kobe was the greatest sidekick of all time if that's not the case and Shaq has never reached higher peaks playing next to any other player. Especially in 2000.

But either way, if statistical dominance is the true measure of one's greatness let's not forget what Kobe was doing in the West Conference playoffs against much tougher competition.

2000 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 22.8 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 4.4 APG, .464 FG%
Shaq - 28.2 PPG, 15.0 RPG, 3.4 APG, .546 FG%

2001 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

SouthBeachBranStan never learns.

Thanks for handling trolls like that, dude. :applause:

[Dr Hawk]

Bran in Playoffs vs Kobe:

http://www.modernhomoeopathy.com/images/consciouschokingadultstep1_L.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

seriously though, who's guarding Kobe

Kobe was better than Lebron when they guard each other during this time fram

from 2010


And here are the numbers: Kobe has scored 20 points (free throws included) on 27 isolation plays when guarded on-ball by LeBron, while LeBron has scored seven points on 13 isolation plays when guarded by Kobe. Finally, on a points-per-play basis, Kobe is ahead .74 to .54.

and look at the numbers that Rondo and Rose put up against the Cavs in the 2010 playoffs, 21/11 for Rondo, 27/7 for Rose.

Cavs would have lost, the Lakers beat the team that beat the Cavs after the Cavs went up 2-1 as heavy favorites so all signs point to the Lakers winning

[SouBeachTalents]

They both should get credit. Kobe was the greatest sidekick of all time if that's not the case and Shaq has never reached higher peaks playing next to any other player. Especially in 2000.

But either way, if statistical dominance is the true measure of one's greatness let's not forget what Kobe was doing in the West Conference playoffs against much tougher competition.

2000 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 22.8 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 4.4 APG, .464 FG%
Shaq - 28.2 PPG, 15.0 RPG, 3.4 APG, .546 FG%

2001 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

I agree, Kobe was the GOAT second option in '01 & '02, and imo he was just as good as, even arguably better than Shaq during their undefeated western conference run in '01. But we're strictly talking about the Finals here, and in a head to head comparison you can't give full credit to Kobe for being 5-2 in the Finals when Shaq was significantly better than him in 3 of those Finals wins.

[Bankaii]

Why are you posting playoffs numbers in a Finals thread?

Lebron is pretty clearly better in the Finals.
Just like Shaq was pretty clearly carrying the Lakers in the Finals.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe puts up 27/6/6 in the finals = doesn't count

Lebron puts up 25/10/7 in the finals = GOAT

:roll:

Kobe leads his team in assist in the finals, leads them in scoring for b2b games, finishes off the series with a near triple double = doesn't count

:roll:

[pastis]

how can you talk about "choke" when Boston was way better on any position except the SF-Position?

[Hey Yo]

Why are you posting playoffs numbers in a Finals thread?

Lebron is pretty clearly better in the Finals.
Just like Shaq was pretty clearly carrying the Lakers in the Finals.
Cause that's all they have to fall back on.

They boast all the time about how shitty the East is but yet can't explain why Kobe played so shitty against those East teams in the Finals.

They should be thanking Shaq every day.

[TheMarkMadsen]

how can you talk about "choke" when Boston was way better on any position except the SF-Position?


Cavs were heavy favorites and were up 2-1 in the series

[pastis]

Kobe puts up 27/6/6 in the finals = doesn't count

Lebron puts up 25/10/7 in the finals = GOAT

:roll:

Kobe leads his team in assist in the finals, leads them in scoring for b2b games, finishes off the series with a near triple double = doesn't count

:roll:

who says that kobe doesnt count? everyone with bball knowledge knows that kobe was an important piece.
but everyone knows as well, that lebron had horrbile teams from 2003-2010 if you compare them to "real" contenders at that time like lakers, spurs, boston....

[TheMarkMadsen]

Cause that's all they have to fall back on.

They boast all the time about how shitty the East is but yet can't explain why Kobe played so shitty against those East teams in the Finals.

They should be thanking Shaq every day.


Shaq made 2 finals without Kobe

Kobe made 3 finals without Shaq

hmmmmmmm... wonder why people bring up the path to the finals... hmmmmmm

and if you consider 25/8/6 and 27/6/6 to be "shitty finals" then you should probably stop posting.. well you should just do that anyways..

[pastis]

Cavs were heavy favorites and were up 2-1 in the series

so they were favorites?

a team consisting of james, 38 year old o'neal, mo williams, antawn jamision, delonte west and ilgaukas against Garnett/Rondo/Pierce/Allen/T. Allen/Rasheed Wallace?

if so, they were favorites because of lebron alone

[TheMarkMadsen]

who says that kobe doesnt count? everyone with bball knowledge knows that kobe was an important piece.
but everyone knows at well, that lebron had horrbile teams from 2003-2010 if you compare them to "real" contenders at that time like lakers, spurs, boston....


who says that kobe doesnt count?

every kobe hater ever.


that lebron had horrbile teams from 2003-2010

you can not call b2b 60+ win teams (cavs in 09 and 10) horrible.

and nobody was really sweating the spurs in 09 and 10, they showed in 08 that they had no chance of beating those Lakers. They needed the emergence of Kawhi and some other players before they were taken seriously again.

in 09 and 10 the expected finals every year was Lakers vs Cavs, Nike even built and entire marketing campaign around that fact

[pastis]

every kobe hater ever.



you can not call b2b 60+ win teams (cavs in 09 and 10) horrible.

and nobody was really sweating the spurs in 09 and 10, they showed in 08 that they had no chance of beating those Lakers. They needed the emergence of Kawhi and some other players before they were taken seriously again.

in 09 and 10 the expected finals every year was Lakers vs Cavs, Nike even built and entire marketing campaign around that fact

do you really think that lebron would have went to the finals in 2007 if he would have played in the west? or reaching the WCF in 2010? NO!
lebron james teams were weak in comparison to real contenders at that time and they overperformed due to lebron james and being in the east for the playoffs

[TheMarkMadsen]

so they were favorites?

a team consisting of james, 38 year old o'neal, mo williams, antawn jamision, delonte west and ilgaukas against Garnett/Rondo/Pierce/Allen/T. Allen/Rasheed Wallace?

if so, they were favorites because of lebron alone

they were favored because they had won 60+ games for the second year in a row and look poised for a long playoff run. They had Mo who was coming off an all star season, they had Shaq who was coming off an all star season and could still produce (his stats against Boston look eerily similar to his 06 finals stats)

they had just fleeced the league with that bullshit Jaminson/Big Z trade which eventually led the NBA to change the rule on how those type of trades could be executed.

they were the consensus favorites, they went up 2-1 and then lost the next 3 games.. that is the definition of a choke.

[Papaya Petee]

Kobe puts up 27/6/6 in the finals = doesn't count

Lebron puts up 25/10/7 in the finals = GOAT

:roll:

Kobe leads his team in assist in the finals, leads them in scoring for b2b games, finishes off the series with a near triple double = doesn't count

:roll:

1.) Nobody said Kobe's doesnt count and LeBron is GOAT, but lets put some more things into perspective here.

- 2013 Spurs >>>>>>>> 2001 76ers
- LeBron was the best player on his team, while Kobe was clearly the 2nd option for his.
- LeBron started off the series slow, and ended up having a 35 point game 6 and a 37\12\3 game 7, including the dagger jumpshot with under a minute left.
- LeBron was FMVP, Kobe wasn't
- 25\10\7 > 27\6\6

[Hey Yo]

Kobe puts up 27/6/6 in the finals = doesn't count

Lebron puts up 25/10/7 in the finals = GOAT

:roll:

Kobe leads his team in assist in the finals, leads them in scoring for b2b games, finishes off the series with a near triple double = doesn't count

:roll:
But Kobe did it against the shitty, pathetic Eastern rep, no?

LeBron did it against the dominant, brutal Western rep, correct?

[Hey Yo]

Shaq made 2 finals without Kobe

Kobe made 3 finals without Shaq

hmmmmmmm... wonder why people bring up the path to the finals... hmmmmmm

and if you consider 25/8/6 and 27/6/6 to be "shitty finals" then you should probably stop posting.. well you should just do that anyways..
The path to the Finals is only brought up by Kobe stans when referring to Lakers 3-peat.....never about the latter.

[TheMarkMadsen]

1.) Nobody said Kobe's doesnt count and LeBron is GOAT, but lets put some more things into perspective here.

- 2013 Spurs >>>>>>>> 2001 76ers
- LeBron was the best player on his team, while Kobe was clearly the 2nd option for his.
- LeBron started off the series slow, and ended up having a 35 point game 6 and a 37\12\3 game 7, including the dagger jumpshot with under a minute left.
- LeBron was FMVP, Kobe wasn't
- 25\10\7 > 27\6\6



"Lebron starting off slow" in the 13 finals is a nice way of saying that he didn't have a 20pt game until game 4. He put up 16 ppg on 38% through the first 3 games.. He got bailed out in game 6 by Ray after Lebron had two turnovers in the final minute and two missed 3's before that shot..

[TheMarkMadsen]

The path to the Finals is only brought up by Kobe stans when referring to Lakers 3-peat.....never about the latter.

gee I wonder why people bring up the path to the finals when talking about Shaq, a guy who was swept in conference finals of 96, lost in 5 in the WCSF in 97, swept in the WCF of 98 and swept in the WCF in 99


gee..wonder why people would bring up Kobe's great WCF's and WC playoff runs..

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq made 2 finals without Kobe

Kobe made 3 finals without Shaq

hmmmmmmm... wonder why people bring up the path to the finals... hmmmmmm

and if you consider 25/8/6 and 27/6/6 to be "shitty finals" then you should probably stop posting.. well you should just do that anyways..

Kobe was atrocious in Game 1 in '01, but he played well the rest of the Finals. His play did drop off from the first 3 rounds though. And Kobe played very well in the '02 Finals. So this isn't even about Kobe playing well or playing poorly, it's the fact that Shaq was playing at a GOAT level, and was significantly better than Kobe during every Finals of the 3peat

'01 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5 on 57%
Kobe: 25/8/6 on 42%

'02 Finals
Shaq: 36/12/4 on 60%
Kobe: 27/6/5 on 51%

[Hey Yo]

gee I wonder why people bring up the path to the finals when talking about Shaq, a guy who was swept in conference finals of 96, lost in 5 in the WCSF in 97, swept in the WCF of 98 and swept in the WCF in 99


gee..wonder why people would bring up Kobe's great WCF's and WC playoff runs..
:oldlol: ....riiiiight

They get brought up because Kobe played worse in the Finals those years against the so-called shitty East. Trying to deflect the facts.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:oldlol: ....riiiiight

They get brought up because Kobe played worse in the Finals those years against the so-called shitty East. Trying to deflect the facts.

Why do you completely ignore the facts that Shaq was getting swept from the playoffs for 4 straight years before Kobe became elite?

Why do you act like this isn't important? Do you think teams just wake up one day and start playing in the finals?

Shaq was never able to make the finals consistently without Kobe, he was constantly swept out of the playoffs before Kobe.. Kobe was able to string together 3 straight finals without Disel


They get brought up because idiots like you try to find every single reason in the book to discredit Kobe, even though he led his team in scoring and assist for the first 3 rounds of the playoffs in b2b years with Shaq which is incredibly impressive for a 21 year old playing leading his team in major statistical categories when he has a ATG on his team..

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe was atrocious in Game 1 in '01, but he played well the rest of the Finals. His play did drop off from the first 3 rounds though. And Kobe played very well in the '02 Finals. So this isn't even about Kobe playing well or playing poorly, it's the fact that Shaq was playing at a GOAT level, and was significantly better than Kobe during every Finals of the 3peat

'01 Finals
Shaq: 33/16/5 on 57%
Kobe: 25/8/6 on 42%

'02 Finals
Shaq: 36/12/4 on 60%
Kobe: 27/6/5 on 51%

and just because he had a teammate playing better than he was doesn't make his finals any less impressive. on 99% of all teams ever in the finals those numbers from Kobe would be the best on the team. Do we discredit Bird for having finals where his teammates put up better numbers than him. Do we discredit Duncan, Magic and Kareem for the same thing?

[Lebronxrings]

lebron is 16-6 versus kobe

lebron 73% of the time, beats kobe

In a 7 game series therefore lebron wins in 5-6 games.

Too bad kobe choked versus dallas in 2011 or we could have seen lebron destroy his whipping boy. :(