Emmanuel Mudiay in march!

[kurple]

20pts, 4rpg, 6apg, 1stl, 1blk.. Shooting 46% from the field

7 games, 5-2 record. Without Jameer, Danilo and Wilson

[HOoopCityJones]

Still ain't better than Russell

[IllegalD]

20pts, 4rpg, 6apg, 1stl, 1blk.. Shooting 46% from the field

7 games, 5-2 record. Without Jameer, Danilo and Wilson


D'Angelo > Mudaiy when all is said and done.

[livingby3's]

This draft class.

[Nash]

20pts, 4rpg, 6apg, 1stl, 1blk.. Shooting 46% from the field

7 games, 5-2 record. Without Jameer, Danilo and Wilson
+1.2m richer in chinese money than all these college rookies.:applause:

[IcanzIIravor]

Still ain't better than Russell

I think we can appreciate both young players.

[TiagoSimoes]

I think we can appreciate both young players.

not lakers fans, because most of them are insecure as fk

[IcanzIIravor]

not lakers fans, because most of them are insecure as fk

Ha! I'm a Lakers fan. I want this next generation to be great, so I am rooting for all of these rookies to keep hungry and keep working hard.

[kurple]

not lakers fans, because most of them are insecure as fk
this. i actually like Russell too, been a fan of his since he was mocked as a 2nd round pick on DX. Bet these Lakers fans hadnt even heard of him before last april

[qrich]

Still ain't better than Russell

21 - 2 - 4 - 1Stl/2 TO on 44/42/77 is better?


Dude's balling, but I wouldn't say he's been better. Just enjoy him and stop being an insecure ****.

[kurple]

D'Angelo > Mudaiy when all is said and done.
better at what? 3pt shooting or basketball`?

[IllegalD]

this. i actually like Russell too, been a fan of his since he was mocked as a 2nd round pick on DX. Bet these Lakers fans hadnt even heard of him before last april


Meanwhile you were the first to start a thread when Lakers played the Nuggets to try to prove that Mudiay had "outplayed" Russell.

Shut the f*ck up, you Mile-High stoner.

[kurple]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dMA8wGjmOg

[kurple]

Meanwhile you were the first to start a thread when Lakers played the Nuggets to try to prove that Mudiay had "outplayed" Russell.

Shut the f*ck up, you Mile-High stoner.
did he not outplay russell?

basketball is about winnning

[MellowYellow]

yet he's still shooting 36% on the season :facepalm

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Mudiay is a stud, Russell is looking pretty good too lately.

Don't see why this is becoming a pissing contest.

[raprap]

This draft class is going to end up better than expected. :applause:

[IllegalD]

did he not outplay russell?

basketball is about winnning

Aren't you Mr. "I'm rooting for both of them".

Yet the first thing you did was make it about that.

reeks of the same insecurity you're accusing Laker fans of.

[IllegalD]

Mudiay is a stud, Russell is looking pretty good too lately.

Don't see why this is becoming a pissing contest.


Didn't the same thing happen with CP3 vs Deron...? :confusedshrug:

[references]

this draft is so much better than 2014

[Ai2death]

Didn't the same thing happen with CP3 vs Deron...? :confusedshrug:

What are you saying? Russel is going to be better than Mudiay for 1/2 seasons and then fall off so hard you forget he's even in the NBA?

If that's the comparison, i'll take that!

[Ai2death]

This draft class is going to end up better than expected. :applause:

Hope so :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SwishSquared]

+1.2m richer in chinese money than all these college rookies.:applause:Plus UA gave him deal too right out of school:pimp:

Mudiay has really turned it around recently. A good example of why you should give your young guys consistent reps to let them figure things out.

[Nick Young]

Emmanuel Mudiay AKA Russell-lite :lol


Nuggets have A LOT of talent at multiple positions. It's embarrassing how few games the Nugs have won under Mudiay's leadership XD

[RRR3]

I don't watch the Nuggets, so I can't speak on Mudiay, but his stats are so horrendously bad I highly doubt the "eye test" somehow makes him good.


I know hes a rookie and I'm sure he has tons of potential and has shown many good things that indicate he'll be a good player. Right now, though, he's terrible.


12.3/3.3/5.8 on .360/.304/.649 with 3.4 turnovers per game.

If you place any value on PER or WS....His PER is below 10 and his win shares are in the negatives.

If you use BPM or VORP, he is downright hideous there as well.

To his credit he does have a positive on/off net rating, which is something.


He might be good at defense, haven't watched him, but there's no way you can tell me he isn't dogshit at offense. Currently.

[Kblaze8855]

Bad numbers and being a bad player arent the same thing. Jason Kidd would shoot 33-35% for months at a time. He shot between 33 and 35% for 3 months of his rookie season. Hell he shot 35% for half the season some of his all star years. He had times shooting 35% for 3 months of a season he also averaged 4 turnovers a game. He had PER seasons of 15, 16, 14, and 13.5 where he was still making his team better. And he wasnt a fresh from Hs/china rookie. He was an established player. He helped his team win the title in a season his PER was 14.4. Him leaving the Knicks with his 13 per pretty much destroyed them according to some around the team. Im not confident enough in those numbers to call a guy terrible when hes helping his team stay in games their talent suggests they shouldnt.

I need to watch him more often. He was pretty good the couple times I did.

[RRR3]

Kidd did not have bad numbers, though and his advanced stats were usually quite good IIRC. Mudiay stats are horrible compared to Kidd's. PER isn't the best stat anyways, it doesn't analyze low volume scorers fairly a lot IMO. But Kidd had a career PER of 17.9 for what it's worth and was between 18.4 and 22.5 every year from 1999 to 2007. He graded well in BPM and VORP (actually led the NBA in VORP one year). These stats are new and I'm not sure how much I trust them, but Kidd's stats annihilate Mudiays.

[kurple]

You should watch the Nuggets more often. His D, leadership and vision is elite


Scoring will never be his strong suit, but how many 19yo starting PG's have not struggled and shot below 40%?

[kurple]

PER ain't everything

If that's the case then Jokic is better than Porzingis and almost as good as KAT

[Pointguard]

PER ain't everything

If that's the case then Jokic is better than Porzingis and almost as good as KAT

Its really sad that people are now evaluating rookies by stats as a major indicator. Its like seeing Magic his first year when he wasn't playing PG, his shot was weird, couldn't tell what position he was going to play. Stats didn't measure his incredible intelligence, superior judgment, precise clutch play, ability to make something out of nothing or leadership. The greatest oversight would be what was his PER. Its silliness.

Mudiay, is great to watch because you can see his judgment is getting better as the year moves on. How he can see which players like the ball in what spots, his leadership and how he makes things happen. How he decides on how to lure a defender away from a player for an easier play that takes a minute to develop.

[chocolatethunder]

I'm not sure why everyone gets caught up in this guy is better than that guy and all this bullshit. I wanna see good basketball and I hope that Russell and Mudiay both end up being good players. They both have the potential to be really good. While Mudiay doesn't really have the potential to be as good a shooter as Russell can be, he has tremendous potential defensively which Russell lacks. They can both be really good in different ways.

It's nice to see Mudiay playing well. I wanted him over Okafor and would still do that all day every day. The thing with Mudiay is that of course he's really raw. He can't shoot well and is careless with the ball but you hope that those are things that he can improve with time. When players are this young and raw it's easy to get caught up in slagging them or focusing on all the things they do poorly instead of the few things they are doing right. The game is way too fast for almost all rookies especially the youngest ones. It's also too physical for them. Mudiay has a good build and a ton of potential. It's quite possible that he will never reach that potential and just be a guy who shows you flashes and teases you. However, if he does reach that potential he will be a real handful. I have no idea if he will but I hope that he does.

[NugzFan]

"Mudiay is pretty good"

"But what about Russell?!"

God I love how insecure laker fans are. They have so little present and future they they are desperate for anything they can get.

[NugzFan]

did he not outplay russell?

basketball is about winnning

Come on that's not fair. Laker fans don't know anything about that.

[Dr Seuss]

Come on that's not fair. Laker fans don't know anything about that.

oh mighty nuggzfan, can you explain to me, a lowly, stupid lakers fan, about winning. your insight is greatly appreciated!

[NugzFan]

Emmanuel Mudiay AKA Russell-lite :lol


Nuggets have A LOT of talent at multiple positions. It's embarrassing how few games the Nugs have won under Mudiay's leadership XD

:oldlol: you really don't want to go there.

[NugzFan]

oh mighty nuggzfan, can you explain to me, a lowly, stupid lakers fan, about winning. your insight is greatly appreciated!

Go to the NBA standings page and start scrolling

Keep going...

Almost there...

[AirTupac]

You know Nug fans are reaching when they start using wins (in two non playoff teams) to try and make an argument of why one rookie is better than the other. I personally like using stats, percentages, turnovers, PER etc. All which Mudiay is bad with.

[RRR3]

You know Nug fans are reaching when they start using wins (in two non playoff teams) to try and make an argument of why one rookie is better than the other. I personally like using stats, percentages, turnovers, PER etc. All which Mudiay is bad with.
Seriously. I'm not saying Mudiay doesn't have potential or that he hasn't shown things that indicate he will be a great player. For all I know he might be a really good defender. But he is factually horrible on offense, no way around that. Yeah he's a rookie, and he will get better and may become a stud one day. But he's not a stud now and some people act like he is

[Dr Seuss]

Go to the NBA standings page and start scrolling

Keep going...

Almost there...


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

thats my bad. i didnt realize youre a step ladders height above us.

fck me. the future is way too bright in mile high city

and fck me even more for not realizing that 28 reg season games constitutes as winning to you. im sooooo retarded :(

[AirTupac]

Seriously. I'm not saying Mudiay doesn't have potential or that he hasn't shown things that indicate he will be a great player. For all I know he might be a really good defender. But he is factually horrible on offense, no way around that. Yeah he's a rookie, and he will get better and may become a stud one day. But he's not a stud now and some people act like he is

Just these few bonehead Nugget fans. That pot isn't helping them :lol

[RRR3]

Pot is the shit.

I did compare Goran Dragic to a banana peel when high :lol

Though I think he deserved it

[IllegalD]

"Mudiay is pretty good"

"But what about Russell?!"

God I love how insecure laker fans are. They have so little present and future they they are desperate for anything they can get.


Another delusional f*ggot Denver stoner.

What "future' besides Mudiay do the Nuggets have?

[kurple]

Jokic > any rookie not named Karl Anthony Towns

[NugzFan]

Love how butt hurt laker fans get. and for fans of a team that only has 20 wins, they sure love to talk shit, even if it's the same thing over and over.

(Oh not even 20?? My bad)

[FreezingTsmoove]

Seriously. I'm not saying Mudiay doesn't have potential or that he hasn't shown things that indicate he will be a great player. For all I know he might be a really good defender. But he is factually horrible on offense, no way around that. Yeah he's a rookie, and he will get better and may become a stud one day. But he's not a stud now and some people act like he is

Really? Youre really going to say shit like this when you just said you have never watched Mudiay play

[SwishSquared]

Jokic > any rookie not named Karl Anthony TownsHe's been extremely impressive offensively but I'm wondering if he has the physical tools to be an above average C defensively. He has everything you want offensively basically, though. Super fun to watch too! Denver has a few interesting young guys. They just need another franchise building block and they'll be on their way.

[NuggetsFan]

He's been extremely impressive offensively but I'm wondering if he has the physical tools to be an above average C defensively. He has everything you want offensively basically, though. Super fun to watch too! Denver has a few interesting young guys. They just need another franchise building block and they'll be on their way.

He overcomes his physical limitations with basketball IQ. Know's how to position himself around the basket, boxout, and where to be defensively. He still has lapses and because of the lack of physical tools gets himself caught and usually leads to a bad foul. That along with his quick hands should at the very least make him serviceable defensively. 1.7 stl/1.1 blks per 36 if that means anything. He is 6'11 with a 7'3 winspan and bulky. Just zero vertical, and doesn't have quick feet.

Amazing passer/creater for a big man. Can shoot the ball, work inside. He turned 21 a month ago and as a rookie flashing some serious skill. Just didn't get the consistent minutes to really blow up. I think by this time next year he'll be on everyone's radar.

Easily would take him over Mudiay going forward.

[NuggetsFan]

Seriously. I'm not saying Mudiay doesn't have potential or that he hasn't shown things that indicate he will be a great player. For all I know he might be a really good defender. But he is factually horrible on offense, no way around that. Yeah he's a rookie, and he will get better and may become a stud one day. But he's not a stud now and some people act like he is

He's averaging 17/6/3 in his last 10 on 44% shooting. He's just been up and down all season. Stupid shot selection, taking difficult shots. Some of that was kinda forced on him early on, some of that is just bad decision making and him trying to do too much given where's currently at.

Been two sides to Mudiay all year. The guy who can hit some big shots, defend really well, run the offense vs the guy who chucks stupid shots and kills you with his inefficiency. The TO's don't matter. Show me how many 19 year old PG's who run an offense that don't turn it over? Mudiay is averaging close to 6 dimes. 3.4 turnovers isn't brutal. He's averaging 2.9 post All-Star so there dropping. 11 his first game, 6, 9, 6, in his first month of play deff inflated those numbers as well. Just like going 6-20, 6-21, 1-7 in 17 minutes against GS has dragged his shooting numbers down. He shot 31% his first month and is now up too 36% on the season.

I have my own problems with Mudiay. He's a relentless shooter and if his finishing/shooting never develops I think that'll be an issue given his elite court vision and defensive potential. He could be a Rondo type player given his tools but doesn't seem like he has any interest in that. That could be great if things come together, if they don't could be ugly.

Regardless he's 20. Skipped college and played like 8 games in China. Physical tools are there. Way too early to really know. Some concerning things early on, and some brights spots.

[SwishSquared]

He overcomes his physical limitations with basketball IQ. Know's how to position himself around the basket, boxout, and where to be defensively. He still has lapses and because of the lack of physical tools gets himself caught and usually leads to a bad foul. That along with his quick hands should at the very least make him serviceable defensively. 1.7 stl/1.1 blks per 36 if that means anything. He is 6'11 with a 7'3 winspan and bulky. Just zero vertical, and doesn't have quick feet.

Amazing passer/creater for a big man. Can shoot the ball, work inside. He turned 21 a month ago and as a rookie flashing some serious skill. Just didn't get the consistent minutes to really blow up. I think by this time next year he'll be on everyone's radar.

Easily would take him over Mudiay going forward.He's extremely smart and has savvy well beyond his age. I just wonder about his lateral mobility long-term. In this era, your starting C needs to be above average on D. I think Jokic certainly has the BBIQ to play angles/positioning similarly to a Marc Gasol, but that's the biggest hole in his game right now. I'm surprised he slid into the 2nd round considering the buzz he had pre-draft. He's a really fun young guy to watch. This has been the best rookie class in some time- it's crazy how many guys are showing promise this fast.

[Kblaze8855]

But he is factually horrible on offense, no way around that.

Nah. The great majority of a point guards job has no number. If he spots a mismatch and calls the right play....his man posts up the mismatch and scores? He gets...nothing. He made the right decision for his team...but he gets nothing we can really track. A great leader who sets the pace, calls the right play, and keeps everyone involved might not do anything we can prove.

Even plus/minus is tricky on that one depending on the bench.

There are facts on...shooting numbers. Good/bad...is often hard to prove. Scorers have had numbers and made their team worse. Great defenders can change a game with nothing on paper.

Guys like him...you gotta take a good long look.

[Koop1]

I don't watch the Nuggets, so I can't speak on Mudiay, but his stats are so horrendously bad I highly doubt the "eye test" somehow makes him good.


I know hes a rookie and I'm sure he has tons of potential and has shown many good things that indicate he'll be a good player. Right now, though, he's terrible.


12.3/3.3/5.8 on .360/.304/.649 with 3.4 turnovers per game.

If you place any value on PER or WS....His PER is below 10 and his win shares are in the negatives.

If you use BPM or VORP, he is downright hideous there as well.

To his credit he does have a positive on/off net rating, which is something.


He might be good at defense, haven't watched him, but there's no way you can tell me he isn't dogshit at offense. Currently.


The Bold makes your opinion on him completely invalid ..

[NugzFan]

He overcomes his physical limitations with basketball IQ. Know's how to position himself around the basket, boxout, and where to be defensively. He still has lapses and because of the lack of physical tools gets himself caught and usually leads to a bad foul. That along with his quick hands should at the very least make him serviceable defensively. 1.7 stl/1.1 blks per 36 if that means anything. He is 6'11 with a 7'3 winspan and bulky. Just zero vertical, and doesn't have quick feet.

Amazing passer/creater for a big man. Can shoot the ball, work inside. He turned 21 a month ago and as a rookie flashing some serious skill. Just didn't get the consistent minutes to really blow up. I think by this time next year he'll be on everyone's radar.

.

IMO thats his best asset. a 7 footer who has vision and can pass the way he does? :rockon:

[NugzFan]

He's averaging 17/6/3 in his last 10 on 44% shooting. He's just been up and down all season. Stupid shot selection, taking difficult shots. Some of that was kinda forced on him early on, some of that is just bad decision making and him trying to do too much given where's currently at.

Been two sides to Mudiay all year. The guy who can hit some big shots, defend really well, run the offense vs the guy who chucks stupid shots and kills you with his inefficiency. The TO's don't matter. Show me how many 19 year old PG's who run an offense that don't turn it over? Mudiay is averaging close to 6 dimes. 3.4 turnovers isn't brutal. He's averaging 2.9 post All-Star so there dropping. 11 his first game, 6, 9, 6, in his first month of play deff inflated those numbers as well. Just like going 6-20, 6-21, 1-7 in 17 minutes against GS has dragged his shooting numbers down. He shot 31% his first month and is now up too 36% on the season.

I have my own problems with Mudiay. He's a relentless shooter and if his finishing/shooting never develops I think that'll be an issue given his elite court vision and defensive potential. He could be a Rondo type player given his tools but doesn't seem like he has any interest in that. That could be great if things come together, if they don't could be ugly.

Regardless he's 20. Skipped college and played like 8 games in China. Physical tools are there. Way too early to really know. Some concerning things early on, and some brights spots.

well said. :cheers:

he had even less experience than freshmen coming out of college. at least they got a good 30 or so games against top college talent. mudiay is just getting started. already showing great improvement vs the beginning of the year.

[kurple]

Lets add an halfcourt game winner to his resume


No one can say that he hasn't been improving all year long

[NugzFan]

Lets add an halfcourt game winner to his resume


No one can say that he hasn't been improving all year long

Can you imagine if Russell had a game like last night? This board would be unreadable

[jernejteras]

Ha! I'm a Lakers fan. I want this next generation to be great, so I am rooting for all of these rookies to keep hungry and keep working hard.

+1, let us hope, they both become great!

[AirTupac]

Improving ? Improving how?

He shot 0.90% against the Cavs (1/11)
He's still shooting 30% FG and still awful.

Even yesterday, his best game ever, he shot 41% against Philly LOL

[NugzFan]

Improving ? Improving how?

He shot 0.90% against the Cavs (1/11)
He's still shooting 30% FG and still awful.

Even yesterday, his best game ever, he shot 41% against Philly LOL

So jealous. So sad.

[AirTupac]

So jealous. So sad.

Thats all you say when I bring in the facts baby boy.

[NuggetsFan]

Improving ? Improving how?

He shot 0.90% against the Cavs (1/11)
He's still shooting 30% FG and still awful.

Even yesterday, his best game ever, he shot 41% against Philly LOL

He's shooting like 36%. Awful but considering the other things he does and he's a rookie whatever. Not like it's actually 30% like it was at the start of the season :oldlol:

Best game ever? He dropped 30 on 65% shooting. 25 on 56%. 26 on 62%. He didn't even shoot 41% against Philly but 43% for the record. One of the best for sure, but he's a couple real solid games/stretches.

Russell is shooting like 6% better and Mudiay is better at every other thing on the basketball court. Russell shoots the ball better, and can finish better as a scorer.

[AirTupac]

He's shooting like 36%. Awful but considering the other things he does and he's a rookie whatever. Not like it's actually 30% like it was at the start of the season :oldlol:

Best game ever? He dropped 30 on 65% shooting. 25 on 56%. 26 on 62%. He didn't even shoot 41% against Philly but 43% for the record. One of the best for sure, but he's a couple real solid games/stretches.

Russell is shooting like 6% better and Mudiay is better at every other thing on the basketball court. Russell shoots the ball better, and can finish better as a scorer.

Russell is already turning out to be a very decent defender. He's better at being a floor general, leader, steals, less turnovers, better percentages by far across the board.

[kurple]

Russell is also great at snitching on teammates and posting personal shit on his mystory

[golden24boy]

still reminds me...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nYwTq6VfMQ

[NugzFan]

Thats all you say when I bring in the facts baby boy.

Because it's true.

[STATUTORY]

He's shooting like 36%. Awful but considering the other things he does and he's a rookie whatever. Not like it's actually 30% like it was at the start of the season :oldlol:

Best game ever? He dropped 30 on 65% shooting. 25 on 56%. 26 on 62%. He didn't even shoot 41% against Philly but 43% for the record. One of the best for sure, but he's a couple real solid games/stretches.

Russell is shooting like 6% better and Mudiay is better at every other thing on the basketball court. Russell shoots the ball better, and can finish better as a scorer.
The only other notable thing Mudiay does is turning the ball over at historic rate and not being able to finish at the hoop despite the "athletic" label

[NuggetsFan]

Russell is already turning out to be a very decent defender. He's better at being a floor general, leader, steals, less turnovers, better percentages by far across the board.

Russell doesn't even run the offense like Mudiay does. I mean just watch the game right now. Mudiay without a doubt is a better passer/floor general and it's not that close IMO. Much like Russell is the much better shooter and it isn't even close.

Mudiay is better defensively, better passer, far worse shooter, worse scorer overall right now due to his inconsistency, and just overall inefficiency.

[NuggetsFan]

The only other notable thing Mudiay does is turning the ball over at historic rate and not being able to finish at the hoop despite the "athletic" label

Mudiay has earned the "athletic" label because he's 6'5 200+ and strong as hell with a good first step and quickness. His leaping ability isn't anything special.

Mudiay is averaging 3.2 turnovers. As a 19/20 year old rookie PG being asked to be the lead ball handler on a team. He's averaging 2.4 turnovers this month. 2.6 post All-Star break. You ask a rookie to be your starting PG and he's probably going to turn it over. Especially if he didn't play college and had like 12 games of pro experience before stepping onto an NBA court.

His turnovers were never a redflag. His shot selection, inconsistent form, and just scoring efficiency overall is/was. He's improving that. I mean Russell's shooting 42%. If Mudiay was shooting even 3-5% higher and Mudiay would easily be considered the better player right now.

[NugzFan]

Russell doesn't even run the offense like Mudiay does. I mean just watch the game right now. Mudiay without a doubt is a better passer/floor general and it's not that close IMO. Much like Russell is the much better shooter and it isn't even close.

Mudiay is better defensively, better passer, far worse shooter, worse scorer overall right now due to his inconsistency, and just overall inefficiency.

this I can agree with. well said :cheers:

[dreamwarrior]

He's more polished on everything except scoring. But he did have a season in China under his belt. It's too early to tell but Mudiay is currently leading the race by a hair vs Russell