Wilt Chamberlain- A Los Angeles Dilemma (SI Article from 1969)

[Stringer Bell]

Interesting article on the 1968-69 Lakers, with the Wilt/Van Breda Kolff feud, trying to balance out West/Baylor/Wilt on the team. Kind of sucks how the fans were to Wilt.

I always like going back and reading on how some of the views were at certain times.


[QUOTE]
ON TOP

[Stringer Bell]

[QUOTE]When he was coaching Chamberlain last year, Alex Hannum suggested this possibility, and Wilt promptly went out and scored more than 50 points in each of the next three games. Perhaps he needs a challenge, for nothing else has served to make him go to the basket, even though van Breda Kolff and his teammates keep urging him to and he acknowledges to them that he should.

He still wants the ball and moans when he does not get it, but he seldom shows any inclination to shoot. In pregame practice he throws up desultory 30-foot hooks and long one-handers. The Lakers watch him and shake their heads.

Opponents agree that the Lakers are tougher to defend against when Chamberlain is working to score. "His man, Zelmo Beaty in our case, has to concentrate on him then," says Atlanta Coach Richie Guerin, "so Zelmo can't step back and help anybody else

[FKAri]

wow. great find

[coin24]

He couldn't carry the load, too tired from all those sweet di.cks

[LAZERUSS]

He couldn't carry the load, too tired from all those sweet di.cks

Check the date on that article (I'll help... it hit the newstands on 1/27/69)...

It was written before 1/27, but hit the newstands on 1/27...

In one of the biggest blunders ever printed...

[QUOTE]The main problem on the court is not that Chamberlain, Baylor and West do not get the ball enough. [B]It is that Chamberlain will not

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12091585&postcount=69

Ok, now on to game four, and the pivotal PLAY that ultimately cost the Lakers a title in 1969 (albeit, there were several other's, as well.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=b7bB1FXutcMC&pg=PA224&lpg=PA224&dq=johnny+egan+had+the+ball+stolen+by+emmette+brya nt&source=bl&ots=Kkcu4JS0-j&sig=MdVUhvva2_PEnjIea_737nMAeYg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWoemgkMvKAhXKJiYKHbhtBLAQ6AEIHDAA#v=on epage&q=johnny%20egan%20had%20the%20ball%20stolen%20by%2 0emmette%20bryant&f=false


The Celtics proved that again in Game 4 as Sam Jones hit a dramatic off-balance, game-winning shot with a second to play to lift his team to a wild 89-88 victory over the Lakers. "I thought Sam's shot was going to miss when he put it up, "Russell confessed, "I said to myself__'Oh damn!" But the ball looked like it had fingers and just crawled in. To Lakers coach Bill van Breda Kolff, the basket represented a nightmare come true. "I've lost tough one's before," he sighed, "but never any tougher." Elgin Baylor concurred: "It was a lucky shot. But [Jones] made it. And that's what counts. He slipped, went off-balance and still put the ball in the hoop."

An improbable series of events set the stage for the victory shot, starting with a nondescript out-of-bounds play iniated by Baylor under the Los Angeles basket with 14 seconds remaining. Protecting an 88-87 Lakers lead, Baylor passed the ball to Johnny Egan, who promptly had it stolen away from him by Boston's Emmette Bryant. "He slapped me right on the arm and knocked the ball loose," Egan said. "It was the key play in the game and [the officials] didn't call it." Bryant immediately flicked a pass to Jones, who launched a 15-foot jumper from the right of the key. The ball bounced off the front of the rim, but the Celtics retained possession, and called time-out with 7 seconds to play. While contemplating his options in the huddle, player-coach Russell was successfully lobbied by Havlicek and Siegfried to use a play straight out of their old Ohio State playbook. "There's just enough time for it," said Havlicek, who had introduced the play to his teammates at an earlier practice session during the Philadelphia series. The play call for the use of a triple screen to give the intended shooter, in this case Jones, a clean look at the basket. "We walked through it one time in the huddle, just to make sure everyone would be sure of what he had to do," said Jones, who had 16 points and 4 rebounds. When play resumed Bryant inbounded the ball to Havlicek, who then "broke" to form a defensive barrier along-side Bailey Howell and Don Nelson near the free-throw line. While this was taking place, Jones wheeled around the screen on the right to receive the anticipated pass from Havlicek. After momentarily stumbling on the parquet floor, Jones tossed up a prayer that hit both the front and back rims before finally dropping.

"I didn't think the ball was going in," said Jones. "In fact. I didn't think it was going in the right general direction and I didn't think it was going to even make the front rim. I slipped as I tried to plant my foot."

ONE DAMNED LUCKY PLAY won the series.

But, think about this. Why didn't VBK call a time-out after the made Celtic free-throw had cut the lead to 88-87? Furthermore, what was Baylor thinking inbounding the ball to EGAN? Where was WEST?

There was plenty of blame to go around, including Wilt. Chamberlain had scored 8 points, on 3-8 from the field, and 2-11 from the line (in a one point loss), BUT, he had STILL managed to outplay Russell, who was even worse. Russell was ghastly. He scored 6 points, on 2-12 from the field, and 2-4 from the line. On top of that, Chamberlain outrebounded him,m 31-29. Of course, it was BAYLOR who REALLY blew chunks in that game. He scored FIVE points, on...get this... 2-14 from the field. BUT, it gets even worse...he also went an unfathomable, 1-5 from the line...in a ONE POINT loss!

That one stupid play, (and subsequent miracle shot) cost the Lakers a 4-1 series romp. Because, in game five, back in LA, the Lakers, behind Wilt finally just beating the stuffing out of Russell (outscoring him 13-7, and outrebounding him by a massive 31-13 margin)...pounded Boston, 117-104.

ONE PLAY.

Continued...

[Gileraracer]

LAZERUSS still trying to defend Wilt, the definition of a choker, himself.

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12091710&postcount=71


Chamberlain VERY SELDOM played a truly poor game in his entire post-season career. Hell, in his 160 playoff games, he had at least 20 rebounds in 124 of them. And a 20-20 game was a BAD game for a PRIME Wilt.

Furthermore, in their 49 post-season H2H games, Russell almost never outplayed Chamberlain.

However, both occurred in game six of the '69 Finals. With Wilt playing poorly, the Celtics built a 17 point lead going into the 4th quarter, and coasted to a 99-90 win. Russell outscored Wilt, 9-8, outshot Wilt, 3-8 to 1-5 (and 3-3 to 6-10 from the line), and outrebounded Wilt, 19-18. Obviously, the difference wasn't much, but had Chamberlain just put up even a near normal game, the series would have been over.

Instead, the series was now tied, 3-3. Still, game seven was back in LA, where the Lakers would be favored. Their owner was so confident that his Lakers would win, that he had a ton of balloons hanging from the ceiling, the USC marching band in attendance, and champagne on ice in the locker room. None of which sat well with Russell and his proud Celtics.

Boston immediately jumped out a 24-12 lead, and slowly took control of the game. Late in the third period, the margin was up to 15, and even worse, Wilt picked up his 5th personal foul. However, he remained in the game, and in fact, was a defensive factor for the rest of his time in the contest.

Early in the 4th quarter, it was now Russell who picked up HIS 5th personal foul, but, unlike Wilt, who was still contesting shots, Russell completely went into hiding. Right after that foul, the Lakers inbounded the ball into a low-post Wilt, and he went right around the "statue" Russell for an easy lay-in. However, and mainly do the the incompetence of Van Breda Kolff, Chamberlain never got another low-post touch again.

With ten minutes remaining, Boston had extended their lead to 17 points. It was then that the Lakers started mounting a furious rally. Aided by Sam Jones fouling out shortly thereafter, LA stormed back and cut the margin to 11 with over six minutes remaining. BUT, Chamberlain, while grabbing a rebound, came down awkwardedly, and injured his knee. He still threw an outlet that led to another Laker basket, and the lead was now only nine points. He stayed hobbled at the defensive end, and then grabbed yet another rebound (BTW, those two rebounds, on successive possessions, equaled Russell's entire total in his 4th quarter), and his outlet led to a play in which West was fouled. Wilt HAD to come out. The Lakers called time-out, and VBK sent in Mel Counts to replace Chamberlain. West subsequently hit both FTs, and the lead was now down to seven, with about five-and-a-half minutes remaining.

After the game, there were rumors that were circulating that Wilt had "feigned" his injury. However, even Van Breda Kolff, who absolutely despised Wilt, defended Wilt's injury. Furthermore, if Wilt were somehow trying to protect his image, why wouldn't he have "faked" it late in the 3rd quarter, and after his 5th foul, and with his team trailing by 15 points? And why would he pull himself out of the game, when the Lakers had chopped a full 10 points off of a 17 point margin, and in a little over four minutes, and with over five minutes left in the game?

In any case, the Celtics were running on fumes, and were slowly dying. LA continued to cut into the deficit, and with a little over two minutes left, the margin was now 103-102. That is when Wilt, now feeling well enough to play, asked VBK to go back in. Van Breda Kolff refused, and that decision basically cost not only the city of Los Angeles their very first title, but it basically ruined VBK's coaching career.

Boston extended the lead back to 105-102, and then Wilt's "replacement' mel Counts, missed a shot. Boston would get the ball to Don Nelson at the free-throw line, where he put up a shot that clanked off the back of the rim...went straight up, and came straight down into the basket, for an insurmountable 107-102 lead. Counts threw an errant pass with under a minute remaining, as well, to seal the loss... 108-106. BTW, Counts shot 4-13 from the floor in that game.

Was game seven WILT's fault? In his 43 minutes, he scored 18 points, on 7-8 from the floor (and admittedly, 4-13 from the line), with 27 rebounds. Meanwhile, his counter-part, Russell, had just been pathetic. Russell scored six points, on 2-7 from the field, and 2-4 from the line, with 21 rebounds.

Even more damning...remove Wilt's and Russell's FG/FGAs from that game...and Russell's teammates outshot Wilt's teammates from the floor by a staggering .477 to .360 margin! Even the brilliant West had his lapses. He missed more shots than he made (going 14-29 from the floor), and even missed two of his four missed free-throws down the stretch (going 14-18 overall.)

Unbelievably, the Lakers had lost a seven game series, including a game seven, two point loss, with a series of poor play, multiple miraculous game-winning shots from Boston, an injury to Wilt, and just a complete meltdown by a coach.

When West, and owner Jack Kent Cooke had learned that Wilt had asked to go back in, they were furious. But before Cooke could fire VBK, he quit. Again, the stubborn Van Breda Kolff put his own hatred for Wilt above even winning a world championship.

Chamberlain would eventually get Los Angeles their first ring a couple of years later. LA brought in Bill Sharman in the 71-72 season, and after he basically jettisoned Baylor following the ninth game, the Lakers immediately went on a 33 game winning streak, en route to a 69-13 record, and a dominating world title. Oh, and in the Finals, and with West just choking on his own puke the entire series, Chamberlain absolutely destroyed the Knicks, in a series in which he averaged 19 ppg, 23 rpg, and shot .600 from the field...which included a clinching game five performance of 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds (the entire NY team only had 39), and 8 blocked shots. All accomplished with one badly sprained wrist, and the other fractured.

Now, you know EVERYTHING you need to know about the '69 Finals.

Butch "the Butcher" Van Breda Kolff not only cost the city of Los Angeles their very first NBA title,...he basically cost himself his career. He would coach in the NBA for a couple of more seasons, then move the ABA where he coached for several more. But after his debacle in '69... a 180-269 record.

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE]Fans of Chamberlain point out that he is being criticized for doing the same thing that has brought glory to Russell

[90sgoat]

In a recent game on national television he blocked 23 shots against Phoenix.

:bowdown:

[warriorfan]

Wilt isn't even a top 10 All Time Player

[LAZERUSS]

:bowdown:

Everyone here probably knows by now that Chamberlain had the only 20-20-20 game in NBA history (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 assists), but he also had a game against Walt Bellamy in which the recap had him scoring 34 points, grabbing 33 rebounds, and having "at least 20 blocks."

Oh, and near the end of the '68 season, he had a game of 22 points, 27 rebounds, and 19 assists. In fact, it occurred in a stretch of 12 games in which he had 11 triple-doubles (an NBA record nine in a row), and the only game in which he failed to record 10+ assists, he had nine, to go along with 38 points, and 28 rebounds.

[ISHGoat]

How come he never did this in the playoffs?

[ClipperRevival]

The guy was missing that fire in his belly. The stuff Russell, MJ, Kobe, Bird, etc had. That willingness to dig deeper when it mattered most. Wilt was supposed to dominate. Besides Shaq, the league has never seen a true 7 footer with their size, strength and athleticism. He was one of the few humans who could tand next to Shaq and they look about the same in size. He was THAT freaken big. I just can't respect a guy who didn't pout his heart and soul into the game. I can't relate to that type of thinking. That is beta stuff. The mental side of the game is just as important as the skills/athleticism part.

[LAZERUSS]

How come he never did this in the playoffs?

Never did what?

FOUR playoff games of 50+ points, including the ONLY three by a GOAT caliber player in a "must win" game (and he had a Finals "must win game of 45-27 BTW.)

He had two straight triple-double SERIES in '67 (28-27-11 on a .617 FG%, and then 22-32-10 on a .556 FG% against Russell), which included two known QUAD doubles (24-32-13-12, and 10-38-10-10) and another triple double game of 16-30-19 in which he had an estimated 20 blocked shots.

I could list his MANY POST-SEASON records, but why bother? Needless to say, he has the ONLY FOUR 30-20 post-season runs, as well as NINE 20-20 playoff seasons.

[ClipperRevival]

9 teams in NBA history have come back from 3-1 deficits. And Wilt was on the receiving end one of them. Not to mention, beind on the losing end in some of the most iconic wins for other greats like Russell in 1969 (last season and huge underdogs) and Reed in 1970 (the famous injury game). Those are two of the most legendary and well remembered moments in playoff history and again, Wilt is on the wrong end of the stick. It's just a bad look for Wilt and it's not all coincidence. At some point, you have to stop pointing fingers and just take over the game because you have the talent to do so. But in some of these brightest moments, he shrunk. Guys like MJ or Russell wouldn't let it get to that. They would dig deeper because they wanted to win more than you. It's about winning.

[Pointguard]

Check the date on that article (I'll help... it hit the newstands on 1/27/69)...

It was written before 1/27, but hit the newstands on 1/27...

In one of the biggest blunders ever printed...



Just the night before this article hit the newstands...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196901260CIN.html

Fascinating...Chamberlain with a 60 point game.

Oh, and how about this game a couple of weeks later...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196902090LAL.html

Hmmm... a 66 point game.


What kind of a coach was Butch "the Butcher" Van Breda Kolff?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12091424&postcount=68



So guess what? In the playoffs, Wilt was basically setting screens for Baylor...who would be the worst shooter on the entire team in the post-season (.385.) Not only that, but in three of the Lakers' Finals losses, by margins of 6,1, and 2 points...Baylor shot 4-18, 2-14, and 8-22 from the field.
Ether.

Thanks for totally shredding that garbage article. Van Breda Kolff would have been brought up on charges for criminally bad coaching. The author of this article was waiting for Wilt to fall off and figured his window of opportunity was small and just let it go.

[ClipperRevival]

Laz,

Do you not realize that when you post these impressive stats of Wilt that you are only confirming what many believe? That he is completely capable of great things but can't duplicate it when it matters most? When you do nothing but deflect, it only makes people hate Wilt more. You have to accept the reality of the situation and admit that he came up short when it mattered in several playoffs and that negatively affects his legacy. And trying to deflect only makes you look like you aren't objective. I have watched every single documentary available on Wilt on Youtube and every single one of them has a segment discussing his losing and why he didn't win more. He is top 4 GOAT in my book but he could've done more.

[LAZERUSS]

The guy was missing that fire in his belly. The stuff Russell, MJ, Kobe, Bird, etc had. That willingness to dig deeper when it mattered most. Wilt was supposed to dominate. Besides Shaq, the league has never seen a true 7 footer with their size, strength and athleticism. He was one of the few humans who could tand next to Shaq and they look about the same in size. He was THAT freaken big. I just can't respect a guy who didn't pout his heart and soul into the game. I can't relate to that type of thinking. That is beta stuff. The mental side of the game is just as important as the skills/athleticism part.

Like MJ going 1-9 before Pippen arrived, right? And in his highest scoring season, he and his Bulls were swept in the first round, and in a series in which he shot .417 from the floor, and went 9-35 in a close=out game? Or QUITTING on his team in a pivotal game five of the playoffs, in a series tied 2-2? Or WINNING a ring in a Finals in which he shot .415 (and winning the clinching game with a 5-19 effort?)

Or Bird taking his Celtics down in flames in SEVEN post-season series with HCA, including being swept in a series in which he averaged 18.7 ppg on a .441 FG%; losing as a favorite against a Piston team that held him to 19.8 ppg on a ...get this... .351 FG%; and WINNING a ring in a series in which he averaged 15 ppg on a .419 FG%.

Or a prime KAJ going to TWO Finals in his first ten seasons (and pre-MAGIC), and only winning ONE. And getting outplayed in a game seven blowout loss on his home floor by Dave Cowens; or taking his heavily-favored Bucks down the toilet against Nate Thurmond's Warriors in the first round, in a series in which he shot .428 (and being held to a .405 series in another series against Thurmond); or losing in the first round against a far inferior Sonics team; or getting his ass handed to him by Moses in a shocking first round playoff loss to a 40-42 team; oir being brutalized by Moses a couple of years later in a sweeping Finals loss" or being outplayed by a 35 year old Wilt in the '72 WCF's, and his one year "dynasty" crumbling; or WINNING a ring in a Finals in which he averaged 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and shot .414...with a game seven of 4 four points, on 2-7 shooting (thank you MAGIC.)

Or your boy Hakeem...the KING of FIRST ROUND EXITS (EIGHT of them,..and most all blowout losses.)

Or Shaq being SWEPT SIX times in the playoffs (and nearly EIGHT.)

Or Kobe consistently puking all over the floor in his seven career Finals.

Or West going 1-9 in his Finals...and getting his ONLY ring...thanks to WILT...in a Finals in which West shot .325 from the floor.

You can right down the list my friend. All of them CHOKERS.

[houston]

cool read

[ClipperRevival]

Like MJ going 1-9 before Pippen arrived, right? And in his highest scoring season, he and his Bulls were swept in the first round, and in a series in which he shot .417 from the floor, and went 9-35 in a close=out game? Or QUITTING on his team in a pivotal game five of the playoffs, in a series tied 2-2? Or WINNING a ring in a Finals in which he shot .415 (and winning the clinching game with a 5-19 effort?)

Or Bird taking his Celtics down in flames in SEVEN post-season series with HCA, including being swept in a series in which he averaged 18.7 ppg on a .441 FG%; losing as a favorite against a Piston team that held him to 19.8 ppg on a ...get this... .351 FG%; and WINNING a ring in a series in which he averaged 15 ppg on a .419 FG%.

Or a prime KAJ going to TWO Finals in his first ten seasons (and pre-MAGIC), and only winning ONE. And getting outplayed in a game seven blowout loss on his home floor by Dave Cowens; or taking his heavily-favored Bucks down the toilet against Nate Thurmond's Warriors in the first round, in a series in which he shot .428 (and being held to a .405 series in another series against Thurmond); or losing in the first round against a far inferior Sonics team; or getting his ass handed to him by Moses in a shocking first round playoff loss to a 40-42 team; oir being brutalized by Moses a couple of years later in a sweeping Finals loss" or being outplayed by a 35 year old Wilt in the '72 WCF's, and his one year "dynasty" crumbling; or WINNING a ring in a Finals in which he averaged 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and shot .414...with a game seven of 4 four points, on 2-7 shooting (thank you MAGIC.)

Or your boy Hakeem...the KING of FIRST ROUND EXITS (EIGHT of them,..and most all blowout losses.)

Or Shaq being SWEPT SIX times in the playoffs (and nearly EIGHT.)

Or Kobe consistently puking all over the floor in his seven career Finals.

Or West going 1-9 in his Finals...and getting his ONLY ring...thanks to WILT...in a Finals in which West shot .325 from the floor.

You can right down the list my friend. All of them CHOKERS.

None of them were in a situation like Wilt in 1968 and 1969. We went through this a million times man. Like I said, if you don't find any fault in this GOAT level talent laying eggs in these close out games, there no point discussing.

Many of the situations you described above are lacking proper context. Like being the far inferior team. That wasn't the case for Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

9 teams in NBA history have come back from 3-1 deficits. And Wilt was on the receiving end one of them. Not to mention, beind on the losing end in some of the most iconic wins for other greats like Russell in 1969 (last season and huge underdogs) and Reed in 1970 (the famous injury game). Those are two of the most legendary and well remembered moments in playoff history and again, Wilt is on the wrong end of the stick. It's just a bad look for Wilt and it's not all coincidence. At some point, you have to stop pointing fingers and just take over the game because you have the talent to do so. But in some of these brightest moments, he shrunk. Guys like MJ or Russell wouldn't let it get to that. They would dig deeper because they wanted to win more than you. It's about winning.

As long as you keep printing your trash...I will keep destroying it...

Wilt's '68 EDF's...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13

He and his injury-DECIMATED Sixers weren't even favored in their FIRST ROUND (in a series in which Wilt led both teams in scoring, rebounding, assists, and FG%... 25-24-7 .584)...and then crushed Russell in the EDF's with a 22-25-7 series...all while playing every minute of every game of that series with the SAME injury that left a helpless Reed a statue in the last three games of the '70 Finals (when Wilt outscored him, 88-11, outrebounded him, 71-3, and outshot him, 39-55 to 4-10.)

As for Russell...Chamberlain BADLY outscored him, BADLY outrebounded him, and BADLY outshot him in their EIGHT post-season H2H's. Included were a 30-31 .555 series in which Chamberlain's 40-40 Sixers lost a game seven to Russell's 62-18 Celtics by ONE point...and his '67 EDF's, when he absolutely slaughtered a helpless Russell, who had watch in horror as Chamberlain and his Sixers destroyed the eight time defending champions.

Chamberlain played in 160 post-season games, and was seldom outplayed by any of his HOF peers.

[Pointguard]

The guy was missing that fire in his belly. The stuff Russell, MJ, Kobe, Bird, etc had. That willingness to dig deeper when it mattered most. Wilt was supposed to dominate. Besides Shaq, the league has never seen a true 7 footer with their size, strength and athleticism. He was one of the few humans who could tand next to Shaq and they look about the same in size. He was THAT freaken big. I just can't respect a guy who didn't pout his heart and soul into the game. I can't relate to that type of thinking. That is beta stuff. The mental side of the game is just as important as the skills/athleticism part.
Centers always were kind of dependent on guards getting them the ball or systemic play and rarely win without great coaching or guards - that's why you didn't mention any offensive centers in your list above. Shaq without great coaching and system play had some great teams in Orlando and LA and only had one year where he really won on his play. The refs were heavily in play in three of those rings. There was nothing Beta about Shaq's game at all. He had the best teammates in his era. You are oversimplifying things way too hard. Its true with the greatest centers Shaq, Wilt and Kareem.

[LAZERUSS]

Laz,

Do you not realize that when you post these impressive stats of Wilt that you are only confirming what many believe? That he is completely capable of great things but can't duplicate it when it matters most? When you do nothing but deflect, it only makes people hate Wilt more. You have to accept the reality of the situation and admit that he came up short when it mattered in several playoffs and that negatively affects his legacy. And trying to deflect only makes you look like you aren't objective. I have watched every single documentary available on Wilt on Youtube and every single one of them has a segment discussing his losing and why he didn't win more. He is top 4 GOAT in my book but he could've done more.

What's your definition of "coming up short?"

In his WORST post-season series, the '69 Finals, in which as you have already read, he was coached by an idiot...he still averaged a 12-25 .500, and in game seven, wiped the floor with Russell (outscoring him, 18-6, outrebounding him, 27-21, and outshooting him, 7-8 to 2-7.)?

Again...Jordan took his 40-42 Bulls down in the first round in his highest scoring season...in a sweeping loss, with a horrific shooting series. Chamberlain dragged a roster, the core of which was the same last place roster he inherited in his rookie season, to a game seven, two point loss against a 60-20 HOF-laden Celtics team that was favored in every game of that series...in his highest scoring season...and did so with a 34-27 series.

Or taking a huge under-dog 40-40 Sixers team to a game seven, one point loss against Boston's greatest team in the Russell era (62-18), and in a series in which he just castrated Russell.

The reality was...Chamberlain was putting up 20-20 post-season runs nearly his entire playoff career, and yet you blame HIM for losing?

Again...I have listed players like Bird, Kobe, MJ, KAJ, Hakeem, and Shaq with their post-season "flop jobs." Why can't YOU except the fact that those guys were just as pathetic "chokers" as Wilt?

[LAZERUSS]

None of them were in a situation like Wilt in 1968 and 1969. We went through this a million times man. Like I said, if you don't find any fault in this GOAT level talent laying eggs in these close out games, there no point discussing.

Many of the situations you described above are lacking proper context. Like being the far inferior team. That wasn't the case for Wilt.

Except...your definition of "laying an egg" is odd, don't you think?

I mean REALLY...the man is playing every minute of a brutal seven game series, NOTICEABLY LIMPING (with the SAME injury that Reed missed chunks of games with)...and with OVER HALF of his supporting roster playing hurt...and hanging a 22-25-7 series...and he "laid an egg?"

Or badly outplaying Russell in game seven of the '69 Finals? You mean an 18-27 game on an .875 FG% is "laying an egg?"

And yes, Wilt played on "FAR INFERIOR TEAMS" several times in his post-season career.

In fact, how about this...in Wilt's 13 post-seasons, he faced the eventual champion in TEN of them, and then WON two more. And in those ten losses, he was outgunned by HOF teammates in nearly ALL of them. Oh, and his TEAM lost FIVE game seven's...with FOUR of them by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points.

You want REALITY...


And here are Wilt's 23 "must win" playoff game numbers...

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points (including the ONLY THREE by a GOAT candidate)

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds


and here are his 37 "must win and series clinching playoff games"...

Wilt actually played in 37 "elimination games",...games where either his team faced elimination, or could have clinched the series:

1. W: 53-22-2, 24-42 FG/FGA

2. W: 50-35-2, 22-42

3. L: 26-24-0, 8-18

4. L: 33-23-1, 13-29

5. W: 56-35-1, 22-48

6. W: 32-21-1, 12-29

7. L: 22-22-3, 7-15

8. W: 39-30-?, 19-29

9. L: 30-27-2, 12-28

10. W: 38-26-5, 14-22, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

11. W: 30-26-4, 13-22, 13 blks (Triple-Double)

12. L: 30-32-2, 12-15

13. L: 46-34-?, 19-34

14. W: 18-27-9, 7-14

15. W: 29-36-13, 10-16, 7 blks (Triple-Double)

16. W: 24-23-4, 8-13

17. W: 25-27-3, 10-19

18. L: 28-30-7, 11-21

19. L: 20-27-8, 6-21

20. L: 14-34-5, 4-9

21. W: 11-25-1, 5-9

22. W: 16-29-3, 5-11, 16 blks (Triple-Double)

23. L: 8-18-4, 1-5

24. L: 18-27-3, 7-8

25. W: 36-14-3, 12-20

26. W: 12-26-11, 4-11, 11 blks (Quad-Double)

27. W: 30-27-6, 11-18, 11 blks (Triple-Double)

28. W: 45-27-3, 20-27

29. L: 21-24-4, 10-16

30. W: 25-19-9, 7-12

31. L: 23-12-4, 10-21

32. W: 8-31-8, 4-6

33. W: 20-24-2, 8-12, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

34. W: 24-29-4, 10-14, 8 blks

35. W: 21-28-4, 10-17, 8 blks

36. W: 5-22-7, 2-2

37. L: 23-21-3, 9-16


W-L : 24-13

Here were Wilt's averages in those 37 games:

29.5 ppg

26.1 rpg

4.2 apg (missing one game)

.546 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .440 on average in that span.)

Keep in mind that 24 of those 37 games came after his "scoring seasons" (59-60 thru 65-66)


THAT was the Wilt whom lacked a "killer instinct."

[ClipperRevival]

:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

:facepalm

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

Ether.

Thanks for totally shredding that garbage article. Van Breda Kolff would have been brought up on charges for criminally bad coaching. The author of this article was waiting for Wilt to fall off and figured his window of opportunity was small and just let it go.

I honestly can't think of another coach who so single-handedly led his team to a defeat.

I mean...having the greatest low-post player in NBA history playing the HIGH POST? Or benching him in the last five minutes of a game seven of the Finals...in a two point loss? Or allowing Baylor to shot-jack his team right down the toilet in the series?

Of course, when Wilt had great coaching (which wasn't very often)...two dominant title teams. And usually 60+ win seasons.

[ClipperRevival]

Centers always were kind of dependent on guards getting them the ball or systemic play and rarely win without great coaching or guards - that's why you didn't mention any offensive centers in your list above. Shaq without great coaching and system play had some great teams in Orlando and LA and only had one year where he really won on his play. The refs were heavily in play in three of those rings. There was nothing Beta about Shaq's game at all. He had the best teammates in his era. You are oversimplifying things way too hard. Its true with the greatest centers Shaq, Wilt and Kareem.

Lol. So you are discrediting 3 of Shaq's rings? Yeah, that's objective. And bigs can also fight hard to get good position and impose their will on the game or go half ass and blame others when he didn't get the ball. People continue to completely underestimate the mental aspect of the game. These are people who never competed at a high level imo (not saying you specifically). The game isn't played by robots. 30 points is not all the same. You get 30 within the flow or at the expense of your team. You can get 15 empty rebounds because you playe out of position or get 10 hard fought rebounds. Spewing individual numbers without proper context is weak stuff, which is all Wilt fans do.

[LAZERUSS]

Lol. So you are discrediting 3 of Shaq's rings? Yeah, that's objective. And bigs can also fight hard to get good position and impose their will on the game or go half ass and blame others when he didn't get the ball. People continue to completely underestimate the mental aspect of the game. These are people who never competed at a high level imo (not saying you specifically). The game isn't played by robots. 30 points is not all the same. You get 30 within the flow or at the expense of your team. You can get 15 empty rebounds because you playe out of position or get 10 hard fought rebounds. Spewing individual numbers without proper context is weak stuff, which is all Wilt fans do.

Shaq doesn't win two rings without Kobe leading the Lakers past the Spurs in the WCF's. Plain-and-simple. In fact, Shaq had a HUGE dropoff from his regular season numbers in one of them.

And, without Wade in '06...nada on yet another ring.

Jordan didn't win shit until he had rosters that could win 55+ games without him (and were one play away from at least going to the ECF's.) In fact, he LOST with that SAME roster the next year. He needed the ADDITION of HOFer Rodman to win his last three rings.

KAJ without Magic? ONE ring...and a decade of under-achieving.

Hakeem? :roll: :roll: :roll: The clown couldn't get past the first round in HALF of his post-season career. I have given the numbers before, but had Wilt been "fortunate enough" to have lost EIGHT times in the FIRST ROUND, his playoff stats would have been considerably higher.

Bird? A long list of playoff disasters. In fact, he "only" won three rings, with HOF laden rosters in his entire career, and in fact, barely won one against a 40-42 team and with a 15 ppg .419 series.

Kobe? Some horrific Finals. Arguably the worst Top-10 Finals performer of all-time.

[Pointguard]

I honestly can't think of another coach who so single-handedly led his team to a defeat.

I mean...having the greatest low-post player in NBA history playing the HIGH POST? Or benching him in the last five minutes of a game seven of the Finals...in a two point loss? Or allowing Baylor to shot-jack his team right down the toilet in the series?

Of course, when Wilt had great coaching (which wasn't very often)...two dominant title teams. And usually 60+ win seasons.

And positioning Wilt on the worst possible spot on the floor for the greatest rebounder ever. Baylor was showing his worse decision making ever in his career and didn't know his limitations at this time. Nobody really calling out Van Breda's obvious disdain for his franchise player. He made about five decisions that were horrific.

[LAZERUSS]

And positioning Wilt on the worst possible spot on the floor for the greatest rebounder ever. Baylor was showing his worse decision making ever in his career and didn't know his limitations at this time. Nobody really calling out Van Breda's obvious disdain for his franchise player. He made about five decisions that were horrific.

It was just pure baffoonery.

I have always found it fascinating that Sharman forced Baylor to retire after game nine of the 71-72 season...and the Lakers IMMEDIATELY went on a 33 game winning streak...en route to a dominating world title.

[LAZERUSS]

And positioning Wilt on the worst possible spot on the floor for the greatest rebounder ever. Baylor was showing his worse decision making ever in his career and didn't know his limitations at this time. Nobody really calling out Van Breda's obvious disdain for his franchise player. He made about five decisions that were horrific.

This sums up Van Breda Kolff's coaching in the '69 season...


Quote:
Butch Van Breda Kolff: "Not having enough basketballs wasn't the problem at all for us. The trade changed our chemistry. Elgin's favorite move was the drive from the left wing and into the middle. Now, when he did that, he ran into Wilt, and Wilt's man. Wilt took that move away from Elgin. Imhoff loved to pick-and-roll with Elgin, but that wasn't something Wilt did very well. So we were able to throw the ball down low to Wilt and he'd score, but it was an awful offense to watch. When the ball stops moving, then guys don't rebound or play defense as well as they normally would."

He had a guy capable of 60+ point games...but chose to have Baylor shoot them right down the toilet...because "it was an awful offense to watch."

[LAZERUSS]

9 teams in NBA history have come back from 3-1 deficits. And Wilt was on the receiving end one of them. Not to mention, beind on the losing end in some of the most iconic wins for other greats like Russell in 1969 (last season and huge underdogs) and Reed in 1970 (the famous injury game). Those are two of the most legendary and well remembered moments in playoff history and again, Wilt is on the wrong end of the stick. It's just a bad look for Wilt and it's not all coincidence. At some point, you have to stop pointing fingers and just take over the game because you have the talent to do so. But in some of these brightest moments, he shrunk. Guys like MJ or Russell wouldn't let it get to that. They would dig deeper because they wanted to win more than you. It's about winning.

How about this...


Game 5 of the '66 EDF's...Wilt's teammates had collectively shot .352 in this series, so Chamberlain took it upon himself to bring his Sixers back from a 3-1 deficit. He poured in 46 pts, and grabbed 34 rebounds,...just crushing Russell in the process. BUT, without ANY help, his team was beaten 120-112.

Ok, fast forward to the very next year. Now it was Russell's team that was down 3-1, and facing elimination against Wilt's Sixers. Did Russell rise up and overpower Wilt with a 46-34 game, when it was obvious that Wilt's teammates had finally neutralized his? Hell no...he quietly led them like a lamb being led to slaughter. In that "must win" game, the legendary "clutch" Russell, who "owned" Wilt...hung...get this...FOUR points. On a meager 2-5 shooting from the floor...in a blowout loss. Oh, and all Chamberlain did was crush him with a 29 point game, 22 of which came in the first half when the game was still close (proving that had he needed to Wilt could have poured in yet another 40+ point game on a helpless Russell.) And he did on 10-16 shooting, while outassisting Russell, 13-7, and outrebounding Russell, 36-21.

What happened? Why couldn't Russell summon up a "Wilt game" and destroy Chamberlain?

[Lebron23]

Jerry West and the Lakers losing a 7 games series in 1969. Lakers coach van Breda Kolff benched 4x NBA MVP wilt chamberlain in the last 5 minutes of the game because of foul trouble. Butch Breda Van Kolff was the original George Karl. Feuding with his star players rather than focus on winning a championship. That wilt and van Kolff feud cost the Lakers a championship in 1969. Russell retired after that season. West won the NBA first finals mvp while playing on a losing team.