Cavaliers' Frustration with Kyrie's lack of Passing is Growing

[34-24 Footwork]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2625552-kyrie-irvings-lack-of-passing-reportedly-frustrating-cavaliers-teammates


What does ISH think about this? This isn't the first time we've heard about this during the season. If the Cavs don't want Kyrie, who takes him? How do they replace Kyrie? Are they a better team with or without Kyrie?

[TomCat]

So lebron's 4 seconds left on the clock pass outs are ok?

[HurricaneKid]

Dude had 18 shots and zero assists at halftime. Ended up with 1 assist on a cursory kick out to KLove for a 3.

[NattyPButter]

this just another one of those BS stories.

[RedBlackAttack]

Haynes.

:yawn:

[Ranked 12th]

Kyrie is basically a Derek Fisher with fancier dribbling

[bdreason]

Play him at SG and stop pretending he's a PG or a playmaker. Same goes for Westbrook. These players don't have the discipline or IQ to run late-game offense, so stop asking them to.

Steph Curry is the NBA MVP and the Warriors don't hesitate to shift him to SG at the end of the game. At the end of the game you need a PG who will value possession of the ball over everything else.

[90sgoat]

I really don't see any difference between Kyrie and most point guards in the league (Kemba, Damian, Teague).

The other guys just are afraid to be what they are, selfish chuckers who are undersized 2 guards. These small guards thrive in the no contact NBA why should they pass?

[miggyme1]

issues don't become issues until you start losing. cavs are winning so all is fine in Cleveland at the moment. Im just waiting on the playoffs because you have to play a certain style of bball to advance in the playoffs.

[90sgoat]

Play him at SG and stop pretending he's a PG or a playmaker. Same goes for Westbrook. These players don't have the discipline or IQ to run late-game offense, so stop asking them to.

Steph Curry is the NBA MVP and the Warriors don't hesitate to shift him to SG at the end of the game. At the end of the game you need a PG who will value possession of the ball over everything else.

This.

[raiderfan19]

Play him at SG and stop pretending he's a PG or a playmaker. Same goes for Westbrook. These players don't have the discipline or IQ to run late-game offense, so stop asking them to.

Steph Curry is the NBA MVP and the Warriors don't hesitate to shift him to SG at the end of the game. At the end of the game you need a PG who will value possession of the ball over everything else.
Westbrook is an elite distributor these days.

[RedBlackAttack]

Play him at SG and stop pretending he's a PG or a playmaker. Same goes for Westbrook. These players don't have the discipline or IQ to run late-game offense, so stop asking them to.

Steph Curry is the NBA MVP and the Warriors don't hesitate to shift him to SG at the end of the game. At the end of the game you need a PG who will value possession of the ball over everything else.
It has already happened. That's why it is a non-story. Whether a guy is technically a point guard or shooting guard or whatever is really insignificant. Basketball is heading into a positionless direction where guys don't have a set spot, they have a role.

Kyrie is an amazing scorer. That's what he should be doing the majority of the time, especially with LBJ out.

But, this is just an overreaction to one game. He's averaging something like 20 points on 16 shots a game. It's not like he is taking 29 shots every game and, as long as he is playing efficiently, he is filling his role on this team. He's shooting around 50% from the field in the last 20 games.

If there isn't a negative story hovering over this team, the press isn't happy.

[Black and White]

The media have been getting on Kyrie Irving way too much, you forget he's had to adjust his game to accommodate 2 other stars, that isn't easy to do if you are coming from being a 1st option.

[PP34Deuce]

The ball actually sticks with him more than Lebron.

Irving is too great a scorer to not figure out the balance.

[RedBlackAttack]

The media have been getting on Kyrie Irving way too much, you forget he's had to adjust his game to accommodate 2 other stars, that isn't easy to do if you are coming from being a 1st option.
...and he's freaking 23. There is this intense pressure for him to get to his final product when it doesn't just happen like "that." He still has parts of his game that need work, but I can't remember too many 23-year-olds whose growth had reached its maximum level.

Especially not players that young who haven't exactly been playing in stable situations with quality coaching. Kyrie's first three years in the league were spent with Byron Scott and Mike Brown at the helm... and Dion Waiters as the team's 2nd best player.

All it takes is one or two games where he doesn't play to the media's satisfaction and then these stories start surfacing.

[miggyme1]

The media have been getting on Kyrie Irving way too much, you forget he's had to adjust his game to accommodate 2 other stars, that isn't easy to do if you are coming from being a 1st option.


you speak some truth but lets not forget kyrie has been playing pg his whole life Im sure. You eventually have to make an effort to develop those skills.....we seen curry do it...we seen billups do it. we have seen rose do it......westbrook has gotten better..he just gets caught up in his emotions from time to time and wants to "save" games instead of playing smart bball.

kyrie is a great passer that doesn't seem to like or know how to pass...reminds me of Marbury a lot.

[bdreason]

Westbrook is an elite distributor these days.

When the game is wide open he's a fantastic playmaker. When the game slows down, turns into a half-court game, against elite defenses... he struggles to create offense for his teammates or himself. In these situations you need the offense to generate shots, and in order to do that, you need a PG who can actually run a half-court offense.

[Black and White]

...and he's freaking 23. There is this intense pressure for him to get to his final product when it doesn't just happen like "that." He still has parts of his game that need work, but I can't remember too many 23-year-olds whose growth had reached its maximum level.

Especially not players that young who haven't exactly been playing in stable situations with quality coaching. Kyrie's first three years in the league were spent with Byron Scott and Mike Brown at the helm... and Dion Waiters as the team's 2nd best player.

All it takes is one or two games where he doesn't play to the media's satisfaction and then these stories start surfacing.

Playing on a team with immediate championship expectations and a star player the caliber of LeBron will have that effect/

Steph Curry is 28 years old, thats 5 years older than Kyrie, the media needs to chill and let him grow.

[Black and White]

you speak some truth but lets not forget kyrie has been playing pg his whole life Im sure. You eventually have to make an effort to develop those skills.....we seen curry do it...we seen billups do it. we have seen rose do it......westbrook has gotten better..he just gets caught up in his emotions from time to time and wants to "save" games instead of playing smart bball.

kyrie is a great passer that doesn't seem to like or know how to pass...reminds me of Marbury a lot.

Kyrie's skill is in his scoring, that's obvious, you would think that the team could accommodate that and perhaps make LeBron the facilitator? Since he's one of the best passers in the league.

[jbryan1984]

All these stories that keep coming out about the Cavs are so bogus.

[90sgoat]

This 'positionless' basketball works great until you meat a good defensive team and you turn the ball over, see Curry last finals, see Westbrook most games, see teams against Spurs.

Your point guard is your quarterback. Set playes become increasingly important as playoffs get deeper.

Curry and co. beating a Cavs team without both Love and Irving proves nothing.

Truth is, as much as I hate to admit it, Warriors would have lost against healthy Cavs,

[navy]

Kyrie's skill is in his scoring, that's obvious, you would think that the team could accommodate that and perhaps make LeBron the facilitator? Since he's one of the best passers in the league.
That's fine. But what about when Lebron is on the bench? Kyrie has to learn to pass the ball.

Not saying he has to turn to Chris Paul, but he has to become that Kobe level of playmaker when the right play arises he will make it.

I dont think this article hold much water, in fact it seems like the Cavs have fully told Kyrie to become the scorer on the team. Even take more shots than LBJ. Obviously he's not on Lebron's level yet, but next year he'll probably be shooting more shots than Lebron on a nightly basis with less efficiency. I think it's good. Kyrie needs to ascend to Superstar status in the next few years while the Cavs window is still open, but part of being a superstar is making the right play.

[Black and White]

That's fine. But what about when Lebron is on the bench? Kyrie has to learn to pass the ball.

Not saying he has to turn to Chris Paul, but he has to become that Kobe level of playmaker when the right play arises he will make it.

Yes I agree, or they could do things the way Golden State do it, by putting the ball in a player like Livingston's hands, could Delly be that guy? or Mo Williams?

Kyrie will adjust in due time though.

[navy]

Yes I agree, or they could do things the way Golden State do it, by putting the ball in a player like Livingston's hands, could Delly be that guy? or Mo Williams?

Kyrie will adjust in due time though.
Delly is that guy. His improvement this year has been crazy to watch.

I think he had like 7 assist in the last game, to Kyrie's 1.

[GrapeApe]

Irving needs to become a better off-ball player. His primary role needs to be that of an off-ball scorer. He'll still have stretches of being a ball-handler, but he needs to work on becoming more effective without the ball.

Look at Wade. That needs to be the model for Irving's game. He should study how Wade played when Lebron was in Miami and try to emulate that style of play. Wade became one of the best off-ball players in the league by working around screens, exploiting soft spots in the defense, and being a deadly cutter. Irving also needs to learn to use his gravity in the same manner as Wade. The key to being great off the ball is intelligence. You have to apply your talent in a more cerebral way. I think Irving has a good enough basketball IQ to become great off the ball if he works at it.

[Black and White]

Delly is that guy. His improvement this year has been crazy to watch.

I think he had like 7 assist in the last game, to Kyrie's 1.

Also has a decent 3 point shot too, his work with TT has been good.

[ZenMaster]

All these stories that keep coming out about the Cavs are so bogus.

Like Kyrie and Dion Waiters having trouble in the locker room right?

[Gileraracer]

Bros I am serious. Lebron needs more help. He is not able to hand pick his teams by himself.


Bring more help guys

[Young X]

People get mad when I say these guys aren't really point guards. They're shooting guards with some PG skills that are too small to be SG's.

[Nash]

I don't get it though, with his amazing dribbling ability and the way that he can make defenses collapse, shouldn't this make it easier for him to find the open man?

If he wanted to, he could become a really good playmaker.

[LilEddyCurry]

Play him at SG and stop pretending he's a PG or a playmaker. Same goes for Westbrook. These players don't have the discipline or IQ to run late-game offense, so stop asking them to.

Steph Curry is the NBA MVP and the Warriors don't hesitate to shift him to SG at the end of the game. At the end of the game you need a PG who will value possession of the ball over everything else.

When you have LeBron James in your team then it ok that the point guard isn't a natural facilitator like in this case for Kyrie Irving. LeBron is pretty much the point guard on offence for the Cavs.

[Cali Syndicate]

Kyrie is basically a Derek Fisher with fancier dribbling

you're basically Caitlyn Jenner without a p3nis

[DukeDelonte13]

Kyrie deserves some culpability for his play.

Is he still young? Yes.

Is scoring his best NBA tool? Yes.

Is taking contested jumper after contested jumper without even moving the ball once on a possession something you want you PG to do on a consistent basis? Hell f*cking no.

His teammates have a right to be pissed at him. As a fan i'm pissed.

It's a fact:

When the Cavs play Kyrie ball they are no better offensively than any of the teams they have fielded since his rookie year.

[Lebron23]

LeBron is their primary playmaker. Kyrie just needs to play like Wade an undersized Combo Guard.

[Akrazotile]

I said as soon as Lebron came back and they were trying to move the Wiggins pick, MOVE KYRIE INSTEAD.

It was obvious it wasn't a good fit and point guards are crazy overrated for winning championships.

Coulda got some nice value for Kyrie plus used that #1 pick to just build the team around Lebron methodically. Instead they tried to do it all in one year and they botched it.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie deserves some culpability for his play.

Is he still young? Yes.

Is scoring his best NBA tool? Yes.

Is taking contested jumper after contested jumper without even moving the ball once on a possession something you want you PG to do on a consistent basis? Hell f*cking no.

His teammates have a right to be pissed at him. As a fan i'm pissed.

It's a fact:

When the Cavs play Kyrie ball they are no better offensively than any of the teams they have fielded since his rookie year.
My personal opinion is that he's taking far more heat this year than what he deserves.

Let's first state the obvious... he had a serious injury that needed a ton of rehabilitation just to get him to the point where he could play basketball again this season. I know all of the prognostications at the time of the injury were around the 4-6 month mark, but Blake Griffin suffered exactly the same injury (broken kneecap) his rookie season and he was out for an entire calendar year.

Let's rewind back to last year... there seems to be this perception now that he and LeBron have had clashes all throughout their 1 1/2 seasons together. Truth is, after an initial period at the start of last season when everyone's new role was being defined, they played pretty brilliant basketball together.

So, jump forward to his season this year, which started in the middle of December I believe, and it feels like people just expected him to pick up right where he left off despite not being able to play real basketball for seven months. He had no training camp -- he basically had to do that in the middle of the season -- and he was stepping onto a roster that had to adjust to playing without him.

It took time for him to even get his legs back under him, not to mention all of the inner-conflict which seems to be a constant with this team, be it LeBron, Love, Kyrie, Blatt, Lue, or someone else -- whether it is real or perceived.

But, finally, he gets back to playing a high level of basketball -- he is putting up 24 points on 50% shooting and adding five assists in 33 minutes over the last 23 games -- and after every relatively minor hiccup, he is vilified in the press. When he plays well -- which is the majority of the time these days -- there's no mention of his successful rehab and re-adaption after a really serious injury.

It's either he is mentioned as an aside to the lead story of whatever LeBron is doing or being crushed if things don't go as smoothly.


There are several holes in his game right now. We can sit here and list them ad nauseum, but I think most people understand. He's also really freaking good a lot of the time. For the three weeks prior to the Clippers game, he was averaging 25/6 on 51% shooting.

I don't remember seeing any threads about it or David Haynes going out of his way to praise him in a way that he knew would get national recognition the way that he decided to bash him today.

[AintNoSunshine]

To my eyes it's not an issue of how many shots he took or how little assist he gets, but the fact that he constantly try to play one-on-one in the game where he's showing off his ball handling and try to dance on people. I had to admit he's pretty good at this but it's also quite obvious he killed the team's offensive flow because of it. And his teammates are standing there watching him do it because they know the pass isn't coming. It will be beneficial if everyone on the team would just keep the ball moving. If you have a shot then take it if not give it up. Kyrie's ability to score one-on-one would be very helpful when the offense breaks down but a lot of times when I watch he's fallen in love of showing off his handling even early on the shot clock and I think that's what this report is referring to.

[kamil]

So lebron's 4 seconds left on the clock pass outs are ok?

Yeah, because you know he's not going to make it himself.

[NattyPButter]

This thread is funny...ppl who didn't watch the Cavs before Lebron calling Kyrie a playmaker and great passer is just laughable. He doesn't know how to pass well. He picks up his dribble to pass a lot and when he's not doing that he does predicable bounce passes. I'm always scratching my head when he does bounce passes to 7fters...like WTF. Kyrie fits in with Lebron very well because it's Lebron's job to play playmaker and Kyrie's job to shoot. Cavs really don't play positional bb. Kyrie is a SG while out there on the floor with Lebron.

[Lebron23]

Yeah, because you know he's not going to make it himself.

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lebronshot12.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-12-2015/wuxGq5.gif

[Da KO King]

To my eyes it's not an issue of how many shots he took or how little assist he gets, but the fact that he constantly try to play one-on-one in the game where he's showing off his ball handling and try to dance on people. I had to admit he's pretty good at this but it's also quite obvious he killed the team's offensive flow because of it. And his teammates are standing there watching him do it because they know the pass isn't coming. It will be beneficial if everyone on the team would just keep the ball moving. If you have a shot then take it if not give it up. Kyrie's ability to score one-on-one would be very helpful when the offense breaks down but a lot of times when I watch he's fallen in love of showing off his handling even early on the shot clock and I think that's what this report is referring to.
This right here sums it up. The problem is he holds onto the ball too long. Ball stoppers slow down your pace and forces your team into tougher shots.

[34-24 Footwork]

Good discussion in this thread. I started this thread to see what people's thoughts were. The thing is that....we have to hold LBJ to the same standards as we do Kyrie as far as being a "ball stopper" and etc.

It's also important to note that LBJ gets assists non-conventionally, as well...but it works. So it's hard to compare them.

[pauk]

So lebron's 4 seconds left on the clock pass outs are ok?

The difference is the outcome/result... Lebron makes the right plays, he converts buckets much more efficiently while creating for others, he has always full trust on his teammates... what that translated to during his career im sure you are aware of.... but if you are gona ballhog with intent to chuck stupid shots for 48 mins then you better be converting, then you will even be getting a pass/greenlight/trust... see Curry... Kyrie thinks he is that good scorer/shooter, even better than he is, MUCH better... thats the problem... because many missed shots & denied PG duty (passing) is many wasted offensive possessions that could have been successful instead with a different mindset/decision making and ofcourse talent/skill...

[PP34Deuce]

Good discussion in this thread. I started this thread to see what people's thoughts were. The thing is that....we have to hold LBJ to the same standards as we do Kyrie as far as being a "ball stopper" and etc.

It's also important to note that LBJ gets assists non-conventionally, as well...but it works. So it's hard to compare them.

I think the article is just trying to stir things up. I don't believe this cleveland team has a problem with each other. I believe Lebron is trying to push Kyrie and doesn't quite know how to push him. He was the young guy first time in Cleveland and had Wade as a guy that would hold him accountable.

Kyrie has a sick handle and sometimes he just showboats and uses it too much. Steph Curry used to be like that and I see Kyrie's next steps as playing similar to curry.

[miggyme1]

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lebronshot12.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-12-2015/wuxGq5.gif


TWO EXAMPLES 6 YEARS APART. that's THE BEST YOU CAN DO???

[moongaze]

Using him as a shooting guard is a dumb idea. You're basically taking away his strongest weapon of dribbling and being able to penetrate and create shots due to it.

[miggyme1]

Using him as a shooting guard is a dumb idea. You're basically taking away his strongest weapon of dribbling and being able to penetrate and create shots due to it.


shooting guards aren't allowed to dribble? you learn something new everyday. lol

[Blue&Orange]

Dude had 18 shots and zero assists at halftime. Ended up with 1 assist on a cursory kick out to KLove for a 3.
That's called a Lebron assist.

[moongaze]

shooting guards aren't allowed to dribble? you learn something new everyday. lol

It's much different as a pg vs SG. As a pg he works from the top of the floor as the initiating ball handler. He's able to set up his attack better. As a SG he's playing off ball and can't initiate attack and he doesn't have the ball in his hands, which is his best attribute. Irving can be effective as an attacking pg like prime Tony Parker. Moving him to SG is strippubg that ball handling and penetration from the head of the offense. Plus, in lebrons offense hell vbe relegated to a spot up shooter

[PP34Deuce]

The CAVS are dangerous when...

Lebron picks his spots offensively (making his jumpers)
Love gets strong post position and becomes active
Kyrie penetrates to the basket and draws fouls.

All 3 are stubborn to an extent but that recipe is what gets them to the 'ship. Kyrie using his dribble to penetrate to the basket is dangerous when he uses it. He bogs the offense down with 15 seconds of fancy dribbling and a jumper.

[TheMarkMadsen]

That's called a Lebron assist.


yeah seriously, the irony of a lebron fan disparaging kick out passes to three point shooters as if that isn't Lebron's main form of play-making :oldlol: :oldlol:

[moongaze]

The CAVS are dangerous when...

Lebron picks his spots offensively (making his jumpers)
Love gets strong post position and becomes active
Kyrie penetrates to the basket and draws fouls.

All 3 are stubborn to an extent but that recipe is what gets them to the 'ship. Kyrie using his dribble to penetrate to the basket is dangerous when he uses it. He bogs the offense down with 15 seconds of fancy dribbling and a jumper.


I haven't seen that much cavs games this year. Last year I watched all but a handful and I never got the impression that Kyrie held the ball too long. Holding the ball too long is why lebron averages so many assists. Kyrie seems to be to move the ball around more and that's why he has so many secondary assists. I agree with your assessment of when the cavs are most dangerous

[Bankaii]

I haven't seen that much cavs games this year. Last year I watched all but a handful and I never got the impression that Kyrie held the ball too long. Holding the ball too long is why lebron averages so many assists. Kyrie seems to be to move the ball around more and that's why he has so many secondary assists. I agree with your assessment of when the cavs are most dangerous
Anyone that watches the Cavs knows that Kyrie keeps the ball for far too long, usually resulting in a bad pull up.

He holds it even more so than Lebron does.

[moongaze]

Anyone that watches the Cavs knows that Kyrie keeps the ball for far too long, usually resulting in a bad pull up.

He holds it even more so than Lebron does.

Disagree. Like I said I watched all but a handful of the gAmes last year. Lebron is the one that doesn't move the ball around. It results in his assist numbers looking higher bbecause he's usually the last one making a pass to a shooter. What I've seen is that Kyrie actually tries to run the offense and pass the ball around more. His assist numbers thus aren't as high as ball dominant guards like cp3 and wall. Unless things completely changed from last year, this is how I remember their play.

[Bankaii]

Disagree. Like I said I watched all but a handful of the gAmes last year. Lebron is the one that doesn't move the ball around. It results in his assist numbers looking higher bbecause he's usually the last one making a pass to a shooter. What I've seen is that Kyrie actually tries to run the offense and pass the ball around more. His assist numbers thus aren't as high as ball dominant guards like cp3 and wall. Unless things completely changed from last year, this is how I remember their play.
I'm sorry dude but you have no idea what you're talking about.

1) Last year isn't this year. They aren't running the same system, although it's not much different.

2) Kyrie is ball dominant. His assists aren't high because he doesn't pass, simple as that. He dribbles out the shot clock trying to create for himself and usually ends up taking an ill advised shot. CP3 is ball dominant but he does so to create for his teammates.

3) Lebron hasn't stood around with the ball nearly as much this year.
Many of his assists come from swings or drive and kicks.
Lebron scores within the team, Kyrie scores at the detriment of his teammates at times.

[Genaro]

Kyrie is doing fine lately (after he get back to form after the injury.) People have to understand that nowadays a PG isn't only responsible for setting up everybody. You don't have to be a John Stockton type of player to get the job done. It doesn't matter if you win a game making 40 points or getting 15 ast.
But of course the media has to criticize Lebron's teammates so when the team do well or lose they can push the whole "Lebron plays alone" mantra. Love and Kyrie are the scapegoats. Disgusting.

[Bankaii]

Kyrie is doing fine lately (after he get back to form after the injury.) People have to understand that nowadays a PG isn't only responsible for setting up everybody. You don't have to be a John Stockton type of player to get the job done. It doesn't matter if you win a game making 40 points or getting 15 ast.
But of course the media has to criticize Lebron's teammates so when the team do well or lose they can push the whole "Lebron plays alone" mantra. Love and Kyrie are the scapegoats. Disgusting.
No one is saying Kyrie had to be Stockton, but he's an underwhelming passer for his abilities and amazing handles.

When you look at the elite scoring PGs, they're all still great facilitators.
Curry, CP3, Lillard, Westbrook, Lowry, hell even IT is a better passer.

I love Kyrie and his game fits perfectly with Lebron as the main facilitator.
But when Lebron comes off the court Kyrie should be the best playmaker for his teammates, not Delly.

[moongaze]

I'm sorry dude but you have no idea what you're talking about.

1) Last year isn't this year. They aren't running the same system, although it's not much different.

2) Kyrie is ball dominant. His assists aren't high because he doesn't pass, simple as that. He dribbles out the shot clock trying to create for himself and usually ends up taking an ill advised shot. CP3 is ball dominant but he does so to create for his teammates.

3) Lebron hasn't stood around with the ball nearly as much this year.
Many of his assists come from swings or drive and kicks.
Lebron scores within the team, Kyrie scores at the detriment of his teammates at times.

If he doesnt pass why is he so high in secondary assists? His assists aren't high because one he is a scoring pg, two he's not a ball dominant guard that is usually the main guy lookkng to get the assist.Tony Parker has nearly identical career assist numbers but no one says that he doesn't pass especially since he's led one of the MOT unselfish and beat passing teams for decade.

[Bankaii]

If he doesnt pass why is he so high in secondary assists? His assists aren't high because one he is a scoring pg, two he's not a ball dominant guard that is usually the main guy lookkng to get the assist.Tony Parker has nearly identical career assist numbers but no one says that he doesn't pass especially since he's led one of the MOT unselfish and beat passing teams for decade.
Kyrie IS ball dominant.
He holds the ball longer than Lebron, he dribbles the ball more than Lebron. Yet he scores less points and had less assists.

No one is asking Kyrie to lead the league in assists, but if you watch the games he overdribbling trying to create for himself and rarely hits the open man. That's just the truth, he's not as good of a passer as he should be.
Delly is the main play maker when Lebron is out, that's sad.

And TP plays within a system that doesn't allow him to be as ball dominant. Every time he over dribbles both the fans and Pop call him out on it.

[stalkerforlife]

I saw Lue telling him to pass the ball in a game and he just kept shooting.

Some dudes, like Westbrook and Irving, don't understand that getting lesser role players into a rhythm is crucial.

[RedBlackAttack]

He holds the ball longer than Lebron, he dribbles the ball more than Lebron. Yet he scores less points and had less assists.
You realize there are statistics which track these things, right?

LeBron uses more possessions than Kyrie does. That isn't disputable. In fact, Kyrie's career high usage season would be the lowest in the last 11 years for LBJ.

And, that was when Kyrie was playing on a team where the second best offensive player was Dion Waiters. He still didn't have the usage rate of LBJ.

[navy]

You realize there are statistics which track these things, right?

LeBron uses more possessions than Kyrie does. That isn't disputable. In fact, Kyrie's career high usage season would be the lowest in the last 11 years for LBJ.

And, that was when Kyrie was playing on a team where the second best offensive player was Dion Waiters. He still didn't have the usage rate of LBJ.
Literally nothing wrong with that.

The problem isnt a Lebron vs Kyrie problem. Those two are fine and the article alludes to that. The problem really occurs when Lebron is on the bench or when Lebron doesnt play. Kyrie reverts to streetball mentality that since Lebron isnt on the court he has to be the one that scores. I dont think it's that big of a problem since Lebron will see a large time on the court anyways and will have a high usage like you posted.

But Kyrie shouldnt play like this is a team headed to lottery and he's gotta get his. He just needs to pull it back just a little when he is alone on the court. Sort of a catch 22, since the Cavs clearly encourage him to be that guy when he is alone on the court. But he just needs to reign it in a tad.

[RedBlackAttack]

Literally nothing wrong with that.

The problem isnt a Lebron vs Kyrie problem. Those two are fine and the article alludes to that. The problem really occurs when Lebron is on the bench or when Lebron doesnt play. Kyrie reverts to streetball mentality that since Lebron isnt on the court he has to be the one that scores. I dont think it's that big of a problem since Lebron will see a large time on the court anyways and will have a high usage like you posted.

But Kyrie shouldnt play like this is a team headed to lottery and he's gotta get his. He just needs to pull it back just a little when he is alone on the court. Sort of a catch 22, since the Cavs clearly encourage him to be that guy when he is alone on the court. But he just needs to reign it in a tad.
All of this is fair, but the thing is, I feel like he's been doing fine over the last 25 games or so. That's why I just hate to see overreactions after one or two games. That Haynes article was over-the-top and made an issue out of something that isn't there.

The guy is averaging 24/5 in 33 minutes on 50% shooting over the last 25 or so. You don't go this far in calling a guy whose playing on that level out because he had a 1 assist game.

[navy]

All of this is fair, but the thing is, I feel like he's been doing fine over the last 25 games or so. That's why I just hate to see overreactions after one or two games. That Haynes article was over-the-top and made an issue out of something that isn't there.

The guy is averaging 24/5 in 33 minutes on 50% shooting over the last 25 or so. You don't go this far in calling a guy whose playing on that level out because he had a 1 assist game.
Yeah, I think people tend to overreact to the Cavs as a whole. Lebron media effet. Obviously a reporter took a look at Kyries stat sheet for the game and had to make a story.

But it is something he needs to work on. Really when the Cavs move away from Lebron and more to Kyrie.

[Bankaii]

You realize there are statistics which track these things, right?

LeBron uses more possessions than Kyrie does. That isn't disputable. In fact, Kyrie's career high usage season would be the lowest in the last 11 years for LBJ.

And, that was when Kyrie was playing on a team where the second best offensive player was Dion Waiters. He still didn't have the usage rate of LBJ.
Kyrie gets 5 less touches and has 2% less usage rate than Bron. And that's including the fact that he plays less minutes and the games where he was on minute restriction coming back from his injury.

The fact remains that he still has a higher time of possession and dribbles per touch than Lebron.
He is more dominant than Lebron. And despite him being more dominant he still averages less points and assists per touch than Lebron.

For a PG he's a below average facilitator.
I'm sure you've watched more Cavs games than anyone on the site. You should know better than anyone that Kyrie has to improve his court vision and passing if the Cavs want to win a chip.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Kyrie's just a better shooting, less athletic version of Steve Francis. Even Steve Francis ball hogging ass passed the ball more than Kyrie.

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Kyrie gets 5 less touches and has 2% less usage rate than Bron. And that's including the fact that he plays less minutes and the games where he was on minute restriction coming back from his injury.

The fact remains that he still has a higher time of possession and dribbles per touch than Lebron.
He is more dominant than Lebron. And despite him being more dominant he still averages less points and assists per touch than Lebron.

For a PG he's a below average facilitator.
I'm sure you've watched more Cavs games than anyone on the site. You should know better than anyone that Kyrie has to improve his court vision and passing if the Cavs want to win a chip.

Wow. So all the pressure is on KYRIE all of a sudden, huh? Lol. Welp, that didn't take long.

[Bankaii]

Wow. So all the pressure is on KYRIE all of a sudden, huh? Lol. Welp, that didn't take long.
The trolls on here are just dumb, not even funny.

Where did I say it was all on Kyrie?
Kyrie is a key piece, obviously him playing up to his potential is important. Along with the role players playing good 3&D, and Love stepping up in big games, and most importantly Lebron getting his jumper back.

You're so obsessed with Lebron you bring him up in posts not even mentioning him. Pathetic.

[PsychoBe]

you should start expressing frustration for his lack of defense first :oldlol:

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The trolls on here are just dumb, not even funny.

Where did I say it was all on Kyrie?
Kyrie is a key piece, obviously him playing up to his potential is important. Along with the role players playing good 3&D, and Love stepping up in big games, and most importantly Lebron getting his jumper back.

You're so obsessed with Lebron you bring him up in posts not even mentioning him. Pathetic.


Didn't even have his name in my most, Caitlyn. Learn how to read, little boy.

Whats pathetic is that the same thing that Kyrie is about to get demonized in the same fashion as Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen and etc. The "not good enough" cycle. You're right on cue. Don't stop.

[knicksman]

Kyrie is the better scorer yet bran wants to be the first option. And worse, he wants to be the pg too of the team. Theres no role left for kyrie. This is why statpadders like bran, oscar are losers coz they are selfish. While the greatest winners(magic, duncan, russell) have the least stats in the top 10.

Leadership is making your teammates happy/better. Only insecures care about stats. Jordan/curry are better passers than draymond/pippen yet they let them be the assist leaders.

Its obvious that these bran stans are just stat nerds and have never played ball in their lives