Playoff runs as good as 2009 LeBron? (minimum 10 games)

[Ranked 12th]

List some playoff runs as good as 2009 LeBron:

Stats: 35.3 ppg 9.1 rebs 7.3 assists on 51% shooting


He had a PER of 37.4 (Highest in NBA History)

[Akrazotile]

List some playoff runs as good as 2009 LeBron:

Stats: 35.3 ppg 9.1 rebs 7.3 assists on 51% shooting


He had a PER of 37.4 (Highest in NBA History)


http://www.delightfulknowledge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/o-face.png

[SouBeachTalents]

1977 Kareem

35/18/4/2/4 on 61%

[G.U.S.]

Not to go off topic but many also feel those playoffs was the official passing of the torch from Duncan to Lebron.... :bowdown: :applause:

[Ranked 12th]

1977 Kareem

35/18/4/2/4 on 61%

What are those stats pace-adjusted?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Boasting about playoff runs where his team was the overwhelming favorite to make the finals but lost in the second round instead..

Yikes.

[Ranked 12th]

Boasting about playoff runs where his team was the overwhelming favorite to make the finals but lost in the second round instead..

Yikes.

It was the Conference Finals




And I'd saying making the Conference Finals with Mo Williams and Delonte West is better than almost taking Dwight Howard and Steve Nash straight to the Lottery.


Yikes.

[Akrazotile]

Not to go off topic but many also feel those playoffs was the official passing of the torch from Duncan to Lebron.... :bowdown: :applause:

Thats fair IMO.

MJ to Shaq to Duncan to Bron.


Of course, now Bron lookin like hes got no plans to let that mantle go for a long, long while :oldlol:

[qrich]

Elton Brand: 30/11/4 with a steal, 2.9 blocks on 58.4% shooting and only 2 turnovers :eek:

[Ranked 12th]

Sorry, I shouldn't have referenced Kobe's team in my previous post, forgive me I got off topic.




I really only expect Top 10 players to be in this discussion in terms of playoff dominance, don't know why I brought up Kobe's 2013 failure

[Gileraracer]

Still got raped. Definition of empty stats

[Dr Seuss]

lebron certainly puts up some godly stats, but his success rate has never been the best by doing so. hypothetical, had he focused less on doing EVERYTHING. and really honed in on being an unstoppable scoring monster, would he have had better success, in your opinion?

[SouBeachTalents]

lebron certainly puts up some godly stats, but his success rate has never been the best by doing so. hypothetical, had he focused less on doing EVERYTHING. and really honed in on being an unstoppable scoring monster, would he have had better success, in your opinion?

You wouldn't consider him a scoring machine as is? Dude averages 27 ppg for his career in the regular season, 28 ppg in the playoffs, has had multiple 30 ppg seasons, in the playoffs averaged 35 ppg in '09 and 30 ppg in '12, and averaged just shy of 40 ppg in the series mention in OP. There's literally only a handful of players in history who have been better scorers than LeBron

[Ranked 12th]

lebron certainly puts up some godly stats, but his success rate has never been the best by doing so. hypothetical, had he focused less on doing EVERYTHING. and really honed in on being an unstoppable scoring monster, would he have had better success, in your opinion?

So LeBron should have held back and let Mo williams take him to the championship? :oldlol:




Those Cavs teams were worse than the Sixers/ Kobe's 2006/07 Lakers talent wise.

Its a wonder they even went as far as they did.

[Dr Seuss]

You wouldn't consider him a scoring machine as is? Dude averages 27 ppg for his career in the regular season, 28 ppg in the playoffs, has had multiple 30 ppg seasons, in the playoffs averaged 35 ppg in '09 and 30 ppg in '12, and averaged just shy of 40 ppg in the series mention in OP. There's literally only a handful of players in history who have been better scorers than LeBron

no i absolutely do. but i mean, if he focused soley on that, instead of trying to monopolize the offense with scoring AND playmaking. he could easily be a 35 ppg player.

the league is full of PG's who can run an offense and get the ball where its needed. had he taken some of that pressure off him and used his out of this world athleticism to get position off ball and was constantly move off ball, hed be even harder to guard than he is.

[Dr Seuss]

So LeBron should have held back and let Mo williams take him to the championship? :oldlol:





no. hes not a playmaker. they paired him with lebron because hes a shooter and lebron had the playmaking title for his team, since forever. it was a hypothetical question asking if lebron wasnt the teams sole playmaker (yes hes very capable of it, but that doesnt meant you HAVE to make him do it), and became more a score first player and the team signed one of the leagues many pass friendly PGs, do you think hed have more team success

and what do you mean "have held back" my scenario has lebron looking to score every time down the court. hed be very capable of doing that if not expending energy on playmaking

[CAstill]

[QUOTE=Ranked 12th]So LeBron should have held back and let Mo williams take him to the championship? :oldlol:




Those Cavs teams were worse than the Sixers/ Kobe's 2006/07 Lakers talent wise.

They weren't worse than Kobe's teams in the mentioned years. Quit being delusional.

[ballinhun8]

2009 was a good playoff run??


Hmmmm seemed pretty empty

[Ranked 12th]

2009 was a good playoff run??


Hmmmm seemed pretty empty

Like the Bulls playoff hopes when facing lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

2009 was a good playoff run??


Hmmmm seemed pretty empty

Just because they didn't win the title doesn't mean LeBron wasn't phenomenal in '09. Would you say pre '91 Jordan didn't have any good playoff runs either?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Just because they didn't win the title doesn't mean LeBron wasn't phenomenal in '09. Would you say pre '91 Jordan didn't have any good playoff runs either?


this thread is insinuating that this Lebron run is one of the GOAT playoff runs..

do you see any Jordan fans bringing up non championship playoff runs and claiming that they were some of the best of all time?

realize what thread your in and the context in which this idea is being presented

Nobody in their right mind is going to take a playoff run that didn't even get the finals over the numerous playoff runs of great players who not only put up great stats, but also led their teams to titles as-well..

[Ranked 12th]

this thread is insinuating that this Lebron run is one of the GOAT playoff runs..

do you see any Jordan fans bringing up non championship playoff runs and claiming that they were some of the best of all time?

realize what thread your in and the context in which this idea is being presented

Nobody in their right mind is going to take a playoff run that didn't even get the finals over the numerous playoff runs of great players who not only put up great stats, but also led their teams to titles as-well..

So should Kobe's scoring accomplishments from 2006-2007 be invalid because he did it on a 45 win team that lost in the 1st round?






Nobody in their right mind is going to take a regular season where a player led his team to 45 wins and lost in the 1st round over the regular seasons of other great players.



So noone should count Kobe's 81 points, 63 points etc, it shouldn't matter :confusedshrug:

[aj1987]

Boasting about playoff runs where his team was the overwhelming favorite to make the finals but lost in the second round instead..

Yikes.
The Cav's made the ECF, retard. Not worse than when Chokebe lost the Finals shooting 34% with prime Shaq on the squad shooting 63%.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The Cav's made the ECF, retard. Not worse than when Chokebe lost the Finals shooting 34% with prime Shaq on the squad shooting 63%.


who is talking about Kobe? Why are you always bringing up Kobe?

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[JT123]

The Cav's made the ECF, retard. Not worse than when Chokebe lost the Finals shooting 34% with prime Shaq on the squad shooting 63%.
but but he was distracted cause everyone found out he raped a girl and wasn't nice to him! :cry: :cry:

[Akrazotile]

do you see any Jordan fans bringing up non championship playoff runs and claiming that they were some of the best of all time?

realize what thread your in and the context in which this idea is being presented

Nobody in their right mind is going to take a playoff run that didn't even get the finals over the numerous playoff runs of great players who not only put up great stats, but also led their teams to titles as-well..


No but I see Kobe fans do that all the time with the playoff-winless seasons of his prime.

[TheMarkMadsen]

No but I see Kobe fans do that all the time with the playoff-winless seasons of his prime.


If you're looking at the overall, entire season, you have to include both playoffs and regular seasons.

but..

If you're looking to make an argument for the regular season, just the regular season, then you don't have to consider the playoffs.

If you're looking to make an argument for the playoffs, just the playoffs, then you don't have to consider the regular season


I don't know why you guys have to act like that is so hard to grasp, it's really common sense.

[aj1987]

who is talking about Kobe? Why are you always bringing up Kobe?
Dumbass, you literally just said that the '09 Cavs lost in the ECSF. :oldlol:

I guess I can't expect anything more from a Chuckbe turd.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe Kobe Kobe Kobe


well said

[Hey Yo]

The playoffs are considered games played before the Finals.

If you're going to include the Finals, then the reference to be used is postseason.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The playoffs are considered games played before the Finals.

If you're going to include the Finals, then the reference to be used is postseason.


so the finals aren't part of the playoffs now?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Hey Yo]

No...they're part of the postseason.

The playoffs are played before the Finals. They have a playoff to see who gets there.

[aj1987]

Denial denial denial
:cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

No...they're part of the postseason.

The playoffs are played before the Finals. They have a playoff to see who gets there.


https://media.giphy.com/media/xu1rPrOs0xIR2/giphy.gif

[Hey Yo]

See....you learn something new everyday.

You're welcome.

[TheMarkMadsen]

See....you learn something new everyday.

You're welcome.

No, I already knew you were dumb as ****

[IllegalD]

See....you learn something new everyday.

You're welcome.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_playoffs

The National Basketball Association (NBA) playoffs are a best-of-seven elimination tournament among 16 teams in the Eastern Conference and Western Conference (called divisions, pre-1970), ultimately deciding the winner of the NBA Finals.

F*cking retard LeBron Stanleys really come up with the most creative ways to try to prop up his fickle legacy. :facepalm

[aj1987]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_playoffs

The National Basketball Association (NBA) playoffs are a best-of-seven elimination tournament among 16 teams in the Eastern Conference and Western Conference (called divisions, pre-1970), ultimately deciding the winner of the NBA Finals.

F*cking retard LeBron Stanleys really come up with the most creative ways to try to prop up his fickle legacy. :facepalm
:roll:

Not really. Most people consider that 13 seasons of LeBron >>>>> 20 seasons of Chokebe. :cheers:

[Hey Yo]

No, I already knew you were dumb as ****
So why is the term "Finals" even used if they're part of the playoffs? Why not just keep saying "playoffs?"

Why is the term "postseason" used? Maybe because it refers to EVERYTHING that happens AFTER the reg. season is over??

Don't get mad at the teacher, Chico.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:roll:

Not really. Most people consider that 13 seasons of LeBron >>>>> 20 seasons of Chokebe. :cheers:


what does that have to do with what he posted, like at all..

****ing weirdo :oldlol: :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

So why is the term "Finals" even used if they're part of the playoffs? Why not just keep saying "playoffs?"

Why is the term "postseason" used? Maybe because it refers to EVERYTHING that happens AFTER the reg. season is over??

Don't get mad at the teacher, Chico.

gonna put on my Hey Yo dumb **** hat on

"so why is the term 'second round' used if they're part of the playoffs? Why not just keep saying "playoffs?"

:hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[IllegalD]

gonna put on my Hey Yo dumb **** hat on

"so why is the term 'second round' used if they're part of the playoffs? Why not just keep saying "playoffs?"

:hammerhead: :hammerhead:


:applause:

[aj1987]

what does that have to do with what he posted, like at all..

****ing weirdo :oldlol: :oldlol:
It's actually quite difficult to explant everything to you Chokebe stans. Ugh!

[Hey Yo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_playoffs

The National Basketball Association (NBA) playoffs are a best-of-seven elimination tournament among 16 teams in the Eastern Conference and Western Conference (called divisions, pre-1970), ultimately deciding the winner of the NBA Finals.

F*cking retard LeBron Stanleys really come up with the most creative ways to try to prop up his fickle legacy. :facepalm
Has nothing to do with propping up.

There's a difference between the playoffs and the Finals. Not making past the 2nd round "of the playoffs" is worse than not making "the Finals"

When asking about postseason stats.... that refers to a player who got to and played in, the Finals.

[Hey Yo]

gonna put on my Hey Yo dumb **** hat on

"so why is the term 'second round' used if they're part of the playoffs? Why not just keep saying "playoffs?"

:hammerhead: :hammerhead:
ummmmmmm......so one can know how far the playoffs are along

:cletus: derp derp

[TheMarkMadsen]

ummmmmmm......so one can know how far the playoffs are along

:cletus: derp derp

exactly, that is why the final series of the playoffs are called the finals


http://i.imgur.com/rfFWukr.gif

[3ball]

.
Lebron achieves his stats lowering his teammates' PPG and APG.

Specifically, he turns them into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking) and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing):



................................................AP G, ASSIST %....... ASSISTED RATE

Wade before Lebron (04'-10'):..... 6.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 34.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................29.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting) <---- links to nba.com data
Wade with... Lebron (11'-14'):..... 4.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 25.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)..................40.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Irving before Lebron (12'-14'):.... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game), 33.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced)..................31.9% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:shooting)
Irving with... Lebron.. (2015):..... 5.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 25.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................32.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Bosh before Lebron (04'-10'):...... 2.2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 10.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................55.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting)
Bosh with... Lebron (11'-14'):...... 1.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 8.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced) ...................71.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Love before Lebron (09'-14'):...... 2.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:per_game), 13.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:advanced)..................62.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:shooting)
Love with ...Lebron (15'-16'):...... 2.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 11.4% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................80.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Mo Will before Lebron (05'-08'):.. 5.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:per_game), 30.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:advanced)..................39.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2004-2008-sum:shooting)
Mo Will with... Lebron (09'-10'):.. 4.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:per_game), 22.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:advanced)..................47.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:shooting)


FYI...

Pippen with... Jordan 91'-93':...... 6.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game), 24.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced)
Pippen w/out Jordan 94'-95':...... 5.4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game), 23.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced)
Pippen with... Jordan 96'-98':...... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game), 25.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced)



Unfortunately, by reducing teammates to play-finishers, Lebron promotes a sophomoric brand of basketball that can't succeed against the best playoff teams, who invariably play a superior brand of basketball.. Guys like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw are tasked with MAKING PLAYS for the Spurs - they aren't just play-finishers like Shumpert and JR Smith (who are actually more talented).

Futhermore, the supporting cast's predictable play-finishing roles don't work against the best playoff teams, which causes them to routinely underperform and play undercapacity in the Finals (the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates played poorly when it mattered) - since Lebron's teammates play undercapacity against the best teams, the TEAM plays undercapacity/underperforms (i.e. losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or losing when it was 50/50 - 2014 Finals (http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_o r_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch .html)).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. It's because he employs a point guard style from the forward position - this adds a 2nd low-assisted, high time of possession player IN ADDITION to the existing point guard, which gives teammates less opportunity to assist and less time with the ball than other teams whose forwards have normal assisted rates and time of possession.

That's the difference between 2/6 and 6/6.. MJ got the most out of his teammates - he elevated teammates so the team played to full capacity and never lost as the favorite.. Otoh, Lebron reduces teammates to play-finishers, which leads to team underperformance and losing as the favorite.
.

[SouBeachTalents]

.
Lebron achieves his stats lowering his teammates' PPG and APG.

Specifically, he turns them into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking) and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing):



................................................AP G, ASSIST %....... ASSISTED RATE

Wade before Lebron (04'-10'):..... 6.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 34.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................29.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting) <---- links to nba.com data
Wade with... Lebron (11'-14'):..... 4.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 25.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)..................40.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Irving before Lebron (12'-14'):.... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game), 33.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced)..................31.9% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:shooting)
Irving with... Lebron.. (2015):..... 5.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 25.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................32.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Bosh before Lebron (04'-10'):...... 2.2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 10.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)..................55.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2004-2010-sum:shooting)
Bosh with... Lebron (11'-14'):...... 1.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 8.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced) ...................71.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:shooting)

Love before Lebron (09'-14'):...... 2.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:per_game), 13.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:advanced)..................62.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2009-2014-sum:shooting)
Love with ...Lebron (15'-16'):...... 2.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:per_game), 11.4% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:advanced)..................80.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#2015-2016-sum:shooting)

Mo Will before Lebron (05'-08'):.. 5.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:per_game), 30.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2005-2008-sum:advanced)..................39.2% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2004-2008-sum:shooting)
Mo Will with... Lebron (09'-10'):.. 4.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:per_game), 22.3% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:advanced)..................47.6% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#2009-2010-sum:shooting)


FYI...

Pippen with... Jordan 91'-93':...... 6.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game), 24.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced)
Pippen w/out Jordan 94'-95':...... 5.4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game), 23.7% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced)
Pippen with... Jordan 96'-98':...... 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game), 25.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced)



Unfortunately, by reducing teammates to play-finishers, Lebron promotes a sophomoric brand of basketball that can't succeed against the best playoff teams, who invariably play a superior brand of basketball.. Guys like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw are tasked with MAKING PLAYS for the Spurs - they aren't just play-finishers like Shumpert and JR Smith (who are actually more talented).

Futhermore, the supporting cast's predictable play-finishing roles don't work against the best playoff teams, which causes them to routinely underperform and play undercapacity in the Finals (the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates played poorly when it mattered) - since Lebron's teammates play undercapacity against the best teams, the TEAM plays undercapacity/underperforms (i.e. losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or losing when it was 50/50 - 2014 Finals (http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_o r_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch .html)).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. This is easily explained with more stats (http://www.basketballforum.com/14269857-post8.html).

That's the difference between 2/6 and 6/6.. MJ got the most out of his teammates - he elevated teammates so the team played to full capacity and never lost as the favorite.. Otoh, Lebron reduces teammates to play-finishers, which leads to team underperformance and losing as the favorite.

I think you've made this same exact post 2 dozen times

[3ball]

.
Imagine if your favorite player scored 5-7 more ppg in the playoffs on better efficiency across the board - that's what MJ did in comparison to Lebron:


Career Playoffs - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Playoffs - PER 100 POSSESSIONS:

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Finals - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg


There's never been a number 1 option that scored 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring edge on superior efficiency is far more valuable than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) and 2.5 def rebound edge (MJ had more offensive rebounds).

Lebron's assist edge is particularly meaningless considering he achieves his assists by lowering his TEAMMATES' assists and playmaking, as the stats show in the previous post.

Furthermore, Jordan scored 10 more ppg than his 2nd option for every playoff series of his career AND led the team in passing (MJ led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49))... Lebron was never required to do that - he has several series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer.

[3ball]

I think you've made this same exact post 2 dozen times


It's very relevant to this thread because Lebron's teammates played undercapacity in the playoffs that year, so the TEAM played undercapacity and lost as the heavy favorite.

Lebron's teams have frequently played undercapacity because Lebron reduces his teammates' stats and forces them into a play-finishing role that can't succeed against the best playoff teams.

With Lebron making his teammates play undercapacity, the TEAM plays undercapacity and loses as the favorite, like they did each year during 2009-2011 playoffs.. It's all explained above.. :cheers:
.

[beastee]

3ball...I was waiting for you to bring logic and reason to this dumbass thread.

http://thesource.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/youtherealmvp-300x166.jpg

[Hey Yo]

exactly, that is why the final series of the playoffs are called the finals


http://i.imgur.com/rfFWukr.gif
So why do you Kobe stans only refer to how well Kobe played in the playoffs against the WC.... but don't want to talk about just his Finals numbers against the East?

How come you Kobe stans always bring up LeBron's Finals numbers.... but never talk about just his playoff numbers?

If LeBron or Kobe gets to the Finals and loses.....do people say "they choked in the playoffs?"....no they say "they choked in the Finals."

They're 2 separate things