Power-Forwards are not catalysts for winning.

[DoctorP]

I have noticed that the Power-Forward position is the most marginal position when it comes to having an elite player. Look at Aldridge, Bosh, Davis or dudes like a Malone or Kemp. These guys are complimentary and are good additions to a team but will rarely put a team over the top.

I guess what I am saying is having an elite 4 is no guarantee you will have a good team as opposed to having an elite 5,3,2 or 1.

A half-baked observation.

[Fire Colangelo]

Interest.... two of the more successful teams in recent memory were build around a power forward.

Spurs and Mavs

[DoctorP]

Interest.... two of the more successful teams in recent memory were build around a power forward.

Spurs and Mavs

I was thinking about Duncan too, but he was more of a 5, right?

Dirk is the anomaly and you are right about him.

[navy]

Most great players can play multiple positions.

[ArbitraryWater]

this is dumb as hell

[90sgoat]

Except for the 5/Center position, which Duncan really is, there's no other position which really can be said to put you over the top. The center position was and has been until the last couple years, the primary prediction for success.

Besides, MJ skewed a lot of stats being as dominant as he was. Without MJ chalk up 3 championships for power forwards Malone and Barkley.

If we go really far back and look at what tasks each position had, the power forward was the garbage man, rebounding, setting hard screens, tip ins and put backs. The center regardless of size would be expected to be a better scorer than the power forward.

[SchrOEder]

Ad??????!?!??? Malone?????? Aldrige??

[Wade's Rings]

Dirk, KG, and Duncan have won 7 Rings since '99.

[DoctorP]

Ad??????!?!??? Malone?????? Aldrige??

Won nothing.

Malone had Stockton. AD's team sucks and Aldridge has been easily replaced.

**** your question marks.

[fiddy]

Dirk, KG, and Duncan have won 7 Rings since '99.
Kobe and Wade got 8

[DoctorP]

Except for the 5/Center position, which Duncan really is, there's no other position which really can be said to put you over the top. The center position was and has been until the last couple years, the primary prediction for success.

Besides, MJ skewed a lot of stats being as dominant as he was. Without MJ chalk up 3 championships for power forwards Malone and Barkley.

If we go really far back and look at what tasks each position had, the power forward was the garbage man, rebounding, setting hard screens, tip ins and put backs. The center regardless of size would be expected to be a better scorer than the power forward.

True.

Barkley couldnt do anything as the main man on the Sixers. Played third-fiddle in Houston.

[SouBeachTalents]

Dirk, KG, and Duncan have won 7 Rings since '99.

6 times as their teams best player too ('07 & '08 included), arguably all 7 depending on how you feel about Duncan in 2014

[DoctorP]

6 times as their teams best player too ('07 & '08 included), arguably all 7 depending on how you feel about Duncan in 2014

Duncan is a center. Garnett 2nd/3rd fiddle.

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan is a center. Garnett 2nd/3rd fiddle.

In '08? Preposterous statement. Pierce would have an argument, but imo KG was their best player in the regular season and run to the Finals

[Black and White]

Duncan is a center. Garnett 2nd/3rd fiddle.

KG was the best player on the C's that year, don't let the FMVP award fool you

[DoctorP]

In '08? Preposterous statement. Pierce would have an argument, but imo KG was their best player in the regular season and run to the Finals

Still, part of a big 3.


I feel if I got an elite player I would want them at the 5, 2 or 3. 1 and 4 can be complimentary.

[SouBeachTalents]

Still, part of a big 3.


I feel if I got an elite player I would want them at the 5, 2 or 3. 1 and 4 can be complimentary.

Why is the 3 any better? Who besides LeBron has won at the 3? Anybody since Bird?

[DoctorP]

KG was the best player on the C's that year, don't let the FMVP award fool you

All right. Fair enough KG, Dirk. Fine. The position is fine. Although why do I feel that with Aldridge , AD, Bosh and Love as the main-men I wouldn't go anywhere unless my team was stacked?

[DoctorP]

Why is the 3 any better? Who besides LeBron has won at the 3? Anybody since Bird?

Let's see... Grant Hill, Pippen? Maybe you are right about the three.

Well, Paul George, Durant...

[ArbitraryWater]

Won nothing.

Malone had Stockton. AD's team sucks and Aldridge has been easily replaced.

**** your question marks.

Who cares.. Malone and Barkley were the most prominent 90s players after MJ/Hakeem... two PFs came next.

Yeah Aldridge is overrated, he's always been, this has very little to do with the PF position, but instead his game. This is just a weird, weird thread.

[Fallen Angel]

Draymond Green?

[ArbitraryWater]

Let's see... Grant Hill, Pippen? Maybe you are right about the three.

Well, Paul George, Durant...

okay, so neither 3...

if I wanna win, I want a 2, or 5... 1, 3 and 4 is complimentary...

But wait, MJ was like the only scoring champion/title leader ever, he, 06 Wade and 09 Kobe, besides that, no 2 has ever even led a title team in history :eek:

So, I want a 5... 1-4 is complimentary...

am I doing this right? just not a well thought out thread mate

[DoctorP]

Who cares.. Malone and Barkley were the most prominent 90s players after MJ/Hakeem... two PFs came next.

Yeah Aldridge is overrated, he's always been, this has very little to do with the PF position, but instead his game. This is just a weird, weird thread.


I guess Im just wrong then. PFs can indeed be a main cog in a winning team. With the success of the Heat and Blazers without Aldridge/Bosh and the disappointment that is the Pelicans I started wondering otherwise but perhaps these players are just not that great to begin with.

[Black and White]

All right. Fair enough KG, Dirk. Fine. The position is fine. Although why do I feel that with Aldridge , AD, Bosh and Love as the main-men I wouldn't go anywhere unless my team was stacked?

I think most of the players you named aren't traditional 1st options, except for Davis, they are all meant to be second options.

I can see the point you're trying to make.

[DoctorP]

okay, so neither 3...

if I wanna win, I want a 2, or 5... 1, 3 and 4 is complimentary...

But wait, MJ was like the only scoring champion/title leader ever, he, 06 Wade and 09 Kobe, besides that, no 2 has ever even led a title team in history :eek:

So, I want a 5... 1-4 is complimentary...

am I doing this right? just not a well thought out thread mate

thanks mr. obvious, i had mentioned it was half-baked to begin with :oldlol:

youre expecting genius on insidehoops?

thanks for playin.

[DoctorP]

**** it. It's all the same shit. If you get 2 top 10 players, regardless of position and have solid role players around them you can, more often than not, compete for a title.

[stephanieg]

For most of the 21st century so far the title team either had:

1. An elite PF
2. Shaq

Besides the others mentioned, Detroit won after they got Sheed. LA won after they got Gasol.

You can also think of great also rans like the Webber Kings or Amare on the Suns (imagine if he played D).

It'll be interesting to see if this keeps holding up if teams go smaller and smaller. LeBron playing PF is nice to have. The more teams play PnR, the more valuable a mobile big is since he can defend it - a guy like KG would be even more useful nowadays. Bosh was important because of that even when his jumper was broken and he was allergic to rebounds.

[CarlosBoozer]

Strech PF's are extremely important for championship teams bruv, they're almost required now a day just to space the floor and to bring out the bigger and slower bigs.

[Akrazotile]

Still, part of a big 3.


I feel if I got an elite player I would want them at the 5, 2 or 3. 1 and 4 can be complimentary.


This is retarded logic dude, no offense.

Just because MJ happened to be a shooting guard and Lebron happened to be a small forward, it does not mean these make the positions themselves more important. It's just coincidence that these two elite players happened to play those positions.

They could have easily listed MJ as a 1. They could have easily listed Bron as a 4. The fact that they played SG and SF doesn't make them somehow more valuable.

What was Kobe Bryant doing on his own without PF Pau Gasol? Nothing. Charles Barkley led a team to the finals and lost because they played a superior team with a superior player, but positions had nothing to do with it.

You're using the kind of logic they used to use saying "well, i see the sun start over here and end over there... so the sun is going around us!"

You're taking the results and just making up a story that fits it.

[DoctorP]

This is retarded logic dude, no offense.

Just because MJ happened to be a shooting guard and Lebron happened to be a small forward, it does not mean these make the positions themselves more important. It's just coincidence that these two elite players happened to play those positions.

They could have easily listed MJ as a 1. They could have easily listed Bron as a 4. The fact that they played SG and SF doesn't make them somehow more valuable.

What was Kobe Bryant doing on his own without PF Pau Gasol? Nothing. Charles Barkley led a team to the finals and lost because they played a superior team with a superior player, but positions had nothing to do with it.

You're using the kind of logic they used to use saying "well, i see the sun start over here and end over there... so the sun is going around us!"

You're taking the results and just making up a story that fits it.


youre too late just shut up :lol

[BasedTom]

I've been hoping for a while now that Blake would have a breakout year and start shitting on the league. But that hasn't happened yet, and the Clippers have seemed alright without him on most nights (though with this case I think it might be for a lot of factors as opposed to simply emptystatslol)

[Ranked 12th]

Neither are SGs, the last SG to win a championship as their teams best payer was Jordan.

[Black and White]

Neither are SGs, the last SG to win a championship as their teams best payer was Jordan.

Would have been Wade in 2011 if Bron hadn't choked.

[GOATJono]

Think we can all agree that Dirk is the anomaly due to his godly shooting and 40pt performance at 37-years old.

[aj1987]

Kobe and Wade got 8
:applause:

In a combined ~40 seasons played, KG and Dirk have 2 rings. The COMBINED top 5 greatest PF's, Timmy, KG, Dirk, Chuck, and Malone have fewer rings than Wade and Kobe.

[Wade's Rings]

Kobe and Wade got 8

:bowdown:


6 times as their teams best player too ('07 & '08 included), arguably all 7 depending on how you feel about Duncan in 2014

Exactly.

[moongaze]

I have noticed that the Power-Forward position is the most marginal position when it comes to having an elite player. Look at Aldridge, Bosh, Davis or dudes like a Malone or Kemp. These guys are complimentary and are good additions to a team but will rarely put a team over the top.

I guess what I am saying is having an elite 4 is no guarantee you will have a good team as opposed to having an elite 5,3,2 or 1.

A half-baked observation.

True, true. Only Duncan has won in a long time while being the main option at pf

[CavaliersFTW]

Titles won where the clear-cut best player on the team was a PF:


1955 Nats - PF Dolph Schayes

1958 Hawks - PF Bob Pettit

1999 Spurs - PF Tim Duncan

2003 Spurs - PF Tim Duncan

2005 Spurs - PF Tim Duncan

2011 Mavs - PF Dirk Nowitzki



(Duncan's other titles were won at center position)


Not to mention the innumerable other seasons where great teams got "close" to a title and had great winning records throughout the regular season and/or advanced into the playoffs - or that had title teams with the help of all-time great PF's (Such as Dave DeBusschere, Elvin Hayes, KG, or Pau Gasol).

Power Forward is really just a blanket term. Great players can come in any shape or size. And as such, can play any position to help put a team in title contention or greatly contribute to a winning record.

[G-train]

I have noticed that the Power-Forward position is the most marginal position when it comes to having an elite player. Look at Aldridge, Bosh, Davis or dudes like a Malone or Kemp. These guys are complimentary and are good additions to a team but will rarely put a team over the top.

I guess what I am saying is having an elite 4 is no guarantee you will have a good team as opposed to having an elite 5,3,2 or 1.

A half-baked observation.

Malone and Barkley are 2 of the top players ever, who led 2 very successful teams. Championships are not easily won, especially against a well coached outfit led by Michael Jordan.

[Gotterdammerung]

I doubt anybody has a legitimate argument in trying to deduce basketball logic from the history of the game, largely because those that succeeded, won titles and mvps, were more of the transcendent player than a prototype. Wilt, Shaq, no doubt great centers, are once every generation talents. A prototypical player may be an all-star, or even a hall of famer, but he does not guarantee championships by default.

Transcendent guys like Steph Curry or Magic Johnson break the rules of basketball logic. :oldlol:

[SCdac]

Too many great, winning PF's for this to be true. When KG joined Paul Pierce on the celtics they became an entirely different team. When Spurs drafted Duncan they became a much better team. When Dirk became an AS and MVP talent the Mavs finally won a championship. There's numerous examples. Of course there's busts and less-than-amazing players at PF too. But it's not like Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, or Andrew Bogut (who's a champion, but not exactly a transcendent player) are swimming in Finals MVP's. Even Dwight Howard is really flawed. Can't wait to see how Anthony Davis and other youngins turn out. Was a big Oden fan but he was ruined by injuries

[DoctorP]

I doubt anybody has a legitimate argument in trying to deduce basketball logic from the history of the game, largely because those that succeeded, won titles and mvps, were more of the transcendent player than a prototype. Wilt, Shaq, no doubt great centers, are once every generation talents. A prototypical player may be an all-star, or even a hall of famer, but he does not guarantee championships by default.

Transcendent guys like Steph Curry or Magic Johnson break the rules of basketball logic. :oldlol:


:applause:

[oarabbus]

I was thinking about Duncan too, but he was more of a 5, right?

Dirk is the anomaly and you are right about him.


Dirk is a ****ing legend. We've seen SGs, SFs, and C's will their team to a victory. But never really a PG or PF... except Dirk.

[houston]

bigs need guards/wings more than guard/wings need bigs.