the kobe assist - underrated?

[swagga]

why is the analytics community not taking the kobe assist into account?
seriously, it's a legit strategy to shoot a bad shot when you know your bigs have an advantage down low. because of that advantage (shaq / pau+bynum+odom) i think the efficiency per the total offensive trip is unfairly described when labeling the shot as a brick.

I've always wondered why stats people don't look into it more seriously, it's a high iq play if the context is right (shaq/pau/bynum/odom great position downlow with their defender coming to help on kobe), if the shot goes in then great, if not shaq/pau/bynum/odom have a great chance to put it back in.

[LoneyROY7]

How is it a good strategy if you have no idea of the ball's trajectory when you take a bad shot?

Instead of taking the bad shot, how about you give it to the big man positioned well down-low.

[HurricaneKid]

The Iverson/Kobe assist is largely a thing of the past as today's defenses have a front side defender and backside rebounder rather than just bringing over the big for help and leaving the backside open for the offensive rebound.

Some of the best stats are the ones that show a player's impact on the court rather than their personal stat lines.

[aquaadverse]

Kobe : just get the rebound. Do your job.

[Sakkreth]

How is it a good strategy if you have no idea of the ball's trajectory when you take a bad shot?

Instead of taking the bad shot, how about you give it to the big man positioned well down-low.

You don't understand basketball.
It's clearly better than just to pass to an open man. Every shot you don't take is a miss and if you somehow luckily hit that stupid shot you can make this face
http://i.imgur.com/o0Zqr4z.jpg
Also as we all know it's all about how many shots you take, not how many you make. Kobe by doing Kobe assist increases the chances of amount of fg team can take, sacrficing for the team like a true leader.

[feyki]

If their defender came help to Kobe , Kobe should pass the ball to the bigs :confusedshrug: .

[Mass Debator]

You don't understand basketball.
It's clearly better than just to pass to an open man. Every shot you don't take is a miss and if you somehow luckily hit that stupid shot you can make this face
http://i.imgur.com/o0Zqr4z.jpg
Also as we all know it's all about how many shots you take, not how many you make. Kobe by doing Kobe assist increases the chances of amount of fg team can take, sacrficing for the team like a true leader.
You can take 50 shots as a team and only make 20. I'll take the team that takes 40 shots and make 24 assuming that all of these are 2 pointers. It's more about total makes more than total attempts, but this all means nothing without the other context of the game like free throws and 3 pointers.

About the "Kobe assist", it's merely being consistent to your own game. Teammates can expect his next move which mean they can anticipate what to do next whether it results in positioning for an offensive rebound or leaking back on transition D. That's pretty much just team chemistry, and his fans just like to use the Kobe assist as a term to benefit him exclusively. Whether it's bad for the team or not, that's a different discussion. I definitely see how it can affect off-court chemistry in a negative way. That's what coaches are for.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Kobe has been trying to throw a lot of Kobe assists this year. Unfortunately his teammates have let him down. Poor Kobe.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Kobe has been trying to throw a lot of Kobe assists this year. Unfortunately his teammates have let him down. Poor Kobe.

:lol :lol

[imdaman99]

Well when you burn your defender and force the other team's big man to help, that leaves a teammate big man to get an easier offensive rebound :confusedshrug:

[Akrazotile]

why is the analytics community not taking the kobe assist into account?
seriously, it's a legit strategy to shoot a bad shot when you know your bigs have an advantage down low. because of that advantage (shaq / pau+bynum+odom) i think the efficiency per the total offensive trip is unfairly described when labeling the shot as a brick.

I've always wondered why stats people don't look into it more seriously, it's a high iq play if the context is right (shaq/pau/bynum/odom great position downlow with their defender coming to help on kobe), if the shot goes in then great, if not shaq/pau/bynum/odom have a great chance to put it back in.


You've forgotten about HOF big man Dwight Howard.

But the problem with making it a league-wide stat is, most players do not have the luxury of playing with as many talented big men as 12 does. It puts him at an advantage for these stats, and everyone else at a disadvantage.

[TheMarkMadsen]

bunch of stupid post as usual on ISH

The "Kobe assist" or whatever you want to call it is just when a player (with good touch) misses a shot gently off the rim making it easier for an offensive player standing under the basket to grab the board.

Instead of clanking it off and creating a long rebound which lowers the chance of grabbing an offensive board, these misses gently roll out off the rim making it easier to grab for the offense.

A lot of good shooters with good touch will miss lightly off the rim more times than clanking it and clanking it creates a longer distance for the ball to travel off the rim making it harder for the team on offense to grab the ball and keep the possession. This ins't rocket science.

[12th]

bunch of stupid post as usual on ISH

The "Kobe assist" or whatever you want to call it is just when a player (with good touch) misses a shot gently off the rim making it easier for an offensive player standing under the basket to grab the board.

Instead of clanking it off and creating a long rebound which lowers the chance of grabbing an offensive board, these misses gently roll out off the rim making it easier to grab for the offense.

A lot of good shooters with good touch will miss lightly off the rim more times than clanking it and clanking it creates a longer distance for the ball to travel off the rim making it harder for the team on offense to grab the ball and keep the possession. This ins't rocket science.

Lol @ "gently bouncing off rim"..

Aka bricking the most shots in NBA history with HOF 7 foot centers and power forwards there to bail you out

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lol @ "gently bouncing off rim"..

Aka bricking the most shots in NBA history with HOF 7 foot centers and power forwards there to bail you out


you know the difference between a good shooter missing and a bad shooter missing? Bad shooters usually clank their shit off the rim hard, creating a longer rebound.

Good shooters usually miss lightly, creating an easier rebound.

But you can't find that on bball reference so I wouldn't expect you to understand

You'd actually have to open the basement door if you wanted to research this

[SchrOEder]

you know the difference between a good shooter missing and a bad shooter missing? Bad shooters usually clank their shit off the rim hard, creating a longer rebound.

Good shooters usually miss lightly, creating an easier rebound.

But you can't find that on bball reference so I wouldn't expect you to understand

You'd actually have to open the basement door if you wanted to research this

what? seriously? do you mean the shooters bounce?

[TheMarkMadsen]

what? seriously? do you mean the shooters bounce?

not exactly, but you'll only see shooters with great touch getting the shooters bounce on any type of consistent basis. Ray, Steph, Pierce, Crawford all come to mind as recent examples.

Shooters with good touch will have more misses that gently fall off the rim than shooters who don't have good touch.

I think anybody who has ever stepped on a court will tell you that its easier to rebound good shooters because its easier to tell where the ball is coming down from off the rim compared to bad shooters who clank it and it flies off somewhere near the free-thow line

[raprap]

bunch of stupid post as usual on ISH

The "Kobe assist" or whatever you want to call it is just when a player (with good touch) misses a shot gently off the rim making it easier for an offensive player standing under the basket to grab the board.

Instead of clanking it off and creating a long rebound which lowers the chance of grabbing an offensive board, these misses gently roll out off the rim making it easier to grab for the offense.

A lot of good shooters with good touch will miss lightly off the rim more times than clanking it and clanking it creates a longer distance for the ball to travel off the rim making it harder for the team on offense to grab the ball and keep the possession. This ins't rocket science.
This post serious? :lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

This post serious? :lol


I think anybody who has ever stepped on a court will tell you that its easier to rebound good shooters because its easier to tell where the ball is coming down from of the rim, off a miss, more often than not.

[SchrOEder]

not exactly, but you'll only see shooters with great touch getting the shooters bounce on any type of consistent basis. Ray, Steph, Pierce, Crawford all come to mind as recent examples.

Shooters with good touch will have more misses that gently fall off the rim than shooters who don't have good touch.

I think anybody who has ever stepped on a court will tell you that its easier to rebound good shooters because its easier to tell where the ball is coming down from off the rim compared to bad shooters who clank it and it flies off somewhere near the free-thow line

but what is a good shot? high arcing? low arcing?

[TheMarkMadsen]

but what is a good shot? high arcing? low arcing?

good shot?

I said shooters with good touch, I didn't say anything about shot selection.

[SchrOEder]

well i think the shooting-technique is important regarding the bounce-back effect once hitting the rim.

[Akrazotile]

not exactly, but you'll only see shooters with great touch getting the shooters bounce on any type of consistent basis. Ray, Steph, Pierce, Crawford all come to mind as recent examples.

Shooters with good touch will have more misses that gently fall off the rim than shooters who don't have good touch.

I think anybody who has ever stepped on a court will tell you that its easier to rebound good shooters because its easier to tell where the ball is coming down from off the rim compared to bad shooters who clank it and it flies off somewhere near the free-thow line


Actually the farther away it bounces, the more likely it is to be an offensive rebound. Defensive teams always have inside positioning unless they blow an assignment.

Kobe misses cause he takes dumb hero shots and puts up bricks. It's that simple. The fact youre trying to spin it as being a purposeful, positive action is beyond homerism. Seek help.

[TheGreatDeraj]

The Kobe assist is not about bad shots. It is about taking a shot when you have players in rebounding position or a rebounding advantage. This strategy has been used many times, but Kobe excels due to his ability to hit shots over his defender and his IQ of when to takes shots based on the position of the Lakers bigs.

For example, when Kobe takes a baseline jumper and the Lakers have a good rebounder in good position on the other side of the rim and/or in front of the rim then not only is your best player taking a shot in his comfort zone, but in case he does miss the Lakers still have a good chance to succeed by having a good offensive rebounder right there to turn that missed shot into an easy basket or an extra possession.

Or when Kobe takes the double team and gets a shot with the Laker bigs in good rebounding position and a 4-3 player rebounding advantage.

The Kobe assist is when one of the best one-on-one isolation players of all time gets a shot he is comfortable with while his big, skilled, rebounding teammates are in position for securing an extra possession and an often easy basket for the the Lakers.