MJ and Bron never played on a team as 2nd best player

[bitedez]

Since their rookie years.

Discuss

[Nash]

alphas

[sportjames23]

Wasn't Lebron on the Redeem Team?

[Ranked 12th]

Wasn't Lebron on the Redeem Team?


Wasn't Jordan 1-9?

[Fallen Angel]

Do All-Star games count?

[jstern]

It's hard to be better than Shaq.

[WayOfWade]

Kobe Bryant

[Sakkreth]

Wasn't Lebron on the Redeem Team?

Yeah, but that doesn't change shit.

[Akrazotile]

It's hard to be better than Shaq.

Not for Lebron

[Chadwin]

2005 all star team

[Labissiere]

2011 LeBron did.

[3ball]

2011 LeBron did.



Lebron choked and wasted his chance to win a ring as 2nd fiddle:


D WADE 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 24.5 ppg on 48.5%
LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 23.7 ppg on 46.6%

D WADE 2011 FINALS:. 26.5 ppg on 55%
LEBRON 2011 FINALS:. 17.8 ppg on 48%

[Labissiere]

Lebron choked and wasted his chance to win a ring as 2nd fiddle:


D WADE 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 24.5 ppg on 48.5%
LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 23.7 ppg on 46.6%

D WADE 2011 FINALS:. 26.5 ppg on 55%
LEBRON 2011 FINALS:. 17.8 ppg on 48%
Or maybe Dwyane Wade was better that year and deferred to LeBron until he realized he had to do it himself.

[3ball]

Or maybe Dwyane Wade was better that year and deferred to LeBron until he realized he had to do it himself.
Agreed, Wade was definitely better that year.

By choking so badly, Lebron wasted his chance to win a ring as 2nd fiddle to Wade.

It's no surprise that prime Wade turned out to be better (before he started declining).

After all, Wade was a poor man's Jordan - he was an alpha, aggressive mentality scoring champ with sub-par 3-pointer just like Jordan, but he was 2 inches shorter, with smaller hands, less athleticism, and a FAR worse midrange shot (MJ's midrange was goat).

[GrapeApe]

It will happen for Lebron eventually unless he retires young. Jordan is probably the only player to ever play his entire career as his team's best player. Maybe Bird too, but his back injurt forced his retirement.

[choppermagic]

It's tough to tell for Lebron because of the style of play he dominates the ball so even if Wade or anyone else was a better player, you would never know given that he hogs all the stats.

In any event, it will happen soon, as the continued cry for "help" to keep stacking his teams will eventually mean he is not the 'best' player. But aside from that, Olympic and All-Star teams probably mean he wasn't.

In addition, it also doesn't autmatically mean they are GOAT, it just means their teammates were not perceived "greater". Some players get stuck on crappy lottery teams as the best player too

[3ball]

It will happen for Lebron eventually unless he retires young.



Who cares what each guy did during the lower competition regular season (i.e. college).. It's the higher competition PLAYOFFS (pros) that shows how good a player is:


D WADE 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 24.5 ppg on 48.5%
LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 23.7 ppg on 46.6%

D WADE 2011 FINALS:. 26.5 ppg on 55%
LEBRON 2011 FINALS:. 17.8 ppg on 48%


Wade was the far better player in the higher competition playoffs, so just accept it - Lebron was the 2nd best player during a postseason run - the 2011 playoffs.

[Labissiere]

It's tough to tell for Lebron because of the style of play he dominates the ball so even if Wade or anyone else was a better player, you would never know given that he hogs all the stats.


Which is why I believe Wade was better despite stats for much of the year saying LeBron was. I do think LeBron permanently surpassed Wade after that year.

[Hey Yo]

It's tough to tell for Lebron because of the style of play he dominates the ball so even if Wade or anyone else was a better player, you would never know given that he hogs all the stats.

In any event, it will happen soon, as the continued cry for "help" to keep stacking his teams will eventually mean he is not the 'best' player. But aside from that, Olympic and All-Star teams probably mean he wasn't.

In addition, it also doesn't autmatically mean they are GOAT, it just means their teammates were not perceived "greater". Some players get stuck on crappy lottery teams as the best player too
LeBron plays 48mins a game? Wade or _______ is never on the floor w/o James to get stats?

[GrapeApe]

Who cares what each guy did during the lower competition regular season (i.e. college).. It's the higher competition PLAYOFFS (pros) that shows how good a player is:


D WADE 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 24.5 ppg on 48.5%
LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 23.7 ppg on 46.6%

D WADE 2011 FINALS:. 26.5 ppg on 55%
LEBRON 2011 FINALS:. 17.8 ppg on 48%


Wade was the far better player in the higher competition playoffs, so just accept it - Lebron was the 2nd best player during a postseason run - the 2011 playoffs.


Accept it? I'm a Heat fan and Wade is one of my top 2 favorite players ever (Zo).

Wade has a case for being better that season for sure. I consider Wade and Lebron that season to be about as close to co-1st options as you'll ever see. If you want to give the edge to Wade because of the playoffs, fine, but don't act like it wasn't close. Their production that season was nearly identical.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Big Z > rookie bran
11 Wade > 11 bran

[DonDraper]

Big Z > rookie bran
11 Wade > 11 bran

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[FreezingTsmoove]

11 Wade was better than Bran

Just rewatch the 2011 finals

Or the 11 ECF

[sportjames23]

Wasn't Jordan 1-9?


He was never 2/6 tho, dubeta.

[Nash]

Who cares what each guy did during the lower competition regular season (i.e. college).. It's the higher competition PLAYOFFS (pros) that shows how good a player is:


D WADE 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 24.5 ppg on 48.5%
LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFFS:. 23.7 ppg on 46.6%

D WADE 2011 FINALS:. 26.5 ppg on 55%
LEBRON 2011 FINALS:. 17.8 ppg on 48%


Wade was the far better player in the higher competition playoffs, so just accept it - Lebron was the 2nd best player during a postseason run - the 2011 playoffs.

Yes, I agree. Playoffs is where we should analyze the numbers.
And the numbers say that Lebron will probably end up dominating every damn category. He will for sure be the all time leader in playoff points over your hero Jordan in a year or two.

don't ever play yourself, 3ball

[coin24]

Well if he's the best then thats pretty sad. 2/6:oldlol:

Mj 6/6:bowdown:
Kobe 5/7:bowdown:
Shaq 4/6 :bowdown:


I'm sorry but Lebron is a loser. Deal with it:cheers:

[coin24]

Yes, I agree. Playoffs is where we should analyze the numbers.
And the numbers say that Lebron will probably end up dominating every damn category. He will for sure be the all time leader in playoff points over your hero Jordan in a year or two.

don't ever play yourself, 3ball


He's a known stat padder pauk..

Shame he can't pad his finals win % :lol :lol

[DonDraper]

He's a known stat padder pauk..

Shame he can't pad his finals win % :lol :lol

Like how you can't pad the times you had sex :oldlol:


Still at 0, baby cashew

[coin24]

Like how you can't pad the times you had sex :oldlol:


Still at 0, baby cashew


Sounds more like dubeta/jt wouldn't you agree? That guys a real baby di.ck virgin:lol

[DonDraper]

Sounds more like dubeta/jt wouldn't you agree? That guys a real baby di.ck virgin:lol

Don't know who they are, but they're living rent free AF in your head



Maybe if you thought more about girls, than random internet guys you'd get laid one day :oldlol:

[3ball]

Yes, I agree. Playoffs is where we should analyze the numbers.

And the numbers say that Lebron will probably end up dominating every damn category. He will for sure be the all time leader in playoff points over your hero Jordan in a year or two.

don't ever play yourself, 3ball



Imagine if your favorite player scored 5-7 more ppg in the playoffs on better efficiency across the board - that's what MJ did in comparison to Lebron:


Career Playoffs - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Playoffs - PER 100 POSSESSIONS:

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Finals - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg


There's never been a number 1 option that scored 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring edge on superior efficiency is far more valuable than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) and 2.5 def rebound edge (MJ had more offensive rebounds).

Lebron's assist edge is particularly meaningless considering he achieves his assists by lowering his TEAMMATES' assists and playmaking, as the stats show in the previous post.

Furthermore, Jordan scored 10 more ppg than his 2nd option for every playoff series of his career AND led the team in passing (MJ led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49))... Lebron was never required to do that - he has several series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer.

Don't ever play yourself Nash

[scuzzy]

Pork loin d1ck :lol

[knicksman]

2/6<<<5/7<<6/6

[GrapeApe]

Imagine if your favorite player scored 5-7 more ppg in the playoffs on better efficiency across the board - that's what MJ did in comparison to Lebron:


Career Playoffs - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Playoffs - PER 100 POSSESSIONS:

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg


Career Finals - PER GAME:

JORDAN: 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.65 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON: 26.4 ppg.. 9.6 rpg.. 6.9 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.54 bpg.. 44.6 fg


There's never been a number 1 option that scored 5-7 more ppg on better efficiency that wasn't considered the FAR better player.

Jordan's massive scoring edge on superior efficiency is far more valuable than Lebron's 1.0 assist edge (with more turnovers) and 2.5 def rebound edge (MJ had more offensive rebounds).

Lebron's assist edge is particularly meaningless considering he achieves his assists by lowering his TEAMMATES' assists and playmaking, as the stats show in the previous post.

Furthermore, Jordan scored 10 more ppg than his 2nd option for every playoff series of his career AND led the team in passing (MJ led the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49))... Lebron was never required to do that - he has several series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer.

Don't ever play yourself Nash

Pippen led the Bulls in assists and apg in the playoffs in 1992, 1996, and 1998.

[Hey Yo]

Lebron's assist edge is particularly meaningless considering he achieves his assists by lowering his TEAMMATES' assists and playmaking, as the stats show in the previous post.
By far the most retarded point you always try to make.

[LAZERUSS]

Magic is certainly debatable.

As a rookie he turned the franchise around, and led them to a 60-22 record, and a championship. En route, he also won a well-deserved FMVP.

And had he not missed half of the next season, who knows?

From that point on, Magic engineered Showtime.

[SouBeachTalents]

Magic is certainly debatable.

As a rookie he turned the franchise around, and led them to a 60-22 record, and a championship. En route, he also won a well-deserved FMVP.

And had he not missed half of the next season, who knows?

From that point on, Magic engineered Showtime.

It's pretty indisputable Kareem > Magic in '80. He won MVP & would have easily won FMVP if he didn't get injured. One legendary performance doesn't overshadow an entire seasons worth of play, and Kareem was the better player. Imo, Magic became the Lakers best player in '82, but from '82-'85 it was pretty damn close

[LAZERUSS]

It's pretty indisputable Kareem > Magic in '80. He won MVP & would have easily won FMVP if he didn't get injured. One legendary performance doesn't overshadow an entire seasons worth of play, and Kareem was the better player. Imo, Magic became the Lakers best player in '82, but from '82-'85 it was pretty damn close

Magic put up a 22-11-9-3 Finals on a .630 TS%.

And again, with no Kareem, he led them to their best game of the entire Finals.

And in '81, he was injured and missed 45 games. Not sure if he was really rusty in the first round, but the format did LA in.

From that point on he was the key player on the Lakers.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird was arguably the best player on his team every season

[LAZERUSS]

Bird was arguably the best player on his team every season

True...although not always in the playoffs (and particularly in some Finals.)

[JT123]

Don't know who they are, but they're living rent free AF in your head



Maybe if you thought more about girls, than random internet guys you'd get laid one day :oldlol:
:lol :lol :lol

[3ball]

Pippen led the Bulls in assists and apg in the playoffs in 1992, 1996, and 1998.



MJ assisted on a higher proportion of teammate field goals for both 3-peats:



Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan: 31.1%
Pippen: 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced



Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan: 22.3%
Pippen: 22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced



And you're missing the point - Jordan scored 10 more ppg than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers AND led the team in passing for both 3-peats.

That's the biggest load ever... Lebron was never required to do that - he has several series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer.

[GrapeApe]

MJ assisted on a higher proportion of teammate field goals for both 3-peats:



Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan: 31.1%
Pippen: 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced



Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan: 22.3%
Pippen: 22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced



And you're missing the point - Jordan scored 10 more ppg than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers AND led the team in passing for both 3-peats.

That's the biggest load ever... Lebron was never required to do that - he has several series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer.

I just stated that Pippen led the Bulls in total assists and apg for 3 of their championship runs. Jordan did not lead them in passing in 1992, 1996, and 1998, yet for some reason you continue to insist he did. You can't group multiple years together (if that's what you're doing) because every season is completely independent.

[Magic 32]

I'm sure D-Wade would have loved to play with someone who knew how to be the 2nd option in 2011.

[Bankaii]

I'm sure D-Wade would have loved to play with someone who knew how to be the 2nd option in 2011.
Shaq in 2004 would've too.

[3ball]

MJ assisted on a higher proportion of teammate field goals for both 3-peats:



Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan: 31.1%
Pippen: 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced



Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan: 22.3%
Pippen: 22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced




Jordan did not lead them in passing in 1992, 1996, and 1998, yet for some reason you continue to insist he did.


MJ assisted teammates more than Pippen during the 1st three-peat, and also during the 2nd three-peat - these are the statistical facts, as shown above.

In addition to leading the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats, MJ also scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen FOR EVERY PLAYOFF SERIES.

No one else in history was required to score THAT much more than their 2nd option for every playoff series, AND lead the team in passing.. No one is even close to that kind of burden.

Heck, Lebron has many series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer - that's a far cry from scoring 10 ppg more for than his 2nd option for every series of his career.

[Magic 32]

Shaq in 2004 would've too.

He had already had that privilege for 4 years.

[GrapeApe]

MJ assisted teammates more than Pippen during the 1st three-peat, and also during the 2nd three-peat - these are the statistical facts, as shown above.

In addition to leading the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats, MJ also scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen FOR EVERY PLAYOFF SERIES.

No one else in history was required to score THAT much more than their 2nd option for every playoff series, AND lead the team in passing.. No one is even close to that kind of burden.

Heck, Lebron has many series where he wasn't even the team's leading scorer - that's a far cry from scoring 10 ppg more for than his 2nd option for every series of his career.

What is your malfunction dude? :oldlol:

I just told you that you can't group the 3-peats together as one giant entity. Every season is independent, and Pippen was the leading assist man in 3 of the Bulls' championship runs.

Here's an example of your logic:

Player A averages 10 apg for a title run and then 1 apg for a title run the following year.

Player B averages 2 apg for a title run and 8 apg for a title run the following year.

You are trying to say player A was the leading assist man for both title runs because he averaged more assists combined in both seasons. It doesn't work that way, because the first season has absolutely nothing to do with the next. Player A led the first year, player B the second year. Jordan led the Bulls in assists for 3 title runs, Pippen led the Bulls in assists for 3 title runs. I don't know what is so hard to grasp about that.

[3ball]

Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs

JORDAN:.. 31.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced) <--- links to nba.com data
PIPPEN:... 23.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced)


Assist Percentage 1998-1998 Playoffs

JORDAN:.. 22.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced)
PIPPEN:... 22.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced)




you can't group the 3-peats together as one giant entity. Every season is independent, and Pippen was the leading assist man in 3 of the Bulls' championship runs.


Any 6th grader can look at the above information and answer the following questions:



Who was the biggest playmaker on the Bulls during the 1st three-peat?



Answer: It was MJ because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals.



Who was the biggest playmaker on the Bulls during the 2nd three-peat?



Answer: It was MJ because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals.


What more do you want?.. In addition to leading the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats, MJ also scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers.

No one else in history was required to score THAT much more than their 2nd option for every playoff series of their careers, AND lead the team in passing.. No one is even close to that kind of burden.

[LongLiveTheKing]

I'm sure D-Wade would have loved to play with someone who knew how to be the 2nd option in 2011.
Like Kobe? :oldlol:

[Stringer Bell]

Some examples, or near examples:

Larry Bird: best player on the Celtics as soon as he joined the team in 1979. He misses pretty much all of the 1988-89 season, and played 3 more seasons with an injured back. You can argue he was the best Celtic for those last 3 years. He was certainly the most productive statistically and garnered more MVP votes. As a testament to his value, the 1990-91 Celtics had a great start and were the best team in the NBA a couple months in. As soon as Bird's health suffered, so did the Celtics. He looked like he was in slow-motion on the court toward the end, and still averaged 20, 10, and 7 (rounded up) in 45 games in his last season.

Karl Malone: I despise this hebephelic, 12-year old neighbor impregnating, elbow-throwing, child-abandoning, dirtbag but being the best player on your team for 17 of 19 (his rookie and last being the exception) seasons is pretty damn incredible.

Tim Duncan: The best player on the Spurs from his rookie year all the way until probably last season when Leonard surpassed him. The Spurs are very balanced and the past few years are closer than earlier years when Duncan was far and away the best on the team, but Duncan was still probably overall the best and had the most impact of any player on the Spurs. 1997-98 through 2013-14, Duncan was the best player on the Spurs. Extremely impressive to say the least.

Hakeem Olajuwon: Already the best player on the Rockets, over Sampson, in his rookie season. Was arguably the best center in the game in his second year in 1985-86. The best player on his team for his first 15 seasons. Then came the last 3. Ugh.

Most players will eventually get surpassed as they age.

[Stringer Bell]

It's pretty indisputable Kareem > Magic in '80. He won MVP & would have easily won FMVP if he didn't get injured. One legendary performance doesn't overshadow an entire seasons worth of play, and Kareem was the better player. Imo, Magic became the Lakers best player in '82, but from '82-'85 it was pretty damn close

Yeah, I'd agree that Magic took over as the best player on the Lakers during the 1981-82 season.

[34-24 Footwork]

Some examples, or near examples:

Larry Bird: best player on the Celtics as soon as he joined the team in 1979. He misses pretty much all of the 1988-89 season, and played 3 more seasons with an injured back. You can argue he was the best Celtic for those last 3 years. He was certainly the most productive statistically and garnered more MVP votes. As a testament to his value, the 1990-91 Celtics had a great start and were the best team in the NBA a couple months in. As soon as Bird's health suffered, so did the Celtics. He looked like he was in slow-motion on the court toward the end, and still averaged 20, 10, and 7 (rounded up) in 45 games in his last season.

Karl Malone: I despise this hebephelic, 12-year old neighbor impregnating, elbow-throwing, child-abandoning, dirtbag but being the best player on your team for 17 of 19 (his rookie and last being the exception) seasons is pretty damn incredible.

Tim Duncan: The best player on the Spurs from his rookie year all the way until probably last season when Leonard surpassed him. The Spurs are very balanced and the past few years are closer than earlier years when Duncan was far and away the best on the team, but Duncan was still probably overall the best and had the most impact of any player on the Spurs. 1997-98 through 2013-14, Duncan was the best player on the Spurs. Extremely impressive to say the least.

Hakeem Olajuwon: Already the best player on the Rockets, over Sampson, in his rookie season. Was arguably the best center in the game in his second year in 1985-86. The best player on his team for his first 15 seasons. Then came the last 3. Ugh.

Most players will eventually get surpassed as they age.



Bolded is the BIGGEST CROCK OF SHIT I've read on this board. And that's saying ALOT. The revisionist history, however, is impressive.

[Stringer Bell]

Bolded is the BIGGEST CROCK OF SHIT I've read on this board. And that's saying ALOT. The revisionist history, however, is impressive.

Who was better than Duncan on the Spurs from when he started his decline in the late 2000s? Parker? Ginobili?

He was still better and more impactful than them, just by a smaller margin in the late 00s and early 10s, until Leonard really improved.

The Spurs are just a great balanced team with terrific coaching and an excellent system.

[GrapeApe]

Any 6th grader can look at the above information and answer the following questions:



Who was the biggest playmaker on the Bulls during the 1st three-peat?



Answer: It was MJ because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals.



Who was the biggest playmaker on the Bulls during the 2nd three-peat?



Answer: It was MJ because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals.


What more do you want?.. In addition to leading the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats, MJ also scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers.

No one else in history was required to score THAT much more than their 2nd option for every playoff series of their careers, AND lead the team in passing.. No one is even close to that kind of burden.

You are continuing to ignore my point, as usual. Answer this question. It's a simple yes or no question. Did Pippen lead the Bulls in total assists and apg for the 1992, 1996, and 1998 championship runs? I don't need any information about what else Jordan did or Pippen didn't do. Just a yes or no answer.

Pippen led the Bulls in total assists and apg in the playoffs in 1992, 1996, and 1998. Yes or no.

[Young X]

CP3 has been the best on all his teams.

2014 is the only year that's somewhat debateable but I'll easily take him over Griffin on my team.

Other than that, David West and Blake Griffin were never better than him.

[3ball]

Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs

JORDAN:.. 31.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced) <--- links to nba.com data
PIPPEN:... 23.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced)


Assist Percentage 1998-1998 Playoffs

JORDAN:.. 22.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced)
PIPPEN:... 22.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced)



Did Pippen lead the Bulls in assists for the 1992, 1996, and 1998 playoffs??.. Yes or no.




I'll answer your questions when you answer my questions:



Who was the biggest playmaker on the Bulls during the 1st three-peat?



Answer: It was MJ because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals during the 1st three-peat, as the data shows above.



Who was the biggest playmaker on the Bulls during the 2nd three-peat?



Answer: It was MJ because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals during the 2nd three-peat, as the data shows above.


What more do you want?.. In addition to leading the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats, MJ also scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers.

No one else in history was required to score THAT much more than their 2nd option for every playoff series of their careers, AND lead the team in passing.. No one is even close to that kind of burden.

[GrapeApe]

I'll answer your questions when you answer my questions:



Who was the biggest playmaker on the Bulls during the 1st three-peat?



Answer: It was MJ because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals during the 1st three-peat, as the data shows above.



Who was the biggest playmaker on the Bulls during the 2nd three-peat?



Answer: It was MJ because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals during the 2nd three-peat, as the data shows above.


What more do you want?.. In addition to leading the Bulls in assist percentage for both 3-peats, MJ also scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers.

No one else in history was required to score THAT much more than their 2nd option for every playoff series of their careers, AND lead the team in passing.. No one is even close to that kind of burden.

Jordan was the top playmaker in 1991, 1993, and 1997. You are trying to combine what Jordan did those years and apply it to other seasons as part of a 3-peat, while at the same time talking about individual playoff series in different seasons. You don't see the flaw in that logic?

You cannot reference statistics from 3 combined seasons and apply them to individual seasons. I'll say it again, every season is independent. The only correct way to state it is that Jordan was the top playmaker in 1991, 1993, 1997, and Pippen the top playmaker in 1992, 1996, 1998.

If you want me to say that Jordan was the top playmaker when combining each season of each 3-peat, fine. He was. Now I want you to acknowledge that Pippen was the top playmaker for 3 of those individal seasons. I'll be waiting.

[3ball]

Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs

JORDAN:.. 31.1% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced) <--- links to nba.com data
PIPPEN:... 23.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced)


Assist Percentage 1998-1998 Playoffs

JORDAN:.. 22.3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced)
PIPPEN:... 22.0 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced)



If you want me to say that Jordan was the top playmaker when combining each season of each 3-peat, fine. He was.



Who assisted on the highest proportion of Bulls' field goals during the 1st three-peat?


Jordan.


Who assisted on the highest proportion of Bulls' field goals during the 2nd three-peat?


Jordan.


Who assisted on the highest proportion of Bulls' field goals for all 6 championship runs combined?


Jordan.



Jordan was the biggest playmaker during both 3-peats because he assisted on the highest percentage of field goals - the data above is clear.. :confusedshrug: