Where would have Penny Hardaway rank had he never gotten hurt?

[senelcoolidge]

6-7 point guard. Career cut short by a devastating injury. Was part of one of the most exciting duo's I got a chance to witness.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTAcKVvzTT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04yExoEIJJs

[scuzzy]

6-7 point guard. Career cut short by a devastating injury. Was part of one of the most exciting duo's I got a chance to witness.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTAcKVvzTT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04yExoEIJJs

Eddie Jones, Tmac, Penny - some great late 90's wings

[bigkingsfan]

12th all time

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Going by his peak he wouldve been a top 5 PG of alltime if he had good longevity. Top 20-25 alltime among all players

[scuzzy]

12th all time
What's up with everyone on this site saying 12th

[scuzzy]

Going by his peak he wouldve been a top 5 PG of alltime if he had good longevity. Top 20-25 alltime among all players
Penny was a SG/SF mayne, he had the best kicks in the late 90s to

Maybs you were thinking of Tim

[IncarceratedBob]

Completely serious- top 5 wing all time

[Stringer Bell]

What's up with everyone on this site saying 12th

ESPN ranked Kobe as the 12th greatest player ever so I'd assume it has something to do with that.

[scuzzy]

ESPN ranked Kobe as the 12th greatest player ever so I'd assume it has something to do with that.
Sh1t thats generous, thought it was a jab at the number of uknown kids shawn kemp has:lol

[plowking]

He was a better Grant Hill in his prime.

[L.Kizzle]

He was a better Grant Hill in his prime.
Noooo. Grant was definitely better.

[Smoke117]

Nostalgia is making Penny a lot better than he was...his numbers were inflated by playing immediately with Shaq. His numbers (especially his fg%) were way lower without Shaq in 97 even before he got injured. He was good, but better than Grant Hill? That's just absurd. Hill was actually carrying shitty Piston teams...imagine him playing with Shaq.

[plowking]

Noooo. Grant was definitely better.

Yes he was. Penny did everything Grant did on offense, and a little bit more, and then you add in the fact that he was an all defense level defender compared to Hill who was poverty at the start of his career.


Nostalgia is making Penny a lot better than he was...his numbers were inflated by playing immediately with Shaq. His numbers (especially his fg%) were way lower without Shaq in 97 even before he got injured. He was good, but better than Grant Hill? That's just absurd. Hill was actually carrying shitty Piston teams...imagine him playing with Shaq.

He was. He was quite clearly the better player at the time, and was considered so. Shaq wasn't carrying shit in Orlando. Penny was just as much of a catalyst and reason for their amazing play.
Look at the 96 season. Penny leads them to 60 wins in a season where Shaq sits 30 games. They started the season 18-5 without Shaq. Hence on pace to win more without him than with him.

Hill doesn't have a season as good as Penny's 95/96 season.

[L.Kizzle]

Yes he was. Penny did everything Grant did on offense, and a little bit more, and then you add in the fact that he was an all defense level defender compared to Hill who was poverty at the start of his career.



He was. He was quite clearly the better player at the time, and was considered so. Shaq wasn't carrying shit in Orlando. Penny was just as much of a catalyst and reason for their amazing play.
Look at the 96 season. Penny leads them to 60 wins in a season where Shaq sits 30 games. They started the season 18-5 without Shaq. Hence on pace to win more without him than with him.

Hill doesn't have a season as good as Penny's 95/96 season.
Grant has about five seasons as good as Penny's 96 season. Also, when did Penny become an all-defensive level defender?

Both were special talents, and should have taken over the league going into the millennium. Those guys were supposed to carry the league in the 2000s, not Kobe, AI, Carter, ect. But Grant was a little more special.

[bizil]

The interesting thing about Penny was his ability to play and defend PG, SG, and SF. We all know he was redefining the PG position during his best days in the L. There was never a PG with his combination of size, athletic ability, scoring ability, and passing ability. But due to his scoring ability, he might have eventually been a superstar SG.

Even though he was compared to Magic, he wasn't the same type of floor general Magic was. Magic was born to be a PG. Guys like Hill and Penny could have been great PG's. But due to their versatility and scoring ability, they are likely better off at the SG, point forward, or SF.

But at PG or SG, Penny had top 5-7 all time peak potential. If he would have stuck at PG, I think his legacy would have been more unique. Even in today's game, u don't really see ANY 6'7 players where there PRIMARY POSITION is PG.

[bizil]

Noooo. Grant was definitely better.

I agree! For starters, Hill could PLAY AND DEFEND PG to PF. From there he was freakish athlete who could also dominate a game scoring. At his best, G Hill was like a combination of Dr. J and Pippen.

Penny was a beast, don't get me wrong. But Hill's versatility and physical dominance give him the clear edge. People gotta realize that Hill had about 15-20 pounds on Penny. While Penny was a freak athlete for a guard, Hill was much stronger and could bang with the big boys some.

[JohnnySic]

One of the most overrated players ever. Great player, all-star, but not an all-time great. He was NOT as good as Grant Hill, and Hill himself (if he hadn't gotten hurt) would probably be top 30-40 at best.

Curry, Westbrook, even Harden, right now are better than Penny ever was.

[Fire Colangelo]

Poor Man's Wade.

I'd take Grant Hill over him any day.

[tmacattack33]

Nostalgia is making Penny a lot better than he was...his numbers were inflated by playing immediately with Shaq. His numbers (especially his fg%) were way lower without Shaq in 97 even before he got injured. He was good, but better than Grant Hill? That's just absurd. Hill was actually carrying shitty Piston teams...imagine him playing with Shaq.

Bad post. Borderline terrible.

Penny's numbers without Shaq in 1996 were great...26.4 ppg on .503 FG and 6.8 assists per game while leading Orlando to a 19-4 record.

Penny was 3rd in MVP voting that year and deserved it...placing behind MJ and Malone, and ahead of GOATs like David Robinson and Hakeem.

And LOL at Grant Hill being better. Peak Penny was better than Peak Hill.

[tmacattack33]

I agree! For starters, Hill could PLAY AND DEFEND PG to PF. From there he was freakish athlete who could also dominate a game scoring. At his best, G Hill was like a combination of Dr. J and Pippen.

Penny was a beast, don't get me wrong. But Hill's versatility and physical dominance give him the clear edge. People gotta realize that Hill had about 15-20 pounds on Penny. While Penny was a freak athlete for a guard, Hill was much stronger and could bang with the big boys some.

:roll:

I see some people are assuming that since 2009 Grant Hill was a good defender, that he musta been even better of a defender in 1999.

Which is absolutely false. Grant Hill became a better defender during his later years.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

Penny was a SG/SF mayne, he had the best kicks in the late 90s to

Maybs you were thinking of Tim


What are you talking about? Penny was a great PG who can play multiple positions.

His court vision was insane and I would even put his vision/instinct above Kidd's.

His post up game was tight as well and could defend down low.

If he didn't get injured..I always though his shot would of improved alot more.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

:roll:

I see some people are assuming that since 2009 Grant Hill was a good defender, that he musta been even better of a defender in 1999.

Which is absolutely false. Grant Hill became a better defender during his later years.


This...

His earlier year's,he was not known as a great defender. Penny however was.

[90sgoat]

Grant Hill, Jason Kidd and Penny were supposed to be the next generation to carry the NBA into the post-Jordan decade.

We certainly really missed out on both Hill and Penny, both were amazing and had so much potential.

I think Hill was the better player though.

[ClipperRevival]

Hill was just the better player better. People talk about "what if" stories and Hill is one of the best examples, not Penny. Before his ankle injury, Hill put up 26/6/5 in 1999-00. And in some seasons, he was giving you close to 20/10/7, yes, in a couple of seasons, he pulled down 9.8 and 9.0 rpg.

Hill's first 6 seasons before injury:

21.6 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 6.3 APG, 22.4 PER

Penny's first 4 seasons before injury:

19.7 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 6.7 APG, 21.0 PER

[feyki]

Top 75 .

Also ( what if they wouldn't got injured ) ,

Hill - Top 40

King - Top 40

Roy - Top 60

Yao - Top 50

T-Mac - Top 15

Vince - Top 25

M.Stokes - Top 15

Bill Walton - Top 10

Groza - Top 40 ( that wasn't injury)

..

[bizil]

:roll:

I see some people are assuming that since 2009 Grant Hill was a good defender, that he musta been even better of a defender in 1999.

Which is absolutely false. Grant Hill became a better defender during his later years.

G Hill was a VERY GOOD defender in his best years. BUT he was never a defender on Pippen's level either. Early in G Hill's career, he had SO MANY responsibilities that his D suffered some. He had to be his team's best scorer, best passer, best rebounder (at times), and best defender. I think Hill having to do SO MUCH caused those ankle problems.

LATER in Hill's career, he was STRICTLY a role player. So ALL of his energy could be used to defend. So while I agree Hill became a better defender in his later years, he was a VERY GOOD DEFENDER in his prime years. WHO ALSO defended PG's as well..

[LakersForlife]

above lebronze

[L.Kizzle]

Top 75 .

Also ( what if they wouldn't got injured ) ,

Hill - Top 40

King - Top 40

Roy - Top 60

Yao - Top 50

T-Mac - Top 15

Vince - Top 25

M.Stokes - Top 15

Bill Walton - Top 10

Groza - Top 40 ( that wasn't injury)

..
Ralph Sampson - Top 50