Spurs vs Heat '13 and '14 finals

[JohnnySic]

Why were the '13 finals competitive while the '14 finals were a complete drubbing? :confusedshrug: Both teams were essentially the same both years.

I realize the Heat were a year older, but the Spurs were also older.

[Legends66NBA7]

Only Games 1, 6, and 7 were competitive in the 13 Finals.

I think the drop off was because the Spurs were just far more determined and the Heat dropped off defensively from the 3 seasons before.

[Fire Colangelo]

The Heat were more fatigued... They were in their 4th straight finals. Fatigued physically and mentally.

Nobody other Lebron showed up to play, the Heat were doing ok until Lebron took a seat... Wade just couldn't keep up at that point.

[Da_Realist]

Only Games 1, 6, and 7 were competitive in the 13 Finals.

I think the drop off was because the Spurs were just far more determined and the Heat dropped off defensively from the 3 seasons before.

Yes and it was beautiful to see. The Spurs were focused and they prepared all year for Miami. They were ready by the time the Finals rolled around. They had already figured out the puzzle. That's why Duncan felt comfortable predicting that they would beat the Heat (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e1xnzx55JQ) before Game 1 of the Finals -- one of my favorite basketball moments.

[Lebronxrings]

Lebron carried in 2013. Team was aright

Lebron carried in 2014. Team was garbage.

[DonDraper]

Cause Wade was dogshit in 2014




Don't get me wrong, he was dogshit in 2013 as well outside of Game 4, but in 2014 not only was he bad offensively, his defense fell off a cliff.

[riseagainst]

Lebron carried in 2013. Ray Allen took over.

Lebron carried in 2014. He was left wide open to do whatever he wants and still couldn't win.

fixed

[JT123]

Cause Wade was dogshit in 2014
Literally all that needs to be said. Wade :facepalm

[Proctor]

A team with LeBron isn't hard to figure out. And Spurs were just determined. When they choked it away like that, I had no doubts they'd be back next year.

[JT123]

Besides Wade playing like a cowardly little bitch, the Heat were the much older team. Everyone tried to pretend like the Spurs were old, but other than Duncan and Manu (2 role players) who on that Spurs team was old? :confusedshrug:
The Heat were trying to win with 36 year old Birdman, along with the corpses of Ray Allen, Shane Battier, and Rashard Lewis. :lol :facepalm
How Lebron even got that retirement home roster to the Finals is just a testament to his greatness. :bowdown:

[3ball]

What was the difference between 2013 and 2014


In 2013, the Spurs altered their normal defense to guard Lebron (sagging off, double-teaming, etc), but it didn't quite work.

In 2014, the Spurs realized that Lebron's style (at the time) was to pursue high efficiency, which resulted in low shot attempts that he didn't increase even when he was single-covered.. Without the need to double-team him, the Spurs stayed at home and locked down his teammates.





A team with LeBron isn't hard to figure out.


Indeed - Lebron and the Heat's pursuit of efficiency was unbelievably dumb and DIDN'T WORK - the Heat shot better against the Spurs than any other Spurs' opponent (DAL, POR, OKC), yet they lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.

Why is this?.. Because the Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, regardless of efficiency.

DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course - Miami - with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..





How Lebron even got that retirement home roster to the Finals is just a testament to his greatness.


Horseshit - in 2014 playoffs, Wade averaged 18 ppg on 50%, Bosh averaged 15 ppg and Ray Allen 10 ppg - that's more help than MJ ever had.. Pippen only averaged 17 ppg on 41% during entire 1996-1998 playoffs.

Furthermore, Lebron's poor defense in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..

And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).

MJ would've won the 2014 Finals because his defense wouldn't let a role player become > Duncan, and he would've had the necessary offensive aggression (30+ shot attempts) to attract defensive attention away from teammates.

[ninephive]

The '13 Finals should have been over in 6, obviously. The '14 Finals was a blowout in terms of point differential, but you have to remember a couple things. Miami went into Game 3 stealing home court from the Spurs, so they had the upper hand in the series. Also, they were up by quite a bit in Game 1 late in the game also, so it could have been 2-0 Miami pretty easily. But then the Spurs put on the greatest offensive display of all time in the first half of Game 3 and then didn't look back. It came down to pretty much the Spurs raising their level of Ball movement to an unprecedented level and shots falling.

[guy]

Yes and it was beautiful to see. The Spurs were focused and they prepared all year for Miami. They were ready by the time the Finals rolled around. They had already figured out the puzzle. That's why Duncan felt comfortable predicting that they would beat the Heat (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e1xnzx55JQ) before Game 1 of the Finals -- one of my favorite basketball moments.

Pretty sure Lebron started to feel cramps at that very moment :oldlol:

[GrapeApe]

Cause Wade was dogshit in 2014




Don't get me wrong, he was dogshit in 2013 as well outside of Game 4, but in 2014 not only was he bad offensively, his defense fell off a cliff.

Wade averaged 24/6/5/2/2 on 49% in games 4-7 in 2013, including 23/10 on 52% in game 7. Pop himself even said that Wade's resurgance in the final 4 games was a big reason the Heat won.

[WayOfWade]

Literally everything about Miami was worse in 2014. They lost Mike Miller, Bosh along with Wade and Allen (and Battier, pretty much everyone) all took a step back, LeBron's years wasn't as good as 2013, their defense as a whole took a hit, and fatigue certainly didn't help

[ArbitraryWater]

Battier/Allen/Miller/Jones/Lewis were all one leg in retirement center... Douglas wasnt even NBA caliber. Wade and Chalmers were dog shit.

It was literally all LeBron.

[GrapeApe]

The '13 Finals should have been over in 6, obviously. The '14 Finals was a blowout in terms of point differential, but you have to remember a couple things. Miami went into Game 3 stealing home court from the Spurs, so they had the upper hand in the series. Also, they were up by quite a bit in Game 1 late in the game also, so it could have been 2-0 Miami pretty easily. But then the Spurs put on the greatest offensive display of all time in the first half of Game 3 and then didn't look back. It came down to pretty much the Spurs raising their level of Ball movement to an unprecedented level and shots falling.

Yep, the Spurs jumped to another level after game 2, a level that few teams in history have reached. Even as a Heat fan it was hard not to be in awe. As a Heat fan it was sickening, but as a pure basketball fan it was a thing of beauty.

[Gone_Fishin]

Losers talking about Miami and LeBron when obviously it's because the Spurs turned it up to a level about as high as any team in NBA history has played.

That's why you're all ******s.

[Magic 32]

The Heat were lucky to get the split.

Once Kawhi learned to cope with the pressure and just play (game 3 2014), it was all over for the Heat.

[guy]

And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).


This is pretty astounding. I'm not sure they would've won the series, but 17 shot attempts in the Finals from someone who can clearly get more and has shot more when needed is an issue. I remember seeing some stat where in most Finals of the past 30 years or so, the winning team almost always had someone taking notably more shots. I highly doubt it would've been such a one-sided series if he was more aggressive. He seems to get a huge pass for this. Its almost like 2011 lowered his own standards so if it wasn't as bad as that, people give him a pass :oldlol: .

[miggyme1]

Why were the '13 finals competitive while the '14 finals were a complete drubbing? :confusedshrug: Both teams were essentially the same both years.

I realize the Heat were a year older, but the Spurs were also older.


watch game 6 of the 2013 finals....pay attention to the way that game ended and then you will have the answer to your question.

[aj1987]

In 2013, the Spurs altered their normal defense to guard Lebron (sagging off, double-teaming, etc), but it didn't quite work.

In 2014, the Spurs realized that Lebron's style (at the time) was to pursue high efficiency, which resulted in low shot attempts that he didn't increase even when he was single-covered.. Without the need to double-team him, the Spurs stayed at home and locked down his teammates.



Indeed - Lebron and the Heat's pursuit of efficiency was unbelievably dumb and DIDN'T WORK - the Heat shot better against the Spurs than any other Spurs' opponent (DAL, POR, OKC), yet they lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.

Why is this?.. Because the Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, regardless of efficiency.

DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course - Miami - with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..



Horseshit - in 2014 playoffs, Wade averaged 18 ppg on 50%, Bosh averaged 15 ppg and Ray Allen 10 ppg - that's more help than MJ ever had.. Pippen only averaged 17 ppg on 41% during entire 1996-1998 playoffs.

Furthermore, Lebron's poor defense in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..

And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).

MJ would've won the 2014 Finals because his defense wouldn't let a role player become > Duncan, and he would've had the necessary offensive aggression (30+ shot attempts) to attract defensive attention away from teammates.
FOH, you boxscore watching autistic nerd. Literally 99% of what you posted is absolute horseshit. MJ would've won 1 more game MAX.


To answer OP's question, the '14 Spurs basically game planned for the Finals. They were built to beat the Heat. That coupled with Wade's retarded "maintenance program", which left him overweight and completely gassed by the Finals were the most important factors. Oh, and Miami was also the oldest team in the league at 31 years. Spurs were 29. Not much defense is going to be played when half the players are past their primes. The team also used to rely on trapping style defense and quick changes. Needs athleticism to do that. Watch the '11-'13 Heat. When they were focused, it felt like the team was an ATG level defensive team. Just beautiful.



watch game 6 of the 2013 finals....pay attention to the way that game ended and then you will have the answer to your question.
Yep. 16 points on 7-10 shooting in the 4th.


This is pretty astounding. I'm not sure they would've won the series, but 17 shot attempts in the Finals from someone who can clearly get more and has shot more when needed is an issue. I remember seeing some stat where in most Finals of the past 30 years or so, the winning team almost always had someone taking notably more shots. I highly doubt it would've been such a one-sided series if he was more aggressive. He seems to get a huge pass for this. Its almost like 2011 lowered his own standards so if it wasn't as bad as that, people give him a pass :oldlol: .
Where does he magically get all those extra shots from? Wade only rook like 12 shots a game and Bosh took around 10 shots a game. Lesser than what they took in the RS. LeBron took more shots in the Finals than he did in the first 3 rounds and the RS.

[AintNoSunshine]

Wade

[plowking]

People really overestimate how good those Heat teams were. Heat were really average going into the finals in 13 after really doing well in the regular season, and they were the best of the worst in 14.

Wade and Bosh were shocking in 14.

[3ball]

Not much defense is going to be played when half the players are past their primes.


Wow, you're blind to the facts - the Heat's bad defense started with LEBRON - as the leader, Lebron sets the defensive tone and intensity level for the team.

Lebron's poor effort in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..

And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).

MJ would've won the 2014 Finals because his defense wouldn't let a role player become > Duncan, and he would've had the necessary offensive aggression (30+ shot attempts) to attract defensive attention away from teammates.

[Hey Yo]

Wow, you're blind to the facts - the Heat's bad defense started with LEBRON - as the leader, Lebron sets the defensive tone and intensity level for the team.

Lebron's poor effort in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..

And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).

MJ would've won the 2014 Finals because his defense wouldn't let a role player become > Duncan, and he would've had the necessary offensive aggression (30+ shot attempts) to attract defensive attention away from teammates.
Not if it was his 4th straight Finals appearance cause everyone knows MJ quits the league after his 3rd straight.

[3ball]

Not if it was his 4th straight Finals appearance cause everyone knows MJ quits the league after his 3rd straight.
http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2014/06/22/22-ronaldo-laugh.w529.h352.gif

[Indian guy]

The style of defense Miami plays, which is a lot of trapping and recovering, requires a ridiculous amount of energy. You need young, fresh legs, something Miami clearly didn't possess by 2014. Just look at their defensive numbers during that 4 year span.

2011 -3.8 (5th)
2012 -4.4 (4th)
2013 -2.2 (9th)
2014 -0.9 (11th)

Their defense had fallen off a cliff by 2014. And it was even worse in the playoffs. All 3 of their opponents in the first 3 rounds scored well above their season averages. It wasn't just SA that went nuts against them, everybody did. Miami was pretty much getting by with their ridiculous offense by 2014. But that only works against flawed opponents. The '14 Spurs had a GOAT-level offense to go along with elite defense. They entered the series as significant favorites for a reason. And thoroughly exposed what most should've already known - Miami's D stunk.

[Labissiere]

Only Games 1, 6, and 7 were competitive in the 13 Finals.

I think the drop off was because the Spurs were just far more determined and the Heat dropped off defensively from the 3 seasons before.
This.

[rmt]

Besides Wade playing like a cowardly little bitch, the Heat were the much older team. Everyone tried to pretend like the Spurs were old, but other than Duncan and Manu (2 role players) who on that Spurs team was old? :confusedshrug:
The Heat were trying to win with 36 year old Birdman, along with the corpses of Ray Allen, Shane Battier, and Rashard Lewis. :lol :facepalm
How Lebron even got that retirement home roster to the Finals is just a testament to his greatness. :bowdown:

Duncan 2013 Finals
18.9 pts 12.1 rebs 1.4 asst 1.4 blk

That's not role player performance. If they had won game 6, Duncan would have gotten FMVP.


Losers talking about Miami and LeBron when obviously it's because the Spurs turned it up to a level about as high as any team in NBA history has played.

That's why you're all ******s.


Yep, the Spurs jumped to another level after game 2, a level that few teams in history have reached. Even as a Heat fan it was hard not to be in awe. As a Heat fan it was sickening, but as a pure basketball fan it was a thing of beauty.

[Papaya Petee]

Wow, you're blind to the facts - the Heat's bad defense started with LEBRON - as the leader, Lebron sets the defensive tone and intensity level for the team.

Lebron's poor effort in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..

And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).

MJ would've won the 2014 Finals because his defense wouldn't let a role player become > Duncan, and he would've had the necessary offensive aggression (30+ shot attempts) to attract defensive attention away from teammates.

No he wouldn't have, you ignorant ******. There is a reason why NOBODY else shares that opinion with you. Why can't you just stop being a ****** hater and recognize the Spurs for being an All-Time great team, playing probably the most beautiful team basketball in NBA history during that NBA finals.
Wade had huge injury and cardio issues due to that horrible maintenance program. Bosh played horrific, and all of our role players were a year older and on their last legs. Miami wasn't that good in 2014.
Nobody in the history of the NBA replaces LeBron that year and beats that Spurs team. Nobody. Now go play in the sandbox.

[3ball]

No he wouldn't have, you ignorant ******.


You're blind to the facts.

Lebron's poor effort in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..


^^^ Jordan would've done this (held Kawhi to his regular stats)


And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).


^^^ Jordan would've done this (had the proper offensive aggression)


There's a reason Jordan was 6/6 - because he DID these things, while Lebron didn't do them (i.e. not play defense.... and shoot too little like in 2014, or too horribly like in 2015).

[miggyme1]

You're blind to the facts.

Lebron's poor effort in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..


^^^ Jordan would've done this (held Kawhi to his regular stats)


And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).


^^^ Jordan would've done this (had the proper offensive aggression)


There's a reason Jordan was 6/6 - because he DID these things, while Lebron didn't do them (i.e. not play defense.... and shoot too little like in 2014, or too horribly like in 2015).


Jordan wouldn't have done shit....you keep forgetting the rules were different back then.....no handchecking....you literally could use your strength back in the day if you didn't have the speed or quickness to keep up with a guy. .....benefited Jordan and every other aging player in that era. Jordan and one of his bulls teams would have beat the spurs but if you replace LeBron with Jordan......Jordan would have lost just like lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

You're blind to the facts.

Lebron's poor effort in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..


^^^ Jordan would've done this (held Kawhi to his regular stats)


And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).


^^^ Jordan would've done this (had the proper offensive aggression)


There's a reason Jordan was 6/6 - because he DID these things, while Lebron didn't do them (i.e. not play defense.... and shoot too little like in 2014, or too horribly like in 2015).

Jordan's the GOAT, but he's not overcoming the Spurs phenomenal play and the Heat's absolutely abysmal performance. It can't be understated how terrible they all played.

LeBron leaves Game 1, Heat are down just 94-92 with 4 minutes to go. Spurs go on a 16-3 run to end the game. Dude leaves for 4 minutes and his team isn't even remotely competitive

Game 4, literally everybody plays like shit
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201406120MIA.html

Game 5, literally everybody plays like shit
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201406150SAS.html

Basketball is a team sport, and one player, no matter how great he is, is overcoming such a disparity in play between two teams

[3ball]

Jordan's the GOAT, but he's not overcoming the Spurs phenomenal play and the Heat's absolutely abysmal performance.

It can't be understated how terrible they all played.


That's the biggest reason Jordan would've beaten the Spurs - in ADDITION to Jordan's better defense and offensive aggression, teammates played much better alongside Jordan than Lebron.

After all, the Spurs were not MORE talented than the Heat - they simply played a superior brand of basketball, so all the Heat needed was better chemistry.. Jordan fostered that superior chemistry - you realize that Jordan and Lebron's playing styles ARE very different?

Lebron reduces his teammates' PPG and APG, while turning them into play-finishers (higher assisted rates) - this is statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841).. So it's no surprise that their predictable play-finishing roles don't succeed against the best playoff teams - the story is ALWAYS about how Lebron's teammates underperformed when it mattered.

Otoh, the PPG of Jordan's teammates remained steady alongside him, while their assists and playmaking INCREASED - they played to full capacity next to him.. So it's no surprise that his teammates had greater capacity to play well against the best playoff teams.

The greater chemistry that Jordan fostered was a stark contrast to the doomed play-finishing roles that Lebron forces upon his teammates.. A Jordan-led Heat team would play totally differently, and be a completely different team.

[rmt]

San Antonio dominated Miami in just about every conceivable category in those final three games: overall shooting percentage (54.2 percent to 45.2 percent), 3-point shooting percentage (44.8 percent to 38.2 percent), field goal percentage in the paint (65.6 percent to 53 percent). The Spurs dished the ball out for 71 assists to Miami's 44. They outrebounded the Heat 113-94. They even shot more free throws (80-71).

According to Basketball-Reference, the Spurs' offensive rating for Games 3-5 of the Finals (124.9) is the best on record for the past 29 seasons. The 1999-2000 Pacers (120.2) and the 1986-87 Celtics (120.2), each of whom lost the title in the years referenced, were tied for second.

But perhaps the most impressive stat is the bluntest of all: Over the previous three seasons, a span of 293 regular-season and playoff games, the Heat had not once lost three straight games in regulation with LeBron in the lineup. The Spurs not only won the last three games of the 2014 Finals but beat the Heat by an average of more than 19 points a game.

Pacers president and Celtics legend Larry Bird was on that 1987 Celtics team whose offensive rating the Spurs eclipsed in 2014. And Bird, for his part, says the Spurs' performance ranks at least among the best of all time.
"It's right up there," Bird says. "I know Pop doesn't like to say much, but he had to be thrilled to death with what happened. I'm sure they all went back and said, 'Man, we'll never top this.'"

Or, as a defeated LeBron James said, after Game 5: "That's team basketball. It's selfless. Guys move, cut, pass. You've got a shot, you take it. But it's all for the team. It's never about the individual. That's their brand of basketball, and that's how team basketball should be played."

And then it was over. LeBron -- gone. Battier -- retired. Wade and Bosh? Left to pick up the pieces along with Heat president Pat Riley, who saluted the Spurs for staying together in the wake of devastating disappointment, something his own superstar chose not to do.

"They found their nirvana through their adversity," Riley says. "That doesn't happen often like that, when you lose the way they did in 2013. It usually destroys a team, makes them go the other way, especially when there's aging. They played three of the greatest games that anybody has ever played. That's what it takes. It takes that kind of adversity and great players and, most importantly, mature, grown-up individuals who have been in the profession a long time, who can take the game of basketball to another level. But that's what they did."

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/page/PresentsSpursHeat/how-spurs-2014-finals-performance-changed-nba-forever

[guy]

Where does he magically get all those extra shots from? Wade only rook like 12 shots a game and Bosh took around 10 shots a game. Lesser than what they took in the RS. LeBron took more shots in the Finals than he did in the first 3 rounds and the RS.

Outside of the big 3, the rest of the team averaged 30 shots per game. Thats where those extra shots come from. Its the NBA finals. Superstars are supposed to carry more of the load then they did in other situations. On top of that he only took 6 FTAs per game, further indicating his lack of aggressiveness. This is what his efficiency approach hides. He might be more efficient, but the team as a whole probably would be more efficient if he was individually less efficient on more shots while taking some of the shots that guys like Norris Cole and Chris Anderson are taking. You can't really complain that much about his help when he doesn't seem to take notice and adjusts his game to be more aggressive. Furthermore, that aggressiveness rubs off on teammates and helps them get easier shots, getting them more into rhythm.

Like I said, not saying they would've definitely won, but clearly it wouldn't have been such a one-sided series. There's been around 70 NBA finals, and this is the biggest blowout series in Finals history. How does he get a complete pass for that? :oldlol: Furthermore, he's shown he's capable of doing better with a much more inferior team.

[Da_Realist]

The Spurs pinpoint passing was the perfect solution to the Heat's overly-aggressive, trapping defense. The ball moves faster than a player. The Spurs countered the Heat's best weapon and the Heat gave up. They didn't counter. They didn't try anything new. They didn't lay it all on the line. They were the bully that finally got hit in the mouth and went home crying. The Spurs took their heart.

No way MJ goes out like that. Especially after seeing Duncan guarantee the victory. One thing we can say is, an MJ-led team would have either won or they would have died on the court. We would have seen more effort and more competitiveness.

[3ball]

San Antonio dominated Miami


^^^^ This wasn't due to superior talent - the Spurs were not more talented than the Heat.

They simply had better chemistry and played a superior brand of basketball - so Lebron needed to foster better CHEMISTRY, not more supporting talent.





But perhaps the most impressive stat is the bluntest of all:


In 21 out of the 25 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots.

So the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would've done more, is poppycock - 21 out of the last 24 did more.

:biggums:





Spurs' performance ranks at least among the best of all time.


The Spurs ONLY played that way against the Heat - they ONLY had crazy ORtg vs. the Heat.

OKC, DAL and POR held the Spurs down to reasonable ORtg's - not coincidentally, they also held Kawhi to his regular stats - about 12 ppg on 45%.

Otoh, Lebron let Kawhi go OFF and be the best offensive player for the Spurs, which unlocked their GOAT chemistry that we didn't see against OKC, DAL or Portland.

These are the facts.





Or, as a defeated LeBron James said, after Game 5: "That's team basketball. That's their brand of basketball, and that's how team basketball should be played."


^^^^ Why couldn't the Heat play "team" basketball?

It's because Lebron reduces his teammates APG (playmaking), while increasing their assisted rates (play-finishing) - he turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers.. This is statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841).

Unfortunately, by reducing teammates to play-finishers, Lebron promotes a sophomoric brand of basketball that can't succeed against the best playoff teams, who invariably play a superior brand of basketball.. Guys like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw are tasked with MAKING PLAYS for the Spurs - they aren't just play-finishers like Shumpert and JR Smith (who are actually more talented).

Futhermore, the supporting cast's predictable play-finishing roles don't work against the best playoff teams, which causes them to routinely underperform and play undercapacity in the Finals (the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates played poorly when it mattered) - since Lebron's teammates play undercapacity against the best teams, the TEAM plays undercapacity/underperforms (i.e. losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or losing when it was 50/50 - 2014 Finals (http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_o r_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch .html)).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. It's because he employs a point guard style from the forward position - this adds a 2nd low-assisted, high time of possession player IN ADDITION to the existing point guard, which gives teammates less opportunity to assist and less time with the ball than other teams whose forwards have normal assisted rates and time of possession.

That's the difference between 2/6 and 6/6.. MJ got the most out of his teammates - he elevated teammates so the team played to full capacity and never lost as the favorite.. Otoh, Lebron reduces teammates to play-finishers, which leads to team underperformance and losing as the favorite.

[greatest-ever]

People are dumb to act like Wade was the whole reason. He was part of it but even if he played at his prime level it probably wouldn't have been enough. The Spurs were just ridiculously hot in the last 3 games and Heat couldn't counter on either end.

[rmt]

^^^^ This wasn't due to superior talent - the Spurs were not more talented than the Heat.

They simply had better chemistry and played a superior brand of basketball - so Lebron needed to foster better CHEMISTRY, not more supporting talent.



In 21 out of the 25 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots.

So the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would've done more, is poppycock - 21 out of the last 24 did more.

:biggums:



The Spurs ONLY played that way against the Heat - they ONLY had crazy ORtg vs. the Heat.

OKC, DAL and POR held the Spurs down to reasonable ORtg's - not coincidentally, they also held Kawhi to his regular stats - about 12 ppg on 45%.

Otoh, Lebron let Kawhi go OFF and be the best offensive player for the Spurs, which unlocked their GOAT chemistry that we didn't see against OKC, DAL or Portland.

These are the facts.



^^^^ Why couldn't the Heat play "team" basketball?

It's because Lebron reduces his teammates APG (playmaking), while increasing their assisted rates (play-finishing) - he turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers.. This is statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841).

Unfortunately, by reducing teammates to play-finishers, Lebron promotes a sophomoric brand of basketball that can't succeed against the best playoff teams, who invariably play a superior brand of basketball.. Guys like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw are tasked with MAKING PLAYS for the Spurs - they aren't just play-finishers like Shumpert and JR Smith (who are actually more talented).

Futhermore, the supporting cast's predictable play-finishing roles don't work against the best playoff teams, which causes them to routinely underperform and play undercapacity in the Finals (the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates played poorly when it mattered) - since Lebron's teammates play undercapacity against the best teams, the TEAM plays undercapacity/underperforms (i.e. losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or losing when it was 50/50 - 2014 Finals (http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_o r_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch .html)).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. It's because he employs a point guard style from the forward position - this adds a 2nd low-assisted, high time of possession player IN ADDITION to the existing point guard, which gives teammates less opportunity to assist and less time with the ball than other teams whose forwards have normal assisted rates and time of possession.

That's the difference between 2/6 and 6/6.. MJ got the most out of his teammates - he elevated teammates so the team played to full capacity and never lost as the favorite.. Otoh, Lebron reduces teammates to play-finishers, which leads to team underperformance and losing as the favorite.

Why do you refuse to give credit where credit is due? Those Finals were not about Lebron (or MJ). The Spurs just played EXTREMELY well. There were 2 quarters where they basically just didn't miss. Almost every Spur played well - as a team, as a unit, as a well-oiled machine.

The key to beating those Spurs is what Carlyle did - defend them one on one - no swarming, no doubling - man to man - force a Spur to create a play, go iso. No single Spur was good enough for that but as a team with that beautiful passing, they were basically unstoppable.

[3ball]

Why do you refuse to give credit where credit is due?


Because the Spurs ONLY played that way against the Heat - they ONLY had crazy ORtg vs. the Heat.

OKC, DAL and POR held the Spurs down to reasonable ORtg's - not coincidentally, they also held Kawhi to his regular stats - about 12 ppg on 45%.

Otoh, Lebron let Kawhi go OFF and be the best offensive player for the Spurs, which unlocked their GOAT chemistry that we didn't see against OKC, DAL or Portland.

Miami has no excuse for their horrific defense because POR and DAL had horrific defenses - among the worst in the league... Your problem is that you want to believe the Spurs great play just sort of just...... happened... For you, there's no rhyme or reason for it, which is obviously bullshit and a 3rd grade, immature way to think about the situation.





No single Spur was good enough for that but as a team with that beautiful passing, they were basically unstoppable.


And that's my point - the Spurs didn't beat the Heat with talent.. They won with better chemistry/passing - so Lebron needed to foster better chemistry and team passing, not more supporting talent.

So why couldn't the Heat pass better?.. :facepalm... :oldlol: .... I'm saying that as a joke - we know Lebron reduces his teammates' playmaking (lower APG), while turning them into play-finishers (higher assisted rates) - this is statistical fact (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) - he literally achieves his own playmaking by reducing the playmaking of teammates.

So it's no surprise that the Heat were a worse passing team than the Spurs and played a worse brand of basketball - this is typically the case with Lebron's teams.. His teams are NEVER considered one of the "smart" teams that plays amazing team ball, like the Warriors, Spurs, 90's Bulls or Jazz.. And it's no surprise his teammates' predictable play-finishing roles don't succeed against the best playoff teams (it isn't Wade's fault his play-finishing role prevents him from playing to full capacity against the best teams).

Otoh, the PPG of Jordan's teammates remained steady alongside him and their APG increased - they played to full capacity next to him and their playmaking opportunities were higher... So it's no surprise that his teammates had greater capacity to play well against the best playoff teams.

The greater chemistry that Jordan fostered was a stark contrast to the doomed play-finishing roles that Lebron forces upon his teammates.. A Jordan-led Heat team would play totally differently, and be a completely different team.

[Lebron23]

Only LeBron showed up in the 2014 NBA Finals.

[3ball]

Only LeBron showed up in the 2014 NBA Finals.


In the Finals, Lebron is ALWAYS the only guy that shows up for his team because he reduces his teammates to predictable play-finishing roles that can't succeed against the best playoff teams.

It isn't Wade's fault that his play-finishing role prevents him from playing to full capacity against the best teams... Ditto Bosh, Mo Williams, Larry Hughes and many more.





Only LeBron showed up in the 2014 NBA Finals.


Not on defense.

Remember, the Spurs played amazing with record ORtg's against the Heat ONLY... OKC, DAL and POR held the Spurs to regular ORtg's - not coincidentally, they also held Kawhi to his regular stats - about 12 ppg on 45%.

Otoh, Lebron let Kawhi go OFF and be the best offensive player for the Spurs, which unlocked their GOAT chemistry and ORtg that we didn't see against OKC, DAL or Portland.

[Hey Yo]

In 21 out of the 25 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots.

So the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would've done more, is poppycock - 21 out of the last 24 did more.
How many of those 21 led the team in MP, PTS, TRB, ASST for the entire same postseason while playing in their 4th straight Finals?

[Spurs5Rings2014]

2ball literally copy/pastes his same post over and over and over again pretending like he's saying something new. Even if what he's saying is accurate, dude is just spamming at this point.

:biggums:

[aj1987]

Wow, you're blind to the facts - the Heat's bad defense started with LEBRON - as the leader, Lebron sets the defensive tone and intensity level for the team.
I'm blind to the facts? I actually watched the series, you dick munching retard. I'm not the one basing my arguments off of box scores.


Lebron's poor effort in the Finals allowed Kawhi to get 18 ppg on 61%.. If he held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45% like OKC and DAL did, then the Heat would've been competitive like those teams were..
:facepalm

Basketball doesn't work like that, 0ball. Kawhi scored 9 points in the first two games on 43%. Dude just got ridiculously hot in the final 3 games. You do know that TP was their leading scorer and that he shot 42% from 3, right? Manu as well. Timmy was still 15 points a game 57%. What happened there? As I said, the team was just too old and fatigued. They didn't have the luxury of taking 2 seasons off like MJ before playing in the 4th Finals.


And the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors).
WHERE DOES LEBRON GET THE EXTRA SHOTS FROM?

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.


MJ would've won the 2014 Finals because his defense wouldn't let a role player become > Duncan, and he would've had the necessary offensive aggression (30+ shot attempts) to attract defensive attention away from teammates.
:roll: :roll:

MJ would take 30+ shots a game, when the team only attempts 70 shots a game? Cool.

BTW, MJ would run to Pippen and ask him to guard Kawhi when he starts taking a massive shit on MJ.

[3ball]

Basketball doesn't work like that, 0ball. Kawhi scored 9 points in the first two games on 43%. Dude just got ridiculously hot in the final 3 games.


We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.

That's TWO years in a row, so Kawhi didn't "just get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Btw, every other team held Kawhi down in 2014 playoffs EXCEPT the Heat.

So yeah - basketball DOES work like that and you're just making pathetic excuses because your favorite player performed poorly.





They are not going to magically get more possessions.

WHERE DOES LEBRON GET THE EXTRA SHOTS FROM?



From his teammates.

But once the Spurs see that Lebron is taking many shots and going for a big game, they will bring double-teams, which opens things up for Wade/Bosh.. But instead, Lebron only took 18 shots per game (in pursuit of high efficiency), which allowed the Spurs to stay at home on teammates and control game flow.

But you're right in one respect - Lebron takes too long to score.. If he could play off-ball like Jordan and had Jordan's superior scoring ability, he'd score much quicker, leading to more possessions and a completely different (superior) game flow.





In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.


21 shots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... OMG...... 21 SHOTS!!!!...... :facepalm

Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387721





BTW, MJ would run to Pippen and ask him to guard Kawhi when he starts taking a massive shit on MJ.


Pippen would be guarding Kawhi from the beginning, since they both play SF.

But MJ would eventually take over and lock Kawhi down, just like he did to Penny in 1996 ECF - Penny averaged 25 ppg on Pippen, but was exactly 1-5 with 3 TO vs. Jordan the entire series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtNOjco8yQ
.

[thefatmiral]

Spurs should have won both. But Manu was left in to throw the game away.

[thefatmiral]

Duncan 2013 Finals
18.9 pts 12.1 rebs 1.4 asst 1.4 blk

That's not role player performance. If they had won game 6, Duncan would have gotten FMVP.
He absolutely would have and that's what annoys me. Could have rode into the sunset 5/5 with another fmpv.

[Dray n Klay]

He absolutely would have and that's what annoys me. Could have rode into the sunset 5/5 with another fmpv.

But he also got a FMVP that he didnt deserve in 2005, so it cancels out

[rmt]

But he also got a FMVP that he didnt deserve in 2005, so it cancels out

Duncan depleted and dissected the Pistons, collecting 25 points and 11 rebounds. He was the fulcrum of virtually every key play down the stretch.

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

http://web.archive.org/web/20090219212308/http://www.nba.com/games/20050623/DETSAS/recap.html

[GrapeApe]

The funny thing about 3ball, for a guy who claims to unterstand the game he has zero understanding of concepts such as styles, strategy, philosophy, matchups, team defense vs individual defense, and team offense vs individual offense.

The guy gives ZERO credit to the Spurs. He continually says Lebron "let" Leonard have a great series, when in reality almost none of Leonard's damage came directly against Lebron. Individual defense had very little to do with anything. He talks about how Leonard and the Spurs only went off against the Heat, but fails to recognize that the Heat played a very different style of defense than those other opponents. The Spurs offense was the kryptonie to Miami's defensive philosophy. Portland, Dallas, and OKC may have had worse defenses on paper, but their styles matched up better with the Spurs' offense.

To summarize, in 3ball's simple mind if two players play the same position they are directly responsible for each other's productivity. Team offense/defense doesn't exist. It's all about one on one matchups. Every style and strategy matches up identically. Basketball is played in a vacuum and there's no such thing as matchup variance. It's unheard of for a player to have a a better playoff series than the one prior, and if it happens it's 100% the fault of one player. No credit can be given to a player or team for playing well.

Copy and paste on the way.

[3ball]

almost none of Leonard's damage came directly against Lebron.


What a joke - here's a video of Kawhi taking Lebron over and over and over in the 2014 Finals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdg7dHYVvMc


More footage of Lebron's horrible defense in 2014 Finals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKUCE_5H7Iw





The guy gives ZERO credit to the Spurs.


We know it wasn't random coincidence that Kawhi went off in 2014 Finals because Lebron let his defensive assignment go off in the 2015 Finals AS WELL - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.

That's TWO years in a row where Lebron's defensive assignment got FMVP.

It isn't like Kawhi was a good offensive player at the time - Dallas, OKC and Portland held Kawhi to his regular stats (12 ppg on 45%)... But Kawhi got 18 ppg on 61% vs. Lebron, including 24 ppg on 69% in the last 3 games (when Lebron had GIVEN UP, what a weak-minded pus sy)

[aj1987]

We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.
:biggums:

You didn't watch the Finals, retard. You don't get to comment on it, going off of basketball-ref.


That's TWO years in a row, so Kawhi didn't "just get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Btw, every other team held Kawhi down in 2014 playoffs EXCEPT the Heat.
So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?


So yeah - basketball DOES work like that and you're just making pathetic excuses because your favorite player performed poorly.
Actually, Wade is my favorite player and he did play like shit in the '14 Finals.




From his teammates.
I still don't think you know how basketball works. Also, funny how you ignored the rest of the post like always, bitch.

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.





But once the Spurs see that Lebron is taking many shots and going for a big game, they will bring double-teams, which opens things up for Wade/Bosh.. But instead, Lebron only took 18 shots per game (in pursuit of high efficiency), which allowed the Spurs to stay at home on teammates and control game flow.
Again, you didn't watch the series, so you literally have no idea what ACTUALLY happened.


But you're right in one respect - Lebron takes too long to score.. If he could play off-ball like Jordan and had Jordan's superior scoring ability, he'd score much quicker, leading to more possessions and a completely different (superior) game flow.
You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:
1989 ECF, Game 5.

I guess MJ should've taken 30+ shots a game that series. The Bulls probably would've won, instead of losing in 6.


But MJ would eventually take over and lock Kawhi down, just like he did to Penny in 1996 ECF - Penny averaged 25 ppg on Pippen, but was exactly 1-5 with 3 TO vs. Jordan the entire series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtNOjco8yQ
.
That sample size. :eek: :eek:

As I said, Pippen would be the primary defender on Kawhi. Dude would take a massive steaming dump on MJ.

[3ball]

I guess MJ should've taken 30+ shots a game that series. The Bulls probably would've won, instead of losing in 6.


Jordan's individual performance came up short for a couple games in that series.

But I can't blame him that much - the "Jordan Rules" strategy was to double-team him on EVERY POSSESSION during various stretches, particularly in the 4th quarter.. Here's an example from Game 6 of 1989 ECF, starting with 9 minutes left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s) - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately - here's all 10 double-teams in gifs:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88



In comparison to Jordan getting doubled 10+ times in a single quarter, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire Finals:


"When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team





Where does Lebron's additional shots come from?... The Heat can't magically get more possessions


So for EVERY SINGLE GAME EVER, no player could've taken more or less shots.... gtfo..... Lebron's 18 shots per game was a huge mistake - his main objective was efficiency over PPG, which was really, really, really dumb:

The Heat shot the best against the Spurs of any Spurs' opponent, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was raw PPG:

DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..

The Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.

[Da_Realist]

You can make fun of 3Ball or disagree with his points or dislike his posting tactics but he at least analyzes the game and backs up what he says with video and statistics. Agree or disagree, that's better than most people that post here.

[aj1987]

Jordan's individual performance came up short for a couple games in that series.
He came up short in several other areas as well.


But I can't blame him that much - the "Jordan Rules" strategy was to double-team him on EVERY POSSESSION during various stretches, particularly in the 4th quarter.. Here's an example from Game 6 of 1989 ECF, starting with 9 minutes left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s) - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately - here's all 10 double-teams in gifs:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88
In comparison to Jordan getting doubled 10+ times in a single quarter, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire Finals:
"When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team
In short, when LeBron sucked, his entire team was worse than shit. Meh, the Bulls replaced MJ with a role-player and they still were amazing.


So for EVERY SINGLE GAME EVER, no player could've taken more or less shots.... gtfo..... Lebron's 18 shots per game was a huge mistake - his main objective was efficiency over PPG, which was really, really, really dumb:
Ok....? How would you know that? You didn't watch the series. In fact, you haven't watched basketball ever.


The Heat shot the best against the Spurs of any Spurs' opponent, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was raw PPG:
Might have something to do with Spurs shooting lights out.


DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..
Wait. So you're blaming the game plan now? Sounds like it was more of Spos' fault.


The Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.
Do you even know what you're posting right now, you ****ing retard? Go back to mastrubating to MJ highlights.

BTW, try to reply to any of these:

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.

So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?

You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.




You can make fun of 3Ball or disagree with his points or dislike his posting tactics but he at least analyzes the game and backs up what he says with video and statistics. Agree or disagree, that's better than most people that post here.
I'm just going to assume that you're being sarcastic, because literally no one can be this dumb. The guy ADMITTEDLY hasn't watched basketball in over 5 years. I'm 100% sure that he wasn't even like 5 years old when MJ won his last. Literally all his arguments are based off of stats and spamming the same shit over and over. Oh, and not to mention him ignoring all parts of a reply which DESTROY his post. One of the worst posters on here.

You should probably change your name to Da_Denialist.

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[aj1987]

:rolleyes:
Stick to ignoring everything that burns your soul, 0ball. Better yet, go back to mastrubating to MJ's highlights.

[3ball]

You should probably change your name to Da_Denialist.


:biggums: ... You're knocking this guy?... He simply appreciated the data I provided.

I provided data showing Lebron was double-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the 2015 Finals, and then I provided gifs and game footage showing that MJ was double-teamed 10+ times in a single QUARTER.

[aj1987]

Jordan's individual performance came up short for a couple games in that series.
He came up short in several other areas as well.


But I can't blame him that much - the "Jordan Rules" strategy was to double-team him on EVERY POSSESSION during various stretches, particularly in the 4th quarter.. Here's an example from Game 6 of 1989 ECF, starting with 9 minutes left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s) - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately - here's all 10 double-teams in gifs:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88
In comparison to Jordan getting doubled 10+ times in a single quarter, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire Finals:
"When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team
In short, when LeBron sucked, his entire team was worse than shit. Meh, the Bulls replaced MJ with a role-player and they still were amazing.


So for EVERY SINGLE GAME EVER, no player could've taken more or less shots.... gtfo..... Lebron's 18 shots per game was a huge mistake - his main objective was efficiency over PPG, which was really, really, really dumb:
Ok....? How would you know that? You didn't watch the series. In fact, you haven't watched basketball ever.


The Heat shot the best against the Spurs of any Spurs' opponent, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was raw PPG:
Might have something to do with Spurs shooting lights out.


DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..
Wait. So you're blaming the game plan now? Sounds like it was more of Spos' fault.


The Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.
Do you even know what you're posting right now, you ****ing retard? Go back to mastrubating to MJ highlights.

BTW, try to reply to any of these:

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.

So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?

You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.




We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.
:biggums:

You didn't watch the Finals, retard. You don't get to comment on it, going off of basketball-ref.


That's TWO years in a row, so Kawhi didn't "just get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Btw, every other team held Kawhi down in 2014 playoffs EXCEPT the Heat.
So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?


So yeah - basketball DOES work like that and you're just making pathetic excuses because your favorite player performed poorly.
Actually, Wade is my favorite player and he did play like shit in the '14 Finals.




From his teammates.
I still don't think you know how basketball works. Also, funny how you ignored the rest of the post like always, bitch.

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.





But once the Spurs see that Lebron is taking many shots and going for a big game, they will bring double-teams, which opens things up for Wade/Bosh.. But instead, Lebron only took 18 shots per game (in pursuit of high efficiency), which allowed the Spurs to stay at home on teammates and control game flow.
Again, you didn't watch the series, so you literally have no idea what ACTUALLY happened.


But you're right in one respect - Lebron takes too long to score.. If he could play off-ball like Jordan and had Jordan's superior scoring ability, he'd score much quicker, leading to more possessions and a completely different (superior) game flow.
You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:
1989 ECF, Game 5.

I guess MJ should've taken 30+ shots a game that series. The Bulls probably would've won, instead of losing in 6.


But MJ would eventually take over and lock Kawhi down, just like he did to Penny in 1996 ECF - Penny averaged 25 ppg on Pippen, but was exactly 1-5 with 3 TO vs. Jordan the entire series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtNOjco8yQ
.
That sample size. :eek: :eek:

As I said, Pippen would be the primary defender on Kawhi. Dude would take a massive steaming dump on MJ.

[3ball]

Dude - I provided NEW answers to all your points, but I guess you didn't read them, so you just re-posted your old shit.

I'm going to redo the post so your satisfied that I answered your points... Gimme 30 sec

[3ball]

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.


Your post is saying that once a game or series is finished, the shots are fixed - no player on either team COULD'VE taken more shots.

That's super-dumb - of COURSE players could've taken more or less shots.. If Lebron comes out taking 33 shot attempts instead of 18 in 2014 Finals, the game and series would've been played COMPLETELY differently - this is obvious.






Was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?



Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games, and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69%... We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.

That's TWO years in a row - so Kawhi didn't randomly "get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Every other team held Kawhi and Iggy down EXCEPT Lebron's teams (Heat and Cavs).





You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


That's right - league-wide pace and PPG were lower during Jordan's 2nd three-peat than today's game.

But that didn't stop Jordan from taking FAR more shots than Lebron in the playoffs and Finals, while playing great defense too - not surprisingly, his Finals went COMPLETELY different than Lebron's.





In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.


21 shots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... OMG...... 21 SHOTS!!!!......

Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387721





How would you know that Lebron's main objective was efficiency?


It was common knowledge and well-documented that efficiency was Lebron and the team's primary objective all year - they fell for the 3-pointers/layups strategy pretty hard.

But regardless of whether you agree with these facts, THAT'S HOW IT ENDED UP STATISTICALLY - Lebron only took 18 shots per game, so not surprisingly, his efficiency was the highest it's ever been... More importantly, his TEAM had better efficiency against the Spurs than any Spurs' opponent, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever..

Efficiency didn't impact winning, so the Heat and Lebron were dumb for taking this approach - otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was raw PPG:

DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..

The Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.
.

[aj1987]

Jordan's individual performance came up short for a couple games in that series.
He came up short in several other areas as well.


But I can't blame him that much - the "Jordan Rules" strategy was to double-team him on EVERY POSSESSION during various stretches, particularly in the 4th quarter.. Here's an example from Game 6 of 1989 ECF, starting with 9 minutes left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s) - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately - here's all 10 double-teams in gifs:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88
In comparison to Jordan getting doubled 10+ times in a single quarter, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire Finals:
"When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team
In short, when LeBron sucked, his entire team was worse than shit. Meh, the Bulls replaced MJ with a role-player and they still were amazing.


So for EVERY SINGLE GAME EVER, no player could've taken more or less shots.... gtfo..... Lebron's 18 shots per game was a huge mistake - his main objective was efficiency over PPG, which was really, really, really dumb:
Ok....? How would you know that? You didn't watch the series. In fact, you haven't watched basketball ever.


The Heat shot the best against the Spurs of any Spurs' opponent, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was raw PPG:
Might have something to do with Spurs shooting lights out.


DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..
Wait. So you're blaming the game plan now? Sounds like it was more of Spos' fault.


The Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.
Do you even know what you're posting right now, you ****ing retard? Go back to mastrubating to MJ highlights.

BTW, try to reply to any of these:

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.

So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?

You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.




We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.
:biggums:

You didn't watch the Finals, retard. You don't get to comment on it, going off of basketball-ref.


That's TWO years in a row, so Kawhi didn't "just get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Btw, every other team held Kawhi down in 2014 playoffs EXCEPT the Heat.
So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?


So yeah - basketball DOES work like that and you're just making pathetic excuses because your favorite player performed poorly.
Actually, Wade is my favorite player and he did play like shit in the '14 Finals.




From his teammates.
I still don't think you know how basketball works. Also, funny how you ignored the rest of the post like always, bitch.

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.





But once the Spurs see that Lebron is taking many shots and going for a big game, they will bring double-teams, which opens things up for Wade/Bosh.. But instead, Lebron only took 18 shots per game (in pursuit of high efficiency), which allowed the Spurs to stay at home on teammates and control game flow.
Again, you didn't watch the series, so you literally have no idea what ACTUALLY happened.


But you're right in one respect - Lebron takes too long to score.. If he could play off-ball like Jordan and had Jordan's superior scoring ability, he'd score much quicker, leading to more possessions and a completely different (superior) game flow.
You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:
1989 ECF, Game 5.

I guess MJ should've taken 30+ shots a game that series. The Bulls probably would've won, instead of losing in 6.


But MJ would eventually take over and lock Kawhi down, just like he did to Penny in 1996 ECF - Penny averaged 25 ppg on Pippen, but was exactly 1-5 with 3 TO vs. Jordan the entire series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtNOjco8yQ
.
That sample size. :eek: :eek:

As I said, Pippen would be the primary defender on Kawhi. Dude would take a massive steaming dump on MJ.

[3ball]

aj1987,

if you aren't going to read my new responses and you're just going to repost the shit I just responded to,

then you've melted down

I win

[aj1987]

aj1987,

if you aren't going to read my new responses and you're just going to repost the shit I just responded to,

then you've melted down

I win
No point in typing the same shit over and over, retard. I feel it's better to copy+paste when it comes to you. You literally contradicted yourself in the first ****ing point. Case in point.

The only thing you win at is being a sheltered loser, whose sole purpose of existence is to hate on LeBron and to mastrubate to MJ highlights.


That's super-dumb - of COURSE players could've taken more or less shots.. If Lebron comes out taking 33 shot attempts instead of 18 in 2014 Finals, the game and series would've been played COMPLETELY differently - this is obvious.

BUT, according to you:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384848

Make up your mind, retard.

[Da_Realist]

I'm just going to assume that you're being sarcastic

Not being sarcastic at all.





I'm blind to the facts? I actually watched the series, you dick munching retard.


You didn't watch the Finals, retard.


Also, funny how you ignored the rest of the post like always, bitch.


17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


Do you even know what you're posting right now, you ****ing retard? Go back to mastrubating to MJ highlights.


Stick to ignoring everything that burns your soul, 0ball. Better yet, go back to mastrubating to MJ's highlights.

So what can we assume about you? You have the wit of a 12 year old. How did 3ball get your panties so ruffled up when all he's doing is talking basketball?

[aj1987]

Not being sarcastic at all.

So what can we assume about you? You have the wit of a 12 year old. How did 3ball get your panties so ruffled up when all he's doing is talking basketball?
Christ, you're retarded. Dude has admitted that he hasn't watched the NBA in ages.

How come you ignored all this, BTW?

To answer OP's question, the '14 Spurs basically game planned for the Finals. They were built to beat the Heat. That coupled with Wade's retarded "maintenance program", which left him overweight and completely gassed by the Finals were the most important factors. Oh, and Miami was also the oldest team in the league at 31 years. Spurs were 29. Not much defense is going to be played when half the players are past their primes. The team also used to rely on trapping style defense and quick changes. Needs athleticism to do that. Watch the '11-'13 Heat. When they were focused, it felt like the team was an ATG level defensive team. Just beautiful.

Basketball doesn't work like that, 0ball. Kawhi scored 9 points in the first two games on 43%. Dude just got ridiculously hot in the final 3 games. You do know that TP was their leading scorer and that he shot 42% from 3, right? Manu as well. Timmy was still 15 points a game 57%. What happened there? As I said, the team was just too old and fatigued. They didn't have the luxury of taking 2 seasons off like MJ before playing in the 4th Finals.

WHERE DOES LEBRON GET THE EXTRA SHOTS FROM?

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.


Yeah, as I said, nothing but actually facts from someone who actually WATCHED the series. You can stick to riding 0ball though, retard.

[Lebron23]

3ball is a piece of $hit. And anyone who defended him is a bigger piece of $hit

[Segatti]

aj1987 roasted 3ball :applause:

[Lebron23]

aj1987 roasted 3ball :applause:

And his alternate account is defending him, and finally showed up in this thread. Gotcha!!!

[Da_Realist]

Yeah, I'm 3ball. :rolleyes: I'll take that.

Da_Realist = 3Ball. You got me.

[aj1987]

Yeah, I'm 3ball. :rolleyes: I'll take that.

Da_Realist = 3Ball. You got me.
Where the **** did I say that you're 3ball? Respond to my post, instead of backing away like a bitch.

[Da_Realist]

Where the **** did I say that you're 3ball? Respond to my post, instead of backing away like a bitch.

1. I wasn't responding to you.

2. Why waste time responding to a little kid?

You're getting destroyed so you resort to name-calling like some insecure little girl. I refuse to use this account to play with little kids.

I'll log on to my 3Ball account so we can get dirty.

[aj1987]

1. I wasn't responding to you.

2. Why waste time responding to a little kid?

You're getting destroyed so you resort to name-calling like some insecure little girl. I refuse to use this account to play with little kids.

I'll log on to my 3Ball account so we can get dirty.
So, I'm getting "destroyed" by someone who admittedly doesn't even watch basketball? Yeah, it pretty obvious that you MJ kids have never actually watched a lick of basketball.

I'll just post this here again, mental midget:

To answer OP's question, the '14 Spurs basically game planned for the Finals. They were built to beat the Heat. That coupled with Wade's retarded "maintenance program", which left him overweight and completely gassed by the Finals were the most important factors. Oh, and Miami was also the oldest team in the league at 31 years. Spurs were 29. Not much defense is going to be played when half the players are past their primes. The team also used to rely on trapping style defense and quick changes. Needs athleticism to do that. Watch the '11-'13 Heat. When they were focused, it felt like the team was an ATG level defensive team. Just beautiful.

Basketball doesn't work like that, 0ball. Kawhi scored 9 points in the first two games on 43%. Dude just got ridiculously hot in the final 3 games. You do know that TP was their leading scorer and that he shot 42% from 3, right? Manu as well. Timmy was still 15 points a game 57%. What happened there? As I said, the team was just too old and fatigued. They didn't have the luxury of taking 2 seasons off like MJ before playing in the 4th Finals.

WHERE DOES LEBRON GET THE EXTRA SHOTS FROM?

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.

[Da_Realist]

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.

I skimmed through most of your post because it's dumb. But I'll say something about this.

Lebron scored 17 points in the first quarter of Game 5. The Heat led by 16 at one point and led at the end of the quarter 29-22. San Antonio outscored Miami 25-11 in the 2nd quarter with Lebron only scoring 3 points that quarter. The Spurs led 47-40 at halftime.

Lebron only scored 11 points the whole second half. Why couldn't he shoot more since it was clear his strategy of getting everyone else involved wasn't working? Was he tired? Because the previous game was 3 days prior and he only played 37 minutes even then.

You keep saying San Antonio was built to beat Miami. True, but it was a hell of a lot easier since Miami was so resistant to changing strategies or trying something different. They quit. All of them.

Last year, Golden State was on the verge of losing to Cleveland until they tried something different (small ball). That led to them mopping the Cavs off the floor the rest of the series and getting the most regular season wins in NBA history this season.

[3ball]

Kawhi scored 9 points in the first two games on 43%.


Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games, and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed.





Kawhi just got ridiculously hot in the final 3 games.


We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.

So Kawhi didn't randomly "get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Every other team held Kawhi and Iggy down EXCEPT Lebron's teams (Heat and Cavs).





In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.


21 shots!.. OMG!!.. Stop the presses... :rolleyes:

Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387721





You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


That's right - league-wide pace and PPG were lower during Jordan's 2nd three-peat than today's game.

But that didn't stop Jordan from taking FAR more shots than Lebron in the playoffs and Finals, while playing great defense too - not surprisingly, his Finals went COMPLETELY different than Lebron's.





Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

WHERE DOES LEBRON GET THE EXTRA SHOTS FROM?


Your post is saying that once a game or series is finished, the shots are fixed - no player on either team COULD'VE taken more shots.

That's super-dumb - of COURSE players could've taken more or less shots..

If Lebron comes out taking 33 shot attempts instead of 18 in 2014 Finals, the game and series would've been played COMPLETELY differently - this is obvious.

[3ball]

I skimmed through most of your post because it's dumb. But I'll say something about this.

Lebron scored 17 points in the first quarter of Game 5. The Heat led by 16 at one point and led at the end of the quarter 29-22. San Antonio outscored Miami 25-11 in the 2nd quarter with Lebron only scoring 3 points that quarter. The Spurs led 47-40 at halftime.

Lebron only scored 11 points the whole second half. Why couldn't he shoot more since it was clear his strategy of getting everyone else involved wasn't working? Was he tired? Because the previous game was 3 days prior and he only played 37 minutes even then.

You keep saying San Antonio was built to beat Miami. True, but it was a hell of a lot easier since Miami was so resistant to changing strategies or trying something different. They quit. All of them.

Last year, Golden State was on the verge of losing to Cleveland until they tried something different (small ball). That led to them mopping the Cavs off the floor the rest of the series and getting the most regular season wins in NBA history this season.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ioxQVJrQoGg/VLM9ECQvREI/AAAAAAAADTg/fyVQx5w-bQY/s1600/200-5.gif

[aj1987]

I skimmed through most of your post because it's dumb. But I'll say something about this.

Lebron scored 17 points in the first quarter of Game 5. The Heat led by 16 at one point and led at the end of the quarter 29-22. San Antonio outscored Miami 25-11 in the 2nd quarter with Lebron only scoring 3 points that quarter. The Spurs led 47-40 at halftime.
True. LeBron missed a bunch of shots in that Q and without going to BB-Ref, AFAIK, Timmy and Manu scored the majority of the points which gave them the lead.


Lebron only scored 11 points the whole second half. Why couldn't he shoot more since it was clear his strategy of getting everyone else involved wasn't working? Was he tired? Because the previous game was 3 days prior and he only played 37 minutes even then.
Probably because he played like ~12-15 minutes in the second half? The Spurs had a near 20 point lead going into the 4th.


You keep saying San Antonio was built to beat Miami. True, but it was a hell of a lot easier since Miami was so resistant to changing strategies or trying something different. They quit. All of them.
Isn't that what I've been saying? That the team was too old and that the coach was terrible.


Last year, Golden State was on the verge of losing to Cleveland until they tried something different (small ball). That led to them mopping the Cavs off the floor the rest of the series and getting the most regular season wins in NBA history this season.
Good for them. Probably 26 being the average age of a Warrior helped as well. Not to mention the FACT that they had 2 DPOY level players, another elite defensive wing off the bench, a plethora of 3pt shooter who could defend as well, and an elite 2nd option SG.


Jordan's individual performance came up short for a couple games in that series.
He came up short in several other areas as well.


But I can't blame him that much - the "Jordan Rules" strategy was to double-team him on EVERY POSSESSION during various stretches, particularly in the 4th quarter.. Here's an example from Game 6 of 1989 ECF, starting with 9 minutes left (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s) - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately - here's all 10 double-teams in gifs:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88
In comparison to Jordan getting doubled 10+ times in a single quarter, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire Finals:
"When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team
In short, when LeBron sucked, his entire team was worse than shit. Meh, the Bulls replaced MJ with a role-player and they still were amazing.


So for EVERY SINGLE GAME EVER, no player could've taken more or less shots.... gtfo..... Lebron's 18 shots per game was a huge mistake - his main objective was efficiency over PPG, which was really, really, really dumb:
Ok....? How would you know that? You didn't watch the series. In fact, you haven't watched basketball ever.


The Heat shot the best against the Spurs of any Spurs' opponent, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was raw PPG:
Might have something to do with Spurs shooting lights out.


DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..
Wait. So you're blaming the game plan now? Sounds like it was more of Spos' fault.


The Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.
Do you even know what you're posting right now, you ****ing retard? Go back to mastrubating to MJ highlights.

BTW, try to reply to any of these:

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.

So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?

You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.




We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.
:biggums:

You didn't watch the Finals, retard. You don't get to comment on it, going off of basketball-ref.


That's TWO years in a row, so Kawhi didn't "just get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Btw, every other team held Kawhi down in 2014 playoffs EXCEPT the Heat.
So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?


So yeah - basketball DOES work like that and you're just making pathetic excuses because your favorite player performed poorly.
Actually, Wade is my favorite player and he did play like shit in the '14 Finals.




From his teammates.
I still don't think you know how basketball works. Also, funny how you ignored the rest of the post like always, bitch.

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.





But once the Spurs see that Lebron is taking many shots and going for a big game, they will bring double-teams, which opens things up for Wade/Bosh.. But instead, Lebron only took 18 shots per game (in pursuit of high efficiency), which allowed the Spurs to stay at home on teammates and control game flow.
Again, you didn't watch the series, so you literally have no idea what ACTUALLY happened.


But you're right in one respect - Lebron takes too long to score.. If he could play off-ball like Jordan and had Jordan's superior scoring ability, he'd score much quicker, leading to more possessions and a completely different (superior) game flow.
You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:
1989 ECF, Game 5.

I guess MJ should've taken 30+ shots a game that series. The Bulls probably would've won, instead of losing in 6.


But MJ would eventually take over and lock Kawhi down, just like he did to Penny in 1996 ECF - Penny averaged 25 ppg on Pippen, but was exactly 1-5 with 3 TO vs. Jordan the entire series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtNOjco8yQ
.
That sample size. :eek: :eek:

As I said, Pippen would be the primary defender on Kawhi. Dude would take a massive steaming dump on MJ.

[3ball]

Kawhi scored 9 points in the first two games on 43%.


Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games, and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed.





Kawhi just got ridiculously hot in the final 3 games.


We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.

So Kawhi didn't randomly "get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Every other team held Kawhi and Iggy down EXCEPT Lebron's teams (Heat and Cavs).





Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


That's right - league-wide pace and PPG were lower during Jordan's 2nd three-peat than today's game.

But that didn't stop Jordan from taking FAR more shots than Lebron in the playoffs and Finals, while playing great defense too - not surprisingly, his Finals went COMPLETELY different than Lebron's.





In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.


21 shots!.. OMG!!.. Stop the presses... :rolleyes:

Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387721





Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

WHERE DOES LEBRON GET THE EXTRA SHOTS FROM?


Your post is saying that once a game or series is finished, the shots are fixed - no player on either team COULD'VE taken more shots.

That's super-dumb - of COURSE players could've taken more or less shots..

If Lebron comes out taking 33 shot attempts instead of 18 in 2014 Finals, the game and series would've been played COMPLETELY differently - this is obvious.

[rmt]

I skimmed through most of your post because it's dumb. But I'll say something about this.

Lebron scored 17 points in the first quarter of Game 5. The Heat led by 16 at one point and led at the end of the quarter 29-22. San Antonio outscored Miami 25-11 in the 2nd quarter with Lebron only scoring 3 points that quarter. The Spurs led 47-40 at halftime.

Lebron only scored 11 points the whole second half. Why couldn't he shoot more since it was clear his strategy of getting everyone else involved wasn't working? Was he tired? Because the previous game was 3 days prior and he only played 37 minutes even then.

You keep saying San Antonio was built to beat Miami. True, but it was a hell of a lot easier since Miami was so resistant to changing strategies or trying something different. They quit. All of them.

Last year, Golden State was on the verge of losing to Cleveland until they tried something different (small ball). That led to them mopping the Cavs off the floor the rest of the series and getting the most regular season wins in NBA history this season.

Kinda hard to change their swarming defense when that's the way they've defended for 3 years - it's ingrained at that point.

[aj1987]

Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games, and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed.



We know that Lebron's poor defense was not random or a fluke, because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player be > Curry.

So Kawhi didn't randomly "get hot" like you said - it was Lebron's bad defense that allowed it, just like in 2015 Finals vs. Iggy... Every other team held Kawhi and Iggy down EXCEPT Lebron's teams (Heat and Cavs).



That's right - league-wide pace and PPG were lower during Jordan's 2nd three-peat than today's game.

But that didn't stop Jordan from taking FAR more shots than Lebron in the playoffs and Finals, while playing great defense too - not surprisingly, his Finals went COMPLETELY different than Lebron's.



21 shots!.. OMG!!.. Stop the presses... :rolleyes:

Lebron should've gone down swinging MJ like did in Game 3 of 1993 Finals, when he took 43 shots, but still lost in OT... Overall, Jordan attempted 33 FGA for that series, at 51%... This volume was needed for the Bulls to KEEP UP with the Suns' juggernaut, #1 offense.

Jordan averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff CAREER, at better efficiency than Lebron's 19 shots per game.. Here's a great thread about players who were capable of shooting well at high volume:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387721



Your post is saying that once a game or series is finished, the shots are fixed - no player on either team COULD'VE taken more shots.

That's super-dumb - of COURSE players could've taken more or less shots..

If Lebron comes out taking 33 shot attempts instead of 18 in 2014 Finals, the game and series would've been played COMPLETELY differently - this is obvious.

Lebron scored 17 points in the first quarter of Game 5. The Heat led by 16 at one point and led at the end of the quarter 29-22. San Antonio outscored Miami 25-11 in the 2nd quarter with Lebron only scoring 3 points that quarter. The Spurs led 47-40 at halftime.[/quote]
True. LeBron missed a bunch of shots in that Q and without going to BB-Ref, AFAIK, Timmy and Manu scored the majority of the points which gave them the lead.

Probably because he played like ~12-15 minutes in the second half? The Spurs had a near 20 point lead going into the 4th.

Isn't that what I've been saying? That the team was too old and that the coach was terrible.

Good for them. Probably 26 being the average age of a Warrior helped as well. Not to mention the FACT that they had 2 DPOY level players, another elite defensive wing off the bench, a plethora of 3pt shooter who could defend as well, and an elite 2nd option SG.

He came up short in several other areas as well.

In short, when LeBron sucked, his entire team was worse than shit. Meh, the Bulls replaced MJ with a role-player and they still were amazing.

Ok....? How would you know that? You didn't watch the series. In fact, you haven't watched basketball ever.

Might have something to do with Spurs shooting lights out.

Wait. So you're blaming the game plan now? Sounds like it was more of Spos' fault.

Do you even know what you're posting right now, you ****ing retard? Go back to mastrubating to MJ highlights.

BTW, try to reply to any of these:

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.

So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?

You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.


:biggums:

You didn't watch the Finals, retard. You don't get to comment on it, going off of basketball-ref.

So, was LeBron's defense on another level, when he held Kawhi to 9 PPG on 43% in the first two games?

Actually, Wade is my favorite player and he did play like shit in the '14 Finals.

I still don't think you know how basketball works. Also, funny how you ignored the rest of the post like always, bitch.

Wade in the RS - 14.1
Wade in the first 3 rounds - 14.3
Wade in the Finals - 12.8

Bosh in the RS - 12.1
Bosh in the first 3 rounds - 11.7
Bosh in the Finals - 10.2

LeBron in the RS - 17.6
LeBron in the first 3 rounds - 16.6
LeBron in the Finals - 18.2

LeBron's shot attempts actually went up and Wade's and Bosh's decreased. They are not going to magically get more possessions.

In G5, LeBron took 21 shots and scored 31/10/5/2 on 62% TS and Miami lost by 17.

Again, you didn't watch the series, so you literally have no idea what ACTUALLY happened.

You do know that Wade, LeBron, AND MJ always play/played on slow paced teams, right? The '96 Bulls were 19th in the league in pace. 17th in '97 and 22nd in '98. 19th, 22nd, and 27th during the first 3peat, retard.

1989 ECF, Game 5.

I guess MJ should've taken 30+ shots a game that series. The Bulls probably would've won, instead of losing in 6.

That sample size. :eek: :eek:

As I said, Pippen would be the primary defender on Kawhi. Dude would take a massive steaming dump on MJ.

[HoopologyPhD]

I believe that David Stern was still the commish in 2013...