Most of today's 3-point attempts are OPEN or WIDE OPEN

[3ball]

.
.....NBA.com describes 4-6 feet distance as "open" and 6+ feet as "wide open"



........................................0-2 ft (very tight).... 2-4 ft (tight)..... 4-6 ft (open).... 6+ ft (very open)

LEAGUE-AVERAGE
3-PT ATTEMPTS PER GAME ............0.4 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=0-2%20Feet%20-%20Very%20Tight).................... 4.1 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight)..................9.9 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open)..................9.4 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open) <-- nba.com

PERCENTAGE OF
TOTAL 3-PT ATTEMPTS ................1.7% (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=0-2%20Feet%20-%20Very%20Tight)................ 17.2% (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight).............41.6% (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open).............39.5% (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open)



Over 80% of today's 3-point looks are "open" or "wide open"..

Today's open 3-point looks shouldn't be a surprise because with MULTIPLE players standing behind the line on every play, the defense is stretched out and can't make timely rotations most of the time.

In previous eras, only 1 player would be standing behind the line, so defenses didn't need complicated rotations and a defender could hug his man at the 3-point line easier without needing to come off him.

[DonDraper]

Why didn't previous eras shoot 3's as often as today?


If it's such a high efficiency and easy shot, shouldn't they have attempted more?

[Smoke117]

Curry >>> Jordan

[Sarcastic]

Curry >>> Jordan

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

[sdot_thadon]

In previous eras, only 1 player would be standing behind the line, so defenses didn't need complicated rotations and a defender could hug his man at the 3-point line easier without needing to come off him.
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/4183099/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_1.44.10_PM.png
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/4183253/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_8.36.39_PM.png
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/assets/4183261/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_8.37.41_PM.png
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/4183421/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_9.38.27_PM.png


I think we're done here.

[3ball]

I think we're done here.


I can post one-off examples of teams posting up centers in today's game.

But obviously, teams rarely post-up compared to previous eras, just like previous eras rarely shot 3-pointers/spaced the floor compared today's era.

Posting one-off exceptions to obvious, well-known norms only make you look ignorant, like you have no clue of what's happened historically.
.
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[sdot_thadon]

I can post one-off examples of teams posting up centers in today's game.

But obviously, teams rarely post-up compared to previous eras, just like previous eras rarely shot 3-pointers/spaced the floor compared today's era.

Posting one-off exceptions to obvious, well-known norms only make you look ignorant, like you have no clue of what's happened historically.
.
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Just a reminder of your futility, see ya next thread.:applause:

[3ball]

Why didn't previous eras shoot 3's as often as today?


Since very few players were good at 3-pointers in previous eras, no one envisioned a scenario where shooting a bunch of 3-pointers would be advantageous to the offense.

Accordingly, the 3-point shot was considered a novelty and good 3-point shooters were considered rare anomalies.




shouldn't they have attempted more?


It was considered a novelty, not a highly efficiency shot.. Players didn't start heavily practicing the 3-point shot until the 2000's.

And in previous eras, since the defender's man was rarely a good shooter, defenders HEAVILY sagged off the 3-point line and packed the paint instead.. However, the few good 3-point shooters that existed were guarded tightly - ALL eras guard good shooters tightly.

Today's era probably guards 3-pointers the LEAST tightly, since the OP data shows that over 80% of 3-pointers are "open" or "wide open".. With MULTIPLE players standing behind the line on every play, the defense is stretched out and can't make timely rotations most of the time.

But in previous eras, only 1 player would be standing behind the line, so defenses didn't need complicated rotations and a defender could hug his man at the 3-point line easier without needing to come off him.

Additionally, hand-checking was legal back then, whereas it's illegal today - the NBA's current hands-off rule requires space between defender and ballhandler, allowing for easier driving and shooting than previous eras.
.

[sdot_thadon]

I can post one-off examples of teams posting up centers in today's game.

But obviously, teams rarely post-up compared to previous eras, just like previous eras rarely shot 3-pointers/spaced the floor compared today's era.

Posting one-off exceptions to obvious, well-known norms only make you look ignorant, like you have no clue of what's happened historically.
.
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Also, isn't this concept basically the entire foundation your 20,000 plus posts are built upon?
:biggums:

[3ball]

isn't this concept basically the entire foundation your 20,000 plus posts are built upon?


No - my threads use stats that have massive sample sizes - look at the OP - most of today's 3-pointers are "open" or "wide open"... The sample size is all of the 3-pointers taken this season.

My other thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) used stats from Lebron's entire career to show that he lowers the APG of teammates (playmaking), while increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing) - this proves he turns teammates from playmakers to play-finishers - again, the sample size was Lebron's entire career.

Virtually ALL of my threads use stats with massive sample sizes in this manner - I've virtually NEVER used a one-off example to make a generalization on this site - EVER... Only dumb people do that
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[Im Still Ballin]

You can't really make this statement

Most 90's squads only used one side of the court on offense...

Because they could. Floor spacing was RULE ENFORCED thanks to the illegal defense guidelines

I've made many threads on this as everyone knows. This RULE ENFORCED SPACING allowed teams to get away with playing less shooters and more rebounders. It was very common to see Rodman camped out at the three point line, and the defender had to guard him because the rules said so.

[3ball]

It was very common to see Rodman camped out at the three point line


Rodman was almost never camped out behind the 3-point line - you sound stupid trying to push such an obvious lie.





defenders had to guard Rodman tightly at the 3-point line because the rules said so.


Again, you sound stupid trying to push such an obvious lie - a 30 second glance at footage shows that defenders in previous eras were allowed to sag off shooters just as much as today's defender.

Infact, today's defender can only sag off 3-point shooters until they meet the paint (where defensive 3 seconds kicks in), whereas defenders in previous eras could sag off shooters further - weakside defenders could sag off shooters and paint-camp indefinitely in the "outside lane" (the outer partition that runs up each side of the paint).





Most 90's squads only used one side of the court on offense...


This is very true - in previous eras, ballhandlers faced strongsides that contained all 5 defenders because teams didn't space the weakside - they didn't have have 3-point shooters on the weakside to space defenders over the ENTIRE court like today's game.

Otoh, today's game shoots a ton of 3-pointers and spaces the weakside on every play, which allows ballhandlers and post players face less strongside defenders.

It's cool that you pointed this out and everything, but I already illustrated today's lower number of strongside defenders here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11711763&postcount=31
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[Im Still Ballin]

He wouldn't do it often

The best position for an elite rebounder like Rodman is baseline edge of the key

He would however, every now and then, pull a trap on his direct man defender by running to the 3pt line and getting the ref to call an illegal defense violation

[Im Still Ballin]

Common set up for a Jordan post up/iso on the wing/clear out was like this

Jordan on the wing either sizing up his opponent with a dribble or posting up

2 players at the top of the baseline/3pt line

Rodman/big man rebounder at the baseline edge of the key on the opposite side to Jordan

And a man on the opposite wing, usually in the corner

[stalkerforlife]

Except Curry's...dudes are all over him.

[3ball]

He would however, every now and then, pull a trap on his direct man defender by running to the 3pt line and getting the ref to call an illegal defense violation


He virtually never did this, for 2 reasons:

1) Rodman was almost never camped behind the 3-point line

2) Even if he was, the defender could sag off him just like today's defender - it wouldn't be an illegal defense violation

[Im Still Ballin]

He virtually never did this, for 2 reasons:

1) Rodman was almost never camped behind the 3-point line

2) Even if he was, the defender could sag off him just like today's defender - it wouldn't be an illegal defense violation
Yeah, it'd be a no call. I'm definitely not denying that. Guys got away with illegal defense all the time. Especially towards the tail end of the 90's. Many articles about it. DonDadda has the collection. George Karl was notorious for pushing the boundaries of Illegal defense.

[Labissiere]

All I know is that Curry's 3s are guarded tighter than MJ's were.

[Im Still Ballin]

https://media.giphy.com/media/jdXj9X1h4jJNC/giphy.gif

[3ball]

Yeah, it'd be a no call. I'm definitely not denying that. Guys got away with illegal defense all the time.


You don't get it - it WASN'T ILLEGAL for defenders to sag off 3-point shooters.

You don't know how stupid you sound saying it was.

It's like me saying today's rules force defenders to hug shooters at the 3-point line - this is obviously not true and dumb, but that's what you're saying about previous eras - it's ridiculous

[Im Still Ballin]

You don't get it - it WASN'T ILLEGAL for defenders to sag off 3-point shooters.

You don't know how stupid you sound saying it was.

It's like me saying today's rules force defenders to hug shooters at the 3-point line - this is obviously not true and dumb, but that's what you're saying about previous eras - it's ridiculous
It was illegal. It's in the rulebook.

[ShawkFactory]

Don't you not watch basketball? How the fvck would you know "most" of anything that happens?

You really don't see the flaw here? :lol

[3ball]

It's in the rulebook


Where... Here's the illegal defense rules - show me where defenders had to follow their man to the 3-point line:

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html


Btw, they barely shot 3-pointers AT ALL before 1994, so players were rarely behind the line to begin with.

And here's the reality - defenders in previous eras could sag off shooters MORE than today's game.. In today's game, the defender can sag off until they meet the edge of the paint, where defensive 3 seconds kicks in..

But in previous eras, Rule 2a says that weakside defenders could paint-camp indefinitely in the "outside lane" (the outer partition running up both sides of the paint) - this is what Stockton is doing in the far corner of the gif shown above.
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[3ball]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Bheqr6H8ZiQOk/giphy.gif


It was illegal.



Look at the baseline in the famous clip above - you think it was illegal for Hornacek and Stockton to sag off Kerr/Kukoc like that?

You think they were "getting away" with something?... How dumb are you?.. That was STANDARD back then, and that's the same way defenders sag off today.

Again, you don't realize how dumb you sound - you're a lone crazy wolf on this one - everyone knows that it was legal for defenders to sag off shooters in previous eras.

[3ball]

Except Curry's...dudes are all over him.



Over 70% of Curry's 3-point attempts are either "open" (4-6 ft) or "wide open" (6+ ft).. However, the league average is 80%.



........................................0-2 ft (very tight).... 2-4 ft (tight)..... 4-6 ft (open).... 6+ ft (very open)

STEPH CURRY'S.
3-PT ATTEMPTS PER GAME ............0.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/).................... 2.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/)..................5.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/)..................2.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/) <-- nba.com

PERCENTAGE OF
TOTAL 3-PT ATTEMPTS ................0.4% (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/)................ 26.1% (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/).............45.9% (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/).............24.3% (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/tracking/shots/)



Keep in mind that today's teams take 24 threes per game, and the primary method used to generate these looks is screen-roll/drive-and-kick.

However, today's drive-and-kick format requires multiple shooters behind the 3-point line on every possession to kick the ball out to.. This format didn't exist in previous eras because teams didn't have enough 3-point-shooting personnel to position multiple shooters behind the line.

Driving and kicking for 3-pointers wasn't common or the staple of ANY team's offense until about 10 years ago.. Consequently, good 3-point shooters in the 80's and 90's didn't benefit from offenses that were based on their strength like today's 3-point shooters do.

So don't be surprised that Curry's 3-pointers are mostly wide open.. Today's offenses are designed to maximize 3-point shooting and generate kickouts for easy looks.. But in previous eras, guys like Reggie and Bird had to run off screens to get 3-point looks - they didn't have 3-point shooting teammates to enable drive-and-kick so they could stand and wait for an easy kickout like today's 3-point shooter enjoys..

[CuterThanRubio]

I'm in 3ball's head so deep, he truly believed that this thread would be a good idea after I exposed the real truth about 80s and 90s basketball.

How about you post some pictures or gifs instead of stats, I'd like to see some hard evidence.

And stop spamming the same post over and over, I thought KBlaze already warned you about that.


I'm Still Ballin is wrecking shop in here, I love it.

I'm working on a new thread to post once my other one dies out, I'm having trouble finding the information I need so it might take a while, but I think you guys will enjoy!

[3ball]

I'd like to see some hard evidence.


I posted the NBA's own stats showing the entire league is either "open" (4-6 ft of room) or "wide open" (6+ ft) for 80% of their 3-pointers (70% for Curry).

That's the HARDEST evidence - it proves you wrong.. Now get back in your hole - you're an embarrassment.

[jstern]

3ball is winning this. It's just that he's so aggressive about it.

[Euroleague]

.
.....NBA.com describes 4-6 feet distance as "open" and 6+ feet as "wide open"



........................................0-2 ft (very tight).... 2-4 ft (tight)..... 4-6 ft (open).... 6+ ft (very open)

LEAGUE-AVERAGE
3-PT ATTEMPTS PER GAME ............0.4 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=0-2%20Feet%20-%20Very%20Tight).................... 4.1 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight)..................9.9 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open)..................9.4 (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open) <-- nba.com

PERCENTAGE OF
TOTAL 3-PT ATTEMPTS ................1.7% (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=0-2%20Feet%20-%20Very%20Tight)................ 17.2% (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=2-4%20Feet%20-%20Tight).............41.6% (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=4-6%20Feet%20-%20Open).............39.5% (http://stats.nba.com/league/team/shots/#!/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&ShotDistRange=&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open)



Over 80% of today's 3-point looks are "open" or "wide open"..

Today's open 3-point looks shouldn't be a surprise because with MULTIPLE players standing behind the line on every play, the defense is stretched out and can't make timely rotations most of the time.

In previous eras, only 1 player would be standing behind the line, so defenses didn't need complicated rotations and a defender could hug his man at the 3-point line easier without needing to come off him.


And yet, whenever it is pointed out to you, that rarely do guys get open 3 point shots in Euroleague - you still claim ridiculous things like the defense is much better in the NBA, and that it's much easier to shoot 3s in Euroleague....