Why are other Muslims killing Sufis and Ahmadi?

[Nick Young]

From the outside looking in, the Sufis and Ahmadi's seem like nice sects of Islam. They preach peace and tolerance of their fellow humans and practitioners of other religions.


Yet both of these sects have a long history of persecution, particularly by other sects of Islam.

What is it about Sufism and Ahmadiyya that inspires other Muslims to murder and persecute them? Are they doing anything that violates the rules of the Koran?


Where is the hatred towards Sufis and Ahmadis coming from?

[Patrick Chewing]

Let them kill each other off. Animals. Savages.


One day, when the Messiah returns, he will bring with him the wrath of God.


If I were a Muslim in the Holy Land, I'd want to be dead instead.



Nick, all you have to worry about is where will you be when the time comes? Will you fight for your Lord and Savior? Will you be a soldier of God? Or will you burn with the rest of them?


https://media.giphy.com/media/mcwdFsdK4hjDa/giphy.gif

[Kvnzhangyay]

Because in actuality, they aren't doing it in the name of religion

They just say they are

[Nick Young]

Because in actuality, they aren't doing it in the name of religion

They just say they are
In their minds though, what is the point of view they have that leads them to murdering and persecuting their fellow Muslim brothers who do nothing but promote peace and tolerance?

[Kvnzhangyay]

In their minds though, what is the point of view they have that leads them to murdering and persecuting their fellow Muslim brothers who do nothing but promote peace and tolerance?

Not sure, but I've started to learn in my life that some people are just pure evil

In addition, you can never underestimate the power of a cult. (See: Scientology)

Combine those two together and you get the hell-bound shithole that is isis

[This is just my opinion]

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

On the spiritual-self scale,
Mid-20s males like yourself and I undergo an "inner jihad" in which after physical maturity and tasting the pleasures of the world; there's sin to be expunged and virtue to be attained. There's an inner light within each human that is oppressed by the ego before the light illuminates and conquers the shackles of the evil mind. However, this light must be.. cultivated.. built.. be the leader.. etc; done through prayer and charity and exemplified by Moses giving up his comfy Egyptian home and proceeding to learn shepherding in the simple, harsh desert. Cleanliness, repentance and resolve to stay rigidly on the straight path and be unaffected by Satanic impulses, or the lower self, or the AntiChrist or the distractions-diversions as spoken by Alduous Huxley take us away from coming nearer to God.


On the historical-social scale,
The most beautiful story illustrating this is Moses and Pharoah.
Pharoah, like the ego knew he would be slaughtered by a Child of Israel, and being arrogant, seeking immortal life, power, paranoid; sought to separate and destroy every single baby boy of Israel. Child of Israel struggles with God; who is the Source of all things beneficient; including but not limited to truth, light, justice, equality etc; aspects the Ahmadi and Sufi movements embody moreso than perhaps the current Mainstream Muslim community (in urban areas at least) where there's a lot of tumultuous rumbling. The Qu'ran makes note that "most people do not believe" i.e. a minority of Muslims are on the straight path. May God make this message quick so you and I, brother, can make up for the time wasted in doing good. And may we always be on the Straight Path, as tis is true human beings (who still possess egos and are deficient in their service to mankind) in their limited intellect without full Scripture comprehension and extensive years of meditation, fasting, charity under their belt do not actually know.


Another lovely illustration of the Straight Path is the Saiyan Saga or Star Wars

Goku first has to face his own kind (i.e. Raditz and Vegeta) and trains diligently trying to master himself through a series of physical exercises. Symbolically, he destroys racism and comes to terms with his past sins.

Later, he is taken under mentorship by walking on a slithery snake which can be seen as Kundalini Energy that goes up the spine (when Muslims prostrate, energy from the lowest chakra goes up into the head chakra while they recite "Subhana Rabil Adheem").

He has to cut off his tail, i.e. cut off his animal appetites, catch a fly (i.e. develop precise focus), and train under resistance (i.e. undergo trials and tribulations God creates in the humans life) before embarking on the next mission.

Goku then has to face Frieza = who is a mix of Satan and Pharoah = Egotistical Tyrant on Namek (i.e. Earth i.e. YOUR BODY) that destroy everything due to a sense of superiority. Goku is incredibly humble and only serves the forces of light, why he can enact the spirit bomb aka the force aka Dua calling on God for invocation as the Divine Will naturally favors the virtuous and conquers the wicked...so man can come to know Him. The Nimbus also represents the Holy Spirit, as it saved Gohan at the nick of time; and note that Goku moves faster when he just stands still and lets the wind carry him.

Overall, it's the main way things work in life. A Messenger comes, they are mocked. The truth comes forth and the truth hurts (only the ego) and it requires change but the truth sets one free.

This is of course the very flawed angle of what a barely literate 3rd world country immigrant who doesn't even understand the Qur'an states.

So consult the Scriptures for better insight.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Let them kill each other off. Animals. Savages.


One day, when the Messiah returns, he will bring with him the wrath of God.


If I were a Muslim in the Holy Land, I'd want to be dead instead.



Nick, all you have to worry about is where will you be when the time comes? Will you fight for your Lord and Savior? Will you be a soldier of God? Or will you burn with the rest of them?


https://media.giphy.com/media/mcwdFsdK4hjDa/giphy.gif

God has rendered that hearts be joined together and the Bible has CLEARLY made mention of a Messenger "Who will only say that which God commands him to say to come from Ishmael's lineage." It was prophesized at the end times.

Every single Catholic and Orthodox Jew I have come across HAS IMMEDIATELY been friendly to me, as it was stated... "believers are reflections of each other."

Stop dividing and forwarding nasty negative energy. Stop eating pork, stop drinking like a fish, stop deliberately putting aside the Good Book, keep yourself clean, take preventive measures against Satan, stop having hang-ups about your divorce, really really think and ponder about the creations, stop thinking Muslims are the problems. It's unbecoming and putting you at a lower and lower status. You've made tremendous spiritual progress in terms of becoming compassionate towards people with black skin. We both need to further clean our hearts.

[Nick Young]

On the spiritual-self scale,
Mid-20s males like yourself and I undergo an "inner jihad" in which after physical maturity and tasting the pleasures of the world; there's sin to be expunged and virtue to be attained. There's an inner light within each human that is oppressed by the ego before the light illuminates and conquers the shackles of the evil mind. However, this light must be.. cultivated.. built.. be the leader.. etc; done through prayer and charity and exemplified by Moses giving up his comfy Egyptian home and proceeding to learn shepherding in the simple, harsh desert. Cleanliness, repentance and resolve to stay rigidly on the straight path and be unaffected by Satanic impulses, or the lower self, or the AntiChrist or the distractions-diversions as spoken by Alduous Huxley take us away from coming nearer to God.


On the historical-social scale,
The most beautiful story illustrating this is Moses and Pharoah.
Pharoah, like the ego knew he would be slaughtered by a Child of Israel, and being arrogant, seeking immortal life, power, paranoid; sought to separate and destroy every single baby boy of Israel. Child of Israel struggles with God; who is the Source of all things beneficient; including but not limited to truth, light, justice, equality etc; aspects the Ahmadi and Sufi movements embody moreso than perhaps the current Mainstream Muslim community (in urban areas at least) where there's a lot of tumultuous rumbling. The Qu'ran makes note that "most people do not believe" i.e. a minority of Muslims are on the straight path. May God make this message quick so you and I, brother, can make up for the time wasted in doing good. And may we always be on the Straight Path, as tis is true human beings (who still possess egos and are deficient in their service to mankind) in their limited intellect without full Scripture comprehension and extensive years of meditation, fasting, charity under their belt do not actually know.


Another lovely illustration of the Straight Path is the Saiyan Saga or Star Wars

Goku first has to face his own kind (i.e. Raditz and Vegeta) and trains diligently trying to master himself through a series of physical exercises. Symbolically, he destroys racism and comes to terms with his past sins.

Later, he is taken under mentorship by walking on a slithery snake which can be seen as Kundalini Energy that goes up the spine (when Muslims prostrate, energy from the lowest chakra goes up into the head chakra while they recite "Subhana Rabil Adheem").

He has to cut off his tail, i.e. cut off his animal appetites, catch a fly (i.e. develop precise focus), and train under resistance (i.e. undergo trials and tribulations God creates in the humans life) before embarking on the next mission.

Goku then has to face Frieza = who is a mix of Satan and Pharoah = Egotistical Tyrant on Namek (i.e. Earth i.e. YOUR BODY) that destroy everything due to a sense of superiority. Goku is incredibly humble and only serves the forces of light, why he can enact the spirit bomb aka the force aka Dua calling on God for invocation as the Divine Will naturally favors the virtuous and conquers the wicked...so man can come to know Him. The Nimbus also represents the Holy Spirit, as it saved Gohan at the nick of time; and note that Goku moves faster when he just stands still and lets the wind carry him.

Overall, it's the main way things work in life. A Messenger comes, they are mocked. The truth comes forth and the truth hurts (only the ego) and it requires change but the truth sets one free.

This is of course the very flawed angle of what a barely literate 3rd world country immigrant who doesn't even understand the Qur'an states.

So consult the Scriptures for better insight.
Thanks for putting this in to a DBZ analogy so I'll be able to understand it, but why are other Muslim sects persecuting Sufis and Ahmadis? What do they do against Islam that is so bad it warrants murder?

[Patrick Chewing]

God has rendered that hearts be joined together and the Bible has CLEARLY made mention of a Messenger "Who will only say that which God commands him to say to come from Ishmael's lineage." It was prophesized at the end times.

Every single Catholic and Orthodox Jew I have come across HAS IMMEDIATELY been friendly to me, as it was stated... "believers are reflections of each other."

Stop dividing and forwarding nasty negative energy. Stop eating pork, stop drinking like a fish, stop deliberately putting aside the Good Book, keep yourself clean, take preventive measures against Satan, stop having hang-ups about your divorce, really really think and ponder about the creations, stop thinking Muslims are the problems. It's unbecoming and putting you at a lower and lower status. You've made tremendous spiritual progress in terms of becoming compassionate towards people with black skin. We both need to further clean our hearts.


I will NEVER give up BBQ Baby Back Ribs! NEVER!

You get from round here with that foolishness!

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Truthfully, Nick, I do not know why someone would take the life of an Ahmadi or Sufi Muslim. But it can not be of good intention. However, understand that death is not the end, that God is most Just, All-Seeing, All-Hearing, the Reckoner and many more. Your ancestors who have endured the trials of the Holocaust are very likely happily living in Paradise. Putting labels on the world without having the clear eyes of Faith makes everything seem dark and morbid, when in reality those undergoing the hardest trials are Beloved in God's Eyes. Like an elite Professor giving his best student an extra hard Architecture test to really push and challenge the spirit of the student. What greater gift is there than becoming so deeply in love with the Creator that death no longer phases you? Verily, Jesus conquered death.


Perhaps the fact that this story has reached our eyes is a warning to stay away from the electromagnetic fields of a laptop taking away from naturally meditating in darkness and simply live and let be. Perhaps, it's a warning for you and I to both ask forgiveness for harboring malice towards other beings, or a victim mentality. Perhaps I need to stop being biased as a Muslim and you need to stop being biased as a Jew, as these are derivatives of the ego ; and obey Jesus command to Love One Another as Thy Self. And there's most definitely additional layers of meaning as we tread through the journey.

Our duty to God is to do the right thing always. But we must protect ourselves from our true enemies. Satan, Dajjal, the weakness of our souls, and our egos.

.
Remember any innocent life martyred actually enjoys a much, much better position in the Hereafter and any oppressive tyrant burns.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

I will NEVER give up BBQ Baby Back Ribs! NEVER!

You get from round here with that foolishness!

Dude, it's a filthy filthy animal. If you don't believe what you eat has a tremendous impact on your mood and thus your thoughts (let alone spirituality), just try abstaining from a week.

Nick can't touch oysters or catfish or carrion or non-kosher for a reason.

Try this diet, tell me how you like it.
Breakfast:
Dates/Figs and Almonds.

Lunch:
Salmon in a Salad with Cucumbers with Olive Oil Vinaigreete

Dinner:
Bread, hummus, small portion of lamb.

Snack:
Milk

That's something similar to what Jesus would have eaten. Love your body, don't pollute it.

[Akrazotile]

It's a good question, and deserves some strong rumination.

[nightprowler10]

Two very different topics. I can shed some light on Ahmadis. Their persecution is most significant in Pakistan, so I'll try to cover that.

Ahmadis have a difference in a core belief from just about every other Muslim sect. They don't believe Muhammad was the last prophet of God, and my understanding is that they consider every one of their leaders a Prophet. This, in the eyes of most people that give a shit, makes them non-Muslims. I guess technically they are correct, as this is something I think is well addressed in the Quran.

Let's go back to the beginning of the current conflict. In the early 1900s before there was a Pakistan, all of pre-partition India was under British control. The only Muslim who was a strong enough leader to stand up to the British Imperialism was Muhammad Ali Jinnah. He knew the British Law well and knew how they think. Except he had gotten tired of the BS and moved to England. The leader of Ahmadis at the time supposedly convinced Jinnah to go back to India and fight for the Muslims.

Around 1940, he and his party Indian Muslim League saw the writing on the wall and decided that the Muslims of India should have their own state, and 7 years later Pakistan was born. The reason I'm mentioning this is that during those 7 years the Islamist factions like Jamat-e-Islami and others actually opposed the creation of Pakistan while the Ahmadis supported it. Part of the reason was that Jinnah was not seen as a "good" Muslim, nor did he hold fundamentalist views. In fact, he was about as secular as they come. JI did eventually cave in and start supporting the creation of a new country because they saw that as an opportunity to have an Islamic missionary state.

Then the most tragic thing that could happen to Pakistan happened. Jinnah died a year after independence. This was huge turning point in Pakistan's history because he most likely would have wiped the country clean of any Islamist movements and put in place a secular leaning constitution. His vision was of a secular country for any stateless Muslims, not what it's turned into today.

During the 50s, JI did what extremist movements do. They started rioting to demand that the Ahmadis be banned from calling themselves Muslims. Over 200 people were killed in Lahore until the army stepped in quashed the riots.

Then in 1973, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto officially ****ed the Ahmadis over for the first time. That's right, the guy hailed in the West as a champion of democracy put into the Pakistani constitution that Ahmadis are Kafirs. This was a Frank Underwood type ploy to get the JI followers in his pocket. This was followed up by another amendment in 1984 by another asshole General Zia-ul-Haq (military dictator) who made it illegal for Ahmadis to call themselves Muslims. Yup you guessed it, an Ahmadi could be put into jail for it.

The purpose of my long ass post is to show just how tragic this whole thing has been. The ****wads that didn't even want the country ended up dictating terms to **** over a minority group that was responsible for getting Jinnah's ass in tow and work towards creation of Pakistan.

Wanna see more tragedy? Abdus Salam was an Ahmadi physicist (did a lot of work on the theory of neutrinos) and Nobel prize winner who considered himself a Pakistani above all. Read his story here (at least the religion and death sections).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#Religion

[Nick Young]

Dude, it's a filthy filthy animal. If you don't believe what you eat has a tremendous impact on your mood and thus your thoughts (let alone spirituality), just try abstaining from a week.

Nick can't touch oysters or catfish or carrion or non-kosher for a reason.

Try this diet, tell me how you like it.
Breakfast:
Dates/Figs and Almonds.

Lunch:
Salmon in a Salad with Cucumbers with Olive Oil Vinaigreete

Dinner:
Bread, hummus, small portion of lamb.

Snack:
Milk

That's something similar to what Jesus would have eaten. Love your body, don't pollute it.
How could Jesus afford to eat lamb every day?

Does Jesus support the smoking of God's green herb, the cancer curing miracle drug marijuana?

[Nick Young]

Two very different topics. I can shed some light on Ahmadis. Their persecution is most significant in Pakistan, so I'll try to cover that.

Ahmadis have a difference in a core belief from just about every other Muslim sect. They don't believe Muhammad was the last prophet of God, and my understanding is that they consider every one of their leaders a Prophet. This, in the eyes of most people that give a shit, makes them non-Muslims. I guess technically they are correct, as this is something I think is well addressed in the Quran.

Let's go back to the beginning of the current conflict. In the early 1900s before there was a Pakistan, all of pre-partition India was under British control. The only Muslim who was a strong enough leader to stand up to the British Imperialism was Muhammad Ali Jinnah. He knew the British Law well and knew how they think. Except he had gotten tired of the BS and moved to England. The leader of Ahmadis at the time supposedly convinced Jinnah to go back to India and fight for the Muslims.

Around 1940, he and his party Indian Muslim League saw the writing on the wall and decided that the Muslims of India should have their own state, and 7 years later Pakistan was born. The reason I'm mentioning this is that during those 7 years the Islamist factions like Jamat-e-Islami and others actually opposed the creation of Pakistan while the Ahmadis supported it. Part of the reason was that Jinnah was not seen as a "good" Muslim, nor did he hold fundamentalist views. In fact, he was about as secular as they come. JI did eventually cave in and start supporting the creation of a new country because they saw that as an opportunity to have an Islamic missionary state.

Then the most tragic thing that could happen to Pakistan happened. Jinnah died a year after independence. This was huge turning point in Pakistan's history because he most likely would have wiped the country clean of any Islamist movements and put in place a secular leaning constitution. His vision was of a secular country for any stateless Muslims, not what it's turned into today.

During the 50s, JI did what extremist movements do. They started rioting to demand that the Ahmadis be banned from calling themselves Muslims. Over 200 people were killed in Lahore until the army stepped in quashed the riots.

Then in 1973, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto officially ****ed the Ahmadis over for the first time. That's right, the guy hailed in the West as a champion of democracy put into the Pakistani constitution that Ahmadis are Kafirs. This was a Frank Underwood type ploy to get the JI followers in his pocket. This was followed up by another amendment in 1984 by another asshole General Zia-ul-Haq (military dictator) who made it illegal for Ahmadis to call themselves Muslims. Yup you guessed it, an Ahmadi could be put into jail for it.

The purpose of my long ass post is to show just how tragic this whole thing has been. The ****wads that didn't even want the country ended up dictating terms to **** over a minority group that was responsible for getting Jinnah's ass in tow and work towards creation of Pakistan.

Wanna see more tragedy? Abdus Salam was an Ahmadi physicist (did a lot of work on the theory of neutrinos) and Nobel prize winner who considered himself a Pakistani above all. Read his story here (at least the religion and death sections).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#Religion


Thank you for this great post.

The pattern I am seeing, across the Muslim world, is that the tolerant minority groups like the Kurds, Ahmadis and Sufis are constantly oppressed and persecuted by the majority sects of Islam.

Was this always the case throughout the history of Islam or is it a recent thing that has only begun in the past 100 years or so?