Was Ronald Reagan a great President?

[Heilige]

What are your thoughts on Ronald Reagan and his presidency?

Was he overrated or underrated? Was he a great president?

[Back In Shape]

http://www.historycentral.com/elections/1984PresElect.jpg

[NumberSix]

Underrated. His legacy got thwarted by the Bush establishment taking over the party immediately after RR's presidency though.

[Duderonomy]

Rich people loved him their tax rates went down from 50% to 25%. Of course trickle down economics lead to a minor recession in the early nineties under Bush.

[Heilige]

Underrated. His legacy got thwarted by the Bush establishment taking over the party immediately after RR's presidency though.


What was wrong with Bush Sr and his administration?

[Heilige]

http://www.historycentral.com/elections/1984PresElect.jpg


Very impressive. Do you think he was a great President?

[FillJackson]

Underrated.
By Whom? Republicans have been venerating him for decades?

[navy]

Underrated. His legacy got thwarted by the Bush establishment taking over the party immediately after RR's presidency though.
False. Most overrated president of our time.

Dude was a legit hack.

[Back In Shape]

By Whom? Republicans have been venerating him for decades?

And Democrats from Clinton to Obama. :lol

[Kblaze8855]

Its hard t ocall him underrated. Hes who 70% of politicians try to compare themselves to directly or indirectly it seems. One thing im 100% sure of....he knew how to talk. Speeches...off the top...whatever. He was pretty nice on the mic and thats like....90% of people liking you. you dont have to be right....if you sound right and make people feel good about themselves and the country.

[Heilige]

Its hard t ocall him underrated. Hes who 70% of politicians try to compare themselves to directly or indirectly it seems. One thing im 100% sure of....he knew how to talk. Speeches...off the top...whatever. He was pretty nice on the mike and thats like....90% of people liking you. you dont have to be right....if you sound right and make people feel good about themselves and the country.


How did he learn to become such a great public speaker?

Also, on a sidenote how would you rank the presidents from the 60s until now? (JFK-Obama)

[longhornfan1234]

Reagan is one GOAT presidents. Ranked alongside Washington, Jefferson, Ike, and Theo

[NumberSix]

What was wrong with Bush Sr and his administration?
Bush Sr. is the epitome of the old school north eastern establishment. That segment of the GOP has never been in favor of movement conservatives like Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan.

[Lakers Legend#32]

U.S. went from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation under Reagan's policies. You saw the beginning of the transfer of income from the middle class to the 1% under Reagan.

Need I go on?

[ThePhantomCreep]

U.S. went from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation under Reagan's policies. You saw the beginning of the transfer of income from the middle class to the 1% under Reagan.

Need I go on?

Reagan also spent like a war-time president during a period when we were not at war. All to "take out" an imploding giant, the Soviet Union.

When the Cold War ended, the excessive defense spending dried up, and in came the early 90s recession.

Reagan = ridiculously overrated, he's only top tier by GOP standards, which are impossibly low.

[NumberSix]

Reagan also spent like a war-time president during a period when we were not at war. All to "take out" an imploding giant, the Soviet Union.

When the Cold War ended, the excessive defense spending dried up, and in came the early 90s recession.

Reagan = ridiculously overrated, he's only top tier by GOP standards, which are impossibly low.
Why do you think it imploded?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Why do you think it imploded?

An unsustainable economy built largely around defense spending. The quagmire in Afghanistan was the pebble that eventually caused the sick, tired old Soviet Union to stumble and collapse.

Reagan's speeches, brilliant as they were, had little do with it. His expensive gadgetry--largely unused--played an even smaller role.

Wanna see a myth?

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/REGANField24x36_1920-640x426.jpg

[Heilige]

An unsustainable economy built largely around defense spending. The quagmire in Afghanistan was the pebble that eventually caused the sick, tired old Soviet Union to stumble and collapse.

Reagan's speeches, brilliant as they were, had little do with it. His expensive gadgetry--largely unused--played an even smaller role.

Wanna see a myth?

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/REGANField24x36_1920-640x426.jpg


How did Reagan become such a great public speaker? What do you think were his best speeches?

[TheMan]

U.S. went from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation under Reagan's policies. You saw the beginning of the transfer of income from the middle class to the 1% under Reagan.

Need I go on?
Reagan also went against labor unions, thus ensuring that workers no longer had collective bargaining, shifting all the balance of power to corporations, which spelled the begining of the end of good wages and the end of the middle class.

Fvck Reagan

[Bosnian Sajo]

How did he learn to become such a great public speaker?

Also, on a sidenote how would you rank the presidents from the 60s until now? (JFK-Obama)


Why is every single one of your posts a question?


Are you clueless? Or are you trolling?

[NumberSix]

Reagan also went against labor unions, thus ensuring that workers no longer had collective bargaining, shifting all the balance of power to corporations, which spelled the begining of the end of good wages and the end of the middle class.

Fvck Reagan
Lol. The unmitigated stupidity of this statement. :roll:

Hey, genius, what's stopping a group of workers from collectively asking for a better deal and negotiating?

:hammerhead:


The problem you people don't understand is.... Your leverage to bargain is entirely dependant on your value. A group of minimum wage workers can collectively bargain if they want. Nothing is stopping them. The problem though is that if you're flipping burgers, making fries or filling soda cups, you have no leverage. These are not special skills that are hard to find. People doing these jobs are immediately replaceable. The boss doesn't have to negotiate. If don't want this job, there are a thousand people lined up to take it.

You don't want collective bargaining. Everything is negotiable. There's no law stopping employees from negotiating. You want people with no leverage to be able to demand more than people willing to replace them with the option of replacing them to be banned by the government. You want the element of competition to be removed from the equation.

[1987_Lakers]

- One of the reasons why you see so many homeless people today is because of Reagan. Reagan closed all government-run mental hospitals in the United States. Because of this, people started living on the streets from the hospitals; people who could not talk clearly, people who had been under medical care for various mental disorders -- veterans, the elderly, both men and women, and children.

- It was Reagan who pushed through a tax break for corporations that was to help create jobs. However, since there was nothing in the bill to keep the money in the USA, the corporations built plants overseas and employed non-US workers

- The Reagan administration armed and supported the Mujahedeen rebels in Afghanistan, who later became the terrorist organization, Al Qaeda. Hence 9/11.

- At least 138 Reagan administration officials, including several cabinet members, were investigated, indicted or convicted of crimes. This is the largest number of any US President.

In the long run he did more harm than good for this country. Rich people love him, the middle class and the poor hate him.

[ThePhantomCreep]

How did Reagan become such a great public speaker? What do you think were his best speeches?
His speech at the 1964 Republican Convention immediately springs to mind, and his speech at the 1992 Convention was almost as good. Funny enough, the candidates he endorsed lost those elections. Great speeches doe.

Say what you want about Reagan, the man was a master orater who gave off a likeable, personable vibe in his speeches and interviews. He had a great self-deprecating wit that got millions of Americans to relate to him. His acting background obviously helped him in this regard.

This is what makes the Reagan/Trump comparisons so stupifying--Trump's temperment is damn near anti-Reagan in every regard. He's a horrible speech-giver with zero wit, he's quick to anger, can't take a joke to save his life, and trashes his opponents and political party mercilessly and at every turn (Reagan in contrast coined the 11th commandment). Trump is an unlikable SOB in every regard, while Reagan gave off a lovable grandpa vibe in his prime.

Anyone who thinks Donald can pull off a Reagan 1980 comeback with his massive likeability issues is simply delusional.

[FillJackson]

How did he learn to become such a great public speaker?
He was an actor first and then he was hired as a TV host by General Eletric.
As part of that contract he had to tour around to GE plants giving speeches. Many of the speeches had an anti-union bent. This was the same time he transformed from a New Deal Anti-Communist FDR Democrat over to a Conservative Goldwater Republican
http://www.amazon.com/The-Education-Ronald-Reagan-Conservatism/dp/023113861X


[QUOTE] Having a visible spokesman who toured these decentralized operations would help sell the company

[Back In Shape]

- At least 138 Reagan administration officials, including several cabinet members, were investigated, indicted or convicted of crimes. This is the largest number of any US President.


Based on an unobjective compilation of friends and associates. Let's take a look at convictions within the administration

Nixon 40
Clinton 33
Reagan 31

Who do you think this is? It ain't Reagan


The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- Second president accused of rape**
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

[FillJackson]

- The Reagan administration armed and supported the Mujahedeen rebels in Afghanistan, who later became the terrorist organization, Al Qaeda. Hence 9/11.
Arming the Afghan rebels started in 1979 under Carter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone). Reagan supported this and increased the amount amount ofaid, but he didn't start this.

The "Mujahedeen Rebels" did not become Al Qaeda. The Rebels that we supported were large Afghan groups. The group that became Al Qaeda was a small Arab group that involved Egyptians and Saudis and was headed by a Palestinian. It was also a self-funded organization that survived on charity donations mainly from the Arab world. Afterwards when they left Afghanistan they hyped their influence on the war to make themselves look more important and more central. Arab fighters had very little influence on the battlefield.

It's correct to say that Al Qaeda came out of the Afghan Jihad, but it's incorrect to the US funded Al Qaeda. You can say the heroin operation in American gangster came out of the Vietnam War, but it's incorrect to say the US funded Frank Lucas.

[FillJackson]

Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers

- At least 138 Reagan administration officials, including several cabinet members, were investigated, indicted or convicted of crimes.

Based on an unobjective compilation of friends and associates. Let's take a look at convictions within the administration

Nixon 40
Clinton 33
Reagan 31

This seems like not only moving the goalposts, but changing the shape of the goalposts.
Are you comparing
administration officials including several cabinet members

to

friends and associates?

Who are the 33 Clinton folks you are speaking about?

[Jasper]

OVERRATED : BUT
he inspired people to be more proud of being an American.

There is a reason why Clinton helped the economy= Reagan/Bush screwed up the GNP.

[Heilige]

Why is every single one of your posts a question?


Are you clueless? Or are you trolling?


Why don't you **** off pal.

[BoutPractice]

If "great" means "transformative" then yes.

His foreign policy helped America become the undisputed world hegemon... but also helps explain why it can't remain in that position for long.

(Although Clinton and the Bushes didn't help, the US was already on an unsustainable trajectory by the time they got into the Oval Office)

The same thing could be said of his domestic policy: spectacular short term effects hiding massive long term damage.

So in a sense, your view of Reagan is dependent on how you think of bubbles. Yes, bubbles end up bursting, a tragic outcome... but aren't they great while they're happening? It's just like manic depression - the manic part of it can be quite fun... And perhaps that rise and fall dynamic is inseparable from greatness. If you don't take stupid risks, you probably won't achieve huge success either.

Another thing is certain: he was extremely good at playing the part of the president (giving off an aura of confidence, inspiring people through speeches, etc.), an underrated trait that helps keep a nation together.

There's a reason why people often like FDR, JFK and Reagan at the same time even though they had very different political views. Reagan just had the "it" factor that made citizens feel good about their country.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Interestingly enough, he's beloved by a lot of people I know who were alive during those times and I read about what he did for this country. Fantastic president at the time but a lot of his policies in place turned bad over time.

My parents told me a lot of people in their old neighborhood in Queens which was really rough at the time thought Reagen was the worst. So it varies opinion wise.

[TYCRO]

Reagan is the most overrated Republican president. He actually hurt the US long term by giving the biggest increase in tax cuts to the rich of all time, leading to disparity of wealth problem we have now with the whole 1% owns most everything thing.

FDR is the most overrated Democratic president. His biggest problem was the internment camps.

[west_tip]

Reagan had a very personable demeanor, I think someone on this thread said it earlier, he had that Grandpa swag. Another thing, he had a great sense of humor and was a good joke and story teller which endeared him to the public.

[NumberSix]

Reagan is the most overrated Republican president. He actually hurt the US long term by giving the biggest increase in tax cuts to the rich of all time, leading to disparity of wealth problem we have now with the whole 1% owns most everything thing.

FDR is the most overrated Democratic president. His biggest problem was the internment camps.
Why is that a problem?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Why is that a problem?

How are you not a parody account?

[NumberSix]

How are you not a parody account?
Any answer?

[MMM]

Reagan has always been overrated in my book. Frankly Nixon was the best republican president over the last 50 years

[greymatter]

Rich people loved him their tax rates went down from 50% to 25%. Of course trickle down economics lead to a minor recession in the early nineties under Bush.

Try 70% to 28. Bottom bracket rose from 10% to 15%. He followed up with the largest peace time tax increase in history (affected small businesses the most) with his payroll tax increase in 1983.

Imbeciles like to give him credit for the fall of the USSR when that was purely a result of an internal power struggle (aka Perestroika) going wrong for Gorbachev.

The national debt went from 800B to 3.2T in his 8 years in office, yet you still have conservatards who like to say "tax cuts spur increases in tax revenue (aka voodoo economics)" when in fact that hasn't happened.....ever.

He oversaw the largest peacetime increase in federal spending (mostly military).

[greymatter]

Reagan also spent like a war-time president during a period when we were not at war. All to "take out" an imploding giant, the Soviet Union.

When the Cold War ended, the excessive defense spending dried up, and in came the early 90s recession.

Reagan = ridiculously overrated, he's only top tier by GOP standards, which are impossibly low.

He's arguably the 3rd worst president (behind Jimmy Carter And Bush II) since WWII.

[TheMan]

Why is that a problem?:biggums:
:eek:
:wtf:
:facepalm

[masonanddixon]

U.S. went from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation under Reagan's policies. You saw the beginning of the transfer of income from the middle class to the 1% under Reagan.

Need I go on?

THIS.

And to answer the question posed earlier, Obama is easily the worst President since the 1960s

[Springsteen]

Any answer?

You really think the continued circulation of policies benefitting the top percentage by having politicians in their pocket isn't a bad thing? Gee, I hope Reagan's trickle down plan kicks in someday.

Isn't America supposed to be a land of social and financial mobility? The American Dream and all that? How is that possible when policies are built to benefit the same people bankrolling these politicians first and foremost?

Why is the wealth disparity a problem? Are you on the Koch Brothers bankroll or something? Jesus Christ. :facepalm

[NumberSix]

You really think the continued circulation of policies benefitting the top percentage by having politicians in their pocket isn't a bad thing? Gee, I hope Reagan's trickle down plan kicks in someday.

Isn't America supposed to be a land of social and financial mobility? The American Dream and all that? How is that possible when policies are built to benefit the same people bankrolling these politicians first and foremost?

Why is the wealth disparity a problem? Are you on the Koch Brothers bankroll or something? Jesus Christ. :facepalm
I think we're seeing right now that politicians taking corporate money is becoming a liability. If Hillary Clinton had a remotely competent opponent in the democrat primary, she would have the democrat Jeb Bush.

The people aren't stupid. They can see for themselves what the deal is. Why do you always think the government needs to step in instead of just trusting the judgment of the voters? Why don't you think the voters can be trusted to make these decisions?

[TYCRO]

Why is that a problem?
:coleman:

[rufuspaul]

Reagan was awesome. Was he perfect? No, but he was just the shot in the arm this country needed in the 80s. He was so popular and beat the dems so badly that they're still salty about it.

[Springsteen]

The people aren't stupid. They can see for themselves what the deal is. Why do you always think the government needs to step in instead of just trusting the judgment of the voters? Why don't you think the voters can be trusted to make these decisions?

You seem like a smart guy. Are you really underestimating the stupidity of a huge chunk of people in this country? Or did you forget no less than a couple months ago Donald Trump saying how much he loved "uneducated" voters in his victory speech?

It's both ignorant and false to assume every American has the same level of education as you or me, and likewise an understanding of the implications of what each candidate is proposing.

Just because voters should be and always be first and foremost in which way our government goes does not mean they'll make a wholly educated decision.

[Long Duck Dong]

Trump won't benefit from the dumbest of voters if history is any indication. Exit polls say in 2012, Obama got over 2/3 of the HS dropout vote and 70% of the criminal and ex convict vote.

[FillJackson]

And to answer the question posed earlier, Obama is easily the worst President since the 1960s

Ironically, Obama's favorability rating is higher than Reagan's at this point in their administrations. Reagan's had fallen due to the Iran-Contra scandal.

Also the current GOP frontrunner has favorability ratings similar to George W. Bush at this point in his administration.

Both Reagan's and Clinton's favorability soared in the last months of their administrations. Reagan very much so.


Folks who overrate Reagan gloss over Iran-Contra and unemployment that went as high as 10.8%.

Also some of the most hard-core Reaganites didn't like his signature achievement, recognizing the uniqueness of Gorbachev and working with him. It was a change from Regan's previous rhetoric and behavior and the hard core right hated it. (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/17/magazine/the-right-against-reagan.html?pagewanted=all)

Here's some of things Newt Gingrich said about Reagan (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2012/01/newt-ronald-reagan-is-as-dangerous-as-neville-chamberlain/) during the 80's.

[QUOTE]Such was Gingrich

[FillJackson]

George Schultz was probably the first to see the opportunity of Gorbachev. He is hugely influential in Reagan's legacy.