Kerr forgot about the quadruple flood

[3ball]

https://media.giphy.com/media/10RuiINsEB5SHm/giphy.gif


Kerr mentioned that today's player faces an extra defender flooding to the strongside, but he forgot that players in previous eras faced up to FOUR defenders in 'flooding position', as seen above.

The quadruple-floods resulted from the lack of 3-point shooting and spacing strategy - defenders didn't have to guard the 3-point line on the weakside, which allowed them to remain on the strongside and therefore in perpetual flooding position.. Ultimately, the lack of weakside spacing meant that players faced more strongside defenders.

Btw, Kerr said that under the OLD rules, flooding would result in the Warriors being called for an illegal defense violation, while under the NEW rules, the Bulls would commit a violation by hand-checking.

But this is irrelevant to the Bulls/Warriors matchup because both teams would be allowed to flood if they played under today's rules, and both teams would be able to hand-check under the old rules.. Kerr was dodging the question.
.

[Im Still Ballin]

Illegal Defense Official NBA Guidelines
A. Technical Foul

Section I-Illegal Defenses

a. Illegal defenses which violate the rules and accepted guidelines set forth are not permitted in the NBA.

b. When the offensive team is in its backcourt with the ball, no illegal defense violation may occur.

(1) Penalties for Illegal Defenses.

On the first violation, the 24-second clock is reset to 24. On the second and succeeding violations, the clock is reset to 24 and one free throw (technical) is attempted. When a violation occurs during the last 24 seconds of any period (including overtime), regardless of the number of prior offenses, one free throw is awarded for the violation. (On all violations, the ball is awarded to the offended team out-of-bounds at the free throw line extended on either side of the court.)

EXCEPTION: If a field goal attempt is simultaneous with a whistle for an illegal violation, and that attempt is successful, the basket shall count and the violation is nullified.

(2) Guidelines for Defensive Coverage

a. Weakside defenders may be in a defensive position within the "outside lane" with no time limit, and within the "Inside lane" for 2.9 seconds. The defensive player must re-establish a position with both feet out of the "Insidelane" to be considered as having legally cleared the restricted area.

b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area.

c. An offensive player without the ball may not be double-teamed from the weakside. Only the player with the ball may be double-teamed by a weakside defensive player. Weakside and strongside restrictions shall extend from the baseline to the midcourt line.

d. When an offensive player, with or without the ball, takes a position above the foul line, the defensive player may be no farther (toward the baseline) than the "middle defensive area." Defensive player(s) may enter and re-enter the "lower defensive area" as many times as desired, so long as he does not exceed 2.9 seconds.

e. When a weakside offensive player is above the free throw line extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the "middle defensive area" extended for more than 2.9 seconds. When a weakside offensive player is below the free throw line extended, his defensive man must vacate the "inside lane" unless his man is positioned adjacent (posted up) to the threesecond lane extended. When a weakside offensive player is above the tip of the circle, his defensive man must be no lower than the "upper defensive area" for more than 2.9 seconds. When a strongside offensive player is above the tip of the circle extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the free-throw line extended (upper defensive area) for more than 2.9 seconds. When a strongside offensive player is above the free throw line extended "upper defensive area, his defensive man may be no lower than the "middle defensive area" for more than 2.9 seconds. When an offensive player on the strongside is below the free throw line extended "middle defensive area," his defender must take a position below the free throw line extended immediately or double-team the ball as soon as the ball crosses midcourt. There is no 2.9 time limit. If the offensive player relocates to a position above the free throw line extended, his defender may take a similar position no farther than one defensive area away within 2.9 seconds. In all of the situations above, a defensive player may always aggressively double-team the ball regardless of his previous position on the floor.

f. When an offensive player takes a position above the tip of the circle, with or without the ball, the defensive player may be no farther (toward the baseline) from him than the "upper defensive area."

g. A defensive player must follow his weakside offensive man, switch to another man at an area of intersection, or double-team the ball. There is no 2.9-second time limit on this play. A defensive player must execute one of these three options or he is guilty of an illegal defense immediately.

h. A defensive player must follow his strongside offensive man, switch to another man at an area of intersection, or double-team the ball. There is a 2.9-second time limit on this play which commences when the defensive player reaches the weakside and "opens up."

i. A double team is when two or more defenders aggressively pursue a player with the ball to a position close enough for a held ball to occur. Failure to comply with paragraphs (a) through (i) above will result in an Illegal Defense violation.

http://share.gifyoutube.com/m6orYV.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yAVn1D.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/Kr5r9w.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KBpn5n.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/y0x7wP.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/vWrE84.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/mGpE10.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KYd8xJ.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/mlD7oa.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yoXOod.gif

gif source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM_eCnTNt1Q

[Im Still Ballin]

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

Game

Set

Match

[3ball]

http://share.gifyoutube.com/mlD7oa.gif



Rodman didn't cause the illegal defense dumbass, Alonzo Mourning does






http://share.gifyoutube.com/Kr5r9w.gif




The gifs below shows Lebron with FAR more room than Isiah because help defenders must guard the 3-point line on the far weakside and stay out of the paint:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-22-2015/WAhpK1.gif



Otoh, Isiah's help defenders DON'T have to defend the 3-point line on the far weakside - their assignments are near the paint, so they get to stay in the paint and closer to help on Isiah.






http://share.gifyoutube.com/KBpn5n.gif


This gif shows Jordan finishing on 3 defenders that were WAITING at the rim for him..

Today's defenders don't get to wait in the paint - they must help from OUTSIDE the paint due to 3-point shooting/spacing and defensive 3 seconds.






http://share.gifyoutube.com/y0x7wP.gif



^^^^ Non-existent paint defense - 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds keep the paint clear and forces defenders to help from OUTSIDE the paint, instead of waiting IN the paint like previous eras.






http://share.gifyoutube.com/vWrE84.gif



This is a far tougher setup:


https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0BKishrkuHZV0IDK/giphy.gif





http://share.gifyoutube.com/mGpE10.gif



^^^^^^ Duhon isn't sagging off Chalmers that much... Otoh, Howard Eisley is sagging off Ron Harper much more in the gif below, which leads to an AND1 for Jordan:


https://media.giphy.com/media/iSpANTOVvzvnW/giphy.gif






http://share.gifyoutube.com/KYd8xJ.gif


Look how many defenders are waiting in the paint.. paint defense >>>>..
.

[Genaro]

Yeah, I would take your word vs the guy who actually played for the Bulls and now coaches the Warriors

[Im Still Ballin]

"I never liked zones," Jordan said. "I felt like that's a lazy way to play defense and with them, you can eliminate a lot of the stars making things happen."


Bothered by Charlotte's zone defense, Jordan fell out of rhythm in the final period and made just five of his 11 tries. He missed four straight midway through the quarter, and after hitting a late 3-pointer to cut the deficit to four, the ball slipped out of Jordan's hands under Charlotte's basket after the Hornets double-teamed him.



"A couple of times I got in and I just couldn't finish it," said Jordan, who shot 11-for-28.

The ether keeps on flowing. We've been down this road before bro. I WIN.

[Smoke117]

Meltdown.

[Im Still Ballin]

"But for scorers like myself and Carmelo and KD, the rules from the '80s can be more beneficial for us, because you have to be played straight up. You want to double team, you got to come all the way over. So, for us, I don't care if you hand check us with three hands. If there's nobody behind you, you're not going to stop us. So the zone I think cripples some of the top scorers." - Kobe Bryant

"Coming into the NBA, one of the fun things I thought about was playing against man-to-man all of the time. Now you get to throw a bunch of junk defenses and zones. It's changed the game. It's like college. It just doesn't seem like a real NBA game. I think it's a bad, bad rule. Man-to-man was great. The game was fine just the way it was. The zone thing takes a lot of fun away from the NBA game. Now the NBA game is just like college." - Allen Iverson

,,,

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGr3AJfV1rA


They even put a zone in the leaugue to try to stop him

[Prime_Shaq]

Battle of the gifs

[FKAri]

and OP forgot about his meds :lol

[IllegalD]

The ether keeps on flowing. We've been down this road before bro. I WIN.


:eek:

3ball ethered by the words of his own God. :lol

[Im Still Ballin]

:eek:

3ball ethered by the words of his own God. :lol
Bro. I got so much more. Just wait. Been clowning this dog for years now

[Im Still Ballin]

Rule Enforced Spacing
Rule Enforced Spacing relates to the offensive floor spacing teams achieved during the Illegal Defense period (1981-2001)

1981 - Illegal Defense Guidelines put in place to increase scoring and open up the paint
Passage from Bill Simmons' (Globally known NBA analyst, well respected publically) book

[QUOTE]The new wave of coaches made defenses sophisticated enough by 1981 that the league created an

[Im Still Ballin]

Shooting Encouraged Spacing
Shooting Encouraged Spacing refers to the offensive floor spreading, occurring after Illegal Defense was removed in 2001. "Encouraged" implies that it is not mandatory, or enforced, to space the floor. Whereas with Rule Enforced Spacing, failure to spread the court with accordance to the Illegal Defense Guidelines, results in a technical and eventual free throws.

2001 - Removal of Illegal Defense Guidelines
Purpose: To encourage ball movement and team play through giving defenses more freedom to defend, particularly help defense from the weak side, which was extremely restricted from 1981-2001 with the Illegal defense guideline in place

(Up coming quotes are from some of the most renowned and well respected NBA analysts and writers on the Earth today. Earning the big bucks because they are the best at what they do... Including ESPN's Henry Abbott, and Grantland's Zach Lowe)

[QUOTE]

[3ball]

.
.................................................. ......SPACING

In the picture below, weakside 3-point shooters (spacing) have drawn defenders away from the strongside.. If Joakim Noah doesn't leave #20 Mozgov and flood to the strongside, the strongside will only have 2 defenders to contest Lebron.


http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png



Otoh, the 80's and 90's didn't shoot 3-pointers like today's game - those eras didn't have shooters on the weakside (spacing) drawing defenders away from the strongside, so the strongside was already flooded with all 5 defenders.. With all 5 defenders on the strongside and multiple defenders already standing where Joakim Noah flooded to, floods weren't necessary:


https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0BKishrkuHZV0IDK/giphy.gif


Ultimately, spacing causes today's defenders to make extra rotations.. But without that spacing (previous eras), defenders were already in closer proximity and the rotations weren't necessary.

Spacing and defensive movement offset each other, which is why league-wide offensive rating (the stat measuring how hard it is to score) has been stable for 30 years.. Excluding a brief downswing from 1999-2004, ORtg has ranged between 105-108 since 1980, including an all-time high of 108.3 in 2009.. The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.

30 years of stable ORtg proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras).
.

[jstern]

I think action, results speaks louder than out of context quotes, and the fact of the matter is that the rules were changed to make this a more perimeter friendly game. And the results show that.

Like Kerr said, the rules benefit Curry because you can't touch anyone, else it will be a foul. Someone his size wouldn't be winning MVPs. Thus he wouldn't be looking at Curry when he was the Sun's GM.

[3ball]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Bheqr6H8ZiQOk/giphy.gif


defenders had to guard Rodman tightly at the 3-point line because the rules said so.


Let me get this straight - you think it was illegal for Hornacek and Stockton to sag off Kerr/Kukoc in the GIF above?

You think they were "getting away" with something?.. Don't embarrass yourself - that was STANDARD back then.. A cursory glance at footage shows that defenders in previous eras were allowed to sag off shooters just as much as today's defender.
.




Today's NBA allows zone


False - zone is not allowed inside the paint.

Inside the paint, defenders must stay within "armslength" of their man, which is the OPPOSITE of a zone.

"Armslength" is the strictest defense possible other than making the players stay shoulder-to-shoulder... Nonetheless, this strict rule (opposite of a zone) is what governs the most important area of the floor: the paint.





Elite scorer numbers are down across the board


Not for guards or wing players - there's more 20 ppg point guards, shooting guards and small forwards in today's game than previous eras.

Otoh, the 20 ppg big men have declined as the focus on more efficient plays involving 3-pointers increased.

[navy]

Damn

[JohnMax]

http://i.imgur.com/79c7dOg.png

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1065485/eminem-stan-o.gif

[bdreason]

Patented push-off from MJ. :applause:

[HighFlyer23]

Get back on your Clozaril you stupid fvcker

[WorldWarriors]

I think action, results speaks louder than out of context quotes, and the fact of the matter is that the rules were changed to make this a more perimeter friendly game. And the results show that.

Like Kerr said, the rules benefit Curry because you can't touch anyone, else it will be a foul. Someone his size wouldn't be winning MVPs. Thus he wouldn't be looking at Curry when he was the Sun's GM.

You do know when he was the Suns GM he had a deal with the Warriors for the pick if Curry fell to 7.

[G0ATbe]

Jordan fans getting body bagged as usual:applause:

[PJR]

3ball getting double fisted in this bih

[raprap]

ISB wins again :sleeping

[CuterThanRubio]

Game

Set

Match


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/4330535/snoop-crushed-buildings-o.gif

3ball is one of the most persistent trolls I've seen, any realistic person would have recognized the truth by now.

[Lebronxrings]

stop posting you losers, no one reads your posts.

[Im Still Ballin]

These rule changes, though nearly unanimously adopted by the league, are not meeting with unanimous agreement among league followers, especially the elimination of the illegal defense rules. Players who have made their living beating defenders off one-on-one sets are particularly fearful that their impact will be reduced with zones allowed. With no increase in the shot clock, there is fear that offenses will be forced into a lot of rushed shots at the end of the clock. - Dean Oliver
[QUOTE]
Before this rule change was even put in place, there were those around the association expressing their concerns. Steve Smith, a guard with Portland at the time, said,

[sfballa13]

Jordan faced off against Isiah, Joe Dumars, Hakeem and Clyde, Ewing, Baby Shaq, Barkley, Magic Johnson and the Lakers, and Bird and the Celtics

How did he do?

Two 3 peats - 6 Finals MVPs

Game. Set. Match.

Save yourself the trouble, no one comes close to Jordan, and no one ever will just like no one will come close to Wayne in hockey

[3ball]

These rule changes, though nearly unanimously adopted by the league, are not meeting with unanimous agreement among league followers, especially the elimination of the illegal defense rules. Players who have made their living beating defenders off one-on-one sets are particularly fearful that their impact will be reduced with zones allowed. With no increase in the shot clock, there is fear that offenses will be forced into a lot of rushed shots at the end of the clock. - Dean Oliver

Before this rule change was even put in place, there were those around the association expressing their concerns. Steve Smith, a guard with Portland at the time, said, “You put in zone you take away stars.” “I think it’s a huge mistake,” Pat Riley said. We should create a situation where great players get a chance to excel. Zones neutralize athletic ability. People want to see guys who can soar to the basket … People will be coming up with all kinds of crazy defenses.”



All of your quotes are from BEFORE the 2005 rule changes, when everyone thought the NBA was going to allow a full zone, like in college.

But the 2005 rules ended up BANNING zone inside the most important area of the floor - the paint.. Inside the paint, defenders must stay within arms length (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man, which is the OPPOSITE of a zone:



"A defensive player is not allowed inside the key area for more than three seconds unless he is guarding the player with the ball or is actively guarding any opponent. To be considered actively guarding, a defender must be within an arms length of an opponent. If an offensive player moves through the key, the defender must be within an arms length, and also move along with the offensive player. He can not just stand there and put his arms out to get a new three second count."


"Arms length" is the strictest defense possible other than making the players stay shoulder-to-shoulder... Nonetheless, this strict rule (opposite of a zone) is what governs the most important area of the floor: the paint.

In addition to banning paint-camping and zone inside the paint, the 2005 rules also banned hand-checking, which everyone views as more prohibitive to scoring than a zone anyway - once Jordan found out about the hand-check ban, he said he'd score 100, and everyone agreed.







You couldn’t flood to the strongside box back then. There were great teams like Chuck Daly’s Pistons and Pat Riley’s Lakers that devised “zone,” so to speak, to kind of flood the ball more, but it was nothing, Henry [Abbott of ESPN], like it is today. - David Thorpe



David Thorpe is spreading false information.. Defenders in previous eras didn't need a rule allowing them to flood the strongside because they were already ON the strongside - Thorpe forgets that defenders didn't have to guard 3-pointers, including 3-pointers on the weakside, so they REMAINED on the strongside throughout a possession:


https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0BKishrkuHZV0IDK/giphy.gif


Otoh, today's defenders NEED a rule allowing them to flood over because they must defend 3-pointers on the weakside on every possession and are therefore spread out over the ENTIRE court (not just bunched up on the strongside like previous eras, shown above).







"besides Laimbeer’s awful individual effort, there are a number of instances in which the Pistons, as a team, wait for Jordan to make his move before taking action to stop him from scoring." - Beckley Mason


"Waiting" was the only option for defenders because they were already "waiting" in the paint!

There were no 3-point shooters drawing defenders out of the paint and paint-camping was legal, so defenders WAITED in the paint on penetrators, rather than helping from outside the paint like today's spaced-out defenders are forced to do.


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif







"Also, the on-ball defender seems to have no plan for where to push Jordan. Often Dumars et al play him straight, and [lets] Jordan decide where he wants to go." - Beckley Mason


Hand-checking was LEGAL back then and it's common knowledge that hand-checking allows the defender to push the ballhandler wherever he wants..

So the notion that the ballhandler has more freedom of movement is ridiculous and the exact opposite of the well-known truth.







"the Celtics are called for two defensive three-second violations because they are preemptively over-rotating to fill the spaces LeBron would like to use." - Beckley Mason


They only reason the Celtics' defenders had to rotate AT ALL is because they were guarding 3-point shooters on the weakside, so they were far away from Lebron on the strongside.

In previous eras, none of Lebron's teammates would be shooting 3-pointers, so the Celtic defenders wouldn't need to rotate - they'd already be on the strongside, as shown in previous gifs.







"Although ‘89 Jordan may be able to escape his first defender more easily in today’s game [due to his thoughts on hand-checking], good defensive teams would employ more aggressive and nuanced schemes to keep him from the hoop. Ultimately, it’s these second and third layers and lines of defense that matter most." - Beckley Mason



There aren't 2nd or 3rd layers in today's defenses because the paint is wide open - 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds clears the paint and forces defenders to help from OUTSIDE the paint:


https://media.giphy.com/media/NEIQcXmA55bOg/giphy.gif



In previous eras, there were no 3-point shooters to draw defenders out of the paint and paint-camping was legal, so defenders could wait in the paint and provide MULTIPLE LAYERS of resistance:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif







Once upon a time, lots of teams preferred an isolation offense, which meant one player dribbling alone against one defender, while as many as eight guys caught breathers. - Henry Abbott



Today's 3-point shooting/spacing forces defenders to help from further away, which gives ballhandlers more time and room than ever before to isolate - in the 2015 Finals, Lebron isolated more than any player EVER HAS:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif

[Dro]

All I know is that I think its absolutely ridiculous that somebody would use quotes BEFORE the rule changes to try to win this argument. And yes, we've been down this road and its incredibly stupid. Lets ignore stats that say scoring has jumped way up since the rules changes and lets just focus on what was said before all of that with NO knowledge of the how game would actually play out when said rules changes were introduced.

So next time Barkley says something on TV, lets just take his word for it. Next time Barkley says a jump shooting team will never win the NBA title, lets keep saying he's correct even after its already been proven wrong. Awesome...

[sd3035]

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin]Rule Enforced Spacing
Rule Enforced Spacing relates to the offensive floor spacing teams achieved during the Illegal Defense period (1981-2001)

1981 - Illegal Defense Guidelines put in place to increase scoring and open up the paint
Passage from Bill Simmons' (Globally known NBA analyst, well respected publically) book



Effect:
1979 league average offensive rating: 103.8

1981-82

[Segatti]

Jordan faced off against Isiah, Joe Dumars, Hakeem and Clyde, Ewing, Baby Shaq, Barkley, Magic Johnson and the Lakers, and Bird and the Celtics

How did he do?

Two 3 peats - 6 Finals MVPs

Game. Set. Match.

Save yourself the trouble, no one comes close to Jordan, and no one ever will just like no one will come close to Wayne in hockey


Isiah, Joe Dumars

Didn't beat them without Scottie.


Magic Johnson and the Lakers, and Bird and the Celtics

Didn't beat them in their primes.


Hakeem

They didn't even play against each other in the playoffs, wtf :oldlol:


Clyde, Ewing, Baby Shaq, Barkley

Jordan had the better supporting team against all of them.

[Im Still Ballin]

Exactly - that interview with Garnett, McGrady and Duncan was done in 2003, BEFORE the 2005 rule changes that banned zone inside the paint and hand-checking.

After the 2005 rule changes, those same players and many more said it's a perimeter player's game, and guys like MJ would score 100 in today's game.

The banning of hand-checking and zone inside the paint reset the entire regulatory environment and sent the league's brand of basketball on a different path (easier penetration to facilitate more drive-and-kick, as the league officially stated (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) was their intention).
Illegal defense was fully removed in 2001

3 seconds in the key was not a new rule, in fact it was brought to the game in 1981, along with all the other Illegal defense rules

[3ball]

Didn't beat them without Scottie.


Sure, but MJ still needed to score 10 more ppg than Scottie for every playoff series of their careers AND lead them in passing (MJ led Bulls in assist % for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49)), while still being the best defender at his position in NBA.

No one in history has ever carried that big a load (led team in scoring by THAT much, led team in passing, and best defender at his position in NBA).





MJ didn't beat them in their primes.


^^^^^ Lies - Magic was runner-up for league MVP in 1991.. He averaged exactly 19/7/13 on 62% TS in both regular season and Finals.

Worthy was All-NBA in 1991 too - he was the Lakers' leading scorer in regular season (21 ppg on 49%) and Finals (19 ppg on 47%, while playing 41 MPG).

And the Lakers had far better personnel after Magic and Worthy:


.........................RS and Finals......................................RS and Finals

Sam Perkins........14/7 and 17/8 ...........Horace Grant.......13/8 and 15/8

Vlade Divac ........11/8 and 18/9............ John Paxson........ 9/2 and 13/2

AC Green............. 9/6 and 6/6.............. Cartwright.......... 9/5 and 9/6

Byron Scott......... 15/4 and 6/3............. Armstrong........... 9/3 and 2/1


Lakers had better talent, but you don't need nearly as much help when MJ is dominating the Finals like no one ever has, (the GOAT destroying top 5 all-time Magic on biggest stage).






Jordan had the better supporting team against all of them.



In 1993, Pippen, Grant, and Armstrong were the only members of supporting cast who averaged more than 20 MPG and 6 PPG:


.....................PPG.......MPG

Pippen............18.6...... 38.6
Grant.............13.2....... 35.6
Armstrong.......12.3.......30.4
Cartwright........5.6....... 19.9
S Williams........5.9........19.3
Paxson............ 4.2........17.5
R McCray......... 3.5........15.9
S King............. 5.4....... 13.9
W Perdue......... 4.7........13.9
T Tucker.......... 5.2........13.2
D Walker......... 2.6........13.1


The #4 thru #12 guys all played LESS than 20 mpg and averaged LESS than 6 ppg.

No other team in the league was this weak from the #4 thru #12 spots, which is why MJ had to score the highest percentage of team points ever (including 10 ppg more than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers), while still leading his team in passing (MJ led Bulls in assist % for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49)) and being the best defender at his position in the NBA.

No one in history has ever carried that big a load (led team in scoring by THAT much, and led team in passing, and best defender at his position in NBA).
.

[3ball]

3 seconds in the key was not a new rule, in fact it was brought to the game in 1981, along with all the other Illegal defense rules


The "armslength" language that eliminates zone inside the paint IS NEW - inside the paint, defenders must stay within "arms length" of their man, which is the OPPOSITE of a zone:


"A defensive player is not allowed inside the key area for more than three seconds unless he is guarding the player with the ball or is actively guarding any opponent. To be considered actively guarding, a defender must be within an arms length of an opponent. If an offensive player moves through the key, the defender must be within an arms length, and also move along with the offensive player. He can not just stand there and put his arms out to get a new three second count."


"Arms length" is the strictest defense possible other than making the players stay shoulder-to-shoulder... Nonetheless, this strict rule (opposite of a zone) is what governs the most important area of the floor: the paint.

In addition to banning paint-camping and zone inside the paint, the 2005 rules also banned hand-checking, which everyone views as more prohibitive than a zone - once Jordan found out about the hand-check ban, he said he'd score 100, and everyone agreed.






Illegal defense was fully removed in 2001


Right, and full zone was allowed.......

until 2005.... that's when the new defensive 3 seconds rule was introduced, which included the aforementioned "armslength" provision.

In addition to the zone-banning, "arms length" provision, the 2005 rules also banned hand-checking, which everyone views as more prohibitive than a zone - once Jordan found out about the hand-check ban, he said he'd score 100, and everyone agreed.
.

[Im Still Ballin]

Defensive 3 seconds is not a new rule

3ball

we've been over this

YES, it is worded differently, BUT it was only one section of a huge rule guidelines known as Illegal defense guidelines

[Im Still Ballin]

Join me in my new thread I am going to make about the topic.

[3ball]

Defensive 3 seconds is not a new rule


The "armslength" language that eliminates zone inside the paint IS NEW - inside the paint, defenders must stay within "arms length" of their man, which is the OPPOSITE of a zone:


"A defensive player is not allowed inside the key area for more than three seconds unless he is guarding the player with the ball or is actively guarding any opponent. To be considered actively guarding, a defender must be within an arms length of an opponent. If an offensive player moves through the key, the defender must be within an arms length, and also move along with the offensive player. He can not just stand there and put his arms out to get a new three second count."


"Arms length" is the strictest defense possible other than making the players stay shoulder-to-shoulder... Nonetheless, this strict rule (opposite of a zone) is what governs the most important area of the floor: the paint.

In addition to banning paint-camping and zone inside the paint, the 2005 rules also banned hand-checking, which everyone views as more prohibitive than a zone - once Jordan found out about the hand-check ban, he said he'd score 100, and everyone agreed.

[3ball]

Defensive 3 seconds is not a new rule


Today's defensive 3 seconds rule differs from past rules because today's rule has an "armslength" provision, which eliminates paint-camping or zone inside the paint - defenders must stay within "arms length" of their man while inside the paint, which is the OPPOSITE of a zone:


"A defensive player is not allowed inside the key area for more than three seconds unless he is guarding the player with the ball or is actively guarding any opponent. To be considered actively guarding, a defender must be within an arms length of an opponent. If an offensive player moves through the key, the defender must be within an arms length, and also move along with the offensive player. He can not just stand there and put his arms out to get a new three second count."

http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html


"Arms length" is the strictest defense possible other than making the players stay shoulder-to-shoulder... Nonetheless, this strict rule (opposite of a zone) is what governs the most important area of the floor: the paint.

The aforementioned "armslength" provision is a lot different than the old 3 seconds rule, which allowed paint-camping:



2b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area.

http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html


If a defender's man is within 3 feet of either side of the paint, he can stay in the paint "with no time limitation"... That's legal paint-camping, which is a stark contrast to today's "armslength"/no zone/hug-your-man requirement.