Kobe is 2nd GOAT because of the ability to maximize his championship window

[JohnMax]

Kobe
2peat
3peat
4 finals in 5 years
3 finals in 3 years

Duncan
no repeat
2 finals in 2 years

Shaq without Kobe
1 ring
2 finals in 11 years


http://i.imgur.com/79c7dOg.png

[ShawkFactory]

The second GOAT spot is between more than Kobe, Duncan, and Shaq. In fact, none of them have much of a case for that spot

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe is the 2nd GOAT and I've declared this for a while now. OP is spot on.

He's got the whole package. Most first team ALL-NBA and ALL-DEFENSE selections of all time. 5 titles. Top 5 in MVP voting for 12 seasons. Greatest 17th season of all time. Only guard to play 20 seasons. Beat more 50+ win teams in the playoffs than anyone in history. 3rd in scoring in the regular season and the playoffs all time. Only player in NBA history with three consecutive seasons of 600+ points in the playoffs.

Etc. etc. etc. etc. I could go forever. That was literally off the top of my head.

2nd best all time.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe is the 2nd GOAT and I've declared this for a while now. OP is spot on.

He's got the whole package. Most first team ALL-NBA and ALL-DEFENSE selections of all time. 5 titles. Top 5 in MVP voting for 12 seasons. Greatest 17th season of all time. Only guard to play 20 seasons. Beat more 50+ win teams in the playoffs than anyone in history. 3rd in scoring in the regular season and the playoffs all time. Only player in NBA history with three consecutive seasons of 600+ points in the playoffs.

Etc. etc. etc. etc. I could go forever. That was literally off the top of my head.

2nd best all time.
KAJ:

-6 rings
-6 MVPs
-All-time leading scorer
-2nd leading postseason scorer
- 19x All-star
-15x All-NBA
- 11x All-defense
- ROY

Played 4 years of absolutely dominant ball in college too. Who knows what this would look like had he came in the league out of high school like Kobe.

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe
2peat
3peat
4 finals in 5 years
3 finals in 3 years

Duncan
no repeat
2 finals in 2 years

Shaq without Kobe
1 ring
2 finals in 11 years


http://i.imgur.com/79c7dOg.png

Kobe without Shaq or Gasol:

6 seasons. Playoffs twice. Both first round exits.

2nd best? No. Consensus = 12th is about right.

[stalkerforlife]

KAJ:

-6 rings
-6 MVPs
-All-time leading scorer
-2nd leading postseason scorer
- 19x All-star
-15x All-NBA
- 11x All-defense
- ROY

Played 4 years of absolutely dominant ball in college too. Who knows what this would look like had he came in the league out of high school like Kobe.

He's got a case, too.

I rank Kobe over Kareem because Kobe went to three straight finals and won back to back titles without a fellow top 50 player of all time.

Kareem always had a top 15 GOAT by his side.

[ShawkFactory]

He's got a case, too.

I rank Kobe over Kareem because Kobe went to three straight finals and won back to back titles without a fellow top 50 player of all time.

Kareem always had a top 15 GOAT by his side.
Also played some GOAT teams. Kobe did not.

[34-24 Footwork]

Kobe maximized the talent around him. When had good-great teams, he always put players in position to do what they do best (think Fisher 15ft elbow jumper/right low block post up for Gasol)

He's won on TWO SEPERATE TEAMS with TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT casts of players. Not sure why he doesn't get credit for making teammates better, either.

[34-24 Footwork]

Also played some GOAT teams. Kobe did not.

2008 was one of the greatest teams ever. 2010 Celtics were great, as well.

Kings, Spurs, Jailblazers also get honorable mentions.

[feyki]

These subjective arguements technically means nothing . There's One thing you can arguement players to put them any status , definitely individual impact .

[stalkerforlife]

Also played some GOAT teams. Kobe did not.

Kobe played in the greatest conference in NBA history and beat more 50+ win teams in the playoffs than any player in NBA history.

[TomCat]

5 championships out of 20 years = 25%

2 championships out of 12 years = 16%

i thought 2/7 is worse

[SouBeachTalents]

Why do Kobe's championships with Shaq get included but not Shaq's with Kobe when Shaq was winning MVP/FMVP & generally considered the best player in the world?

[bigkingsfan]

12th because he didn't maximize his FMVP trophy.

[34-24 Footwork]

Why do Kobe's championships with Shaq get included but not Shaq's with Kobe when Shaq was winning MVP/FMVP & generally considered the best player in the world?

Lol @ Shaq being the "best" player in the world. Keep bringing up the finals even though the Spurs, Kings and Blazers were better than any of the shitty teams in eastern conference in the last 20 years outside of 04 Pistons and 08 Celtics.

[stalkerforlife]

Why do Kobe's championships with Shaq get included but not Shaq's with Kobe when Shaq was winning MVP/FMVP & generally considered the best player in the world?

:wtf:

[ShawkFactory]

2008 was one of the greatest teams ever. 2010 Celtics were great, as well.

Kings, Spurs, Jailblazers also get honorable mentions.
That doesn't matter at all. They didn't win. Wasn't even that competitive of a series.

2010 Celtics were not great. Garnett, Allen, and Pierce were 33, 34, and 32, respectively.

Very good team, not great like some of those 80s teams the Lakers beat. They only won 50 games.

The teams he beat with Shaq aren't relevant here.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe played in the greatest conference in NBA history and beat more 50+ win teams in the playoffs than any player in NBA history.
When was that?

[34-24 Footwork]

Getting to the finals 7 times and putting up crazy numbers in the process is equivalent to about 14 rings if he was in the eastern conference :lol

Lettuce be real.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol @ Shaq being the "best" player in the world. Keep bringing up the finals even though the Spurs, Kings and Blazers were better than any of the shitty teams in eastern conference in the last 20 years outside of 04 Pistons and 08 Celtics.

So Shaq wasn't the best player in the world from 2000-02?

[34-24 Footwork]

So Shaq wasn't the best player in the world from 2000-02?

Most dominant? Yes

Best? No.

It's fairly simple. But I know you're a Lebron guy. So please post stats attempting t derail the conversation and discredit Kobe :cheers:

[navy]

Getting to the finals 7 times and putting up crazy numbers in the process is equivalent to about 14 rings if he was in the eastern conference :lol

Lettuce be real.
What's Kobe's numbers vs the East?

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe got one more than Shaq. As soon as that happened he leap frogged Shaq on the all time list. Kareem is a different story. He gets the nod over Kobe. Kobe is top 5 material. Kareem is top 2 material.

[pauk]

It was HIS only 2 times... those other 3 times were not HIS, it was Shaqs... obviously he had something to do with it, but Pippen or Havlicek had something to do with theirs the same way... if Kobe brought all those championships (being the most accountable, like with his last 2) i would have him top 3 all-time, if he was that would probably mean more mvps than 1 aswell... but that isnt the case...

Kobe is a top 10 player, thats as far as it goes and there is NOTHING wrong with that.... thats great...

[stalkerforlife]

It was HIS only 2 times... those other 3 times were not HIS, it was Shaqs...

You obviously failed to watch the real finals in the west.

And then it went over your head that winning is all that matters...and Bran would've won in 2011 had he not thrown a passive aggressive tantrum after realizing Wade was simply going to win the FMVP.

Bran cares more about how he's perceived than winning championships...and that makes him an insecure beta loser.

[34-24 Footwork]

What's Kobe's numbers vs the East?

5/7

Next question.

[Marchesk]

To be considered top 5 all-time, you must have more MVPs than this guy:

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/usp_nba__preseason-utah_jazz_at_phoenix_suns_38180789.jpg

[34-24 Footwork]

It was HIS only 2 times... those other 3 times were not HIS, it was Shaqs... obviously he had something to do with it, but Pippen or Havlicek had something to do with theirs the same way...

And yet the fact still remains....after all the of the colluding, cherry picking fast breaks, jumping from team to team...your hero only has two rings...and only one of them were convincing.

[TomCat]

What's Kobe's numbers vs the East?

5/7

[feyki]

It was HIS only 2 times... those other 3 times were not HIS, it was Shaqs... obviously he had something to do with it, but Pippen or Havlicek had something to do with theirs the same way... if Kobe brought all those championships (being the most accountable, like with his last 2) i would have him top 3 all-time, if he was that would probably mean more mvps than 1 aswell... but that isnt the case...


Hondo led 3 championship teams in 68,69 and 74 .

[Nilocon165]

Where did you copy and paste this from?

[AirBonner]

The 2nd goat can't also be the goat brick layer. /thread.

[ImKobe]

led in winshares in the most dominant PO team all-time, better production than Shaq through WC competition (all teams better than the 76ers)

7 Finals 5 titles (04 Kobe was injured and was dealing with court case)
top 3 player in the league in his 17th season before rupturing his achilles
all the All-NBA 1st teams and defensive 1st teams
could have surpassed Kareem in points if not for 3 straight injuries that would have been career-ending for anyone else

voted GOAT Laker by Shaq, West and Magic...

anyone saying he isn't at least top 5 is trolling...He would have tied Jordan for 6 rings had Pau been in LA all season and Bynum/Ariza hadn't been injured in 08.

[red1]

Hmm you raise some interesting points...


No.

12th is fine thank you very much

[IllegalD]

Hmm you raise some interesting points...


No.

12th is fine thank you very much

Still higher than any Craptor player will ever rank. :D

[Bankaii]

That idiot really said Shaq wasn't the best player in the league from 2000-02.
You can't make this up:roll: