[Serious] If Lebron Loses In The Finals Again....

[PsychoBe]

this topic is marked as serious and any and all troll posts will be deleted immediately. mods pay attention!

if lebron james loses in the nba finals again, how will you view him and his career? 6 consecutive finals with 4 straight losses? does he go up or down on your all-time list? how can you defend a player with 4 straight losses in the finals?

[Thunderfan86]

He will be viewed the same in my eyes. No shame in losing in the Finals a few times. It happens to guys like him all the time.

[JT123]

Don't tell the mods how to do their jobs fggt. You are a nobody around here.
I suggest this troll thread be deleted immediately. If OP actually desired a serious discussion this is the last forum he would be posting on. :sleeping

[Cocaine80s]

2007 he was just outmatched
Last year injuries ****ed him over, everyone knows this
This year Warriors are too ****ing stacked, if Cavs win Lebron is above Jordan imo

[COnDEMnED]

Ranked below West somewhere. Hovering top 15ish.

[Spaulding]

this topic is marked as serious and any and all troll posts will be deleted immediately. mods pay attention!

if lebron james loses in the nba finals again, how will you view him and his career? 6 consecutive finals with 4 straight losses? does he go up or down on your all-time list? how can you defend a player with 4 straight losses in the finals?

If he loses this year in finals it will be his 3rd straight loss. 14, 15, 16.

Long as he doesn't lose in 5 games or under it won't hurt his legacy. It's quite clear the Warriors and Spurs are the best teams in the NBA.

[Lebron23]

He's going to win this time if the Big Three are all healthy.

[SouBeachTalents]

As long as he plays well and up to his usual standards, I'm not going to give a player too much criticism for losing to a team that's the defending champs and just broke the all time NBA win record

[Lebron23]

Ranked below West somewhere. Hovering top 15ish.

LeBron > 12thbe. Kobe is the worst individual finals performer among the top 15 players of all time.

[navy]

Heat won in 2013

[nba_55]

Serious question to you, in your opinion, would it better be for him to lose before the finals? If he did lose before that, he wouldn't have 5 losses in the finals and 3 consecutive losses in the finals.

[Thunderfan86]

As long as he plays well and up to his usual standards, I'm not going to give a player too much criticism for losing to a team that's the defending champs and just broke the all time NBA win record
Link or it didn't happen

[SouBeachTalents]

Link or it didn't happen

Lol, well I'm assuming they win their final game

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem >>>> Lebron.

Olajuwon had the smarts to get his ass kicked in the FIRST ROUND in HALF of his playoff career.

[choppermagic]

Given that the Warriors and the Spurs are both better teams, i say, about the same.

Unless he pulls another disappearing act and shrinks from the spotlight again. Then worse.

[Prime_Shaq]

Getting to the Finals and losing doesn't diminish one's all-time ranking. People will remember the number of times you win, not the attempts.

[Bankaii]

Depends... If Lebron plays and shoots well and loses to the GOAT team, it won't diminish him.

If he pulls a 2007/2011 though it'll definitely hurt him.

[Lebron23]

Getting to the Finals and losing doesn't diminish one's all-time ranking. People will remember the number of times you win, not the attempts.


Best posts so far in this thread. In fairness to LeBron he looks much better this season compared to last season. His 3 points percentage also improve in the last 2 month.

[sd3035]

Lebald is going to shoot like 80% these playoffs

[pauk]

how can you defend a player with 4 straight losses in the finals?

Extremly easy, you just use logic... you just consider the fact that it is a team game and the best team has always won and will always forever win the championship, NOT the best player (unless he is in the best team)... then you also consider what the player had to work with around him compared to the opposing team in the Finals (which probably will be Warriors atm)... if you do this then you might even instead commend the player, considering how far the player can carry a specific supporting cast, against all odds....


if lebron james loses in the nba finals again, how will you view him and his career? 6 consecutive finals with 4 straight losses? does he go up or down on your all-time list?

Im not sure you are serious enough... going deeper into the playoffs always giving your team a chance at the championship is not a penalty, no matter how stressful it is for you lebron cynics to see him always have a shot at the championship (with whatever bad supporting cast) its unfortunately not a penalty... more like the opposite speaking volumes about his impact... im sorry... its not like it would be any more prestigious for him to lose anytime earlier than Finals or even miss the playoffs.... for him to be ranked lower some of his accolades will have to be erased and that doesnt happen with a playoff series loss.... very sorry... you will have to just dig down and brace yourself seeing Lebron have yet another Eastern Conference Championship / Finals appearance / Championship shot....

[bobopenguin]

bron is just a pedestrian.

[Asukal]

He will be seen as the greatest choker ever. You can't just ignore 2/7. :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

He will be seen as the greatest choker ever. You can't just ignore 2/7. :oldlol:

The Logo...

Mr. "1/9" West, right?

Better to be blown out in the first round in most of a career. Just ask the King of the First Round Exit himself...Hakeem.

[pauk]

PsychoBe/Kobe stans, do you understand how stupid that Finals loss logic is yet?

If not, here, since you are a Kobe fan, lets use him as the example, you may understand.... where is he at the moment? Will he be in the playoffs? He will be missing the playoffs again right? Does that not count? Why not? He played this year didnt he, very hard... he played ALL those years he missed the playoffs or losed earlier than Finals, very very hard... does that not count as any loss?

You know what would happen if Kobe got magically pitted against those Finals teams those years he missed the playoffs or didnt reach the Finals? He would guaranteed losed all of them... and he would have 15 Finals losses....

Does that penalise his career? NO... it doesnt, it doesnt change squat, or actually, if anything it only adds to his resume considering with so many Finals appearances he showed greater team impact... which includes more memories / greater Kobe playoff performances aswell... you as a Kobe fan wouldnt want that?

[Straight_Ballin]

Lebron is on the most expensive team in the leauge. Bron put the team together for the most part. If everyone is healthy and he still loses, he's the biggest joke to ever wear a basketball jersey.

If you are on a team good enough to get you to the finals and still lose, then it's on you.

[pauk]

He will be seen as the greatest choker ever. You can't just ignore 2/7. :oldlol:

So he is not a bigger choker if he was 2/2... which means he choked earlier than Finals and/or even missed playoffs with the exact team... interesting...

[Straight_Ballin]

So he is not a bigger choker if he was 2/2... which means he choked earlier than Finals and/or even missed playoffs with the exact team... interesting...

Can't blame someone if they are 2/2 and didn't have a team good enough to win their conference in other years.

Losing in playoffs or conference isnt choking. It's not having a good enough team.

But if you are on a team so damn good that you win the entire conference only to lose in the finals, you choked or didn't do enough.

Jordan ensured that everytime he was on a team good enough to get to the finals, that he would do enough to win.

Lebron will show is that everytime he was on a team good enough to get to the finals, (other than 2 occasions on a stacked team formed through collusion) that he didn't do enough.

That's the difference between the GOAT and someone who wants to be GOAT despite not doing enough.

[Lebron23]

So he is not a bigger choker if he was 2/2... which means he choked earlier than Finals and/or even missed playoffs with the exact team... interesting...


Just ignore them. Reading their posts it looks like they never play basketball, and understand the game.

[Straight_Ballin]

I edited my post so that you can clearly understand what Bron is and what he is not.

[pauk]

Lebron is on the most expensive team in the leauge. Bron put the team together for the most part. If everyone is healthy and he still loses, he's the biggest joke to ever wear a basketball jersey.

If you are on a team good enough to get you to the finals and still lose, then it's on you.

Lebron doesnt meet the best team/teams until its the Finals and those teams he meets there have most of the time been much better... East has been weaker & still is... for example if he was in the West i dont see the Cavs winning semifinals/conference finals against Spurs/Warriors... hence its no Finals appearance for Lebron... but it doesnt count as any loss because its not Finals loss right? Any other playoff series loss doesnt count right? Its more prestigious all of the sudden right? :rolleyes: the series he would lose there is the series he would lose only in the Finals instead... There is no difference....

[SouBeachTalents]

Can't blame someone if they are 2/2 and didn't have a team good enough to win their conference in other years.

Losing in playoffs or conference isnt choking. It's not having a good enough team.

But if you are on a team so damn good that you win the entire conference only to lose in the finals, you choked or didn't do enough.

Jordan ensured that everytime he was on a team good enough to get to the finals, that he would do enough to win.

Lebron will show is that everytime he was on a team good enough to get to the finals, (other than 2 occasions on a stacked team formed through collusion) that he didn't do enough.

That's the difference between the GOAT and someone who wants to be GOAT despite not doing enough.

So if the Warriors lose in the first round that means they weren't good enough to make the Finals? And that won't affect Curry negatively?

[Lebron23]

So if the Warriors lose in the first round that means they weren't good enough to make the Finals? And that won't affect Curry negatively?


Straight_Ballin is an idiot. Just ignore all of his posts.

[Lebron23]

Lebron doesnt meet the best team/teams until its the Finals and those teams he meets there have most of the time been much better... East has been weaker & still is... for example if he was in the West i dont see the Cavs winning semifinals/conference finals against Spurs/Warriors... hence its no Finals appearance for Lebron... but it doesnt count as any loss because its not Finals loss right? Any other playoff series loss doesnt count right? Its more prestigious all of the sudden right? :rolleyes: the series he would lose there is the series he would lose only in the Finals instead... There is no difference....


Just ignore him Pauk. You are smarter than the garbage poster known as Straight_Ballin.

[raprap]

LeBrons legacy is set in stone and could only get better at this point of his career.

[Straight_Ballin]

Lebron doesnt meet the best team/teams until its the Finals and those teams he meets there have most of the time been much better... East has been weaker & still is... for example if he was in the West i dont see the Cavs winning semifinals/conference finals against Spurs/Warriors... hence its no Finals appearance for Lebron... but it doesnt count as any loss because its not Finals loss right? Any other playoff series loss doesnt count right? Its more prestigious all of the sudden right? :rolleyes: the series he would lose there is the series he would lose only in the Finals instead... There is no difference....

I'm all for removing this east vs west shit playoff structure shit but until that happens the only way you can judge a players ability to win it all is how he performs on the biggest stage. He obviously had a team good enough to get him to the biggest stage so your exucuse is "well, the other team was still better". MJ played in the east and never had a problem beating the team that emerged as the champ of the west.

[Lebron23]

LeBrons legacy is set in stone and could only get better at this point of his career.


This. You are a good poster. And I like your avatar.

[Straight_Ballin]

So if the Warriors lose in the first round that means they weren't good enough to make the Finals? And that won't affect Curry negatively?

A 72-10 reg team isn't losing in the first round.....

[Lebron23]

Straight_Ballin
This message is hidden because Straight_Ballin is on your ignore list.

Hell Yeah

[SouBeachTalents]

A 72-10 reg team isn't losing in the first round.....

So what if they do? Or at least lose before the Finals, would you consider them not good enough to make the Finals?

[ShawkFactory]

Can't blame someone if they are 2/2 and didn't have a team good enough to win their conference in other years.

Losing in playoffs or conference isnt choking. It's not having a good enough team.

But if you are on a team so damn good that you win the entire conference only to lose in the finals, you choked or didn't do enough.

Jordan ensured that everytime he was on a team good enough to get to the finals, that he would do enough to win.

Lebron will show is that everytime he was on a team good enough to get to the finals, (other than 2 occasions on a stacked team formed through collusion) that he didn't do enough.

That's the difference between the GOAT and someone who wants to be GOAT despite not doing enough.
Isn't the east constantly shat on for being a joke?

Is being "so damn good that you win the entire conference" really matter coming out of the east?

[Straight_Ballin]

Lebron supporters are a funny bunch.

If he makes it to the finals and wins he's praised for winning.
If he makes it to the finals and loses he's praised for making it to the finals and gets a free pass for losing becuse he lost to a "west team".

No sense of what it means being a winner and being a loser. :facepalm

[pauk]

Can't blame someone if they are 2/2 and didn't have a team good enough to win their conference in other years.

Losing in playoffs or conference isnt choking. It's not having a good enough team.

Thats correct... but... uh uh uh :no: dont contradict yourself/your logic now.... Your logic doesnt imply that when it comes to Finals, remember?



But if you are on a team so damn good that you win the entire conference only to lose in the finals, you choked or didn't do enough.

Wait a minute.... so if you losed in the previous series your logic is functional, meaning you use context, you actually consider what the player had to work with around him as compared to the opposing team (which clearly were better & won) but that cant possibly happen a series later.... where its all on the player, he choked even, didnt do enough, guaranteed...

Please, i refuse to believe you are serious, what you are saying doesnt make sense at all...


Jordan ensured that everytime he was on a team good enough to get to the finals, that he would do enough to win.

Exactly... you can blame the player only when he underperforms (which for Lebron is only in 2011)... all you can ask from a player is to play up to his standards, everything else is out of his control... how well his teammates pass, dribble, steal, block, slash, run, hustle, shoot etc. is out of your hands (this is not NBA 2K16 where you can control everybody)....

As far as Jordan goes, he was much more fortunate supporting cast wise compared to Lebron.... his team in the Finals was always the best & supposed to win, GUARANTEED win, it wasnt even interesting to watch after a while, trust me, i am a 90s child, ive seen it all, you could bet your life on them winning... its not simply because of Jordan, but because of the team he had as opposed to everybody else... we cant compare the situations... he never had a Finals odds like say Lebron in 2007 or 2015 etc.... would Jordan do "enough to win" as a 21 year old with that 2007 Cavs supporting cast? You better not say yes.....



Lebron will show is that everytime he was on a team good enough to get to the finals, (other than 2 occasions on a stacked team formed through collusion) that he didn't do enough.

Lebron didnt do enough only 1 time... 2011, he was way to unselfish for his own good (chemistry/role/gamestyle problems his first year with Miami, he averaged only 14 FGA and 2 FTA, Miami didnt start to win / Lebron didnt start to unleash the "do enough" until Wade gave him the greenlight next season)



That's the difference between the GOAT and someone who wants to be GOAT despite not doing enough.

No, that is the difference between somebody who played with much better supporting casts throughout his years and someone who didnt.... yes Jordan is better, yes Jordan is the GOAT... but the accolades didnt come by way of similar surroundings as Lebron.... and Jordan would NOT been deemed anything lesser than he is if he "didnt do enough" a bit more / if he was 6 of 15 in the Finals.... infact, it would actually mean he did MORE of the "doing enough"....


PS: I dont give a **** about Lebron, i give a **** about STUPID LOGIC... that is my problem, i cant stand it... stupid logic in this case which belittles NBA history & all players ever, penalising a player for trying to win no matter what against any odds.... just because you dislike Lebron....

[Lebronxrings]

Lebron23 and Pauk: The ether brothers.. :pimp:

[Straight_Ballin]

See post #41.

Bron supporters stay losing and use corny logic to justify their stance. If Pauk is not writing a 2000 word essay about a lion, he's claiming that a guy who doesn't know how to lose in the finals (MJ) would lose in the finals under another set of circumstances even though he proved 6 times that if he's on a team good enough to get to the finals, that he wins it all.

Yawn.....

[SouBeachTalents]

See post #41.

Bron supporters stay losing and use corny logic to justify their stance. If Pauk is not writing a 2000 word essay about a lion, he's claiming that a guy who doesn't know how to lose in the finals (MJ) would lose in the finals under another set of circumstances.

Yawn.....

Lol, Jordan would definitely lose in the Finals in 2014. Excellent chance he loses in '07 & '15 as well

[Straight_Ballin]

Lol, Jordan would definitely lose in the Finals in 2014. Excellent chance he loses in '07 & '15 as well

MJ never lost in the finals.

You can't make a claim that a guy who doesn't know how to lose in the finals on 6 different occasions with 6 FMVP's is all of a sudden going to lose after making it all the way to the finals due to a good enough supporting cast to get him there.

There's zero evidence to back such a claim that he loses in 07, 14, or 15.

[3ball]

Not much Lebron could've done in 2007 2007


Many guys played better against the same Spurs team:



Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%

Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Bonzi vs. Spurs in 2006 1st Rd: 23/12 on 61%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%



The reason for Lebron's worse efficiency was JUMPSHOOTING EFFICIENCY:


.................................Jumpshot Efficiency vs. Spurs in 2006-2008 Playoffs


....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of offense

Bonzi 2006 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1719/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ..............50.0........................... 62.5............................... 32.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3
Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2



Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - the so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just can't shoot.

Even 9 years later in 2016, his efficiency is among the worst in NBA outside the paint... Lebron simply CAN'T SHOOT.. When a player can't shoot, there are tons of guys that can play better than him.






Lebron had no chance in 2007


Not true - despite Lebron's 22 ppg on 35%, all 4 games were single-digit affairs, including 1-possession nail-biters in Games 3 and 4.. (edit: Game 1 was 11 pt game)

The Cavs had a great defense, but just needed a consistent volume scorer to win.





Lebron had no chance in 2014


Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games against Kawhi (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.

Better defense on Kawhi would've kept the games closer, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.





Lebron had no chance in 2015


Lebron's poor defense on Kawhi in 2014 Finals was not a fluke because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player (Iggy) be > Curry.

Every other team held Kawhi and Iggy down EXCEPT Lebron's teams (Heat and Cavs).. Obviously, if Lebron holds Iggy to 7 ppg instead of 17 ppg AND shoots better than 39% against the Warriors' single-coverage, the Cavs win easily.
.

[Straight_Ballin]

Don't do em like that 3ball! :lol

[G-train]

Lebron's level of team success is quite rare.

Also Chamberlain and Olajuwon are quite high in peoples overall rankings, with 2 titles.

[stalkerforlife]

Making the finals in a historically weak conference with a colluded super team is a given.

Losing in the finals so often only validates how pathetic the east and the collusion efforts are.

He will never enter my top 15.

[warriorfan]

Many guys played better against the same Spurs team:



Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%

Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Bonzi vs. Spurs in 2006 1st Rd: 23/12 on 61%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%



The reason for Lebron's worse efficiency was JUMPSHOOTING EFFICIENCY:


.................................Jumpshot Efficiency vs. Spurs in 2006-2008 Playoffs


....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of offense

Bonzi 2006 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1719/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ..............50.0........................... 62.5............................... 32.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3
Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2



Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - the so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just can't shoot.

Even 9 years later in 2016, his efficiency is among the worst in NBA outside the paint... Lebron simply CAN'T SHOOT.. When a player can't shoot, there are tons of guys that can play better than him.




Not true - despite Lebron's 22 ppg on 35%, all 4 games were single-digit affairs, including 1-possession nail-biters in Games 3 and 4.. (edit: Game 1 was 11 pt game)

The Cavs had a great defense, but just needed a consistent volume scorer to win.



Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games against Kawhi (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.

Better defense on Kawhi would've kept the games closer, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.



Lebron's poor defense on Kawhi in 2014 Finals was not a fluke because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player (Iggy) be > Curry.

Every other team held Kawhi and Iggy down EXCEPT Lebron's teams (Heat and Cavs).. Obviously, if Lebron holds Iggy to 7 ppg instead of 17 ppg AND shoots better than 39% against the Warriors' single-coverage, the Cavs win easily.
.

http://45.media.tumblr.com/2c20d5e4422cd9b0fe67fdba42dde93d/tumblr_nequ00GLR51u3o7azo1_400.gif

[stalkerforlife]

Many guys played better against the same Spurs team:



Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%

Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Bonzi vs. Spurs in 2006 1st Rd: 23/12 on 61%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%



The reason for Lebron's worse efficiency was JUMPSHOOTING EFFICIENCY:


.................................Jumpshot Efficiency vs. Spurs in 2006-2008 Playoffs


....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of offense

Bonzi 2006 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1719/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ..............50.0........................... 62.5............................... 32.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3
Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2



Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - the so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just can't shoot.

Even 9 years later in 2016, his efficiency is among the worst in NBA outside the paint... Lebron simply CAN'T SHOOT.. When a player can't shoot, there are tons of guys that can play better than him.




Not true - despite Lebron's 22 ppg on 35%, all 4 games were single-digit affairs, including 1-possession nail-biters in Games 3 and 4.. (edit: Game 1 was 11 pt game)

The Cavs had a great defense, but just needed a consistent volume scorer to win.



Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games against Kawhi (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.

Better defense on Kawhi would've kept the games closer, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.



Lebron's poor defense on Kawhi in 2014 Finals was not a fluke because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player (Iggy) be > Curry.

Every other team held Kawhi and Iggy down EXCEPT Lebron's teams (Heat and Cavs).. Obviously, if Lebron holds Iggy to 7 ppg instead of 17 ppg AND shoots better than 39% against the Warriors' single-coverage, the Cavs win easily.
.

http://45.media.tumblr.com/2c20d5e4422cd9b0fe67fdba42dde93d/tumblr_nequ00GLR51u3o7azo1_400.gif

[G-train]

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.



No, not obviously.

[TommyGriffin]

Many guys played better against the same Spurs team:



Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%

Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Bonzi vs. Spurs in 2006 1st Rd: 23/12 on 61%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%



The reason for Lebron's worse efficiency was JUMPSHOOTING EFFICIENCY:


.................................Jumpshot Efficiency vs. Spurs in 2006-2008 Playoffs


....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of offense

Bonzi 2006 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1719/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ..............50.0........................... 62.5............................... 32.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/1717/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2546/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3
Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2



Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - the so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just can't shoot.

Even 9 years later in 2016, his efficiency is among the worst in NBA outside the paint... Lebron simply CAN'T SHOOT.. When a player can't shoot, there are tons of guys that can play better than him.




Not true - despite Lebron's 22 ppg on 35%, all 4 games were single-digit affairs, including 1-possession nail-biters in Games 3 and 4.. (edit: Game 1 was 11 pt game)

The Cavs had a great defense, but just needed a consistent volume scorer to win.



Lebron's defense was very good the first 2 games against Kawhi (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then Lebron gave up in Game 3, because he's weak with no perseverance - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.

Better defense on Kawhi would've kept the games closer, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.



Lebron's poor defense on Kawhi in 2014 Finals was not a fluke because he did the same thing in 2015, only worse - he let a 7 ppg role player (Iggy) be > Curry.

Every other team held Kawhi and Iggy down EXCEPT Lebron's teams (Heat and Cavs).. Obviously, if Lebron holds Iggy to 7 ppg instead of 17 ppg AND shoots better than 39% against the Warriors' single-coverage, the Cavs win easily.
.
http://45.media.tumblr.com/2c20d5e4422cd9b0fe67fdba42dde93d/tumblr_nequ00GLR51u3o7azo1_400.gif

[bigkingsfan]

Bonzi > Jordan
confirmed

http://45.media.tumblr.com/2c20d5e4422cd9b0fe67fdba42dde93d/tumblr_nequ00GLR51u3o7azo1_400.gif

[k0kakw0rld]

He is top 3 already... Another final appearance pushes him towards the 2nd place. Add that 4 MVPs, 2 All star MVPs, 2 FMVPs I mean I don't know what else to say.

[stalkerforlife]

He is top 3 already... Another final appearance pushes him towards the 2nd place. Add that 4 MVPs, 2 All star MVPs, 2 FMVPs I mean I don't know what else to say.

You stupid son of a bitch. :lol

[Straight_Ballin]

He is top 3 already... Another final appearance pushes him towards the 2nd place. Add that 4 MVPs, 2 All star MVPs, 2 FMVPs I mean I don't know what else to say.

:facepalm

:lol

[HighFlyer23]

MJ never lost in the Finals

6/6 with 6 Finals MVPs, numerous Finals records, and two threepeats

GOAT