Now that the dust has settled... Magic Johnson or Kobe Bryant

[AngelEyes]

There seems to be a near consensus that Kobe and Magic are the two greatest Lakers or at least have had the two greatest Lakers careers since Kareem spent several prime seasons in Milwaukee and Shaq was only in LA for 8 years. Who had the greatest Lakers career Magic or Kobe? And who is most identifiable with the team? I still think Magic has the slight edge because of how the league grew exponentially when he came around and the legendary rivalry with Bird. But Kobe probably isn't far behind and you could make a strong case for him based on his longevity and skills.

[TomCat]

Definitely Kobe.

20 years, going out with 60, 5 championships, drafted out of high school, seeing a kid turn to a man.

Even Magic, shaq, and Kareem says Kobe is the greatest laker.

[AlphaWolf24]

Nothing will ever take the place of the Showtime era or the impact of Magic vs Bird..you are right.....that era made the NBA what it is.

I believe that was the best Basketball ...or at least the best era of basketball..

but....

Individually..Kobe is the greatest Laker of alltime.
Skillwise and career / accolades...on top of 20 seasons 12 of those as the premiere player in the NBA.

Dominant Offensive player.....Dominant Defensive player ...Dominant Champion.



when Magic , Shaq and Jerry West say you are the GOAT Laker......you might believe you are the GOAT Laker

[feyki]

Magic .

[HenryGarfunkle]

Magic and it's not very close... Magic just had a way better feel for the game, and was more passionate and competitive than kobe. Magic was just a better player, a better teammate, and a better winner. Period.

[tmacattack33]

:facepalm

Magic has a decent case for top 5.

Kobe has pretty bad case for top 10.

[Cold soul]

Kobe is better individual player than Magic but Kobe can't lead and carry a team as well or inspire his teammates like Magic did he is better team player.

[Cold soul]

:facepalm

Magic has a decent case for top 5.

Kobe has pretty bad case for top 10.

Lol pretty bad case for top 10. Wow please stop trolling. Thanks!

[dazzer87]

Have to go with Magic......Just not happy that it took 50 shots to get 60 points. That was the tie breaker.

[Im Still Ballin]

:facepalm

Magic has a decent case for top 5.

Kobe has pretty bad case for top 10.
This

It was an epic performance by Kobe yesterday

But it was not surprising knowing who he is

Kobe doesn't have a top 5 case

He's a top 10 drifter

Floats between 8-12

Really depends on how you rate his lack of MVPs and FMVPs (The threepeat)

[bdreason]

Magic for me. Better all around player. Better leader. More entertaining. More intriguing personality.

[AirBonner]

So one 60 point game on average efficiency changes history? No. Magic is still far superior.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe is better individual player than Magic but Kobe can't lead and carry a team as well or inspire his teammates like Magic did he is better team player.


Going off actually NBA History......this is 100% incorrect.

Most of his teammates had their best seasons playing with Kobe...

He also led the Lakers in assists every Championship Run....all while being all NBA Defense ( something Magic did not do)....and the primary Closer of games.

[AlphaWolf24]

This

It was an epic performance by Kobe yesterday

But it was not surprising knowing who he is

Kobe doesn't have a top 5 case

He's a top 10 drifter

Floats between 8-12

Really depends on how you rate his lack of MVPs and FMVPs (The threepeat)


Kobe has a better case for top 5 then Larry Bird does.....that's a fact.

anyone who has Bird in top 5 and not Kobe.....is a basketball illiterate.

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe has a better case for top 5 then Larry Bird does.....that's a fact.

anyone who has Bird in top 5 and not Kobe.....is a basketball illiterate.
Bird has 3 MVPs
3 Rings
2 FMVPs

I'm sorry but that's a better resume than Kobe's

If not on equal footing

Bird was considered the greatest of all time at one point

He faced great Laker hall of fame cast Laker squads time and time again in the finals

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe's case for top 5 fails because of his lack of individual accomplishment

1 MVP
2 FMVPs

It was always going to be hard to shake off the 2nd fiddle notion from Shaq and the 3peat

Whereas the general consensus is now, and ESPN and SI agree, Lebron is above Kobe, has been for a couple years now

4 MVPs
2 FMVPs

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe is better individual player than Magic but Kobe can't lead and carry a team as well or inspire his teammates like Magic did he is better team player.


THIS...

Lakers won 17 games this year with Kobe leading them.. I would say Magic would have easily won more with that squad. THE Lakers had a better winning percentage when Kobe didnt play this season and that would never happen with MAGIC...

[Rake2204]

Magic for me. Better all around player. Better leader.Agreed. One of my issues with Kobe Bryant is that he seemingly made the game of basketball frequently about Kobe Bryant. He was an exceptional talent and undoubtedly one of the all-time greats, but I prefer Johnson for his own incredible skills alongside a sometimes tough-to-define ability to foster chemistry and maximize his teammates' abilities and effectiveness in any given game.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe's case for top 5 fails because of his lack of individual accomplishment

1 MVP
2 FMVPs

It was always going to be hard to shake off the 2nd fiddle notion from Shaq and the 3peat

Whereas the general consensus is now, and ESPN and SI agree, Lebron is above Kobe, has been for a couple years now

4 MVPs
2 FMVPs

Im not sure if I agree with Lebron over Kobe just yet... He will probably wind up top 6 and better than Kobe but Im not convinced of that at this point.
I would have them neck to neck at this point.. JUST ME AND MY OPINION

[tpols]

THIS...

Lakers won 17 games this year with Kobe leading them.. I would say Magic would have easily won more with that squad. THE Lakers had a better winning percentage when Kobe didnt play this season and that would never happen with MAGIC...

i have magic above kobe prime for prime, but career wise idk. Kobe did it for longer. Kobe started w/ shaq magic w/ kareem, both 5 rings. kobe had extra years in him to put icing on the cake (and do things like he did last night). Magic because of the whole aids thing kind of derailed his career.

[AlphaWolf24]

Bird has 3 MVPs
3 Rings
2 FMVPs

I'm sorry but that's a better resume than Kobe's

If not on equal footing

Bird was considered the greatest of all time at one point

He faced great Laker hall of fame cast Laker squads time and time again in the finals


Kobe has 5 Rings
2FVPs
1MVP


how is having 2 MVP's better then winning 3 more titles as a premiere player in the NBA?????

your whole criteria rests on opinions of sports writers who vote ....

Bird faced Magic's Lakers 3 times and lost twice....Kobe faced Tim Duncans Spurs 6 times and won 4!

On top of winning MORE Titles.....Scoring MORE POINTS.....More voter accolades like All NBA and All Defensive Allstar teams....

Kobe has had more Dominant performances....a much longer more consistent career....and was also considered the "greatest of alltime at one point"...whatever in the hell that means.

Kobe was simply the better player for a much longer period of time....no one would take 2 regular season MVP's over a 3peat as a NBA Superstar.

[jayfan]

It hasn't even been 24 hours since he played his final game - The dust probably hasn't settled yet.

That said... Magic.

[tpols]

how is having 2 MVP's better then winning 3 more titles as a premiere player in the NBA?????


yup.. like kobes playoff run in 01 is less of an accomplishement than a steve nash or allen iverson MVP ? gtfo.

[Im Still Ballin]

I'm sorry dude, but that's the general consensus. You seem to underrate MVPs. You understand what they are, right? You can understand if a Nash or a Rose wins them, but they are as legitimate as can be when won by established all timers like MJ/Lebron/Bird/Magic/Wilt/Russell

[AlphaWolf24]

Whereas the general consensus is now, and ESPN and SI agree, Lebron is above Kobe, has been for a couple years now

4 MVPs
2 FMVPs

ESPN didn't even have the fans vote...it was an opinion of a 23 year old ESPN twitter writer!!!!!

when the Fans did Vote.....Kobe was Voted over Bron , Shaq and Tim Duncan as the greatest player of his generation

Fact...fans have Voted on TNT , SI and Sporting News ...Kobe was the best player of his generation.

Magic , Shaq and Jerry West said Kobe is the GOAT Laker......> ESPN Twitter IT guy

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm sorry dude, but that's the general consensus. You seem to underrate MVPs. You understand what they are, right? You can understand if a Nash or a Rose wins them, but they are as legitimate as can be when won by established all timers like MJ/Lebron/Bird/Magic/Wilt/Russell


voted bye media and sports writers....how can they be ligitimate if Nash has more then Kobe and Shaq?

who won the MVP in 2007 again?...LMAO exactly

[NBASTATMAN]

i have magic above kobe prime for prime, but career wise idk. Kobe did it for longer. Kobe started w/ shaq magic w/ kareem, both 5 rings. kobe had extra years in him to put icing on the cake (and do things like he did last night). Magic because of the whole aids thing kind of derailed his career.


Magic 5 titles were in the best era of basketball.. Magic also won in college and as a rookie ... Unbelievable leader ... That is where Kobe doesn't measure up.. Both outstanding talents but one was a natural born leader..

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm sorry dude, but that's the general consensus. You seem to underrate MVPs. You understand what they are, right? You can understand if a Nash or a Rose wins them, but they are as legitimate as can be when won by established all timers like MJ/Lebron/Bird/Magic/Wilt/Russell


ESPN also said Kobe was the best player in the NBA at 22 years old!

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173769_596_800.jpg

consensus = Kobe's team all the way back 2001.....

[AlphaWolf24]

Magic 5 titles were in the best era of basketball.. Magic also won in college and as a rookie ... Unbelievable leader ... That is where Kobe doesn't measure up.. Both outstanding talents but one was a natural born leader..


great....Magic was the better leader....Kobe was the better offensive player and defensive player.....

[Im Still Ballin]

voted bye media and sports writers....how can they be ligitimate if Nash has more then Kobe and Shaq?

who won the MVP in 2007 again?...LMAO exactly
What's wrong with Dirk? Playoff upsets happen. Just ask D-Rob or the Spurs in 2011

Because Kobe was never as good as his fans thought he was, there was too much a disconnect between him as a player and his teams success... His prime of getting beaten in the first round and not making the playoffs hurts his case. He was able to lift himself out of that with the back to back titles

Shaq was notoriously lazy and routinely played 60 games a season

[NBASTATMAN]

ESPN didn't even have the fans vote...it was an opinion of a 23 year old ESPN twitter writer!!!!!

when the Fans did Vote.....Kobe was Voted over Bron , Shaq and Tim Duncan as the greatest player of his generation

Fact...fans have Voted on TNT , SI and Sporting News ...Kobe was the best player of his generation.

Magic , Shaq and Jerry West said Kobe is the GOAT Laker......> ESPN Twitter IT guy


FIRST TAKE HAD NBA EXECS VOTE ON BEST LAKER..

MAGIC WON BY A HUGE MARGIN.. CHECK OUT FIRST TAKE TODAY WITH SKIP BAYLESS AND SMITH

[Dragonyeuw]

20 years with one team, 15 as allstar/elite talent has to count for something. I dont know who owns more Laker records, I cant imagine Kobe not owning any records that arent passing or rebounding related. I love Magic, but part of me thinks picking him now would be more of a nostalgic or sentimental pick. I would go with Kobe, and I say that growing up a huge Magic fan. Cant really go wrong either way, really...

[tpols]

I'm sorry dude, but that's the general consensus. You seem to underrate MVPs. You understand what they are, right? You can understand if a Nash or a Rose wins them, but they are as legitimate as can be when won by established all timers like MJ/Lebron/Bird/Magic/Wilt/Russell

the point is a player that plays great in a whole playoff run is > a player who plays great in regular season.. doesnt matter if they arbitrarily dont win FMVP so long as their individual contributions contain superstar impact.


These are both media storyline driven awards intended to maximize viewerships by providing idiots satisfaction w/ their narratives (which has clearly worked on you), and do not really have any relevance to pure impact of players.

[Im Still Ballin]

ESPN also said Kobe was the best player in the NBA at 22 years old!

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173769_596_800.jpg

consensus = Kobe's team all the way back 2001.....
I meant greatest of all time

Bird had that talk, perhaps because he was before Jordan arrived, with either way he beat the Bulls a lot, and it was talked upon

[tpols]

Magic 5 titles were in the best era of basketball.. Magic also won in college and as a rookie ... Unbelievable leader ... That is where Kobe doesn't measure up.. Both outstanding talents but one was a natural born leader..

magic played in one of the worst conferences of all time and could basically gear up for finals while boys out east had to scratch and fight just to make it to a battle with show time .. that matters. kobe played in a much more competitive conference

[raprap]

All time? Magic

As a laker? Maybe Kobe. I wasn't born during the showtime era tho...

[AlphaWolf24]

What's wrong with Dirk? Playoff upsets happen. Just ask D-Rob or the Spurs in 2011

Because Kobe was never as good as his fans thought he was, there was too much a disconnect between him as a player and his teams success... His prime of getting beaten in the first round and not making the playoffs hurts his case. He was able to lift himself out of that with the back to back titles

Shaq was notoriously lazy and routinely played 60 games a season


exactly....you answered your own question....

he was better then the fans thought he was....and way better then his Haters...

Haters = " Kobe can't win without Shaq!"

Kobe stans - " Magic couldn't win without Kareem....Bird lost with HCA like 5 times!!!..LMAO!"

Kobe wins back 2 Back Titles!!!

Haters = "Kobe can't 3 peat!! without Shaq!!!"

Kobe stans - I give up...next







Kobe missed the playoffs and lost to the suns twice!.....he should have left LA and colluded with the Spurs!!!

[Im Still Ballin]

the point is a player that plays great in a whole playoff run is > a player who plays great in regular season.. doesnt matter if they arbitrarily dont win FMVP so long as their individual contributions contain superstar impact.


These are both media storyline driven awards intended to maximize viewerships by providing idiots satisfaction w/ their narratives (which has clearly worked on you), and do not really have any relevance to pure impact of players.
The trick is you have to individualize every MVP for who it is... It's also an award that is extremely high praise and a must have on any top 10 resume

Now that I think about it, Kobe's lack of MVPs/FMVPs didn't hold him back, so much as he didn't have them to boost his resume

[FKAri]

Kobe's the better individual player. As for all that other stuff that weighs into people's decisions like ability to lead, accolades, resume, orgy hosting skills, I don't know.

[Dragonyeuw]

Magic is such an iconic figure, but I dont know man. Kobe may be as relevant to this generation as Magic was to his. And the game is far more global now, so Kobes profile transcends borders. Thats probably a bit off topic, but Im trying to put Kobes career in perspective. Its all a little too fresh at the moment....

[AlphaWolf24]

I meant greatest of all time

Bird had that talk, perhaps because he was before Jordan arrived, with either way he beat the Bulls a lot, and it was talked upon


2 Boston Writers called him the GOAT after 86'.....then after that is was all MJ and Magic..

Bird was a Dominant player....as was Kobe.

Kobe was the better Champion and had the better career.

No way you can simply put Bird in the top 5 and not Kobe...it makes you look dumb.

[tpols]

The trick is you have to individualize every MVP for who it is... It's also an award that is extremely high praise and a must have on any top 10 resume

Now that I think about it, Kobe's lack of MVPs/FMVPs didn't hold him back, so much as he didn't have them to boost his resume

the MVP has changed its definition many times throughout history, from who votes for it to the criteria for it..

if you look at the winners from the 80s and 90s, theyre all bonafide superstars top 3 players in the game. There were no allen iversons, derrick roses, or steve nashs winning MVPs in those days because the criteria was different. Nowadays it is more storyline driven, not just.. whose the best player in the game. Kobe wouldve had both Nash's MVPs under old criteria in addition to his 08.

[Cold soul]

Going off actually NBA History......this is 100% incorrect.

Most of his teammates had their best seasons playing with Kobe...

He also led the Lakers in assists every Championship Run....all while being all NBA Defense ( something Magic did not do)....and the primary Closer of games.

Well I actually argued Shaq, Gasol, Odom had their best years playing along side Kobe, but Magic is GOAT when comes to making all his teammates better including role players to perform at higher level he leads players better than Kobe. This isn't an insult towards Kobe but Magic at this category is the best ever.

[NBASTATMAN]

great....Magic was the better leader....Kobe was the better offensive player and defensive player.....


I would say MAGic was the better offensive player in terms of team ball... Kobe better defensively when he wanted to play it... Teams didnt miss a beat when Kobe didn't play.. When Magic didn't play after 91 the Lakers lost around 15 more games..

If the Lakers lose 15 more games next season they will only win 2 games...

[Im Still Ballin]

2 Boston Writers called him the GOAT after 86'.....then after that is was all MJ and Magic..

Bird was a Dominant player....as was Kobe.

Kobe was the better Champion and had the better career.

No way you can simply put Bird in the top 5 and not Kobe...it makes you look dumb.
Personally I have Bird in the back 5 of the top 10 with the likes of Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan

Usually goes

MJ
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Wilt
Lebron
Duncan
Bird
Shaq
Kobe

Shaq and Kobe are interchangeable and Lebron Duncan and Bird are interchangeable

[Bankaii]

Magic = top 5 (top 3 to me)
Kobe = top 10 (with no case for top 5)

Magic > Kobe

[AlphaWolf24]

20 years with one team, 15 as allstar/elite talent has to count for something. I dont know who owns more Laker records, I cant imagine Kobe not owning any records that arent passing or rebounding related. I love Magic, but part of me thinks picking him now would be more of a nostalgic or sentimental pick. I would go with Kobe, and I say that growing up a huge Magic fan. Cant really go wrong either way, really...


well said.....that's how I feel

I grew up wanting to be Magic...he was my favorite player...

That era..especially LA vs Boston was epic....and real feeling were caught....

then when MJ showed up...it was " Magical"....and nothing will replace it.

Bird and Magic changed the game with their style...

but the question is...who is the greatest "Laker"....not..

who changed or impacted the game he most.....AND KOBE DID IMPACT THE GAME!!!...look at his reception this year!...and he is idolized in L.A. as is Magic

combined skill with impact and what he meant to the Lakers.....Kobe is the best Laker ever

[Kvnzhangyay]

Personally I have Bird in the back 5 of the top 10 with the likes of Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan

Usually goes

MJ
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Wilt
Lebron
Duncan
Bird
Shaq
Kobe

Shaq and Kobe are interchangeable and Lebron Duncan and Bird are interchangeable

Duncan and Shaq have no business being behind Lebron imo

[AlphaWolf24]

Personally I have Bird in the back 5 of the top 10 with the likes of Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan

Usually goes

MJ
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Wilt
Lebron
Duncan
Bird
Shaq
Kobe

Shaq and Kobe are interchangeable and Lebron Duncan and Bird are interchangeable


please explain how bolded are better then Larry Bird?...or ranked higher on your list?

[CuterThanRubio]

Magic himself says that Kobe is the greatest Laker.

How are people going to discredit Kobe for his first three titles because of Shaq, and his subsequent titles because of Pau, when ALL of Magic's titles were won alongside Kareem, a top 3 player all time?

Makes no sense to me.

As great of a passer as he is, Magic only led the league in total assists THREE times, which is very surprising.

Less than 20K points, yeah his team's success wasn't always predicated on his scoring abilities, mainly because he was surrounded by the most talented roster during the duration of an entire decade, but if we are talking head to head, Kobe has him beat by a mile.

How many games did Magic win by taking over in the last final minutes?

I can't think of any

[Smoke117]

Nothing will ever take the place of the Showtime era or the impact of Magic vs Bird..you are right.....that era made the NBA what it is.

I believe that was the best Basketball ...or at least the best era of basketball..

but....

Individually..Kobe is the greatest Laker of alltime.
Skillwise and career / accolades...on top of 20 seasons 12 of those as the premiere player in the NBA.

Dominant Offensive player.....Dominant Defensive player ...Dominant Champion.



when Magic , Shaq and Jerry West say you are the GOAT Laker......you might believe you are the GOAT Laker

You daft knucklehead...no player ever goes around saying he's the best this or that...you just don't do that. It looks arrogant...of course past lakers have said Kobe is the best...everyone who knows basketball knows its Magic, West, Kareem as the top 3 and in that order...Kobe top 12 and not even top 3 for his own franchise...lmfao.

It's not even that "kobe fam" should stay "losing", but the fact that Kobe fans in general...knowing NOTHING about ****ing basketball! lol.

[Cold soul]

please explain how bolded are better then Larry Bird?...or ranked higher on your list?

Bird career isn't as impressive as Kobe. Bird doesn't have longevity or good as accomplishments as Kobe.

[NBASTATMAN]

magic played in one of the worst conferences of all time and could basically gear up for finals while boys out east had to scratch and fight just to make it to a battle with show time .. that matters. kobe played in a much more competitive conference

THE END OF THE DAY

MAGIC PLAYED 13 YEARS AND WON 5 TITLES AND HAD 3 MVP'S 3 FINALS MVP'S

Kobe played 20 seasons and WON 5 TITLES AND HAD 1 MVP AND 2 FINALS MVP'S

Magic won more MVP's and was the LEADER OF ALL THOSE TEAMS... Magic also won in college as the LEADER... IMO MAGIC WAS BETTER


EXECUTIVES WERE POLLED TODAY AND THEY SAID THE SAME THING

[Im Still Ballin]

Russell is obvious
Wilt is obvious
Lebron beats out Bird on sheer volume of work + accolades

4 MVPs vs 3 MVPs

2 FMVPs vs 2 FMVPs

I said they are interchangeable anyways, Lebron has slightly more individual accolades, Bird has slightly more team accolades

The finals appearances volumes are about the same (I think?) or atleast will be soon

[Fiasco]

Clippers fan saying Magic.

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe.

Kobe won multiple titles without a fellow top 50 player. Kobe played in the much tougher conference for the duration of his career. Kobe did just as much with LESS.

Those Magic teams were STACKED.

[IllegalD]

You daft knucklehead...no player ever goes around saying he's the best this or that...you just don't do that. It looks arrogant...of course past lakers have said Kobe is the best...everyone who knows basketball knows its Magic, West, Kareem as the top 3 and in that order...Kobe top 12 and not even top 3 for his own franchise...lmfao.

It's not even that "kobe fam" should stay "losing", but the fact that Kobe fans in general...knowing NOTHING about ****ing basketball! lol.

You putting Jerry West ahead of Kobe shows you know NOTHING about basketball.

Argument rendered invalid due to retarded source. :applause:

[tpols]

THE END OF THE DAY

MAGIC PLAYED 13 YEARS AND WON 5 TITLES AND HAD 3 MVP'S 3 FINALS MVP'S

Kobe played 20 seasons and WON 5 TITLES AND HAD 1 MVP AND 2 FINALS MVP'S

Magic won more MVP's and was the LEADER OF ALL THOSE TEAMS... Magic also won in college as the LEADER... IMO MAGIC WAS BETTER


EXECUTIVES WERE POLLED TODAY AND THEY SAID THE SAME THING

i agree.. prime for prime, just career wise though I feel kobe was able to do more.


and godamn man, hold the caps lol

[AlphaWolf24]

I would say MAGic was the better offensive player in terms of team ball... Kobe better defensively when he wanted to play it... Teams didnt miss a beat when Kobe didn't play.. When Magic didn't play after 91 the Lakers lost around 15 more games..

If the Lakers lost 15 more games next season they will only win 2 games...


yup ...Kinda like when the Bulls replaced all world MJ with a CBA a player and only dropped 2 games over a whole season.....

sh!t they should have beat NY and prolly won a Title.....MJ was replaced bye a CBA player who had'nt played NBA ball in over 5 years.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe.

Kobe won multiple titles without a fellow top 50 player. Kobe played in the much tougher conference for the duration of his career. Kobe did just as much with LESS.

Those Magic teams were STACKED.


kobe's weren't :facepalm

PAU, ARTEST, BYNUM , ODOM all those bigs in a league where DHoward was the best big by most peoples accounts... Pau took him to school in the FINALS...

Pau has better stats than Mchale or Worthy.. Still at this age PAU is a top player in the league and made 2nd team all NBA last season..


In the first 3 titles he had SHAQ, and Glen Rice.. He also had opps to win with KARL MALONE, PAYTON, NASH, DHOWARD... Payton was a 20 pt scorer the season before he played with the LAKERS.. So he wasn't old...

Kobe played with ridiculous amounts of talent..

[stalkerforlife]

kobe's weren't :facepalm

PAU, ARTEST, BYNUM , ODOM all those bigs in a league where DHoward was the best big by most peoples accounts... Pau took him to school in the FINALS...

Pau has better stats than Mchale or Worthy.. Still at this age PAU is a top player in the league and made 2nd team all NBA last season..


In the first 3 titles he had SHAQ, and Glen Rice.. He also had opps to win with KARL MALONE, PAYTON, NASH, DHOWARD... Payton was a 20 pt scorer the season before he played with the LAKERS.. So he wasn't old...

Kobe played with ridiculous amounts of talent..

Please tell me this is a joke.

Please tell me you're just a Kobe hater and a troll.

[CuterThanRubio]

kobe's weren't :facepalm

PAU, ARTEST, BYNUM , ODOM all those bigs in a league where DHoward was the best big by most peoples accounts... Pau took him to school in the FINALS...

Pau has better stats than Mchale or Worthy.. Still at this age PAU is a top player in the league and made 2nd team all NBA last season..


In the first 3 titles he had SHAQ, and Glen Rice.. He also had opps to win with KARL MALONE, PAYTON, NASH, DHOWARD... Payton was a 20 pt scorer the season before he played with the LAKERS.. So he wasn't old...

Kobe played with ridiculous amounts of talent..

Stop trolling.


Karl Malone was a shell of his former self and retired IMMEDIATELY after the finals.

GP averaged 5 points during the 04 playoffs, he was a NON-FACTOR!

Nash was injured THREE games into the season with PERMANENT NERVE DAMAGE, he should have retired right then and there.

And we all know Dwight is one of the least competitive guys to ever see the court, he doesn't have the fire necessary to win a championship even though he definitely has the skills.

Don't you remember when he was smiling and giggling in 09 and Kobe gave him the cold shoulder? He's a cancer, and the reports coming out of Houston solidify that claim.


Magic had KAREEM, arguably the best NBA player the world has seen, Kobe is better.

:coleman:

[stalkerforlife]

Magic had way more than Kareem, though.

Magic had stacked rosters every season in a very weak western conference.

Kobe simply did more with less.

[NBASTATMAN]

yup ...Kinda like when the Bulls replaced all world MJ with a CBA a player and only dropped 2 games over a whole season.....

sh!t they should have beat NY and prolly won a Title.....MJ was replaced bye a CBA player who had'nt played NBA ball in over 5 years.


Kukoc, Myers, Kerr, Wennington were all acquired.. Kukoc was alpha male on that team and you know.. He made like 4 game winners that season and was the only reason they had a chance vs the KNICKS... KUKOC avg like 11 pts and Myers did well and avg like 8 pts..


Also we can see how well the Lakers do without Kobe next season.. Let's see where that plus-minus IN GAMES WON is without him.. They played better this season with him on the bench than without him..


The Bulls were going for a three peat and weren't interested in regular season record.. The year before that they won 67.. Without Kukoc or Pete Myers

EITHER WAY THE EXECUTIVES WERE POLLED AND THEY HAD MAGIC AHEAD BY A WIDE MARGIN OVER KOBE AS BEST LAKER. My opinion is MAGIC

That is my opinion.. You have yours

[AlphaWolf24]

Russell is obvious
Wilt is obvious
Lebron beats out Bird on sheer volume of work + accolades

4 MVPs vs 3 MVPs

2 FMVPs vs 2 FMVPs

I said they are interchangeable anyways, Lebron has slightly more individual accolades, Bird has slightly more team accolades

The finals appearances volumes are about the same (I think?) or atleast will be soon


Russell is obvious because he won 11 Titles and 5MVP's ?( no FMVP's but if the award had been around he would have won at least 9 - 10...named after him)

Russell is also widely regarded as the GOAT defensive player ever!

so how come you don't have Russell over Michael Jordan!...you also have him below Kareem and Magic???

nearly doubled MJ in Titles!!! and would have won MORE FMVP's if the award had been around!

Oh yeah! the FMVP is named " the Bill Russell Award!"

so how come he is not the GOAT according to YOUR OWN Criteria?


see I demolished your whole explanation in 7 lines...and don't say Impact...Russell was the First Black head coach....and won 2 titles doing so!!!

[CuterThanRubio]

Magic had way more than Kareem, though.

Magic had stacked rosters every season in a very weak western conference.

Kobe simply did more with less.

For sure, I'm just accentuating the fact that KAJ is an UNDENIABLE legend in the game and he cannot be overlooked.


Cooper, Worthy, A.C. Green, Byron Scott, Mychal Thompson, those guys were no joke during that weak back and forth, high tempo era where certain teams were averaging 130 over entire seasons.

The Suns dropped 173 in REGULATION during the 1990 season and people STILL act like defense was better back in the days, give me a break!

Kobe was going up against tougher teams and taking names!

[NBASTATMAN]

Stop trolling.


Karl Malone was a shell of his former self and retired IMMEDIATELY after the finals.

GP averaged 5 points during the 04 playoffs, he was a NON-FACTOR!

Nash was injured THREE games into the season with PERMANENT NERVE DAMAGE, he should have retired right then and there.

And we all know Dwight is one of the least competitive guys to ever see the court, he doesn't have the fire necessary to win a championship even though he definitely has the skills.

Don't you remember when he was smiling and giggling in 09 and Kobe gave him the cold shoulder? He's a cancer, and the reports coming out of Houston solidify that claim.


Magic had KAREEM, arguably the best NBA player the world has seen, Kobe is better.

:coleman:


Payton was bad in that playoffs but so was PIppen from 96-98 and even Rodman's stats sucked in 97 and 98 title playoff runs.. Doesnt mean they werent great playerS

Sure Payton was out of his element and he and KObe didn't quite mesh... Still PAYTON avg over 20 and 7 assist the year before he went to the LAKERS...


YOU HAVE YOUR OPINION I HAVE MINE

THE NBA EXECUTIVES HAVE THEIRS HERE IT IS GOOD NIGHT

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles-lakers/post/_/id/42499/execs-weigh-in-on-kobes-place-in-all-time-laker-ranks

[GrapeApe]

This is actually a pretty interesting debate. Magic is generally viewed as the greater player in terms of all-time rankings, but Kobe is probably the greatest Laker due to the longevity. 20 years with the organization is remarkable. I haven't read through this thread but I imagine that the majority of Lakers fans probably agree. Kobe has been with the Lakers longer than a lot of posters on this site have been alive.

[NBASTATMAN]

Stop trolling.


Karl Malone was a shell of his former self and retired IMMEDIATELY after the finals.

GP averaged 5 points during the 04 playoffs, he was a NON-FACTOR!

Nash was injured THREE games into the season with PERMANENT NERVE DAMAGE, he should have retired right then and there.

And we all know Dwight is one of the least competitive guys to ever see the court, he doesn't have the fire necessary to win a championship even though he definitely has the skills.

Don't you remember when he was smiling and giggling in 09 and Kobe gave him the cold shoulder? He's a cancer, and the reports coming out of Houston solidify that claim.


Magic had KAREEM, arguably the best NBA player the world has seen, Kobe is better.

:coleman:

Malone was still a good and smart player that SHUT DOWN DUNCAN IN THE 2003 PLAYOFFS... GP AVG LIKE 11 PTS...

STOP LYING TROLL...

Nash was done.I will give you that. And Dhoward has made the playoffs with another SG while he barely made it with KOBE AND PAU... TWO FIRST TEAM HOF'ERS STILL PLAYING QUALITY BALL..

I HAVE MY OPINION YOU HAVE YOURS AND THE NBA EXECUTIVES HAVE THEIRS

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles-lakers/post/_/id/42499/execs-weigh-in-on-kobes-place-in-all-time-laker-ranks

[ILLsmak]

So one 60 point game on average efficiency changes history? No. Magic is still far superior.

I knew dude was gonna get 40, but I bet no one would have bet he'd get 60. No one ****in thought that. 60 points man.

SIXTY. It doesn't change anything but it's probably the best last game anyone could have had. Other dudes are limping off the court or whatever... playing 5 minutes, like some senior day level appearance.

SIXTY.

Taking Magic tho.

-Smak

[tpols]

Nash was done.I will give you that. And Dhoward has made the playoffs with another SG while he barely made it with KOBE AND PAU.

youre really exposing yourself as a troll.. dwight howard has been nothing short of miserable since orlando and the rockets made the playoffs last year on the back of harden while dwight was hurt . what are you on bro?

[NBASTATMAN]

GOT THIS FROM ESPN

Kobe is like Anakin Skywalker. The force was strong with him and he could not control it at times. He had too many weapons and abused the power. He was loved as a young Jedi, hated during his prime as a ruler, and now everyone

[CuterThanRubio]

Malone was still a good and smart player that SHUT DOWN DUNCAN IN THE 2003 PLAYOFFS... GP AVG LIKE 11 PTS...

STOP LYING TROLL...

Nash was done.I will give you that. And Dhoward has made the playoffs with another SG while he barely made it with KOBE AND PAU... TWO FIRST TEAM HOF'ERS STILL PLAYING QUALITY BALL..

I HAVE MY OPINION YOU HAVE YOURS AND THE NBA EXECUTIVES HAVE THEIRS

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles-lakers/post/_/id/42499/execs-weigh-in-on-kobes-place-in-all-time-laker-ranks

Your opinion is based on false information and lack of understanding.

You first used Nash as an example that Kobe had more help, but once I EXPOSED that as BS you changed your mind, you don't even know what you are talking about in the first place LOL!

Sorry, you are right, I misread the stat line, GP averaged 7.8 during the 04 playoffs, SO IMPACTFUL.

He averaged 18 the year before, and you said he wasn't washed up by the time he joined LA? talk about DRASTIC fall off.


Go check the gamelogs, fool!

Malone didn't score more than 13 against the Spurs in that series, and you said he shut down Duncan? LMAO WHAT? Duncan averaged 20 and 12.


Malone couldn't even put up more than 9 in the finals, he was WASHED UP and WORTHLESS.

Get demolished, son!

Kobe>Magic

[G-train]

I'd take Magic, but only just.

[andgar923]

L.A. born and raised.

Magic is the city's heart.

Magic all the way.

[NBASTATMAN]

youre really exposing yourself as a troll.. dwight howard has been nothing short of miserable since orlando and the rockets made the playoffs last year on the back of harden while dwight was hurt . what are you on bro?


HE AVG 18 , AND 12REB PLAYED 71 GAMES

HE AVG 16 PTS 10REB AND PLAYED 41 GAMES

HE AVG 13.7 AND 11.8 REB AND PLAYED 71 GAMES

His team made the playoffs every season

facts bro

Most likely first BALLOT HOF...

HE AVG 17 AND 12 REBOUND 76 GAMES PLAYED He LED THE LEAGUE IN REBOUNDS WITH THE LAKERS..

[tpols]

HE AVG 18 , AND 12REB PLAYED 71 GAMES

HE AVG 16 PTS 10REB AND PLAYED 41 GAMES

HE AVG 13.7 AND 11.8 REB AND PLAYED 71 GAMES

His team made the playoffs every season

facts bro

Most likely first BALLOT HOF...

HE AVG 17 AND 12 REBOUND 76 GAMES PLAYED He LED THE LEAGUE IN REBOUNDS WITH THE LAKERS..

in the season dwight played 71 games, rockets were bounced in the first round.

in the season dwight played a half season, rockets went to the WCF's on Hardens back.

in this years season where dwight played 71 games, the rockets couldnt even achieve a winning record and will get beat in first round


go to sleep son, he hasnt done jack shit since kobe :coleman:


and the rest of your mentions, ancient GP, Karl Malone, Steve Nash, Odom and Bynum, gave me some good lols

[NBASTATMAN]

Your opinion is based on false information and lack of understanding.

You first used Nash as an example that Kobe had more help, but once I EXPOSED that as BS you changed your mind, you don't even know what you are talking about in the first place LOL!

Sorry, you are right, I misread the stat line, GP averaged 7.8 during the 04 playoffs, SO IMPACTFUL.

He averaged 18 the year before, and you said he wasn't washed up by the time he joined LA? talk about DRASTIC fall off.


Go check the gamelogs, fool!

Malone didn't score more than 13 against the Spurs in that series, and you said he shut down Duncan? LMAO WHAT? Duncan averaged 20 and 12.


Malone couldn't even put up more than 9 in the finals, he was WASHED UP and WORTHLESS.

Get demolished, son!

Kobe>Magic


I Caught you lying about PAyton and now I see you did not watch that series 2004 VS THE SPURS.. Malone single teamed Duncan that series and played great defense on him..

Kobe was healthy in that finals IN 2004 and shot 35-37 percent and avg 17 pts a game.. Made worse when you realize he had one game where he scored around 35 ON GOOD EFFICIENCY. Kobe aslo had more turnovers than assists I believe in that series.. YOU DIDNT WATCH I KNOW:D

BTW KOBE ALSO PLAYED WITH HORACE GRANT SO YOU CAN ADD HIM AS WELL...

BTW i can tell you haven't watched these series that I have watched.. GOOD DAY YOUNGBE:rockon:

[stalkerforlife]

I Caught you lying about PAyton and now I see you did not watch that series 2004 VS THE SPURS.. Malone single teamed Duncan that series and played great defense on him..

Kobe was healthy in that finals IN 2004 and shot 35-37 percent and avg 17 pts a game.. Made worse when you realize he had one game where he scored around 35 ON GOOD EFFICIENCY. Kobe aslo had more turnovers than assists I believe in that series.. YOU DIDNT WATCH I KNOW:D

BTW KOBE ALSO PLAYED WITH HORACE GRANT SO YOU CAN ADD HIM AS WELL...

BTW i can tell you haven't watched these series that I have watched.. GOOD DAY YOUNGBE:rockon:

:facepalm

[NBASTATMAN]

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles-lakers/post/_/id/42499/execs-weigh-in-on-kobes-place-in-all-time-laker-ranks

END THIS THREAD.. HAVE A GREAT NIGHT..

MAGIC HAS THE HARDWARE 3 MVPS AND 3 FINALS MVPS

[NBASTATMAN]

:facepalm


YEA HORACE SCUKED... :facepalm

YOU IDIOTS WILL DO ANYTHING TO HAVE PEOPLE AGREE WITH YOU.. You better call up STEPHEN A SMITH AND SKIP BAYLESS CUZ THEY DON 'T AGREE EITHER...

Wait neither do most NBA executives... Call all of them up as well:rockon:

[CuterThanRubio]

Yeah, a WASHED UP Gary Payton and Malone sure carried Kobe during the playoffs.

Kobe only scored the most points in the entire postseason that year.

What happened to those bums during the finals?


Nice REACH, Horace was the MOST WASHED when he joined LA.

The fact remains, MAGIC HIMSELF calls Kobe the greatest Laker, who cares what a bunch of executives who never played in the league have to say?

:coleman:

You got roasted by everyone in this thread, it's over man, think of a new angle.

[NBASTATMAN]

Yeah, a WASHED UP Gary Payton and Malone sure carried Kobe during the playoffs.

Kobe only scored the most points in the entire postseason that year.

What happened to those bums during the finals?


Nice REACH, Horace was the MOST WASHED when he joined LA.

The fact remains, MAGIC HIMSELF calls Kobe the greatest Laker, who cares what a bunch of executives who never played in the league have to say?

:coleman:

You got roasted by everyone in this thread, it's over man, think of a new angle.

BRO YOUR SUCH AN IDIOT .. Horace played twice with lakers.. In 2004 and in 2001.. In 2001 he was still a good player and helped them be GREAT DURING THAT GREAT PLAYOFF RUN 15-1 IN 2001..

I know you didn't watch that either... YOU ARE A JOKE :roll: :rockon:


MAGIC HAS THE HARDWARE 3 MVPS AND 3 FINALS MVPS

[CuterThanRubio]

BRO YOUR SUCH AN IDIOT .. Horace played twice with lakers.. In 2004 and in 2001.. In 2001 he was still a good player and helped them be GREAT DURING THAT GREAT PLAYOFF RUN 15-1 IN 2001..

I know you didn't watch that either... YOU ARE A JOKE :roll: :rockon:


MAGIC HAS THE HARDWARE 3 MVPS AND 3 FINALS MVPS


Helped them?

How, with 6 points and 6 rebounds per game and 96 total points over 16 games?

That's scrub work that could have been provided by any random player.

He wasn't even active in the 04 playoffs, I'm supposed to believe he was the reason why Kobe was so effective?

LMAO.

Kobe>Magic.

You suck at trolling, or maybe you are actually that angry.

What a sad individual you are!

[NBASTATMAN]

Helped them?

How, with 6 points and 6 rebounds per game and 96 total points over 16 games?

That's scrub work that could have been provided by any random player.

He wasn't even active in the 04 playoffs, I'm supposed to believe he was the reason why Kobe was so effective?

LMAO.

Kobe>Magic.

You suck at trolling, or maybe you are actually that angry.

What a sad individual you are!


SO RODMAN AVG 4 PTS AND 8 REBOUNDS FOR THE BULLS IN 97 playoff run

.. I GUESS HE SUCKED AS WELL....YOU dont know basketball that is evident..

Idiot these guys are there to play roles and play them well... Each player has a role to play... I know you didn't watch the games that is evident.. Cuz if you did you wouldnt be so STUPID :roll:


MAGIC HAS THE HARDWARE 3 MVPS AND 3 FINALS MVPS

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm still Ballin- Kobe's case for top 5 fails because of his lack of individual accomplishment

You seem to underrate MVPs. You understand what they are, right? You can understand if a Nash or a Rose wins them, but they are as legitimate as can be when won by established all timers like MJ/Lebron/Bird/Magic/Wilt/Russell

The trick is you have to individualize every MVP for who it is... It's also an award that is extremely high praise and a must have on any top 10 resume

Now that I think about it, Kobe's lack of MVPs/FMVPs didn't hold him back, so much as he didn't have them to boost his resume

Russell is obvious
Wilt is obvious
Lebron beats out Bird on sheer volume of work + accolades

4 MVPs vs 3 MVPs

2 FMVPs vs 2 FMVPs

I said they are interchangeable anyways, Lebron has slightly more individual accolades, Bird has slightly more team accolades

The finals appearances volumes are about the same (I think?) or atleast will be soon


Russell won 11 rings in a 13 year career (including 8 in a row, an all time record for professional sports...next best run is 5 in a row).

Jordan won 6 rings in a 15 year career (three-peating twice).

This puts Russell in an entirely different category than Jordan
in terms of being a winner.

In the two years that Russell did not win the title, he lost in the finals once (in 1958, thanks to playing on a broken ankle...and everyone thinks Jordan was tough because he played with the FLU, remember that? LOL), and lost in the Eastern Conference finals the other time (1967).

Russell never played on a losing team. Jordan played on 5 losing teams.

Russell's teams won over 70% of his games during his career. His career winning percentage was never below .600.

It took Michael FIVE YEARS before his career W/L record reached .500. After five years, his career W/L record stood at 205-205, a .500 percentage. His final career W/L pct was around .645 or so (compared to .705 for Russell).

The Finals MVP is named after Bill Russell....Finals MVPs were not given out during Russell's career, except for 1969, his last title....

Russell played the greatest game 7 in Finals History, tallying 30 points and pulling down 40 rebounds against the Lakers in 1962.

Russell led the most dominant team in Olympic history, the 1956 squad, which won their games by an average of 55 points/game.

He also won back to back NCAA championships in college, and averaged over 20 points and over 20 rebounds per game in his college career (less than ten guys have ever been career 20/20 players in college).

Russell was the first player to win an NCAA championship, an Olympic Gold Medal, and an NBA championship in succession.

Russell won with Cousy and without Cousy. He won with Havlicek and without Havlicek. He won with Sam Jones and without Sam Jones. He won with Tom Heinson and without Tom Heinson.

Jordan never played on a .500 team without Pippen. And he never made it out of the first round of the playoffs without Pippen.

Russell was 11-0 in deciding games of playoff series (he was 10-0 in game 7s and 1-0 in deciding game 5's).

Russell was by far the greatest winner in the history of not only the NBA, but of any team sport in the U.S.A. Jordan's 'winning' accomplishments are dwarfed by Russell's

Russell was named the GOAT by the NBA itself in 1980!!!




Please tell me how on Kobe's green earth.....Michael Jordan...Magic...and Wilt are ahead of Russell.....according to what you stated as your criteria...

How is Russell not the GOAT?....more accolades then anyone.

MVP's or Accolades?....:lol

funny part is....you sound dumb as hell talkin about your top 5 when you didn't even watch them play!!!





your dealing with a pro son....sit down...watch and learn.





( thumps chest)


next

[CuterThanRubio]

SO RODMAN AVG 4 PTS AND 8 REBOUNDS FOR THE BULLS IN 97 playoff run

.. I GUESS HE SUCKED AS WELL....YOU dont know basketball that is evident..

Idiot these guys are there to play roles and play them well... Each player has a role to play... I know you didn't watch the games that is evident.. Cuz if you did you wouldnt be so STUPID :roll:


MAGIC HAS THE HARDWARE 3 MVPS AND 3 FINALS MVPS

I already buried you, why are you still responding?

Rodman was a defensive anchor, Grant was a WASHED UP bum filling out the roster, FAIL TROLL YOU ARE LAME SON GET OUT OF HERE!

[Smook A.]

:facepalm

Magic has a decent case for top 5.

Kobe has pretty bad case for top 10.
You're out of your mind if you really think that

[Round Mound]

20 Year Old Magic vs The Sixers in Game 6 of The NBA Finals:

42 Points
15 Rebounds
7 Assists.

Magic.

[NBASTATMAN]

Rodman was a defensive anchor, Grant was a WASHED UP bum filling out the roster, FAIL TROLL YOU ARE LAME SON GET OUT OF HERE!


I get IT, I shit on you so you wait hours before you respond again.. :roll:

I get it, you didn't watch those games.. :banana:

I get it , you live your life on this board with multiple accounts.. :facepalm

YouR dumber than the usual KOBE STAN... And anyone who watched Lakers in 2001 will tell you the truth... Horace was integral in that 2001 title.. Rodman avg 4 and 8 and played 28 minutes a game IN 97 playoffs.. That is barely more than half of a game...Yes Rodman was integral as well... Grant played and had very similar stats.. I watched both and you weren't even born..

FROM LAKERSNATION

"Horace Grant was one of the best role players of his generation. In addition to being a key piece during the Chicago Bulls