Magic Johnson only has ONE "signature game"

[CuterThanRubio]

Game six of the 1980 NBA finals is the only game that Magic Johnson is remembered for.

His baby hook shot is the second moment that people may recall, but that is a single shot at the very end of a game, nobody remembers anything else from that one, so I'm not qualifying it.


Now, think of Kobe, if members of the board were asked to describe his signature moment there would be an entire thread worth of different responses.

The older guys will argue that Kobe had more exposure, if Magic had that kind of viewership he would be just as popular, but I disagree, he was the facilitator and rarely ever needed to carry the type of weight that Kobe did.

It is tough to expect outstanding solo performances from a guy who is sharing the floor with Kareem Abdul Jabbar, he didn't need to look for his own shot when the best scorer in league history is on the block pinning a random 80s scrub out of position.

It is no surprise that Magic's greatest game occurred without KAJ, because when they were both of the floor Magic's main role was that of distributor.


Now, let's look at Kobe again, he was with Shaq, a guy you shouldn't be taking shots away from, but he still managed to construct a catalog of signature games while playing beside him.

Magic has ZERO signature games while playing with KAJ, but Kobe has numerous signature games while playing next to Shaq, now tell me who is greater?

Can anyone even remember a signature PAU game?

I didn't think so.

Kobe>Magic

There is no debate.

[riseagainst]

inb4 6/24

[navy]

Even if this was true...

So?

Winning is winning. Just because you put on arbitrarily signature on it doesnt make it less or more.

[Peteballa]

Yeah, maybe it's because most of the posters on here are younger and can actually recall Kobe's biggest shots. If you ask someone who watched basketball primarily in the 80's, they would list a handful of signature Magic shots, because that's the era that they paid attention to.

That doesn't make Kobe > Magic. I'm not saying he is or isn't: I'm just pointing out how flawed your reasoning is. They had entirely different games and affected everything that was going on in completely different ways.

[CuterThanRubio]

Even if this was true...

So?

Winning is winning. Just because you put on arbitrarily signature on it doesnt make it less or more.

Kobe has won just as much as Magic, there needs to be a way to differentiate between the levels of individual impact.

Just because he won as many titles doesn't mean he was a better player, that logic is terrible.

Kobe is a better player, MAGIC HIMSELF will tell you that.

[JohnnySic]

McHale would have blocked that baby hook if his foot wasn't broken.

[IllegalD]

Not to mention Magic never won a chip without another Top 5/GOAT level player in Kareem, like Kobe did.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When did this become a prerequisite for greatness? Magic played his absolute BEST in the playoffs and finals so this shouldn't even be relevant. :oldlol:

BTW, that one "signature game" is arguably better than anybodies...in NBA history.

[SouBeachTalents]

So what? What was Kareem's, Bird's, Hakeem's, Shaq's signature game? Hell, what was Kobe's signature playoff game?

[DCL]

this is the stupidest approach ever to compare players

[Smoke117]

You're a moron.

[jlip]

But he does have this Finals.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241681

[truhooper]

What are Kobe's besides his 81 point game & his final game :confusedshrug:

[WorldWarriors]

Magic led his team to a championship as a rookie. :bowdown:

[Sarcastic]

That ONE game happens to be perhaps the greatest finals performance of all time. Pretty hard to follow up on that, but 4 more rings isn't too shabby.

[Dro]

Spoken like a guy who's only seen Magic's memorable moments on ESPN highlights.

Newsflash, just because its not on ESPN, doesn't mean its not memorable...

[Dro]

Kobe has won just as much as Magic, there needs to be a way to differentiate between the levels of individual impact.

Just because he won as many titles doesn't mean he was a better player, that logic is terrible.

Kobe is a better player, MAGIC HIMSELF will tell you that.
I don't care if Magic said it on his death bed, Kobe's not a better player than Magic...

[CuterThanRubio]

I don't care if Magic said it on his death bed, Kobe's not a better player than Magic...

LOL

You are in such a state of denial, why are you so distraught?

You can't be the greatest Laker when you played with a top 2 all time talent on your team, it is that simple.

Magic never won without Kareem, but Kobe won without Shaq.

Kobe has more signature games in a single season than Magic does in his entire career.

:coleman:

[Uncle Drew]

Magic led his team to a championship as a rookie. :bowdown:
This isn't true at all. Kareem was the Finals MVP despite missing game 6. Magic 'won' FMVP because Kareem was back in L.A. due to injury, yet he received the most votes.

[kamil]

Give it 30 years and we'll see how well kobe's game are remembered....

[Indian guy]

This is an odd thread. Kobe has been routinely mocked for not having any 'signature' games or moments on the game's biggest stage - the playoffs. Magic has 2 of the biggest on the other hand - Game 6 of the '80 Finals and the GW hook in Game 4 of the '87 Finals.

A couple of meaningless regular season games against lottery teams doesn't trump that, sorry.

[Psileas]

This is an odd thread. Kobe has been routinely mocked for not having any 'signature' games or moments on the game's biggest stage - the playoffs. Magic has 2 of the biggest on the other hand - Game 6 of the '80 Finals and the GW hook in Game 4 of the '87 Finals.

A couple of meaningless regular season games against lottery teams doesn't trump that, sorry.

That's what I was about to mention. Which is still not correct (Kobe still had huge playoff games), but given the hyperbole of the OP, it's not any worse of an argument.
Plus, the fact that people are hooked on points, points, points like there is no tomorrow. But Magic was throwing triple-doubles left and right like nothing. He had been averaging a triple double for his first 50 playoff games. Who the heck is going to remember all these games to find "signature" ones? Many of these games would be signature games for the majority of the NBA. As for his supposed "#2 signature", he had been destroying the Celtics during the whole '87 Finals to a tone worse than Game 4 - this was his worst all around game in the series.
And, for all its legend, his 42 point game wasn't even his most prolific one in the playoffs, it was only his 4th one. His playoff career high is 1 point higher than Bird's.

[Dro]

LOL

You are in such a state of denial, why are you so distraught?

You can't be the greatest Laker when you played with a top 2 all time talent on your team, it is that simple.

Magic never won without Kareem, but Kobe won without Shaq.

Kobe has more signature games in a single season than Magic does in his entire career.

:coleman:
Distraught? For what? Is Magic my favorite player? I've probably made 2 posts about Magic the entire time I've been here, lol..

You're putting stuff in a vaccum, totally ignoring any kind of context..Claiming Magic won all his titles with a top 5 player when Kareem was past his prime arguably for 2 of them.

Spewing a bunch of opinions doesn't make it true.


Kobe has more signature games in a single season than Magic does in his entire career.

Thats your opinion...Many folks would call you ridiculous for saying that.


You can't be the greatest Laker when you played with a top 2 all time talent on your team, it is that simple.


Ridiculous, again. Kobe won 3 of his titles with a top 10 player in Shaq. You claim Kareem was top 5 so Magic's don't count. Well Shaq is top 10, ranked higher than Kobe, so Kobe's first 3 titles don't count either...

So what's your point again?

[CuterThanRubio]

This is an odd thread. Kobe has been routinely mocked for not having any 'signature' games or moments on the game's biggest stage - the playoffs. Magic has 2 of the biggest on the other hand - Game 6 of the '80 Finals and the GW hook in Game 4 of the '87 Finals.

A couple of meaningless regular season games against lottery teams doesn't trump that, sorry.

Magic has ZERO memorable regular season moments, and 1.5 post season moments.

Magic NEVER even scored 50 in a single game.

Yet I'm supposed to believe that he is better than Kobe/

There is no debate.

I'm not saying Magic isn't a legend, I'm just saying Kobe is greater, and even Magic agrees.

[Bankaii]

Not to mention Magic never won a chip without another Top 5/GOAT level player in Kareem, like Kobe did.
Tell me more how 40 year old Kareem was still playing like a top 5 GOAT level player.

[dhsilv]

What the hell do you consider a "signature" game? If it has ANYTHING to do with point scored you need to learn more about the game.

There are still a LOT of fans who consider Magic the greatest player ever.

[dhsilv]

Magic has ZERO memorable regular season moments, and 1.5 post season moments.

Magic NEVER even scored 50 in a single game.

Yet I'm supposed to believe that he is better than Kobe/

There is no debate.

I'm not saying Magic isn't a legend, I'm just saying Kobe is greater, and even Magic agrees.

What does scoring 50 mean?

[CuterThanRubio]

What does scoring 50 mean?

It means Magic had more help and he isn't as good at the most important part of the game as Kobe is.

It is a shame that a large group of knowledgeable Kobe fanboys seemingly disappeared because there should be more people agreeing with me in here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk_j4drvDNw

"He is the greatest to wear the purple and gold"

Magic said it, I'm only reinforcing his words.

[jlip]

It means Magic had more help and he isn't as good at the most important part of the game as Kobe is.

It is a shame that a large group of knowledgeable Kobe fanboys seemingly disappeared because there should be more people agreeing with me in here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk_j4drvDNw

"He is the greatest to wear the purple and gold"

Magic said it, I'm only reinforcing his words.


Kobe Bryant Calls Magic Johnson The Greatest Laker Ever (http://www.lakersnation.com/kobe-bryant-calls-magic-the-greatest-laker-ever/2016/04/14/)


So, will you now reinforce Kobe's words? :confusedshrug:

[iamgine]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/094/352/guypointingdown2.png

[JtotheIzzo]

OP is yet another tard in a board full of them.

1987 finals? game winner?

have you never seen a playoff montage?

Go back to plssing on the seat you 9 year old.

[Lebron23]

Not to mention Magic never won a chip without another Top 5/GOAT level player in Kareem, like Kobe did.

Thank God Jeff banned this douchebag.

[CuterThanRubio]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/094/352/guypointingdown2.png

Wrong.

Easy excuse to ignore the subject.

I'm a modern basketball crusader, not a troll. Check my past threads.

+I ALREADY ADDRESSED THE BABY HOOK AND 1980 GAME, OF COURSE YOU GUYS CAN'T CONJURE UP ANY FURTHER EXAMPLES BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY!

[iamgine]

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/121851/3038390-9499298058-50550.jpg

[jlip]

Magic Johnson's Flu Game- 1988 Finals (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBC09160F0BBDC3CA)- 23pts/11ast/7rbs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198806090LAL.html#LAL_basic::none)

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19880611&id=eElOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KBQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5982,4796607&hl=en

http://articles.philly.com/1988-06-09/sports/26266330_1_magic-johnson-pistons-coach-chuck-daly-practice

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-06-09/sports/sp-6362_1_detroit-pistons


https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19880613&id=iQcgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-2QFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6170,2279898&hl=en


^Articles^


Read the breakdown of his 1987 Finals in this post. (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6549699&postcount=1) The game winning skyhook game may have actually been his worst game of the series.


This is kind of random, but I was just looking at Magic's playoffs stats. These were the per game avg. over those first four seasons.

'80- 18.3ppg 10.5rpg 9.4apg 16 games
'81- 17.0ppg 13.7rpg 7.0apg 3 games
'82- 17.4ppg 11.3rpg 9.3apg 14 games
'83- 17.9ppg 8.5rpg 12.8apg 15 games


4 year avg.- 17.8 ppg 10.3rpg 10.3apg

This includes 3 Finals appearances and 2 titles. So we're looking at extremely deep playoff runs each season except for one.
:bowdown:

Finally research the 1991 WCF. The Blazers were the heavy favorites coming off a Finals run and had homecourt. James Worthy, who was the Lakers leading scorer was hampered with an injury. Magic took over the series, especially the series clinching game 6, and sealed the victory with this play (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4YTifBU1tE#t=4m21s) leading his team to the Finals. I remember watching that live.

[CuterThanRubio]

Inflated assist totals thanks to breakneck pace, I know his court vision was very impressive, but its not hard to find the open man when he is leaking down the court undefended, and he still only led the league in total assists THREE times.


Let's not act like Kobe doesn't have an entire collection of playoff moments.


+ iamgine you can't fade me with your tired and uninspired memes, contribute or get out of the thread, if anyone is trolling it is you, sorry if my opinion pissed you off, you crybaby!

[Pointguard]

Game six of the 1980 NBA finals is the only game that Magic Johnson is remembered for.

His baby hook shot is the second moment that people may recall, but that is a single shot at the very end of a game, nobody remembers anything else from that one, so I'm not qualifying it.


Now, think of Kobe, if members of the board were asked to describe his signature moment there would be an entire thread worth of different responses.

The older guys will argue that Kobe had more exposure, if Magic had that kind of viewership he would be just as popular, but I disagree, he was the facilitator and rarely ever needed to carry the type of weight that Kobe did.

It is tough to expect outstanding solo performances from a guy who is sharing the floor with Kareem Abdul Jabbar, he didn't need to look for his own shot when the best scorer in league history is on the block pinning a random 80s scrub out of position.

It is no surprise that Magic's greatest game occurred without KAJ, because when they were both of the floor Magic's main role was that of distributor.


Now, let's look at Kobe again, he was with Shaq, a guy you shouldn't be taking shots away from, but he still managed to construct a catalog of signature games while playing beside him.

Magic has ZERO signature games while playing with KAJ, but Kobe has numerous signature games while playing next to Shaq, now tell me who is greater?

Can anyone even remember a signature PAU game?

I didn't think so.

Kobe>Magic

There is no debate.
This is a sad case of somebody not doing their homework. While Magic didn't have a long career, I would put his spectacular moments against any player. He didn't have as many good moments as Jordan but spectacular moments he's up there with Jordan and nobody else is in their conversation. Magic was Magic.

From 10:35 of this video til the end of the video there are at least 15 spectacular moments - sobeit, most are in the playoffs and a good number are in the finals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI. Also, there is only one pass in that portion of the video. His crowd crazy passes often changed the momentum of the game. With one play Magic could change the whole complexion of the game.

Kobe did not have as many spectacular moments, big time games or even series. Magic had much more valuable games on bigger stages, too. You picked the wrong stage to hype your boy.

[Kblaze8855]

I strongly suspect you have never seen Magic play a basketball game....so im gonna leave you be. Your opinion is based on virtually nothing so I can hardly blame you for having it.

[CuterThanRubio]

I strongly suspect you have never seen Magic play a basketball game....so im gonna leave you be. Your opinion is based on virtually nothing so I can hardly blame you for having it.

Yet another person blinded by anger, unwilling to contribute, only outraged at an opinion that MAGIC HIMSELF shares with me, it's puzzling.


The fact remains, he has two signature moments, and one signature game, unless you are desperate to throw in his 92 all star appearance.

In that case, Kobe has even MORE signature games on his resume, the LeBron block alone is more notable than the best highlight from most players careers.

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe is better than Magic, quite comfortably.

Good thread, OP.

[dhsilv]

It means Magic had more help and he isn't as good at the most important part of the game as Kobe is.

It is a shame that a large group of knowledgeable Kobe fanboys seemingly disappeared because there should be more people agreeing with me in here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk_j4drvDNw

"He is the greatest to wear the purple and gold"

Magic said it, I'm only reinforcing his words.

Magic is a politician and a former player. His judgement on the game isn't that meaningful and more importantly you can't really trust he's being honest ever. He's virtually never negative on anything he says.

And no, scoring is not the most important part of the game. Basketball is just not that simple.

As for the help piece, that doesn't diminish what magic was or what he accomplished. Magic did have better teammates but his success was far far greater than kobe's.

Just to add to the mix.

Magic won 75% of the games he played in in the regular season. 74.96%
Kobe won 62.1%

The difference there is not small it's massive.

From a stats stand point neither kobe nor magic really jump out in the stats world. Just they both had their raw counting stat dominance, but nobody uses those anymore. In the more commonly used all in one stats, kobe never lead the league in any meaningful stat. It's actually pretty shocking. Magic at least lead the league in VORP for a year and did well in the WS/48 and OWS in another year. Career magic has a higher VORP in about 440 fewer games. WS/48 career is another telling one. I can't cherry pick kobe's career ranges to find even remotely a stretch to compare to magic's career.

As for "signature" I'm actually struggling to think of a major Kobe moment I'd tell a kid about in 10 years. The two moment's for magic you mentioned were the things of legend. You can't watch basketball and not have seen those games or at least documentaries/recaps of those playoff series. With kobe, I'm not talking about regular season games with anyone, so what are his major games? Sure the 6-24 game is brought up here a lot, it's a bit dismissive to insult him over what wasn't really a bad game, but that's the games i most remember of Kobe's, just because it was game 7 of the finals vs the celtics. Don't get me wrong the guy has some huge moments over the years. Some great games vs the kings and blazers and spurs. The orlando finals was big, but non of that comes close to either of those moment's with magic.

I like kobe, his fans are idiots mostly, but you're taking it too far with him.

[dhsilv]

Inflated assist totals thanks to breakneck pace, I know his court vision was very impressive, but its not hard to find the open man when he is leaking down the court undefended, and he still only led the league in total assists THREE times.


Let's not act like Kobe doesn't have an entire collection of playoff moments.


+ iamgine you can't fade me with your tired and uninspired memes, contribute or get out of the thread, if anyone is trolling it is you, sorry if my opinion pissed you off, you crybaby!

Magic is 2rd all time, min 500 minutes played, in assists per 100 possessions. Only falling behind Stockton, full disclosure, my spread sheet is not updated with 2016 data, but I don't recall anyone having a season to move that needle.

Stockton at 16.82 followed by Magic at 14.56 and then Chis Paul at 14.52. After that we drop to Nash at 13.78 and Mark Jackson at 13.75.

But yeah...it was all the pace...

I won't lie defense wasn't great in the 80's but he dominated his peers and he did so more than Kobe did in his era.

[LAZERUSS]

You can make a claim that almost every basketball player could have scored more, but Magic is unquestionably the one player who could have scored FAR more than he did.

He had streaks in the mid-to-late 80's in which he would hang 30+ point games with double-digit assists. In his '87 season he had a 19 game streak ion which he averaged 29.1 ppg, 11.7 apg, and 6.4 apg. Included were games of 38, 38, 42, and 46 points. Oh, and also a game of 4 points on four shots, with 18 assists. Which just goes to show you how little Magic cared about scoring. But if you remove that aberration, he would have averaged 30 ppg and 11 apg in that span.

Psileas mentioned it already, but Magic had a higher scoring post-season game than Bird did. He also had a much higher scoring Finals game than Bird did. Furthermore, in their career H2H's, Magic had the two highest scoring games between the two (37 and 39 points.)

And in his '90 post-season, and with his team facing elimination, he hung back-to-back 43 point games (averaging 9 apg in the process.)

Jlip pointed out his '87 Finals, which has a case as one of the GOAT Finals in NBA history, and was far greater than any Finals that Kobe had.

Magic is also the all-time W-L% leader in NBA history, and even including his comeback season, when he was a shell, he led his teams to the Finals nine times in 13 seasons, and won five rings. BTW, he had a higher career W-L% without KAJ, then with him.

Magic certainly has a case for GOAT, and is easily a Top-5 player of all-time.

[the mesiah]

It's funny when posters post nonsense and clearly show they don't know SH!t about the actual game and born in the 90's ..carry on troll,.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe edges Magic for being both sides of the ball. Yea Magic certainly played the better Team game, but those 5 or 6 extra assists you're not getting with Kobe (averages about 4.7) he makes up for his insane point output. 30,40, 50 pts while playing hard nosed defense is amazing, which is why Jordan got so much credit for his game while being considerably better on the defensive side of the ball than even Kobe.

I don't think people realize that's why the League valued Kobe's game so much. Despite being seen as inefficient and a non Team player he also counter balanced that by being the hardest worker and a tenacious defender.

Magic or Kobe? Flip a coin and move on

[AirFederer]

Fuuuuuck outta here OP, no class no knowledge no respect no nothing.
:facepalm :wtf: :no: