Why does Kobe's scoring drop off in the playoffs?

[Im Still Ballin]

Everyone talks about his legendary regular season feats

Why didn't it translate?

I'm talking about his high scoring games, his PPG average is only marginally higher than the regular season. Lebron has more high scoring games than Kobe which seems odd because it's the other way around in the regular season

I believe aj has a good copy paste he wrote up ages ago about this

[Dray n Klay]

Same with his FG%, especially in the finals against superior east defenses

[Eye Test]

LeBeast

[Im Still Ballin]

LeBeast
:roll: :roll: :roll:

The Jabbar-Simon war rages on

[knicksman]

bran is inconsistent tho. No wonder hes 2/6. You dont know what youre getting with him. And against the best of the best, Bran plays shit almost all the time while kobe murders them.

[Smoke117]

Kobrick only shows up when it means jack shit...this is known. He's possibly the least clutch player to ever play the game...

[Eye Test]

He's possibly the least clutch player to ever play the game...

<------------



:(

[Bankaii]

Because Kobe's scoring is drastically overrated by his stans and it doesn't translate as well into the postseason.
Dude is the biggest regular season warrior, and with only 1 MVP he wasn't even the best at that.

[Fire Colangelo]

??

Regular season PPG: 25
Playoffs PPG: 25.6


Even if you ignore his #s from the past 4 seasons when he didn't make the playoffs, his regular season PPG is 25.4

00-02 Kobe Regular season PPG: 25.4
00-02 Kobe playoffs PPG: 25.3

08-10 Kobe Regular season PPG: 27.4
08-10 Kobe playoffs: 29.8

Come on guys... at least be factually correct.

[Im Still Ballin]

??

Regular season PPG: 25
Playoffs PPG: 25.6


Even if you ignore his #s from the past 4 seasons when he didn't make the playoffs, his regular season PPG is 25.4

00-02 Kobe Regular season PPG: 25.4
00-02 Kobe playoffs PPG: 25.3

08-10 Kobe Regular season PPG: 27.4
08-10 Kobe playoffs: 29.8

Come on guys... at least be factually correct.
Read the original post

[Fire Colangelo]

Read the original post

Really misleading title lol.

[WayOfWade]

How many players actually increase their PPG in the playoffs? I'm pretty sure MJ and maybe Dirk, but I'll have to look up the rest

I saw the OP, just got me thinking

[no pun intended]

Really misleading title lol.
It seriously is. Since when is 25 → 25.6 a drop off?

[JT123]

How many players actually increase their PPG in the playoffs? I'm pretty sure MJ and maybe Dirk, but I'll have to look up the rest

I saw the OP, just got me thinking
Lebron does. :confusedshrug:
But I guess he's held to a different standard than Kobe since he's top 3 all time and all. :bowdown:

[Lebron23]

Same with his FG%, especially in the finals against superior east defenses


He's been a terrible finals performance. He's only shooting 40-41 FG% against what the Kobestans called Leastern Conference.

[Smoke117]

He's been a terrible finals performance. He's only shooting 40-41 FG% against what the Kobestans called Leastern Conference.

What's funny is how these Kobe stans herald his 2009 finals vs the Magic...where he needed 27 shots to average 32 points with a pathetic 43%fg and .524%ts...btw Pau Gasol shot 60% in that final series...while taking 75 less shots than kobrick...:oldlol:

If KG had never hurt his knee during that season the Celtics would have raped the Lakers again. Kobe literally owes his 4th and 5th championship do to the fact that Big Kev got injured.

[Lebron23]

What's funny is how these Kobe stans herald his 2009 finals vs the Magic...where he needed 27 shots to average 32 points with a pathetic 43%fg and .524%ts...btw Pau Gasol shot 60% in that final series...while taking 75 less shots than kobrick...:oldlol:

If KG had never hurt his knee during that season the Celtics would have raped the Lakers again. Kobe literally owes his 4th and 5th championship do to the fact that Big Kev got injured.


I agree.

[Mr Feeny]

Same with his FG%, especially in the finals against superior east defenses

His fg% falls off dramatically in the finals. He's a 40% finals shooter. A 25% game 7 finals shooter.

The higher the stakes, the worse he shoots.

[dhsilv]

His fg% falls off dramatically in the finals. He's a 40% finals shooter. A 25% game 7 finals shooter.

The higher the stakes, the worse he shoots.

Or the greater the competition? or we're talking small sample sizes that are inflated by higher shooting nights in low scoring games?

[dhsilv]

Everyone talks about his legendary regular season feats

Why didn't it translate?

I'm talking about his high scoring games, his PPG average is only marginally higher than the regular season. Lebron has more high scoring games than Kobe which seems odd because it's the other way around in the regular season

I believe aj has a good copy paste he wrote up ages ago about this

Do you have stats to back this up?

[dhsilv]

The only real difference in kobe's playoff scoring to regular seasons seems to be his 4th quartile is 61 in regular season and 50in the playoffs.

I mean literally we're talking dead even stats. Mean 25.63636 playoffs vs 24.9948 regular season. Median 26 in the playoffs, 25 in the regular season. Mode 22 playoffs vs 21 regular season. Standard deviation is 9.83428 in the playoffs vs 10.71989 in the regular season.

Basically kobe is marginally better scoring in the playoffs and a bit more consistent in his range of scoring out bursts. This seems like all rather good stuff.

The only thing to back what you're saying is up is that his 4th quartile is 61 in the regular season and 50 in the playoffs.

It's way too late/early to graph this and do the work on kurtosis but I can somewhat see that Kobe's playoff performance has lesser tails so there's something here, but that seems to make sense given his better overall performance scoring and lower standard deviation. All of these being pro kobe things though.

[Lebron23]

The only real difference in kobe's playoff scoring to regular seasons seems to be his 4th quartile is 61 in regular season and 50in the playoffs.

I mean literally we're talking dead even stats. Mean 25.63636 playoffs vs 24.9948 regular season. Median 26 in the playoffs, 25 in the regular season. Mode 22 playoffs vs 21 regular season. Standard deviation is 9.83428 in the playoffs vs 10.71989 in the regular season.

Basically kobe is marginally better scoring in the playoffs and a bit more consistent in his range of scoring out bursts. This seems like all rather good stuff.

The only thing to back what you're saying is up is that his 4th quartile is 61 in the regular season and 50 in the playoffs.

It's way too late/early to graph this and do the work on kurtosis but I can somewhat see that Kobe's playoff performance has lesser tails so there's something here, but that seems to make sense given his better overall performance scoring and lower standard deviation. All of these being pro kobe things though.


Do you have any money? I bet that the Cavaliers are going to beat the Warriors if they meet in the NBA Finals this year.

[dhsilv]

Do you have any money? I bet that the Cavaliers are going to beat the Warriors if they meet in the NBA Finals this year.

lol....I don't bet with kids.

[Mr Feeny]

Or the greater the competition? or we're talking small sample sizes that are inflated by higher shooting nights in low scoring games?

Ofcourse. The competition is greater in the playoffs and finals and that is where the elite scorers stans out.
Kobe's shooting percentages drop conspicuously in the biggest games.
39 % in elimination games and 40% in nba finals.

While everyone faces tougher competition when the stakes are higher, the Lebron's of the world have proven to be better scorers when it counts.

[Mr Feeny]

Do you have stats to back this up?

Sure. Lebron has 13-14 40 point games in the playoffs.
Nobody since Jordan retired from the Bulls has more.
Not even Shaq.
Kobe most certainly doesn't despite routinely taking shot after il advised shot in an attempt to rack up points.

[Lebron23]

lol....I don't bet with kids.


Why are you scared?

[dhsilv]

Ofcourse. The competition is greater in the playoffs and finals and that is where the elite scorers stans out.
Kobe's shooting percentages drop conspicuously in the biggest games.
39 % in elimination games and 40% in nba finals.

While everyone faces tougher competition when the stakes are higher, the Lebron's of the world have proven to be better scorers when it counts.

The finals for Kobe have generally been lesser series over his career than the west finals.

The point was that Kobe's scoring has a lower standard deviation while being better in all 3 stats (mean median and mode). He is more consistent and high scoring in the playoffs. Consistency is actually harder to maintain in the playoffs and that is what was surprising look at the data, also a smaller sample size and still more consistency.

If you want to do a breakdown on how he PLAYS in the playoffs that is a different discussion and we should save that for another thread.

[dhsilv]

Sure. Lebron has 13-14 40 point games in the playoffs.
Nobody since Jordan retired from the Bulls has more.
Not even Shaq.
Kobe most certainly doesn't despite routinely taking shot after il advised shot in an attempt to rack up points.

The comparison was between the playoffs and regular season for just Kobe. Until we establish there's a disconnect there, the secondary question is not important.

[dhsilv]

Why are you scared?

Are you 8 years old?

here let me explain this in math.

R=Pw*r*-Pd-Pl*r

Pw=probability win
Pl=probability loss
Pd=probability default

So lets say we bet a say a small 1,000 bucks on this.

odds of me winning 100%. Odds of you defaulting 100%.

1*1000*-1-0=0

So what's my upside?

[Mr Feeny]

The finals for Kobe have generally been lesser series over his career than the west finals.

The point was that Kobe's scoring has a lower standard deviation while being better in all 3 stats (mean median and mode). He is more consistent and high scoring in the playoffs. Consistency is actually harder to maintain in the playoffs and that is what was surprising look at the data, also a smaller sample size and still more consistency.

If you want to do a breakdown on how he PLAYS in the playoffs that is a different discussion and we should save that for another thread.

Standard deviation? Are you winding me up?

We are comparing scoring games. The original poster asked why Kobe didn't have scoring outbursts in the playoffs like he did in the regular season.
Everyone pointed out that Kobe just wasn't a good enough scorer to do it in terms playoffs like some all time greats such as Jordan or lebron.

His shooting percentages dropped when the stakes were higher.
In the most important games, elimination games, he's a 21 ppg scorer on 39%fg.
In the finals (when pressure is at its highesy) he's at 40%

Most all time greats shoot better. 11 players averaged higher ppg than him both in the regular season despite the fact that he chucks away with impunity.

[Mr Feeny]

Are you 8 years old?

here let me explain this in math.

R=Pw*r*-Pd-Pl*r

Pw=probability win
Pl=probability loss
Pd=probability default

So lets say we bet a say a small 1,000 bucks on this.

odds of me winning 100%. Odds of you defaulting 100%.

1*1000*-1-0=0

So what's my upside?

You sound like you just took a stats course for 10 year olds.
"Median" "mode" "probability"
"Let's look at the median I tells you"

Do you need us to teach you statistics?

[dhsilv]

Standard deviation? Are you winding me up?

We are comparing scoring games. The original poster asked why Kobe didn't have scoring outbursts in the playoffs like he did in the regular season.
Everyone pointed out that Kobe just wasn't a good enough scorer to do it in terms playoffs like some all time greats such as Jordan or lebron.

His shooting percentages dropped when the stakes were higher.
In the most important games, elimination games, he's a 21 ppg scorer on 39%fg.
In the finals (when pressure is at its highesy) he's at 40%

Most all time greats shoot better. 11 players averaged higher ppg than him both in the regular season despite the fact that he chucks away with impunity.


The point I was making is that he's played over 1,300 regular season games. One should assume he will have more high scoring games in a sample size that large than he would in a sample size of 220.

More importantly 16 of Kobe's 25 point games and 55 of Kobe's 122 40 point games came in 3 seasons where he played a total of 12 playoff games. Now we can add color here and insult kobe, but the reality is during his peak offensive output years he did not have a team that was going to make deep playoff runs.

The field goal shit can be saved for another thread. I'll gladly join you in insulting and roasting kobe who is by far one of my least liked players ever, but this thread asked a very clear question about differences in stats between the playoffs and regular season which isn't imo being fairly stated here. If you have NOTHING to add to that discussion, please kindly make a new thread to discuss your interests here.

[dhsilv]

You sound like you just took a stats course for 10 year olds.
"Median" "mode" "probability"
"Let's look at the median I tells you"

Do you need us to teach you statistics?

Man, I'm drinking still from last night and I have zero interest in doing anything complex. yet my addition to this thread is actually of value, you're just commenting for the sake of commenting.

[Mr Feeny]

The point I was making is that he's played over 1,300 regular season games. One should assume he will have more high scoring games in a sample size that large than he would in a sample size of 220.

More importantly 16 of Kobe's 25 point games and 55 of Kobe's 122 40 point games came in 3 seasons where he played a total of 12 playoff games. Now we can add color here and insult kobe, but the reality is during his peak offensive output years he did not have a team that was going to make deep playoff runs.

The field goal shit can be saved for another thread. I'll gladly join you in insulting and roasting kobe who is by far one of my least liked players ever, but this thread asked a very clear question about differences in stats between the playoffs and regular season which isn't imo being fairly stated here. If you have NOTHING to add to that discussion, please kindly make a new thread to discuss your interests here.

You seem to be rambling on and on without making a single coherent point.
You asked for proof that Lebron had higher scoring outbursts and were told that Lebron has the most 40 point playoff games since Jordan. You conveniently ignored that.

Field goal "shit" is anything but. We are discussing scoring here. We need to factor efficiency. If someone takes 50 shots a game and averages 28 ppg while another needs 20 shots a game to get 27, no sane human being is raving about the first being a better scorer.

If this is too complicated for you, please inform me and I'll slow down for you.

[Mr Feeny]

Man, I'm drinking still from last night and I have zero interest in doing anything complex. yet my addition to this thread is actually of value, you're just commenting for the sake of commenting.

We can tell. No sober human is going to ramble endlessly about "mode" when talking about scoring.
Get yourself some sleep and we'll discuss basketball when your not drunk.

[dhsilv]

You seem to be rambling on and on without making a single coherent point.
You asked for proof that Lebron had higher scoring outbursts and were told that Lebron has the most 40 point playoff games since Jordan. You conveniently ignored that.

Field goal "shit" is anything but. We are discussing scoring here. We need to factor efficiency. If someone takes 50 shots a game and averages 28 ppg while another needs 20 shots a game to get 27, no sane human being is raving about the first being a better scorer.

If this is too complicated for you, please inform me and I'll slow down for you.

I never asked for anything about lebron....

[dhsilv]

We can tell. No sober human is going to ramble endlessly about "mode" when talking about scoring.
Get yourself some sleep and we'll discuss basketball when your not drunk.

Who said I'm drunk? Sadly I need more to get there, but rambling about mode? I've not discussed the impact of mode here once.

The fact mode is higher in the playoffs is interesting, but not really telling or meaningful.

[Im Still Ballin]

Do you have stats to back this up?
aj1987 has got the stats

[LAZERUSS]

No doubt Kobe struggled in his Finals, and particularly key games in them...BUT, he just DESTROYED the great Spurs teams from '01 to '04, and single-handedly annihilated Bowen and Duncan in '08.

[Im Still Ballin]

Helps having Shaq underneath the basket

[LAZERUSS]

Helps having Shaq underneath the basket

Shaq owes at least two of his rings to Kobe carrying LA in the WCF's.

Oh, and Shaq was not on Kobe's '08 team, in which Bryant was blowing past Bowen, and then scoring at the rim against Duncan.

[Mr Feeny]

No doubt Kobe struggled in his Finals, and particularly key games in them...BUT, he just DESTROYED the great Spurs teams from '01 to '04, and single-handedly annihilated Bowen and Duncan in '08.

And yet struggled on the highest stage, the finals.
Shaq was putting up 38 and 18 while Kobe was putting up 15 and 4 on 36% at times.

Similar to Wilt in this regard. They choked in the finals. Lebron is a better finals player than both.

[LAZERUSS]

And yet struggled on the highest stage, the finals.
Shaq was putting up 38 and 18 while Kobe was putting up 15 and 4 on 36% at times.

Similar to Wilt in this regard. They choked in the finals. Lebron is a better finals player than both.

Shaq's numbers dropped considerably against the Robinson-led Spurs; and MJ's scoring and FG% dropped considerably against the Bad Boys. Oh, and a peak KAJ's fell off the cliff in his post-season series against Thurmond and Wilt. How come? How come those three couldn't step up against the GOATs?

And you won't find a Finals in which Chamberlain shot 39% from the field, either. Or a Finals in which his team was swept. all while shooting 36% from the floor.

Have to remove MJ, Lebron, KAJ, and Shaq from any GOAT consideration now. All choked.

[LAZERUSS]

Incidently, a past-his-prime, 34-35 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee, and by virtually accounts of those that watched them play, had Wilt outplaying a peak Kareem in their two post-season H2H's. And in their two series-clinching games, KAJ shot 23-60 from the floor (.383), while Wilt shot 18-33 (.545.)

Evidently KAJ was a massive choker.

[34-24 Footwork]

Wow. Kobe Bryant is OFFICIALLY RETIRED and threads, that are most negative, are still popping up about him.

The OP is validating Kobe's greatness.

[Mr Feeny]

Shaq's numbers dropped considerably against the Robinson-led Spurs; and MJ's scoring and FG% dropped considerably against the Bad Boys. Oh, and a peak KAJ's fell off the cliff in his post-season series against Thurmond and Wilt. How come? How come those three couldn't step up against the GOATs?

And you won't find a Finals in which Chamberlain shot 39% from the field, either. Or a Finals in which his team was swept. all while shooting 36% from the floor.

Have to remove MJ, Lebron, KAJ, and Shaq from any GOAT consideration now. All choked.

Yet in the highest stage, Kobe and Wilt are the biggest chokers :lebronamazed:

LeBron 26 ppg
Wilt 18 ppg
Kobe 40%fg

In finals:applause:

[34-24 Footwork]

Additionally, this thread is driven by Emotion. The majority of the posts in this thread can be replaced with angry emojis while getting the same points across :lol :lol

[ballinhun8]

Lebron has 13 and Kobe has 12 40+ PT games in history.

Don't see a big difference there.



And the offense was never held up by Kobe ball to the extent of him having the ball 75% of the time.