Kobe's Final Game Made Him the GOAT...

[Ass Dan]

...ballhog in the history of this game, no one will ever hold the chucker mantra the way Kobe clutched it for 20 years.

he truly is the Michael Jordan of ballhogs.

Pretty much untouchable at this point, probably more secure than MJ's GOAT status.

[Dray n Klay]

Agreed, dude is a cancer

[Mr Feeny]

Yes. It was as if he was intent on destroying his legacy.
After 20 years of basketball, he showed that in end, he still thought it was all about him.

Basketball is a team sport.
This guy never got the hang of it. In 20 years. Never figured it out.

[fiddy]

Agreed, dude is a cancer
5>2

[Mr Feeny]

5>2

Don't know what that has to do with Kobe being a horrific player when the stakes are high.

39% elimination games
40% finals
44.7% career

Mmkthxbye

[LAZERUSS]

Don't know what that has to do with Kobe being a horrific player when the stakes are high.

39% elimination games
40% finals
44.7% career

Mmkthxbye

Interesting how you just throw 5 rings into the garbage, but rings are the ONLY argument that you can use against Chamberlain. A Wilt who just crushed Russell and his Celtics in his post-season career.

[Im Still Ballin]

Christian Samuelsini.

[LAZERUSS]

Yes. It was as if he was intent on destroying his legacy.
After 20 years of basketball, he showed that in end, he still thought it was all about him.

Basketball is a team sport.
This guy never got the hang of it. In 20 years. Never figured it out.

So you agree that Chamberlain was light years better than Russell, right?

[ShawkFactory]

Don't make dumb threads.

I mean...I guess you can if it makes you happy.

[Mr Feeny]

Interesting how you just throw 5 rings into the garbage, but rings are the ONLY argument that you can use against Chamberlain. A Wilt who just crushed Russell and his Celtics in his post-season career.

No. Wilt was a ballhog just like kobe. Individually, Lebron is better than both.

Try again. Thanks

[LAZERUSS]

No. Wilt was a ballhog just like kobe. Individually, Lebron is better than both.

Try again. Thanks

There is nothing in Lebron's resume that makes him better than Chamberlain. ZERO.

[ShawkFactory]

So you agree that Chamberlain was light years better than Russell, right?
He wasn't light years better. I never watched either, and I have Wilt above on my top 10 list but don't be a fool.

It's not a coincidence that Russell won on every level.

San-fvcking-frisco won back-to-back titles while he was there.

He was a winner, and a great damn player. I've heard that from most of the people old enough to have watched him. Granted, most weren't bitter wilt fans (though wilt was my dads favorite player, he still recognizes Russell's mind and ability as a player and teammate).

[Mr Feeny]

There is nothing in Lebron's resume that makes him better than Chamberlain. ZERO.

Sorry to break this down to you but Lebron is 2nd all time in PER and 1st in vorp if I'm not mistaken.

He's miles better than the 18 ppg finals scorer whom you idolise.
Comparing them is an insult to Lebron.

[LAZERUSS]

Sorry to break this down to you but Lebron is 2nd all time in PER and 1st in vorp if I'm not mistaken.

He's miles better than the 18 ppg finals scorer whom you idolise.
Comparing them is an insult to Lebron.

Find me a Finals in which Chamberlain shot 39% from the floor, and then another in which his team was swept while shooting 36% from the floor.

Oh, and find me just one Finals in which Lebron averaged 20+ rpg, much less six.

[Mr Feeny]

Find me a Finals in which Chamberlain shot 39% from the floor, and then another in which his team was swept while shooting 36% from the floor.

Oh, and find me just one Finals in which Lebron averaged 20+ rpg, much less six.find me a finals where one player lead both teams in all 5 categories. You can't because it's never been done before :lebronamazed:

LeBron in finals 26 ppg.
Wilt in finals 18 ppg

Mmkthxbye

[LAZERUSS]

find me a finals where one player lead both teams in all 5 categories. You can't because it's never been done before :lebronamazed:

LeBron in finals 26 ppg.
Wilt in finals 18 ppg

Mmkthxbye

Chamberlain....more dominant with 18 ppg, than Lebron with 26 ppg.

Thanks for playing.

[3ball]

.
Comparison of MJ & Kobe as 1st Options:


DRtg, PPG and Pace were all lower during Jordan's 2nd three-peat (1996-1998) than Kobe's championship years without Shaq (2008-2010), in both regular season and playoffs:



League-Wide DRtg in REGULAR SEASON:


1996: 107.6
1997: 106.7
1998: 105.0

2008: 107.5
2009: 108.3
2010: 107.6

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html



League-Wide DRtg in PLAYOFFS (each year is link to source):

1996 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
1997 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1997.html#all_misc_stats): 106.8
1998 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998.html#all_misc_stats): 105.6

2008 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
2009 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2009.html#all_misc_stats): 107.7
2010 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2010.html#all_misc_stats): 108.6



Yet Jordan still had better stats:



JORDAN 1996-1998 REG SEASON:. 29.6 ppg.. 48.2% fg.. 2 MVP
BRYANT 2008-2010 REG SEASON:. 27.4 ppg.. 46.1% fg.. 1 MVP


JORDAN 1996-1998 PLAYOFFS:. 31.4 ppg.. 45.9% fg
BRYANT 2008-2010 PLAYOFFS:. 29.8 ppg.. 46.4% fg


JORDAN 1996-1998 FINALS:. 31.1 ppg.. 43.4% fg.. 3 championships.. 3 FMVP's
BRYANT 2008-2010 FINALS:. 29.2 ppg.. 41.3% fg.. 2 championships.. 2 FMVP's


Source: basketball-reference.com



Notice that MJ's efficiency was equal or greater, even though Kobe's efficiency was unfairly boosted by carrying a SMALLER LOAD:



............PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR


.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
KOBE 2009....... 32.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 35.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
KOBE 2010....... 32.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 37.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 38.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 37.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)




CLIFFS: At 33-35 years old, MJ had better stats against better defenses than 29-31 year-old Kobe, while also carrying a larger load.. Now imagine if we looked at Jordan's prime - yikes - it's amazing how much better Jordan was than Kobe.

[AlphaWolf24]

.
Comparison of MJ & Kobe as 1st Options:


DRtg, PPG and Pace were all lower during Jordan's 2nd three-peat (1996-1998) than Kobe's championship years without Shaq (2008-2010), in both regular season and playoffs:



League-Wide DRtg in REGULAR SEASON:


1996: 107.6
1997: 106.7
1998: 105.0

2008: 107.5
2009: 108.3
2010: 107.6

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html



League-Wide DRtg in PLAYOFFS (each year is link to source):

1996 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1996.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
1997 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1997.html#all_misc_stats): 106.8
1998 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1998.html#all_misc_stats): 105.6

2008 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008.html#all_misc_stats): 107.4
2009 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2009.html#all_misc_stats): 107.7
2010 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2010.html#all_misc_stats): 108.6



Yet Jordan still had better stats:



JORDAN 1996-1998 REG SEASON:. 29.6 ppg.. 48.2% fg.. 2 MVP
BRYANT 2008-2010 REG SEASON:. 27.4 ppg.. 46.1% fg.. 1 MVP


JORDAN 1996-1998 PLAYOFFS:. 31.4 ppg.. 45.9% fg
BRYANT 2008-2010 PLAYOFFS:. 29.8 ppg.. 46.4% fg


JORDAN 1996-1998 FINALS:. 31.1 ppg.. 43.4% fg.. 3 championships.. 3 FMVP's
BRYANT 2008-2010 FINALS:. 29.2 ppg.. 41.3% fg.. 2 championships.. 2 FMVP's


Source: basketball-reference.com



Notice that MJ's efficiency was equal or greater, even though Kobe's efficiency was unfairly boosted by carrying a SMALLER LOAD:



............PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR


.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
KOBE 2009....... 32.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 35.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
KOBE 2010....... 32.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 37.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 38.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 37.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)




CLIFFS: At 33-35 years old, MJ had better stats against better defenses than 29-31 year-old Kobe, while also carrying a larger load.. Now imagine if we looked at Jordan's prime - yikes - it's amazing how much better Jordan was than Kobe.


meh....marginal stat difference ......at best


and we ( those that actually watched both players career) don't need a color coordinated spread sheet to know that MJ was slightly better.

the fact is...nearly everyone agrees....Kobe and MJ were similar players with similar results.

Kobe captured the imagination of the fans like MJ did in his day.....Kobe could do certain things better then MJ ...especially on the offensive end.....especially when Kobe caught fire....that's why so many people loved to watch him shoot!

and MJ could do certain things better then Kobe....( nothing either guy did would show up on your color coordinated spread sheets BTW)

recap: no one is saying Kobe was the more dominate player.....he was the more asthetically pleasing player to alot of fans though....



move along..

[3ball]

meh....marginal stat difference ......at best



Jordan's stats and efficiency were better even though he was 4-5 years older and carried a MUCH bigger load - this is not a "marginal" difference:



............PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR


.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
KOBE 2009....... 32.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 35.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
KOBE 2010....... 32.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 37.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 38.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 37.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)

[DoctorP]

Kobe's a high volume guy

[Funktion]

Kobe commerical with Otis Redding song is funny shit. :lol