put PEAK MJ instead of harden on the rockets

[swagga]

How do they fare against GSW?

[kentatm]

they wouldn't have even been the 8th seed w/MJ.

no way in hell peak MJ let's this team be so lazy on D.

but assuming they still meet up, GS would have the overall edge in talent but MJ takes it to at least 6 or 7 and gives them a good shot at winning. (if Curry misses time Houston would absolutely win)

[Gileraracer]

MJ would have to throw some hands to this lazy ass nigguz to convince them to play some D

[swagga]

MJ would have to throw some hands to this lazy ass nigguz to convince them to play some D

I don't think so. They got players who can actually D up (beverly, dwight, ariza, jones, brewer, smith), but I think they are all fed up of playing with harden. When you don't touch the ball for minutes and the same guy that is iso-chucking isn't playing ANY defense you check out, no matter how pro you are. As crazy as it may sound howard is an ok pro compared to harden, at least he defends and shoots a high percentage without ballhogging.

I think if the rockets started the season with peak MJ they'd be real contenders playing tough D.

real talk, if they'd give peak MJ harden's fouls he'd drop 40+ a game.

[riseagainst]

MJ guarding Klay would be a nightmare for Klay.

[swagga]

MJ guarding Klay would be a nightmare for Klay.

in other news researchers finally prove that the sky is indeed blue.

MJ in today's perimeter league, touch fouls and no defense. Talk about domination.

[livingby3's]

inb4 Rockets still have no Pippen

[ImKobe]

inb4 Rockets still have no Pippen

They don't need one with a peak MJ, who can beat GSW playing Lebron ball

he has the spot-up 3pt shooters in Ariza, Beverly, Terry, Smith, Motejunas

has Dwight to lob the ball inside to

peak MJ averaged 34 ppg 7 apg for his 3-peat run in the POs.

[AlphaWolf24]

This version of Dwight reminds me of Kwame Brown....

Peak MJ with Fright and crew might win a few games ......

but they still aint beating this warriors team.

[ImKobe]

This version of Dwight reminds me of Kwame Brown....

Peak MJ with Fright and crew might win a few games ......

but they still aint beating this warriors team.

Kwame couldn't score, rebound, defend the rim, set screens

Dwight can do a lot of things

[ClipperRevival]

It's literally cringe worthy how little Harden cares about defense. Maybe it's the coaching he received growing up that was bad and he never got the memo that D is just as important as O. No way could I play with a leader who doesn't give a sh*t about playing D. You just can't win that way. Everyone else on the team will follow suit.

[plowking]

but assuming they still meet up, GS would have the overall edge in talent but MJ takes it to at least 6 or 7 and gives them a good shot at winning. (if Curry misses time Houston would absolutely win)

Ah they myth continues.

MJ was some beast who automatically won you games no matter what line up you insert him into. Just like how he took games off those Celtics when he dropped 63, right?

MJ's "legend" is growing quicker than Wilt's ever did.

[ClipperRevival]

As for the question, I think the Rockets would have a shot at winning the series. Replacing a non-D playing flopper with the GOAT in this era of no physicality allowed, no hand checking and wide open spacing to attack the basket, MJ would literally have a field day. The guy became the GOAT rim attacker in probably the toughest era ever to attack the rim with terrible spacing and tons of physicality allowed. MJ could also set guys up when surrounded by shooters.

And his D would inspire the rest of his teammates. Heck, just his will would. All of MJ's past teammates talk about how much will/determination he had and that rubbed off on everybody.

[ClipperRevival]

Ah they myth continues.

MJ was some beast who automatically won you games no matter what line up you insert him into. Just like how he took games off those Celtics when he dropped 63, right?

MJ's "legend" is growing quicker than Wilt's ever did.

You mean the 67 win Celtics versus the 30 win Bulls in 1986? Yeah, I'm sure he was supposed to cover THAT much disparity in talent. Dude averaged 44 freaken PPG against maybe the GOAT team. He did his part. But I'm sure you have to find some flaw.

And there is no myth to MJ. Everything he did is on film.

[plowking]

You mean the 67 win Celtics versus the 30 win Bulls in 1986? Yeah, I'm sure he was supposed to cover THAT much disparity in talent. Dude averaged 44 freaken PPG against maybe the GOAT team. He did his part. But I'm sure you have to find some flaw.

And there is no myth to MJ. Everything he did is on film.

He'd get swept on the Rockets. Every mathematical probability would point towards a 4 game sweep rather than 6 or 7 games.

There are plenty of MJ myths, hence why it is so funny watching some of you post the bullshit you do as if we don't have the film readily available to us. :oldlol:

[FKAri]

Warriors still win the series. MJ's not going to solve team cohesion and terrible team defense which is the Rockets main flaw. His effort on D will inspire his teammates to try harder compared to Harden but team defense takes a long time to fix. You can have great individual defenders (like the Rockets do) but if they don't know when to show, switch, etc they won't be effective.

Plus there's no hand checking and thus perimeter defenders can't really have the kind of game impact MJ is capable of having defensively. [what a convoluted sentence - too lazy to reword]

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

MJ on this Rockets team, in his prime, where he was incredible on both ends? They take Golden State to 5 or 6 games.

Mike would run roughshod on a team that couldn't handcheck him, thoroughly taking advantage of today's soft rules. He would LIVE on the line.

Unfortunately, Dwight is still Dwight.

[ClipperRevival]

He'd get swept on the Rockets. Every mathematical probability would point towards a 4 game sweep rather than 6 or 7 games.

There are plenty of MJ myths, hence why it is so funny watching some of you post the bullshit you do as if we don't have the film readily available to us. :oldlol:

The people who sh&t on MJ for losing early in his career are simply ignorant of the situation. His teams were the 8th seeds and sometimes weren't even .500 teams and he had to face GOAT level to elite teams in the 80's in the Bucks (very underrated and talented team), Celtics and Pistons.

But yeah, let's keep saying, "1-9" without proper context. That's expected. :rolleyes:

[ClipperRevival]

Take a look at the Bull's record and who they faced. Actually, MJ's teams during the famous 1-9 run won 38, 30 and 40 games. So they weren't even a .500 team and were facing elite to GOAT level teams. :oldlol: But that 1-9 doe.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394831

[tpols]

Take a look at the Bull's record and who they faced. Actually, MJ's teams during the famous 1-9 run won 38, 30 and 40 games. So they weren't even a .500 team and were facing elite to GOAT level teams. :oldlol: But that 1-9 doe.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394831

the rockets were only a .500 team this year as well, and the warriors won more than any team mj ever faced when he was going 1-9 so ...

[ClipperRevival]

the rockets were only a .500 team this year as well, and the warriors won more than any team mj ever faced when he was going 1-9 so ...

But this Rockets team clearly underachieved. They were the 2nd seed in the West last year. And a lot of that has to do with their leader laying eggs on one end and his teammates seeing it and it rubs off on them too. If you play, you know that certain things can be contagious, like laziness or effort or sharing the ball or one guy ball hogging. All of these factors have a positive or negative effect.

MJ's teams before Pip simply sucked. They had no talent. Therein lies the difference.

[tpols]

But this Rockets team clearly underachieved. They were the 2nd seed in the West last year. And a lot of that has to do with their leader laying eggs on one end and his teammates seeing it and it rubs off on them too. If you play, you know that certain things can be contagious, like laziness or effort or sharing the ball or one guy ball hogging. All of these factors have a positive or negative effect.

MJ's teams before Pip simply sucked. They had no talent. Therein lies the difference.

this rocket team also has no talent .. the only difference between this years and last was Harden was playing much better. You know who the leading scorers besides him were? Trevor ariza, montejiunas and corey brewer. in 20 years you'll have no idea who those guys were.



Who is talented on this rocket team right now? Please dont say dwight.. he would put mj through a wall if he tried to step to him. DH isnt exactly the type to take constructive (or destructive) criticism

[ClipperRevival]

this rocket team also has no talent .. the only difference between this years and last was Harden was playing much better. You know who the leading scorers besides him were? Trevor ariza, montejiunas and corey brewer. in 20 years you'll have no idea who those guys were.



Who is talented on this rocket team right now? Please dont say dwight.. he would put mj through a wall if he tried to step to him. DH isnt exactly the type to take constructive (or destructive) criticism

The stats suggest otherwise.

2015-16: 29.0 PPG, 7.5 APG, 6.1 RPG, 25.3 PER
2014-15: 27.4 PPG, 6.8 APG, 5.5 RPG, 26.7 PER

On paper, they are very similar seasons. Although I must admit his D this year is probably worse than last year.

[tpols]

The stats suggest otherwise.

2015-16: 29.0 PPG, 7.5 APG, 6.1 RPG, 25.3 PER
2014-15: 27.4 PPG, 6.8 APG, 5.5 RPG, 26.7 PER

On paper, they are very similar seasons. Although I must admit his D this year is probably worse than last year.

stat dont tell he story bro.. all the stuff you just said about attitude and effort and contagious was the difference

[Fire Colangelo]

As for the question, I think the Rockets would have a shot at winning the series. Replacing a non-D playing flopper with the GOAT in this era of no physicality allowed, no hand checking and wide open spacing to attack the basket, MJ would literally have a field day. The guy became the GOAT rim attacker in probably the toughest era ever to attack the rim with terrible spacing and tons of physicality allowed. MJ could also set guys up when surrounded by shooters.

And his D would inspire the rest of his teammates. Heck, just his will would. All of MJ's past teammates talk about how much will/determination he had and that rubbed off on everybody.

:roll: :roll:

You can't be serious

[senelcoolidge]

The Rockets are one dumbass team, but I know MJ alone would make them into a disciplined group or they would rot on the bench. I think an MJ 2015-16 Rockets could scare the Warriors. Not win the series but make it a longer series. MJ would be so dominate on both sides.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

MJ on this Rockets team, in his prime, where he was incredible on both ends? They take Golden State to 5 or 6 games.

Mike would run roughshod on a team that couldn't handcheck him, thoroughly taking advantage of today's soft rules. He would LIVE on the line.

Unfortunately, Dwight is still Dwight.

You know...the more I think about it, the likelihood of them having a CLOSE 6 game series just seems...right.

MJ and Bev in the backcourt with Dwight protecting the middle? Would be a devastating trio if the big man decided to show up. From an individual perspective, Mike vs Steph would be hero ball at its absolute finest.

[Quickening]

Just lol at people thinking MJ whose mediocre teams got routinely destroyed (1-9) would somehow turn an 8th seed into an outfit that beats argubaly the best team ever :lol :roll:

This is up there with wilt stans talking about mountain lions, and 60 inch verticals etc :lol

[HoopologyPhD]

Rockets couldn't beat their own meat if you gave them lube and porno. You could take Curry off the W's and give the current Rockets MJ and they would still lose with their terrible roster. I am no fan of the Warriors but it was quite glorious to watch them utterly dismantle the Rockets and expose James Haren as being a manufactured superstar.

I stand by what I said in the earlier thread about this.

[AirFederer]

Ring :pimp:

[Dr Hawk]

If you put the GOAT instead of Haren right NOW, Rockets win 4-2.

They also get the ring

[FKAri]

If you put the GOAT instead of Haren right NOW, Rockets win 4-2.

They also get the ring
This poster believes MJ was a Marvel superhero :lol

[Straight_Ballin]

This poster believes MJ was a Marvel superhero :lol

No, he believes that when looking at a hypothetical situation, you take the data that you are given and based on that data, you make the best educated guess possible.

MJ when in the finals never lost.
This occurred on 6 different occasions.

[Quickening]

No, he believes that when looking at a hypothetical situation, you take the data that you are given and based on that data, you make the best educated guess possible.

MJ when in the finals never lost.
This occurred on 6 different occasions.

Cool.... how many times did he lose in the first round? Because thats what we're talking about, the first round against GSW, a team who won 73 games and averaged 115 ppg. How many teams did MJ beat who had that resume? :lol :roll:

[FKAri]

No, he believes that when looking at a hypothetical situation, you take the data that you are given and based on that data, you make the best educated guess possible.

MJ when in the finals never lost.
This occurred on 6 different occasions.
Except we aren't talking about the finals. We're putting MJ on the Rockets starting in g3 of a first round series where theyre down 2 to a 73 win team. On a dysfunctional team like the Rockets no less, whose problems aren't fixed by MJ's strengths.

[GrapeApe]

Peak MJ gets at least one game at home. Nobody is sweeping peak MJ imo. He'd have a game where he completely dominates on both ends and elevates his teammates. I think the Warriors most likely win 4-1. I don't think the Rockets/MJ would win at GS and I don't think GS would lose 2 in a row. I'll say MJ would get game 3 in Houston.

[Dragonyeuw]

They'd lose 4-1. MJ's individual greatness would get them a game, but not enough firepower against this Warriors team. I think Dwight would play better with MJ than Harden, though.

[Bankaii]

With every passing day MJ stans create a new myth about their idol.
So MJ by sheer will is going to turn a bad defensive team into a top tier defense?:oldlol:

Are we going to just ignore that MJ routinely got his ass whooped by GOAT tier teams when he had subpar teammates? But now all of a sudden he's able to take out arguably the GOAT team.:oldlol:

Rockets win 1 game is Curry plays the entire series. Stop the bullshit.

[Foster5k]

With today's rules, MJ would be unstoppable. That being said, Rockets still suck. Jordan would basically have to win 1vs5. In today's NBA, Jordan is said to be able to average 50 a game(As Phil Jackson stated). Also, we all know his averages amazingly go up in the playoffs. So, I'll boost that 50 to 60-65 a game.

If any other Rocket could do anything on offense/defense, Jordan takes Golden State to game 7.

So, to me, it's a toss up, because anything can happen in a game 7. However, if Jordan is in a do or die game 7, no sane person is betting against him.

I got the Rockets with peak Jordan winning this series in 7 games.(Also, Curry would be injured in game 2 so that's automatic win for Jordan.)

[Dragonyeuw]

With today's rules, MJ would be unstoppable. That being said, Rockets still suck. Jordan would basically have to win 1vs5. In today's NBA, Jordan is said to be able to average 50 a game(As Phil Jackson stated). Also, we all know his averages amazingly go up in the playoffs. So, I'll boost that 50 to 60-65 a game.

If any other Rocket could do anything on offense/defense, Jordan takes Golden State to game 7.

So, to me, it's a toss up, because anything can happen in a game 7. However, if Jordan is in a do or die game 7, no sane person is betting against him.

I got the Rockets with peak Jordan winning this series in 7 games.(Also, Curry would be injured in game 2 so that's automatic win for Jordan.)


Brah... I'm an admitted MJ stan, but please tell me this is sarcasm.

[FKAri]

Brah... I'm an admitted MJ stan, but please tell me this is sarcasm.
That's still not as bad as this BS:

If you put the GOAT instead of Haren right NOW, Rockets win 4-2.

They also get the ring

[Bankaii]

That's still not as bad as this BS:
Both those guys are shit posters, I wouldn't take their posts seriously.

The only MJ stans on here dumb enough to think MJ would win more than 2 games are 3Ball and apparently ClippersRevival.

[oarabbus]

MJ on these Rockets?

It'd be GSW in 6 instead of in 5. Rockets will probably pull out a home game barely.

[wordsRweapons]

rockets with Harden will win one at least.

peak jordan makes the series a coinflip :confusedshrug:

[plowking]

I think most of us on here are sick of hearing about MJ's will to win and mentality, and how it manufactures wins on its own. It doesn't, and it isn't something that overcomes a far better team.

It is almost as if people forget that MJ had the most talented roster ever assembled during the second half of his career. People wouldn't be able to comprehend a team of Lebron/Kawhi/Drummond on the same team these days with prime Lamar Odom (Toni Kukoc) coming off the bench. Add in Korver (Kerr) off the bench, just so you have the highest % 3 point guy on your team too.

[Papaya Petee]

With today's rules, MJ would be unstoppable. That being said, Rockets still suck. Jordan would basically have to win 1vs5. In today's NBA, Jordan is said to be able to average 50 a game(As Phil Jackson stated). Also, we all know his averages amazingly go up in the playoffs. So, I'll boost that 50 to 60-65 a game.

If any other Rocket could do anything on offense/defense, Jordan takes Golden State to game 7.

So, to me, it's a toss up, because anything can happen in a game 7. However, if Jordan is in a do or die game 7, no sane person is betting against him.

I got the Rockets with peak Jordan winning this series in 7 games.(Also, Curry would be injured in game 2 so that's automatic win for Jordan.)
:roll: :roll: :roll: seek mental help bro, fast.

[GrapeApe]

I think most of us on here are sick of hearing about MJ's will to win and mentality, and how it manufactures wins on its own. It doesn't, and it isn't something that overcomes a far better team.

It is almost as if people forget that MJ had the most talented roster ever assembled during the second half of his career. People wouldn't be able to comprehend a team of Lebron/Kawhi/Drummond on the same team these days with prime Lamar Odom (Toni Kukoc) coming off the bench. Add in Korver (Kerr) off the bench, just so you have the highest % 3 point guy on your team too.

While I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, I'm assuming this thread is referring to first 3-peat Jordan. That is what most people consider his peak, and those teams weren't as strong top to bottom as the '96-'98 teams. The '91-'93 Bulls were obviously strong teams, but they won titles primarily due to Jordan's greatness.

[FKAri]

I think most of us on here are sick of hearing about MJ's will to win and mentality, and how it manufactures wins on its own. It doesn't, and it isn't something that overcomes a far better team.

It is almost as if people forget that MJ had the most talented roster ever assembled during the second half of his career. People wouldn't be able to comprehend a team of Lebron/Kawhi/Drummond on the same team these days with prime Lamar Odom (Toni Kukoc) coming off the bench. Add in Korver (Kerr) off the bench, just so you have the highest % 3 point guy on your team too.
Exactly. This isn't DBZ. You're not going to transcend into anything despite what sports tries to instill in its fans and kids. Mental strength and will to win will simply allow you to play to your best.

And the problem with this Rockets team is on the defensive end where MJ alone simply cannot turn it around especially in this no touching era (vs the Warriors no less).

[Fire Colangelo]

It's hilarious some MJ stans actually believe in their own nonesense.

[hold this L]

MJ stans are almost as dumb as Lebron stans :facepalm

[OldSchoolBBall]

It is almost as if people forget that MJ had the most talented roster ever assembled during the second half of his career.

Hysterical that anyone actually believes this. There are at least a half dozen teams, probably as many as 10, who were more talented. Including this year's Warriors.

Prime (1991 or '92) Jorddan gets them 1-2 games on the Rockets. About a 50% chance of it going 6 and 50% of it going 5.

[nnn123]

For the people pointing out that Jordan get swept in the playoffs the first couple of years of his career - that's a f****n stupid argument. 86 Jordan wasn't remotely close to peak Jordan as an overall player.

"Oh but he scored 63 points!"

The whole 63 point game is a bit overrated to begin with - if anything, the reason it got so much attention was because no one expected a sophomore in the league who missed 60 games in the regular season to explode like that against such a dominant team. The 'shock' factor made the game so memorable.

I'm not saying Jordan on the Rockets would beat this Warriors team, but he would definitely make things much more interesting. You can't use 86/87 Jordan's inability to get out of the first round as logical proof of anything, given the full context.

[CuterThanRubio]

Hypothetical threads should be instantly deleted, that is what I would do if I was a mod here.

You can't win with this version of Dwight, that goes without saying!

The 96 Bulls would have trouble with a healthy 16 Warriors team, I don't think adding prime MJ would make a difference no matter what team you placed him on, not in today's league.

[Smook A.]

Peak MJ on the Rockets? :eek:

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xtf1/t51.2885-15/s320x320/e15/12393856_1674688096151717_1487144123_n.jpg

[ClipperRevival]

For the people pointing out that Jordan get swept in the playoffs the first couple of years of his career - that's a f****n stupid argument. 86 Jordan wasn't remotely close to peak Jordan as an overall player.

"Oh but he scored 63 points!"

The whole 63 point game is a bit overrated to begin with - if anything, the reason it got so much attention was because no one expected a sophomore in the league who missed 60 games in the regular season to explode like that against such a dominant team. The 'shock' factor made the game so memorable.

I'm not saying Jordan on the Rockets would beat this Warriors team, but he would definitely make things much more interesting. You can't use 86/87 Jordan's inability to get out of the first round as logical proof of anything, given the full context.

Yup. MJ was just 23 at the time. 23! He was a pup and not close to being the complete player he became later in his career when he knew how to WIN. Peak MJ from 1990-1993 was a devastating two way force who was literally able to impose his will on the game on both ends.

[riseagainst]

MJ guarding Klay or Curry? Either way they'll drop 50 on him.

[ClipperRevival]

stat dont tell he story bro.. all the stuff you just said about attitude and effort and contagious was the difference

Yeah, but you said they had no talent. And I disagree. When you have sh't leadership from your head coach and superstar, you will underachieve. With MJ leading the charge, their team looks very different. First defensively, MJ along with Ariza, Brewer and Smith bring a ton of length/athleticism at the perimeter. And MJ whips Howard into beast mode defensively. Offensively, surround MJ with shooters and he either creates for himself or create for others. Warriors win almost every time but hell yeah I think Rockete can win a couple. We are talking PEAK MJ here in this soft era of rules.

[Dray n Klay]

No Pippen?

lol, automatic 1-9


/thread

[Dragonyeuw]

It is almost as if people forget that MJ had the most talented roster ever assembled during the second half of his career. People wouldn't be able to comprehend a team of Lebron/Kawhi/Drummond on the same team team

More talented than the 86 Celtics? Or the 87 Lakers? 83 Sixers? Even in 96, the Magic with Shaq, Penny, Horace Grant, Dennis Scott, and Nick Anderson were at least as talented. They weren't more talented top to bottom than the Kemp/Payton/Detlef/Hawkins Sonics or Drexler/Porter/Duckworth/Kersey/Ainge Blazers either. The Suns with Barkley/Majerle/KJ/Dumas were comparable talents....the Bulls rosters weren't light years ahead of these teams. I don't see how a team with 3 double digit scorers, 2 in the starting lineup, is the most talented roster ever.

And Drummond isn't the correct parallel for Rodman. 5.5 points and 0.4 blocks doesn't equate to 16.2 points and 1.4 blocks. Rebounding is the only similarity there, hell the Bulls would have killed to have an interior presence that could score 16 a night.

[oh the horror]

this rocket team also has no talent .. the only difference between this years and last was Harden was playing much better. You know who the leading scorers besides him were? Trevor ariza, montejiunas and corey brewer. in 20 years you'll have no idea who those guys were.



Who is talented on this rocket team right now? Please dont say dwight.. he would put mj through a wall if he tried to step to him. DH isnt exactly the type to take constructive (or destructive) criticism


No talent? This is almost the same rockets as last season. Their issue is no chemistry leading to no cohesion. This team simply can't play together anymore

[oh the horror]

Hypothetical threads should be instantly deleted, that is what I would do if I was a mod here.

You can't win with this version of Dwight, that goes without saying!

The 96 Bulls would have trouble with a healthy 16 Warriors team, I don't think adding prime MJ would make a difference no matter what team you placed him on, not in today's league.



Stop. No one takes you serious with your Ronald McDonald ass fast food for thought ass. Sit down.

[k0kakw0rld]

How do they fare against GSW?
SWEEP 3 blowouts and one game decided by 1 point, in favor of the Dubs.