Another factor for MJ's GOATness: His durability.

[ClipperRevival]

Besides his 1985-86 season, when he broke his foot and only played 18 games and his 1994-95 season, when he played 17 games coming back from retirement, he only missed 7 games in 11 seasons as a Bull.

1984-85 - 82 games
1985-86 - Injury (18 games played)
1986-87 - 82 games
1987-88 - 82 games
1988-89 - 81 games
1989-90 - 82 games
1990-91 - 82 games
1991-92 - 80 games
1992-93 - 78 games
1994-95 - 17 games (come back from retirement)
1995-96 - 82 games
1996-97 - 82 games
1997-98 - 82 games

That is GOAT durability. The guy was a monster and WANTED to play. Not that rest players stuff of this era. Not to mention, he had GOAT stamina. Given the GOAT level offensive load he had to carry and his GOAT level D (two way play), it truly is amazing how great his stamina was on top of his durability.

[Dr Hawk]

Goat

[j3lademaster]

Rodman has a case for goat stamina/ durability. I mean, Phil himself said he's the best athlete he's coached.

[swagga]

Rodman has a case for goat stamina/ durability. I mean, Phil himself said he's the best athlete he's coached.

Rodman is the goat athlete.

[Hey Yo]

Besides his 1985-86 season, when he broke his foot and only played 18 games and his 1994-95 season, when he played 17 games coming back from retirement, he only missed 7 games in 11 seasons as a Bull.

1984-85 - 82 games
1985-86 - Injury (18 games played)
1986-87 - 82 games
1987-88 - 82 games
1988-89 - 81 games
1989-90 - 82 games
1990-91 - 82 games
1991-92 - 80 games
1992-93 - 78 games
1993-94 - quit the league in his prime
1994-95 - 17 games at the end of the season (came back from quitting to try to win a cheap, backdoor ring.)
1995-96 - 82 games
1996-97 - 82 games
1997-98 - 82 games

That is GOAT durability. The guy was a monster and WANTED to play. Not that rest players stuff of this era. Not to mention, he had GOAT stamina. Given the GOAT level offensive load he had to carry and his GOAT level D (two way play), it truly is amazing how great his stamina was on top of his durability.
fixed and noted.

[hateraid]

ClipperRevival has the GOAT human durability. He's been holding Jordan's dick for 13 years straight since he's retired

[jstern]

He has a lot of 82 game seasons, and that's impressive because of the type of game he played. I always attributed to perfect foot work. I remember many, many years ago getting angry at Marcus Camby injuring himself after doing with seemed like a 2 inch hop, because I attributed it to unsound movement.

Right now we're in the resting players era. Which is not a criticism, but good for your investment. But it's why the Warriors record has a little bit of an * to me, because they set out to break that record, with illegal screen, and in a league that were playing 97% instead of a 100%. (Those percentage are random numbers to communicate the point.)

[PJR]

Karl Malone and John Stockton are what GOAT durability looks like. And they didn't quit in the middle of their primes.

[ClipperRevival]

Rodman has a case for goat stamina/ durability. I mean, Phil himself said he's the best athlete he's coached.

Stamina and durability are not the same. Stamina being your energy/endurance level when you play. Durability being availability. Rodman had GOAT level stamina/energy but his availability was not even that great.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rodmade01.html

[ClipperRevival]

fixed and noted.

That the best you can do Bron stan? :hammertime:

[ClipperRevival]

ClipperRevival has the GOAT human durability. He's been holding Jordan's dick for 13 years straight since he's retired

I don't take what you have to say about MJ seriously anymore. You proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are nothing but a biased, MJ hater in that other thread.

[Young X]

Gary Payton had the GOAT durability.

[fragokota]

Havlicek's stamina was considered legendery back then. Wilt also comes to mind along with Jordan. For durability i would go with Stockton.

[Hey Yo]

That the best you can do Bron stan? :hammertime:
You referring to me pointing out your hypocrisy?

[jlip]

When it comes to basketball durability MJ doesn't enter my top 5, let alone being the GOAT. Stockton and Malone are clearly above him in terms of durability. 60's superstars such as Wilt and Russell, who typically played more minutes, under worse conditions are above him also. During the 60's trainers didn't even travel on the road with the team. Then you have Kareem and his longevity. He averaged 78 games played over 20 seasons. That's even including the years he had injuries. For his career, he played over 16,000 more minutes than MJ. At 36mpg, that's more than five additional seasons of basketball. When MJ played, he was durable and committed, but the fact that he actually took over a season and a half off from the game in his prime removes him from the GOAT durability conversation.

[senelcoolidge]

MJ and Wilt probably had the greatest stamina. They would've played every minute of every game if possible.

[ClipperRevival]

When it comes to basketball durability MJ doesn't enter my top 5, let alone being the GOAT. Stockton and Malone are clearly above him in terms of durability. 60's superstars such as Wilt and Russell, who typically played more minutes, under worse conditions are above him also. During the 60's trainers didn't even travel on the road with the team. Then you have Kareem and his longevity. He averaged 78 games played over 20 seasons. That's even including the years he had injuries. For his career, he played over 16,000 more minutes than MJ. At 36mpg, that's more than five additional seasons of basketball. When MJ played, he was durable and committed, but the fact that he actually took over a season and a half off from the game in his prime removes him from the GOAT durability conversation.

Yeah, I didn't mean to say MJ had THE GOAT durability, just that he's up there with anyone. And you can't downgrade MJ for retiring in his prime. That's different from not playing due to injury.

[Trollsmasher]

are we talking about the guy who 'quit' twice befre returning once he gained back some stamina?

[3ball]

are we talking about the guy who 'quit' twice befre returning once he gained back some stamina?


Jordan was involved in the MOST POSSESSIONS for his team (usage) at the highest POINTS-PER-POSSESSION efficiency (ORtg).. He simply did more..

Let's use Curry and Lebron as a examples:



Career



JORDAN REG SEASON:. 33.3% Usage.. 118 ORtg
CURRY4 REG SEASON:. 26.9% Usage.. 117 ORtg
LEBRON REG SEASON:. 31.6% Usage.. 116 ORtg

JORDAN PLAYOFFS:. 35.6% Usage.. 118 ORtg
CURRY4 PLAYOFFS:. 28.2% Usage.. 115 ORtg
LEBRON PLAYOFFS:. 32.0% Usage.. 114 ORtg





1991 vs. 2016:



JORDAN REG SEASON:. 32.9% usage.. 125 ORtg
CURRY4 REG SEASON:. 32.6% usage.. 125 ORtg



Curry's lower points-per-possession is due to his higher turnovers, which shouldn't be surprising.. Curry isn't capable of getting 40 points without at least 2 turnovers - he only has ONE 40 point game with 1 or zero turnovers, while Jordan had 130 such games thru 7 seasons (1993).

Btw, Curry's good shooting is the EXCEPTION among the league's top scorers - Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40), yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented, goat midrange efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over Lebron, Westbrook and company.

[bizil]

When it comes to a sustained run of greatness, its hard to top Kareem, Mailman, and Stockton. MJ aged awesome as well, but he had two retirements before finishing up with the Wizards. But for the numbers of seasons that MJ DID play, he had epic durability. And to be frank, MJ retired the first two times because of mental aspects OR the front office BS. It wasn't due to the physical part. The first two times he retired, he was the still the best player in the world.

[Smoke117]

ClipperRevival has the GOAT human durability. He's been holding Jordan's dick for 13 years straight since he's retired

Indeed.

[FKAri]

Jordan was involved in the MOST POSSESSIONS for his team (usage) at the highest POINTS-PER-POSSESSION efficiency (ORtg).. He simply did more..

Let's use Curry and Lebron as a examples:



Career



JORDAN REG SEASON:. 33.3% Usage.. 118 ORtg
CURRY4 REG SEASON:. 26.9% Usage.. 117 ORtg
LEBRON REG SEASON:. 31.6% Usage.. 116 ORtg

JORDAN PLAYOFFS:. 35.6% Usage.. 118 ORtg
CURRY4 PLAYOFFS:. 28.2% Usage.. 115 ORtg
LEBRON PLAYOFFS:. 32.0% Usage.. 114 ORtg





1991 vs. 2016:



JORDAN REG SEASON:. 32.9% usage.. 125 ORtg
CURRY4 REG SEASON:. 32.6% usage.. 125 ORtg



Curry's lower points-per-possession is due to his higher turnovers, which shouldn't be surprising.. Curry isn't capable of getting 40 points without at least 2 turnovers - he only has ONE 40 point game with 1 or zero turnovers, while Jordan had 130 such games thru 7 seasons (1993).

Btw, Curry's good shooting is the EXCEPTION among the league's top scorers - Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11712984&postcount=40), yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented, goat midrange efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over Lebron, Westbrook and company.

lol wtf. This is your response to his post? You probably see Michael Jordan in Rorschach tests :lol
How old are you? Why are you here? What are you doing in your life?

[CuterThanRubio]

MJ's fans will credit him for durability, but when LeBron is mentioned they will use it against him somehow.

Jokes on jokes!

[Pointguard]

His endurance was legendary. He could play all out on both sides of the ball for 55 minutes with great intensity. Magic said that was his main separation from other greats. People talked about how he didn't need sleep at the Olympics as well but was still the first at practice. He and KG were the only guys that you saw play with great intensity for like ten years.

[Nikola_]

lol wtf. This is your response to his post? You probably see Michael Jordan in Rorschach tests :lol
How old are you? Why are you here? What are you doing in your life?

6/6ball works here. :applause:

[bizil]

His endurance was legendary. He could play all out on both sides of the ball for 55 minutes with great intensity. Magic said that was his main separation from other greats. People talked about how he didn't need sleep at the Olympics as well but was still the first at practice. He and KG were the only guys that you saw play with great intensity for like ten years.

Well said! MJ combined the epic athletic ability of Doc and Thompson WITH the epic fundamentals and all around ability of guys like West, Big O, Magic, and Bird. That combination was never seen before at the time. And as u stated his motor and INTENSITY took him to the ultimate level.

[90sgoat]

You're forgetting MJ did all this while living an essentially degenerate lifestyle with late night gambling and betting for other men's wives.