Midrange rules in the clutch

[3ball]

We saw it from Harden tonight.

It's important to remember that layups/dunks can be prevented, and so can 3-pointers.

But players can ALWAYS toss up an off-balance midrange jumpshot with a defender draped all over - a defense can't prevent that, which is why most game-winners are midrange jumpshots.

And who ruled the midrange?... Who had arguably the greatest midrange jumpshooting season of all-time in 1997?... You already know - the GOAT did.. the GOAT had a goat-level midrange jumpshot.

Btw, I saw a few highlights from Harden tonight, and MY GOODNESS.... Iggy is too slow and can't guard Harden AT ALL - a SG like Harden is just too quick - Harden can create space against Iggy anytime he wants... Makes me wonder what the GOAT's athleticism and midrange jumpshot would do.

[Achilleas]

We saw it from Harden tonight.

It's important to remember that layups/dunks can be prevented, and so can 3-pointers.

But players can ALWAYS toss up an off-balance midrange jumpshot with a defender draped all over - a defense can't prevent that, which is why most game-winners are midrange jumpshots.

And who ruled the midrange?... Who had arguably the greatest midrange jumpshooting season of all-time in 1997?... You already know - the GOAT did.. the GOAT had a goat-level midrange jumpshot.

Btw, I saw a few highlights from Harden tonight, and MY GOODNESS.... Iggy is too slow and can't guard Harden AT ALL - a SG like Harden is just too quick - Harden can create space against Iggy anytime he wants... Makes me wonder what the GOAT athleticism and midrange jumpshot would do.
you like it because is was push off like mj did :confusedshrug: :coleman:

[riseagainst]

I thought you don't watch today's NBA.

:confusedshrug:

[3ball]

you like it because is was push off like mj did :confusedshrug: :coleman:
Push-offs are legal on last-second shots..

See Reggie Miller in Game 4 of 1998 ECF for perhaps the greatest push-off-game-winner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5drIn3aLco&t=0m05s) of all time (and the most obvious)... and he pushed off on the GOAT no less.

Regardless, Harden was dragging Iggy all over the court tonight.. Iggy simply can't guard quick SG's - he's better off against slower SF's.. Harden's quickness and offensive skill created space with EASE - he toyed with Iggy... We never saw Lebron create space like that - he simply doesn't have the SG-quickness or handle.
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[Achilleas]

Push-offs are legal on last-second shots..

See Reggie Miller in Game 4 of 1998 ECF for perhaps the greatest push-off-game-winner of all time (and the most obvious)... and he pushed off on the GOAT no less.

Regardless, Harden was dragging Iggy all over the court tonight.. Iggy simply can't guard quick SG's - he's better off against slower SF's.. Harden's quickness and offensive skill created space with EASE - he toyed with Iggy... We never saw Lebron create space like that - he simply doesn't have the SG-quickness or handle.
thanks

[aj1987]

Push-offs are legal on last-second shots..

See Reggie Miller in Game 4 of 1998 ECF for perhaps the greatest push-off-game-winner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5drIn3aLco&t=0m05s) of all time (and the most obvious)... and he pushed off on the GOAT no less.

Regardless, Harden was dragging Iggy all over the court tonight.. Iggy simply can't guard quick SG's - he's better off against slower SF's.. Harden's quickness and offensive skill created space with EASE - he toyed with Iggy... We never saw Lebron create space like that - he simply doesn't have the SG-quickness or handle.
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:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Go **** yourself with a rusty hammer.

[Terahite]

Best game of the playoffs so far. :applause:

[Thunderfan86]

And who ruled the midrange?... Who had arguably the greatest midrange jumpshooting season of all-time in 1997?... You already know - the GOAT did.. the GOAT had a goat-level midrange jumpshot.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I love this 3ball guy. Dude is so entertaining :cheers:

[3ball]

thanks
that was tongue-in-cheek, but still true.. everyone knows that the refs swallow their whistle on the last play.

jordan actually didn't push-off on russell - no one's forearm is strong enough to push someone off in that fashion.

seriously - do the motion with your arm that jordan did to russell... see??... no one's forearm is strong enough to push someone off like that.. russell fell back because he got SHOOK - the video shows that clearly.

[aj1987]

that was tongue-in-cheek, but still true.. everyone knows that the refs swallow their whistle on the last play.

jordan actually didn't push-off on russell - no one's forearm is strong enough to push someone off in that fashion.

seriously - do the motion with your arm that jordan did to russell... see??... no one's forearm is strong enough to push someone off like that.. russell fell back because he got SHOOK - the video shows that clearly.
Any more excuses? MJ's GOAT moment is an offensive foul. :oldlol:

[3ball]

Any more excuses? MJ's GOAT moment is an offensive foul. :oldlol:
:no:

I can tell you didn't do the motion with your arm

[aj1987]

:no:

I can tell you didn't do the motion with your arm
Yeah, I can tell you make a lot of moves with your arm while look up MJ's highlights.

[3ball]

.
...NBA.COM'S STATS ON
"MIDRANGE" EFFICIENCY
..(all shots inside 3-pt line but outside paint)



.......................Midrange Efficiency .

M Jordan. 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 48.9%.. 588/1202 <---- the GOAT standard

Harden 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201935/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):..... 40.5%.. 128/316

Westbrook 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):. 36.9%.. 164/445
Westbrook 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/):. 42.4%.. 129/304

D Wade.. 2006 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2548/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):... 38.4%.. 174/403
D Wade.. 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2548/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):... 39.5%.. 115/291
D Wade.. 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2548/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):... 38.9%.. 144/370
D Wade.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2548/stats/shooting/):... 36.4%.. 143/393

Derozan. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201942/stats/shooting/):... 37.5%.. 183/488

Butler. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202710/stats/shooting/):....... 35.9%.. 113/315

Lebron.. 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.8%.. 193/525
Lebron.. 2010 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.8%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2011 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 44.6%.. 217/487
Lebron.. 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 42.3%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 43.2%.. 174/403
Lebron.. 2014 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.5%.. 126/327
Lebron.. 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.0%.. 127/343
Lebron.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.1%.. 96/259
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[aj1987]

Why did you leave out his '98 season, ****wit?

[aj1987]

Why did you leave out his '98 season, ****wit?

[3ball]

Why did you leave out his '98 season, ****wit?
Jordan "only" shot 43.3% from midrange in 1998, due to a finger injury that prevented him from bending his right index finger.

But you're such a dumbass, that you don't realize 43.3% would still be better than everyone on the list, except Lebron's infamous 2011.
.

[3ball]

I thought you don't watch today's NBA.


I see the headlines on espn.com and the occasional highlight, plus the stats tell me what I need to know - for example, the stats show that Curry's good shooting is the EXCEPTION among today's top scorers.

Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency, yet they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over the non-shooting Lebron, Westbrook and company.

[ScalsFan21]

Jordan "only" shot 43.3% from midrange in 1998, due to a finger injury that prevented him from bending his right index finger.

But you're such a dumbass, that you don't realize 43.3% would still be better than everyone on the list, except Lebron's infamous 2011.
.

Even as a LeBron stan I think you make a lot of good points regarding why Michael was so good, not that it's a difficult case to make that a guy like Michael Jordan was great at basketball.

But this is where even you have to admit the inconsistency. You say in one thread that LeBron played with a healthy Wade and Bosh for all four seasons in Miami (clearly false on so many levels that we both know about), yet somehow in this instance the dip in efficiency is justified because Michael played through an injury.

But Wade's chronic knee issues in 2013 and particularly 2014 weren't a thing? Bosh missing a long stretch of games between round 2 and 3 during their run in 2012 was just nothing?

Why is black and white for you in one case (guys either playing in games, or not playing in games is the standard by which you define "healthy"), yet in another case it's more flexible? And this isn't the only time I've seen you and other LeBron haters apply this double standard. I'm really curious what you think the difference is with these situations.

[aj1987]

Jordan "only" shot 43.3% from midrange in 1998, due to a finger injury that prevented him from bending his right index finger.

But you're such a dumbass, that you don't realize 43.3% would still be better than everyone on the list, except Lebron's infamous 2011.
.
You're a cherrypicking retard with selective memory.

It's funny that you're comparing MJ to DeRozan. :roll:

[knicksman]

all of the perimeter players in the top 10 goat have elite midrange thats why bran doesnt belong in there. Anyone who isnt a statnerd knows the value of a jumpshot.

[Smoke117]

I see the headlines on espn.com and the occasional highlight, plus the stats tell me what I need to know - for example, the stats show that Curry's good shooting is the EXCEPTION among today's top scorers.

Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency, yet they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over the non-shooting Lebron, Westbrook and company.

This is why I can't believe anyone even takes your opinion seriously. You know I don't really watch football, but I think I'm going to start following the headlines, highlights, and stats and then go tell people who actually watch it what is wrong with their opinion.

[keep-itreal]

James Harden and midrange in the same sentence :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

it's a difficult case to make that a guy like Michael Jordan was great at basketball.


I'm not making the case that Jordan was "great" at basketball.. I'm proving that he's the undisputed goat, BY FAR, of basketball.

No one comes close.. For example, no all-time great led his team in scoring for every playoff series of their careers...... Except Jordan, who led his team in scoring by AT LEAST 10 POINTS for every playoff series of his career.. Think about that for a second, and the entirely different dimension that puts Jordan in compared to everyone else.





You say in one thread that LeBron played with a healthy Wade and Bosh for all four seasons in Miami (clearly false on so many levels that we both know about)


Wade missed some games in 2014 regular season, and Bosh missed 7 games in 2012 playoffs - but otherwise, both players played nearly all regular season games and ALL playoff games during the 4 years.

So yeah, Lebron's supporting cast had the same health as the typical supporting cast over a 4 year period.. For example, the time Wade missed in 2014 was less time than Pippen missed in 1998 (he missed half the season).





yet somehow in this instance the dip in efficiency is justified because Michael played through an injury.


Nothing needs to be "justified", because even WITH the injury, Jordan still shot 43.3% from midrange, which would be a career high for Kobe, Wade, Westbrook, Derozan, and Butler.. And it would rank 2nd in Lebron's career.

[3ball]

I can't believe anyone even takes your opinion seriously.



What issue do you have with the following stats and conclusions?



Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency, yet they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over the non-shooting Lebron, Westbrook and company.

[aj1987]

What issue do you have with the following stats and conclusions?



Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency, yet they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43), goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and give him a similarly massive advantage over the non-shooting Lebron, Westbrook and company.
tl;dr - MJ would be a slightly better version of Demar today.

[Da_Realist]

Houston's offense was HORRIBLE last night. As most teams' are today. That's actually the biggest reason GS is dominating. They have a good offense and they have a guy that can be expected to hit shots on whatever defense he faces. Either he hits the shot or he opens the floor for a lesser teammate to hit an easier shot.

Nobody else has both. Most teams just go one-on-one late in games like Houston did last night. They tried their hardest to give that game away last night. Horrible. They got lucky.

[aj1987]

Houston's offense was HORRIBLE last night. As most teams' are today. That's actually the biggest reason GS is dominating. They have a good offense and they have a guy that can be expected to hit shots on whatever defense he faces. Either he hits the shot or he opens the floor for a lesser teammate to hit an easier shot.

Nobody else has both. Most teams just go one-on-one late in games like Houston did last night. They tried their hardest to give that game away last night. Horrible. They got lucky.
Gotta give the defense props as well. Ignoring the illegal screens, Klay and Green and playing some really good defense. Klay made Harden his bitch in the first 2 games.

[3ball]

Curry either hits the shot or he opens the floor for a lesser teammate to hit an easier shot.


And Curry's teammates are the best 3-point shooting teammates ever, so they open the floor FOR HIM as well.

Otoh, Jordan enjoyed NO spacing by comparison, yet his scoring, points-per-possession efficiency, and nearly all other stats were still far superior to Curry's.

But even though Jordan's teammates didn't open the floor for him, he still opened the floor for them because he attracted so much defensive attention - the entire defense was slanted towards him at all times, including incessant (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386210) double-teams.

Guys like Kerr, Paxson, Wennington, Longley, Horace and company were WIDE OPEN repeatedly - open shots were the only kinds of shots they attempted.
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