Lebron records against elite players in Playoffs

[coined]

Tim Duncan 11 - 5 Lebron James

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=duncati01


Dwight Howard 4 - 2 Lebron James

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=howardw01

Dirk Nowitzki 4 - 2 Lebron James

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=nowitdi01


Stephen Curry 4 - 2 Lebron James

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=curryst01

[coined]

Kawhi Leonard 7 - 5 Lebron James

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=leonaka01

[3ball]

Tim Duncan 11 - 5 Lebron James (Jordan destroying Malone)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=duncati01


Dwight Howard 4 - 2 Lebron James (Jordan destroying Shaq, Ewing)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=howardw01

Dirk Nowitzki 4 - 2 Lebron James (Jordan destroying Barkley)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=nowitdi01


Stephen Curry 4 - 2 Lebron James (Jordan destroying Payton, Stockton)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=curryst01


Kawhi Leonard 7 - 5 Lebron James (Jordan destroying Drexler)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=leonaka01


http://media.giphy.com/media/Mp4hQy51LjY6A/giphy.gif

[Mr. Jabbar]

brutal.

[AirBonner]

http://media.giphy.com/media/Mp4hQy51LjY6A/giphy.gif
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[sportjames23]

http://media.giphy.com/media/Mp4hQy51LjY6A/giphy.gif


Savage :lol

[aj1987]

Can you do that for Rose, KD, WB, Harden, PG, KG, Allen, Pierce, Rondo, etc.?

[SpaceJam]

Can you do that for Rose, KD, WB, Harden, PG, KG, Allen, Pierce, Rondo, etc.?

None of them are wrongly considered top 3 all time though

[aj1987]

None of them are wrongly considered top 3 all time though
:facepalm :facepalm

Them vs LeBron.



I ask this again. LeBron is most likely not going to win this year as well, but why are all you Kobe tards melting down?

[Bankaii]

So Dwight and Kawhi are considered elite but Durant, Rose, Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Carmelo, and Paul George aren't?

[Bankaii]

Can you do that for Rose, KD, WB, Harden, PG, KG, Allen, Pierce, Rondo, etc.?
Nvm beat me to it.

[SpaceJam]

:facepalm :facepalm

Them vs LeBron.



I ask this again. LeBron is most likely not going to win this year as well, but why are all you Kobe tards melting down?

:oldlol: :oldlol:

I interpreted that SO wrong

I'd say Ray, Pierce, KG, Rondo be pretty even

George and Rose is a blowout,

Durant, Westbrook, Harden obviously 4-2 in favor of Bron

EDIT: Have Melo and Bron ever faced off in the post season? Can't recall

[Eye Test]

Surprised he even won that many games ON HIS OWN against those stacked teams. Lebron has played alongside hot garbage or injured players his whole career. That Orlando team is very underrated too, dwight howard was in BEAST form.

[AirBonner]

Surprised he even won that many games ON HIS OWN against those stacked teams. Lebron has played alongside hot garbage or injured players his whole career. That Orlando team is very underrated too, dwight howard was in BEAST form.
why is your Mr. Jabbar account logged off?

[Eye Test]

why is your Mr. Jabbar account logged off?

Whats your fixation with Mr. Jabbar? Put him on ignore as I did.

[3ball]

against those stacked teams


Lebron's teams were stacked, and not only when he teamed up with 2 of the top 5 PER's in the league (Wade and Bosh).

In 2009, Lebron's supporting cast added enough help on top of his 28/8/7 to win 66 games... Compare that to the 1989 Bulls, who only added enough help on top of Jordan's 33/8/8 to win 47 games.

The only possible reasons for the Cavs winning 19 more games despite Lebron's inferior production is that the supporting cast was better and/or they played inferior competition.. Obviously, the 19 additional wins isn't ONLY due to inferior competition - it's due to better supporting cast as well.





Surprised he even won that many games ON HIS OWN


Both Wade and Bosh were healthy for their entire tenure with Lebron - Wade missed some games in 2014, but that happens during a TENURE - Pippen missed far more games in 1998.

So other than a few games in 2014 where Wade was mostly resting, Wade was healthy during his tenure with Lebron - he only missed 1 playoff game in the 4 years, while Bosh missed none in 2011, 2013 and 2014 (he missed 7 in 2012, but none in Finals).





That Orlando team is very underrated too, dwight howard was in BEAST form.


The Cavs were favored in that series - that series was one of many where Lebron has lost as the favorite.

His teams underachieve because he reduces the PPG and APG of teammates and turns them into play-finishers (lowers their APG while increasing their assisted rate).. This is all statistical fact.

And not surprisingly, his teammates' predictable play-finishing roles no longer work against the best playoff teams - so they underperform, leading to the aforementioned TEAM underperformance.

[aj1987]

:oldlol: :oldlol:

I interpreted that SO wrong

I'd say Ray, Pierce, KG, Rondo be pretty even

George and Rose is a blowout,

Durant, Westbrook, Harden obviously 4-2 in favor of Bron

EDIT: Have Melo and Bron ever faced off in the post season? Can't recall
12-11 vs the Celtics big 3
12-3 vs the Bulls
12-7 vs PG
4-1 vs the Thunder big 3.



Both Wade and Bosh were healthy for their entire tenure with Lebron
Retard.

[francesco totti]

So Dwight and Kawhi are considered elite but Durant, Rose, Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Carmelo, and Paul George aren't?

You can throw Vince Carter, and Rasheed Wallace/Chris Webber ( since he included them in Kobe Bryant thread ).

Both Kobe, and Lebron won/lost against elite players.

[SpaceJam]

12-11 vs the Celtics big 3
12-3 vs the Bulls
12-7 vs PG
4-1 vs the Thunder big 3.


Retard.

Bron sh^ts on Chicago fml so upsetting

My bad thought the 2012 Finals went 6 games

[3ball]

Retard.


Wade missed some games in 2014 regular season and Bosh missed 7 games in 2012 playoffs, but that's it.

They were otherwise healthy in regular season and playoffs during their 4 years with Lebron.

The reality is that Lebron teamed up with 2 of the top 5 PER's in the league, and only went 2/4.. That's a massive underachievement... Bird, Magic, and MJ would go 4/4 with that kind of talent and you know it.

[swagga]

Wade missed some games in 2014 regular season and Bosh missed 7 games in 2012 playoffs, but that's it.

They were otherwise healthy in regular season and playoffs during their 4 years with Lebron.

The reality is that Lebron teamed up with 2 of the top 5 PER's in the league, and only went 2/4.. That's a massive underachievement... Bird, Magic, and MJ would go 4/4 with that kind of talent and you know it.

son you are melting down tbh. that's a blatant lie.

[Round Mound]

http://media.giphy.com/media/Mp4hQy51LjY6A/giphy.gif

91: Pippen Destroying Worthy (Played Injured) and Slowing Down Magic Johnson
92: Pippen Destroying Terry Porter
93: Pippen Destroying KJ
94: Pippen 4th In PER in the Whole League
95: Pippen 7th In PER in the Whole League (1st in Defensive Rating). Shaq-Penny-Grant Eliminates Jordan-Pippen-Kukoc
96: Pippen and Rodman Destroying Payton and Kemp
97: Pippen and Rodman Destroying Malone and Stockton
98: Pippen and Rodman Detroying Malone and Stockton

:confusedshrug:

[aj1987]

Wade missed some games in 2014 regular season and Bosh missed 7 games in 2012 playoffs, but that's it.

They were otherwise healthy in regular season and playoffs during their 4 years with Lebron.

The reality is that Lebron teamed up with 2 of the top 5 PER's in the league, and only went 2/4.. That's a massive underachievement... Bird, Magic, and MJ would go 4/4 with that kind of talent and you know it.
Retard.

[3ball]

91: Pippen Destroying Worthy (Played Injured) and Slowing Down Magic Johnson


Worthy destroyed Pippen for 19 ppg on 47% in the 1991 Finals.

Also, Jordan guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%) to Pippen's 6 of 10 quarters (30%).

Specifically, Pippen guarded Magic for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters of Game 2... the 2nd and 3rd quarters of Game 3... the last 4 minutes of Game 4, and none in Games 1 or 5..

Here's all 5 games in their entirety:


Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUC9fSFdik
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6AWPT6fG0
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueGQChyFuU
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0LJVxaqD0
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNFQSBUe5c







92: Pippen Destroying Terry Porter


Pippen didn't guard Porter, but Jordan did






93: Pippen Destroying KJ


Pippen didn't guard KJ, but Jordan did - youtube uploader "Nobody Touches Jordan" documented MJ's lockdown of KJ here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw).






94: Pippen 4th In PER in the Whole League]


Pippen got bounced in the 2nd Round.. Needed a full season of Jordan to 3-peat....... AGAIN

Interestingly, the Bulls' DRtg in 1994 (6th) wasn't any better relative to the league than the first 3-peat (7th, 4th, 7th).. Accordingly, the massive decline from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd Round team was due entirely to the absence of MJ's goat offense (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12082990&postcount=185), which caused their ORtg to crater from #1 all-time (during the 3-peat) to 14th in the league in 1994.





95: Pippen 7th In PER in the Whole League and 1st in DRtg


Jordan scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers.. No other all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series, LET ALONE BY 10 PPG... Let that sink in, how much better Jordan is than everyone else.

In addition to his GOAT scoring load, Jordan led the Bulls in passing - Jordan led Bulls in assist % for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49).






96: Pippen and Rodman Destroying Payton and Kemp


Pippen didn't guard Kemp or Payton.

Otoh, Jordan was Payton's primary defender in Game 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw) and Game 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFiqeJcgXfg).

Btw, Jordan was the hero of the Game 6 closeout win - Jordan had 22/9/7 and enabled a 12-point victory by holding Hawkins to 12 points below his average (4 points total), while Pippen, Rodman and Harper let their man go OFF:


Schrempf destroyed Pippen for 23 pts on 53%
Kemp destroyed Rodman for 18/10 on 47%
Payton destroyed Harper for 21 points on 70%






97: Pippen and Rodman Destroying Malone and Stockton


Pippen didn't guard Stockton, while Jordan DID, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0).

And Rodman was destroyed by Malone for 24/10.






98: Pippen and Rodman Destroying Malone and Stockton


Pippen didn't guard Stockton, while Jordan DID, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0).

And Rodman was destroyed by Malone for 25/10.
.

[sportjames23]

http://media.giphy.com/media/Mp4hQy51LjY6A/giphy.gif

[3ball]

son you are melting down tbh. that's a blatant lie.


It isn't a lie - Wade played in 86 of 87 playoff games during the 4 years alongside Lebron.

So he was healthy for every championship run.

Bosh only missed those 7 games in 2012 playoffs and that's it - he played in 80 of 87 playoff games alongside Lebron.

The reality is that Lebron teamed up with 2 of the top 5 PER's in the league, and only went 2/4.. That's a massive underachievement... Bird, Magic, and MJ would go 4/4 with that kind of talent, considering they did more with less.

[aj1987]

It isn't a lie - Wade played in 86 of 87 playoff games during the 4 years alongside Lebron.

So he was healthy for every championship run.
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/7953660/2012-nba-playoffs-miami-heat-dwyane-wade-had-fluid-drained-knee-sources-say
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9272220/nba-playoffs-2013-miami-heat-win-find-dwyane-wade-loss-knee
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/6/24/4461258/dwyane-wade-injury-knee-surgery
http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/8143398/miami-heat-dwyane-wade-surgery-knee
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/fourth-place-medal/dwyane-wade-undergo-knee-surgery-miss-entire-2012-203457417--oly.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2007488-dwyane-wade-injury-updates-on-heat-stars-hamstring-and-return
http://www.hothothoops.com/2014/4/12/5608910/injury-report-dwyane-wade-returns-from-injury-and-will-be-starting-vs


Bosh only missed those 7 games in 2012 playoffs and that's it - he played in 80 of 87 playoff games alongside Lebron.
He still was playing injured in '12. He came back because Miami NEEDED him.


The reality is that Lebron teamed up with 2 of the top 5 PER's in the league, and only went 2/4.. That's a massive underachievement... Bird, Magic, and MJ would go 4/4 with that kind of talent, considering they did more with less.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

According to PER, LeBron is the 2nd greatest player ever.

[3ball]

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/7953660/2012-nba-playoffs-miami-heat-dwyane-wade-had-fluid-drained-knee-sources-say
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9272220/nba-playoffs-2013-miami-heat-win-find-dwyane-wade-loss-knee
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/6/24/4461258/dwyane-wade-injury-knee-surgery
http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/8143398/miami-heat-dwyane-wade-surgery-knee
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/fourth-place-medal/dwyane-wade-undergo-knee-surgery-miss-entire-2012-203457417--oly.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2007488-dwyane-wade-injury-updates-on-heat-stars-hamstring-and-return
http://www.hothothoops.com/2014/4/12/5608910/injury-report-dwyane-wade-returns-from-injury-and-will-be-starting-vs


You think that finding articles from the injury beat means anything?

I can find the same articles for Jordan that detail ongoing injuries he had, such as persistent tendinitis.

But just like Wade, he didn't miss any playoff games.





According to PER, LeBron is the 2nd greatest player ever.


He isn't anywhere near #2.. But PER is still a good measuring stick for who the best players are.

And Lebron teamed up with 2 of the top 5 PER's in the league.. Put Jordan with 2 of the top 5 PER's in any year, and he wins the championship EVERY year... The same goes for any top 10 player.

[aj1987]

You think that finding articles from the injury beat means anything?

I can find the same articles for Jordan that detail ongoing injuries he had, such as persistent tendinitis.

But just like Wade, he didn't miss any playoff games.
Wade was playing hurt, turd. Why do you think he struggled massively in '13 and the '14 Finals.


He isn't anywhere near #2.. But PER is still a good measuring stick for who the best players are.
Exactly. So you have to admit that LeBron is #2 all time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

[Bandito]

son you are melting down tbh. that's a blatant lie.
Where did he lie in that post?

[aj1987]

Where did he lie in that post?

They were otherwise healthy in regular season and playoffs during their 4 years with Lebron.

This is a new low among Kobe stans in not being able to read.

[3ball]

Exactly. So you have to admit that LeBron is #2 all time.


Yeah right.. But truthfully, Lebron actually played great defense on Kawhi for the first 2 games of 2014 Finals (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then weak-minded Lebron gave up in Game 3 - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.





the '14 Finals.


The games would've been much closer if Lebron had played better defense on Kawhi, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.





Wade was playing hurt, turd. Why do you think he struggled massively in '13 and the '14 Finals.


In the 2013 Finals, Wade had 20/4/5 on 48%, which is better than most playoff series that Pippen ever played in.

In the 2014 Finals, Wade struggled, but THAT HAPPENS - Pippen struggled worse in 1996 and 1998 Finals, but Jordan still pulled it out, because:


1) he didn't let a role player have crazy stats and become > Duncan (Malone), since that's a 10+ point swing if that happens

2) he didn't play passively with only 17 shots per game, thus allowing the Spurs' defenders to stay at home and lock down teammates.

[sportjames23]

Yeah right.. But truthfully, Lebron actually played great defense on Kawhi for the first 2 games of 2014 Finals (9 ppg on 43%), and not surprisingly, the Heat were tied 1-1... They were competitive with the Spurs, just like OKC and Dallas were, who held Kawhi to 12 ppg on 45%.

But then weak-minded Lebron gave up in Game 3 - Kawhi proceeded to run roughshod the last 3 games for 24 ppg on 69% - this is the biggest reason the series changed - that's a 15 point swing.



The games would've been much closer if Lebron had played better defense on Kawhi, and the Heat could've WON the series if Lebron coupled his better defense on Kawhi with more offensive aggression - he only averaged 17 shot attempts, which was HALF his attempts in 2015 Finals that won 2 games with a worse supporting cast (the injured Cavs) against a better team (Warriors)..

Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.



In the 2013 Finals, Wade had 20/4/5 on 48%, which is better than most playoff series that Pippen ever played in.

In the 2014 Finals, Wade struggled, but THAT HAPPENS - Pippen struggled worse in 1996 and 1998 Finals, but Jordan still pulled it out, because:


1) he didn't let a role player have crazy stats and become > Duncan (Malone), since that's a 10+ point swing if that happens

2) he didn't play passively with only 17 shots per game, thus allowing the Spurs' defenders to stay at home and lock down teammates.


http://media.giphy.com/media/Mp4hQy51LjY6A/giphy.gif

[aj1987]

Yeah right..
Glad you admit that LeBron is #2 all-time. Personally, I have KAJ, Magic, Shaq, BR, and Duncan over him.


Obviously, if Lebron plays good defense on Kawhi AND doubles his shot attempts to 33 per game like the 2015 Finals, the Heat would've won.
Shots don't magically appear out of nowhere. Kawhi was hitting contested fadeaways. You would know this if you actually WATCHED the games.


In the 2013 Finals, Wade had 20/4/5 on 48%, which is better than most playoff series that Pippen ever played in.
Did you sleep through the first 3 rounds? Oh wait, I forgot that you haven't ever watched basketball.


In the 2014 Finals, Wade struggled, but THAT HAPPENS - Pippen struggled worse in 1996 and 1998 Finals, but Jordan still pulled it out, because:
Almost all of Pippen's Finals were better than Wade's '14 Finals. Wade flat out sucked on both sides of the court and Pippen was a significantly better defender than '14 Wade.


1) Pippen didn't let a role player have crazy stats and become > Duncan (Malone), since that's a 10+ point swing if that happens
Agreed.


he didn't play passively with only 17 shots per game, thus allowing the Spurs' defenders to stay at home and lock down teammates.
I guess BB-Ref can only tell you so much.

[SouBeachTalents]

People on this site really believe the NBA is played 1 on 1

[Round Mound]

Worthy destroyed Pippen for 19 ppg on 47% in the 1991 Finals.

Worthy Was Injured: So The Bulls Where Lucky...

Also, Jordan guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%) to Pippen's 6 of 10 quarters (30%).

Jordan Did Not Tire Off Magic. MJ Was Fouling Magic All The Time and Getting Tired So They Switched to Pippen and It Was More Effective: Even Phil Jackson Says This

Specifically, Pippen guarded Magic for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters of Game 2... the 2nd and 3rd quarters of Game 3... the last 4 minutes of Game 4, and none in Games 1 or 5..

Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Pippen didn't guard Porter, but Jordan did

I Know But Jordan Did Not Destroy Malone Either Cause He Wasn`t Guarding Him, The Bulls as a Team Where.

Pippen didn't guard KJ, but Jordan did - youtube uploader "Nobody Touches Jordan" documented MJ's lockdown of KJ

I Know but Jordan Did Not Destroy Barkley: He Wasn`t Guarding Barkley The Bulls As a Team Did (Even Though He Was Elbow Injured After Game 2)

Same Thing goes for Ewing and Shaq: The Bulls as a Team Stopped Them Not Jordan

*All Defensive Measures Show Pippen Had More Impact Defensively Than Jordan Did

Pippen got bounced in the 2nd Round.. Needed a full season of Jordan to 3-peat....... AGAIN

Interestingly, the Bulls' DRtg in 1994 (6th) wasn't any better relative to the league than the first 3-peat (7th, 4th, 7th)...

Who Cares. Pippen was 4th in PER: That = 4th Best Player in the Game and The Best Defensive Player in the Game Too (In Big Men Ways As A Perimeter Player)

Jordan scored at least 10 ppg more than Pippen for every playoff series of their careers.. No other all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series, LET ALONE BY 10 PPG... Let that sink in, how much better Jordan is than everyone else.

Ofcourse Since Pippen Had More Responsablities: He Was Usually Guarding The Best Offensive Players, Being The Best Play Maker as a Point Forward For The Bulls, Being The 2nd Lead Rebounder For The Bulls and Also Being The 2nd Lead Scorer For The Bulls. Pippen`s Game Stretched Longer Than Jordan`s.

In addition to his GOAT scoring load, Jordan led the Bulls in passing - Jordan led Bulls in assist % for both 3-peats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49).

Jordans Passing Was Similar To Lebrons Drive Over a Smaller Opponent, Force A Double Team and Then Pass Off. He Wasn`t The Passer Magic and Bird Where and He Did Not Have The Perfect Timing To Feed Passes Like Pippen Did.

For MJ Passing Wasnt Natural For Pippen It Was.

Pippen didn't guard Kemp or Payton.

Otoh, Jordan was Payton's primary defender in

Btw, Jordan was the hero of the Game 6...


Schrempf destroyed Pippen for 23 pts on 53%
Kemp destroyed Rodman for 18/10 on 47%
Payton destroyed Harper for 21 points on 70%

Pippen didn't guard Stockton, while Jordan DID, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0).

And Rodman was destroyed by Malone for 24/10.

Pippen didn't guard Stockton, while Jordan DID, shown here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0).

And Rodman was destroyed by Malone for 25/10.

It Was Pippen`s Playmaking Abilitiy That Made The Bulls a Super Team Appart from MJs Scoring. The Game Is Not About 1 on 1 Its About All Around Skills. No One Here Is Saying Jordan Was Not The Best Player. He Was. But....He Had Great Help in Grant and Pippen Early On and Rodman, Kukoc, Harper, Longley etc later on. He Alwas Had The Best Teamates in the 90s.

Also Nothing Can Descredit Pippen As Being A Top 4 to 7 Player in the Game Even as a 2nd Option and The Top Defensive Player in the Game. Statistically It Also Has Been Prooven.

[LAZERUSS]

:rockon:

I can condense this down even further.

Without MJ, the Bulls went an injury-riddled 55-27 (Pippen and Grant missed a combined 22 games), and then were a horrific call away from beating the 56-26 Knicks in the ECF's, in a series in which MJ's replacement averaged 7 ppg. The same Knicks team that would lose a game seven by four points to the 58-24 Rockets in the Finals. Had Pippen and Grant been reasonably healthy, the Bulls would have won 60+ games, and had HCA throughout the playoffs....and we know that they went 5-0 with HCA.

[tmacattack33]

Completely retarded and biased.

Why would you mention Duncan and not KG?

And Rose was elite (against everyone besides Lebron...) before his injury.

And Lebron's team usually faces 2nd tier guys George, Melo, Arenas and guys like that. Not his fault the East hardly ever had any true elite (top 3) players for him to face.