Worse Finals: '05 Duncan or '10 Kobe?

[Dray n Klay]

Which one was worse?



How either of them won FMVP is beyond me :facepalm

[AirBonner]

Which one was worse?



How either of them won FMVP is beyond me :facepalm
Duncan at least still contributed. Kobe was a burden that Gasol had to shoulder.

[Dray n Klay]

Duncan at least still contributed. Kobe was a burden that Gasol had to shoulder.


Solid point.

[Showtime2001]

2011 LeBron.

[Kawhi]

2007 LeBron.

[Dray n Klay]

So you guys are basically saying that Kobe/Duncan had stacked teams that could still win when they played poorly, but LeBrons teams don't win unless LeBron plays at a ATG level? :yaohappy:

#got'em

[ballinhun8]

2014 lebron



empty stats

[Kawhi]

2015 LeBron.

[SouBeachTalents]

They were both easily better than '07 & '11 LeBron

[SuperCereal]

2011 LeBron

[Dray n Klay]

They were both easily better than '07 & '11 LeBron


Except LeBrons teams lost and LeBron didn't win FMVP


Therefore you can't compare them






It's fasinating how Duncan/Kobe get praised for those Finals for playing the same as 07 LeBron.






You could add '96 Jordan as another example of a horrible finals performance where the team still won and he won FMVP

[Overdrive]

2013 Lebron.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Except LeBrons teams lost


yup, that about sums up the Lebron vs Kobe/Duncan debates

[SexSymbol]

Lebron 2011, 2007, 2014, 2013, 2015

[Stringer Bell]

Duncan had a better series.

Both of them, especially Kobe, struggled offensively in game 7 and had to contribute in other ways. Gasol was the player of the game that night, but that doesn't mean he had the better overall series than Kobe. Despite his shooting struggles, Duncan clearly had the best overall series of anyone on the Spurs, so the FMVP was deserved. Who else would you give it to? Ginobili is probably the only other option, and he didn't have the overall impact that Duncan had.

[HOoopCityJones]

Lebron 2011, 2007, 2015

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan had a better series.

Both of them, especially Kobe, struggled offensively in game 7 and had to contribute in other ways. Gasol was the player of the game that night, but that doesn't mean he had the better overall series than Kobe. Despite his shooting struggles, Duncan clearly had the best overall series of anyone on the Spurs, so the FMVP was deserved. Who else would you give it to? Ginobili is probably the only other option, and he didn't have the overall impact that Duncan had.


How so? Kobe was carrying The Lakers before game 7

[masonanddixon]

Lebron 2011, 2007, 2014, 2013, 2015

THIS.

[Gileraracer]

Lebron when he shot 39% and cost his team a title (again after 2011)

[MoBe1Kanobi]

Duncan had a better series.

Both of them, especially Kobe, struggled offensively in game 7 and had to contribute in other ways. Gasol was the player of the game that night, but that doesn't mean he had the better overall series than Kobe. Despite his shooting struggles, Duncan clearly had the best overall series of anyone on the Spurs, so the FMVP was deserved. Who else would you give it to? Ginobili is probably the only other option, and he didn't have the overall impact that Duncan had.

Kobe had a better series.

Both of them, especially Duncan, struggled offensively in game 7 and had to contribute in other ways. Ginobili was the player of the game that night, but that doesn't mean he had the better overall series than Duncan. Despite his shooting struggles, Kobe clearly had the best overall series of anyone on the Lakers, so the FMVP was deserved. Who else would you give it to? Gasol is probably the only other option, and he didn't have the overall impact that Kobe had.

[keep-itreal]

Agenda thread

[Real14]

2007 LeBronna
2011 LeFawn
2013 LeDawn
2014 LeTanya
2015 LeDonna

Take your damn pick.

[rmt]

Kobe had a better series.

Both of them, especially Duncan, struggled offensively in game 7 and had to contribute in other ways. Ginobili was the player of the game that night, but that doesn't mean he had the better overall series than Duncan. Despite his shooting struggles, Kobe clearly had the best overall series of anyone on the Lakers, so the FMVP was deserved. Who else would you give it to? Gasol is probably the only other option, and he didn't have the overall impact that Kobe had.

Your memory of game 7 does not match Parker, Pop, Ben Wallace or Larry Brown:

He was the fulcrum of virtually every key play down the stretch.

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

http://web.archive.org/web/20090219212308/http://www.nba.com/games/20050623/DETSAS/recap.html

[Lebronxrings]

kobe.

Duncans team won with him.

Kobes team won in spite of him.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Duncan = 20ppg on 47% TS

Kobe = 29ppg on 53% TS

Duncan = 20/14/2/ with 0 steals and 2 blocks per game on 47% TS

Kobe = 29/8/4/ with 2 steals and 1 blocks per game on 53% TS

pretty clear that Kobe was better

[Cold soul]

Duncan = 20ppg on 47% TS

Kobe = 29ppg on 53% TS

Duncan = 20/14/2/ with 0 steals and 2 blocks per game on 47% TS

Kobe = 29/8/4/ with 2 steals and 1 blocks per game on 53% TS

pretty clear that Kobe was better

Yup pretty clear as day.

[tpols]

2015 LeDonna.

:lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan = 20ppg on 47% TS

Kobe = 29ppg on 53% TS

Duncan = 20/14/2/ with 0 steals and 2 blocks per game on 47% TS

Kobe = 29/8/4/ with 2 steals and 1 blocks per game on 53% TS

pretty clear that Kobe was better

Welp, there it is.

[ImKobe]

on the road
Kobe @BOS: 33/6/3 on 42/39/92 shooting, 1.7 spg 1.3 bpg
Duncan @DET: 19/15/3 on 38%FG, 58%FT, 1.0 spg 2.0 bpg

Game 7
Kobe: 23/15/2 1 stl 6/24 shooting 4 TO
Duncan: 25/11/3 2 blk 10/27 shooting 5 TO

Duncan shot below 40% 3 times in the series, Kobe 2
Duncan scored 20+ pts 4 times in the series, Kobe 20+ every game and 3 times 30+ pts

Duncan overall was a -8 in the series when he was on the floor
Kobe overall was a +10 in the series when he was on the floor

Spurs were never behind in their series, Lakers had to win their last 2 games at home to win the title..Lakers were never blown out in one game while Spurs dropped back to back games by an average of 24 points, where Duncan shot a combined 10/32 and was a combined -43 on the floor

I've seen posters say that Manu/Pau were the true MVPs of those series

Lakers vs Celtics
Pau: 19/12/4 56%TS 2.6 bpg 21%USG 101 DRTG
Kobe: 29/8/4 53%TS 2.1 spg 35,6%USG 99 DRTG

Spurs vs Pistons
Manu: 19/6/4 64%TS 1.3 spg 104 DRTG 25%USG
Duncan: 21/14/2 47%TS 2.1 bpg 100 DRTG 30%USG

There's a much better case to be made for Manu being the real 2005 FMVP than Pau being FMVP in 2010... just look at the TS% and USG% numbers, Kobe putting up 10 more pts per game than Pau while Duncan put up 2 more than Manu...or production on the road, where Lakers fell behind because Pau played like trash while KB was putting up twice as many points a game...

Spurs almost fell 2 - 3 behind in the series in OT of Game 5 due to Duncan missing a FT to win the game in the 4th...then Horry game-winner happened while TD went 0/2 in OT


Kobe shot like crap in Game 7 but he set up the Artest 3 and hit the FTs to secure the lead..overall he had a decent series, was putting up similar numbers to his 2009 series through his first 6 games...Duncan had the lowest TS% for any Finals MVP in the modern era IIRC.

[riseagainst]

Lebron

[zbott]

Duncan still averaged 20 pts - 14 boards ... played within the system and got the chip ...

[Jacks3]

on the road
Kobe @BOS: 33/6/3 on 42/39/92 shooting, 1.7 spg 1.3 bpg
Duncan @DET: 19/15/3 on 38%FG, 58%FT, 1.0 spg 2.0 bpg

Game 7
Kobe: 23/15/2 1 stl 6/24 shooting 4 TO
Duncan: 25/11/3 2 blk 10/27 shooting 5 TO

Duncan shot below 40% 3 times in the series, Kobe 2
Duncan scored 20+ pts 4 times in the series, Kobe 20+ every game and 3 times 30+ pts

Duncan overall was a -8 in the series when he was on the floor
Kobe overall was a +10 in the series when he was on the floor

Spurs were never behind in their series, Lakers had to win their last 2 games at home to win the title..Lakers were never blown out in one game while Spurs dropped back to back games by an average of 24 points, where Duncan shot a combined 10/32 and was a combined -43 on the floor

I've seen posters say that Manu/Pau were the true MVPs of those series

Lakers vs Celtics
Pau: 19/12/4 56%TS 2.6 bpg 21%USG 101 DRTG
Kobe: 29/8/4 53%TS 2.1 spg 35,6%USG 99 DRTG

Spurs vs Pistons
Manu: 19/6/4 64%TS 1.3 spg 104 DRTG 25%USG
Duncan: 21/14/2 47%TS 2.1 bpg 100 DRTG 30%USG

There's a much better case to be made for Manu being the real 2005 FMVP than Pau being FMVP in 2010... just look at the TS% and USG% numbers, Kobe putting up 10 more pts per game than Pau while Duncan put up 2 more than Manu...or production on the road, where Lakers fell behind because Pau played like trash while KB was putting up twice as many points a game...

Spurs almost fell 2 - 3 behind in the series in OT of Game 5 due to Duncan missing a FT to win the game in the 4th...then Horry game-winner happened while TD went 0/2 in OT


Kobe shot like crap in Game 7 but he set up the Artest 3 and hit the FTs to secure the lead..overall he had a decent series, was putting up similar numbers to his 2009 series through his first 6 games...Duncan had the lowest TS% for any Finals MVP in the modern era IIRC.
This.

[Jacks3]

Duncan = 20ppg on 47% TS

Kobe = 29ppg on 53% TS

Duncan = 20/14/2/ with 0 steals and 2 blocks per game on 47% TS

Kobe = 29/8/4/ with 2 steals and 1 blocks per game on 53% TS

pretty clear that Kobe was better

And this. Duncan has no case.

[sd3035]

2011 Lebald

[greatest-ever]

Duncan was worse. His offense was putrid in that series.

[Jacks3]

It's also funny how these idiots think 29/8/4/2/1/53% TS/108 DRTG/36% USG against one of the best playoff defenses ever is a "bad" series. :oldlol:

[G0ATbe]

2007, 2011, 2014, 2015, and soon to be 2016 LeBron

[konex]

Duncan had a better series.

Duncan - 20.6ppg/14.1rpg/2.1apg/2.1bpg on 41.9% shooting

Kobe - 28.6ppg/8.rpg/3.9apg/ 2.1spg on 40.5% shooting

I dunno about that. 42% for a big is putrid

[soots]

Ermm.. that 2005 series was all about defense with DPOY Wallace guarding Duncan... Both sides shot chit. Shots were altered, blocked etc and it was a grueling series.

Prime Wallace was probably the top 5 Defensive players in history

I always said within 5 years of retirement Duncan would slip out of the top 20 because people look at stats. Duncan contributed with Defense and leadership. You want to compare defense of 2005 Ginobili v prime Duncan?

Defense is half the game.

[DaOldLion]

Ermm.. that 2005 series was all about defense with DPOY Wallace guarding Duncan... Both sides shot chit. Shots were altered, blocked etc and it was a grueling series.

Prime Wallace was probably the top 5 Defensive players in history

I always said within 5 years of retirement Duncan would slip out of the top 20 because people look at stats. Duncan contributed with Defense and leadership. You want to compare defense of 2005 Ginobili v prime Duncan?

Defense is half the game.

so is Kawhi better than Steph??

Steph scores 9+ more ppg on better efficiency, averages more assist but Kawhi is better on defense..

[HOoopCityJones]

so is Kawhi better than Steph??

Steph scores 9+ more ppg on better efficiency, averages more assist but Kawhi is better on defense..

Got em.

[SpaceJam]

on the road
Kobe @BOS: 33/6/3 on 42/39/92 shooting, 1.7 spg 1.3 bpg
Duncan @DET: 19/15/3 on 38%FG, 58%FT, 1.0 spg 2.0 bpg

Game 7
Kobe: 23/15/2 1 stl 6/24 shooting 4 TO
Duncan: 25/11/3 2 blk 10/27 shooting 5 TO

Duncan shot below 40% 3 times in the series, Kobe 2
Duncan scored 20+ pts 4 times in the series, Kobe 20+ every game and 3 times 30+ pts

Duncan overall was a -8 in the series when he was on the floor
Kobe overall was a +10 in the series when he was on the floor

Spurs were never behind in their series, Lakers had to win their last 2 games at home to win the title..Lakers were never blown out in one game while Spurs dropped back to back games by an average of 24 points, where Duncan shot a combined 10/32 and was a combined -43 on the floor

I've seen posters say that Manu/Pau were the true MVPs of those series

Lakers vs Celtics
Pau: 19/12/4 56%TS 2.6 bpg 21%USG 101 DRTG
Kobe: 29/8/4 53%TS 2.1 spg 35,6%USG 99 DRTG

Spurs vs Pistons
Manu: 19/6/4 64%TS 1.3 spg 104 DRTG 25%USG
Duncan: 21/14/2 47%TS 2.1 bpg 100 DRTG 30%USG

There's a much better case to be made for Manu being the real 2005 FMVP than Pau being FMVP in 2010... just look at the TS% and USG% numbers, Kobe putting up 10 more pts per game than Pau while Duncan put up 2 more than Manu...or production on the road, where Lakers fell behind because Pau played like trash while KB was putting up twice as many points a game...

Spurs almost fell 2 - 3 behind in the series in OT of Game 5 due to Duncan missing a FT to win the game in the 4th...then Horry game-winner happened while TD went 0/2 in OT


Kobe shot like crap in Game 7 but he set up the Artest 3 and hit the FTs to secure the lead..overall he had a decent series, was putting up similar numbers to his 2009 series through his first 6 games...Duncan had the lowest TS% for any Finals MVP in the modern era IIRC.

SOLID.