Bernie Sanders, A Member Of The Top 10% According To New Tax Filing

[UK2K]

[QUOTE]Last Friday, 2016 Democratic Presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders

[UK2K]

Not really. $200 000 + seems like a reasonable salary for a man expected to lead a country. His education, employment history, smart decisions, experience etc have led him to that salary. Are intelligent, left-leaning politicians supposed to make minimum wage?

Hitlary Clinton on the other hand...

His salary isn't the issue, his ~13% tax rate (when Romney was blasted for weeks for his 14% tax rate) is.

I don't care what he makes, but if you are the champion of higher taxes for the common good....

[DeuceWallaces]

Mitt Romney made like 21 million you retard.

[Duderonomy]

His salary isn't the issue, his ~13% tax rate (when Romney was blasted for weeks for his 14% tax rate) is.

I don't care what he makes, but if you are the champion of higher taxes for the common good....
Romney was making a lot more. His net worth is over $250 mil and he isn't opposed to stashing money oversees and not declaring it. Bernie makes what he makes and the tax rate is what it is. He didn't use every loophole in the book.
Are we really going to say $250k is the same as $25 million a year :facepalm

[UK2K]

Romney was making a lot more. His net worth is over $250 mil and he isn't apposed to stashing money oversees and not declaring it. Bernie makes what he makes and the tax rate is what it is. He didn't use every loophole in the book.
Are we really going to say $250k is the same as $25 million a year :facepalm

What part of 'tax rate' are you having trouble understanding?

I literally said:


I don't care what he makes

The salary is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Bernie is all about raising taxes to help pay for free everything, yet he pays half the tax rate that I do, when he makes 5x as much as I do.

Notice how in my whole post, I never once mentioned a dollar amount? Because it's irrelevant. So defend Bernie's tax rate, which is less than Romney's was, without using dollar amounts. How can Romney be castrated for his tax rate when 'The Champion of Higher Taxes' pays less?

I'll make it real easy for you to understand:

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

How does Bernie pay the same tax rate as people who make less than 10k per year? And he's all about taking social security on top of that quarter million dollar salary too.

[FillJackson]

His salary isn't the issue, his ~13% tax rate (when Romney was blasted for weeks for his 14% tax rate) is.

I don't care what he makes, but if you are the champion of higher taxes for the common good....
I think this criticism is off. Bernie's schedule A looks fine. He has local taxes, mortgage interest, charity and unreimbursed job expenses.

His itemized deductions bring down his taxable income by 27%, but these are run of the mill, vanilla deductions and more importantly that are available to every taxpayer.

What Romney was criticized for a loophole that is not available to every taxpayer.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/mitt-romney-carried-interest-and-capital-gains/?_r=0


There's a gigantic difference from having large itemized deductions and the so-called "billionaire's loophole" of carried interest. It's a loophole that allows private equity firms convert their fees (which they earn at no risk) into capital gains which for Romney in 2012 would be taxed at 15%. Bernie used everyday deductions to go from the 28% bracket to the 25% bracket.

If Romney's carried interest was taxed as regular income....which it should be, because it's risk free, he would have been taxed at the top rate which was 35% in 2012, instead it was taxed at 15%. It's 39.6% now (the top capital gains rate is now 20%.)

[ALBballer]

His salary isn't the issue, his ~13% tax rate (when Romney was blasted for weeks for his 14% tax rate) is.

I don't care what he makes, but if you are the champion of higher taxes for the common good....

A few things:

1) 85% of his social security income was taxed.

2) He had an abnormally high amount of itemized deductions. It is a bit hypocritical because these are technically "loopholes" which are afforded to the middle class.

3) Bernie Sanders is pretty much a salaried employee and can't defer his income like Mitt Romney essentially did.

His tax returns don't seem out of the norm but if we want a "fairer" system to all then most of the itemized deductions should be reduced for a taxpayer like Bernie Sanders.

[ALBballer]

Mitt Romney made like 21 million you retard.

Yes but Mitt Romney did contribute close to 30% of his income to charity. If he didn't contribute to charity his effective tax rate would of been significantly higher.

[UK2K]

A few things:

1) 85% of his social security income was taxed.

2) He had an abnormally high amount of itemized deductions. It is a bit hypocritical because these are technically "loopholes" which are afforded to the middle class.

Correct.

I just find it amusing that The Champion of Higher Taxes uses every trick in the book to get out of paying them.

[Im Still Ballin]

Bernie is smart

Knows them shortcuts

Cash money

[ALBballer]

Correct.

I just find it amusing that The Champion of Higher Taxes uses every trick in the book to get out of paying them.

Yes but I think it's a false equivalence to compare his situation to Mitt Romney.

[Dresta]

I think this criticism is off. Bernie's schedule A looks fine. He has local taxes, mortgage interest, charity and unreimbursed job expenses.

His itemized deductions bring down his taxable income by 27%, but these are run of the mill, vanilla deductions and more importantly that are available to every taxpayer.

What Romney was criticized for a loophole that is not available to every taxpayer.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/mitt-romney-carried-interest-and-capital-gains/?_r=0


There's a gigantic difference from having large itemized deductions and the so-called "billionaire's loophole" of carried interest. It's a loophole that allows private equity firms convert their fees (which they earn at no risk) into capital gains which for Romney in 2012 would be taxed at 15%. Bernie used everyday deductions to go from the 28% bracket to the 25% bracket.

If Romney's carried interest was taxed as regular income....which it should be, because it's risk free, he would have been taxed at the top rate which was 35% in 2012, instead it was taxed at 15%. It's 39.6% now (the top capital gains rate is now 20%.)
If you didn't have such high tax rates, with so many deductions, then there wouldn't be so many bloody loopholes.

Bernie's playing the broken system like everyone else.

[FillJackson]

What part of 'tax rate' are you having trouble understanding? All of Bernie's income was taxed as regular income. All of Romney's was not


What is relevant is that Bernie is all about raising taxes to help pay for free everything, yet he pays half the tax rate that I do, when he makes 5x as much as I do.
This is because you are not understanding what an effective tax rate is. It is not the tax bracket you are in.

Bernie is in the 25% bracket. So he pays 25% on his taxable income (he also paid some more on self-employment income.)

Effective tax rate is the amount you paid divided by gross income NOT taxable income. This is where you are not comparing apples to apples when you talk about what tax rate he pays compared to you.


How does Bernie pay the same tax rate as people who make less than 10k per year? He does not.
Someone who made less than 10K per year owes $0 in federal taxes and thus their Effective Tax rate is 0%.
The reason they pay zero is the Standard deduction + the Personal exemption is more than $10,000. Line 43 of their 1040 would be zero.

The only thing unusual that I see in Bernie's taxes is high property taxes and high mortgage interest payments. However, he owns a house in Vermont and a condo in Washington.

[FillJackson]

The other thing to understand and you can check this on your 1040. Is when you are in the 25% tax bracket, your tax IS NOT 25% of your taxable income.
Bernie paid $26,961 on taxable income of $140 994. This is not 25%.

Tax rates are graduated. For married filing jointly, everyone pays the same tax on their first 20K roughly then they same on their next 50K and then the same on the next 50 K.

These are the rates you pay.

10% on income up to
$18,450

15% on income
$18,450 to $74,900

25%
$74,900 to $151,200

so in Bernie's case, he would have paid $1,845 + 8468 + $16,524

I'm off by $100 somewhere, but you get the point. Effective Tax Rates take deduction into account and the the fact that your first income in taxed at a lower rate of your last income.

Once you check this, you'll see you are not paying twice as high a tax rate as Bernie

[FillJackson]

If you didn't have such high tax rates, with so many deductions, then there wouldn't be so many bloody loopholes.

Bernie's playing the broken system like everyone else.
Utter rubbish.

Nothing I cited is a loophole for Bernie. He files a standard itemized deduction form like anyone else who itemizes.

[embersyc]

This is a typical tax rate for that level of income.

[Jameerthefear]

Damn. Kevin killed this man.

[DeuceWallaces]

Kind of sad. Two highly educated individuals working decades in the same field have a combined income of 200K. I don't have much else to look forward too, but it just shows you how little so many people make in this country if a combined household income of 200K gets you into the 10%.

[FillJackson]

No killing intended it's just that marginal tax rate and effective tax rates are misunderstood by probably upwards of 90% of folks.

I always have to check to see if I'm using them correctly and I'm at least aware of them.

[FillJackson]

Kind of sad. Two highly educated individuals working decades in the same field have a combined income of 200K. I don't have much else to look forward too, but it just shows you how little so many people make in this country if a combined household income of 200K gets you into the 10%.
She's virtually retired, isn't she?

Also just noticed this a Senator's Salary is

2014 -- $174,000 per annum

Bernie lists 156, 441 as his wages.

Anyone know what's up with that? Just weird accounting?

[FillJackson]

Actually, there was a government shutdown that year. Did senators lose some pay during that?

[DeuceWallaces]

She's virtually retired, isn't she?

Also just noticed this a Senator's Salary is

2014 -- $174,000 per annum

Bernie lists 156, 441 as his wages.

Anyone know what's up with that? Just weird accounting?

I kind of assumed she is either retired or basically works for him for free, but didn't feel like investigating.

What did she used to do?

Looked it up. Former President of a college. She was pulling in 2-300K (minimum) recently.

[ALBballer]

Kind of sad. Two highly educated individuals working decades in the same field have a combined income of 200K. I don't have much else to look forward too, but it just shows you how little so many people make in this country if a combined household income of 200K gets you into the 10%.

The majority of the income probably comes from Bernie Sanders and he has a decent amount of perks including great health care, pension, stipends etc. Probably has many other perks that politicians are afforded.

What I think is sad is Bernie Sanders has been making north of $100k for over 25 years and he still is paying off his homes and has a networth somewhere around $300,000. The guy finances are probably representative of your typical American with high debt and consumption. My networth is higher than his and I am not even 30 and I don't make 6 figures and have the perks of being a politicians.

[ALBballer]

She's virtually retired, isn't she?

Also just noticed this a Senator's Salary is

2014 -- $174,000 per annum

Bernie lists 156, 441 as his wages.

Anyone know what's up with that? Just weird accounting?

Yeah I wondered that as well. Maybe he is contributing to a retirement account. $18k is usually the max which would explain the discrepancy.

[Kblaze8855]

He's a sitting senator. of course he's in the top 10 percent of earners. senators get paid a lot more than dudes sweeping floors and there are way less of them than janitors...

[MP.Trey]

He only made $200,000? I thought Politics paid.

[Take Your Lumps]

He only made $200,000? I thought Politics paid.

He didn't work hard enough for the money
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iN5NzJMjAE

[NumberSix]

He only made $200,000? I thought Politics paid.
That's AFTER your term in office.

[FillJackson]

She was pulling in 2-300K (minimum) recently. This gets you closer to the 1% which might be why Bernie only released one year.

[Sarcastic]

What did Trump pay in taxes?

[UK2K]

The other thing to understand and you can check this on your 1040. Is when you are in the 25% tax bracket, your tax IS NOT 25% of your taxable income.
Bernie paid $26,961 on taxable income of $140 994. This is not 25%.

Tax rates are graduated. For married filing jointly, everyone pays the same tax on their first 20K roughly then they same on their next 50K and then the same on the next 50 K.

These are the rates you pay.

10% on income up to
$18,450

15% on income
$18,450 to $74,900

25%
$74,900 to $151,200

so in Bernie's case, he would have paid $1,845 + 8468 + $16,524

I'm off by $100 somewhere, but you get the point. Effective Tax Rates take deduction into account and the the fact that your first income in taxed at a lower rate of your last income.

Once you check this, you'll see you are not paying twice as high a tax rate as Bernie

Nice explanation.

The point was really Bernie plays the same game that corporate America plays (minus hiding money in offshore accounts), despite speaking out against it.

That, and this:


According to the filings, Jane Sanders earned $4,900 as a commissioner for the Texas Low-Level Radioactive Waste Disposal Compact Commission, established by Congress in by the Compact Consent Act of 1998. According to the commission website, members are only required to attend a single annual meeting to fulfill their duties and collect their $4,900 check.

It's just a game, and he's playing it like everyone else.

[UK2K]

She's virtually retired, isn't she?

Also just noticed this a Senator's Salary is

2014 -- $174,000 per annum

Bernie lists 156, 441 as his wages.

Anyone know what's up with that? Just weird accounting?

This have anything to do with it?


As it turns out, Bernie and Jane Sanders earned $205,617 in 2014, more than enough to put them in the beleaguered top 10% of the household income distribution according to data from the U.S. Census Bureau (this remains true even after taking out $46,000 in Social Security benefits).


Despite the fact that Sanders rests comfortably in the top 10%, the return also shows that the couple earned nearly $46,000 in Social Security benefits (in addition to an annual $5,000 pension).

Does a couple in the top 10%, earning about $161,000 before benefits, really need to be receiving $46,000 in social security benefits from a government entitlement program that is nearly bankrupt? With the internal U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio approaching 100%, one might be inclined to argue no as many bipartisan scholars have tried to make the case for means-tested social security payouts.

[DonDadda59]

What did Trump pay in taxes?

The Donald, who is under indictment for federal RICO/fraud charges, refuses to release any of his tax returns.

[KyrieTheFuture]

So is your point that Democrat candidates should be on welfare or something?

[NumberSix]

So is your point that Democrat candidates should be on welfare or something?
His point is quite obviously that people who do everything they can to pay as little tax as possible shouldn't be demanding that everybody else pay more taxes.

[UK2K]

His point is quite obviously that people who do everything they can to pay as little tax as possible shouldn't be demanding that everybody else pay more taxes.

Simple. Straight to the point. :cheers:

[DeuceWallaces]

He only made $200,000? I thought Politics paid.

He's going to be hella banking on speeches after this election. Before this cycle he was a nobody on the national stage. Now he's a hero to a bunch of idiot kids.

[DeuceWallaces]

You two have zero critical thinking skills. There's 30 posts explaining the monumental differences between the Bern and Mitt but you two morons chime in at the end like you proved some grand point.

[Sarcastic]

His point is quite obviously that people who do everything they can to pay as little tax as possible shouldn't be demanding that everybody else pay more taxes.

How much should he have paid?

[FillJackson]

The point was really Bernie plays the same game that corporate America plays (minus hiding money in offshore accounts), despite speaking out against it.


I just find it amusing that The Champion of Higher Taxes uses every trick in the book to get out of paying them.

His point is quite obviously that people who do everything they can to pay as little tax as possible shouldn't be demanding that everybody else pay more taxes.
This is just nonsense.

They are using deductions available to everyone. What tricks are they using? If they are advocating changes to the tax code, those changes would also apply to them. This is available to everyone who uses TurboTax. Everyone who walks into HR Block.
There is zero hypocrisy going on.



Here's his actual tax return
http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturns.nsf/Returns/9900B87E8AE6AF0C85257EB4004E9F66/$file/B_Sanders_2014.pdf

[I know you are]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonhartley/2016/04/20/bernie-sanders-a-member-of-the-top-10-according-to-new-tax-filing/#7d6aa12e4fd9

Isn't it ironic? Don't ya think?

Remember when Romney was blasted for paying 14% tax? Once again, the left uses it's propaganda tool (the MSM) to help narrate the political election.



Another 'do as I say, not as I do' candidate?
No, not ironic. The gap between the 1% and the 10% is absolutely massive. That is why the 1% is always talked about.

[embersyc]

His point is quite obviously that people who do everything they can to pay as little tax as possible shouldn't be demanding that everybody else pay more taxes.

I'm pretty certain that all Americans are currently following the same tax law. :biggums:

[KyrieTheFuture]

I guess following the instructions on your e-filer is gaming the system now. Not like this dude showed up in the Panama Papers holding 10 mil overseas.

[DeuceWallaces]

The one thing clear is that UK2K and NumberSix have never done their own taxes. I could have done Bernies taxes for him with TurboTax Deluxe and gotten the same result.

[highwhey]

The one thing clear is that UK2K and NumberSix have never done their own taxes. I could have done Bernies taxes for him with TurboTax Deluxe and gotten the same result.
:roll:

Thread backfired on OP

[longtime lurker]

God damn UK2K and Numbersix getting their asses handed to them as usual. Talk about a thread backfire

[NumberSix]

This is just nonsense.

They are using deductions available to everyone. What tricks are they using? If they are advocating changes to the tax code, those changes would also apply to them. This is available to everyone who uses TurboTax. Everyone who walks into HR Block.
There is zero hypocrisy going on.



Here's his actual tax return
http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturns.nsf/Returns/9900B87E8AE6AF0C85257EB4004E9F66/$file/B_Sanders_2014.pdf
Right, and the way Mitt Romney does his taxes is totally legal too. I seem to remember lefties making arguments other than this current "rules is rules" argument that you are making as to why he paid like 14%.

The difference though is that Mitt Romney gives a fortune to charity whereas Bernie Sanders gives nothing.

[FillJackson]

God damn UK2K and Numbersix getting their asses handed to them as usual. Talk about a thread backfire
This is just a dry run for Democratic Politics in Sept-Oct-Nov.

[Nanners]

you have to be a legit ****ing idiot to think romney and sanders are remotely comparable in income

mitt romney makes $100 dollars for each $1 made by bernie sanders.

bernie sanders is a senator. this country has 100 senators. romney makes as much money as all 100 US senators combined.

$20,000,000 vs $200,000.

two orders of magnitude.

[FillJackson]

Right, and the way Mitt Romney does his taxes is totally legal too. I seem to remember lefties making arguments other than this current "rules is rules" argument that you are making as to why he paid like 14%.

The difference though is that Mitt Romney gives a fortune to charity whereas Bernie Sanders gives nothing.

Declaring management fees which are ordinary income wages and claiming them to be carried interest capital gains is illegal (http://victorfleischer.com/archives/306). It's an illegality that happens just a bit futher up the chain. [QUOTE]Fund VII. Gawker today posted some Bain documents today showing that Bain, like many other PE firms, had engaged in this practice of converting management fees into capital gain. Unlike carried interest, which is unseemly but perfectly legal, Bain

[NumberSix]

Declaring management fees which are ordinary income wages and claiming them to be carried interest capital gains is illegal (http://victorfleischer.com/archives/306). It's an illegality that happens just a bit futher up the chain.

Giving $100 million dollars to your children without paying the gift tax and getting guaranteed profits as capital gains are legal loopholes. However, they are not available to all taxpayers and should be closed.

The idea that any of the above is equivalent to the local tax deductions or mortgage interest payments of the middle class is ****ing insane.
You seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't fault Bernie for pay as little tax as he is legally obligated. That's fine. It's his money. Any sane person wants to keep as much of their own money as possible. I'm just not sure that 13% would into his own definition of "fair share" that he espouses for everyone else.

[KyrieTheFuture]

You seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't fault Bernie for pay as little tax as he is legally obligated. That's fine. It's his money. Any sane person wants to keep as much of their own money as possible. I'm just not sure that 13% would into his own definition of "fair share" that he espouses for everyone else.
So you're saying if he enacted his laws he would commit fraud because he doesn't want to pay his fair share? Just admit you ****ed up on this one Jesus Christ man. I've admitted when I'm wrong, I believe in you, you can do it too.

[NumberSix]

So you're saying if he enacted his laws he would commit fraud because he doesn't want to pay his fair share? Just admit you ****ed up on this one Jesus Christ man. I've admitted when I'm wrong, I believe in you, you can do it too.
Huh? What am I wrong about? Lol. I said the guy uses everything available to reduce how much tax he pays. It ain't wrong.