PROOF why Wilt was overrated.

[riseagainst]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOS7lNTABzc

And why Curry, Lebron, Durant and today's star would completely and utterly sh1t on Wilt's era.

Backed with nothing but facts and unbiased opinions.

Enjoy.

:rockon:

[SouBeachTalents]

Even adjusted for pace Wilt still averages peak Shaq/Kareem numbers

[inclinerator]

Even adjusted for pace Wilt still averages peak Shaq/Kareem numbers
what about adjusted for playing in blowout games

[G-train]

Adjusting for pace carries far too many assumptions.
What we know is what happened - he kicked the leagues ass.
The league being the best of the best at that time.

[jlip]

Yawn....

Every few months somebody posts a video or does a thread reguritating the same stale arguments about Wilt or some other star from the 60s being overrated as if they have uncovered something new.

[hold this L]

The league was absolute garbage in that era other a few stars. It's not really groundbreaking. Wilt would dominate in any era, just obviously nowhere near as much as he did when he played vs so many scrubs.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Even adjusted for pace Wilt still averages peak Shaq/Kareem numbers

After adjusting for dwarfism he doesn't.

[Psileas]

Op, it's not our fault that you and your fellow bullshitters either suffer from Alzheimer's or are too retarded to have realized that all this crap has been destroyed ad nauseam. :sleeping


Even adjusted for pace Wilt still averages peak Shaq/Kareem numbers

And this doesn't even take into account fatigue (48 mpg=zero rest during games, plus, not 164 timeouts available back then, unlike today's *******, who can't even play 6 minutes in a row without a freakin' timeout being called or a period ending :oldlol: ) or the absolute trash that call themselves centers today.
LOL, Wilt was shitting on 80's centers in his mid 40's in strong pickup games, what he'd be doing in today's weak league, especially with today's technology, is unfathomable. :eek:

[inclinerator]

Op, it's not our fault that you and your fellow bullshitters either suffer from Alzheimer's or are too retarded to have realized that all this crap has been destroyed ad nauseam. :sleeping



And this doesn't even take into account fatigue (48 mpg=zero rest during games, plus, not 164 timeouts available back then, unlike today's *******, who can't even play 6 minutes in a row without a freakin' timeout being called or a period ending :oldlol: ) or the absolute trash that call themselves centers today.
LOL, Wilt was shitting on 80's centers in his mid 40's in strong pickup games, what he'd be doing in today's weak league, especially with today's technology, is unfathomable. :eek:
anyone can play 48 minutes against ymca competition

[SpaceJam]

Damn Wilt DEBUNKED.

[AirFederer]

https://i.imgflip.com/qosj8.gif

https://i.imgflip.com/rq4j8.gif

[Psileas]

anyone can play 48 minutes against ymca competition

I never said Wilt wouldn't be able to play 48 mpg today, OK?

[OmniStrife]

Damn watching the footage is all the evidence I need for seeing what an absolute trash can the NBA was back then compared to today.

[Round Mound]

You cant be overrated when they change the rules cause of you. :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not a bad video. Watched it a few days ago. The narrator actually adjusts Wilt's numbers properly, or at least more logically than the few posters who've attempted to do so here.

Honestly though, even somebody with a tenuous grasp on basketball history and its evolution understands that Wilt isn't averaging 50ppg today... It's just not good basketball.

[fourkicks44]

A player averages over 50 point per game and doesn't win the MVP award and the MVP doesn't even make it to the all NBA first team?

Tough era.

[Gileraracer]

Even adjusted for pace Wilt still averages peak Shaq/Kareem numbers

But can you adjust the hight and lack of athleticism of these midgets back then to todays players?

[LAZERUSS]

But can you adjust the hight and lack of athleticism of these midgets back then to todays players?

Russell was one of the shorter starting centers of the 60's...and was the same exact height as Cousins, Jordan, Drummond, and Dwight. Oh, and tell me how many of today's centers are world-ranked in the high jump.

[SpanishACB]

the funniest part is that even when they adjust stats, Wilt takes 10-20 more FGA than modern players. So 60's Curry could score 70 with those FGA.

W

[LAZERUSS]

the funniest part is that even when they adjust stats, Wilt takes 10-20 more FGA than modern players. So 60's Curry could score 70 with those FGA.

W

Not without a 3pt line. In fact, if he would miss a couple of 25+ foot shots in a row, he would have been benched the rest of the game.

[SpaceJam]

Russell was one of the shorter starting centers of the 60's...and was the same exact height as Cousins, Jordan, Drummond, and Dwight. Oh, and tell me how many of today's centers are world-ranked in the high jump.

Was a weak era for high jump tbh

[LAZERUSS]

Was a weak era for high jump tbh

Cousins has a 28" vertical.

[Psileas]

Not without a 3pt line. In fact, if he would miss a couple of 25+ foot shots in a row, he would have been benched the rest of the game.

People don't seem to grasp that in the 60's there was no 3 pointer and that, without it, current Curry is merely a 25 ppg scorer and last season's MVP Curry is barely above 20 ppg.
Oh, and that, with 60's medicine and athletiatrics (plus fewer rounds), it wouldn't be "Curry out for 2 weeks", it would be "Curry out for the rest of the season".

Btw, Wilt's adjusted FGA's wouldn't be anywhere near 10-20 FGA's more than today's stars. Are you kidding me, this isn't even the case if you don't adjust them at all.

[pudman13]

The bigger issue is that they still called palming well into the 70s. Players like Curry or Kyrie Irving would have to completely relearn their game.

[fourkicks44]

The bigger issue is that they still called palming well into the 70s. Players like Curry or Kyrie Irving would have to completely relearn their game.

No crab dribble?

[riseagainst]

https://i.imgflip.com/qosj8.gif

https://i.imgflip.com/rq4j8.gif


:lol

[G-train]

Damn watching the footage is all the evidence I need for seeing what an absolute trash can the NBA was back then compared to today.

They were among the best athletes in the world. 50 ppg isn't enough for some people, they expect Wilt to time travel to modern times and play.

[LAZERUSS]

Op, it's not our fault that you and your fellow bullshitters either suffer from Alzheimer's or are too retarded to have realized that all this crap has been destroyed ad nauseam. :sleeping



And this doesn't even take into account fatigue (48 mpg=zero rest during games, plus, not 164 timeouts available back then, unlike today's *******, who can't even play 6 minutes in a row without a freakin' timeout being called or a period ending :oldlol: ) or the absolute trash that call themselves centers today.
LOL, Wilt was shitting on 80's centers in his mid 40's in strong pickup games, what he'd be doing in today's weak league, especially with today's technology, is unfathomable. :eek:

It's too bad that Kiki Vandeweghe's interview on YouTube has since been deleted...

(Wilt's Revenge)...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2438623&postcount=1

But for those that never had the opportunity to view it, Kiki claims that he witnessed a summer league pickup game in the mid-80's, which featured Mark Eaton and Wilt. At one point one of the players dunked on Chamberlain, and the many fans erupted. On the next play, the ball went into Wilt, who just overpowered a helpless Eaton, and threw down a thunderous dunk on him. The entire crowd was stunned...and Wilt proceeded to walk out of the gym.

Of course, there were other Wilt sightings in the 80's, as well, including none other than Larry Brown...

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/oct/13/sports/sp-21887


Of all his memories of Wilt Chamberlain, the one that stood out for Larry Brown happened long after Chamberlain's professional career had ended.

On a summer day in the early 1980s, when Brown was coaching at UCLA, Chamberlain showed up at Pauley Pavilion to take part in one of the high-octane pickup games that the arena attracted.

"Magic Johnson used to run the games," Brown recalled Tuesday after hearing that Chamberlain, his friend, had died at 63, "and he called a couple of chintzy fouls and a goaltending on Wilt.

"So Wilt said: 'There will be no more layups in this gym,' and he blocked every shot after that. That's the truth, I saw it. He didn't let one [of Johnson's] shots get to the rim."

Chamberlain would have been in his mid-40s at the time, and he remained in top physical shape until recently.



Here is footage of a 36 year old Wilt going up against Artis Gilmore in the '72 NBA-ABA ASG...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1utx7OxiaoU


How about Wilt, in his LAST season, and playing against the elite centers of the NBA...

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continued...



Chamberlain, at age 36, and in his LAST season vs the best centers in the league:


Vs. Cowens in 4 H2H's:

Cowens: 31.3 ppg, 19.8 rpg, .454 FG%

Wilt: 14.3 ppg, 14.5 rpg, .588 FG%



vs. Reed in 3 regular season H2H's:

Reed: 12.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, .471 FG%

Wilt: 6.3 ppg, 23.3 rpg, .529 FG%

vs. Reed in 5 Finals' H2H's:

Reed: 16.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, .493 FG%

Wilt: 11.6 ppg, 18.6 rpg, .525 FG%


vs. Bellamy in 4 H2H's:

Bellamy: 17.0 ppg, 18.0 rpg ( 2 known games), .400 FG% (2 known game)

Wilt: 9.8 ppg, 20.5 rpg, .593 FG%


vs. Unseld in 4 H2H's:

Unseld: 12.8 ppg, 15.3 rpg, .481 FG%

Wilt: 12.8 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .769 FG%


vs. McAdoo in 4 H2H's:

McAdoo: 16.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, .450 FG% (3 known games)

Wilt: 20.5 ppg, 21.3 rpg, .850 FG%


vs. Thurmond in 7 regular season H2H's:

Thurmond: 12.3 ppg, 21.6 rpg, .315 FG%

Wilt: 5.1 ppg, 16.6 rpg, .684 FG%

vs. Thurmond in 5 playoff H2H's:

Thurmond: 15.8 ppg, 17.2 rpg, .373 FG%

Wilt: 7.0 ppg, 23.6 rpg, .611 FG%


vs. Lanier in 6 H2H's:

Lanier: 21.2 ppg, 13.4 rpg (5 known games), .374 FG% (5 known games)

Wilt: 19.8 ppg, 16.3 rpg, .764 FG%



vs. Kareem in 6 H2H's:

Kareem: 29.5 ppg, 17.8 rpg, .450 FG%

Wilt: 11.0 ppg, 16.0 rpg, .737 FG%



Some interesting numbers. Cowens certainly outplayed Wilt, albeit, in his one known game, he still only shot .429 from the field.

As ALWAYS, Chamberlain reduced Thurmond to just AWFUL FG%'s (in the two known games in the regular season, Nate shot 3-9 and 2-14...and then in his five playoff H2H's, he only shot .373 overall.) And while Nate outrebounded Wilt in their regular season H2H's, as ALWAYS, Chamberlain just cleaned his clock on the glass in their playoff H2H's.

Willis Reed didn't do much of anything against Wilt in their regular season H2H's, and while he won the FMVP, SOMEBODY had to win it. If anything, Chamberlain outplayed him (again) in their Finals matchup (and in the clinching game, he badly outplayed him.)

Bellamy? I doubt that there has ever been one HOFer who so thoroughly dominated another over the course of so many seasons. Even into his LAST season, Chamberlain continued to own Bellamy. And this likely was one of Bellamy's closest seasons against Wilt.

How about rookie Bob McAdoo? Talk about pure domination...Wilt SLAUGHTERED McAdoo in every conceivable facet of the game. He easily outscored him, badly outrebounded him, and shot an unfathomable .850 from the field (again, all while averaging 20.5 ppg against him.)

Bob Lanier? Wilt more than held his own a PRIME Lanier. In fact, he easily outplayed him overall. And look at their FG%'s. In his three known games, Lanier shot a paltry .400 from the field, while Wilt not only averaged 20 ppg against him, he also shot a staggering .764 from the floor. And BTW, in Lanier's highest scoring game against Wilt, he only shot 13-30 from the field (.433), so his actual total FG% likely was very close to the known .400 mark.

Kareem outscored and outrebounded Wilt in their six regular season H2H's, but as almost always, Chamberlain reduced KAJ's FG% by more than 10%. Kareem only shot over 50% twice in their six H2H's, and had games of 12-31, 10-27, and 11-30 from the field against Wilt. In fact, Chamberlain even outscored Kareem in one H2H, by a 24-21 margin, while outshooting him from the field by a 10-14 to 10-27 margin.

I didn't include Elvin Hayes, because he was now a PF alongside Unseld.

In any case, Chamberlain was not only blocking a KNOWN 5.4 bpg in his LAST season, he was DRAMATICALLY lowering the efficiency of the top centers in the league. All at age 36.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continued...


In his first 20 straight H2H games with that 6-11 HOFer (who would measure over 7-0 in today's NBA)...Chamberlain averaged...get this... 48.2 ppg...COMBINED. THREE games of 60+, and a plethora of 50+ point games.

A PEAK Kareem's high game against the same guy...41 points, followed by a game of 39, and then 35...in 25 H2H games.

FIVE games of 50+ against the 6-9 1/2 Russell, and world-ranked high-jumper, with a high of 62. BTW, Russell was the same exact height as DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard, Andre Drummond, and Demarcus Cousins.

Multiple 60+ point games against the likes of Imhoff, Fox, and Dierking. And yet a PEAK Kareem also faced those same centers, except they were on the downside of their careers, and never sniffed a 50 point game.

Or the multiple 50+ point games that Chamberlain hung on Willis Reed. A peak KAJ's high game against Reed... 41 points.

A prime "scoring" Chamberlain just slaughtered a prime Thurmond in the course of 13 straight games, with SIX games of 30+, including highs of 38 and 45 points. A PEAK Kareem faced an aging full-time Nate in 35 H2H games, and had FIVE of 30+, with a high of 34. Oh, and Wilt had a season of 21 ppg on a .633 FG% against Thurmond. Kareem never approached that FG% in his seasonal H2H's with Nate. In fact, while Chamberlain shot over .540 against Thurmond (and held him to an unfathomable .360 career FG% against him)...KAJ's career FG% against a full-time Nate... .447.

The reality was, a prime Chamberlain was FAR more dominant against the same centers that a prime Kareem would also face a few years later.

[LAZERUSS]

Here is another example of Wilt's dominance...his very first H2H game against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy. Keep in mind that Bellamy came into this game averaging nearly 30 ppg...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11204851&postcount=1

Chamberlain blocked Bellamy's first NINE straight shots, en route to outscoring him by a 51-14 margin.

BTW, just how tall was Bellamy?

How about NBA super scout Marty Blake...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/15/sports/basketball/15TALL.html


Some players prefer to be smaller than they actually are. Blake said Walt Bellamy, a Hall of Famer, asked to be listed at 6-11 even though he was 7 feet tall.

"I know he was 7 feet, but Walt thought it made him look extraordinarily tall," Blake said.

[LAZERUSS]

Of course the "bashers" claim that Wilt faced inferior competition, and played in an era of high pace.

At some point, or another, in his 14 NBA seasons, Wilt faced...Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, Wes Unseld, Clyde Lovellette, Elvin Hayes, Dave Cowens, Bob Lanier, Bob McAdoo, Nate Thurmond, Bill Russell, and KAJ. And if you include the '72 NBA-ABA ASG...Artis Gilmore. ALL in the HOF.

And again, a prime Chamberlain was just shelling the likes of Russell, Reed, Bellamy, and even Thurmond (the same Nate who reduced a peak Kareem to a shot-jacking brick-layer.) He had three separate seasons, with between 9 to 13 H2H's, against Russell, in which he averaged 38.1 ppg, 39.1 ppg, and even 39.7 ppg. Included were 24 games of 40+, with five of 50+, and a high of 62.

He had a season against Reed of 38.6 ppg, which included beat-downs by margins of 46-25, 41-9, 52-23, and 58-28.

He had a long career of just crushing Bellamy, including a two year span, covering 20 straight H2H games of...get this... a cumulative average of 48.2 ppg. Included were four games of 60+, and a high of 73 points.

He only faced Thurmond in his "scoring" seasons, in '64-65, and 65-66. However, if you include their first H2H game of the '67 season, in a span of 13 H2H games, Chamberlain hung a total of six 30+ point games on Nate, including carpet-bombing him by margins of 30-10, 33-17, 38-15, and 45-13. Again, a peak Kareem faced a full-time Nate in some 35 H2H games, and had a total of five 30+ point games, with a high of 34.

[90sgoat]

Did you hear him talk about assists being inflated in this era?

That's why Westbrook averages 10 and Plumlee 8 in the playoffs.

Today, you get an assist for making a post entry pass with the center then making moves and scoring, that's not an assist in the 60s or even in the 90s. Today you get an assist for passing the ball to a guy on the break who takes 3 dribbles and 2 steps, that's not an assist in the 60s or 90s.

You also have to adjust players of today for their far higher free throw rate, you have to adjust for their far higher And-1 plays again due to absurd interpretation of the continuation rule.

All in all, it evens out, when I see Blake Griffin last year average like 30-8-8, you know it is inflated stats too.

A lot of players today would have far lower assist numbers if called 90s style only, very few real 10+ assist guys left in the league if old school rules.

[LAZERUSS]

A small sample of Wilt's domination...

In his 14 seasons in the league, there were a total of 37 60+ point games. Five combined by all the other players in the league in those 14 seasons... and 32 by Wilt.

Career 30-30 games:

Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplsihed that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)

Chamberlain has the THREE highest "perfect games from the field" in NBA history, with games of 15-15, 16-16, and 18-18 (BTW, he also had an 18-19 game.)

Wilt also made 35 straight FGAs.

If "estimated" blocks are even remotely close, Chamberlain had the most Triple Doubles in NBA history, and certainly the most Quad-Doubles.

And why the NBA lists Elmore Smith's 17 block game in '74 as the record is beyond me. True, blocked shots were not "officially" kept until that season, BUT, in a NATIONALL TELEVISED game in 1968, Chamberlain had a RECORDED 23 blocks. There are also now MANY "estimated" 20+ block games by Chamberlain (but not verifiable.)

Wilt also had a KNOWN Triple Double game of 53 points, on 24-29 shooting, with 32 rebounds, and 14 assists. Not only that, but he had "estimated" blocks and steals of 24 and 11 respectively.

Chamberlain also had a Triple Double game in the post-season of 16 points, 30 rebounds, and 19 assists (and a questionable "estimated" 20 blocked shots.)

Chamberlain also has the ONLY 20-20-20 game in NBA history (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 assists.)

Wilt has FOUR of the SIX 60+ games on .700 FG% shooting (Karl Malone and David Thompson each have one.) And his .829 mark (29-35) is the all-time record. BTW, that 66 point game was his LAST 60+ point game.

How about this...

In Wilt's LAST post-season, and covering 17 games, Chamberlain averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg team. The next highest rpg since... Garnett's 18.3 rpg in a 3 game series, and KAJ's 17.3 rpg in 11 post-season games.

I could go on...

but ask yourself this...

Why Only Wilt????

[Asukal]

ILt isn't even top 10 anymore. A closer look at all his blunders put him out of the top 10 permanently. The guy couldn't destroy an injured Reed in a must win game ffs. Probably the most shameful choke of all his performances. :facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

ILt isn't even top 10 anymore. A closer look at all his blunders put him out of the top 10 permanently. The guy couldn't destroy an injured Reed in a must win game ffs. Probably the most shameful choke of all his performances. :facepalm

You mean the Wilt who was only four months removed from major knee surgery, and was nowhere near 100%, who outscored Reed in that must win game by a 21-4 margin; outrebounded him, 24-3; and outshot him from the floor by a .625 to .400 margin?

Oh, and for the series, Chamberlain averaged 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shot .625 from the field.

[LAZERUSS]

The OP brought up Wilt's 61-62 season...

how about later on in his career...


Chamberlain's '69-70 season could have been one of the most interesting of his career. I say could have, simply because he shredded his knee in the ninth game of the season, and essentially missed the rest of it (he did come back to play the last three games of the regular season.)

Again, with a new coach, Joe Mullaney...Wilt was asked to play the role of scorer again. Mullaney realized that the Butcher's strategy of Baylor being a key player in the offense was a disaster. So his first order of business was to go WILT, and ask WILT to become the focal point of the offense.

Chamberlain relished this role, and in fact, was leading the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%, with 20.6 rpg) when he went down with that horrific injury. BTW, West was STILL averaging 30.8 ppg at that time. Oh, and in that ninth game, Chamberlain scored 33 points, on 13-14 shooting...in 28 minutes. In other words, he was on pace for an easy 40+ point game, and perhaps yet another 50 point game. For the sake of argument, let's assume that Wilt would have scored 50 points in that game (he had a 66 point game against that same team the year before BTW)...that would have meant that he would have been averaging 34.1 ppg thru those nine games (and again, on a .579 FG%.)

Then think about this: Kareem (Alcindor) was a rookie in that same season. He would put up a 28.8 ppg, .518 F%, 14.5 rpp season. Two years later, in '71-72, he would have the greatest regular season of his entire career, with a 34.8 ppg, 16.6 rpg, .574 season.

So, here was a 32 year old Wilt, on pace for a season that was essentially the equal (actually better, since he was a much better defensive player) of a PEAK Kareem.

And before someone suggests that nine games is a small sample size, Wilt's numbers were not inflated by one or two big games. He had games of 33 (that might have been 50), 35, 37 (against 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle, who used to give KAJ fits), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against Bob Rule...go ahead and look him up), and 43 (against Connie Dierking...whom BTW, KAJ's highest career game was 41 points.) Oh, and in their one H2H before Wilt's injury...Chamberlain easily outplayed Kareem. He outscored him, 25-23; outrebounded him, 25-20; outassisted him, 5-2; outblocked him, 3-2 (including two sky hooks); and outshot him from the floor, 9-14 to 9-21.

Of course, after shredding his knee, Wilt was never the same player again. True, he could still occassionally hang a 32-31 game on 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier, or even a 45 point Finals game, but his lateral quickness took a big hit, and he was never again the dominant unstoppable scorer that he had been.

BTW, Chamberlain had the HIGH scoring game in the NBA in every season of the decade of the 60's...even in his lessor scoring seasons. For instance, in his '67 season, he went out and hung a 58 point game. In his '68 season he had games of 52, 53, 53, and 68. Even under the idiotic VBK, he still had games of 60, and 66.