Why do the Bulls fans think Derrick Rose is better than Damian Lillard?

[Human Error]

When I talk to the Bulls fans, they always automatically consider Derrick Rose a legitimate superstar and put him in the same category as Curry, Lebron, Westbrook and Durant, which is a notch higher than Lillard. Why?

[G0ATbe]

Because he won MVP a long time ago and will "get back to form" someday.

[kamil]

Bulls fan here:

Rose is done. You'd have to be an idiot to think he's on Dame's level. Pre-injury though, Rose was amazing, but those days are gone.

[Legends66NBA7]

OP has never talked to single Bulls fan in his life. Weak ass bait.


How someone does this for 10 years is mentally ill.

[Inferno]

Rose's MVP year: 25/4/8 on 45/33/86 shooting, 55% TS

Lillard this year: 25/4/7 on 42/38/89 shooting, 56% TS

[Cold soul]

Rose is done being elite superstar player you won't ever see old Rose again maybe flashes here and there but that's it.

[fourkicks44]

Was better


Rose's MVP year: 25/4/8 on 45/33/86 shooting, 55% TS

Lillard this year: 25/4/7 on 42/38/89 shooting, 56% TS

While Lillard has had a great year and may be MVP in the future, please remember that during Rose's MVP year the Bulls were the best team in the league and championship favourites. Portland this year is neither of those.

[navy]

Why do people keep acting like Rose wasnt good before injuries

[nathanjizzle]

Because he is. rose has played lillard 3 times, all after his injury, and his stats are still similar. sick, a healthy prime lillard cant outduel a 3 knee surgury rose whos been out of the game for 2 seasons? sick.

head to head stats

Derrick Rose 2 1 31.3 9.0 21.0 .429 1.0 3.3 .300 3.7 4.0 .917 0.3 3.7 4.0 4.7 1.0 0.0 2.7 1.7 22.7
Damian Lillard 1 2 37.7 7.7 19.0 .404 3.3 7.3 .455 6.0 7.0 .857 0.3 5.3 5.7 6.7 0.3 0.3 2.7 4.0 24.7

[BasedTom]

Why do people keep acting like Rose wasnt good before injuries
He was always overrated as ****

people act like his 2011 was this mythical season when it was without doubt one of the weaker MVP campaigns in history. Right now, Russell Westbrook is having a considerably better year and he's going to be the runner up to Steph.

He's a fraud.

[BasedTom]

Because he is.
http://img.ctrlv.in/img/16/04/29/57229b0101183.png

[Pointguard]

He was always overrated as ****

people act like his 2011 was this mythical season when it was without doubt one of the weaker MVP campaigns in history. Right now, Russell Westbrook is having a considerably better year and he's going to be the runner up to Steph.

He's a fraud.
He definitely wasn't overrated. Sorry. What he did was stellar. There were 10 HOFers either his age or having near peak seasons within a year of it. And all of them fared horribly when put in new situations or were put situations where injuries were rampant one time or the other. His coach was brand new to running offensive sets and never was good at it. They dominated the top 8 teams in the league totally based on Rose's execution in the fourth quarter. Since then no star has come close to carrying an injury plagued, young team to the best record. No one has been close. Hell Westbrook has been on a very veteran team with the best scorer ever and they haven't come close after what? 7 years now?

To avoid the craziness, just name me another player thats done what he's done.

[Pointguard]

OP has never talked to single Bulls fan in his life. Weak ass bait.


How someone does this for 10 years is mentally ill.
LOL, I'm pretty sure he hasn't talked to anybody in 5 years which explains why his very strange conversation took place like that. He probably put a Bulls hat on a mannequin and we have to take it at that.

[Lebronxrings]

hes mad overrated. People hyped him up only for him to become lebrons punching bag in the playoffs.

[G-train]

When I talk to the Bulls fans, they always automatically consider Derrick Rose a legitimate superstar and put him in the same category as Curry, Lebron, Westbrook and Durant, which is a notch higher than Lillard. Why?

I don't think a Bulls fan that watches Bulls games would think that. Unless they are very low bball IQ fans.

[LilEddyCurry]

Even in Rose's MVP year he was not even a top 5 player in the league. At the time people did not know that:

1. Bulls always overachieve in the regular season.
2. How good of a coach Thibs was.
3. The impact that Noah brings.
4. The scoring numbers that Rose put up + his athletic and aesthetically pleasing style of play made 'fans' believe that he was better than he was.

LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Howard and Durant were all better that year.

[Pointguard]

hes mad overrated. People hyped him up only for him to become lebrons punching bag in the playoffs.
And Lebron was Dirk's punching bag that year. He beat a healthy Rose once when Rose had a good team. WoW!!! And Lebron was in his prime and Rose was a kid. Not only that but Lebron was a zombie after that Rose series.

[Pointguard]

Even in Rose's MVP year he was not even a top 5 player in the league. At the time people did not know that:

1. Bulls always overachieve in the regular season.
2. How good of a coach Thibs was.
3. The impact that Noah brings.
4. The scoring numbers that Rose put up + his athletic and aesthetically pleasing style of play made 'fans' believe that he was better than he was.

LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Howard and Durant were all better that year.
Well we will focus on what you don't know.

1. Give me another example when the Bulls dominated the elite, had the best record despite crazy injuries. And what other years are you saying they overachieved in the regular season?
2. Thibs was a good defensive motivator. But its inexcusable when your professional team can't break a trap. You learn that before HS.
3. Noah sucked that year. You don't know what you are talking about. They dominated the elite teams after Noah went down. Noah was benched twice in the 4th quarter in the ECF.
4. They dominated the elite teams in the 4th quarter because of Rose's execution. This team was NOT a veteran team, a super talented team, a healthy team, experienced team but WAS a young injured team with over 20 different starting line-ups, a first year coach, second and third best players missing 67 games.

Durant had no effect that is comparable to Rose's effect. Kobe's play fell off tremendously that year because he was tired. With those two you are just being silly. Lebron and Wade were on the same team that had three superstars who were healthier along with veteran help and still didn't win as many games. Rose was significantly better than all of the other super stars in critical games, games against the elite and each other, and was more consistent throughout the year.

[Lebronxrings]

And Lebron was Dirk's punching bag that year. He beat a healthy Rose once when Rose had a good team. WoW!!! And Lebron was in his prime and Rose was a kid. Not only that but Lebron was a zombie after that Rose series.
lebron shut prime rose down after all the hype about the bulls and rose surpassing lebron. He also beat the bulls singlehandedly last year in the playoffs. The two comparisons aren't similar at all.

[Pointguard]

lebron shut prime rose down after all the hype about the bulls and rose surpassing lebron. He also beat the bulls singlehandedly last year in the playoffs. The two comparisons aren't similar at all.
If a 22 year old Rose was going to surpass prime Lebron on super collude mode, Lebron would have to be all hype and no substance. No questions asked. Don't you have some pride in Bron. That wasn't a reality at that time and you know it. Rose wasn't healthy last year, nor was his team much.

[LilEddyCurry]

Well we will focus on what you don't know.

1. Give me another example when the Bulls dominated the elite, had the best record despite crazy injuries. And what other years are you saying they overachieved in the regular season?
2. Thibs was a good defensive motivator. But its inexcusable when your professional team can't break a trap. You learn that before HS.
3. Noah sucked that year. You don't know what you are talking about. They dominated the elite teams after Noah went down. Noah was benched twice in the 4th quarter in the ECF.
4. They dominated the elite teams in the 4th quarter because of Rose's execution. This team was NOT a veteran team, a super talented team, a healthy team, experienced team but WAS a young injured team with over 20 different starting line-ups, a first year coach, second and third best players missing 67 games.

Durant had no effect that is comparable to Rose's effect. Kobe's play fell off tremendously that year because he was tired. With those two you are just being silly. Lebron and Wade were on the same team that had three superstars who were healthier along with veteran help and still didn't win as many games. Rose was significantly better than all of the other super stars in critical games, games against the elite and each other, and was more consistent throughout the year.

Lets see how the Bulls did in the playoffs from 2011 and onwards. In 2011 they were destroyed by the second seed Heat. We will skip 2012 because of initial shock and mental affect the Rose injury had on the team. In 2013 they snapped Miami's 27-game win streak and Bulls fans were hyping them up to match well against Miami but then lost to Miami in 5 games. in 2014 they lost to the lower seeded Wizards in 5 games. The year after that as the 3rd seed lost to the second seed Cavaliers who were without Kevin Love and also Kyrie was hobbled in most of the series. We can see that Bulls have had a better regular season compared to playoffs in the years in which Thibs was the coach because of how hard he makes them work in the regular season.

Wade, Durant and Bryant both scored more points on a higher field goal percentage. Rose was in the right situation with the right team, coach and system that made him into the MVP in the regular season. Yes Rose had a heck of a season and I do give Rose credit but people overstate it. People make it that he was the best player in the league when it is very debatable that he was not a top 5 player.

[SilkkTheShocker]

hes mad overrated. People hyped him up only for him to become lebrons punching bag in the playoffs.
This.

[tpols]

If a 22 year old Rose was going to surpass prime Lebron on super collude mode, Lebron would have to be all hype and no substance. No questions asked. Don't you have some pride in Bron. That wasn't a reality at that time and you know it. Rose wasn't healthy last year, nor was his team much.

ha .. the funny thing is, when Lebron was tasked with carrying an elite defensive team by himself and lost last year, all these guys cried about his lack of help in relation to offensive juggernaut that beat him. When the tables were turned, not a peep.

[SilkkTheShocker]

ha .. the funny thing is, when Lebron was tasked with carrying an elite defensive team by himself and lost last year, all these guys cried about his lack of help in relation to offensive juggernaut that beat him. When the tables were turned, not a peep.
So are too trying to say the Cavs minus Love/Irving were still more talented than those Bulls teams? :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[tpols]

So are too trying to say the Cavs minus Love/Irving were still more talented than those Bulls teams? :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

neither team had an offensive threat outside rose / bran.. and the cavs last year were the best defensive team of the playoffs.. right on par with Bulls of 2011, and they even played similarly.. slow, crash offensive glass and lockdown defense.. but they respectively ran into offensive juggernauts golden state and big 3 wade, bosh, bron heat..



imagine if Rose had Wade and Bosh and a top 5 defense and bran had boozer and noah and keith bogans .. you'd be crying to the heavens about brans lack of help. :lol

[Prime_Shaq]

MVP Rose sure was one exciting player

[DMAVS41]

neither team had an offensive threat outside rose / bran.. and the cavs last year were the best defensive team of the playoffs.. right on par with Bulls of 2011, and they even played similarly.. slow, crash offensive glass and lockdown defense.. but they respectively ran into offensive juggernauts golden state and big 3 wade, bosh, bron heat..



imagine if Rose had Wade and Bosh and a top 5 defense and bran had boozer and noah and keith bogans .. you'd be crying to the heavens about brans lack of help. :lol

Wade and Rose is a terrible pairing for starters. Also, the Heat's defense was top 5 in large part because of Lebron. That team was much worse defensively without Bron...and he was definitely an elite defender in a way Rose couldn't ever touch back then.

I'd bet big money on the Bulls beating the Heat in 11 if you switched Rose and Lebron. For starters, it's almost impossible for Lebron to play as poorly as Rose did...and there is no way Rose plays as well as Lebron did for the Heat on both ends.

Again, that series was very close...even with Rose playing about as bad as possible...and Lebron playing very well.

As for Rose vs Lillard...tough call, but ultimately I'll probably take the guy that can reliably shoot in this era. Just too much of a liability when the other team is hoping your pg shoots from distance.

[Angel Face]

No Bulls fan in their right mind would think Rose is better then Lillard. Rose is done but pre-injury MVP Rose > Lillard.

[LilEddyCurry]

ha .. the funny thing is, when Lebron was tasked with carrying an elite defensive team by himself and lost last year, all these guys cried about his lack of help in relation to offensive juggernaut that beat him. When the tables were turned, not a peep.
This year has been LeBron's lowest scoring year of his career (excluding his rookie year when he came straight from high school) 25.3 points. In Derrick Rose's MVP season he averaged 25.0 points on 44.5% shooting. Bear in mind, LeBron not even a scorer and 44.5% is lower than Kobe's career field goal percentage. Derrick Rose is not even in the same category as LeBron.

No, I am not a Derrick Rose hater. The bandwagon fans who hyped him up during this MVP year and who are now over nostalgic over his MVP year are annoying.

[eliteballer]

I feel like the main thing holding Rose back is himself.

He's still supremely athletic but I feel like mentally he's not there after the injuries.

He should be a 25/8 player.

[tpols]

Wade and Rose is a terrible pairing for starters. Also, the Heat's defense was top 5 in large part because of Lebron. That team was much worse defensively without Bron...and he was definitely an elite defender in a way Rose couldn't ever touch back then.


The Heat were the 6th ranked defense in the league before Lebron went there .. and before bosh was there as well. So they easily had that top 5 potential w/ or w/o rose or lebron. Spo is a defensive coach and Wade is more of a defensive leader than an offensive one (just look at all his teams w/o bran or shaq, always better defenses than offenses)



I'd bet big money on the Bulls beating the Heat in 11 if you switched Rose and Lebron. For starters, it's almost impossible for Lebron to play as poorly as Rose did...and there is no way Rose plays as well as Lebron did for the Heat on both ends.


And Id gladly take you up on that bet. Rose played "poor", shot poorly, because he had no one to alleviate pressure and had to make damn near every play happen on his own. When Lebron was in a similar position last year, he shot 47 TS whilst getting bounced. Efficiency can be wildly dependant on how good your team is.

Wade and Rose arent a great fit but neither was bron and wade .. the talent is still overwhelming though, and with all the evidence we have, with that Bulls team, there's a high chance Lebron either shoots like crap, or quits / goes low volume in response to facing a much more stacked team than what he himself had.

Its also funny because those Bulls teams had terrible shooting / spacing, they were always one of the poorer 3 pt shooting teams. Bron's lanes can be minimized pretty well in that case, and if hes forced into a lot of midrange shots, well we know the percentages he shoots when hes forced to go high volume on those.


I know bron is a better player than Rose, but he just had way more help that year.

[Steven Kerry]

Because he won MVP a long time ago and will "get back to form" someday.
:lol

[kurple]

Rose's MVP year: 25/4/8 on 45/33/86 shooting, 55% TS

Lillard this year: 25/4/7 on 42/38/89 shooting, 56% TS
MVP Rose > MVP Curry > No All Star Lillard

[SpaceJam]

OP literally talked to 1 Bulls fan

[Pointguard]

Wade, Durant and Bryant both scored more points on a higher field goal percentage. Rose was in the right situation with the right team, coach and system that made him into the MVP in the regular season. Yes Rose had a heck of a season and I do give Rose credit but people overstate it. People make it that he was the best player in the league when it is very debatable that he was not a top 5 player.
One, Rose has more hate threads than Durant, Westbrook, CP3, Dirk and Duncan put together easily, and guys like you are always popping up with this crazy nonsense. The right team, the right coach, the right system... you are totally wrong there and I'll come back to this but while we're there are you saying Curry wasn't MVP??? That he was overhyped??? Because Curry had all of those advantages and the ones listed below.

Rose did not have finishers, shooters, good spacing, another offensive superstar, athletes, a team built around him, a guy in the top ten of any category, players that made you pay for triple teaming him, alot of vet players, players who were used to playing with each other, no offensive system (Rose was the system) and no other creators along with the young team, often injured team. I don't know what you call a right team but thats far from it and any of the other "five other better players" have ever come close to success with just bad spacing much less the other ten things mentioned. Having the best record and domination of the elite in that situation is crazy. Only Lebron has done something even similar. Lebron's team was very similar defensively that year but had faster and more athletic players.

[Steven Kerry]

MVP Rose > MVP Curry > No All Star Lillard
No :no:

[Steven Kerry]

OP literally talked to 1 Bulls fan
:lol

[Pointguard]

And Id gladly take you up on that bet. Rose played "poor", shot poorly, because he had no one to alleviate pressure and had to make damn near every play happen on his own. When Lebron was in a similar position last year, he shot 47 TS whilst getting bounced. Efficiency can be wildly dependant on how good your team is.

Solid points throughout the thread.

In the previous finals Lebron had the most efficient high volume finals ever but wasn't effective. The next year, as you mention above, as situations dictate he becomes inefficient
but has the most effective first four games of the finals ever (one inch away from going up 3-1 on a superteam almost by himself!). And these stat guys miss the essence of the game looking for efficiency.

[Pointguard]

Rose did not have finishers, shooters, good spacing, another offensive superstar, athletes, a team built around him, a guy in the top ten of any category, players that made you pay for triple teaming him, alot of vet players, players who were used to playing with each other, no offensive system (Rose was the system) and no other creators along with the young team, often injured team. I don't know what you call a right team but thats far from it and any of the other "five other better players" have ever come close to success with just ...
Btw, all 16 items mentioned above affect efficiency.

[JohnMax]

bump

[ballinhun8]

OP literally talked to 1 Bulls fan



On Reddit......


Then posted here....


And now bumped his thread

[ReturnofJPR]

They both rep adidas. Lillard is hot so people will favor him. Notify me when Lillard wins the MVP. In the mean time, Go Blazers!

[Human Error]

Bulls fans are the most idiotic and biased bunches, I have had enough of them and I am done talking to them. Derrick Rose, the worst MVP in league history, was going to surpass Lebron before injury? In what? Getting eliminated early in the playoffs?

And 2016 Lillard >>> Rose in his MVP year.

[keep-itreal]

ISH completely forgot how good Derrick Rose was during his MVP season.

"b-b-but he got beat by Lebron"

He was going up against Lebron, Wade and Bosh in that series.

He had to do everything on offense because no other player on that Bulls team can do shit on that end

[Pointguard]

Bulls fans are the most idiotic and biased bunches, I have had enough of them and I am done talking to them. Derrick Rose, the worst MVP in league history, was going to surpass Lebron before injury? In what? Getting eliminated early in the playoffs?

And 2016 Lillard >>> Rose in his MVP year.
:lol
This is your mind on drugs.

Name me the other MVP that pulled this off:

Rose did not have finishers, shooters, good spacing, another offensive superstar, athletes, a team built around him, a guy in the top ten of any category, players that made you pay for triple teaming him, alot of vet players, players who were used to playing with each other, no offensive system (Rose was the system) and no other creators along with the young team, often injured team.

Sorry he did much more with the least. You just aren't bright enough to see it.

[NBAGOAT]

:lol
This is your mind on drugs.

Name me the other MVP that pulled this off:

Rose did not have finishers, shooters, good spacing, another offensive superstar, athletes, a team built around him, a guy in the top ten of any category, players that made you pay for triple teaming him, alot of vet players, players who were used to playing with each other, no offensive system (Rose was the system) and no other creators along with the young team, often injured team.

Sorry he did much more with the least. You just aren't bright enough to see it.

:biggums:

That team did have deng and boozer. Nothing to get really excited about but they were good offensive players. Deng definitely provided decent spacing at least.

[swagga]

:lol
This is your mind on drugs.

Name me the other MVP that pulled this off:

Rose did not have finishers, shooters, good spacing, another offensive superstar, athletes, a team built around him, a guy in the top ten of any category, players that made you pay for triple teaming him, alot of vet players, players who were used to playing with each other, no offensive system (Rose was the system) and no other creators along with the young team, often injured team.

Sorry he did much more with the least. You just aren't bright enough to see it.

1. in some old thread you said you were on the rose payroll, so .. yeah :facepalm
2. chicago's best asset was not rose but the defense (which rose had nothing to do with..). If anybody was the MVP that was thibs. This was proven by good performance without rose (of course not as great as rose was a very good player that took a huge chunk of the payroll).
3. chicago had a decent team with noah, boozer, deng, and a large number of useful players (hinrich, gibson, etc)
4. what you just described can be attributed to a large number of stars from the past. the difference is those stars did this thing for years, rose did it once.

rose is done son, he got lucky in 11 that they gave him the MVP over better choices such as howard, lebron, dwight or even durant. He was more of a flash in the pan then an established star and he will remain a cult hero for stans, but nothing more ... a far less talented, far less accomplished, far less durable and far less iconic iverson, iverson who isn't some top 20 player btw (no shame in this!).

[swagga]

ISH completely forgot how good Derrick Rose was during his MVP season.

"b-b-but he got beat by Lebron"

He was going up against Lebron, Wade and Bosh in that series.

He had to do everything on offense because no other player on that Bulls team can do shit on that end

trolling and keeping it real :roll:

[swagga]

Bulls fans are the most idiotic and biased bunches, I have had enough of them and I am done talking to them. Derrick Rose, the worst MVP in league history, was going to surpass Lebron before injury? In what? Getting eliminated early in the playoffs?

And 2016 Lillard >>> Rose in his MVP year.

production-wise about the same tbh, lillard is a better shooter, rose was a better rim attacker, both suck(ed) on defense big time. That being said lillard is a more cerebral offensive player so i'd give the nod to him especially in playoff games.

[Pointguard]

1. in some old thread you said you were on the rose payroll, so .. yeah :facepalm
2. chicago's best asset was not rose but the defense (which rose had nothing to do with..). If anybody was the MVP that was thibs. This was proven by good performance without rose (of course not as great as rose was a very good player that took a huge chunk of the payroll).
3. chicago had a decent team with noah, boozer, deng, and a large number of useful players (hinrich, gibson, etc)
4. what you just described can be attributed to a large number of stars from the past. the difference is those stars did this thing for years, rose did it once.

1)So what does that have to do with this thread.
2)Sorry Thibes did not go that far in any other season and had a a far better team. And Rose was the only player on that team to be tops in a defensive category (blocks) at his position and was the only player on his team that top three in rebounding at his position. He dominated the elite at his position as thoroughly good as any other player since then. To say he was bad defensively was crazy. I never seen any player ever hold a healthy Wade, a bigger position, like Rose did that year.

Also are you aware that GS was ranked higher in defense than offense last year? And this year year they are still a top three team without Curry. So this crap about Chicago won on defense alone is a weak and incredibly silly argument.

3)Once again Noah had a horrible year when he did play. In the ECF he was 6 ppg and not quite 10 rebs per game while being benched twice in the fourth quarter for bad play. Boozer was also benched twice in that series in the fourth quarter. Boozer was the only player that won A game that entire post season outside of Rose. Rose won 8 games on his back. Something you rarely see players do in any run. Which is something Thibes or their defense have NOT come close to getting. And that was superior team in 2015.

4)I said they never did it. Never as in ever. The number of years other players had to do it increases their chances to win without finishers, shooters and spacing. It doesn't decrease their chance like you are imagining in your deranged head?


rose is done son, he got lucky in 11 that they gave him the MVP over better choices such as howard, lebron, dwight or even durant.
:lol This is why I have to call you silly. I tell you that nobody wins an MVP without shooters, talent, veteran teammates, injuries, new coach, young team, bad spacing and you come up with guys who had many of these advanges and didn't come close to dominating the elite that year, much less the best record, and three guys you named just got killed in the mvp voting like by 105 to 4. You can add up all of their votes together and its not 10 first place votes to Rose's 105. Are you playing ignorant??? Cause there is no other way to take you.

[ISHGoat]

This guy melting down hard

[KiiiiNG]

It's a miracle Derrick's even on the court these days, after such a tumultuous few years filled with physical and mental injuries.

He's waaaaaay past the point of being talked about with the top PG's in the league.

He's a bottom tier PG right now, among the leagues worst at the position. But I'm happy he's able to go play even if he's just 20% of the player he used to be.

I feel for Bulls fans though, they're stuck with a charity case reject for however long Derrick sticks it out. :lol

[tontoz]

OP getting Bulls fans confused with Rose stans.