If Tim Duncan wins the championship

[AirBonner]

and finals mvp then retires how do you think kobe's 60pt effort stacks up? :lol

[ScalsFan21]

and finals mvp then retires how do you think kobe's 60pt effort stacks up? :lol

Considering Kawhi is a top 3 player in the association (and Duncan won't be tabbed with a high-profile defensive matchup in a series vs. Cleveland like Iggy was), it will never happen.

But yeah. Duncan was always better than Kobe as an individual player, and has more impressive accolades to boot. MVP edge. FMVP edge. Defensive impact edge. Game lent itself more to team play.

The list goes on. That's why TD is a no-doubt top 10 player all time while Kobe is left fighting for the high teens, in more ways than one.

[bobopenguin]

nothing. cos duncan doesnt have 81pts game, nor 50pts streak.

if duncan wins, i will be very happy, cos i can hand out all these Ls to bran stans. :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm sure we'll all be impressed with his 9 points and 7 rebounds

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Top 3 all time.

[Steven Kerry]

But yeah. Duncan was always better than Kobe as an individual player, and has more impressive accolades to boot. MVP edge. FMVP edge. Defensive impact edge. Game lent itself more to team play.
:applause:

[AirBonner]

Top 3 all time.
I agree with this. He is the best player of his generation

[RRR3]

It will definitely lead to a meltdown for Kobe stans. They are praying for Curry to win. They fear Duncan or LeBron winning so badly :lol

[Steven Kerry]

It will definitely lead to a meltdown for Kobe stans. They are praying for Curry to win. They fear Duncan or LeBron winning so badly :lol
This.

[bobopenguin]

It will definitely lead to a meltdown for Kobe stans. They are praying for Curry to win. They fear Duncan or LeBron winning so badly :lol

It also means 2/7 for lebron, fool.

[Steven Kerry]

It also means 2/7 for lebron, fool.
Probably, but there is a chance LeBron lays an egg in the ECF first.

[toprange]

and finals mvp then retires how do you think kobe's 60pt effort stacks up? :lol
espn will move lebron up to the 2nd spot of all time

[warriorfan]

OP, how are your Celtics doing?

[G0ATbe]

and finals mvp then retires how do you think kobe's 60pt effort stacks up? :lol
Kobe's 60 point final game is far and away more legendary and memoriable then any incoming rings Duncan gets riding the end of the bench:confusedshrug:

That game alone is more historic than Duncan himself

[ImKobe]

Duncan hasn't won a Finals MVP since 2005

his 5th ring came as a ROLE PLAYER
this season he averaged 8.6 ppg 7.3 rpg in 25 minutes a game, he is currently averaging 5.8 ppg and 6.3 rpg in 20 minutes a game in the Playoffs

He's not winning the Finals MVP, and even if the Spurs win it all it adds nothing to his overall legacy, he isn't a 1st, 2nd or 3rd option and barely plays in these games..6th in minutes and 8th in points, 8th in PER, 2nd in rebounds while also being 2nd in total turnovers

He's basically a Tiago Splitter at this point..

[Dr Hawk]

I admit Duncan is superior to Kobe. His bench-warming skills have improved with the past of the years.

Practice makes the master

[AirBonner]

I admit Duncan is superior to Kobe. His bench-warming skills have improved with the past of the years.

Practice makes the master


He's basically a Tiago Splitter at this point


Kobe's 60 point final game is far and away more legendary and memoriable then any incoming rings Duncan gets riding the end of the bench

That game alone is more historic than Duncan himself


I'm sure we'll all be impressed with his 9 points and 7 rebounds


nothing. cos duncan doesnt have 81pts game, nor 50pts streak.

if duncan wins, i will be very happy, cos i can hand out all these Ls to bran stans.

The meltdown has already begun

[Kblaze8855]

his 5th ring came as a ROLE PLAYER



He's not winning the Finals MVP, and even if the Spurs win it all it adds nothing to his overall legacy, he isn't a 1st, 2nd or 3rd option and barely plays in these games..6th in minutes and 8th in points, 8th in PER, 2nd in rebounds while also being 2nd in total turnovers

2014 playoffs he was the Spurs second leading scorer, played the most minutes, led them in rebounds, and PER(playoffs and regular season), had less turnoves than Parker, Manu, Leonard, and Diaw, and put up 16/9/3/1 on 52% shooting while Parker did 17/5/2 and Leonard 14/7/2/2. In the WCF he put up 18/10 while Parker did 13/5 and Leonard 12/5. You may recall them going to him 5 times down the stretch in OT to get to the finals as he drew two fouls in the post while scoring 7 straight to win the series. They took it back to 03 and just threw it into him and the whole arena smelled the BBQ chicken.

So he won that ring as a role player....even though the very numbers you use to show hes one now....show he was the most productive player on the team then?

[SpaceJam]

2014 playoffs he was the Spurs second leading scorer, played the most minutes, led them in rebounds, and PER(playoffs and regular season), had less turnoves than Parker, Manu, Leonard, and Diaw, and put up 16/9/3/1 on 52% shooting while Parker did 17/5/2 and Leonard 14/7/2/2. In the WCF he put up 18/10 while Parker did 13/5 and Leonard 12/5. You may recall them going to him 5 times down the stretch in OT to get to the finals as he drew two fouls in the post while scoring 7 straight to win the series.

So he won that ring as a role player....even though the very numbers you use to show hes one now....show he was the most productive player on the team then?

:no: :no: :no:

He didn't win FMVP, one muppet was telling me a couple of days ago rings count less if you weren't the man :facepalm

[Showtime2001]

:no: :no: :no:

He didn't win FMVP, one muppet was telling me a couple of days ago rings count less if you weren't the man :facepalm
This.

[toprange]

Duncan hasn't won a Finals MVP since 2005

his 5th ring came as a ROLE PLAYER
this season he averaged 8.6 ppg 7.3 rpg in 25 minutes a game, he is currently averaging 5.8 ppg and 6.3 rpg in 20 minutes a game in the Playoffs

He's not winning the Finals MVP, and even if the Spurs win it all it adds nothing to his overall legacy, he isn't a 1st, 2nd or 3rd option and barely plays in these games..6th in minutes and 8th in points, 8th in PER, 2nd in rebounds while also being 2nd in total turnovers

He's basically a Tiago Splitter at this point..

Proof on what I said. Duncan won't get the credit but lebron will.

[Steven Kerry]

:no: :no: :no:

He didn't win FMVP, one muppet was telling me a couple of days ago rings count less if you weren't the man :facepalm
By that definition, Duncan is clearly better than Kobe.

[AirBonner]

By that definition, Duncan is clearly better than Kobe.
which he is :cheers:

[ImKobe]

By that definition, Duncan is clearly better than Kobe.

Difference is that Kobe was putting up superstar numbers in 2000 (until injury), 2001 and 2002...

There's a big difference in winning the title and averaging 29/7/6 for the Playoffs or winning the title and averaging 16/9

Kobe put up first option numbers in 2 out of 3 rings with Shaq, averaged 21 ppg in 2000 if you include his injury in the Finals, 23 ppg through first 3 rounds with a game-winning shot, game-winning block and leading LA in points, rebounds, assists and blocks in the dramatic Game 7 of the WCF that many people consider the beginning of the Shaq-Kobe dynasty.

Kobe averaged 25/6/5/2 with a 29% usage rate in the Playoffs for his first 3 title runs. Anyone discounting those rings is straight up trolling.

[Magic 32]

In terms of Kobe/Duncan debates, the real damage has already been done...

http://s32.postimg.org/ni7smytat/AP_080523034058_XL.jpg

Who cares about rings as the 7th best player on your team.

Not I.

[Showtime2001]

Difference is that Kobe was putting up superstar numbers in 2000 (until injury), 2001 and 2002...

There's a big difference in winning the title and averaging 29/7/6 for the Playoffs or winning the title and averaging 16/9

Kobe put up first option numbers in 2 out of 3 rings with Shaq, averaged 21 ppg in 2000 if you include his injury in the Finals, 23 ppg through first 3 rounds with a game-winning shot, game-winning block and leading LA in points, rebounds, assists and blocks in the dramatic Game 7 of the WCF that many people consider the beginning of the Shaq-Kobe dynasty.

Kobe averaged 25/6/5/2 with a 29% usage rate in the Playoffs for his first 3 title runs. Anyone discounting those rings is straight up trolling.
They will just ignore all these facts and say Shaq won FMVP.

[wordsRweapons]

he averaged like 1pt against memphis :lol Kobe has more chances of winning FMVP than Duncan

[AirBonner]

They will just ignore all these facts and say Shaq won FMVP.
which he did.

[SpaceJam]

By that definition, Duncan is clearly better than Kobe.

I completely agree

[ImKobe]

In terms of Kobe/Duncan debates, the real damage has already been done...

http://s32.postimg.org/ni7smytat/AP_080523034058_XL.jpg

Who cares about rings as the 7th best player on your team.

Not I.

Kobe 4 - 2 Duncan

Absolutely destroyed the Spurs when he hit his prime, 2008 was straight up rape. Game 5 still one of my favorite Playoff moments ever, some of the most aesthetic buckets ever scored in the NBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXVxcLm2qQ

:bowdown:

[Showtime2001]

which he did.
Duncan hasn't won FMVP since 2005.

[AirBonner]

Duncan hasn't won FMVP since 2005.
He has a good chance at it this year. Much better chance than Kobe.

[Magic 32]

Duncan hasn't won FMVP since 2005.

And he played pretty bad for an FMVP.

Game 5 was a trainwreck for him.

Bill Simmons on Duncan in the 2005 finals...

Enduring Story Line: “Tim Duncan might be great, but he’s not transcendent.” And that wasn’t totally fair. A gimpy Duncan won his third Finals MVP by default (20.6 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 42% FG, 67% FT), missing 22 of 32 shots in Games 3 and 4, missing six of seven free throws down the stretch of Game 5 (as well as what should been an easy game-winning putback), then gutting out a 10-for-27 in Game 7 that was just good enough. The 2005 Finals could have cemented his “Best Player of His Generation” claim, but physically he couldn’t pull it off (leaving the door juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust open enough for Kobe). Even Duncan admitted afterward, “We can play a lot better, and that’s something horrible to say up here right now as we’re sitting up here NBA champs

[ImKobe]

He has a good chance at it this year. Much better chance than Kobe.

Gonna be the first player ever to win a FMVP averaging 6 pts 6 rebs in 20 minutes :roll:


And he played pretty bad for an FMVP.

Game 5 was a trainwreck for him.

Bill Simmons on Duncan in the 2005 finals...

Enduring Story Line: “Tim Duncan might be great, but he’s not transcendent.” And that wasn’t totally fair. A gimpy Duncan won his third Finals MVP by default (20.6 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 42% FG, 67% FT), missing 22 of 32 shots in Games 3 and 4, missing six of seven free throws down the stretch of Game 5 (as well as what should been an easy game-winning putback), then gutting out a 10-for-27 in Game 7 that was just good enough. The 2005 Finals could have cemented his “Best Player of His Generation” claim, but physically he couldn’t pull it off (leaving the door juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust open enough for Kobe). Even Duncan admitted afterward, “We can play a lot better, and that’s something horrible to say up here right now as we’re sitting up here NBA champs

worst TS% ever for a Finals MVP IIRC. There is a case to be made for Manu being the true FMVP

let's not forget that Duncan missed a FT to win the game in that series and Spurs potentially lose in 7 if Horry doesn't hit the game-winner in OT..

People give Kobe crap for one bad shooting night in the Boston series but I rarely hear about Duncan's 2005 series

[Showtime2001]

He has a good chance at it this year. Much better chance than Kobe.
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/13/136085/2479220-1578648373-gw-cl.gif

[AirBonner]

I think it is hilarious how insecure Kobe stans are. The facts are Duncan has more season and final mvps. Hes just the better player. Fact.

[Magic 32]

The facts are Duncan has more media awards. Hes just the better player when he did not have to face Kobe

fixed.

[Showtime2001]

Gonna be the first player ever to win a FMVP averaging 6 pts 6 rebs in 20 minutes :roll:



worst TS% ever for a Finals MVP IIRC. There is a case to be made for Manu being the true FMVP

let's not forget that Duncan missed a FT to win the game in that series and Spurs potentially lose in 7 if Horry doesn't hit the game-winner in OT..

People give Kobe crap for one bad shooting night in the Boston series but I rarely hear about Duncan's 2005 series
You never hear about it because its Duncan just like all his other failures get swept under the rug like it never happened.

[ImKobe]

I think it is hilarious how insecure Kobe stans are. The facts are Duncan has more season and final mvps. Hes just the better player. Fact.

It's all subjective... You're a C's fan, no one's going to take your opinion on Kobe that seriously.

[SwayDizzle]

Duncan at the moment is one spot behind Kobe on the all time list. If he wins another ring while contributing significantly, then he will move up and surpass Kobe. however, if this doesn't pan out, he then remains behind kobe.

[T_L_P]

This.

Still 3 > 2 though

[Showtime2001]

Still 3 > 2 though
And 4 > 2 though.

[AirBonner]

It's all subjective... You're a C's fan, no one's going to take your opinion on Kobe that seriously.
Facts are not subjective. You guys are the first one's to say "5/7.....2/7..." stfu.

[T_L_P]

And 4 > 2 though.

Where did I say series wins makes one player better than the other like you did FMVPs? :oldlol:

[Magic 32]

The real problem is that it's to close to call.

Both have things that the other don't have. Both have been great but also flawed in big moments.

And both (along with Shaq) towers over anyone else in this era.

You need WC credentials to get into the Kobe/Shaq/Duncan 21th century club.

[Showtime2001]

Where did I say series wins makes one player better than the other like you did FMVPs? :oldlol:
You didn't I agree with you on FMVP's but Kobe beats Duncan in head to head playoff match ups.

[dazzer87]

will be a meltdown by kome stans if Duncan could get # 6

[k0kakw0rld]

OP, how are your Celtics doing?
How your Rockets doing? Or your Curry? :confusedshrug:

[Mr Feeny]

It will definitely lead to a meltdown for Kobe stans. They are praying for Curry to win. They fear Duncan or LeBron winning so badly :loldoesn't help them much because that would catapult Curry above Kobe:roll:

[soots]

lol. 2005 he was marked by Ben mfkn wallace. one of the best 3-5 best defensive players of all time. He got the job done still, with expected less efficiency due to being marked by a great defensive big on a great defensive side.

He was also the best spurs player in 2007 and 2014 DESPITE Tony and Kawhi winning the fmvp.

Watch the whole season/playoffs and youll understand.

Kawhi won for playing amazingly in the finals, but the playoffs was Duncan. Same with 2007 when Tim wasnt needed.

[Bankaii]

The real problem is that it's to close to call.

Both have things that the other don't have. Both have been great but also flawed in big moments.

And both (along with Shaq) towers over anyone else in this era.

You need WC credentials to get into the Kobe/Shaq/Duncan 21th century club.
So much bullshit in one post:oldlol:
Kobe/Duncan are not close in terms of careers. Nearly everyone that's not a Kobe fan has Duncan in the 5-7 range and Kobe in the 8-10 range.
Shaq is in the 5-8 range as well.

And the last part of your post is just blind hatred. If by "this era" you mean 2000s and 2010s you're a moron. Lebron is clearly in that group and better than Kobe. And pretty soon Curry will be better than Kobe too.

Must suck being a Kobetard.

[AirBonner]

So much bullshit in one post:oldlol:
Kobe/Duncan are not close in terms of careers. Nearly everyone that's not a Kobe fan has Duncan in the 5-7 range and Kobe in the 8-10 range.
Shaq is in the 5-8 range as well.

And the last part of your post is just blind hatred. If by "this era" you mean 2000s and 2010s you're a moron. Lebron is clearly in that group and better than Kobe. And pretty soon Curry will be better than Kobe too.

Must suck being a Kobetard.
Well said :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Gonna be the first player ever to win a FMVP averaging 6 pts 6 rebs in 20 minutes :roll:



worst TS% ever for a Finals MVP IIRC. There is a case to be made for Manu being the true FMVP

let's not forget that Duncan missed a FT to win the game in that series and Spurs potentially lose in 7 if Horry doesn't hit the game-winner in OT..

People give Kobe crap for one bad shooting night in the Boston series but I rarely hear about Duncan's 2005 series

definitely..

2005 Duncan and 2010 Bryant are the only FMVP's ever to not lead the team in Win Shares (Ginobili, Gasol).

2005 Duncan has the worst TS% of any Finals MVP ever
2010 Bryant has the worst FG% of any Finals MVP ever

Both have one Finals MVP they clearly shouldn't have.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

2014 playoffs he was the Spurs second leading scorer, played the most minutes, led them in rebounds, and PER(playoffs and regular season), had less turnoves than Parker, Manu, Leonard, and Diaw, and put up 16/9/3/1 on 52% shooting while Parker did 17/5/2 and Leonard 14/7/2/2. In the WCF he put up 18/10 while Parker did 13/5 and Leonard 12/5. You may recall them going to him 5 times down the stretch in OT to get to the finals as he drew two fouls in the post while scoring 7 straight to win the series. They took it back to 03 and just threw it into him and the whole arena smelled the BBQ chicken.

So he won that ring as a role player....even though the very numbers you use to show hes one now....show he was the most productive player on the team then?


lol. 2005 he was marked by Ben mfkn wallace. one of the best 3-5 best defensive players of all time. He got the job done still, with expected less efficiency due to being marked by a great defensive big on a great defensive side.

He was also the best spurs player in 2007 and 2014 DESPITE Tony and Kawhi winning the fmvp.

Watch the whole season/playoffs and youll understand.

Kawhi won for playing amazingly in the finals, but the playoffs was Duncan. Same with 2007 when Tim wasnt needed.

:applause:

[T_L_P]

definitely..

2005 Duncan and 2010 Bryant are the only FMVP's ever to not lead the team in Win Shares (Ginobili, Gasol).

2005 Duncan has the worst TS% of any Finals MVP ever
2010 Bryant has the worst FG% of any Finals MVP ever

Both have one Finals MVP they clearly shouldn't have.

Are you talking Finals or Playoffs? If the former, do you have these numbers?

Because of the top of my head, Parker didn't lead the 07 Spurs in WSs (Duncan did), Pierce didn't in 08 (Garnett), and Kawhi didn't in 2014 (Duncan), Iggy in 2015 (Curry).

[Disaprine]

if timmy could do this then damn. :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

Are you talking Finals or Playoffs? If the former, do you have these numbers?

Because of the top of my head, Parker didn't lead the 07 Spurs in WSs (Duncan did), Pierce didn't in 08 (Garnett), and Kawhi didn't in 2014 (Duncan), Iggy in 2015 (Curry).

where do you have that from?

2015 might actually be right... probably the third.

[Tarik One]

Tim Duncan is not top 5 all-time, but he is definitely 1st team all-time NBA.

[T_L_P]

where do you have that from?

2015 might actually be right... probably the third.

I'm asking if you're referring to Finals WSs or Playoff WSs, because I've not seen these numbers.

The years/names I had were Playoff WS leaders who didn't win FMVP.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm asking if you're referring to Finals WSs or Playoff WSs, because I've not seen these numbers.

The years/names I had were Playoff WS leaders who didn't win FMVP.

Nah, I meant Finals WS.

I.... read it somewhere. Yeah, doesnt sound very conclusive and believable, but I did, around 2013-2014 maybe, so Igoudala/Curry could be the third on that list.

[kav23]

I would love it if Spurs got the ring this year so Tim and Manu could retire as champions, but I don't expect that to happen sadly. Even if Spurs beat Thunder, I don't think they can get past Warriors in WCF.

[tpols]

Are you talking Finals or Playoffs? If the former, do you have these numbers?

Because of the top of my head, Parker didn't lead the 07 Spurs in WSs (Duncan did), Pierce didn't in 08 (Garnett), and Kawhi didn't in 2014 (Duncan), Iggy in 2015 (Curry).

01 Kobe for playoffs.

[Magic 32]

So much bullshit in one post:oldlol:
Kobe/Duncan are not close in terms of careers. Nearly everyone that's not a Kobe fan has Duncan in the 5-7 range and Kobe in the 8-10 range.
Shaq is in the 5-8 range as well.

And the last part of your post is just blind hatred. If by "this era" you mean 2000s and 2010s you're a moron. Lebron is clearly in that group and better than Kobe. And pretty soon Curry will be better than Kobe too.

Must suck being a Kobetard.

Lebron is not top 10. Deal with it.

Nothing else in your post contradict with what I said. :oldlol: