Jordan's scoring + passing compared to Lebron's

[3ball]

.

Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:


JORDAN:. 43.3 pts + 7.4 ast = 50.7
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts + 8.6 ast = 45.1
___________________________________
+5.6 JORDAN ADVANTAGE




Now let's consider Jordan's lower turnovers and superior efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg)


JORDAN:.43.3 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:.36.5 pts.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg
KOBE:... 34.7 pts.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 44.8 fg.. 54.1 ts.. 110 ORtg
WADE:.. 32.2 pts.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 47.8 fg.. 55.4 ts.. 108 ORtg



Is there any doubt?... :confusedshrug:
.

[BlazerRed]

Jordan is the GOAT. Lebron is a fringe top 10. This has been established many times.

[3ball]

Jordan is the GOAT. Lebron is a fringe top 10. This has been established many times.


...NBA.COM'S STATS ON
"MIDRANGE" EFFICIENCY
..(all shots inside 3-pt line but outside paint)



.......................Midrange Efficiency .


Lebron.. 2008 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.4%.. 185/508
Lebron.. 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.8%.. 193/525
Lebron.. 2010 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.8%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2011 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 44.6%.. 217/487
Lebron.. 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 42.3%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 43.2%.. 174/403
Lebron.. 2014 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.5%.. 126/327
Lebron.. 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.0%.. 127/343
Lebron.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.1%.. 96/259

M Jordan. 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 48.9%.. 588/1202
M Jordan. 1998 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 43.2%.. 476/1101

Westbrook 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):. 36.9%.. 164/445
Westbrook 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/):. 42.4%.. 129/304

D Wade.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2548/stats/shooting/):... 36.4%.. 143/393

Derozan. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201942/stats/shooting/):... 37.5%.. 183/488

Butler. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202710/stats/shooting/):....... 35.9%.. 113/315



Jordan's 1997 season ranks #1 on this list by a full 5 percentage points, and his volume is 3 times more than anyone else's.. His 1998 ranks 3rd on the list, despite playing through a severe finger injury where he couldn't straighten his finger.

Otoh, Lebron's midrange efficiency is below 40% for 10 of his 13 seasons, while his 3-point percentage is below 35% for 8 of 13 seasons.. The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency for most of their careers, yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and gave him a similarly massive advantage over Lebron, Westbrook and company..

[BlazerRed]

...NBA.COM'S STATS ON
"MIDRANGE" EFFICIENCY
..(all shots inside 3-pt line but outside paint)



.......................Midrange Efficiency .


Lebron.. 2008 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.4%.. 185/508
Lebron.. 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.8%.. 193/525
Lebron.. 2010 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.8%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2011 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 44.6%.. 217/487
Lebron.. 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 42.3%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 43.2%.. 174/403
Lebron.. 2014 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.5%.. 126/327
Lebron.. 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.0%.. 127/343
Lebron.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.1%.. 96/259

M Jordan. 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 48.9%.. 588/1202
M Jordan. 1998 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 43.2%.. 476/1101

Westbrook 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):. 36.9%.. 164/445
Westbrook 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/):. 42.4%.. 129/304

D Wade.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2548/stats/shooting/):... 36.4%.. 143/393

Derozan. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201942/stats/shooting/):... 37.5%.. 183/488

Butler. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202710/stats/shooting/):....... 35.9%.. 113/315



Jordan's 1997 season ranks #1 on this list by a full 5 percentage points, and his volume is 3 times more than anyone else's.. His 1998 ranks 3rd on the list, despite playing through a severe finger injury where he couldn't straighten his finger.

Otoh, Lebron's midrange efficiency is below 40% for 10 of his 13 seasons, while his 3-point percentage is below 35% for 8 of 13 seasons.. The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency for most of their careers, yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and gave him a similarly massive advantage over Lebron, Westbrook and company..

huh im too highf or this shit

[Lebron23]

Op is so insecure.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Lebron.. 2008 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.4%.. 185/508
Lebron.. 2009 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 36.8%.. 193/525
Lebron.. 2010 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.8%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2011 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 44.6%.. 217/487
Lebron.. 2012 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 42.3%.. 188/444
Lebron.. 2013 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 43.2%.. 174/403
Lebron.. 2014 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 38.5%.. 126/327
Lebron.. 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.0%.. 127/343
Lebron.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.... 37.1%.. 96/259

M Jordan. 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 48.9%.. 588/1202
M Jordan. 1998 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 43.2%.. 476/1101

Westbrook 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):. 36.9%.. 164/445
Westbrook 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201566/stats/shooting/):. 42.4%.. 129/304

D Wade.. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2548/stats/shooting/):... 36.4%.. 143/393

Derozan. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201942/stats/shooting/):... 37.5%.. 183/488

Butler. 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202710/stats/shooting/):....... 35.9%.. 113/315



Jordan's 1997 season ranks #1 on this list by a full 5 percentage points, and his volume is 3 times more than anyone else's.. His 1998 ranks 3rd on the list, despite playing through a severe finger injury where he couldn't straighten his finger.

Otoh, Lebron's midrange efficiency is below 40% for 10 of his 13 seasons, while his 3-point percentage is below 35% for 8 of 13 seasons.. The reality is that Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler all have poor 3-point AND midrange efficiency for most of their careers, yet they're still the top wing scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim than ever before.

Today's spacing and hands-off defense would benefit MJ's athleticism the same way, except he had well-documented (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713011&postcount=43) goat midrange efficiency, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and gave him a similarly massive advantage over Lebron, Westbrook and company..

You already posted this several times. Still don't see Leonard in there.

:oldlol:

[masonanddixon]

No one except retarded pinoy boys think lequeer is even remotely in the same league as Jordan.

[Dray n Klay]

No one except retarded pinoy boys think lequeer is even remotely in the same league as Jordan.

Who's better, Jordan or Bird?

[masonanddixon]

Who's better, Jordan or Bird?
Jordan. And Bird is significantly better than lebron.

[ScalsFan21]

What is the logic behind valuing one assist as equal to one point?

[Bankaii]

Go take a basic math class dipshit.
An assist is worth 2 points and most of the time in Lebron's case, 3 points.
Hold this L fgt.

[3ball]

Go take a basic math class dipshit.
An assist is worth 2 points and most of the time in Lebron's case, 3 points.
Hold this L fgt.
3/4 of the shots taken by Lebron's teams are TWO-pointers.

So out of the 8.6 assists that Lebron gets per 100 possessions, most of them are for 2-pointers, not 3-pointers.

Hold this L... :coleman:
.

[Bankaii]

3/4 of the shots taken by Lebron's teams are TWO-pointers.

So out of the 8.6 assists that Lebron gets per 100 possessions, most of them are for 2-pointers, not 3-pointers.

Hold this L... :coleman:
.
Hoe 2 and 3 are both still more accurate 1.
I know you love Jordan but you're changing the value of assists now:no:

And where'd you get that stat from? Seems like you pulled it out your ass

[sportjames23]

.

Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:


JORDAN:. 43.3 pts + 7.4 ast = 50.7
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts + 8.6 ast = 45.1
___________________________________
+5.6 JORDAN ADVANTAGE




Now let's consider Jordan's lower turnovers and superior efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg)


JORDAN:.43.3 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg
LEBRON:.36.5 pts.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg
KOBE:... 34.7 pts.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 44.8 fg.. 54.1 ts.. 110 ORtg
WADE:.. 32.2 pts.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 47.8 fg.. 55.4 ts.. 108 ORtg



Is there any doubt?... :confusedshrug:
.

https://45.media.tumblr.com/9ce872a97b7e2602ddffeede66f4a966/tumblr_n3vhduQUla1s3gys4o1_400.gif

[kamil]

Op is so insecure.

Why do you always defend LeShortcut whenever he gets exposed?

[sdot_thadon]

Hoe 2 and 3 are both still more accurate 1.
I know you love Jordan but you're changing the value of assists now:no:

And where'd you get that stat from? Seems like you pulled it out your ass
Because doing that would require intellectually honest research and the results wouldn't fit his warped purpose. That's why. Oh and ignoring is the best medicine sometimes.

[3ball]

An assist is worth 2 points and most of the time in Lebron's case, 3 points.


^^^^ That is false - Lebron's assists were mostly for TWO-pointers.

65% of the Cavs' shots this season were 2-pointers (4461 of 6888 total shot attempts), and 35% were 3-pointers.

When we apply this 35% to Lebron's 8.6 assists, we see that only 3.0 of his assists are for 3-pointers - these 3 points aren't enough to offset his 7-point scoring deficit to Jordan.. And of course, the 3-points we gave Lebron assumes Jordan assisted on ZERO 3-pointers, which isn't the case.

[FKAri]

What is the logic behind valuing one assist as equal to one point?
OP's an idiot. That's the logic.

For some highly concentrated idiocy see this:

^^^^ That is false - Lebron's assists were mostly for TWO-pointers.

65% of the Cavs' shots this season were 2-pointers (4461 of 6888 total shot attempts), and 35% were 3-pointers.

When we apply this 35% to Lebron's 8.6 assists, we see that only 3.0 of his assists are for 3-pointers - these 3 points aren't enough to offset his 7-point scoring deficit to Jordan.. And of course, the 3-points we gave Lebron assumes Jordan assisted on ZERO 3-pointers, which isn't the case.
and yet still he applies 1 point to assists :lol

[3ball]

and yet still he applies 1 point to assists


Jordan's 7 point scoring advantage isn't offset by Lebron's 1 assist advantage, no matter how you slice it.

Jordan accounted for more points than Lebron, FAR more.. This is statistical fact.

[Bankaii]

^^^^ That is false - Lebron's assists were mostly for TWO-pointers.

65% of the Cavs' shots this season were 2-pointers (4461 of 6888 total shot attempts), and 35% were 3-pointers.

When we apply this 35% to Lebron's 8.6 assists, we see that only 3.0 of his assists are for 3-pointers - these 3 points aren't enough to offset his 7-point scoring deficit to Jordan.. And of course, the 3-points we gave Lebron assumes Jordan assisted on ZERO 3-pointers, which isn't the case.
Why are you quoting my post when you already responded to it before?

But now I'm going to call you out, you're bullshitting these stats.
The first response you said 3/4 of Lebron's assist resulted in a 2. That means 2.15 of his assists would result in a 3.
Now you're saying 3 of his assists resulted in a 3. Which one is it? Post a credible source for where your getting these random numbers from.

And even if you're numbers are right you're applying a stat from one year to support your claim for and entire career of playoffs. That's insanely ignorant.

The fact is that Lebron's assists result in a 3 at a much much higher percentage than Jordan's did. Unless you have a stat to accurately depict what percentage of assists resulted in a 2 or 3 your info is false.

You also aren't taking into account FGA. If you look at the points per shot Lebron was much more efficient with his FGA. Jordan took more shots which is why he has more points.

You're entire formula is bullshit.

[3ball]

If you look at the points per shot Lebron was much more efficient with his FGA.


Lebron's points-per-shot was 1.35 compared to Jordan's 1.33, which is essentially equal, except Jordan scored 20% more (43.3 to 36.3).

More importantly, Jordan's points-per-POSSESSION (ORtg) was much higher and he had better shooting efficiency as well (true shooting and FG%).

So I'll take Jordan's 20% more scoring on equal points-per-shot, with superior points-per-possession and shooting efficiency.





you're applying a stat from one year to support your claim for and entire career of playoffs.


The OP stats are their CAREER STATS in the playoffs, per 100 possessions.

Lebron's 1 assist advantage doesn't make up for his 7 point deficit, no matter how you slice it.

Jordan scored 7 more points on better efficiency across the board (TS, FG, ORtg), with only 1 less assist.





Unless you have a stat to accurately depict what percentage of assists resulted in a 2 or 3 your info is false.


Jordan's 7 point scoring advantage cannot be offset by Lebron's 1 assist advantage, no matter how you slice it.

Jordan accounted for more points than Lebron.. This is statistical fact.
.