Anyone have Hakeem over Wilt/Russell?

[sammichoffate]

Looking at his accolades, dude was just the ultimate center on both ends. Only player EVER to get FMVP, MVP, and DPOY in the same year.

[Dr Hawk]

I do

Best two way player of all-time, amazing playoff performer

[stalkerforlife]

I have no choice but to have Hakeem over them.

I've never seen the other two play.

[Uncle Drew]

Only player EVER to get FMVP, MVP, and DPOY in the same year.
Like Russell wouldn't have if the awards existed back then.

[SouBeachTalents]

Looking at his accolades, dude was just the ultimate center on both ends. Only player EVER to get FMVP, MVP, and DPOY in the same year.

To be fair though had FMVP/DPOY existed in the '60's, both Russell and Wilt would have accomplished that feat too. Russell would have probably done it multiple times

[sammichoffate]

I do

Best two way player of all-time, amazing playoff performerI would put him along with MJ, they were just dominant on both ends.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Yes i do
Hakeem was superior to both in the playoffs. Russell was a great playoff performer but in a different era i dont know how his offense would translate. Hed be like Bogut in Deandres body/athleticism.

With Hakeem u have one of the most skilled offensive bigs plus a defensive anchor

[Dr Hawk]

I would put him along with MJ, they were just dominant on both ends.

Agreed

[feyki]

Beside of 67 Wilt , Hakeem peaked higher than the both .

But Both have goat case career . Hakeem was never mentioned as one of the greatest center until his 29-30 .

[LAZERUSS]

I do

Best two way player of all-time, amazing playoff performer

Wilt was better at both ends, as well as a far greater rebounder and passer.

Hakeem was getting lit up by a 38-39 year old Kareem. A peak Kareem shot .464 against a past-his-prime Wilt in 28 H2H's.

Wilt was a MUCH greater scorer, MUCH greater rebounder, MUCH greater shot-blocker, MUCH greater one-on-one defender, and a MUCH greater passer.

[Uncle Drew]

Wilt would stop playing defense if he got into foul trouble in order to protect a weird gimmick of his. Wilt would also pass up layups and dunks to pad his assist total.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt would stop playing defense if he got into foul trouble in order to protect a weird gimmick of his. Wilt would also pass up layups and dunks to pad his assist total.

Wilt averaged 2 PF's in his career...in which he also averaged 46 mpg.

And the year in which Chamberlain led the league in assists, his team went 62-20 and ran away with the best record in the league. And just the year prior to that, he finished third in apg, and led his team to a 68-13 record, and a dominating world title.

[Uncle Drew]

Wilt averaged 2 PF's in his career...in which he also averaged 46 mpg.
Thanks for adding to my point. :cheers:

[LAZERUSS]

Thanks for adding to my point. :cheers:

Exactly. Wilt was RARELY even CLOSE to foul trouble. And of course, he was limiting his HOF opposing centers to around a full ten percentage point drop in their FG% efficiencies, as well as blocking 7+ shots per game.

[AirBonner]

I think he's ahead of kobe

[feyki]

Exactly. Wilt was RARELY even CLOSE to foul trouble. And of course, he was limiting his HOF opposing centers to around a full ten percentage point drop in their FG% efficiencies, as well as blocking 7+ shots per game.

Wilt was great defender but you should agree with that , he hold back himself from contacts generally . And that's a negative thing .

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt was great defender but you should agree with that , he hold back himself from contacts generally . And that's a negative thing .

Prove it.

BTW...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

[QUOTE]In the post-season, the Lakers swept the Chicago Bulls,[91] then went on to face the Milwaukee Bucks of young superstar center and regular-season MVP Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly Lew Alcindor). The matchup between Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabbar was hailed by LIFE magazine as the greatest matchup in all of sports. Chamberlain would help lead the Lakers past Jabbar and the Bucks in six games.[91] Particularly, Chamberlain was lauded for his performance in Game 6, which the Lakers won 104

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt was great defender but you should agree with that , he hold back himself from contacts generally . And that's a negative thing .

And Wilt had a FAR greater IMPACT at the defensive end than Hakeem did.
FAR greater.

[Uncle Drew]

Exactly. Wilt was RARELY even CLOSE to foul trouble.
Exactly, he was never in foul trouble because he stopped playing defense. It's like I'm talking to a wall.

[LAZERUSS]

Exactly, he was never in foul trouble because he stopped playing defense. It's like I'm talking to a wall.


Of course, Wilt has the highest non-Russell Defensive Win-Share marks in NBA history, and was voted first-team all-defense in his last two seasons. And would most certainly have been DPOY in '72, and likely in '73, as well (he was even better in '73.) Of course, they didn't start All-Defensive teams until '69, and he was injured in '70 and missed nearly the entire season. In any case, he would likely have been first team all-defense in '67 and '68 (and again DPOY both years) had the award existed.

And he is, without question, the greatest shot-blocker in NBA history.

But yes, he stopped playing defense when he received his second foul (which based on what we know...didn't occur until late in the his usual games.)

:facepalm

[Uncle Drew]

Of course, Wilt has the highest non-Russell Defensive Win-Share marks in NBA history, and was voted first-team all-defense in his last two seasons. And would most certainly have been DPOY in '72, and likely in '73, as well (he was even better in '73.) Of course, they didn't start All-Defensive teams until '69, and he was injured in '70 and missed nearly the entire season. In any case, he would likely have been first team all-defense in '67 and '68 (and again DPOY both years) had the award existed.

And he is, without question, the greatest shot-blocker in NBA history.

But yes, he stopped playing defense when he received his second foul (which based on what we know...didn't occur until late in the his usual games.)

:facepalmI trust someone that actually lived and played in that era, AGAINST WILT, more than you. Because you seem to lose sight of reality every time Wilt gets brought up.

[KelticForce1349]

I think Hakeem is the greatest Center ever so yes, I do rank him higher than both of them. I have tremendous respect for Bill Russell though. Wilt? :rolleyes:

[Dr Hawk]

I think Hakeem is the greatest Center ever so yes, I do rank him higher than both of them. I have tremendous respect for Bill Russell though. Wilt? :rolleyes:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Psileas]

Wilt was great defender but you should agree with that , he hold back himself from contacts generally . And that's a negative thing .

If this were true, it would make the facts that Wilt was a tremendous shot blocker and that he could routinely hold an elite scorer like young, athletic Kareem to 40-45% FG games all the more impressive.

[LAZERUSS]

If this were true, it would make the facts that Wilt was a tremendous shot blocker and that he could routinely hold an elite scorer like young, athletic Kareem to 40-45% FG games all the more impressive.

And keep in mind that less than 2% of Wilt's career is on tape...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=splnUR-52jM

Or the entended version...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJGCySdvlPo

[feyki]

If this were true, it would make the facts that Wilt was a tremendous shot blocker and that he could routinely hold an elite scorer like young, athletic Kareem to 40-45% FG games all the more impressive.

It is .


And Wilt had a FAR greater IMPACT at the defensive end than Hakeem did.
FAR greater.


I don't think so . But both top 5 defensive player of history .

[Chadwin]

peak for peak Hakeem is the GOAT center

the GOAT himself picked Hakeem for his center

[mr4speed]

And keep in mind that less than 2% of Wilt's career is on tape...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=splnUR-52jM

Or the entended version...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJGCySdvlPo

That is some tremendous footage - thank you for sharing! Really liked the multiple shot blocks where Wilt blocked 1 players shot and then the very next shot by another player was also blocked! Too bad as time goes by people either forget or don't realize how great some of the older players were - if Wilt played in today's world his attention and exposure would top every player that has ever played IMO.

[zizozain]

I do

Hakeem over Wilt/Russell/Shaq

second best to Kareem

read this http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250889

[zizozain]

peak for peak Hakeem is the GOAT center

the GOAT himself picked Hakeem for his center
Quote:
If I had to pick a center, I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him.
-Michael Jordan

[bdreason]

Hakeem is one of my favorite players of all-time... but I don't have him ranked over Wilt or Russell. I have Russell at #3, Wilt at #4, and Hakeem at #9. My rankings aren't necessarily an evaluation of skill though. If Hakeem had played in the 60's, I have no doubt he would have been in the argument for GOAT. However, players can only be judged against their peers... and Wilt and Russell thoroughly dominated their peers.

[zizozain]

Hakeem is one of my favorite players of all-time... but I don't have him ranked over Wilt or Russell. I have Russell at #3, Wilt at #4, and Hakeem at #9. My rankings aren't necessarily an evaluation of skill though. If Hakeem had played in the 60's, I have no doubt he would have been in the argument for GOAT. However, players can only be judged against their peers... and Wilt and Russell thoroughly dominated their peers.
your Shaq rank?

[sportjames23]

On my All Time roster, it's a toss up between Dream and Shaq for starting center, Dream's complete game vs Shaq's dominance being the reason why.

[Stringer Bell]

Hakeem doesn't hold countless statistical records like Wilt or 5 MVPs and 11 rings like Russell....I guess it just depends on how much you think the NBA evolved over their eras.

[Dr Hawk]

On my All Time roster, it's a toss up between Dream and Shaq for starting center, Dream's complete game vs Shaq's dominance being the reason why.

Agreed. Currently, I have Shaq one spot higher than Hakeem. Hakeem is more complete but Shaq's dominance is mindblowing

[sammichoffate]

Agreed. Currently, I have Shaq one spot higher than Hakeem. Hakeem is more complete but Shaq's dominance is mindblowingNot to take anything away from Shaq, but Hakeem is lightyears ahead of any other center on defense. Dude is top 10 in steals all time ffs

[Nilocon165]

I don't know. I don't like basketball.

[Stringer Bell]

Not to take anything away from Shaq, but Hakeem is lightyears ahead of any other center on defense. Dude is top 10 in steals all time ffs

I'm not too sure about whom I'd pick between Hakeem and Shaq. Shaq was very dominant and efficient from the field, and opposing big men would constantly get in foul trouble. I'm sure he wore opponents down physically too.

In Hakeem's favor though, as you said, he was the better defender. Shaq was not good at guarding the pick-and-roll. Hakeem was an awesome defender, and also not a liability at the FT line like Shaq.

[Genaro]

I have him over Russell but under Wilt, KAJ and Shaq (against Shaq is almost a tie.)

[Marchesk]

I have Moses Malone over Hakeem. He won 3 MVPs during Kareem and Dr J's prime.

Hakeem was great and all, but he won his titles when:

1. Michael Jordan was retired

2. The Sonics were choking in the first round

He also lost in the first round like 8 times.

[NBAGOAT]

I have Moses Malone over Hakeem. He won 3 MVPs during Kareem and Dr J's prime.

Hakeem was great and all, but he won his titles when:

1. Michael Jordan was retired

2. The Sonics were choking in the first round

He also lost in the first round like 8 times.

moses' defense is just too mediocre for me to put him over Hakeem. I have Hakeem under Russell and Shaq however. No one has had the defensive impact Russell had and Shaq has a better peak/prime and comparable longevity. Shaq's defense was also great in his peak year 00.

[G-train]

Olajuwon from 93-96, which was a result of an evolution born of success and failure, was as good as any player ever, let alone centers.

However I wouldn't say his overall career was as good as Wilt and Russell.

[Asukal]

Hakeem over ILt yes but not over Russell, you just can't deny 11 rings despite playing in the bush league era. ILt was a joke...... :oldlol: :lol :roll:

[Round Mound]

Have him over Russell not Wilt

[feyki]

I have Moses Malone over Hakeem. He won 3 MVPs during Kareem and Dr J's prime.

Hakeem was great and all, but he won his titles when:

1. Michael Jordan was retired

2. The Sonics were choking in the first round

He also lost in the first round like 8 times.

Poor arguements .