Kawhi Leonard > Michael Jordan

[hiphopfan777]

Who agrees

[KlayThompson21]

**** you. Kawhi Leonard is one of the best in the league. Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time.

[3ball]

Who agrees


Not Popovich:


[INDENT]"[I](Kawhi) has the ability to do what a Michael Jordan did at both ends, [COLOR="Red"]and I don

[Atlantis]

Everything Jordan did looked beautiful. Everything Kawhi does looks ugly. To me, that's the biggest difference.

[Foster5k]

There use to be a guy that played this game called basketball. When he stepped on the court, he knew nothing could stop him. He knew that, once the game started, something miraculous would take place. It was almost like magic. However, he didn't believe in magic. He believed in his ability to overcome any obstacle and achieve what no one before him had ever done. People watched him and were amazed. They soon realized this guy was unique. He was something that words couldn't even describe. They even wanted to be just like him. They, too, wanted to feel what it was like to be extraordinary. When he retired, they called him the greatest of all time. His name still rings on till this day. All around the world people still remember the name. Michael Jordan.

[impulze]

What the fvck is up with people comparing players that played 20 years apart? The playstyle is not even the same anymore.

[impulze]

There use to be a guy that played this game called basketball. When he stepped on the court, he knew nothing could stop him. He knew that, once the game started, something miraculous would take place. It was almost like magic. However, he didn't believe in magic. He believed in his ability to overcome any obstacle and achieve what no one before him had ever done. People watched him and were amazed. They soon realized this guy was unique. He was something that words couldn't even describe. They even wanted to be just like him. They, too, wanted to feel what it was like to be extraordinary. When he retired, they called him the greatest of all time. His name still rings on till this day. All around the world people still remember the name. Michael Jordan.
Beautiful. :D Please tell me you created that yourself.:bowdown:

[stephanieg]

Leonard can shoot threes and it didn't take a hippie coach giving him magic mushrooms to teach him the team concept, nor has he punched a teammate in the face yet.

[BasketballLove]

The league is completely different now then it was before.
:coleman:
how are you measuring this lol?

[ninephive]

Obviously career wise and peak Jordan is better, but we may not be at Kawhi's peak yet. Timeline-wise, he's arguably accomplished more than Jordan in terms of hardware, already has a title, FMVP, and 2 DPOYs. He shoots better from the field, from 3, and is a better defender. At this time though, Jordan was a better volume scorer (a lot of which has to do with the system) and a better passer.

[CuterThanRubio]

He's better than Larry Bird, that's for sure.

[BasketballLove]

He's better than Larry Bird, that's for sure.


:o larry bird was a legend

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Obviously career wise and peak Jordan is better, but we may not be at Kawhi's peak yet. Timeline-wise, he's arguably accomplished more than Jordan in terms of hardware, already has a title, FMVP, and 2 DPOYs. He shoots better from the field, from 3, and is a better defender. At this time though, Jordan was a better volume scorer (a lot of which has to do with the system) and a better passer.

This sums it up nicely. Jordan better volume scorer/play-maker (due to offensive system), Leonard better everywhere else, honestly. Leonard hasn't reached his peak yet. Who knows? In a few years, he could be at Jordan's level (he'll be better than Curry, that's for sure).


He's better than Larry Bird, that's for sure.

Leonard this season is very comparable to Bird's '86 MVP season. I give the slight edge to Bird, but it's pretty close for anyone who was wondering.

[Wade's Rings]

This sums it up nicely. Jordan better volume scorer/play-maker (due to offensive system), Leonard better everywhere else, honestly. Leonard hasn't reached his peak yet. Who knows? In a few years, he could be at Jordan's level (he'll be better than Curry, that's for sure).



Leonard this season is very comparable to Bird's '86 MVP season. I give the slight edge to Bird, but it's pretty close for anyone who was wondering.

:oldlol:

[Dr Hawk]

This sums it up nicely. Jordan better volume scorer/play-maker (due to offensive system), Leonard better everywhere else, honestly. Leonard hasn't reached his peak yet. Who knows? In a few years, he could be at Jordan's level (he'll be better than Curry, that's for sure).



Leonard this season is very comparable to Bird's '86 MVP season. I give the slight edge to Bird, but it's pretty close for anyone who was wondering.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/fpXxIjftmkk9y/200.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/yZ2FSn86bf2co/200.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/asKgALccPDUFW/200.gif

[ninephive]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/fpXxIjftmkk9y/200.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/yZ2FSn86bf2co/200.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/asKgALccPDUFW/200.gif
Nice gifs, any facts to go with them?

[Wade's Rings]

Nice gifs, any facts to go with them?

What facts did you provide to prove Jordan's offense being better was due to the system? I'm not even going to get into Kawhi shooting better from the field and 3 as if that's not because of the system he's in. :oldlol:

[sportjames23]

There use to be a guy that played this game called basketball. When he stepped on the court, he knew nothing could stop him. He knew that, once the game started, something miraculous would take place. It was almost like magic. However, he didn't believe in magic. He believed in his ability to overcome any obstacle and achieve what no one before him had ever done. People watched him and were amazed. They soon realized this guy was unique. He was something that words couldn't even describe. They even wanted to be just like him. They, too, wanted to feel what it was like to be extraordinary. When he retired, they called him the greatest of all time. His name still rings on till this day. All around the world people still remember the name. Michael Jordan.

****in beautiful. :applause:

[deja vu]

People should be banned for posting something like this. It's not even an opinion, it's just straight trolling.

[AirBonner]

People should be banned for posting something like this. It's not even an opinion, it's just straight trolling.
He is better then mj was at 24. not far fetched chief.

[G0ATbe]

I say he's already the better player, but in terms of overall legacy not yet. If he wins another this year he surpasses him. Maybe not in the eyes of Jordan stans but to objective basketball fans.

[CuterThanRubio]

People should be banned for posting something like this. It's not even an opinion, it's just straight trolling.

You should be banned for labeling fact based analysis as "trolling"

Look the numbers and examine the impact before dismissing claims that aren't as farfetched as you want them to be.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

What facts did you provide to prove Jordan's offense being better was due to the system? I'm not even going to get into Kawhi shooting better from the field and 3 as if that's not because of the system he's in.

So Jordan is a worse 3-point shooter than Leonard because of the system he is in? Is that really the argument you are trying to make here? Leonard is the #1 option of his team much like Jordan was of his and shoots more of them at a higher percentage. There's no argument at all.

Now if you want to say he shoots more FG's, I have no problem giving him the nod for 2P's or FT's (Leonard does have better %'s in those, too, but on less volume).

I think what you're also trying to say is that Leonard isn't guarded as much or something? Why not? Leonard is a #1 option as well and it's not like the Spurs are stacked with consistent offensive threats from everywhere this season.

Is Green, Duncan, etc really putting up big numbers this season? Only Aldridge and Parker are scoring in the double digits, so why would you leave Leonard open?

Dude is consistently making contested shots, posting up, shooting fade-aways, crossing guys over, finishing in traffic, etc to get his buckets. It's no where near all wide open looks like you would have people believe.

Finishing in traffic:

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/kawhi.gif
https://d13csqd2kn0ewr.cloudfront.net/uploads/image/file/49678/cropped_kawhi.gif
http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/Kawhi_Leonard.gif

Contested shots:

https://i2.wp.com/cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-26-2015/HQNZZF.gif
http://giant.gfycat.com/ShockingHeavenlyDeer.gif
http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4244779/Kawhi_ISO.gif

[Wade's Rings]

So Jordan is a worse 3-point shooter than Leonard because of the system he is in? Is that really the argument you are trying to make here? Leonard is the #1 option of his team much like Jordan was of his and shoots more of them at a higher percentage. There's no argument at all.

Now if you want to say he shoots more FG's, I have no problem giving him the nod for 2P's or FT's (Leonard does have better %'s in those, too, but on less volume).

I think what you're also trying to say is that Leonard isn't guarded as much or something? Why not? Leonard is a #1 option as well and it's not like the Spurs are stacked with consistent offensive threats from everywhere this season.

Is Green, Duncan, etc really putting up big numbers this season? Only Aldridge and Parker are scoring in the double digits, so why would you leave Leonard open?

Dude is consistently making contested shots, posting up, shooting fade-aways, crossing guys over, finishing in traffic, etc to get his buckets. It's no where near all wide open looks like you would have people believe.

Finishing in traffic:

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/kawhi.gif
https://d13csqd2kn0ewr.cloudfront.net/uploads/image/file/49678/cropped_kawhi.gif
http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/Kawhi_Leonard.gif

Contested shots:

https://i2.wp.com/cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-26-2015/HQNZZF.gif
http://giant.gfycat.com/ShockingHeavenlyDeer.gif
http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4244779/Kawhi_ISO.gif


Leonard is a better shooter but you're going to act like the system doesn't help him out? Getting him clean looks and way more open shots than Mike. On top of that Mike is simply the way better Offensive player, creating shots, making plays, passing, footwork, post game, etc. Is Leonard the better defender because he has x2 DPOY to Mike's 1? They're both great man defenders but Mike is the better help defender to me.

I could go through some Kawhi highlights and makes gifs of the open shots he gets but I don't want to waste my time.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why the system made Mike the better volume scorer and playmaker.

[deja vu]

He is better then mj was at 24. not far fetched chief.
Jordan at age 24:

35 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 5.9 APG, 3.2 spg

But yeah Kawhi is better.

[Nilocon165]

I say he's already the better player, but in terms of overall legacy not yet. If he wins another this year he surpasses him. Maybe not in the eyes of Jordan stans but to objective basketball fans.
I don't think I've ever seen such a display of stupidity in one post. Holy ****

[keep-itreal]

Kawhi Leonard > Michael Jordan

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZucpMoYuuqn9C/giphy.gif

[sportjames23]

I'm just gonna leave these here for the ignorant masses:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWvxijHNWB4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm6BEk3ktAQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDQClx7bT3c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10hVnrvmDYY

Put some respek on his name, nigguhs.

[Number22]

I am a spurs and kawhi fan.. but if you replace kawhi with jordan on this spurs team.. we are going to sweep the warriors

[riseagainst]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/fpXxIjftmkk9y/200.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/yZ2FSn86bf2co/200.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/asKgALccPDUFW/200.gif


:oldlol:

[LilEddyCurry]

:biggums: :wtf: :facepalm

[Spurs m8]

This is the type of shit a GS 'fan' would post, and posts daily.

Spurs aren't this stupid tbh

[Paul George 24]

Who agrees
NO WAY

[Paul George 24]

Everything Jordan did looked beautiful. Everything Kawhi does looks ugly. To me, that's the biggest difference.
NO ONE CAN BE UGLIER THAN LEBRON

[r0drig0lac]

Jesus :facepalm

[hold this L]

I'm pretty sure hiphop fan did it to troll 2ball and the 90s stans, but the delusional Spurs fans went full retard :lol

http://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9tb6svKmO1r4alnuo1_250.gif

[Zeppelin]

Leonard this season is very comparable to Bird's '86 MVP season. I give the slight edge to Bird, but it's pretty close for anyone who was wondering.

25.8/9.8/6.8/2.0/0.6 is very comparable to 21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 ? And don't give me that offensive system crap. The 86 Celtics were a better team than the 2016 Spurs, with many more dangerous scorers and play makers.

Kawhi is a wonderful young player and I completely agree that he could really be something that would stack up to the greatest of the greats in a couple of seasons. But premature comparisons like this only foster resentment at one of the most likable guys in the league.

Is it time to discuss Kawhi among the greatest perimeter defenders ever and Curry among the greatest offensive peaks? Certainly. But calling Leonard better than Jordan/Bird and Curry the GOAT is nothing but extreme recency bias and/or fanboyism. A lot of the prevalent Lebron hate one sees everywhere among the basketball fandom is a reaction to this attitude among his diehard fans in his earlier career.

[ShawkFactory]

I had no idea that Kawhi stans were THIS batshit crazy..

[PowPau]

This thread :facepalm

[AirFederer]

So the retards ate pretending to be Kawhi fans this week.. :facepalm

What's next? Green>Shaq?

[ImKobe]

Everything Jordan did looked beautiful. Everything Kawhi does looks ugly. To me, that's the biggest difference.

That's a stupid argument though...basketball is not a beauty contest, it's about winning the game. Kawhi's team is currently 5 - 0 in the POs and he has a 37.7 PER...dude is playing team basketball to the best of his ability on both ends and doesn't try to take any credit it for it. Jordan was a high-usage high-volume scorer that could play on a GOAT level on both ends, of course he's a better player because we haven't seen Kawhi carry a team on his own...he's always been apart of the system.

Also, missed a FT in the final 28 seconds of Game 6 of the 2013 Finals that could have secured his team the championship...Jordan was perfect in the Finals and always dominated.

[Edgar Friendly]

Diff is Kawhi is the best defensive player on his team and draws the toughest wing/guard assignment every night.

[AirBonner]

Diff is Kawhi is the best defensive player on his team and draws the toughest wing/guard assignment every night.
and he is a more efficient 2 point and 3 point shooter. Nothing here is far fetched. His volume will go up in the next couple years and haters will recognize

[Edgar Friendly]

Jordan and Kobe while excellent defenders, would only spot guard the other team's best offensive wing player most games. Kawhi does it the whole game, EVERY night.

[T_L_P]

Diff is Kawhi is the best defensive player on his team and draws the toughest wing/guard assignment every night.

Not completely true.

Kawhi is by far our best defender out on the wings (and best on the team), but Danny will often guard the opposing team's best player if he's small or really quick.

CP3 completely embarrassed Kawhi last year whereas Danny did a good job on him.

[Rocketswin2013]

Not completely true.

Kawhi is by far our best defender out on the wings (and best on the team), but Danny will often guard the opposing team's best player if he's small or really quick.

CP3 completely embarrassed Kawhi last year whereas Danny did a good job on him.
i like your posts.

[eeeeeebro]

So its draft night and jordan and kawhi are available.. I select Michael jordan

[ShawkFactory]

So its draft night and jordan and kawhi are available.. I select Michael jordan
Boy you crazy

[Spurs m8]

I had no idea that Kawhi stans were THIS batshit crazy..

We aren't.

No kawhi stan or Spurs fan with a brain thinks this is true hahah

[AirBonner]

So its draft night and jordan and kawhi are available.. I select Michael jordan
That is easy to say when you know how one player turned out smh.

[Paul George 24]

Op Is Not A Kawhi's Fans

[swagga]

kwahi combines the best aspects of both jordan and pippen:
- he gets jordan's post and slashing game
- pippen's defense and thickness.
He even shoots the 3 like curry.

we seeing the goat rising. :rockon:

[Smoke117]

kwahi combines the best aspects of both jordan and pippen:
- he gets jordan's post and slashing game
- pippen's defense and thickness.
He even shoots the 3 like curry.

we seeing the goat rising. :rockon:

lol...Kawhi isn't even half the slasher that Pippen was...so forget Jordan.

[sportjames23]

OP :lol :lol :lol

[RRR3]

http://replygif.net/i/1481.gif

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Leonard this season is very comparable to Bird's '86 MVP season. I give the slight edge to Bird, but it's pretty close for anyone who was wondering.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

this fakkit also thinks Timmy is the GOAT IIRC:roll: :facepalm

[RRR3]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

this fakkit also thinks Timmy is the GOAT IIRC:roll: :facepalm
He does. Aldridge probably entered his top 25 after tonight

[Spurs5Rings2014]

25.8/9.8/6.8/2.0/0.6 is very comparable to 21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 ?

Your issue is you're comparing raw stats and not adjusting for minutes or pace. It would be akin to comparing Bird's (or Jordan for that matter) raw stats to Wilt's raw stats when Wilt was playing 48 minutes per game.


Adjusted for minutes

Bird Per 36:
24.5/9.3/6.4/1.9/0.6 with 3.1 TO on .496/.423/.896 - 18.6 FGA

Leonard Per 36:
23.0/7.5/2.8/1.9/1.1 with 1.6 TO on .506/.443/.874 - 16.5 FGA


Adjusted for possessions

Bird Per 100:
32.2/12.3/8.5/2.5/0.8 with 4.1 TO. 117 ORtg, 99 DRtg.

Leonard Per 100:
32.8/10.6/4.0/2.8/1.5 with 2.3 TO. 121 ORtg, 96 DRtg.


Advanced

Bird:
25.6 PER, .580 TS%, 27.6 USG%, .244 WS/48, 9.1 BPM, 8.7 VORP.

Leonard:
26.0 PER, .616 TS%, 25.8 USG%, .277 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, 6.2 VORP.


And don't give me that offensive system crap. The 86 Celtics were a better team than the 2016 Spurs, with many more dangerous scorers and play makers.

How were they better? Both are 67 win teams that only lost 1 home game. 2016 Spurs are arguably the GOAT defensive team with a GOAT SRS. And don't bring up the Warriors, it's not the Spurs' fault that the GOAT team just happens to be a part of the same season as them and in the same conference to boot, so more games played between them. The '86 Celtics would be remembered a lot differently if the '96 Bulls were around during their season.

If that is the case, which is debatable (both GOAT tier front courts with multiple HOF/all-stars across the board and play-makers, did Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw, Aldridge, etc die?) then how is Bird's stats any better for it? Shouldn't he have been going even more ham since he had such a more loaded team in your eyes? You're basically saying #1 option Leonard carried a bigger load and still got the same record with the most dominating point differential of all time.


Kawhi is a wonderful young player and I completely agree that he could really be something that would stack up to the greatest of the greats in a couple of seasons. But premature comparisons like this only foster resentment at one of the most likable guys in the league.

You have a point. Should I compare 24 year old Bird to 24 year old Leonard then? Let's.


Raw stats

Bird at 24:
21.2/10.9/5.5/2.0/0.8 with 3.5 TO on .478/.270/.863 - 18.3 FGA.

Leonard at 24:
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 with 1.5 TO on .506/.443/.874 - 15.1 FGA.


Per 36

Bird at 24:
19.4/9.9/5.0/1.8/0.7 with 3.2 TO - 16.7 FGA.

Leonard at 24:
23.0/7.5/2.8/1.9/1.1 with 1.6 TO - 16.5 FGA.


Per 100

Bird at 24:
25.6/13.2/6.6/2.4/0.9 with 4.2 OT. 107 ORtg, 99 DRtg.

Leonard at 24:
32.8/10.6/4.0/2.8/1.5 with 2.3 TO. 121 ORtg, 96 DRtg.


Advanced

Bird at 24:
19.9 PER, .528 TS%, 24.3 USG%, .160 WS/48, 5.1 BPM, 5.8 VORP.

Leonard at 24:
26.0 PER, .616 TS%, 25.8 USG%, .277 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, 6.2 VORP.

[Straight_Ballin]

What the fvck is up with people comparing players that played 20 years apart? The playstyle is not even the same anymore.

People are shook by the fact that they never saw MJ play live.

These threads all have the same theme in common. Made by a watered down generation watching a current watered down league that are insecure as fvck about their fan hood when they hear the stories about how great ball was in the 80's and 90's.
:roll:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

People are shook by the fact that they never saw MJ play live.

These threads all have the same theme in common. Made by a watered down generation watching a current watered down league that are insecure as fvck about their fan hood when they hear the stories about how great ball was in the 80's and 90's.
:roll:

1/9

[julizaver]

This sums it up nicely. Jordan better volume scorer/play-maker (due to offensive system), Leonard better everywhere else, honestly. Leonard hasn't reached his peak yet. Who knows? In a few years, he could be at Jordan's level (he'll be better than Curry, that's for sure).



Leonard this season is very comparable to Bird's '86 MVP season. I give the slight edge to Bird, but it's pretty close for anyone who was wondering.


:lol :lol :lol

[swagga]

Your issue is you're comparing raw stats and not adjusting for minutes or pace. It would be akin to comparing Bird's (or Jordan for that matter) raw stats to Wilt's raw stats when Wilt was playing 48 minutes per game.


Adjusted for minutes

Bird Per 36:
24.5/9.3/6.4/1.9/0.6 with 3.1 TO on .496/.423/.896 - 18.6 FGA

Leonard Per 36:
23.0/7.5/2.8/1.9/1.1 with 1.6 TO on .506/.443/.874 - 16.5 FGA


Adjusted for possessions

Bird Per 100:
32.2/12.3/8.5/2.5/0.8 with 4.1 TO. 117 ORtg, 99 DRtg.

Leonard Per 100:
32.8/10.6/4.0/2.8/1.5 with 2.3 TO. 121 ORtg, 96 DRtg.


Advanced

Bird:
25.6 PER, .580 TS%, 27.6 USG%, .244 WS/48, 9.1 BPM, 8.7 VORP.

Leonard:
26.0 PER, .616 TS%, 25.8 USG%, .277 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, 6.2 VORP.



How were they better? Both are 67 win teams that only lost 1 home game. 2016 Spurs are arguably the GOAT defensive team with a GOAT SRS. And don't bring up the Warriors, it's not the Spurs' fault that the GOAT team just happens to be a part of the same season as them and in the same conference to boot, so more games played between them. The '86 Celtics would be remembered a lot differently if the '96 Bulls were around during their season.

If that is the case, which is debatable (both GOAT tier front courts with multiple HOF/all-stars across the board and play-makers, did Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw, Aldridge, etc die?) then how is Bird's stats any better for it? Shouldn't he have been going even more ham since he had such a more loaded team in your eyes? You're basically saying #1 option Leonard carried a bigger load and still got the same record with the most dominating point differential of all time.



You have a point. Should I compare 24 year old Bird to 24 year old Leonard then? Let's.


Raw stats

Bird at 24:
21.2/10.9/5.5/2.0/0.8 with 3.5 TO on .478/.270/.863 - 18.3 FGA.

Leonard at 24:
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 with 1.5 TO on .506/.443/.874 - 15.1 FGA.


Per 36

Bird at 24:
19.4/9.9/5.0/1.8/0.7 with 3.2 TO - 16.7 FGA.

Leonard at 24:
23.0/7.5/2.8/1.9/1.1 with 1.6 TO - 16.5 FGA.


Per 100

Bird at 24:
25.6/13.2/6.6/2.4/0.9 with 4.2 OT. 107 ORtg, 99 DRtg.

Leonard at 24:
32.8/10.6/4.0/2.8/1.5 with 2.3 TO. 121 ORtg, 96 DRtg.


Advanced

Bird at 24:
19.9 PER, .528 TS%, 24.3 USG%, .160 WS/48, 5.1 BPM, 5.8 VORP.

Leonard at 24:
26.0 PER, .616 TS%, 25.8 USG%, .277 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, 6.2 VORP.
https://media.giphy.com/media/xPveZEkJybtCM/giphy.gif

[eeeeeebro]

If you told jordan to go out there and score 50 points he would do it... if you told kawhi to score 50 he would be like i wish...

[Wade's Rings]

Your issue is you're comparing raw stats and not adjusting for minutes or pace. It would be akin to comparing Bird's (or Jordan for that matter) raw stats to Wilt's raw stats when Wilt was playing 48 minutes per game.


Adjusted for minutes

Bird Per 36:
24.5/9.3/6.4/1.9/0.6 with 3.1 TO on .496/.423/.896 - 18.6 FGA

Leonard Per 36:
23.0/7.5/2.8/1.9/1.1 with 1.6 TO on .506/.443/.874 - 16.5 FGA


Adjusted for possessions

Bird Per 100:
32.2/12.3/8.5/2.5/0.8 with 4.1 TO. 117 ORtg, 99 DRtg.

Leonard Per 100:
32.8/10.6/4.0/2.8/1.5 with 2.3 TO. 121 ORtg, 96 DRtg.


Advanced

Bird:
25.6 PER, .580 TS%, 27.6 USG%, .244 WS/48, 9.1 BPM, 8.7 VORP.

Leonard:
26.0 PER, .616 TS%, 25.8 USG%, .277 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, 6.2 VORP.



How were they better? Both are 67 win teams that only lost 1 home game. 2016 Spurs are arguably the GOAT defensive team with a GOAT SRS. And don't bring up the Warriors, it's not the Spurs' fault that the GOAT team just happens to be a part of the same season as them and in the same conference to boot, so more games played between them. The '86 Celtics would be remembered a lot differently if the '96 Bulls were around during their season.

If that is the case, which is debatable (both GOAT tier front courts with multiple HOF/all-stars across the board and play-makers, did Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw, Aldridge, etc die?) then how is Bird's stats any better for it? Shouldn't he have been going even more ham since he had such a more loaded team in your eyes? You're basically saying #1 option Leonard carried a bigger load and still got the same record with the most dominating point differential of all time.



You have a point. Should I compare 24 year old Bird to 24 year old Leonard then? Let's.


Raw stats

Bird at 24:
21.2/10.9/5.5/2.0/0.8 with 3.5 TO on .478/.270/.863 - 18.3 FGA.

Leonard at 24:
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 with 1.5 TO on .506/.443/.874 - 15.1 FGA.


Per 36

Bird at 24:
19.4/9.9/5.0/1.8/0.7 with 3.2 TO - 16.7 FGA.

Leonard at 24:
23.0/7.5/2.8/1.9/1.1 with 1.6 TO - 16.5 FGA.


Per 100

Bird at 24:
25.6/13.2/6.6/2.4/0.9 with 4.2 OT. 107 ORtg, 99 DRtg.

Leonard at 24:
32.8/10.6/4.0/2.8/1.5 with 2.3 TO. 121 ORtg, 96 DRtg.


Advanced

Bird at 24:
19.9 PER, .528 TS%, 24.3 USG%, .160 WS/48, 5.1 BPM, 5.8 VORP.

Leonard at 24:
26.0 PER, .616 TS%, 25.8 USG%, .277 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, 6.2 VORP.

Bird at age 24 was in his 2nd year while Kawhi is in his 5th year. I'm not even going to get into the rest of your garbage.

[imdaman99]

Not even close but let's slow down on the Jordan slurping as well. Let's not act if he never had a poor playoff game before. Dude was terrible in game 3 after his team went down 0-2 to the Knicks. It's about what he did after his poor game that makes him goat.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Bird at age 24 was in his 2nd year while Kawhi is in his 5th year. I'm not even going to get into the rest of your garbage.

So Bird didn't come into the League NBA ready already and didn't finish in the top of the MVP debate right around where Leonard will finish this season? Bird also won a ring that season when he was 24, so he was quite easily arguably the best player in the league that year when taking into account both the regular season and play offs like Kobe in '09, '10 or Dirk in '11. But even still.


Raw Stats

5th Season Bird at 27 (PEAK YEARS):
24.2/10.1/6.6/1.8/0.9 with 3.0 TO on .492/.247/.888 in 38.3 MP with 19.5 FGA.

5th Season Leonard at 24 (PRE-PEAK YEARS):
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 with 1.5 TO on .506/.443/.874 in 33.1 MP with 15.1 FGA.


Per 36

5th Season Bird at 27 (PEAK YEARS):
22.7/9.5/6.2//1.7/0.8 with 2.8 TO with 18.3 FGA.

5th Season Leonard at 24 (PRE-PEAK YEARS):
23.0/7.5/2.8/1.9/1.1 with 1.6 TO with 16.5 FGA.


Per 100

5th Season Bird at 27 (PEAK YEARS):
30.3/12.7/8.3/2.3/1.1 with 3.8 TO. 115 ORtg, 101 DRtg.

5th Season Leonard at 24 (PRE-PEAK YEARS):
32.8/10.6/4.0/2.8/1.5 with 2.3 TO. 121 ORtg, 96 DRtg.


Advanced

5th Season Bird at 27 (PEAK YEARS):
24.2 PER, .552 TS%, 26.7 USG%, .215 WS/48, 7.8 BPM, 7.4 VORP.

5th Season Leonard at 24 (PRE-PEAK YEARS):
26.0 PER, .616 TS%, 25.8 USG%, .277 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, 6.2 VORP.


Maybe I should of prefaced my previous replies, you guys are getting the wrong idea about me. I'm not trying to take away from Bird's career or say he's not as good as he was. I actually am a huge Bird fan here and consider him greater than Magic/a top 5 player of all time. All I'm pointing out is that Leonard had an all-time great season and it's being overlooked a bit. I'm just posting stats up for all to see and asking for everyone to take into account context when looking at things. Do you take Wilt's 50 point season at face value when comparing it to any of Jordan's seasons? Or Oscar's triple double season? You have to adjust for pace/minutes/era/etc. Even if you just want to look at raw stats, though, Leonard's advanced stats are out of this world. Can we at least agree he had an amazing season that would have garnered him MVP talks if not for the GOAT offensive season on the GOAT team this year?

[Wade's Rings]

So Bird didn't come into the League NBA ready already and didn't finish in the top of the MVP debate right around where Leonard will finish this season? Bird also won a ring that season when he was 24, so he was quite easily arguably the best player in the league that year when taking into account both the regular season and play offs like Kobe in '09, '10 or Dirk in '11. But even still.


Raw Stats

5th Season Bird at 27 (PEAK YEARS):
24.2/10.1/6.6/1.8/0.9 with 3.0 TO on .492/.247/.888 in 38.3 MP with 19.5 FGA.

5th Season Leonard at 24 (PRE-PEAK YEARS):
21.2/6.8/2.6/1.8/1.0 with 1.5 TO on .506/.443/.874 in 33.1 MP with 15.1 FGA.


Per 36

5th Season Bird at 27 (PEAK YEARS):
22.7/9.5/6.2//1.7/0.8 with 2.8 TO with 18.3 FGA.

5th Season Leonard at 24 (PRE-PEAK YEARS):
23.0/7.5/2.8/1.9/1.1 with 1.6 TO with 16.5 FGA.


Per 100

5th Season Bird at 27 (PEAK YEARS):
30.3/12.7/8.3/2.3/1.1 with 3.8 TO. 115 ORtg, 101 DRtg.

5th Season Leonard at 24 (PRE-PEAK YEARS):
32.8/10.6/4.0/2.8/1.5 with 2.3 TO. 121 ORtg, 96 DRtg.


Advanced

5th Season Bird at 27 (PEAK YEARS):
24.2 PER, .552 TS%, 26.7 USG%, .215 WS/48, 7.8 BPM, 7.4 VORP.

5th Season Leonard at 24 (PRE-PEAK YEARS):
26.0 PER, .616 TS%, 25.8 USG%, .277 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, 6.2 VORP.


Maybe I should of prefaced my previous replies, you guys are getting the wrong idea about me. I'm not trying to take away from Bird's career or say he's not as good as he was. I actually am a huge Bird fan here and consider him greater than Magic/a top 5 player of all time. All I'm pointing out is that Leonard had an all-time great season and it's being overlooked a bit. I'm just posting stats up for all to see and asking for everyone to take into account context when looking at things. Do you take Wilt's 50 point season at face value when comparing it to any of Jordan's seasons? Or Oscar's triple double season? You have to adjust for pace/minutes/era/etc. Even if you just want to look at raw stats, though, Leonard's advanced stats are out of this world. Can we at least agree he had an amazing season that would have garnered him MVP talks if not for the GOAT offensive season on the GOAT team this year?

It's not only stats. We're talking about Overall impact. You put Bird or Kawhi on one of the worst teams in the League who does better? Kawhi again benefits from the system a lot and without it he simply wouldn't have the impact Bird did at least to me. He would get more MVP talk if not for Curry but it's not like Westbrook didn't have a great Season too or Durant and even Bron picked it up the last month or so.

[Titanball4]

Kawhi is a wonderful young player and I completely agree that he could really be something that would stack up to the greatest of the greats in a couple of seasons. But premature comparisons like this only foster resentment at one of the most likable guys in the league.

Is it time to discuss Kawhi among the greatest perimeter defenders ever and Curry among the greatest offensive peaks? Certainly. But calling Leonard better than Jordan/Bird and Curry the GOAT is nothing but extreme recency bias and/or fanboyism. A lot of the prevalent Lebron hate one sees everywhere among the basketball fandom is a reaction to this attitude among his diehard fans in his earlier career.

This^

[deja vu]

:biggums:

[ImKobe]

nikkas was actually comparing Kawhi to Larry ****ing Legend

[DonDadda59]

All the good dope gets shipped to ISH. :pimp:

[SouBeachTalents]

Why does this abomination of a thread have so many responses?

[Cold soul]

Great call OP you dumbass Kawhi isn't even on same universe as Jordan no comparison at all.

[riseagainst]

retarded ass Spurs fans actually said Leonard > MJ

:roll:

[tragicbronson]

Don't know if trolling or just stupid. Someone who thinks that probably never watched a single game of jordan, people who believe that post some stats or whatever, just, don't know what to say, bad trolling

[pauk]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/jwdrp.gif

[Foster5k]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/jwdrp.gif
:oldlol:

perfect reaction gif

[riseagainst]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/jwdrp.gif

:lol

[DingDengDong]

https://media.giphy.com/media/xPveZEkJybtCM/giphy.gif
Now this gif is relevant, not before.