Why the hell doesn't the entire league copy Kerr and Pop's system?

[stalkerforlife]

Constant movement. Constant screening. Constant cutting. Unselfish play.

How hard is it to realize that Pop and Kerr are running the best system with the best results possible?

[ScalsFan21]

Constant movement. Constant screening. Constant cutting. Unselfish play.

How hard is it to realize that Pop and Kerr are running the best system with the best results possible?

Starting to feel this way more and more. The only thing Bud (another Pop disciple) is missing is a superstar, but it is by far the best framework for a system in this NBA.

[Draz]

It's the players that are incompetent. You have superstars in some players, all-stars in others, and they can't come together as a whole. Those teams have been trained and raised ground up.

[navy]

Because it requires shooters and high iq players.

Spurs dont even run it anymore

[stalkerforlife]

Starting to feel this way more and more. The only thing Bud (another Pop disciple) is missing is a superstar, but it is by far the best framework for a system in this NBA.

It would maximize the potential of any team.

OKC is still running that same pick and roll/ISO BS over and over. Maybe Westbrook is incapable of playing in a high IQ system.

[PJR]

Hard to get guys to buy in. Certain star players still want their numbers, and want to play their way (Westbrook). High usage isolation is a way to get volume numbers, which many players still believe is what gets them paid, and helps achieves star status.


That's why is important to get the right players with the right mindset.

[stalkerforlife]

It's the players that are incompetent. You have superstars in some players, all-stars in others, and they can't come together as a whole. Those teams have been trained and raised ground up.

I would think constant moving, constant screening, and constant cutting would maximize the talents of any team...not just ones with a superstar player.

The Warriors certainly don't have a superstar player with Curry out and they're not missing a beat.

[Foster5k]

How hard is it to realize that Pop and Kerr are running the best system with the best results possible?
Um, those teams are stacked. Spurs are stacked and also the Warriors.

Not everyone can have a stacked team to run those systems.

[lilteapot]

Because it requires shooters and high iq players.

Spurs dont even run it anymore

They absolutely do run it, but you are right.

For that system to work, you need to have a pre-existing culture of unselfishness and a winning mentality, good coaching, shooters and players that understand the game at a high level.

[Young X]

Because you need the personnel for it. Not every team has multiple playmakers and high IQ guys at every position.

[stalkerforlife]

Because it requires shooters and high iq players.

Spurs dont even run it anymore

Cutting, screening, and movement requires any player that is willing. And a coach that enforces it.

[ScalsFan21]

It would maximize the potential of any team.

OKC is still running that same pick and roll/ISO BS over and over. Maybe Westbrook is incapable of playing in a high IQ system.

Which is a big part of the reason why I think he's fringe top 15 at best in this league. He is borderline incapable of playing true championship basketball and negates some of not only his own positive contributions but also the overall play of the team. He is mentally not capable of ironing out the glaring holes in his game to create a more win-conducive playstyle. It's a shame really given his unbelievable motor and athleticism.

[stalkerforlife]

Um, those teams are stacked. Spurs are stacked and also the Warriors.

Not everyone can have a stacked team to run those systems.

:wtf:

You don't need to be stacked to cut, screen, and move constantly.

[Mike smith]

It would maximize the potential of any team.

OKC is still running that same pick and roll/ISO BS over and over. Maybe Westbrook is incapable of playing in a high IQ system.
Problem with the thunder is they have worst 3pt shooting starting back court in the nba and warriors and Spurs and Hawks have multiple players who are good passers and have better all around skills then the thunder. Besides Westbrook and Durant they don't have any really good passers and thunders best 3pt shooting guard is liability on defense so he can't be on the floor.

[stalkerforlife]

Which is a big part of the reason why I think he's fringe top 15 at best in this league. He is borderline incapable of playing true championship basketball and negates some of not only his own positive contributions but also the overall play of the team. He is mentally not capable of ironing out the glaring holes in his game to create a more win-conducive playstyle. It's a shame really given his unbelievable motor and athleticism.

Agreed.

[SwayDizzle]

can't wait for luke to bring this system and mentality to the lakers.

[Foster5k]

:wtf:

You don't need to be stacked to cut, screen, and move constantly.
Lmao. What I'm saying is that their system looks good because their teams are stacked. If the Spurs didn't have Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Kawhi, LMA, etc their system wouldn't look no where near as good.

You give the Spurs the Clippers roster and they would look like shit running that system. It's the players more than the system.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I would think constant moving, constant screening, and constant cutting would maximize the talents of any team...not just ones with a superstar player.

The Warriors certainly don't have a superstar player with Curry out and they're not missing a beat.


You my dog, but that's one of the dumbest (non trolling) things anyone has said on this site.

[stalkerforlife]

can't wait for luke to bring this system and mentality to the lakers.

If Luke implements the system and the players buy in, they can overachieve.

[impulze]

Which is a big part of the reason why I think he's fringe top 15 at best in this league. He is borderline incapable of playing true championship basketball and negates some of not only his own positive contributions but also the overall play of the team. He is mentally not capable of ironing out the glaring holes in his game to create a more win-conducive playstyle. It's a shame really given his unbelievable motor and athleticism.
:applause:

[stalkerforlife]

You my dog, but that's one of the dumbest (non trolling) things anyone has said on this site.

You're highly mistaken if you think Green or Klay is a superstar talent.

A superstar talent would be equally as dominant in any situation, but those players rely on a superior system to flourish in the manner they do.

Guys like Curry could go to any team and make them an automatic playoff team.

[Tarik One]

Which is a big part of the reason why I think he's fringe top 15 at best in this league. He is borderline incapable of playing true championship basketball and negates some of not only his own positive contributions but also the overall play of the team. He is mentally not capable of ironing out the glaring holes in his game to create a more win-conducive playstyle. It's a shame really given his unbelievable motor and athleticism.
He has no other complimentary playmakers on his team. OKC doesn't even have a reliable shooter to kick it out to consistently.

Westbrook is often FORCED to play a certain way because of his weak sauce supporting cast.

[poido123]

Bacause you got to have the personnel and the will of the players to buy into a system like that.


It takes a lot of discipline and sacrifice.

[FKAri]

The number 1 problem: getting the players to buy in

[stalkerforlife]

I will admit this, though...OKC has truly dropped the ball in failing to sign a 2/3 that is a knockdown shooter and good defender.

I mean, how glaring can your hole be before you fix it?

[ScalsFan21]

One of my favorites things about this system is how it lessens the need for the types of things that only a select few guys can do. Creating ones own shot consistently is probably at the top of that list. Of course, Curry is as good as it gets in basketball at creating his own shot, so him being in the mix... that's just gravy for GSW and takes them from a top 3 team in the league today, to historically stacked.

You do need willing and above-average passing players to make it work, plus bigs who can stretch the floor, but the more guys do buy into it, the easier it gets for everyone involved. I agree though that there is an unfortunate shortage of guys who are genuinely capable of being a part of something like this.

[Mike smith]

I will admit this, though...OKC has truly dropped the ball in failing to sign a 2/3 that is a knockdown shooter and good defender.

I mean, how glaring can your hole be before you fix it?
Yup. They traded for randy foye for what reason I don't know. Courtney lee would have been perfect for them

[SwayDizzle]

If Luke implements the system and the players buy in, they can overachieve.
for some reason i feel they will buy into it after experiencing a dreadful season of selfish play as part of kobe's farewell tour. i get why the lakers opted for this strategy but it's frustrating nonetheless as a player. the lakers are young with talent and eager to establish themselves. walton is actually the perfect fit for them. was very glad to hear he got signed as coach.

[ScalsFan21]

He has no other complimentary playmakers on his team. OKC doesn't even have a reliable shooter to kick it out to consistently.

Westbrook is often FORCED to play a certain way because of his weak sauce supporting cast.

I'm not disagreeing with this on the surface. I just don't think Russell is the sort of player who would change up his game in a different situation. Part of it is system based, part of it is definitely due to the fact that they have no one to open the floor for Russell and KD, but I've seen too many instances of RWB's total tunnel vision and poor decision to draw the conclusion that he's capable of changing it.

Not many guys who have played his style of out-of-control basketball have ever been able to fully reign things in later on in their careers even on different teams, if you ask me.

[stalkerforlife]

Yup. They traded for randy foye for what reason I don't know. Courtney lee would have been perfect for them

Agreed.

[iznogood]

Cutting, screening, and movement requires any player that is willing. And a coach that enforces it.
You need enough guys who can shoot good for this to work. If you don't, the defenders are going to cheat on the screens and go under on the ball screens and there's going to be no space to cut. If there's not enough shooting, all the passing in the world is not going to get you the good looks.

[BasketballLove]

Yeah the system requires really good team culture, if Kerr/Pop were coaching Houston I think they'd have to bench Harden like half the season for not following their game plan. Most NBA players are more concerned about how they look rather then how their team does unfortunately.

[stephanieg]

I liked during the first Thunder/Spurs game when the Spurs would face a double team or someone would mishandle the ball and then they'd pass it out or reset the offense and get a better look, then Westbrook or Durant would barrel down the court into three defenders and get smothered.

Basketball isn't that complicated.

[Spurs m8]

Misleading thread title - inferring Kerrs system is his own, and not Pops

[90sgoat]

Dumber players, less educated players, less fundamental players.

Pop system is just some modern take on the Princeton and classic Motion offense.

Every player who went to college would be somewhat familiar.

I am willing to bet most guys in the 90s would be able to play the Pop offense. Heck, Phil got the triangle to work which is a much more complicated offense.

Players today are low fundamentals and many want their stats.

[90sgoat]

Misleading thread title - inferring Kerrs system is his own, and not Pops

Yeah, it's Pop's system without a low post player and with Steph Kerr shooting 3s instead of cutting like Parker, but otherwise same same.

[rmt]

Misleading thread title - inferring Kerrs system is his own, and not Pops

Yep, at least, put Pop's name first and give him some credit. He's moving away from it because of personnel (LMA and KL) and pace. It's suicide for the Spurs to speed up the pace against a team playing team ball with younger, more athletic players and MVP Curry.

I like that Pop will play the Beautiful Game against a team like OKC, but not GSW - gotta slow it down as much as possible.

[Noyze]

Starting to feel this way more and more. The only thing Bud (another Pop disciple) is missing is a superstar, but it is by far the best framework for a system in this NBA.

This is a good point, if the Hawks got Kevin Durant for example they'd be top 3 and most likely go to the finals in the east. They do play the same style as the Spurs and the Warriors without a superstar player.

[highwhey]

Gotta give credit to Durant for being loyal to his boy Westbrook, but I'm aure even he realizes he can't expect to win playing that style.

Would very much enjoy watching Durant play with the Spurs.

[sd3035]

Like others have stated, it's also about the players

Lebald, for example, wouldn't fit in that kind of system because he'd have to give up his stat padding

[Spurs m8]

Yep, at least, put Pop's name first and give him some credit. He's moving away from it because of personnel (LMA and KL) and pace. It's suicide for the Spurs to speed up the pace against a team playing team ball with younger, more athletic players and MVP Curry.

I like that Pop will play the Beautiful Game against a team like OKC, but not GSW - gotta slow it down as much as possible.

I wouldn't expect 99% of these GS ISH scrub fans to know what respect is, let alone practice it, tbh

[Klayup]

Same reason copying the triangle or 7 seconds or less (even though they didn't win a 'ship) didn't work. Or for that matter the same reason no one was able to duplicate the Celtics PnR killing D or Miami's blitz trap scheme that negated not having a rim protectior.

You need GREAT players to run a GREAT system. Unless you're the '04 Pistons, you ain't winning sh!t without great players making your scheme work.

[WorldWarriors]

The number 1 problem: getting the players to buy in
This is it. Players have to trust and buy into the system. Players have to accept their roles for the good of the team. Look at the Spurs who had Manu coming off the bench all those years. And look at Iggy who had to be convinced to do this for the good of the team. Players have to be willing to sacrifice.

[3ball]

This is it. Players have to trust and buy into the system. Players have to accept their roles for the good of the team. Look at the Spurs who had Manu coming off the bench all those years. And look at Iggy who had to be convinced to do this for the good of the team. Players have to be willing to sacrifice.
that isn't it.. well that's part of it.. but you missed the primary thing

[3ball]

You need enough guys who can shoot good for this to work.
:banana:

[hold this L]

Constant movement. Constant screening. Constant cutting. Unselfish play.

How hard is it to realize that Pop and Kerr are running the best system with the best results possible?
Because players, especially superstars wouldn't be willing to do it all for the team. JB was even commenting that the idea of an all star taking a bench role like Iggy is almost unbelievable. Too many egos.

[3ball]

Why the hell doesn't the entire league copy Kerr's system?


The 'entire league' doesn't have the best 3-point shooting backcourt of all time (by far) - so the league simply doesn't have the requisite personnel to copy Kerr's system.

This is similar to the Bulls and Lakers' triangle offense - the entire league didn't have players with scoring-champ ability (MJ, Shaq, Kobe) to produce offense in a post-centric, non-ball-dominant system.

[avonbarksdale]

hard to get players to buy in

they get paid off their stats, might prefer to score 25 a game and play selfish if they know they can't win that year anyway

[Nick Young]

It requires a disciplined and highly skilled roster with knockdown distance shooters. Most NBA team rosters don't meet those qualifications.

[Levity]

within the next decade, we'll most likely see these kind of offenses (and hopefully defenses) as the standard for NBA teams. kids growing up today are learning this game THIS WAY. so the future crop of NBA players are already going to be exposed to this.

[knicksman]

Coz its the toughest thing to do. Its the same as why cant everybody copy jordan or kobes game coz they cant. Their abilities are top notch. Of the highest order and you cant just easily copy them

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

I wouldn't expect 99% of these GS ISH scrub fans to know what respect is, let alone practice it, tbh

You're a ******

stfu

[G-train]

There are many effective playbooks.
Kerr's is based off Pop's, well Pop has lost many playoff series to other offences.

Helps to have Duncan, Manu and Parker for years, and also to have Curry, Klay and Green.
Pretty sure they could run the triangle and win the title too.

[Derka]

Celtics have been trying and they've done it...mediocrely. The simple fact for us is we don't have the collective shooting talent or the IQ to run that kind of system as effectively as the Warriors and Spurs do on a nightly basis. Way too many games where we shoot 30%.

[Thunderfan86]

Yup. They traded for randy foye for what reason I don't know. Courtney lee would have been perfect for them
Just because Courtney Lee would have perfect doesn't mean they were able to get him. Both teams have to agree in order to make it happen and Memphis didn't agree to what OKC was offering. Therefore, we had to settle for Foye and was able to save a little money in the process.