I've seen enough, Wilt was most dominant big ever

[Marchesk]

Numbers don't lie. What about Shaq? Swept six times in the playoffs. Needed Kobe and Wade to win titles. Imagine if he had to go through Hakeem with a stacked team every single season.

Shaq was super dominant in his prime, but he didn't lead the league in rebounds or blocked shots. Wilt did on numerous occasions. Shaq also didn't have the scoring titles Wilt did.

And Kareem? He was great too, but his six titles came with the two best point guards off all time. Without them, he was winning MVPs on a Lakers team that did nothing.

[Asukal]

I've seen enough footage of ILt and he doesn't pass the eye test. :oldlol: :roll: :lol :hammerhead:

[LAZERUSS]

I've seen enough footage of ILt and he doesn't pass the eye test. :oldlol: :roll: :lol :hammerhead:

The assukiss eyetest...

http://www.theouthousers.com/images/jck/ccoxdd-3.jpg

[Asukal]

The assukiss eyetest...

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/stk204742rke-blind-man-walking-with-the-aid-of-a-white-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=jc7wk67lgYK4uUh0bULplb2DnvkvJlfOjq%2BY81i8EBay8j JgeufiaiGBavdV8VeN

^The cherry picking, choker loving, copy pasting, ILt **** sucking, stat loving, clueless old geezer who has zero basketball knowledge whatsoever, Gaylauber! :applause: :bowdown: :applause:

[AirBonner]

Wilt today would be the equivalent of Nerlens Noel :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt today would be the equivalent of Nerlens Noel :oldlol:

Agreed...except instead of 6-10 (measured at NBA Draft express)... 7-1+.
Instead of 210 lbs... around 290.
Instead of a 7-4 wingspan, ... 7-8.

On top of that, did Noel compete in the 100, the 440, the triple-jump, and the high-jump in college?

Maybe you can provide us with some first-hand accounts of Noel dunking on a 12 ft rim; or touching the top-of-the-backboard; or dunking from the FT line (thanks Tex Winter); or a video in which he blocks a sky-hook by a 7-2 HOFer, not once, but twice in a row? Or perhaps an interview with a world-class body-builder who was stunned by Noel's strength?

Finally, if Noel had Wilt's post game, post moves, variety of shots, etc...

THAT Noel would be the equivalent of a WILT in today's NBA.

[Mr. Jabbar]

ilt

[Marchesk]

haq

[CuterThanRubio]

Except a 6-4 guard with limited shooting range has scored more points in the playoffs than him in less games.

Must have been easy to dominate in a league of inferior players, once he met up with the best teams his numbers plummeted accordingly.

[sd3035]

Ilt was a career loser who choked tremendously in the playoffs :lol

[LAZERUSS]

Except a 6-4 guard with limited shooting range has scored more points in the playoffs than him in less games.

Must have been easy to dominate in a league of inferior players, once he met up with the best teams his numbers plummeted accordingly.

Except a prime scoring Wilt averaged 33 ppg in his first six post-seasons, and covering 52 games. 12 games of 40+, and four of 50+.

And he had post-seasons of 28-30, 29-28, 30-31, 31-27, and 34-27 against the GOAT Defensive center in NBA history.

As well as demolishing that center and his dynasty with an epic 22-32-10 .556 series.

[Marchesk]

Wilt's first 7 seasons in the league when he was the top scorer, he averaged 32.8 points in the playoffs. After that, his role shifted from being a volume scorer to passing more as he had more balanced teams. On the Lakers, he had more of a Bill Russell role. West was the primary scorer.

The majority of Wilt's playoff games came after he was leading the league in scoring.

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain was never outrebounded by an opposing starting center in his 29 post-season series.

Can Shaq make that claim? Hakeem? Kareem? Russell? Ewing? Duncan?

[Asukal]

Chamberlain was never outrebounded by an opposing starting center in his 29 post-season series.

Can Shaq make that claim? Hakeem? Kareem? Russell? Ewing? Duncan?

Bill Russell only let ILt win the title against him once. 60's GOAT! :bowdown: :applause: :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

Bill Russell only let ILt win the title against him once. 60's GOAT! :bowdown: :applause: :bowdown:

None other than John Wooden would disagree with you...

Had Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, and coaches, and it would have been Wilt holding all those rings.

[Wade's Rings]

Playoff & Finals scoring numbers OP?

[Horatio33]

None other than John Wooden would disagree with you...

Had Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, and coaches, and it would have been Wilt holding all those rings.

Numerous Celtics who played on the team with Russell disagree, citing the fact Russell created great team chemistry. basketball isn't played on the stat sheet or the weight room. Otherwise Wilt would be the greatest player ever.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Ilt and dominant don't belong in the same sentence. :lol :lol

[LAZERUSS]

Playoff & Finals scoring numbers OP?

33.2 ppg
37.0 ppg
35.0 ppg
34.7 ppg
29.3 ppg
28.0 ppg

Now, let's examine those for the moment.

'60 playoffs.
Had series of 39 ppg, which included an at-the-limit game of 53 points, and then 31 ppg...and did so with the last place roster he inherited. Lost a game six in the EDF's to a 59-16 team by two points.

'61 playoffs.
Had a series of 37 ppg...in a 3-0 series loss, in which his teammates collectively shot .332 from the field.

'62 playoffs.
First round series of 37 ppg, culminated by a 56 point, at-the-limit game.
Had a 34 ppg series in the EDF's, and lost a game seven by two points to a HOF-laden 60-20 Celtic team. BTW, that Celtic team would beat the Lakers in game seven by three points.
This is where it gets interesting...Wilt was three points away from playing a Laker team that he had averaged 52 ppg against in the regular season.

'64 playoffs.
First round seven game series of 39-23 .559, with a clinching 39-26-10 game.
Took a hopeless roster up against EIGHT HOFers in the Finals, and lost 4-1, BUT, badly outplayed Russell with a 29-28 .517 series.

'65 playoffs.
Led his 40-40 team to a first round romp over Oscar's 48-32 Royals..including a clinching game of 38-27.
Then takes that same roster to a game seven, one point loss, against a peak Celtic team that went 62-18, ..and just castrated Russell with a 30-31 .555 series in the process.

'66 playoffs.
Loses in the first round to the Celtics, with a 28-30 .509 series...while his teammates collectivesly shot .352.

That covers his "scoring seasons."

[deja vu]

Most dominant and only 2 rings (lost 4 times). Yeah right. :roll:

[Wade's Rings]

33.2 ppg
37.0 ppg
35.0 ppg
34.7 ppg
29.3 ppg
28.0 ppg

Now, let's examine those for the moment.

'60 playoffs.
Had series of 39 ppg, which included an at-the-limit game of 53 points, and then 31 ppg...and did so with the last place roster he inherited. Lost a game six in the EDF's to a 59-16 team by two points.

'61 playoffs.
Had a series of 37 ppg...in a 3-0 series loss, in which his teammates collectively shot .332 from the field.

'62 playoffs.
First round series of 37 ppg, culminated by a 56 point, at-the-limit game.
Had a 34 ppg series in the EDF's, and lost a game seven by two points to a HOF-laden 60-20 Celtic team. BTW, that Celtic team would beat the Lakers in game seven by three points.
This is where it gets interesting...Wilt was three points away from playing a Laker team that he had averaged 52 ppg against in the regular season.

'64 playoffs.
First round seven game series of 39-23 .559, with a clinching 39-26-10 game.
Took a hopeless roster up against EIGHT HOFers in the Finals, and lost 4-1, BUT, badly outplayed Russell with a 29-28 .517 series.

'65 playoffs.
Led his 40-40 team to a first round romp over Oscar's 48-32 Royals..including a clinching game of 38-27.
Then takes that same roster to a game seven, one point loss, against a peak Celtic team that went 62-18, ..and just castrated Russell with a 30-31 .555 series in the process.

'66 playoffs.
Loses in the first round to the Celtics, with a 28-30 .509 series...while his teammates collectivesly shot .352.

That covers his "scoring seasons."

Per 100 possessions for both players?

[LAZERUSS]

Numerous Celtics who played on the team with Russell disagree, citing the fact Russell created great team chemistry. basketball isn't played on the stat sheet or the weight room. Otherwise Wilt would be the greatest player ever.

Interesting...in the one season in which Wilt had an equal roster, that was healthy... a 4-1 series blowout (and missed a sweep in game four by four points.)

Don't give me '66 either. Boston had numerous injuries that season, and were fully healthy in the playoffs. And again, Chamberlain slaughtered Russell, and Russell teammates overwhelmed Wilt's.

'68? :roll: :roll: :roll: The Sixers were decimated by injuries, including Wilt himself...and still lost a game seven by only four points.

You could argue '69, except that no team has ever been so poorly coached...and still were one blown play away in game four, from winning that series, 4-1.

From '60 thru '65...:roll: :roll: :roll: . It was a miracle that Wilt nearly beat them by twice by himself.

[LAZERUSS]

Per 100 possessions for both players?

Possessions do not equal points. FGAs and FTAs do. And please, don't forget to adjust for the eFG%'s, as well.

Not to mention that fact that Chamberlain was being defended by entire teams.

How about Wilt's 64 Finals? Averaged 29 ppg on 24 FGAs per game...and shot .517 in a post-season that shot .420. And did so against arguably one of the GOAT defensive teams, and against arguably the GOAT defensive season by a center...

and then Hakeem's '95 Finals.

Averaged 33 ppg on 29 FGAs, and shot an eFG% of .488 in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .508.

Move '64 Wilt into Hakeem's slot, give him 29 FGAs, and adjust Wilt's FG% from 517 in .420 to .508...and wallah... a .625 FG%, and 40 ppg.

[Asukal]

None other than John Wooden would disagree with you...

Had Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, and coaches, and it would have been Wilt holding all those rings.

LOL! ILt is a stat padding loser who had zero leadership qualities whatsoever. Russell was a proven leader who elevated his team to epic levels. Don't lump ILt together with the great Bill Russell, ILt is way below his level.

11>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2

:roll: :oldlol: :lol :banana: :hammerhead:

[LAZERUSS]

LOL! ILt is a stat padding loser who had zero leadership qualities whatsoever. Russell was a proven leader who elevated his team to epic levels. Don't lump ILt together with the great Bill Russell, ILt is way below his level.

11>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2

:roll: :oldlol: :lol :banana: :hammerhead:

Wilt in a must win game five of the '66 EDF's. Hangs a 46-34 game on Russell, but alas, his teammates contribute nothing...in a 120-112 loss.

Fast forward to the very next season. Now it is Russell and his Celtics who are down 3-1, and facing elimination. Did Russell rise up with a 46-34 game, when it was obvious that his teammates needed him to? Hell no, he quietly led them to slaughter like lambs...with a feeble FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting....in a 140-116 loss. How about the "choker" Wilt in that game? 29 points, 22 of which came in the first half when it was still close, as well as outrebounding Russell, 36-21; outshooting Russell, 10-16 to 2-5; and outassisting Russell, 13-7.

What happened? Where was Russell's 46-34 game?

[Asukal]

Wilt in a must win game five of the '66 EDF's. Hangs a 46-34 game on Russell, but alas, his teammates contribute nothing...in a 120-112 loss.

Fast forward to the very next season. Now it is Russell and his Celtics who are down 3-1, and facing elimination. Did Russell rise up with a 46-34 game, when it was obvious that his teammates needed him to? Hell no, he quietly led them to slaughter like lambs...with a feeble FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting....in a 140-116 loss. How about the "choker" Wilt in that game? 29 points, 22 of which came in the first half when it was still close, as well as outrebounding Russell, 36-21; outshooting Russell, 10-16 to 2-5; and outassisting Russell, 13-7.

What happened? Where was Russell's 46-34 game?

ELEVEN. :bowdown:

You can multiply ILt's rings by 5 and still come up short. :oldlol: :lol :hammerhead:

[Horatio33]

Interesting...in the one season in which Wilt had an equal roster, that was healthy... a 4-1 series blowout (and missed a sweep in game four by four points.)

Don't give me '66 either. Boston had numerous injuries that season, and were fully healthy in the playoffs. And again, Chamberlain slaughtered Russell, and Russell teammates overwhelmed Wilt's.

'68? :roll: :roll: :roll: The Sixers were decimated by injuries, including Wilt himself...and still lost a game seven by only four points.

You could argue '69, except that no team has ever been so poorly coached...and still were one blown play away in game four, from winning that series, 4-1.

From '60 thru '65...:roll: :roll: :roll: . It was a miracle that Wilt nearly beat them by twice by himself.

STRONGEST, FASTEST, BIGGEST WINGSPAN, INCREDIBLE ATHLETE.

MOST EXCUSES EVER.

Why would the STRONGEST, MOST DOMINANT, need the most EXCUSES?

Funniest one is '68 game 7. PHILLY WAS 3-1 UP IN THE SERIES!!!

1969 Russell had the final two weeks of the season off with SEVERE EXHAUSTION , after the Celtics had clinched the FINAL SEED in the East. So a team whose best player missed the LAST TWO WEEKS with SEVERE EXHAUSTION that finished with 48 wins, the bottom seed in the East, went on to beat a Knicks team who would WIN the TITLE THE VERY NEXT SEASON, then BEAT a team with WILT CHAMBERLAIN AND JERRY WEST on it, with the guy who was suffering from SEVERE EXHAUSTION, who PLAYER COACHED his team to victory in HIS LAST EVER GAME.

Some people fight through the excuses. Others just fail and use excuses.

[LAZERUSS]

STRONGEST, FASTEST, BIGGEST WINGSPAN, INCREDIBLE ATHLETE.

MOST EXCUSES EVER.

Why would the STRONGEST, MOST DOMINANT, need the most EXCUSES?

Funniest one is '68 game 7. PHILLY WAS 3-1 UP IN THE SERIES!!!

1969 Russell had the final two weeks of the season off with SEVERE EXHAUSTION , after the Celtics had clinched the FINAL SEED in the East. So a team whose best player missed the LAST TWO WEEKS with SEVERE EXHAUSTION that finished with 48 wins, the bottom seed in the East, went on to beat a Knicks team who would WIN the TITLE THE VERY NEXT SEASON, then BEAT a team with WILT CHAMBERLAIN AND JERRY WEST on it, with the guy who was suffering from SEVERE EXHAUSTION, who PLAYER COACHED his team to victory in HIS LAST EVER GAME.

Some people fight through the excuses. Others just fail and use excuses.

Yeah...let's not give Wilt any excuses in '68.

But just for the fun of it...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13


It was deemed remarkable that they even got to the Division Finals vs. Boston with all the injuries. Luke Jackson was playing with a badly pulled hamstring. When Lakers star Magic pulled his hamstring in '89 Finals, he could not even play the final game at all & much of the third game. While the 1989 Lakers get excused due to injury, the '68 Sixers do not. Back in the old days they were expected to gut it out under worse playing conditions, as Jackson did when he played the entire 1966 season on a broken leg, casually shrugging it off as shin splints.

There were times during the NY series when the hobbled Sixers were getting killed on the boards, as Bellamy & Reed were feasting on the offensive glass. They played Games 4, 5, and 6 consecutively. No days off in between.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwCmKvHJNoQ&t=16m20s

New York Times - Apr 18, 1968

But injuries have depleted the team that ended the Celtics' eight-year reign last season. Wally Jones, the jump-shooting Philadelphia guard with the game-breaking touch, is doubtful for Friday. He aggravated his right knee, first injured during the series with the New York Knickerbockers, early in the opening quarter and did not return.

Wilt Chamberlain, the 7-foot pillar of the 76ers, produced 20 points but was in obvious pain with an ailing right leg.




Williamson Daily News - Apr 10, 1968






DELAWARE COUNTY - April 13, 1968

Club Rated 'Most Courageous' By Hannum as Injuries Mount

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - The Philadelphia 76ers could be billed as the best touring troupe In basketball. All they need is a doctor to complete the cast.

Going into the fourth game Sunday of their National Basketball Association playoff series with the Boston Celtics, the 76ers are hurting from head to toe.

So what's new? Injuries have plagued the defending NBA champions since the opening of the season.



Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...


"Alex Hannum says this is the most courageous team he's ever coached," says Harvey Pollack, the 76ers' statistician. "The locker room looks like a hospital ward every time I walk in."

Pollack ticked off some of the cases, which read like a medical diary:

-Wilt Chamberlain (partial tear of the calf muscle in his right leg, a strain in his right thigh and an injured right toe):

-Wally Jones (injured knee cartilage):

-Luke Jackson (pulled hamstring muscle):

-Hal Greer (bursitus in his right knee):

-And, Billy Cunningham (broken right wrist).

"That's not mentioning (rookie) Jim Reid who had a knee operation after injuring it the first game of the season," said Pollack, "and Larry Costello," the veteran guard who tore an ankle tendon after one-third of the season was gone.

The most recent injury was to Chamberlain in Friday night's Eastern Division playoff contest with the Celtics. The dipper was given whirlpool treatments for the calf muscle tear, but Pollack wasn't sure how he'd respond.

The 76ers have nine men in uniform for the best-of-seven playoffs, which they lead, two games to one. But whether they'll have anybody left for the finals against the Western Division winner is anybody's guess.

The team's troubles multiplied in the Eastern Division semifinals against the New York Knickerbockers. Cunningham broke his wrist, knocking him out for the season, Jones and Jackson suffered their injuries and Chamberlain aggravated his perennial toe injury.

And when Boston thumped the 76ers in the opening game of their playoffs here last Friday, some predicted a quick knockout of the injury-riddled champs.

But Philadelphia whacked Boston two straight, including Thursday where an injury actually helped the 76ers cause, points out Pollack.

How so?

"Well, Chamberlain was hurt and he couldn't turn around to score-so he kept feeding Greer, and he scored 31," explained the statistician.

BUT, NO EXCUSES for Wilt, right?

[sd3035]

11 > 2

[Horatio33]

I'm not say no excuses for Wilt. But it seems that all you have are excuses for Wilt. Other teams had injuries too. But you never seem to recognise them. All you ever say is "poor Wilt." Other teams had it bad. Elgin Baylor blew his knee out in '65 and was never the same, but Jerry West still dragged his team to the finals. No one ever mentions that.

[LAZERUSS]

11 > 2

Ostertag 2-0 (8-1 overall) over Shaq.

Dumars 3-1 over Jordan.

Bird 2-0 (6-0 overall) over Jordan.

Eaton, Oliver Miller, Mychal Thompson, Vlade Divac...you name them...over Hakeem.

Wallace 2-0 over Shaq.

Pierce 2-0 over Lebron.

Moses 2-0 KAJ (including beating him with a 40-42 team, and then sweeping him in the Finals.)

Worthy, 2-1 over Bird.

[kamil]

Ilt's opponents:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/3b0cb844e81c7aa1be858463a539fc10/tumblr_n9hy2wHcCr1ren1y6o1_1280.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

I'm not say no excuses for Wilt. But it seems that all you have are excuses for Wilt. Other teams had injuries too. But you never seem to recognise them. All you ever say is "poor Wilt." Other teams had it bad. Elgin Baylor blew his knee out in '65 and was never the same, but Jerry West still dragged his team to the finals. No one ever mentions that.

Basketball is a TEAM game. The ONLY series in which you could blame Wilt at all, was the '69 Finals. And his COACH was the reason that that team lost.

I don't blame West for losing when he played well. But he was awful in game seven of the '70 Finals, and was awful in the '73 Finals. In fact, he was awful in the '72 Finals, as well, but fortunately for him, Chamberlain dominated that series.

I don't blame for MJ losing to Bird's Celtics. Or Lebron, as poorly as he played, losing in the '07 Finals. Or Lebron in '14 and '15.

Again, if a player plays brilliantly, as Chamberlain did in virtually every series, even after his horrific knee injury...except the '69 Finals...how can you blame him for "losing?"

[LAZERUSS]

Ilt's opponents:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/3b0cb844e81c7aa1be858463a539fc10/tumblr_n9hy2wHcCr1ren1y6o1_1280.jpg

Looks like the opponents that went 6-0 against MJ...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/cb/86/c8cb8623c64b9fb3595f41779e866b34.jpg

[Da Real Lambo]

Ilt's opponents:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/3b0cb844e81c7aa1be858463a539fc10/tumblr_n9hy2wHcCr1ren1y6o1_1280.jpg

ilt :lol

[warriorfan]

http://40.media.tumblr.com/3b0cb844e81c7aa1be858463a539fc10/tumblr_n9hy2wHcCr1ren1y6o1_1280.jpg

#11 is LAZERUSS

[Horatio33]

Basketball is a TEAM game. The ONLY series in which you could blame Wilt at all, was the '69 Finals. And his COACH was the reason that that team lost.

I don't blame West for losing when he played well. But he was awful in game seven of the '70 Finals, and was awful in the '73 Finals. In fact, he was awful in the '72 Finals, as well, but fortunately for him, Chamberlain dominated that series.

I don't blame for MJ losing to Bird's Celtics. Or Lebron, as poorly as he played, losing in the '07 Finals. Or Lebron in '14 and '15.

Again, if a player plays brilliantly, as Chamberlain did in virtually every series, even after his horrific knee injury...except the '69 Finals...how can you blame him for "losing?"

See this is why people don't like your style. You bring up Wilt's injuries to so he's seen in a better light, then don't mention other players injuries to make Wilt look better.

1970 finals, West had TWO SPRAINED THUMBS. Try dribbling a basketball with those injuries, nevermind passing and shooting.

[LAZERUSS]

See this is why people don't like your style. You bring up Wilt's injuries to so he's seen in a better light, then don't mention other players injuries to make Wilt look better.

1970 finals, West had TWO SPRAINED THUMBS. Try dribbling a basketball with those injuries, nevermind passing and shooting.

Aside from me, or perhaps a couple of other's here...how often had someone brought up West as being the real choker in that game seven? Which, even injured, he was. Frazier torched him. But, all we read is how Reed outplayed Wilt (by getting outscored, 21-4, outrebounded, 24-3, and outshot 10-16 to 2-5.)

Geezus...it was a MIRACLE that Chamberlain even played in that post-season...much less hanging a 23-24 .625 FG% seven game Finals.

[Stringer Bell]

See this is why people don't like your style. You bring up Wilt's injuries to so he's seen in a better light, then don't mention other players injuries to make Wilt look better.

1970 finals, West had TWO SPRAINED THUMBS. Try dribbling a basketball with those injuries, nevermind passing and shooting.

Yeah, West's thumbs were all ****ed up. He was still productive offensively, scoring 28. He just got lit up on defense trying to guard Walt, who had 36 and 19. Ppl have said that the 19 assists was not accurate stat-keeping and he had a lot less, but whatever, Walt still had one of the great game 7 performances. West had an amazing one the year before in defeat, putting up 43, 13, and 12 with an injured hamstring.

I like West's attitude about the injuries though. He said "it doesn't matter how my fingers were, I didn't get the job done and we lost".

[Stringer Bell]

2 rings (lost 4 times).

Sounds familiar

[Deuce Bigalow]

OP obviously hasn't seen Mikan.

[Psileas]

See this is why people don't like your style. You bring up Wilt's injuries to so he's seen in a better light, then don't mention other players injuries to make Wilt look better.

1970 finals, West had TWO SPRAINED THUMBS. Try dribbling a basketball with those injuries, nevermind passing and shooting.

:rolleyes:
People "don't like his style" because they are clueless trolls and, as long as they realize they lose battle after battle, after his walls of text bury their stupidity, become even bigger trolls.
They wouldn't give one shit whether he brings up West's injuries. They wouldn't change their stance to the better if he did, on the contrary. They don't bring up anything that backs up Wilt, so, all is fair in war.

[Gileraracer]

Ilt is the second biggest choker in history, right after LeBaldo

[Horatio33]

:rolleyes:
People "don't like his style" because they are clueless trolls and, as long as they realize they lose battle after battle, after his walls of text bury their stupidity, become even bigger trolls.
They wouldn't give one shit whether he brings up West's injuries. They wouldn't change their stance to the better if he did, on the contrary. They don't bring up anything that backs up Wilt, so, all is fair in war.

How are the books on 60's basketball, including Goliath by Wilt "stupidity?"

Wilt had injuries. So have a lot of great players. But Wilt defenders are the only fans that use injuries as an excuse over and over again, and then trash other players that were injured without mentioning this injuries.

It's funny how the STRONGEST, MOST ATHLETIC BIG MAN EVER has so many excuses. More than any player in NBA history. Yet because he has historic numbers in an era where there were more possessions and the league wasn't as athletic, (yes there were very athletic players during his era, just not as many as modern times.)

I will give Wilt this, he was a prototype, a way ahead of his time player in a league that only had up to 12 teams so the talent was less concentrated, teams had multiple all stars. He was an athletic marvel of his time, but isn't that a significant advantage over guys like Johnny Red Kerr and Willie Naulls, while quality centres in their day, wouldn't be able to hang at centre because of height issues and lack of basic athleticism? Not knocking those guys but for every Russell or Thurmond there are a few Lovellettes and Irmhoffs who were physical players due to lack of skills and athleticism.

Not saying Andre Drummond or Nerlens Noel would be 6x MVP in that era or averaging 40ppg but I think there ability to move quicker and jump would well not stop Wilt and Russell but is more of a deterrent than a ground bound 6 foot 9 guy.

I love the sixties guys, but the game is a different sport, dare I say a better sport now. Not saying Wilt would be a back up or averaging 12 and 8, but with less possessions and smarter, fitter, more athletic players he would average more modern numbers. Still impressive, but nowhere near as gaudy as in his prime.

Sorry about the disjointed writing, I know it's not very coherent but what can I say, I'm not as dominant a writer as Milton Gross was in the 60's.

[NZStreetBaller]

You had me at "needed kobe and wade to win titles" one thing shaq has in common with lebron:bowdown:

[Psileas]

How are the books on 60's basketball, including Goliath by Wilt "stupidity?"

Wilt had injuries. So have a lot of great players. But Wilt defenders are the only fans that use injuries as an excuse over and over again, and then trash other players that were injured without mentioning this injuries.

It's funny how the STRONGEST, MOST ATHLETIC BIG MAN EVER has so many excuses. More than any player in NBA history. Yet because he has historic numbers in an era where there were more possessions and the league wasn't as athletic, (yes there were very athletic players during his era, just not as many as modern times.)

I will give Wilt this, he was a prototype, a way ahead of his time player in a league that only had up to 12 teams so the talent was less concentrated, teams had multiple all stars. He was an athletic marvel of his time, but isn't that a significant advantage over guys like Johnny Red Kerr and Willie Naulls, while quality centres in their day, wouldn't be able to hang at centre because of height issues and lack of basic athleticism? Not knocking those guys but for every Russell or Thurmond there are a few Lovellettes and Irmhoffs who were physical players due to lack of skills and athleticism.

Not saying Andre Drummond or Nerlens Noel would be 6x MVP in that era or averaging 40ppg but I think there ability to move quicker and jump would well not stop Wilt and Russell but is more of a deterrent than a ground bound 6 foot 9 guy.

I love the sixties guys, but the game is a different sport, dare I say a better sport now. Not saying Wilt would be a back up or averaging 12 and 8, but with less possessions and smarter, fitter, more athletic players he would average more modern numbers. Still impressive, but nowhere near as gaudy as in his prime.

Sorry about the disjointed writing, I know it's not very coherent but what can I say, I'm not as dominant a writer as Milton Gross was in the 60's.

Look all over this place and tell me with a straight face that these are the types of arguments that you find in anti-Wilt guys. They aren't, they use lame, simplistic "arguments" like the number of titles, or like "22 ppg". Given this and, most importantly, given that this crap has been answered and debunked at nauseam, why still go into detailed and friendly discussions with people with trollish agendas?

Wilt had injuries and, rightfully, couldn't perform as great through some of these. How is this an excuse? Bird has underperformed a lot (for an all-time GOAT) due to injuries and his fans surely play the same card. Kareem has missed a Finals game to an injury and nobody holds this against him. Isiah played badly in Game 7 of the '88 Finals due to an injury and some believe that the Pistons would have won the title if he hadn't been injured. Same with Russell in '58. So, is it unreasonable that a non injured Wilt could similarly have won a title in '68 or '70?
He wasn't an athletic marvel "for his day", but for any day. If you replace modern medicine, gyms, general lifestyle, etc, with the ones of Wilt's time, today's athletes are not better, faster, stronger, etc. If you bring Wilt today, he becomes even more of a monster than he was. He'd always have an athletic advantage and that's perfectly OK to me, it's not as if most modern legends don't enjoy similar advantages and nobody holds this against them.
And, no, athletes are definitely not "smarter". Better prepaired due to prior knowledge, yes, but their capacity for learning and adapting is not any different to the ones of Wilt's era. Nor is this better preparation something that ended in the 80's or 90's (the decades that many define as the beginning of the "modern era", whatever this means) and basketball hasn't evolved since.

[feyki]

haq

Hack a Haq :biggums:

[Wade's Rings]

Possessions do not equal points. FGAs and FTAs do. And please, don't forget to adjust for the eFG%'s, as well.

Not to mention that fact that Chamberlain was being defended by entire teams.

How about Wilt's 64 Finals? Averaged 29 ppg on 24 FGAs per game...and shot .517 in a post-season that shot .420. And did so against arguably one of the GOAT defensive teams, and against arguably the GOAT defensive season by a center...

and then Hakeem's '95 Finals.

Averaged 33 ppg on 29 FGAs, and shot an eFG% of .488 in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .508.

Move '64 Wilt into Hakeem's slot, give him 29 FGAs, and adjust Wilt's FG% from 517 in .420 to .508...and wallah... a .625 FG%, and 40 ppg.

Per 100 possessions account for FGAs and FTAs :confusedshrug:

[mr4speed]

Basketball is a TEAM game. The ONLY series in which you could blame Wilt at all, was the '69 Finals. And his COACH was the reason that that team lost.

I don't blame West for losing when he played well. But he was awful in game seven of the '70 Finals, and was awful in the '73 Finals. In fact, he was awful in the '72 Finals, as well, but fortunately for him, Chamberlain dominated that series.

I don't blame for MJ losing to Bird's Celtics. Or Lebron, as poorly as he played, losing in the '07 Finals. Or Lebron in '14 and '15.

Again, if a player plays brilliantly, as Chamberlain did in virtually every series, even after his horrific knee injury...except the '69 Finals...how can you blame him for "losing?"

Excellent point - Teams win championships - you have to look at a lot more than just counting rings.

[TommyGriffin]

It's funny how Lazeruss is obsessed with the context when regarding Wilt's losses and then will turn around and ignore the context regarding Wilt's statistics.

[LAZERUSS]

It's funny how Lazeruss is obsessed with the context when regarding Wilt's losses and then will turn around and ignore the context regarding Wilt's statistics.

Like what?

Like winning scoring titles by 20 ppg?
Like winning rpg titles by 5 rpg?
Like averaging 3+ more apg in a season, than any other center ever averaged in NBA history?

Like averaging 22.5 rpg in his 17 post-season games, in his very last NBA season...and in a league that averaged 50.6 rpg per team (last year the NBA post-season average was 45.6 rpg per team BTW.)

Like having 32 60+ point games in his 14 seasons, and in that same span, there were a combined total of FIVE more?

I could go down the list, but Chamberlain was LIGHT YEARS better than his peers. Not only that, but a PEAK Kareem never approached any of Wilt's records, and he played FOUR years IN the Wilt-era. The same KAJ, who had age 39 was routinely hanging 40+ point games on Hakeem and Ewing.

Look, no rational Wilt fan would ever claim that he would be a 50 ppg - 25 rpg player in today's NBA. BUT, how about this...

Cousins just averaged 26.9 ppg in 34.6 mpg, and on a .477 eFG%.
Drummond just had a season of 14.8 rpg in 32.9 mpg.
Whiteside averaged 3.7 bpg in 29.1 mpg.
D Jordan had his second consecutive season of a .700 eFG%.

Now, give a peak Chamberlain 40 mpg, and using those averages (which would be inferior to what he would average today BTW)...

31.1 ppg
18.0 rpg
5.1 bpg

Regarding Wilt's FG%...

he had a season of 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%, in a league that shot an eFG% of .441.

He also had another season of 13.2 ppg on a .727 FG%, in a league that shot .456.

Adjusting his FG% to 2016 levels, and his '67 FG% in a league that shot .441, to 2016, in a league that shot .502... .777.

Adjust his '73 FG% to 2016 levels... an even .800.


Now, we KNOW that Wilt averaged 46 mpg in his CAREER (and 47 mpg in his 160 post-season games)... 40 mpg is probably LOW for him.

But in any case...a prime Chamberlain would easily translate to 31-18-5-5 .600 in today's NBA. All with the best defense in the league.

[LAZERUSS]

How are the books on 60's basketball, including Goliath by Wilt "stupidity?"

Wilt had injuries. So have a lot of great players. But Wilt defenders are the only fans that use injuries as an excuse over and over again, and then trash other players that were injured without mentioning this injuries.

It's funny how the STRONGEST, MOST ATHLETIC BIG MAN EVER has so many excuses. More than any player in NBA history. Yet because he has historic numbers in an era where there were more possessions and the league wasn't as athletic, (yes there were very athletic players during his era, just not as many as modern times.)



Psileas already covered most everything in your post, but I would like to add a little to it.

Wilt gets ZERO EXCUSES for his injuries (to himself, his teammates, or both.) Clippersclown makes a post every week about how Wilt "choked" in the '68 EDF's. And every time he does, I post the articles which had that Sixer squad missing key players for the entire series, and other key players playing injured...including Chamberlain, who played every minute of that seven game series with an assortment of injuries, and NOTICEABLY LIMPING throughout. In fact, he was playing with nearly the same injury that forced Reed to miss one half of one game, three fourths of another, and then an entire game... in the last three games of the '70 Finals.

And the difference between Wilt and these other injured stars? Wilt still played BRILLIANTLY. In the '68 EDF's, he averaged 22-25-7. Not only that, but in what could have been a clinching game five, he just shelled Russell. Thru those first five games... 24-23-7 and on a .539 FG%. When Bird, Reed, or West were injured...HUGE dropoffs. Hell, KAJ missed game a clinching Finals game with a sprained ankle. Wilt was PLAYING with FAR worse injuries, as well as returning from major knee surgery WAY ahead of schedule (and at way less than 100% BTW.)

In fact, in the '70 Finals, he basically battled a much healthier MVP Reed to a draw in the first four games of that series. And he was pounding him in game five when Reed went down. The "bashers" then blame WILT for that series loss...despite Wilt averaging 29.3 ppg, 24.0 rpg, and on a .709 FG% in the last three games of that series.

Meanwhile, how often have you read anyone blaming WEST for that game seven loss? Sure, he played hurt...but again, the difference... Wilt generally played exceptionally well, even injured...while West puked all over the floor, and at both ends.

I have read those here that have said, "well, Wilt had a 45-27 game six, how come he "only" had a 21-24 game seven?"

That's what I call ... The Wilt Double Standard. Here was a Wilt playing at far less than 100%...BUT, he was EXPECTED to hang a 45-27 game EVERY TIME he stepped on the floor.

How come a HEALTHY MJ followed up his 63 point playoff game with a 19 point game in a sweeping blowout loss? Why didn't HE score 63 every game he played?

How come a prime KAJ could put up a 36 point game six in the '74 Finals, and then get badly outplayed by a foul-plagued Cowens in a blowout game seven loss at home?

How come Shaq had a paltry 20 point clinching blowout loss in game fibe of the '04 Finals...and after a 36 point game four?

How about a peak Kobe in a game seven blowout loss against Phoenix in the first round in '06 with 24 points...and following a 50 point game six?

YET, with Wilt... "How come he didn't put up a 45-27 every game in his post-season career?"

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, a prime scoring Wilt averaged 32.8 ppg in his 52 playoff games...30 of which came against Russell and his Dynasty.

A peak Chamberlain played in 67 playoff games, and averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 from the field (in post-seasons in which the league average was about .425 in that same span.) Oh, and 41 of those 67 games were against Russell (35), and Thurmond (6).

A prime Wilt played in 80 playoff games...and averaged 29.3 ppg, 26.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, and shot .518 (again, against league that shot .430.)

Furthermore, Wilt missed the playoffs in a season in which he averaged 44.8 ppg. Give him an easy 35 ppg in that post-season, and he would have been well into the 30+ ppg range in his prime.

He played a total of 63 games post-injury, and in which his role was changed.

And finally, in between the 80 prime games, and the 63 post-injury games...he had a playoff run of 17 games, in which his incompetent coach had no idea on how to use him...and the result was the worst post-season of his career.

Overall, Wilt had post-season runs of 28.0 ppg, 29.3 ppg, 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. Included were series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg. And in that span, he had 12 games, in 52, of 40+ points, including four of 50, 50, 53, and 56 points.

Then there was his '67 post-season title run, in which he averaged 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, 9.0 apg, and shot .579 from the field. Included were back-to-back series in which he averaged a triple-double... 28.0 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, and on a .617 FG%...followed by a series (against Russell) of 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, and on a .556 FG%. BTW, in his first two playoff games that post-season, he hung games of 41 and 37 points, and on a combined 35-54 shooting (.648.) Clearly, he could have scored much more had he needed to.


Again...a peak Wilt averaged a 30-27-5- and likely 7+ bpg...on FG%'s that were nearly a full ten percentage points higher than the post-season league average. All in a span of 67 games.

Think about that...how many other greats have put up even one series of 30-27-5-7 and shooting way over the league average? Hell, you would be hard-pressed to find a GOAT who had ONE GAME of 30-27-5-7.

And none of that includes his crushing domination on the glass, or defensive brilliance, either. For instance, he played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by an opposing center in any of them. Furthermore, in the one 4 game series in which he was outrebounded (by PF Jerry Lucas), it was by one rpg. However, when the two battled each other as centers, Wilt outrebounded Lucas by a 23.2 to 9.8 rpg margin.

Wilt also was holding his HOF peers to post-season series of .343, .358, .373, .386, .392, .397, and .399. And an old Wilt held a peak KAJ to two consecutive playoff series of .481 and .457 ( and .414 in the last four games of that series.)

In his six Finals, Chamberlain outshot his opposing centers by a collective .559 to .439 margin. All while outscoring them overall, and crushing them on the glass.

That should put Wilt's "30-22-18" in a much better CONTEXT.

[LAZERUSS]

Look all over this place and tell me with a straight face that these are the types of arguments that you find in anti-Wilt guys. They aren't, they use lame, simplistic "arguments" like the number of titles, or like "22 ppg". Given this and, most importantly, given that this crap has been answered and debunked at nauseam, why still go into detailed and friendly discussions with people with trollish agendas?

Wilt had injuries and, rightfully, couldn't perform as great through some of these. How is this an excuse? Bird has underperformed a lot (for an all-time GOAT) due to injuries and his fans surely play the same card. Kareem has missed a Finals game to an injury and nobody holds this against him. Isiah played badly in Game 7 of the '88 Finals due to an injury and some believe that the Pistons would have won the title if he hadn't been injured. Same with Russell in '58. So, is it unreasonable that a non injured Wilt could similarly have won a title in '68 or '70?
He wasn't an athletic marvel "for his day", but for any day. If you replace modern medicine, gyms, general lifestyle, etc, with the ones of Wilt's time, today's athletes are not better, faster, stronger, etc. If you bring Wilt today, he becomes even more of a monster than he was. He'd always have an athletic advantage and that's perfectly OK to me, it's not as if most modern legends don't enjoy similar advantages and nobody holds this against them.
And, no, athletes are definitely not "smarter". Better prepaired due to prior knowledge, yes, but their capacity for learning and adapting is not any different to the ones of Wilt's era. Nor is this better preparation something that ended in the 80's or 90's (the decades that many define as the beginning of the "modern era", whatever this means) and basketball hasn't evolved since.

Again...

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[deja vu]

Most dominant in the regular season.

Post-season tells a different story.

30 -> 22 -> 18

[sd3035]

2nd after Tim Duncan among gay players :applause: