Looking back Michael Jeffrey didnt deserve DPOY in 88

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

He wasnt even the best defender on his team. Oakley was. Bulls has a top 3 D in 88 and dropped out of the top 10 without Oak the next season SMH. This is despite having the exact same core and with them getting more experience they shouldve been better. But back then MJ was a boxscore fiending for steals and blocks, gambling his team out of position on defense

Bulls led league in defensive rebounding in 88 by far (gap between them and 2nd best rebounding team was as big as 2nd and 17th best rebounding team). Oak was best rebounder in NBA leg OREB and DREB!!! WOW. And Oak was one of the best post defenders, shut the paint down and played great team D

Oak shouldnt have been DPOY either but MJ winnin was a joke

Hakeem
Pat
Eaton

ARE EASILY top 3 and far ahead of anyone else in 88. If u disagree #ydksab
Hakeem was flat out robbed that was one of the best defensive years of his career and u tellin me Michael Jeff was a better defender than a top 3-5 defender ever in one his best defensive seasons? :roll: :roll: http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/camby.png

Laimbeer
Rodman
were better on D too and Oak as well.

MJ wasnt the defensive menace hed be later on yet. He couldnt guard the elite scorers in 88, Clyde lit him up among otters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3a-fEIRJ-k

[StephHamann]

I was not born in 88, but Lebron should have won in 09,10,12,13

[Steven Kerry]

Looking back the OP didn't deserve to be born

[ClipperRevival]

He wasnt even the best defender on his team. Oakley was. Bulls has a top 3 D in 88 and dropped out of the top 10 without Oak the next season SMH. This is despite having the exact same core and with them getting more experience they shouldve been better. But back then MJ was a boxscore fiending for steals and blocks, gambling his team out of position on defense

Bulls led league in defensive rebounding in 88 by far (gap between them and 2nd best rebounding team was as big as 2nd and 17th best rebounding team). Oak was best rebounder in NBA leg OREB and DREB!!! WOW. And Oak was one of the best post defenders, shut the paint down and played great team D

Oak shouldnt have been DPOY either but MJ winnin was a joke

Hakeem
Pat
Eaton

ARE EASILY top 3 and far ahead of anyone else in 88. If u disagree #ydksab
Hakeem was flat out robbed that was one of the best defensive years of his career and u tellin me Michael Jeff was a better defender than a top 3-5 defender ever in one his best defensive seasons? :roll: :roll: http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/camby.png

Laimbeer
Rodman
were better on D too and Oak as well.

MJ wasnt the defensive menace hed be later on yet. He couldnt guard the elite scorers in 88, Clyde lit him up among otters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3a-fEIRJ-k

I have never seen anyone EVER mention Oakley in the DPOY conversation until now.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I have never seen anyone EVER mention Oakley in the DPOY conversation until now.
I didnt say Oak should be in DPOY convo. Did u not read my post:biggums:

the DPOY shouldve been b/w Hakeem, Pat and Eaton and Hakeem shouldve won

I was just saying guys like Dennis, laimbeer and even on his own team Oak was better defensively. Thats it

[Dr Hawk]

Hakeem (he was a DPOY contender during his whole prime) or MJ. Both of them deserved the DPOY. Flip a coin

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Hakeem (he was a DPOY contender during his whole prime) or MJ. Both of them deserved the DPOY. Flip a coin
Hakeem deserved it
Flip a coin between Pat and Mark for 2nd

[ClipperRevival]

I didnt say Oak should be in DPOY convo. Did u not read my post:biggums:

the DPOY shouldve been b/w Hakeem, Pat and Eaton and Hakeem shouldve won

I was just saying guys like Dennis, laimbeer and even on his own team Oak was better defensively. Thats it

Oakley was a very good positional defender, rebounder with a great mid-range jumper. A great defender he was not. You obviously wasn't even born during this era so why talk about it?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Oakley was a very good positional defender, rebounder with a great mid-range jumper. A great defender he was not. You obviously wasn't even born during this era so why talk about it?
Rebounding is an important part of D and Oak was the best rebounder in the association. He was a GREAT post defender howd u miss that. '

If Oak wasnt a great defender how they go from top 3 to out of top 10 next season without Oak? They had the same damn core lol

Stop dodging the question.

Michael has no argument over Hakeem, Pat or Mark

[feyki]

Who is pat ?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Who is pat ?
:biggums: :biggums:

who u think Pat is........SMH:biggums:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Oakly wasn't NEARLY as good a post defender in '88 that he would become in the early-mid 90's. OP is smoking that good stuff. :roll:

[riseagainst]

I was not born in 88, but Lebron should have won in 09,10,12,13

[AirFederer]

He wasnt even the best defender on his team. Oakley was. Bulls has a top 3 D in 88 and dropped out of the top 10 without Oak the next season SMH. This is despite having the exact same core and with them getting more experience they shouldve been better. But back then MJ was a boxscore fiending for steals and blocks, gambling his team out of position on defense

Bulls led league in defensive rebounding in 88 by far (gap between them and 2nd best rebounding team was as big as 2nd and 17th best rebounding team). Oak was best rebounder in NBA leg OREB and DREB!!! WOW. And Oak was one of the best post defenders, shut the paint down and played great team D

Oak shouldnt have been DPOY either but MJ winnin was a joke

Hakeem
Pat
Eaton

ARE EASILY top 3 and far ahead of anyone else in 88. If u disagree #ydksab
Hakeem was flat out robbed that was one of the best defensive years of his career and u tellin me Michael Jeff was a better defender than a top 3-5 defender ever in one his best defensive seasons? :roll: :roll: http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/camby.png

Laimbeer
Rodman
were better on D too and Oak as well.

MJ wasnt the defensive menace hed be later on yet. He couldnt guard the elite scorers in 88, Clyde lit him up among otters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3a-fEIRJ-k

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif

[lilteapot]

:biggums: :biggums:

who u think Pat is........SMH:biggums:
Pat Patterson

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Pat Patterson

http://www.imisstheoldschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ewing-1986-rookie.jpg

[lilteapot]

http://www.imisstheoldschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ewing-1986-rookie.jpg

But that's Charles Barkley

[feyki]

Pat Patterson

Patrick Petterson .

[3ball]

Oakley had a very good defensive impact.

His departure to NY was the reason the Bulls lost 3 MORE games in 1989, even though Pip and Grant became starters that year.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Oakley had a very good defensive impact.

His departure to NY was the reason the Bulls lost 3 MORE games in 1989, even though Pip and Grant became starters that year.
:biggums: :biggums:
u actually givin Oak props:biggums:

[3ball]

:biggums: :biggums:
u actually givin Oak props:biggums:


Don't get it twisted - Jordan still had the greater defensive impact because there's an important concept to consider when comparing the defensive impact of guards to big men that most people aren't aware of:

Teams realize no ADVANTAGE from a center's defensive impact anytime it's matched or exceeded by the opposing team's center - this goes for all positions.

Accordingly, Oakley provided less defensive impact to his team than Jordan in 1988, since his impact was cancelled out by his opposing matchup more than Jordan's was - Jordan's defensive impact ranked higher among SG's (#1) than Oakley ranked among PF's (top 10), so Jordan maintained a bigger defensive impact advantage over his matchup, than Oakley had over his.

To illustrate, look at the Ray Allen vs. Jordan defensive box score comparison (-1.3 to Jordan's 1.1) and then look at Ray's teammate, center Ervin Johnson vs. Shaq (2.6 to Shaq's 1.6).. Now who provided the greater defensive impact to their team?????.. Obviously, it was Jordan - again, Shaq's team realizes no ADVANTAGE from his defensive impact anytime it's matched or exceeded by the opposing team's center.

[Poetry]

MJ, Pip, and Hakeem are the only players to ever record 200 steals and 100 blocks in a single season. It's only been done 4 times ever (since stats were recorded).

MJ did it twice. :pimp:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Don't get it twisted - Jordan still had the greater defensive impact because there's an important concept to consider when comparing the defensive impact of guards to big men that most people aren't aware of:

Teams realize no ADVANTAGE from a center's defensive impact anytime it's matched or exceeded by the opposing team's center - this goes for all positions.

Accordingly, Oakley provided less defensive impact to his team than Jordan in 1988, since his impact was cancelled out by his opposing matchup more than Jordan's was - Jordan's defensive impact ranked higher among SG's (#1) than Oakley ranked among PF's (top 10), so Jordan maintained a bigger defensive impact advantage over his matchup, than Oakley had over his.

To illustrate, look at the Ray Allen vs. Jordan defensive box score comparison (-1.3 to Jordan's 1.1) and then look at Ray's teammate, center Ervin Johnson vs. Shaq (2.6 to Shaq's 1.6).. Now who provided the greater defensive impact to their team?????.. Obviously, it was Jordan - again, Shaq's team realizes no ADVANTAGE from his defensive impact anytime it's matched or exceeded by the opposing team's center.

Sounds like excuses and poor reasoning to me

still dont explain how they dropped off from top 3 to not even top 10 at all on D without Oak

and im glad we all agree Hakeem, Pat, Mark>>> MJ on defense in 88

[3ball]

Sounds like excuses and poor reasoning to me


Actually, it's pretty good reasoning..

Btw, I used the defensive boxscore stat to measure defensive impact because the verbage "defensive box score" makes it easy to conceptualize the advantage in defensive impact that a player can provide.. But ANY stat/methodology could be used to measure defensive impact - the main point is that the nba's TOP defenders at their position (Jordan, Rodman) provided their teams with a bigger advantage in defensive impact over their matchup, then lesser defenders Shaq or Oakley provided over theirs.





still dont explain how they dropped off from top 3 to not even top 10 at all on D without Oak


blame Pippen and Horace Grant - they were the ones that became starters in 1989 and replaced Oak

also, Jordan played point guard for 24 games in 1989 - I'm guessing his defensive impact was less at PG than at SG, where he can roam more and doesn't have to guard the ballhandler as much.





and im glad we all agree Hakeem, Pat, Mark>>> MJ on defense in 88


I'd agree in any other year... But not 1988, which was easily Jordan's best defensive season.

In that season, Jordan held a LARGER advantage over other SG's than Hakeem and company held over other centers.

But normally, I'd agree that Hakeem and company have greater defensive impact (a larger advantage over their opposing matchup than Jordan had over his).

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I'd agree in any other year... But not 1988, which was easily Jordan's best defensive season.

In that season, Jordan held a LARGER advantage over other SG's than Hakeem and company held over other centers.

But normally, I'd agree that Hakeem and company have greater defensive impact (a larger advantage over their opposing matchup than Jordan had over his).

88 wasnt MJs best defensive year. He was easily better from 90-92. MJ and Phil himself would tell u the same. And i know u know this too and are only defending 88 b/c u know he didnt deserve DPOY:oldlol: :oldlol:

[G-train]

Michael Jordan was unbelievable defensively that season.
He was everywhere.

He had 37 votes, and second was Eaton with 9. No one had seen a guard play like that defensively. He was a deserving winner.

[bballnoob1192]

Who is pat ?
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

yall telling me this ***** on a bball forum and don't know who the **** "pat" is?

[sportjames23]

Michael Jordan was unbelievable defensively that season.
He was everywhere.

He had 37 votes, and second was Eaton with 9. No one had seen a guard play like that defensively. He was a deserving winner.

Aye. 👍