So... Bulls without MJ = 7 games second round... Warriors without Curry = WCF

[Im Still Ballin]

Cleveland without Lebron

2nd Worst record in the league

Miami without Lebron

Can't even make the playoffs despite replacing him with Whiteside, Dragic, Deng and a new youthful bench

[Da_Realist]

The teams GS play are not complete teams and usually only have one good-to-great offensive weapon and no real dependable team offense. They're one trick ponies. GS, even without Curry, is still a complete team with multiple offensive weapons, chemistry, post up game, clutch shooting and defense, as were the 94 Bulls. Doesn't mean Curry isn't the run away best player in the league.

[Haymaker]

Cleveland without Lebron

2nd Worst record in the league

Miami without Lebron

Can't even make the playoffs despite replacing him with Whiteside, Dragic, Deng and a new youthful bench

Bulls lost to a Knicks team that advanced to the finals. I doubt the Blazers would do the same.

[Bigsmoke]

The warriors playing some weak ass teams in the post season thanx to curry and injuries.

[julizaver]

Miami without Lebron

Can't even make the playoffs despite replacing him with Whiteside, Dragic, Deng and a new youthful bench

If Wade and Bosh were healthy HEAT could have made the playoffs last year.

[r15mohd]

If Wade and Bosh were healthy HEAT could have made the playoffs last year.


there was really no excuse other than coaching failure for Miami not to make the playoffs last year - we had a good start to the season, Wade wasn't completely gone like Bosh was with his injury and we did have a few good role players that would allow us to make the 8th spot for the very least.

sure the absence of Lebron was a huge hit, but to see teams like the Bucks and the Nets get in - and even the Pacers without PG13 almost got the 8th spot - was horrendous :facepalm

[Steven Kerry]

Cleveland without Lebron

2nd Worst record in the league

Miami without Lebron

Can't even make the playoffs despite replacing him with Whiteside, Dragic, Deng and a new youthful bench
Based on?

[Im Still Ballin]

When he left Cleveland

[Tarik One]

Warriors without Curry vs 1996 Knicks, 1997 Heat?

[riseagainst]

OP HATES context, acting like everything is in a vacuum.

And Miami without Lebron: 2nd round because Wade is ballin' now. He's Still Ballin (without Lebron).

[Steven Kerry]

When he left Cleveland
Cavs were essentially dismantled, so it would be more accurate to compare them to the dismantled Bulls after Jordan's 2nd retirement. Bulls were garbage for half a decade before getting themselves back to .500. Meanwhile, LeBron leaves the Heat and they are about to go to the ECF without one of the additional all-stars that LeBron had on that team.

[WorldWarriors]

Cleveland without Lebron

2nd Worst record in the league

Miami without Lebron

Can't even make the playoffs despite replacing him with Whiteside, Dragic, Deng and a new youthful bench
That's why players shouldn't try to be the gm. Warriors have competent ownership and management. Not their problem the Cavs don't.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cavs were essentially dismantled, so it would be more accurate to compare them to the dismantled Bulls after Jordan's 2nd retirement. Bulls were garbage for half a decade before getting themselves back to .500. Meanwhile, LeBron leaves the Heat and they are about to go to the ECF without one of the additional all-stars that LeBron had on that team.
+ Whiteside Deng Joe Johnson Dragic + Better bench

Lmao

[r15mohd]

Cavs were essentially dismantled, so it would be more accurate to compare them to the dismantled Bulls after Jordan's 2nd retirement. Bulls were garbage for half a decade before getting themselves back to .500. Meanwhile, LeBron leaves the Heat and they are about to go to the ECF without one of the additional all-stars that LeBron had on that team.

let's not act like the Heat didn't add support for losing Lebron with Deng coming in (not a great replacement but certainly not a bad one), and also being fortunate in the case of Bosh's injury with the emergence of Whiteside, and the draft pick ups of Winslow and Richardson to help propel the team to the ECF along with the trade last year for Dragic :rolleyes: :facepalm

[Real14]

Jordan is obviously better.

[ClipperRevival]

Nice try OP but you forgot this important thing called CONTEXT.

You see, when MJ and Curry left their respective teams, both teams were DEFENDING champs. LeBron, on the other hand, was dismantled by another team in the 2014 finals before leaving. So the team he left weren't defending champs nor did they have the championship swagger, chemistry or talent of a current champion.

And let's not forget the fact that Bosh only played 44 games, Dragic 26 games, Wade 62 games and Whiteside 48 games. Deng and Chalmers were the only regulars to play 70+ games in 2014 - 2015.

But yeah, let's just pretend MJ's and Curry's (real alpha dog killers) situations were identical to Bron's.

[ClipperRevival]

Another important thing to consider is the fact that Pip/Grant were dead in their primes when MJ retired. And it wasn't the same team from 1992-93. The Bulls added Kukoc, Kerr and Longley.

Ditto for the Warriors. Most of their players are in their primes.

The same can't be said for the Heat. Wade was way past his peak days. Same for Bosh. Same for Deng.

[Bankaii]

The hypocrisy is real.

People call the East the D-league but when a team of Wade, Bosh, Deng, Whiteside, Dragic, etc can't make the playoffs excuses are brought up.
These same excuses that weren't given to Lebron when Wade was dealing with injuries throughout the heat run.

And context is should be given in this situation, but when Lebron loses a Finals with his 2nd and 3rd best players out it's "2/6" with no context whatsoever.

[DonDadda59]

Nice try OP but you forgot this important thing called CONTEXT.

What is this "Context" you speak of.

Wade/Heat without Bron = Championship.

http://www.fulcrumgallery.com/product-images/P228148-10/dwyane-wade-with-mvp-and-2006-finals-trophies-37.jpg

Hell a 77 year old broken down Wade led the Heat to the 2nd and possibly 3rd round without Bron and Bosh.

Wade>>>>Bron. :bowdown:

[ClipperRevival]

And yes, both MJ and Curry are the difference between a 50-55 win team and a dynastic, GOAT level type team. It's a lot easier to win 50-55 games and be a perennial 2nd round exit team versus a truly elite team that actually wins titles. Every year, there are about 8-12 teams that win 50+ games. That's not saying THAT much. It's about getting over the top and actually winning it all.

[Papaya Petee]

The hypocrisy is real.

People call the East the D-league but when a team of Wade, Bosh, Deng, Whiteside, Dragic, etc can't make the playoffs excuses are brought up.
These same excuses that weren't given to Lebron when Wade was dealing with injuries throughout the heat run.

And context is should be given in this situation, but when Lebron loses a Finals with his 2nd and 3rd best players out it's "2/6" with no context whatsoever.
Bosh never played a second with Dragic, missed half the season
Dragic came post ASG never had a camp to play with these guys
Whiteside wasn't even in the rotation really until post ASG and suffered injuries missed games
Wade only played 62 games
Only Mario Chalmers played over 70 games

How about learning about the situation more instead of talking out of your ass?

[Bankaii]

Bosh never played a second with Dragic, missed half the season
Dragic came post ASG never had a camp to play with these guys
Whiteside wasn't even in the rotation really until post ASG and suffered injuries missed games
Wade only played 62 games
Only Mario Chalmers played over 70 games

How about learning about the situation more instead of talking out of your ass?
A team with 38 wins made the playoffs.
The Heat couldn't win 38 games?
A Pacers team without Paul George the entire season and led by George Hill had a better record than them:roll:
How about you quit being a fanboy and accept that the team was just shit that season.

[tpols]

The hypocrisy is real.

People call the East the D-league but when a team of Wade, Bosh, Deng, Whiteside, Dragic, etc can't make the playoffs excuses are brought up.
These same excuses that weren't given to Lebron when Wade was dealing with injuries throughout the heat run.

And context is should be given in this situation, but when Lebron loses a Finals with his 2nd and 3rd best players out it's "2/6" with no context whatsoever.

theres no hypocrisy.. when healthy, like, you know, how they were this year, that Heat core is en route to ECFs. Only to you is most those guys missing half the year to injury, and w/ some like goran not even having been on the team for half the year labeled "excuses" Its more like reality.


Excuses is you lieing about Lebron being hurt in last years Finals :oldlol:

[t-rex]

Bulls with prime MJ (1993) 57-25
Bulls without prime MJ (1994) 55-27


Jordan was worth 2 extra games over the course of a season in the prime of his career.


Warriors with prime Curry (2016) 73-9
Warriors without prime Curry.... Does anyone really think this team would be 71-11 without Curry for 82 games?


MJ's supporting cast to this day is one of the most underrated group of players in sports history.

[ClipperRevival]

Bulls with prime MJ (1993) 57-25
Bulls without prime MJ (1994) 55-27


Jordan was worth 2 extra games over the course of a season in the prime of his career.


Warriors with prime Curry (2016) 73-9
Warriors without prime Curry.... Does anyone really think this team would be 71-11 without Curry for 82 games?


MJ's supporting cast to this day is one of the most underrated group of players in sports history.

Nice try with the box score analysis.

The fact is, the level of competition in the early 90's was fierce and after coming off a 2 peat AND having played in the summer Olympics, MJ and Pip took it a tad easy in the 1992-93 regular season. Maybe they relied on the proverbial "switch" but anytime a team is coming off a 2 peat, it's hard to maintain that laser focus. For example, the 2nd 3 peat Bulls won 72, 69 and 62 games. So if you are going to focus strictly on the 2 win difference, all power to ya.

The bottom line is, come playoff time, the Bulls got it done and MJ was masterful. That's what it's about. Not winning 50+ games in the regular season. A lot of decent teams can do that. But a team that can actually win it all are a couple of levels above those 50 win teams.

[Dray n Klay]

Nice try with the box score analysis.

The fact is, the level of competition in the early 90's was fierce and after coming off a 2 peat AND having played in the summer Olympics, MJ and Pip took it a tad easy in the 1992-93 regular season. Maybe they relied on the proverbial "switch" but anytime a team is coming off a 2 peat, it's hard to maintain that laser focus. For example, the 2nd 3 peat Bulls won 72, 69 and 62 games. So if you are going to focus strictly on the 2 win difference, all power to ya.

The bottom line is, come playoff time, the Bulls got it done and MJ was masterful. That's what it's about. Not winning 50+ games in the regular season. A lot of decent teams can do that. But a team that can actually win it all are a couple of levels above those 50 win teams.



LOL, LeBron has Far, far more impact that either Jordan and Curry.


There's never been a LeBron-led team that would make the playoffs without him



Meanwhile Jordans and Currys teams were legit contenders without them

[Inferno]

Breaking news: Warriors are the best team in the league :oldlol:

[bond10]

1994 - 55-27....1995, the Bulls went 47-35 with Horace Grant out. Wow, clearly Horace Grant was the REAL mvp. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Da_Realist]

Bulls with prime MJ (1993) 57-25
Bulls without prime MJ (1994) 55-27


Jordan was worth 2 extra games over the course of a season in the prime of his career.


Warriors with prime Curry (2016) 73-9
Warriors without prime Curry.... Does anyone really think this team would be 71-11 without Curry for 82 games?


MJ's supporting cast to this day is one of the most underrated group of players in sports history.

Horrible reasoning. Take MJ off the 72-10 Bulls. Do they win 70 without MJ?

No context. Bulls were coasting in the 93 season. They were bored and unfocused the year before in the playoffs (15-7 playoff record for a team that good is disappointing). They sleepwalked to 57 wins in 93, nursing injuries and resting for the playoffs.

[Nikola_]

Bulls with prime MJ (1993) 57-25
Bulls without prime MJ (1994) 55-27


Jordan was worth 2 extra games over the course of a season in the prime of his career.




1992 Bulls 67-15
1993 Bulls 57-25

I guess it was Chuck Newitt or Craig Hodges then who werent on the 93 team.

[Lebron23]

Curry needs to retire, and give the key to Klay Thompson.

[Dragonyeuw]

Bulls with prime MJ (1993) 57-25
Bulls without prime MJ (1994) 55-27


Jordan was worth 2 extra games over the course of a season in the prime of his career.


Warriors with prime Curry (2016) 73-9
Warriors without prime Curry.... Does anyone really think this team would be 71-11 without Curry for 82 games?


MJ's supporting cast to this day is one of the most underrated group of players in sports history.

So what does it mean when MJ led the 98 Bulls to 62 wins with Pip missing 38 games?

[knicksman]

Miami is going to the ecf too:confusedshrug:

[Bankaii]

theres no hypocrisy.. when healthy, like, you know, how they were this year, that Heat core is en route to ECFs. Only to you is most those guys missing half the year to injury, and w/ some like goran not even having been on the team for half the year labeled "excuses" Its more like reality.


Excuses is you lieing about Lebron being hurt in last years Finals :oldlol:
I lied yet I posted big name basketball sources that both supported what I said?

It's funny how you're one of the main idiots claiming how weak the East is but bring out all kinds of context when it's something that can downplay Lebron.

Paul George missed the entire season. George Hill missed half the season. David West only played 66 games. Their team was led by Solomon hill(averaged 2 points in 22 games), Rodney stuckey(wasn't even on the team the year before), and Roy Hibbert lol. That team had a better record than the Heat.
And even when Bosh and Wade both played together, they're record still wasn't positive. What's your next excuse?
Facts, a Kobetards biggest weakness

[Spurs m8]

OP you are a simple c*nt hahaha

Its like you can't think properly

[ClipperRevival]

So what does it mean when MJ led the 98 Bulls to 62 wins with Pip missing 38 games?

Great point. :applause:

[ClipperRevival]

LOL, LeBron has Far, far more impact that either Jordan and Curry.


There's never been a LeBron-led team that would make the playoffs without him



Meanwhile Jordans and Currys teams were legit contenders without them

I'm not here to bash LeBron. I can openly admit that he was one of the most impactful players ever, especially if you give him little to work with on bad teams. But I think his impact lessened as the stakes got higher playing against the truly elite teams where his brand of ball wasn't the most optimal. And I think that is where MJ/Curry trumps Bron. On team's with solid support casts, the latter two just fit into their systems better. Playing a lot of off ball and playing within the flow better. Bron's ball dominant ways works fine against lesser teams but against the truly elite teams, it wasn't the most optimal style of play.

[Steven Kerry]

+ Whiteside Deng Joe Johnson Dragic + Better bench

Lmao
Only Whiteside's impact is comparable to Bosh's, but Bosh was more versatile.